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RadiantMonolith
23rd Jan 13, 6:01 PM
I came across this IndieGoGo fundraiser today: http://www.indiegogo.com/save-homeworld?c=home

It seems like they are making an effort to obtain the Homeworld IP, but they need funding to acquire it. If they do not manage to acquire the Homeworld license, they will refund the money.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BcsXkj88-KQ#!


Fleet Command needs your help...

13 years ago, one of the most legendary sci-fi games was released, and the space RTS genre took a giant leap forward in innovation and fun. Yet, somehow, nearly 10 years later, fans are still waiting for the next installment of the Homeworld franchise. We here at teamPixel, LLC are tired of waiting for the next Homeworld game and would like to rally fans together to bring the franchise back. The THQ bankruptcy has given all of us a massive opportunity to put Homeworld back in the hands of gamers. teamPixel respectfully requests the support of Homeworld fans everywhere in helping us raise funds to acquire the Homeworld franchise from THQ during their bankruptcy. With the franchise in hand, we would be able to pursue 3 initiatives for reviving the series:


Homeworld on GoG.com and Steam. Easier access for old and new fans alike!
Homeworld Touch - A legendary game with a modernized interface!
Homeworld 3. Enough said.


I, and I assume many others, obviously don't agree with the third point, but the first objective is obviously noteworthy. Remember, if the Homeworld isn't picked up by any party, Homeworld might end up in IP limbo.


Our goals for the Homeworld franchise

We believe that the Homeworld franchise should be respected as one of the major landmarks in sci-fi and RTS gaming. To us, this means preserving access to the game for fans, both old and new. As it stands, a finite number of copies of the Homeworld games are in circulation, and obtaining a copy through legal means is becoming increasingly difficult, not to mention the hassles of playing a CD-based game when nearly every entertainment medium is deprecating discs. Gamers deserve a legitimate and user-friendly way of sharing the game with friends and accessing their own library of Homeworld games. Bringing Homeworld to Steam and GoG.com means the series will no longer be confined to scratched CDs and illegal fire sharing.

Our second goal bridges the past with the future. We would like to take the classic Homeworld game and re-implement it on mobile devices with touch controls. We've been testing several prototypes, and we've found the experience to be incredibly immersive and intuitive. It's almost like the games were meant to be played this way! It also goes to show how much technology has evolved to imagine that you could be playing your favorite classic on a pocket-sized device.


Money-Back Guarantee

What's in it for you? Well in addition to the rewards listed below, we're offering every contributor a refund guarantee: If we are unable to secure the rights to the Homeworld franchise during the THQ bankruptcy auction or through negotiations with the auction winner, we will refund your donation. teamPixel will cover any campaign fees so you don't have to. Without the Homeworld franchise, we have no way to act on our ideas, and so you deserve your money back.

http://teampixel.com/dropbox/homeworld/rewards-cropped.png

I apologize if this is a thread too much about Relic and its IPs, but I figured it would be of interest to many of you. If not, please lock and mock.

FriendlyFire
23rd Jan 13, 6:12 PM
My concerns would be:
A) Who the hell are these guys?
B) Why is it a flexible funding campaign (which means they take the money regardless of whether they achieve their goal or not)? 50k is low for even just getting the IP.

EDIT: Um, I'd also add, thinking about it some more:
C) Homeworld isn't really something that'd translate well to touch.
D) 750k for Homeworld 3 is lowballing it really, really badly.

Goobers
23rd Jan 13, 6:14 PM
Who is teamPixel?

So who...or what...is teamPixel? teamPixel is an interactive media company, and for over 8 years we have specialized in web design, web development, desktop software, and mobile applications. Yes, this means we are relatively new to the gaming industry (we actually have made games on commission for local companies), but entering the video game industry for ourselves was always a goal for the company. All of our work in other interactive mediums has been preparation for this. To us, everything is gameplay design and development, whether it be the menus in a program or the buttons on a website.

So... donate money so a web design firm so they can make their first real game ever with such a beloved and complex IP?

No.

RadiantMonolith
23rd Jan 13, 6:22 PM
I agree about the dumb touch thing and the HW3 wish, but that isn't the primary objective, nor was it the motivation for this thread.

The focus is on getting the Homeworld IP and releasing it digitally on GOG and wherever possible. That is the primary and only thing that's relevant in my opinion. Althpugh they might only be a webdesign firm, it seems like they are serious about the endeavour, as they have contacts with people in today's auction.

Crytek managed to get the Homefront IP for 500k and that game was released in 2011 and the minimum bid in today's auction was 500k, according to some investors. The next auction of THQ's legacy IPs will certainly be lower, I think.

Lautaro
23rd Jan 13, 6:46 PM
Mobile devices?... NO!

What I want for the Homeworld IP is to get picked by a big studio that really intends to do something big with it, the game deserves it.

ÜberJumper
23rd Jan 13, 6:55 PM
The "We Want Homeworld 3" facebook group was suggesting a crowdfunded campaign. I suggested it would not be worthwhile, and sadly I have to say the same for this (although I do very much like what he's showing with mobile devices, there's some need tech in touch devices that make games like Homeworld infinitely more playable).

Also, most of the code for these games is probably lost, so it'd be VERY expensive to re-launch them.

RadiantMonolith
23rd Jan 13, 7:01 PM
Couldn't the installer wrapped in an executable simply be distributed? GOG.com are known for modifying their distributions, so couldn't they ignore the lack of source code and just release their version of the Homeworld CD's?

Beibars
23rd Jan 13, 7:07 PM
Can't Relic Kickstart getting the Homerworld IP? surely it would send a message to SEGA that the series is popular.

If not, then I hope Rob Cunningham and his studio start a Kickstarter for it, I would definitely pay.

RadiantMonolith
23rd Jan 13, 7:24 PM
Also, UberJumper, the source code for Homeworld 1 is available online, so I don't understand your concern.

Regarding the Cataclysm code, I know a guy from the Cataclysm team that might help retrieving the game.

ÜberJumper
23rd Jan 13, 7:28 PM
Radiant:

Here's some of my follow up from FB.



Loren, including all the original non-packaged art/sound/texture assets in "source code". They might not have to rebuild all of it, but they'd certainly want to be able to remove or upgrade a lot of functionality (like WON). Those aren't trival changes. Could most certainly hack something together.

Also, was thinking of all the source code together. Relic has HW/HW2 source code (maybe?), but where's HW:C's? Maybe Chris knows?


Chris being Chris Stewart (castewar).

RadiantMonolith
23rd Jan 13, 7:35 PM
Thanks for the clarification. Much appreciated.


We don't know what any people at the current Relic thinks of retaining the IP? I could imagine most are just glad to keep their jobs, but it would be sad if the games never got released digitally for the coming generations to experience by letting the IP remain in a drawer somewhere.

ÜberJumper
23rd Jan 13, 7:37 PM
I'm digging on that. It sounds like (if RobMSantos' info is correct) THQ held onto the Homeworld IP and it was NOT transferred with Relic and is still to be auctioned off.

Open Blue
23rd Jan 13, 7:43 PM
I can't back this in good conscience. My only hope is that the IP is picked up by someone with the drive to do something good with it, but also with experience under their belt (I was kinda bummed when Zenimax was out-bid by sega).

Also, mobile platform? No thanks, I want a deep RTS, not a casual game to play on the bus to work.

Croaxleigh
23rd Jan 13, 7:43 PM
50k is low for even just getting the IP.
Very low. It's a tenth of what Crytek's paying for Homefront, and they already had a vested interest in it since they were developing it (i.e., they weren't just some guys from the Internet) and nobody else bid against them. THQ all but certainly paid more than that to buy the IP from Sierra. While the court's likely to let THQ sell off things at a reduced price to meet its debts, I doubt that things would go THAT low. Maybe if they hit some of their bigger stretch goals (though then they'd be short the cash to actually do the things mentioned in those goals.)

CommissarRezail
23rd Jan 13, 9:22 PM
As low as it is, that's a lot of RU's to be giving up to strangers.

Qwaar-Jet
23rd Jan 13, 11:42 PM
I'm not massively convinced by this, but they are right in that there is a major opportunity arising from everything that has happened. Worth keeping an eye on, but not sure about donating.

Vijil
24th Jan 13, 12:58 AM
Not convinced overall, but I actually think HW1 could work well on mobile. The interface should translate well enough.

Too poor to give money right now though...

Elukka
24th Jan 13, 1:09 AM
It's a bunch of random people asking money for a project where they have no idea how much it would cost or even if they could acquire the IP. It's flexible funding which means they get to run with whatever money they do get during the fundraiser, regardless of the project failing. I also don't see anything about them having the means to actually make a game. It's shifty as all hell.

boolybooly
24th Jan 13, 2:53 AM
"Hey does this pole still work?"

Beibars
24th Jan 13, 5:22 AM
Out of curiosity, if Rob Cunningham and his company were to announce a Kickstarter to obtain the IP and produce HW3, would you fund it?

RadiantMonolith
24th Jan 13, 5:31 AM
Out of curiosity, if Rob Cunningham and his company were to announce a Kickstarter to obtain the IP and produce HW3, would you fund it?

From last week's interview with Rob: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/01/17/interview-homeworld-dev-tells-all-about-new-rts-hardware/


Rob Cunningham: Any discussion about Homeworld 3 I have no position on, it’s completely THQ’s deal.

RPS: Will you have your eyes on the auction at the end of the month, for those rights?

Rob Cunningham: The correct answer there would be no comment. And basically no. I know there’s a huge Homeworld fanbase out there and people get very excited when we start talking about Homeworld. We definitely want to connect with those guys, but we’re very cautious about actually associating ourselves with the franchise as we don’t own it. We don’t want to complicate matters [for THQ] or upset those guys, they’ve got enough on their plate. We’re coming out with a completely different project. If you like Homeworld, you’ll probably like [Hardware], but this is not a Homeworld game and has nothing to do with Homeworld.

Open Blue
24th Jan 13, 5:45 AM
The old line "if you liked this, you'll probably like this too" has sold me many a decent game. While my dreams for that fabled third game may never come to fruition (almost sounds like I'm talking about valve now), I'm looking at Hardware with a vested interest. While I'd fund HW3 in a heart-beat, I'll trust Cunningham's new project will scratch that particular home world itch.

Beibars
24th Jan 13, 5:46 AM
So, our hope for the series is that someone buys the IP at the second auction, I just hope it lands in good hands.

Akranadas
24th Jan 13, 5:53 AM
Face it guys. Homeworld is dead.

Just because someone buys the IP doesn't mean a game will turn up. THQ sat on it for a good couple of years, before that who ever else owned it.

RadiantMonolith
24th Jan 13, 7:00 AM
The old line "if you liked this, you'll probably like this too" has sold me many a decent game. While my dreams for that fabled third game may never come to fruition (almost sounds like I'm talking about valve now), I'm looking at Hardware with a vested interest. While I'd fund HW3 in a heart-beat, I'll trust Cunningham's new project will scratch that particular home world itch.

Too bad it's a Facebook game. :(


Face it guys. Homeworld is dead.

Just because someone buys the IP doesn't mean a game will turn up. THQ sat on it for a good couple of years, before that who ever else owned it.

I don't care about a new game turning up. I care about the digital preservation of Homworld 1, 2, and Cataclysm.

Gorb
24th Jan 13, 7:05 AM
Releasing HW on Steam would be a lovely move, but I'm not sure how possible it would be.

Additionally, the fact that HARDWARE is apparently a Facebook game has no bearing on the game's quality. There is a negative stigma surrounding such games, and some of those games deserve that stigma, but that doesn't mean "Facebook game == bad game".

Vertrucio
24th Jan 13, 7:15 AM
Hardware is actually more than a facebook game. Considering that facebook gaming is seeing a decline now.

It's actually just using facebook's account management system first, and various ways it interacts to test other features.

The full game will likely be close to a normal game, although that depends on how they plan to monetize it.

ÜberJumper
24th Jan 13, 8:09 AM
Hardware's not a "facebook" game as Vertrucio indicates.

Lautaro
24th Jan 13, 8:59 AM
The only reason that I know of this forum is because one day in the past I googled "homeworld 3". I'm sorry but I don't care about new projects and I don't care about games for tablets or Facebook or whatever.

All this recent news about the IP make me sad.

Mokino
24th Jan 13, 9:13 AM
These guys have no idea what they're doing. I mean, the digital release of HW doesn't end with the IP itself. You need the source code and distribution rights for the music as well (such a thing is keeping some other games off of digital distribution and I bet the Yes song isn't included in the IP at least, forcing its removal from a DD copy.)

Mac_Bug
24th Jan 13, 9:57 AM
The cost of digging up homeworld related source code and assets and art plus hiring lawyers is likely to exceed 50k before we even get to talk about the IP itself.

Starblade
24th Jan 13, 10:27 AM
The full game will likely be close to a normal game, although that depends on how they plan to monetize it.

I don't have a Facebook account and I'm not going to make one so this is great news.

Nurizeko
24th Jan 13, 11:28 AM
Doesn't sound like a genuine viable effort.

RadiantMonolith
24th Jan 13, 12:18 PM
I agree about the murkiness of this project and the overwhelming challenges it faces. But regardless of the final conclusion to this project's endeavour, we'll know what happens to the Homeworld IP in the coming weeks after the legacy IP auction.


Additionally, the fact that HARDWARE is apparently a Facebook game has no bearing on the game's quality. There is a negative stigma surrounding such games, and some of those games deserve that stigma, but that doesn't mean "Facebook game == bad game".

I wasn't talking about quality. Talking about that the only means of accessing the game is through Facebook. It is an arbitrary hoop potential customers have to go through if they want to play a browser RTS.


Hardware is actually more than a facebook game. Considering that facebook gaming is seeing a decline now.

It's actually just using facebook's account management system first, and various ways it interacts to test other features.

The full game will likely be close to a normal game, although that depends on how they plan to monetize it.

Why use Facebook's account management system if it isn't necessary for the actual game? Or if Hardware is "more than a Facebook game"? Why stick to a declining platform that only serves as an extra hoop to go through in order to play the game? Obviously they can do what they want, but it simply isn't a very smart decision. If Blackbird had followed current market trends, they would notice that other platforms and free browser access would benefit their game much more than artificially walling it behind Facebook. Or are they planning to separate themselves from Facebook?


Hardware's not a "facebook" game as Vertrucio indicates.

If you have to use Facebook to play it, then yes, it is a "Facebook" game. I am not using the meaning of the word I think you think I am using.

FriendlyFire
24th Jan 13, 12:22 PM
If I'm not mistaken, Facebook shouldn't be required to play the final build, isn't it?

Also, Facebook, declining? Yeah, right. Not for a while more.

Gorb
24th Jan 13, 12:28 PM
RadiantMonolith, your obvious negative bias for Facebook is influencing your posts. Also, it has been stated that HARDWARE is not a Facebook game. I find it hard to believe you do not grasp what this means.

Mokino
24th Jan 13, 12:33 PM
Facebook is being used for beta distribution and feedback, but it's not actually part of the game.

RadiantMonolith
24th Jan 13, 1:29 PM
If FB won't be required in the final release, disregard my criticisms. Which is also why I said "If..." in my post, and "Or are they planning to separate themselves from Facebook?"...

@FriendlyFire: Decline of gaming activity on Facebook, not Facebook itself. Read: http://www.develop-online.net/news/38838/Facebook-games-giants-suffer-activity-decline

FriendlyFire
24th Jan 13, 1:56 PM
Given that those games are largely cow clicker-esque in nature, as opposed to HARDWARE's much more involved gameplay, one needs to ask whether the problem is the concept of Facebook games or the horrendous quality of the games in question.

RadiantMonolith
24th Jan 13, 2:11 PM
What does that have to do with the fact that Facebook's gaming activity is declining? I was stating that "in general gaming activity on Facebook is declining", not talking about the qualitative differences between Cow Clicker # 231 vs. Hardware.

EDIT: This is off-topic and is a conversation solely about clearing up misunderstandings. I'll just leave it be.

ÜberJumper
24th Jan 13, 2:37 PM
Radiant:

I want you to take a look at this page for a second. http://blackbirdinteractive.com/team/

Once you're looking at it, I want you to search for Relicnews.

Once you find Relicnews, look at the name who is associated with that entry.

That's me.

Now look at the rest of the people on that list. Do you recognize any of those names?

Mokino
24th Jan 13, 2:40 PM
Zynga's decline is the main reason behind Facebook's gaming decline. But the interesting thing is that Facebook game are getting better due to Zynga's waning influence.

ÜberJumper
24th Jan 13, 2:48 PM
Robot Rising is a great example of a game that's relatively high quality that just happens to be using facebook as it's user authentication system. Even some of the new Zynga "facebook" games are visually quite impressive.

Games are games are games, no matter the platform.

RadiantMonolith
24th Jan 13, 2:57 PM
Radiant:

I want you to take a look at this page for a second. http://blackbirdinteractive.com/team/

Once you're looking at it, I want you to search for Relicnews.

Once you find Relicnews, look at the name who is associated with that entry.

That's me.

Now look at the rest of the people on that list. Do you recognize any of those names?

I know who's involved, Uber, even you. I also posted the interview with Rob earlier. I don't see me what that has to do with my criticism of a scenario in which the game used Facebook as an artificial wall for access. But since Hardware supposedly isn't using FB after all despite the beta sign-up's indication of doing so, then my objections are irrelevant (and I don't see the need to jump on me like that :) ).

Carl
24th Jan 13, 3:32 PM
Dear god no, just seeing this makes me wnat to curl up in a corner and cry.

ÜberJumper
24th Jan 13, 3:48 PM
Radiant:

When I post, I try not to be misleading. If I said "it's not a facebook game" then you can trust me on that and you don't need to refute what I'm saying. :-)

RadiantMonolith
24th Jan 13, 4:05 PM
@Uber
Haha, yeah, I get what you're saying. It seems like I am not communicating clearly then, as I wasn't trying to refute anything. In any way, I've been personally anticipating Hardware since the reveal of the Blackbird Interactive website some years back, so I'm certainly looking forward to trying it out some day. It feels like ages since then.

In regards to this IndieGoGo project in this thread, I think it's much more likely that another publisher or SEGA itself will snatch up the IP, since there has been so much noise around various gaming websites, Twitter, and gaming forums about Homeworld and this attempt to claim the IP. It shows there's still interest in the IP in some way or another, so it could certainly motivate any potential buyer to make a bid for the IP (a bid much larger than the relatively small 50k from this project).

Fenra
24th Jan 13, 6:57 PM
I doubt much will come of 50k for buying the aging IP. I think mobile versions of graphically updated Homeworld models would be awesome though. If not a little bit tacky. I want a Homeworld 3, but I don't like these guys credentials enough to pay them to build it. I would work for them tho :)

Chimas
24th Jan 13, 8:10 PM
I drafted an approach for a fan based endeavor. Let me think "outloud" for a while in the next lines.

To "generate primary" objectives we would have to develop an innitiave that could prevent the current situation to ever happen again.
So, in case of putting hands in this Intellectual Property, the effort would have to focus in 2 types of threats: 1) Wrong Hands and 2) Limbo

1) There wouldn't have a funding to develop anything. Actually the funding would serve primarily to lawyer up. Not just giving money, the fans would have also to apply as portfolio analysts and the IP wouldn't be sold as a whole but be licensed for the next edition only, so the fans could keep the IP and the buyer would get a license for the next version of the franchise only and all this should be put in a contract. This way the development of the game could be made in a modular way. One studio develops the engine, some ships and abilities and others would develop expansion packs meaning more units, maps, backstory, missions, special effects, etc. The game would be developed by a mix of indie studios and known small studios under a corporate umbrella that apply and sign the contract.
These possibilities explained above are weak actually, but I had to explain it that way. Probably, a studio alone would make an offer, because the risk for them is high.

2) The contract would have to be able to withdraw and restitute the IP in some circumstances I can't imagine now due to the lack of experience. Some sort of dissolution of the enterprise if some aspects are not met. But essentially, a fan based rescue would have to be a heavy juridical approach.

And I created all that non-sense, because I was goin' to say nothing and suddenly I remembered a sequel of a movie, "Behind Enemy Lines 2", one of the most pathetic DVD I've watched in my life !
See, I had bad influence, got scared and couldn't help myself.

Hell Diguner
26th Jan 13, 1:17 AM
I really don't know what to think. On the one hand, if nobody buys the IP, we can pretty well assume the franchise is kaput. That makes me want to support the IndieGoGo project simply to let the IP survive long enough so a larger company might buy up the IP if these guys flop, and to hope they re-release the games digitally, and to hope a miracle happens and they actually produce a highly successful Homeworld 3.

On the other hand I can hardly trust them. I've seen higher profile companies take the money and run, and the reaction so far in this thread has been negative towards supporting the IndieGoGo project. Not to mention the thread was derailed and half these posts belong elsewhere.

Norsehound
26th Jan 13, 1:53 AM
If it lies dormant then it means it's ripe for the taking when Blackbird has the time and the money after Hardware.

MadCatChiken
26th Jan 13, 4:56 AM
I think the best course of action and first priority of acquiring the IP would be to try get digital distribution, while I can understand this would be difficult but without easy access to the original games there would no point investing in a new game with the HW IP. People would need to be able to easily access the original 3 games first to help introduce people to game and make some sort of profit to help any investment in a new game.

Touch screen based game is a bad idea from the get go, I can't imagine RTS games working well at all on a touch screen. The gameplay mechanics are too complicated for the lack of control on a touch screen. It's definitely going to cost more than 50k and I don't like the idea of a web design firm acquiring the IP.

Gorb
26th Jan 13, 5:55 AM
If it lies dormant then it means it's ripe for the taking when Blackbird has the time and the money after Hardware.
There's still the odd HW developer at Relic, I believe.

Though it is getting irritating seeing you go on about everyone sucking at using the IP barring Rob C and co.

Chimas
26th Jan 13, 6:18 AM
I imagine that the timing of this auction for the guys@BBI is extremely inconvenient.
They are focused in releasing a new game with all risks involved and suddenly appears this siren song.
"Down" here we use to say: never exchange something certain for something uncertain ...

nadarko
26th Jan 13, 8:56 AM
If they are able to get homeworld, and the be able to get steam to carry it, and if the number of people that download it is a huge number, I can safely predict that there will be a homeworld 3

Also, this would be a good way to measure the fanbase that homeworld has left.

Croaxleigh
26th Jan 13, 10:26 AM
It won't necessarily be an accurate measurement, though (assuming you're talking about this campaign being the measurement.) You'll have the Homeworld fans who won't give any money because they can't afford it/don't find out about it/don't have a credit card/etc., the fans who won't give any money because they don't trust the campaign or think the goals it has are unrealistic, and the fans who won't give because they'd rather leave Homeworld as it is than see it follow the path that this group is offering.

nadarko
26th Jan 13, 11:18 AM
Sorry, I ment once homeworld is put on steam is when we would measure it.

RadiantMonolith
27th Jan 13, 1:35 PM
Thief and Tomb Raider have gained a lot of traction in terms of IP recognition and exposure thanks to their Steam and GOG releases.

Irika
27th Jan 13, 2:44 PM
My stern advice to all Homeworld universe fans is the following: Do not get your hopes up until a new owner for the IP is disclosed after its purchase. Until then all these ideas will do what they have done for us for the last near decade: Get our hopes up and let them crash back down to Earth with full force.

Star
27th Jan 13, 4:09 PM
Their updates try to deal with some of the concerns: http://www.indiegogo.com/save-homeworld?c=comments
It still doesn't prove they won't run away with everything they can get at the end of the auction.

I'm backing it up simply because the small chance of an indie team acquiring the IP with the clear intention of working on it immediately is still better than the alternatives (IP oblivion, 10 more years of limbo, corporate abuse to milk the fans quickly and cheaply.)

Fenra
27th Jan 13, 10:34 PM
I'm kinda shocked that no other Indie studios have come out and said "hey, we're gonna buy this". This makes me sad :(

FriendlyFire
27th Jan 13, 11:16 PM
If I were an indie dev, I'd be scared shitless of trying to grab the IP. The shoes to fill are larger than life at this point, and I doubt even the most well-intentioned indie group would be able to please the fanbase.

Norsehound
28th Jan 13, 10:06 PM
Do you really blame me for being cynical with the Homeworld IP rights when Barking Dog missed everything I found exceptional about the universe in their expansion?

I want the Homeworld rights to go someplace where it'll be respected, not exploited.

And I know I could be wrong and a new studio might do something wonderful with Homeworld, but I'm not aware of precedents of anything similar. Star Control 3 was ill received by the SC fanbase when Legend Entertainment took over from Toys For Bob.

It'll be interesting to see who (if anyone) picks up the HW license. It's so niche that hardly anyone's heard of it nowadays. And that obscurity is part of the reason why I'm wary of what will become of it.

Gorb
29th Jan 13, 2:21 AM
The thing is there are plenty of people that enjoyed HW2. As invested as you are in HW, whatever opinions you draw are simply your own observations are not a factual statement of quality.

Irika
29th Jan 13, 2:30 AM
Norse... Barking Dog may have missed the mark in your opinion but my opinion is Cataclysm overall is still a better game than Homeworld 2, you may say that the Relic who made Homeworld 1 wasn't the same as the one who made Homeworld 2 but from my point of view Homeworld 1 was a fluke of circumstances, a divine spark that found kindling and as such to claim Homeworld 3 should be made by no one other than the ones who made Homeworld 1 because they would treat it the best is an assertion I find quite amusing, do not get me wrong I am more than sure they would turn out a game worthy of the name but I can't help but think we'd also get something akin to Starcraft 2 (same game, better graphics, evolved story) which isn't bad but isn't good either. From my point of view if the Homeworld IP is to go to someone let it go to someone who respects the universe of the IP while also not being afraid to polish the games they produce in that universe ( Sega/Creative Assembly-Relic would be your best bet in RTS/TBS terms, Kerberos a rather distant second though I doubt they have the money for it after the debacle of SOTS 2 and Firaxis would be a distant third, Blackbird while having a set of very good, talented and passionate individuals will not have a game out within the next 4-5 years and you'd be pushing it severely considering they A) likely do not have the funds to purchase the IP B) even if A) is proven false they still will need a few million USD to ship a game with graphical fidelity better than Homeworld 2 while still allowing fully 3D environments).

Ammon Ra
29th Jan 13, 3:43 AM
making a game have better graphical fidelity than hw2 at release date isn't actually that difficult. Modders have managed to get normal maps into the game (albeit jumping through several hoops) despite the engine not properly supporting normal maps and various other shader types. graphical fidelity isn't really an issue, but rather user interface and accessibility to people who do not have the good fortune of having a strong 3D visualization capability.


throwing hw1, cata, and hw2 on gog.com, steam, and maybe desura would probably generate a good profit for the investment costs of making them digitally distributable friendly.

Irika
29th Jan 13, 4:25 AM
Ammon that is assuming they were to use the HW2 engine to begin with which I'd rather doubt with better options being so readily available and it isn't difficult, but it is expensive and time consuming (either licensing a existing engine or creating your own propriety engine and in either case allot of work has to go into it) to get there and that's just the engine, cinematics require a different software to get even higher fidelity than possible using the game engine to do the pre-rendered scenes ( and again may or may not incur additional expenses on the team's budget). I'd venture a wild guess and say that just acquiring the tools required to create the game (or creating them from scratch) will put a 1-2 mil USD dent in the game budget for a visually appealing strategy game and after that you get into the actual cost of taking the game from (ideally) tech demo or (realistically) concept document (containing the art/aesthetics side as well as the gameplay/mechanics side) which if you want a worthy successor to Homeworld 1 will set you back a couple of more million USD at least and quite a few years of development time.

Now if they were to just reuse the HW2 engine while expanding its capabilities and licence a pre-rendering software for the cinematics you're still looking at the latter part of the equation and to be perfectly blunt not allot of publishers will take even that risk with an unknown quantity such as Homeworld.

Chimas
29th Jan 13, 4:42 AM
Blackbird while having a set of very good, talented and passionate individuals will not have a game out within the next 4-5 years

Irika,
You meant "WOULD NOT" instead of "WILL NOT" right? Or it is not "YEARS", it is "MONTHS" (because BBI is releasing Hardware in March)?

Irika
29th Jan 13, 5:52 AM
Chimas I was strictly referring to the situation in which they acquired the Homeworld IP and set about working on Homeworld 3.

RadiantMonolith
29th Jan 13, 6:12 AM
A new interview with the Robert Santos guy has emerged (http://venturebeat.com/2013/01/28/why-developer-teampixel-is-making-a-bid-for-the-homeworld-series-interview/)


GamesBeat: Our understanding is that teamPixel wanted to buy Homeworld, but you had to wait because THQ will sell it in a separate process. Is that right?

Rob Santos: This is correct. We tried getting the bidder qualification process started a few weeks before the Jan. 22 date for the first auction. We jumped through a few contacts in the associated law and banking firms, and when it became apparent none of our interest was in the larger properties or studios, we were told to sit tight for further information regarding THQ’s legacy assets. This furthered our desire for a SaveHomeworld.com campaign because it became apparent at this point that Relic would not be keeping the Homeworld IP, at least according to the contacts we spoke to. For weeks, we sat waiting and hoping the information was wrong and that Homeworld did stay with Relic, but when word leaked that legacy IPs were still being held with THQ, we launched our campaign hoping to provide an indie-solution to the 10 year wait for more Homeworld.


GamesBeat: You have a goal of $50,000. Will this likely be your maximum bid?

Santos: We’re trying to position ourselves as a messenger through which fans can collectively express their desire for future Homeworld games. I have to state it this way because the SaveHomeworld.com cause can’t be quantified purely through dollar amounts. We’re trying to be very sensitive to the deeper intentions of our contributors. Most fans that donate to us send their best wishes to our indie studio but also state they wish Relic were involved. With this in mind, if we arrive at the auction and find ourselves bidding against a Relic representative, it’s likely we’d withdraw through whatever legal means available during auction proceedings. So far, that’s the feeling I’m getting from our contributors about what they want.


GamesBeat: Is this Indiegogo campaign more about raising awareness for the game than it is about winning the property? Could you be getting a bid in with hope that a larger developer raises it and scoops up the IP?

Santos: In my opinion, there’s definitely a “David vs. Goliath” feeling about the whole campaign. Most rational people will probably think it’s ridiculous to even try, and they are probably right, but we push forward because we really believe fans deserve a chance to fight alongside each other for the future of this franchise. With these in mind, I believe the campaign is half awareness of the 10-year wait fans have endured and half an offering to have an indie studio helm the franchise. In the end, we’re fans just like everyone else, so not a day goes by where we don’t look toward Relic or Blackbird Interactive wondering if they’ll step in. We’re not adamant that the next Homeworld be made by teamPixel. Rather, we’re dedicated to promoting a future for the franchise, and releasing our own space RTS somewhere along the way.

Yankov
29th Jan 13, 12:24 PM
we'll take your 50k to run an ad campaign. cheers. XD

datlizardshuman
29th Jan 13, 12:52 PM
To be honest in my humblest opinion, this is the best time to have someone invest and reintroduce homeworld. Noticing how much rts games are being accepted. I would believe in all my guts that if you would to introduce homeworld on steam, you will need to keep everything that the original has offered. The only thing I would change if i had the rights for homeworld is that the graphic engine would be reworked and have hw and hw2 merge together polished. this will give all the new comers and rts gamers alike to understand how homeworld revolutionized the basic concept of a real time strategy. If revolutionized is an over stated word then i would lean more towards an unforgettable story that captured my heart which opened me up to rts games.

Personally, I would be a happy camper if BBI had a hold of homeworld. No one can do it better than the original people that build and designed homeworld. Only they have the key to unlock the desires of many and that desire my friend is to have another installment of one of the greatest rts game ever made in my life time.

Timmaigh!
30th Jan 13, 12:55 PM
@ Norsehound> What was wrong with Cataclysm in your opinion? I admit to play only about 5 or 6 missions of the campaign and never finished it, unlike both original game and HW2. Something felt odd with it, i cant say what exactly, but even though it still had those nice black and white video-sequences, Campbell Lane and other stuff, it was not the same. I dont know, maybe it was the Beast related story, what did not catch my heart that much, or maybe it was about the small changes in the graphics style, when i care, i can be pretty picky and opinionated about how things look...

Anyway, i would be interested in your opinion. Additionally, i would love the HW license to stay with Relic (under condition they actually plan to use it in the near future) or possibly even better, go to BBI. People keep mentioning Creative Assembly, Kerberos or Firaxis as well, i would add/prefer Ironclad. I really like their Sins of a Solar Empire, actually Rebellion is with Homeworld and Conquest Frontier Wars probably my fav RTS game. And Sins has something, what i always wanted from HW, that 4X element. Where you colonize planets, build fleet starbases and fleets and go on bombing enemy homeworlds from the orbit. I mean, HW was fine for campaign, as it was, but multiplayer was basically tactical game. I´d definitely like to see more of a grand strategy, if HW3 was ever about to be developed, so Ironclad would be perhaps the best bet with their experience.

Irika
30th Jan 13, 4:42 PM
If Homeworld 3 is like SoSE I will drop the universe like a hot potato and walk away. SoSE is a rubbish game from my point of view as are all 4x RTS games.
My reason? The 4x genre has always been dear to me in its turn based form because it plays out much like a grander way more elaborate strategic wargame, you take, you hold, you feign retreats, it can be oh so beautiful and relaxing.... and then you have the 4x RTS games.... which take everything good about their TBS cousins and turn it into a negative by not giving you enough time to think on such a grand scale effectively ( I got for maximum map sizes in all strategy games and play for the long game), if I want to get frustrated by so many variables bombarding me in real time every second of gameplay I'll kamikazi into a FFA 8 player game of Starcraft 2.
Also an objective reason: 4x RTS does not mesh well with storytelling at all, best I can think of is Hegemonia Legions of Iron back in the day... and even that had a story which felt tacked on and even more infuriating at times for its unexpected curb balls which sometimes resulted in a restarted game.

Nanaki
30th Jan 13, 8:19 PM
@ Norsehound> What was wrong with Cataclysm in your opinion? I admit to play only about 5 or 6 missions of the campaign and never finished it, unlike both original game and HW2. Something felt odd with it, i cant say what exactly, but even though it still had those nice black and white video-sequences, Campbell Lane and other stuff, it was not the same. I dont know, maybe it was the Beast related story, what did not catch my heart that much, or maybe it was about the small changes in the graphics style, when i care, i can be pretty picky and opinionated about how things look...


My main complaints about cataclysm:

The Beast - Oh great. Another neigh-invincible pure evil entity bent on the destruction of the universe. This shit is the hemmeroids of the sci-fi genre. Especially when they had very few original ships of their own, a vast majority of their ships were palette swaps of other race's ships.

The Somtaaw - On paper, I like the idea. In practice, I really disliked how they evolved to become ubermensch by the end of the game. Because of how utterly rediculous the Beast was, the Somtaaw had to evolve to be equally rediculous in order to compete.

Superweapons - I hate superweapons in an RTS. The Siege cannon/infection ray were just silly to play with, and encouraged some rather cheesy strats. Ever hyperspace on top of a mothership with a beast fleet and instagib it with infection ray spam?

Supply - Again, this just seems to encourage single-unit spam as opposed to Homeworld's unit limits that encouraged mixed forces.

Ship Wierdness - It seems like every ship in the game was designed with as much wierdness and quirkiness as possible. Am I the only person who would rather have had the Raider Corvettes instead of the stupid Mimics?


Still, Cataclysm had its good parts too, stuff that I would like to see in a future homeworld game:

Techs - I like the idea, including and especially the idea that upgrades change the sfx of a ship's weapons that gives you a good visual que that a ship is upgraded. The only shitty thing is that the sfx for the upgraded point defense cannons looked like ass.

Tab view - Being able to view a ship's stats and weapons just by selecting a unit and hitting tab. This is such a minor, yet brilliant future. Rather than flipping through the Homeworld manual to get stats on ships, you just hit tab and its right there in front of you.

Special Abilities - In homeworld 1, these were mainly just an afterthought. I liked the idea of certain ships having abilities that fits its role. One of my favorite examples is the Raider standard corvette, use mimic to sneak a group up to an enemy, than ambush and destroy them.

Allies in missions - In Homeworld 1/2, you were pretty much alone. Only on the final mission in both campaigns do you actually get assistance from friendly NPCs of any sort. Infact, despite me hating Cataclysm, my favorite mission in all of homeworld is the first Cataclysm mission.

Enkal
31st Jan 13, 2:49 AM
Cataclysm was my favorite in the series, mainly due to the gameplay. The story is the worst but the gameplay is the best. I trully hated the gameplay in HW2, I played through cataclysm and then wanted to start on HW2 about a year ago. After 3-4 missions of HW2 I just stopped playing (I think it was the large asteroid field map where you have to take out installations on three asteroids in the beginning).

Like Nanaki says above, the visual upgrades were really cool and you could feel how your mothership developed and transformed from a mining ship into a powerful warship.

Norsehound
31st Jan 13, 3:14 AM
I actually started on the series with Cataclysm. When I wanted to play the Taiidan I went out and got Homeworld GOTY edition. After getting immersed in Homeworld's presentation I looked at Cataclysm and started to appreciate it less and less. In spite of the complaints I've spoken about it in the past, Cataclysm is not a bad game. It just doesn't measure up to Homeworld's standards enough to feel like they're in the same setting. Not after I was exposed to Homeworld 1.

I think the biggest disappointment was that it felt like Barking Dog tried to make it more like mainstream science fiction. Homeworld was the first universe I encountered to break the "Shields and beams" tropes of Science fiction and it was kind of refreshing. The rule that beam weapons took up an entire ship was also a trope I never encountered before. Subtle things like this made the Homeworld universe really neat and different. When I looked at Cataclysm, I came to appreciate it less as a successor to Homeworld because it ignored these things and basically told another wiz-bang science fiction universe with the same ships. It introduced space zombies that were rationalized by space magic, which don't even add up to the in-universe logic established in Homeworld 1. I also feel it made unpleasant caricatures out of the Taiidan and the Bentusi compared to their Homeworld 1 portrayals. And what makes Somtaaw so special that they get goodies the main Hiigarans couldn't? Why are Somtaaw ships much more capable than ships that come from a better-funded and better stocked space navy?

In terms of gameplay I didn't like the fact that most of the Somtaaw fleet ran on special abilities to be effective. For the most part I built massed Acolytes and didn't expand the fleet until Destroyers and Dreadnoughts. "Corvettes" essentially didn't exist and I kept wondering where Somtaaw plasma bombs were. I found myself wanting to run the Taiidan ships I was reading about in the game manual and ultimately I went and got HW, which felt like a better balanced experience. I also really don't care for the voice work of some of the Somtaaw ships... the mimic still sounds like a guy with autism to me because I had one in my scout troop who sounded just like that. The Multibeam frigate also sounded gratingly enthusiastic ("FIRE FIRE FIRE!"). Besides, I thought Ion beams were too big to shoot out of multiple hardpoints?

Being locked in to playing these sides didn't help. You could either choose the exotic normal side or the beast fleshy evil side. I wanted a main fleet, which I couldn't experience.

Homeworld 2 has it's problems, but in terms of story it built off of something that we already saw and made it feel like an elaboration of the game rather than a separate add-on. The giant derelicts of Karos were very awe-inspiring and it was a good direction to take by expanding them to show us the progenitors. Makaan as an antagonist was also better served because instead of menace relying in space magic, he was a normal human being that threatened the players without needing any special tricks.

And that's kind of the problem when it comes to thinking about who could take up the IP and do it the most justice. The original creators had an idea and made it work in Homeworld. What I'm afraid of is another situation where a studio doesn't know how what they have works, make some shallow presumptions, and turn out something others will insist is canon regardless if it feels like a Homeworld game or not.

the only instance I can recall of another studio picking up and carrying on from another is 343 picking up from Bungie, but even then a significant number of the original creatives remained attached to it.

So yeah it'll be interesting to see who ends up with the Homeworld IP. I'm pessimistic about the chances of a quality game coming out of it, but I'm open to being wrong. I just wish the Homeworld IP got better than what it received... the concept to me feels as strong as Halo, Mass Effect, or any of the other IPs that got legs and ran into making novels and other kinds of mediums. Homeworld never got that in spite of being fresher than any other science fiction IP in the past two decades.

I want it to do well, but it won't if whoever gets it doesn't know how it's supposed to work.

And that's why I want BBI to have it, because then the original creatives can push it to where it's supposed to be.

Irika
31st Jan 13, 4:09 AM
Gameplay wise Cataclysm>Homeworld 1> Homeworld 2, sorry but Homeworld 2's gameplay is mostly down to counters which I hated, true Homeworld 1 and Cataclysm have the counter system somewhat too but it's a softer version of the HW2 one (example in Homeworld 1 5-6 Ion Cannon Frigates could take down a heavy cruiser with some loses/serious damage, in Homeworld 2 a Battlecruiser could easily rip apart half a dozen or more Ion Cannon Frigates without much issue for minimal damage done to it, I absolutely loath the capture system in HW2 and adore the salvage system in HW1 mostly because in HW2 it's just not as deep, in HW1 I remember one occasion during the campaign playing as Kushan where I wanted to capture a Taiidani Heavy Cruiser but it would chew apart any salvetts that got close so derpy me loaded the corvettes into a carrier and bum rushed the cruiser with carrier launching them right on top of the cruiser and capturing it quite easily and I hope that the main weapons on the Higaran and Vaygr battlecruisers die in a roaring fire as they had a tendency to fire them off even when dying and when you're playing the campaign and it's your Progenitor Dreadnought that dies due to said final volley... you tend to uninstall the game afterwards).

In terms of story... Homeworld 1 >> Cataclysm >>>> Homeworld 2, sorry but I find the story of an intergalactic subversion entity's assault on the galaxy far more interesting than a rehash of the Fall of Rome only in spehss with a twist ending of the space romans getting their planet back ( I mean come on the Vaygr somehow fucked over everyone in the galaxy and you're left dealing only with hostiles? not to mention the cop out way of killing off the Bentusi, no mentioned whatsoever of the Taiidani Republic in-game, not via cinematics and a slew of other plotholes which make a techno-virus and split beam ion cannon tech perfectly palatable in comparison ).

overmind2000
31st Jan 13, 4:41 AM
My views very much mirror Irika's - I understand some fanfiction can build up the story between HW 1 and 2 but honestly I felt that Homeworld 2 was almost an entirely new game world because there was so little building between it and HW1. Cataclysm at least built off the back of Homeworld, you knew what the story was, what was going on and who was who. In 2 I spent the whole time wondering "who the heck are these Vaygar and why the heck did they build another mother ship worse than the original? (I mean come on if you're building an intergalactic mothership you put some capital class weapons on it if you've got them -- and then the orbital platform basically beats it on every score barring the magic hyperdrive powers).

HW2 had mystic to it, something that I do value and have ever since those early Startrek films where space was almost like a mysterious fantasy to explore - Homeworld has always captured that (and indeed it could be said that that is the missing element in Cataclysm in some ways).

Cataclysm did change the formula a bit with the nature of how the mothership works and the scale, but honestly I thought it was a fun space game and presented new challenges and a new remix of the formula, without taking things so far that you were playing a different game.

Enkal
31st Jan 13, 4:57 AM
I also agree with Irkaa, I hate rock-paper-scissors RTS games! A counters B counters C counters A makes for a cheap way for developers to make a game "strategic" imho. Unique units are more fun, like the Mimic for example.

Timmaigh!
31st Jan 13, 7:01 AM
Oh, thanks for your replies, to all of you! Interesting read. Maybe i shall give a try to Cataclysm again, when i feel bored next time.

@Irika> You cant look at SoaSE as on 4X going real-time. Its not like that, regardless of how its presented. It is just more complex big-scale RTS game, which borrows some elements from 4x genre, but it does not make it 4X game itself. Additionally, you have always enough time to think and execute in Sins, as its not as deep as regular TBS, nor fast as regular RTS. And playing rather StarCraft FFA than this? I have to doubt you played SoaSE enough to judge it accordingly after such statement.

Anyway, Sins is not perfect game either. it has its flaws as well. It could use more of an "Exploration", and the battles are incredible clusterfucks, i wish it was actually more like Homeworld in this regard. Fully 3D, with possibilty to create formations and all the other stuff, which made HW battles so fun. I watched the other day on utube some video from BSG mod for HW2 and there were Battlestars slowly circling the Basestar with fighters flying around, it was so epic... i would love to see this in Sins, as much as i would love to see Sins-like 4X elements in Homeworld 3...

overmind2000
31st Jan 13, 7:26 AM
Sadly I think our closest to a tactical space sim game keeps getting lost with Nexus unable to get A KS to fund for a Nexus 2. Granted it was much smaller scale tactical battles, but its the only other real 3D space RTS style game to have come out in a very long while. Sadly its a very tricky genre and heck HW2 almost gave up (most maps were pretty much 2D affairs in terms of resources and you never really got much bonus jumping higher or lower than anything else).

Honestly I'd welcome a Homeworld style game - same approach just not the Homeworld story - let it start with something fresh that can be developed rather than rehashing or trying to tack onto something before (in the light of Battlestar being mentioned this was, in my view, a big weakness of the new series in that it tried to copy something older and different - it sort of got there but it would have been stronger to cut all ties and just use the same themed concept)

Nanaki
31st Jan 13, 9:24 AM
Regarding Homeworld 2, imho, it felt too much like Company of Heroes in space. I really didnt like the fighter/bomber squad system and, as others said, it was focused way too much on hard counters. The story was better than Cataclysm, but only that it did not give me the urge to vomit. It never quite stuck to me like Homeworld's story. I think a lot of it is that Homeworld 2 focused almost exclusively on the Vaygr, unlike Homeworld 1 where you encountered a wide variety of obsticles and opposition, most of which were completely unrelated to the Taiidan.



why the heck did they build another mother ship worse than the original?


This is something I agree with. At the very least in the original HW it was justified because the Mothership was an unarmed colony ship, but then the Hiigarans decide to use the same ship's blueprints as a flagship to lead a battlefleet against the Vaygr? I also disliked that the Hiigarans had some special hyperspace core, wheras in Homeworld 1 it was largely implied that the Hiigaran's hyperspace core was a perfectly ordinary one, but it was what allowed the Hiigarans to reverse engineer the tech that would allow them to travel FTL.

Although, the real reason why the Hiigaran mothership ended up looking like that the developers were trying to score nostalgia points. Figured that the bananaship was the 'icon' of the Homeworld series.



sorry but I find the story of an intergalactic subversion entity's assault on the galaxy far more interesting than a rehash of the Fall of Rome only in spehss with a twist ending of the space romans getting their planet back


The 'intergalactic subversion entity assault on the galaxy' is a trope used so often by scifi games that it has long since ceased to be interesting or entertaining. The Zerg, the Flood, the Aliens, the Tyranids, its all become a bit too common.

overmind2000
31st Jan 13, 9:42 AM
The whole "big evil going to take over everything" is a trope used so often in fantasy itself. Heck its just one level down from the other which is the "big dark evil mastermind of EVIL force" that is going to take over (and generally wants to kill everything). Both are so heavily overused its almost silly.


The whole magical hyperspace core thing felt, very contrived. Indeed that and the Bentusi felt horribly contrived. The Bentusi were originally only space traders, more advanced than some others, but still mostly traders. By the Homeworld 2 time they suddenly became some kind of prophet - in fact whilst the religious element was a nice touch it felt like everything had been twisted to serve it. It never felt quite the same, it never felt like a return to the Homeworld game and world - that at least Cataclysm got right. I know that in the original Homeworld there was a religious element and certainly Hw2 could have played it more strongly, but they just didn't build any connecting story links between the two games which leaves everything in HW2's core story just feeling out of place.

Nanaki
31st Jan 13, 9:50 AM
The whole "big evil going to take over everything" is a trope used so often in fantasy itself. Heck its just one level down from the other which is the "big dark evil mastermind of EVIL force" that is going to take over (and generally wants to kill everything). Both are so heavily overused its almost silly.


In my opinion, this trope is mainly used so much because the folks doing the writing are creatively bankrupt. Its more or less the default bad guy used when your writer cant think up a decent bad guy.



The whole magical hyperspace core thing felt, very contrived. Indeed that and the Bentusi felt horribly contrived. The Bentusi were originally only space traders, more advanced than some others, but still mostly traders. By the Homeworld 2 time they suddenly became some kind of prophet - in fact whilst the religious element was a nice touch it felt like everything had been twisted to serve it. It never felt quite the same, it never felt like a return to the Homeworld game and world - that at least Cataclysm got right. I know that in the original Homeworld there was a religious element and certainly Hw2 could have played it more strongly, but they just didn't build any connecting story links between the two games which leaves everything in HW2's core story just feeling out of place.

This I can agree with you, athough Cataclysm's sin is that while it starts off as a Homeworld game, it ceases to be one a few missions later.

overmind2000
31st Jan 13, 9:58 AM
I think the gaming world uses the trope a lot because its like Zombies - its an enemy you can mindlessly and easily hate without them having to actually write about it or risk fans liking the opponents more than the lead characters. It also means that they don't have to build as much in-game story around the opponent - its just the opponent. I suspect it helps in reducing the work load - sadly as much as we love it building a fully detailed world is a lot of work - what I've never understood though (and Sword of the Stars 2 is a prime example of this) is when developers put loads of energy into a faction, write lots about it, but never ever put any of that content into the game. It just sits in the office in the background and never makes it out, sometimes we are lucky and they slip some online onto the wiki, but otherwise its out of the game content.

In the past we got the manual which covered a lot of this, but I've never understood why they can't put it into a game (heck most of its only text so the file size would be tiny compared to most modern game sizes).

General Kong
31st Jan 13, 10:04 AM
a couple of days ago on he Homeworld Universe group on facebook, a guy thought up a cool idea about a rogue Kiith called Kiith Gaalsien
(http://www.facebook.com/groups/150264728446407/206017716204441/?comment_id=207044169435129&notif_t=group_comment_reply), which was responsible for destroying the Kharak Holy city of Saju-Ka, they were then condemned to wander the great desert, they attacked the other Kiith, and even the mothership itself, it can be assumed that they were destroyed by the Burning of Kharak, but who is to say they were all destroyed

so maybe instead of a threat from the outside, a threat from the inside would be an interesting story for a sequel

overmind2000
31st Jan 13, 10:13 AM
Eh even if someone survived the burning of Kharak the planet would have been decimated - you'd be waiting generations before they could get back into space flight again; and that's even if data survived to give them a jump start (and without that they'd not have anything to give them hyperdrive tech so yet even more time would be needed).

I think they could have done some story with bringing back the Guardians of the Garden - however in the Homeworld story itself it states that they drove their own people to death to defend it - which has torn whole debates open on if some did or didn't survive.

Norsehound
31st Jan 13, 10:29 AM
I also think that the supercore being carried to Kharak was pushing it. The idea of the Bentusi being ancient warriors is an interesting one (coinciding with a thought I had about them even before HW2), but I like better the idea that they were just one ship of intergalactic traders rather than a race of paranoid supremacists who won't talk to you unless you are in their special club. The fact that Relic gave us one Bentusi ship, and then Bentus, suggests that they were originally supposed to be just one ship. I like that idea a lot more.

Cataclysm does mix up the formula and Homeworld 2 doesn't build off the back of Homeworld 1, but HW2 feels like it continues the theme of destiny, legacy, and the greater picture. I could be reading too much between the lines (one might have to, to get a greater appreciation of the game), but I liked the notion that the Bentusi were passing off their mantle to the Hiigarans in a time of crisis, and the Hiigarans were facing a formidable enemy culture. I suppose what I'm saying is that the set-pieces for Homeworld 2 are much more interesting in my opinion than Cataclysm's. I'd take the Vaygr over the Beast, the Taiidan over the Somtaaw, and The progenitor relic-hunting story over Cataclysm's.

Speaking further on the gameplay perspective, I feel like Homeworld 2 had the greatest user interface of all three games. I didn't miss the build/research menus because I liked focusing on the action and leaving the ancillary materials to the manuals. I also didn't mind the hard counter system since I think it made the game faster, though I still wish frigates had more staying power.

And Kong... Gaalisen is mentioned in the Homeworld 1 manual doing those things.

Irika
31st Jan 13, 12:00 PM
Norse I prefer the Beast over the Vaygr because the Vaygr themselves just feel like the big cousins of the Turanic Raiders to me (only real difference is one culture took to conquest and settlement while the other was more nomadic). I also hated the more rapid pace of HW2 including the auto-continue after the last objective was done, I was one of the guys who liked harvesting and building up forces after every hostile in the area was dead or otherwise dealt with and HW2 just seems to push you along without any remorse and while HW2 followed the theme of the story of HW1 it felt... somehow cheaper, like everything was made "like HW1" but not better and the greater focus on action lends well to an RTTG (Real Time Tactical Game) not a RTS because in an RTTG you at least have a smaller cast of characters to relate to (think DoW2 and its expansions) whereas in a RTS the emphasis on action kinda dilutes everything down story wise for me because you're just spamming units to hardcounter whatever the enemy is using and going to the next mission whereas in HW1 you could use frigates to take out destroyers if push comes to shove and odd as it sounds I had a couple of frigates from the ones who attacked the cryo trays live until the end of the last mission and those guys put a destroyer to rest on their own during the kharak fleet destruction mission, in HW2... action, action action, if frigates are facing a destroyer the frigates are dead and your mothership will be dead as well if that's all you had to stop it.

As to the Beast being the generic subversion entity type (a la Flood, Zerg, Tyranids, etc)... you've gotta be kidding me... the zerg are the closest you'd come to the body horror of being warped into a alien creature while still technically being there but... we've only ever had Kerrigan mentally survive infestation and actually describe how traumatic an experience it was to be forced by the Overmind to do its bidding, the flood are space zombies, not much of a governing intelligence, akin to the zombies from resident evil if I were to be honest, the Tyranids are probably the closest you're gonna get to the Beast in terms of mentality (both seek biomass, IE to feed) but the Tyranids scarf you down whereas the Beast turns you into its slave server... out of all the intergalactic menaces I've seen in SF the Beast is the most horrific of them because A) it has a hive mind, B) it is a highly infectious, 100% deadly pathogen and C) you'll never truly die if you fall victim to it. And no the Beast cannot be compared to zombies in space, zombies as a matter of fact are undead creatures who's brain functions at the very base/instinctive level, if you die and become a zombie, you are gone, you're not forced to watch your own body devour those you knew as a living individual.

As for what HW3's story could be.... Dustwars type... galactic scale wars... no one being a good guy... something meaty filled with grey zones not black and white, a story where you wonder if what you're doing is right or wrong and you could even have either a Kadeshi remnant force or a fundamentalist survivor faction from Kharak crop up and during 2-3 missions you are forced by circumstance (a la HW1) or by your superiors (or someone) to commit a complete genocide against that people. I want a story where you don't come out feeling like Sphess Jesus come to save the galaxy from evil force/entity Y but you come out feeling more like a veteran soldier who came home after fighting a guerilla war where he/she was forced to do more wrong than good and you have to wonder if it was all worth it in the end.

General Kong
31st Jan 13, 2:14 PM
@NorseHound: they were?, crud, I havent read that manual in 12 years, guess I need to keep more up to date :P

Norsehound
1st Feb 13, 1:39 AM
Given how little we see of the Turanic raiders is that really so much a bad thing? I also don't think that the Vaygr are pallet swaps for the Turanics... they have very much their own character but borrowing traits from the other races. They swarm like the Kadesh, are cheap and ineffective like the Turanics, and with Taiidan striping. Their preference for missiles and exotic weaponry also sets them apart from the Turanics and makes them distinctive. I also love their parallel to the Mongol hordes out of history because it's not a subject often reiterated in public school history.

I can agree that in some places the pacing is too quick for Homeworld 2, and the no-breather is a good example. But one of the things I enjoy most about the Homeworld experience is quick task-management for your attack groups. As Vaygr, I like watching my fighters move from subsystem to subsystem while I also have an eye out for any enemy Pulsars to attack with my Lancers. I'm also thrilled to punish Hiigaran commanders with my laser corvettes when they don't bother to put up a full protective screen.

On the other hand I didn't like the long slow resourcing process. None of the HW resource and production models I particularly enjoyed... if it were up to me I'd eliminate it entirely to shift Homeworld into being a real-time-tactics game. Ships would last longer, there's more of a need to focus on tactical play, and battles would be quicker to start and be more strategically important in the approach.

Irkia, you have to be kidding us about the Beast that you can't draw comparisons. Do you want me to illustrate? Like the Flood (and The Thing before it), the beast is an on-contact contaminant. Ships ramming the beast get the infection. Like the Borg, you're turned into drones for the whole. Like the Zerg, the Flood, and the Borg the body is mutilated and mutated into serving a function. Like all of these infectious aliens the consciousness is subsumed into the whole. And like a majority of the virus (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheVirus), they have a super power by basically saying, "Tag, your it!" as the core of why they are a menace to the universe. Oh, and Zombies? if you're bitten by one you turn into one. Just like the Beast.

I just prefer my set-pieces (especially in homeworld) to limit the space magic. I like that all the races in Homeworld are human because it's a nice aversion to the demand for aliens in science fiction (which are often disappointing in one way or another). I like that the hardware of the universe is large, bulky, and in a way primitive and doesn't rely on nano-technology (macro-technology actually, which is anotehr aversion to typical scifi). The concept behind the Beast, and many of the technological changes introduced by Cataclysm, really break that stride wheras Homeworld 2 keeps them intact stylistically.

Irika
1st Feb 13, 3:15 AM
o.O yes and by that token HW1 breaks the style as well, take the old argument for HW1 over HW2 in gameplay terms: The fact that the biggest line ship in HW1 (the Heavy Cruiser) is apparently technologically superior to HW2's (the Battlecruiser), if by taking your word for it the Heavy Cruiser should barely fit two ion cannons and 2-3 mass drivers to be in the same style as HW2.

Space magic subversion beam? No more so than Ion Cannons, hell it's far far more palatable to say there exists a device which can split a coherent ion beam into mean weaker beams than it is to say the ion beam itself can be projected a few dozen, maybe a hundred meters away from the aperture of the ion cannon electromagnetic lens assembly (because any other type of lens would get blown out by the first shot and because you need some sort of focusing to get something close to a weapon and not an Ion Engine). To physicist space magic is having a coherent beam of particles travel any distance in interplanetary or interstellar space let alone cause damage to anything, to call the subversion beam space magic is laughable because while one can be like "uhh... how can the beast virus survive the trip through an energy beam?" you'd only really need nanobots sufficiently resistant to EM radiation to just fling them out en mass towards your target, either guided by a focused/weak electromagnetic beam or just splurged out in a torrent via a mass driver type mechanism, compared to this an Ion Cannon is pop SF at best. Also while on the subject: Lancer corvettes would need to be the size of a frigate to pack a laser beam capable of punching through contemporary alloys under combat conditions and that's just for one laser firing in a continuous beam from a stationary position, a pulse laser would at best ablate a small part of the surface armour and just piss whoever you're firing at off enough to pop a mass driver slug in your general direction.

And as you put it yourself the Vaygr aren't original at all, they're just a copy paste of many other races's traits while having the expectation of being their own race, if they were a hodge podge race of salvagers trying to get revenge on the Higarans for whatever reasons would both excuse their samey feel and also might make them more relateable to the player but as is with the current canon they're just douches led by some vaguely arab-looking guy on his quest to be prove God's chosen... even the Taiidan had more of a credible background and motives to be douches and no the Dustwar/sketches docs released a while back aren't really canon so you cannot state that the Higarans oppressed the Vaygr, all we have as a background story is Vaygr = bad nomads who want "to take ar jobs...err I mean... sphess!".

Also when I said you cannot compare the Beast to any other intergalactic menace I meant it in a 1 on 1 comparison because the Beast has all the best traits of them and makes it far more original than Mongols in space in the Homeworld universe (we've already had two semi-nomadic races, the Kadeshi whom it's assumed lived on their ships and wandered around their nebula defending it making them semi-nomadic and the Turanic Raiders whom were almost fully nomadic if they did not have a scattering of outposts here and there and that 1 planetoid depending if you count the secret mission as canon or not and Vaygr bring absolutely nothing new to the table in any way, no laser weapons don't count, the PDA was a laser based harvesting system so even lasers aren't new to Homeworld).

At least we can agree on the fact that a HW3 RTTG would not be a bad game if given the proper attention and possibly have some character development or at least exposition a la Nexus The Jupiter Incident.

Timmaigh!
1st Feb 13, 5:37 AM
Well, using your words, if HW3 was about to become RTTG, i would drop it as a hot potato and walk away :-) I NEED the strategic layer in my games, i would not go as far to say that Nexus was rubbish for not having it, as clearly it was not, but at the same time, it was not my cup of tea because of that.

Irika
1st Feb 13, 6:33 AM
Timma: You could have an RTS/RTTG hybrid easily as well (field repairs for the ships via harvested asteroid/salvaging of wrecks, production of a limited array of support orientated ships or even drones while in the field as it were, if you really wanna go mental you could have a limited number of frigate-capital-super capital ships you start a mission off with but have to support them in one way or another in logistical terms, such as deploying a support carrier behind your lines who's only purposes is supplying the fleet with spare parts and ammunition manufactured by processing salvaged wrecks or mining available resources in whatever forms available, say you field missile ships, they'd only have so many missiles in its magazines before requiring a resupply, this could also add another element of strategy to the RTTG as you'd need to be sure you can recover disabled ships or securely resupply the ones out in the field without losing the resupply ships which could cost you its crew, the crew of the ships themselves could add an RPG element to the mix where crew is a limited resource in each mission and you only get resupplied, more or less depending on performance, after each mission and you'd have a further incentive to keep the crew alive as the more experienced the crew the better the ship performance in incremental degrees though you could add in a pseudo-class progression system where crew gets experience only in the ships or ship class it is assigned to so reassigning a experienced strike craft pilot to a frigate will not bonus the frigate's performance and as a final idea that sparked from that magazine resupply idea: you could also have differing types of weapons in terms of effects such as high penetration low damage weapons which would be targeted at protected areas of the ship such as the magazines or the reactor, you could have mass driver types which would differ in effect based on size and projectile type, you'd have anti-fighter systems which could be rapid fire mass drivers, pulse laser array's, defensive missile batteries, or even drone bays, all of these would have boons and negatives such as energy weapons requiring heat sinks a la Mass Effect's tiger stripes but be fairly good at taking out enemy systems , mass drivers would be the adaptable weapon system for example you could have railguns which would be long distance but bad tracking and autocannons which would be basically a short barrel rapid fire mass driver, then you could alternate ammo types between a solid slug which would be high energy low penetration, high mass ordnance and you could have a sabot type round for high energy, low mass, high penetration with a possible 3rd being a semi-solid fragmentation round to be used against lightly armoured targets and this being ammunition you'd have to set up a supply chain to produce it on the field or at least supply you ships with more once they run out. There are more ideas but... most people probably hate me right now for the wall of text XD ).

Enkal
1st Feb 13, 6:55 AM
"most people probably hate me right now for the wall of text XD ). "

Paragraphs are your friend. ;)

As to your post, the amount of micromanagement needed for what you propose sounds horrible. :P

Gorb
1st Feb 13, 6:58 AM
And yet Homeworld didn't even have squads (HW2 did, I have been informed). Talk about micromanagement :D

Irika
1st Feb 13, 8:52 AM
Enkal to each his own I rather enjoy more complex games though with the crew system in place the devs can effectively control the amount of micromanagement you would have to do in each mission easily as you would only get so many ships per mission and automated ships (IE drones) need motherships to control them as well as rearm and repair them and they would be for all intents and purposes a autonomous, free moving weapon system, not a ship unto itself and the game itself could lend itself easily to certain easy tactics (like for example having a strike craft swarm style with a few artillery ships further back to help take out ships or ship systems geared towards killing strike craft swarms, this tactic would require very little in the way of micromanagement) to get you through most if not all of the game without having to overthink things but if you want to have more advanced tactics you delve into the micromanagement side of things as a prerequisite (like for example you want to have close range capital ships ships which tear apart enemy ships with a more flashy spectacle, this would require a lengthier supply chain to the front line ships, Repair and rescue operations for damaged ships, differing types of ammunition, possible heat management of the closer range ship, etc).

Nanaki
1st Feb 13, 10:41 AM
Given how little we see of the Turanic raiders is that really so much a bad thing? I also don't think that the Vaygr are pallet swaps for the Turanics... they have very much their own character but borrowing traits from the other races. They swarm like the Kadesh, are cheap and ineffective like the Turanics, and with Taiidan striping. Their preference for missiles and exotic weaponry also sets them apart from the Turanics and makes them distinctive. I also love their parallel to the Mongol hordes out of history because it's not a subject often reiterated in public school history.


The Turanics were all about the multi-purpose, their best ships, the Battlecarrier (my favorite ship in all the homeworldverse), Standard Corvette, and Missile Corvette had this written all over them. The Vaygr, if anything, run exactly opposite of this as they are even more specialized than the Hiigarans.



I just prefer my set-pieces (especially in homeworld) to limit the space magic. I like that all the races in Homeworld are human because it's a nice aversion to the demand for aliens in science fiction (which are often disappointing in one way or another). I like that the hardware of the universe is large, bulky, and in a way primitive and doesn't rely on nano-technology (macro-technology actually, which is anotehr aversion to typical scifi). The concept behind the Beast, and many of the technological changes introduced by Cataclysm, really break that stride wheras Homeworld 2 keeps them intact stylistically.

I sort of agree with you, but I dont mind Aliens if theres some actual thought put into them, but the last thing I want is a Predator/Protoss clone, or a Zerg/Beast/Flood clone. I am fucking tierd of the Human, Protoss, Zerg paradigm that has become rather infectious in the space sci-fi genre. I would rather have humans if that were the case. But at the same time, I would not mind aliens that at least travel away from those paths.



the flood are space zombies, not much of a governing intelligence, akin to the zombies from resident evil if I were to be honest



A) it has a hive mind, B) it is a highly infectious, 100% deadly pathogen and C) you'll never truly die if you fall victim to it.


You havent actually played halo, have you? Flood is exactly, 100% the same. Hell, pretty much every fucking sci-fi game with space horrors has something to this effect. Its not original, its not unique, and its fucking everywhere. Thats even before you get into the whole Terran, Protoss, Zerg paradigm which is EVERYWHERE. Every game with 3 races, you have the human race, you have the ultra-advanced crystal-tech scaly aliens whom mope on about honor or religion and their tech looks like something that came out of mattel, while you have the bug or virus race with a penchant for zerging, and having everything look red and fleshy with random claws and spikes and w/e. Its shit like this that makes me look in envy at the Fantasy genre because, even though Orcs and Elves are just as fucking ubiquitious there, they at least attempts interesting races. Imagine a fantasy genre that has only Humans, Orcs, and Elves as racial choices, and nothing else, and you get the Sci-fi genre in a nutshell.



And as you put it yourself the Vaygr aren't original at all, they're just a copy paste of many other races's traits while having the expectation of being their own race, if they were a hodge podge race of salvagers trying to get revenge on the Higarans for whatever reasons would both excuse their samey feel and also might make them more relateable to the player but as is with the current canon they're just douches led by some vaguely arab-looking guy on his quest to be prove God's chosen... even the Taiidan had more of a credible background and motives to be douches and no the Dustwar/sketches docs released a while back aren't really canon so you cannot state that the Higarans oppressed the Vaygr, all we have as a background story is Vaygr = bad nomads who want "to take ar jobs...err I mean... sphess!".


Again, though, I am not a huge fan of Homeworld 2's story, but at the very least it just makes the minor sin of copying the original instead of bringing in a sci-fi trope that is lame, overused, and needs to fucking die in a fire.

Mokino
1st Feb 13, 11:24 AM
Blame Starcraft's influence for the 3 races thing. In way that game ruined scifi RTS games. Hell, even Command & Conquer suffered from it with the 3rd game.

There are other race options with scifi too, though. I mean just look at DoW 1 and 2 for how much the formula can be mixed up if developers take the effort (or the Sword of the Stars series which does interesting things with its races, even if the second game is awful.)

And sadly most fantasy games are a combination of those three cliches (orcs, humans, elves.) That's just how it is. Even Elder Scrolls suffers from it, though they split humans and elves into several subspecies.

Heck, just look at the races of Star Drive (http://www.stardrivegame.com) for how much the cliches can be mixed up. The official wiki has more info (http://stardrive.wikia.com/wiki/Race). You've got capitalist humans, mollusks that cybernetically enslaved minor races to do most of their work, a race of space wolves (who are sort of your "zerg" race as they have crazy population but lower tech,) Draylock who look like your typical "space babe' race until you realize they're just using holographic emitters and are devious spies, plant people, a robot insect race and a couple more.

You can break the cliches with enough imagination. Sadly the current zerg-protoss-human paradigm is a lot easier to balance.

Nanaki
1st Feb 13, 12:19 PM
Blame Starcraft's influence for the 3 races thing. In way that game ruined scifi RTS games. Hell, even Command & Conquer suffered from it with the 3rd game.

There are other race options with scifi too, though. I mean just look at DoW 1 and 2 for how much the formula can be mixed up if developers take the effort (or the Sword of the Stars series which does interesting things with its races, even if the second game is awful.)


I havent actually played SotS primarily because I heard of how bad it was (and partially because of my lack of interest in 4X, see below), so I will have to take your word for that. Dawn of War is an exception, yes, and there are exceptions out there, but they are extremely rare.



And sadly most fantasy games are a combination of those three cliches (orcs, humans, elves.) That's just how it is. Even Elder Scrolls suffers from it, though they split humans and elves into several subspecies.


Actually, I disagree with this. Most fantasy games, while they do include the Orcs, Humans, Elves cliche, they also include other races that either use cliches that, while still cliches, are much less common, or use races that are actually fairly unique. Sci-fi does neither of those things. You get your Terran, Protoss, Zerg, and nothing else. Even Elder Scrolls, while a vast majority of races are either Elves, Orcs, or Humans, you still have the Argonians and Khajiit whom fit into none of the three tropes. That is enough to placate me, though it helps I really do like the Argonians/Khajiit.

Now, if only Bethesda were not completely retarded on race balance, but thats fixable through mods.



Heck, just look at the races of Star Drive (http://www.stardrivegame.com) for how much the cliches can be mixed up. The official wiki has more info (http://stardrive.wikia.com/wiki/Race). You've got capitalist humans, mollusks that cybernetically enslaved minor races to do most of their work, a race of space wolves (who are sort of your "zerg" race as they have crazy population but lower tech,) Draylock who look like your typical "space babe' race until you realize they're just using holographic emitters and are devious spies, plant people, a robot insect race and a couple more.


Wow, thats actually not too shabby. Although unfortunately I just cant get into 4X games. Even Sins of a Solar Empire (which, disgustingly, uses the terran/protoss/zerg dynamic) I can barely get into even though its hardly a 4X game at all.

Mokino
1st Feb 13, 12:43 PM
The first Sword of the Stars is a very good game which is why the sequel being a colossal pile of bugs and poor design decisions was such a headscratcher.

Also, a scifi cliche you're forgetting is the token machine race. You see that a lot too. I can't believe I forgot about Argonians and Khajit though. Maybe because I've been playing Skyrim and there's not too many of either in Nordland.

Star Drive's an odd one. It's hard to describe its gameplay (partly because it's realtime instead of turn-based like most 4X games.) Sins of a Solar Empire with a lot more depth, maybe.

And actually Sins doesn't really use the t/p/z dynamic imo, especially by Rebellion. None of the races really fit the zerg archetype. Rebellion also further complicates things with the loyalist/rebel splits.

Timmaigh!
1st Feb 13, 5:08 PM
@ Nanaki> Why cant you get into Sins? I understand why not into 4X genre overall, maybe for the same reasons i cant (i hate to deal with all kind of "managers" in these games), but as you said, SoaSE is barely 4X game at all....it takes maybe 3 games to get into it and understand all the important game mechanics.

EDIT> How do you quote on this forums, ffs? All i see is Reply.

Gorb
1st Feb 13, 5:23 PM
Right click on "Reply" > Open in New Tab/Window, or click "Reply" twice :)

Carl
1st Feb 13, 5:41 PM
Or type [.quote]"What you want to quote goes here."[./quote] without the full stops, ( . ).

e.g.


"What you want to quote goes here."

Ammon Ra
1st Feb 13, 7:11 PM
You havent actually played halo, have you? Flood is exactly, 100% the same. Hell, pretty much every fucking sci-fi game with space horrors has something to this effect. Its not original, its not unique, and its fucking everywhere. Thats even before you get into the whole Terran, Protoss, Zerg paradigm which is EVERYWHERE. Every game with 3 races, you have the human race, you have the ultra-advanced crystal-tech scaly aliens whom mope on about honor or religion and their tech looks like something that came out of mattel, while you have the bug or virus race with a penchant for zerging, and having everything look red and fleshy with random claws and spikes and w/e. Its shit like this that makes me look in envy at the Fantasy genre because, even though Orcs and Elves are just as fucking ubiquitious there, they at least attempts interesting races. Imagine a fantasy genre that has only Humans, Orcs, and Elves as racial choices, and nothing else, and you get the Sci-fi genre in a nutshell.

well, that is kind of true for the TES series: 5 humans factions, 4 elves (including 'orcs'), and 2 animal races. human, high tech/magical race with superiority complex, and the token animalistic "primitive" races.

Alas, I digress from the topic at hand.

Wintermute
1st Feb 13, 7:23 PM
I'm late to this thread, but I will say that I have been dying to see the Homeworld series put on Steam and/or GOG just so that I can actually show the game to my friends and play it with them. It's especially hard to find copies of HW1 these days, which makes it bery difficult to convince my friends to give it a try. Getting the games on Steam or GOG could revinvigorate interest in the series and for that reason alone I kind of want to support these guys. But most people in this thread seems to have this endeavor pegged as a questionable idea, and I do trust the judgement of a number of the people who've posted.

Man, I'd give anything for a new Homeworld game, though.

(I still get goosebumps playing 1, 2, and Cata)

Nanaki
1st Feb 13, 8:28 PM
Also, a scifi cliche you're forgetting is the token machine race. You see that a lot too. I can't believe I forgot about Argonians and Khajit though. Maybe because I've been playing Skyrim and there's not too many of either in Nordland.


Well, the most dissapointing thing about Skyrim is that the game automatically assumes you are a Nord (you are even directly referred to as one once or twice) even if you are of another race. The racial-specific lines pretty much only exist at the beginning of the game. I usually play Khajiit, by the way.



Star Drive's an odd one. It's hard to describe its gameplay (partly because it's realtime instead of turn-based like most 4X games.) Sins of a Solar Empire with a lot more depth, maybe.

And actually Sins doesn't really use the t/p/z dynamic imo, especially by Rebellion. None of the races really fit the zerg archetype. Rebellion also further complicates things with the loyalist/rebel splits.

Sins of a solar empire is one of those T/P/Z dynamics that dont follow the mechanics of the dynamic, but follow the aesthetics of the dynamic. Advent are still Protoss, and Vasari are still Zerg. The Loyalist/rebels are virtual mirrors of eachother aside for two units (admittingly, one of thems a titan) and some techs. Likewise, the differences between the Terrans, Advent, and Vasari in SoaSE is more like the differences between the Kushan and Taiidan in Homeworld 1 in that they were mostly mirrors of eachother with the biggest difference being aesthetic. Still, those aesthetic differences largely follow the Terran/Protoss/Zerg dynamic.

The reason why I dont like SoaSE that much is that, I feel, I get distracted too much by trying to babysit my worlds when I would rather command ships to annihilate my enemies. Not to mention theres something that unsettles me about being anchored to a planet. I love the motherships/carriers in Homeworld because you could move them around or even bring them along with your combat ships and you only had to really babysit one thing (the mothership), wheras in all these planet-based games you are essentially stuck with a large number of giant, motionless anchors that you cant reposition and that you must defend.

Norsehound
2nd Feb 13, 2:16 AM
Let's stay on topic here folks. This should be about Homeworld at least, which already doesnt' get discussed enough IMO.

Irkia, your points would come off clearer if you got to the point quicker or at least contained a thought within a paragraph. Not all of us want to digest a wall of text to get to whatever point your trying to make.

In terms of technological superiority there could be a number of advances that are transparent to us as the game players. For all we know computer control is much more advanced in HW1 than HW2. Ion cannons might also be more powerful than their HW1 contemporaries, but then armor is also more resilient, making a net balance of zero. The Hiigaran Battlecruiser is the standard ship of the new Hiigaran navy for whatever reason; that it is armed the way it is might not even have anything to do with optimal armament but perhaps manpower, cost, and efficiency. Whatever the case, that's what the Hiigarans used in HW2.

In regard to Ion cannons, Homeworld 1 gave us the precedent that beam technology is large and cumbersome and requires a big ship to fire. Small ships use common mass-drivers for space, efficiency, and ease of use. They are established as definitive anti-capital weapons and are big and scary. Making them fire quick and used for anti-fighter roles (as phasers essentially) stands the original and novel concept on it's head...for what? the lulz? A missile-firing frigate would make more sense without having to contort Homeworld stylistic convention for the hell of it.

The Vaygr are similar to the Turanics but I wouldn't go as far as to say they are a direct copy+paste. The Turnaics are space pirates, the Vaygr are space vikings. Both of them are known as raiders, but pirates and vikings are both two seperate things and cultures. So it is with the Turanics and Vaygr. Besides, even if the Vaygr are a re-thought Turanic Raider band, at least they did a good job on the ships and the menace instead of hashing an entirely new idea that tries wayy too hard.

I also find the idea of an angry culture in space much more believable than some arbitrary space virus with super magical infection powers.

And while the beast may be "original", sometimes going too far to be creative can hurt the story. Disney films don't need gratuitous gore and body horror just because Disney movies haven't done anything like that before. Many would probably agree that slasher tropes don't fit in a standard Disney movie, and I feel like the fantastic science used in Cataclysm sticks out too much from Homeworld. It just doesn't feel that way because Homeworld is one game to compare to Cataclysm with.

Again, even if the Vaygr aren't 100% original at least they were impressive. There's enough there for my imagination to kick off and do my own defining of who they could be, and that's one of the reasons I loved Homeworld.

Maybe I would support a Homeworld RTS if resource management was different. What I like about the RTT model is that I would have my fleet ready to go at the start of the scenario, and it would reward intelligent play instead of giving it to the player with the most resource production. All the RTSes kind of feel samey and uninteresting since Starcraft set the new precedents.

On Micromanagement... I feel I'm one of the few who actually likes squadrons over individual fighters for the Homeworld games. I wouldn't want to be giving orders to individual pilots, I would rather give them to their squadron commanders and let them do the rest. It makes my fleet feel bigger and more like I'm a fleet commander instead of an omnipresent God responsible for telling pilots to shoot back when theyre shot at. *shrug*

Irika
2nd Feb 13, 3:27 AM
It's a matter of taste I guess but as interesting adversaries go the progenitor AI constructs hold more interest in HW2 for me even though they're so limited and only appear in a few missions because they have something which, aside from a rather annoying salvage corvette from HW1, hasn't been seen before and also sort of felt nostalgic somewhat to me because for the first time since HW1 (and first missions of Cataclysm) you feel like you've bitten off more than you can chew and your fleet is getting blown to pieces even as you try to consider what to do and how to counter and alien and very powerful adversary (in HW1 you start off with interceptors as your mainstay combat ship and through salvaging and trade develop your own better ships, in Cataclysm you're a mining clan who never needed more than a handful of combat ship classes and you're forced to develop new ones by necessity, in HW2... why you can't just roll into the 2nd and 3rd missions with destroyers and battlecruisers I have no idea as both are readily available ships in the Higaran Navy).

To reiterate: I personally prefer an inhuman adversary to the tired tropes of space vikings or whatever else you can scrounge up, because to me the inhuman ones have the most potential for growth in unique ways and to be perfectly clear when I say inhuman I am referring to a species or entity which so alien to us as humans that we don't have any frame of reference (the Progenitor AIs for example, you never find out just what type of AI they are, if they are "shackled" to their programming or are actually following their own desires because they respected/loved their creators, you only ever find out that keeper-class ships are aware but in what way is never specified and the keeper ships the Bentus destroys via its self destruction could be acting out contingency programs or could be genuinely vindictive at a upstart race essentially graverobbing their creator's tombs).

To me the choice between a human antagonist and a inhuman one is down ease vs complexity, both can be very easy to put it, but if you want even a half decent story you need to flesh them out and that's where the inhuman one spikes in complexity because you need something utterly alien yet believable to the player.

As for squads vs individual strikecraft... sorry dude but the tactical inflexibility of fixed squadrons screws with both the believability of the game and the tactical options within gameplay, these two questions pretty much demolish squadrons piecemeal: Why would a squadron of fighter craft stay in formation (thus limiting the individual craft's preformance) in the middle of combat? Why am I forced to make 4 squadrons of interceptors when I only need 16 interceptors not 20?

GeoffS
2nd Feb 13, 3:40 AM
Why would a squadron of fight craft stay in formation (thus limiting the individual craft's preformance) in the middle of combat?Because history has proved that fighters staying in formation to fight have the advantage. They can provide mutual defensive coverage as well as optimum visual coverage. "Lone Wolf" fighter pilots are a movie invention, in the real world they die.

Irika
2nd Feb 13, 6:44 AM
so you mean to say that at knife fight ranges (such as those in HW2) a large formation of fighters would stay together once they engaged? I'd understand 2-3 craft formations fighting in unison backing each other up but not 5 or higher, I'd also understand corvetts working in pairs as they're not as dependant on agility and forward facing fixed weapon systems but again not in large formations once engaged.

Nanaki
2nd Feb 13, 9:46 AM
And while the beast may be "original", sometimes going too far to be creative can hurt the story.


I just spent an entire post explaining why the Beast arent original. Please read it.



Maybe I would support a Homeworld RTS if resource management was different. What I like about the RTT model is that I would have my fleet ready to go at the start of the scenario, and it would reward intelligent play instead of giving it to the player with the most resource production. All the RTSes kind of feel samey and uninteresting since Starcraft set the new precedents.


One of my favorite gametypes of Homeworld is basically resource injections with no harvesting. You have a limited amount of resources and you have to use them wisely. Still, I dont mind resource management, I just wish it was largely automated. The only thing I should have to do with a resource operation is defend it.



On Micromanagement... I feel I'm one of the few who actually likes squadrons over individual fighters for the Homeworld games. I wouldn't want to be giving orders to individual pilots, I would rather give them to their squadron commanders and let them do the rest. It makes my fleet feel bigger and more like I'm a fleet commander instead of an omnipresent God responsible for telling pilots to shoot back when theyre shot at. *shrug*

My personal preference is to allow players to build their own squads. Group up a number of fighters and/or bombers, and group them up into a wing.



To reiterate: I personally prefer an inhuman adversary to the tired tropes of space vikings or whatever else you can scrounge up, because to me the inhuman ones have the most potential for growth in unique ways and to be perfectly clear when I say inhuman I am referring to a species or entity which so alien to us as humans that we don't have any frame of reference (the Progenitor AIs for example, you never find out just what type of AI they are, if they are "shackled" to their programming or are actually following their own desires because they respected/loved their creators, you only ever find out that keeper-class ships are aware but in what way is never specified and the keeper ships the Bentus destroys via its self destruction could be acting out contingency programs or could be genuinely vindictive at a upstart race essentially graverobbing their creator's tombs).


The thing about inhuman adversaries is that they ether end up really well done, such as the Ghost Ship or the Progenitors, or they end up being done really poorly, such as the Beast. I would rather have a mediocre human adversary than a poorly done inhuman one, and that is what my argument of the Vaygr vs the Beast boils down to.

Irika
2nd Feb 13, 10:21 AM
1) It's keepers and the movers not Progenitors, the movers are the progenitor AI constructs which you encounter in the Karos Graveyard with the keeper possibly being a emergent or full AI.
2) The Beast maybe unoriginal but the Vaygr are unoriginal in both the setting and the real world (nomadic warrior clans basically).
3) I like the squadron idea to be honest, it seems to be the best of both worlds.
4) Uhmm... how much more automated did you want HW1,HW2 and Cataclysm resource system to be? you hit the harvest button, built a few more resourcers and maybe a controller and let them at it, that's baseline minimal interaction from my point of view, the only way you could get less is if you have control points like Company of Heroes or Dawn of War and that system I severely dislike for all its benefits.
5) Inhuman adversaries let you have more possibilities in terms of what you can do with them because aside from not bending the laws of the physical universe without a very good explanation you pretty much get to do whatever you want and true while inhuman adversaries have their own tropes they're easier to avoid whereas human adversaries are more restricted by normal human expectations and thus their tropes are harder to avoid so it is far more difficult to see a truly unique human adversary (case and point one of the most memorable antagonists of recent memory are the Reapers from the Mass Effect universe whom are anything but human).

Nanaki
2nd Feb 13, 10:44 AM
1) It's keepers and the movers not Progenitors, the movers are the progenitor AI constructs which you encounter in the Karos Graveyard with the keeper possibly being a emergent or full AI.


Those are just the names of specific units within the Progenitor AI 'race'. Either way, they are all the same, with the only major difference being the form they took, and how they were programmed.



4) Uhmm... how much more automated did you want HW1,HW2 and Cataclysm resource system to be? you hit the harvest button, built a few more resourcers and maybe a controller and let them at it, that's baseline minimal interaction from my point of view, the only way you could get less is if you have control points like Company of Heroes or Dawn of War and that system I severely dislike for all its benefits.


You still have to build resource collectors, assign resource controllers to them, and occasionally look over your shoulder to make sure they did not do anything completely stupid, like the resource controller meandering to an empty part of the sector because the resource collectors it was assigned to moved in two opposite directions.



5) Inhuman adversaries let you have more possibilities in terms of what you can do with them because aside from not bending the laws of the physical universe without a very good explanation you pretty much get to do whatever you want and true while inhuman adversaries have their own tropes they're easier to avoid whereas human adversaries are more restricted by normal human expectations and thus their tropes are harder to avoid so it is far more difficult to see a truly unique human adversary (case and point one of the most memorable antagonists of recent memory are the Reapers from the Mass Effect universe whom are anything but human).

Again, the restrictions of human adversaries is precisely what makes it very difficult to ever make a terrible one. Inhuman adversaries can either be really good, or really terrible precisely because of those lack of restrictions. So yeah, the Vaygr were completely unoriginal. I never exactly held them up as an example of doing antagonists right, but the Vaygr just invoked the feelings of 'meh'. The Beast, on the other hand, were so shitty that they made me angry because they were such a terrible, terrible, cliche and one-dimensional antagonist.

Also, the Reapers are a memorable antagonist? Since when? They are another generic, all-powerful, one-dimensional creature of evil that seeks to destroy the universe for shits and giggles. The Reapers even have the pre-requisite SPIKES EVERYWHERE and red/black color scheme of EVIL because apparently the attitude was not obvious enough. They are the absolute worst antagonist and the only thing memorable about them is just how bad they are. Even Bioware's earlier writings was much better than this garbage.

Irika
2nd Feb 13, 2:19 PM
Dragon Age's zom...dark spawn were better? Really? The reapers at least have an alien aesthetic going for them at least and you could even say they looked evil because ( keeping in mind the Mass Effect universe being a fictional future of humanity ) early proto-human societies recorded what happened to the protheans in myths and oral histories and those got passed down and turned into our idea of evil. Also if you think that's the motivation of the Reapers then I suggest you go replay the trilogy (though I won't fault you for not finishing the 3rd game). Also google definition of all-powerful please because reapers have been killed in the past.

On the resource issue: That's your failure on the part of macro not the game's failure in gameplay terms, it's akin to not noticing you no longer have resource points capped.

And as for human adversaries being more difficult to get wrong.... uhmm... Wing Commander's (movie) antagonists, Priest's main antagonist, CoD series antagonists, MoH series antagonists, call of juarez the cartel's antagonists, area 51's antagonist's, the entire resident evil franchise's antagonists (both movie and games), need I continue?

That said lets get back on topic: If we do get Homeworld 3 gents what sort of storyline would you want seen? (as stated previously I'd like a gritty/realistic war story based around a fixed group of characters during a galactic conflict or similar event).

Nanaki
2nd Feb 13, 5:06 PM
Dragon Age's zom...dark spawn were better? Really?


Because Dragon Age is the only other game Bioware ever made. I was more specifically referring to Jon Irenicus from Baldurs Gate 2, and even Saren from Mass Effect 1.



The reapers at least have an alien aesthetic going for them at least and you could even say they looked evil because ( keeping in mind the Mass Effect universe being a fictional future of humanity ) early proto-human societies recorded what happened to the protheans in myths and oral histories and those got passed down and turned into our idea of evil. Also if you think that's the motivation of the Reapers then I suggest you go replay the trilogy (though I won't fault you for not finishing the 3rd game). Also google definition of all-powerful please because reapers have been killed in the past.


I know exactly what im talking about. First game, the Reaper just tells you that its desires are 'beyond your comprehension', second game, it shows a Reaper under construction using the flesh of thousands of humans, third game, the Reaper explains to you that its because of the inevitable conflict between man and machine. The reasons change from game to game, and none of them really make any sense whatsoever. Still doesnt change the fact that the Reapers are pretty fucking close to Villian sue (you needed the entire fucking citadel fleet, plus a human fleet, to kill one, and that was pretty much the classic definition of 'phyrric victory', not even Keepers from HW2 were that tough) and are as uninteresting as villians possibly get.



And as for human adversaries being more difficult to get wrong.... uhmm... Wing Commander's (movie) antagonists,


Wut? Wing Commander's antagonists were not human at all, just that the costuming sucked so badly they had to hide it with shitty lighting and lots of smoke. Read up on the Kilrathi (http://www.wcnews.com/wcpedia/Kilrathi) sometime.



Priest's main antagonist, CoD series antagonists, MoH series antagonists, call of juarez the cartel's antagonists, area 51's antagonist's, the entire resident evil franchise's antagonists (both movie and games), need I continue?


The human antagonists were bad, yes, but they werent horrible. They were still, to borrow a phrase, human, and unlike the Beast were not some kind of indestructable, super-invincible, one-dimensional villian sue with a single-track motivation and a penchant for red, black, spikes, and sounding as evil as possible.

Irika
2nd Feb 13, 6:25 PM
Saren? You mean a uni-dimensional tool who realised too late that Soverign was using him? I cannot say about Baldur's gate anything as I've never played it

Also last time I checked neither the Higarans nor the Vaygr were human nor were they even related species between them, still have human traits, the kilrathi of the Wing Commander movie were unidimensional antagonists who were so sure they could win that they jumped their ships 1 at a time into a meatgrinder.

Actually the reasons stated in the first two Mass Effects make sense, the 3rd really broke it to be honest as it relied too much on flawed cyclical logic to work. And comparing the battle of the citadel to an actual battle is laughable because of the fleets that went up against Sovereign only the human one had any idea what the were doing and lets not forget that the citadel fleet itself got mostly wiped out by the geth fleet not Sovereign, if you look closer you'll see that the casualties inflicted by Sovereign directly number in the few dozens true but for a first battle it's actually not bad considering it was an ambush and Sov had a geth fleet as backup.

Beast indestructible?(from the first missions you pushed it back quite easily) super-invincible?(only until you developed counters to infection, then it was very "vincible") one-dimensional? (ok with this one you could argue its sole motivation is feeding but you'd be hard pressed to find human antagonists with more than one as well) and as for red spikes... only the capital ships had them, they were called infection nodes, spike as non functional elements only on the mothership (if you count the prong-type things on the front of it as spikes of course) and as for sounding evil? never did sound evil to me, it sounded more like an disturbing reflection of a primal desire all humans have to me.

Nanaki
3rd Feb 13, 3:52 PM
Saren? You mean a uni-dimensional tool who realised too late that Soverign was using him? I cannot say about Baldur's gate anything as I've never played it


Which still made hm a much more interesting villian than Soverign and the Reapers. At the very least, Saren had beleifs and motivation and while he was definatly manipulated by Sovereign and the Reapers, you could still see a living, breathing character behind it.



Also last time I checked neither the Higarans nor the Vaygr were human nor were they even related species between them, still have human traits


Technically, the Vaygr, Hiigarans, and virtually every other race sans the Bentusi were pretty much just humans that were 'called' different races but actually werent. Even with the exceptions, such as the Turanic Raiders (they breathed a liquid enviornment) they were still mostly human. The only truly alien race would be the Bentusi, whom are never shown. A vast majority of the races did not even classify as rubber forhead aliens.



the kilrathi of the Wing Commander movie were unidimensional antagonists who were so sure they could win that they jumped their ships 1 at a time into a meatgrinder.


I agree the Kilrathi in the wing commander movie were bad antagonists, but they were not human.



Actually the reasons stated in the first two Mass Effects make sense, the 3rd really broke it to be honest as it relied too much on flawed cyclical logic to work. And comparing the battle of the citadel to an actual battle is laughable because of the fleets that went up against Sovereign only the human one had any idea what the were doing and lets not forget that the citadel fleet itself got mostly wiped out by the geth fleet not Sovereign, if you look closer you'll see that the casualties inflicted by Sovereign directly number in the few dozens true but for a first battle it's actually not bad considering it was an ambush and Sov had a geth fleet as backup.


Even the reasons stated in the first two mass effects make no sense. Mass Effect 1 basically told you "It is beyond the comprehension of your puny mind", the second suggested that biological creatures were harvested en masse to create more reapers, which also does not make sense as, well, if they needed to harvest lifeforms to build more of them, why dont they just set up a vat-grown production line and get their bioforms that way. Thats not even considering that they genocided most sentient races when they did their 'purges'.



Beast indestructible?(from the first missions you pushed it back quite easily) super-invincible?(only until you developed counters to infection, then it was very "vincible") one-dimensional? (ok with this one you could argue its sole motivation is feeding but you'd be hard pressed to find human antagonists with more than one as well) and as for red spikes... only the capital ships had them, they were called infection nodes, spike as non functional elements only on the mothership (if you count the prong-type things on the front of it as spikes of course) and as for sounding evil? never did sound evil to me, it sounded more like an disturbing reflection of a primal desire all humans have to me.


Yes, the beast was virtually indestructable, they basically shat on every power in the galaxy and only the equally ubermensch Somtaaw could stop them. It was like your classic superhero comic book, villian buttfucks everything he goes up against until the designated superhero, also with superpowers, stands up against him. As for the red spikes, you do realize that virtually EVERY beast ship had the red/black fleshy 'EVUL' texture. The penchant for spikes applied to ALL their capital ships. The mothership especially.

Irika
3rd Feb 13, 6:56 PM
So let me get this straight... to you everyone in HW was human sans the bentusi and the Beast? Oh lord... well let me put it to you this way

Turanic Raider:
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk417/Oligarth/raider.jpg
Kilrathi:
http://static.wcnews.com/wcpedia/images/thumb/Cm-bhurak.png/200px-Cm-bhurak.png
Bentusi:
http://forums.relicnews.com/images/avatars/HW/TheBentusi.jpg
Gonna have to say that the last 2 look more human than your idea of "human", not saying all 3 are not human antagonists/protagonistis/supporting species(?) just that your idea is awfully skewed.

Also the Beast was virtually "unstoppable" because A) the infection flared up initially in a very fragmented and contested area of space and had time to fester there B)for part of the campaign it is actually ignored as either news of its existence didn't reach the core worlds of the larger empires for whatever reasons (I bet that the Beast did not allow survivors to escape, see what happened to the Caal-shto when it tried to warn Higara) or it was woefully underestimated C) by the time the threat became known the Beast had went from localized infection to galactic pandemic level strength with hundreds of subverted hulls under its control ergo by the time hunting fleets had been assembled the dents they'd be making in the Beast's ranks would be minor (see the fleet hunting the Clee-san). The Somtaaw were not ubermeschen, all they were was just the right group of people in the right place... ya know, sort of like fleet command and the military/support fleets under their control in HW1.

The Reapers harvested organics not to build other Reapers in the strictest sense, it was more to give a Reaper life, by what I know processed colonists were turned basically into what constituted the hardware of the Reaper's AI core, the shell was made from normal alloys and such.

Timmaigh!
4th Feb 13, 12:39 PM
Because Dragon Age is the only other game Bioware ever made. I was more specifically referring to Jon Irenicus from Baldurs Gate 2, and even Saren from Mass Effect 1.



I know exactly what im talking about. First game, the Reaper just tells you that its desires are 'beyond your comprehension', second game, it shows a Reaper under construction using the flesh of thousands of humans, third game, the Reaper explains to you that its because of the inevitable conflict between man and machine. The reasons change from game to game, and none of them really make any sense whatsoever. Still doesnt change the fact that the Reapers are pretty fucking close to Villian sue (you needed the entire fucking citadel fleet, plus a human fleet, to kill one, and that was pretty much the classic definition of 'phyrric victory', not even Keepers from HW2 were that tough) and are as uninteresting as villians possibly get.


Wut? Wing Commander's antagonists were not human at all, just that the costuming sucked so badly they had to hide it with shitty lighting and lots of smoke. Read up on the Kilrathi (http://www.wcnews.com/wcpedia/Kilrathi) sometime.


The human antagonists were bad, yes, but they werent horrible. They were still, to borrow a phrase, human, and unlike the Beast were not some kind of indestructable, super-invincible, one-dimensional villian sue with a single-track motivation and a penchant for red, black, spikes, and sounding as evil as possible.

Wow, quoting works! Thanks for the advices.

IMHO the coolest antagonists ever in a sci-fi game were the Shivans of the Conflict Freespace. Especially i love how there remained kind of enigma, to this day nobody really knows wtf they were up to. There were some hypotheses about their motives, but i dont recall anything conclusive. Bottom line, they managed to be so cool without saying a single line :-). As far as Homeworld villains go, none of them were anything special, neither Taiidans nor Vaygr...cant say much about the Beast, as never finished Cataclysm, but that is perhaps kinda self-explanatory, i mean, if they were so interesting, i would probably want to play the game further... anyway i think the only races in HW universe with some kind of character to them were Kushans/Hiigarans and Bentusi...the others may have been more closely described/introduced in some kind of extended lore or background story, i have not read yet, but right in the game, they were just regular bad guys. As far as i am concerned the only Taiidan motive/ task was to prevent you from reaching Hiigara and the Vaygr were basically all about Makaan and his pseudo-religious agenda...there was nothing more to them.

That said, i prefer/red Homeworld to Freespace immensely, as i like RTS games way more than shooters. I hold both "universes" in equally high regard though, each of them had a specific distinctive atmosphere and i think each of them would be an awesome setting for a kick-ass space opera.

BTW, the Vasari of SoaSE have way more common with Shivans and Reapers than the Zerg.

Nanaki
4th Feb 13, 4:55 PM
Gonna have to say that the last 2 look more human than your idea of "human", not saying all 3 are not human antagonists/protagonistis/supporting species(?) just that your idea is awfully skewed.


Wait wut? I had a completely different idea of how the Turanics looked, I stand corrected.



Also the Beast was virtually "unstoppable" because A) the infection flared up initially in a very fragmented and contested area of space and had time to fester there B)for part of the campaign it is actually ignored as either news of its existence didn't reach the core worlds of the larger empires for whatever reasons (I bet that the Beast did not allow survivors to escape, see what happened to the Caal-shto when it tried to warn Higara) or it was woefully underestimated C) by the time the threat became known the Beast had went from localized infection to galactic pandemic level strength with hundreds of subverted hulls under its control ergo by the time hunting fleets had been assembled the dents they'd be making in the Beast's ranks would be minor (see the fleet hunting the Clee-san). The Somtaaw were not ubermeschen, all they were was just the right group of people in the right place... ya know, sort of like fleet command and the military/support fleets under their control in HW1.


Again, the Somtaaw were ubermenschen because apparently only they could come up with the methods of actually stopping the infection. Anybody could defeat the Taiidan, infact, the reason why the Kushan were not completely destroyed at the end of Homeworld 1 was because of the intervention of the Bentusi and other races. In Cataclysm, the Somtaaw, and only the Somtaaw, could even harm the Beast. All the other races, the Bentusi, the Kushan, the Taiidan, the Turanics, were simply props for the Beast to knock down.



IMHO the coolest antagonists ever in a sci-fi game were the Shivans of the Conflict Freespace. Especially i love how there remained kind of enigma, to this day nobody really knows wtf they were up to. There were some hypotheses about their motives, but i dont recall anything conclusive. Bottom line, they managed to be so cool without saying a single line :-). As far as Homeworld villains go, none of them were anything special, neither Taiidans nor Vaygr...cant say much about the Beast, as never finished Cataclysm, but that is perhaps kinda self-explanatory, i mean, if they were so interesting, i would probably want to play the game further... anyway i think the only races in HW universe with some kind of character to them were Kushans/Hiigarans and Bentusi...the others may have been more closely described/introduced in some kind of extended lore or background story, i have not read yet, but right in the game, they were just regular bad guys. As far as i am concerned the only Taiidan motive/ task was to prevent you from reaching Hiigara and the Vaygr were basically all about Makaan and his pseudo-religious agenda...there was nothing more to them.


Regarding the Shivans... they rank up in the '????' catigory of antagonists, a special category created for antagonists whom are complete blank slates and sort of just exist for you to have something to shoot at. You are right in that you really did not know who they were and what they wanted, but thats very much a double-edged sword as, while it allows you to avoid making really horrible antagonists like the Beast and the Reapers, it also does not let you create a really good antagonist either. Given, they are a great antagonist to create if you know your bad at writing, in the "Better for people to think you are a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" sort of way.




BTW, the Vasari of SoaSE have way more common with Shivans and Reapers than the Zerg.


Well, except the Vasari's motives are not really a mystery, and their only resemblance to the Zerg is in their aesthetics. Infact, the whole Terran/Protoss/Zerg dynamic in SoSE is completely aesthetic, the Advent are simply humans with psionic powers, and the Vasari are refugees desperately fleeing an unknown foe.

nadarko
4th Feb 13, 5:33 PM
So...how's the project doing?

Stingra
4th Feb 13, 7:06 PM
Most of that art is just concept art. There's no confirmation on if they are meant to represent any of the races of Homeworld, after all, the Vaygr were supposed to be gas-masked faced slendermen with three fingers on each limb.

For all intents and purposes, minus the Bentusi, I have always and will continue to express old fan belief that humanity and it's many culturally distinct groups are the dominant sentient species (if any others actually exist) in the Homeworld universe.

Timmaigh!
5th Feb 13, 7:56 AM
Wait wut? I had a completely different idea of how the Turanics looked, I stand corrected.



Again, the Somtaaw were ubermenschen because apparently only they could come up with the methods of actually stopping the infection. Anybody could defeat the Taiidan, infact, the reason why the Kushan were not completely destroyed at the end of Homeworld 1 was because of the intervention of the Bentusi and other races. In Cataclysm, the Somtaaw, and only the Somtaaw, could even harm the Beast. All the other races, the Bentusi, the Kushan, the Taiidan, the Turanics, were simply props for the Beast to knock down.



Regarding the Shivans... they rank up in the '????' catigory of antagonists, a special category created for antagonists whom are complete blank slates and sort of just exist for you to have something to shoot at. You are right in that you really did not know who they were and what they wanted, but thats very much a double-edged sword as, while it allows you to avoid making really horrible antagonists like the Beast and the Reapers, it also does not let you create a really good antagonist either. Given, they are a great antagonist to create if you know your bad at writing, in the "Better for people to think you are a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" sort of way.



Well, except the Vasari's motives are not really a mystery, and their only resemblance to the Zerg is in their aesthetics. Infact, the whole Terran/Protoss/Zerg dynamic in SoSE is completely aesthetic, the Advent are simply humans with psionic powers, and the Vasari are refugees desperately fleeing an unknown foe.

Well, it seems to me, that you expect gaming characters, and perhaps game stories overall, to be on par with cinematography. Based on my personal observation, that wont work. Where game can run away with a B-movie like story and bland one-dimensional characters and still be considered to be the "cream of the crop", the movies/tv shows cant. Simply, what works for games, does not work for movies (and vice-versa).

Regarding Vasari, i was actually talking about their aesthetics. Its true, some of their craft has insectoid design, but their hulls are metallic black, combined by default with red team color...basically the same as Shivans and partially like Reapers. Their ships are not organic beasts like Zerg units and as you said, gameplay-wise they are nothing like Zerg at all.

Nanaki
5th Feb 13, 8:25 AM
Well, it seems to me, that you expect gaming characters, and perhaps game stories overall, to be on par with cinematography. Based on my personal observation, that wont work. Where game can run away with a B-movie like story and bland one-dimensional characters and still be considered to be the "cream of the crop", the movies/tv shows cant. Simply, what works for games, does not work for movies (and vice-versa).


You are mistaking me for Irika. I dont expect a masterpiece story from every game. I dont mind if the characters are bland, or even if they are blank entirely like the Shivans. It hardly detracted me from my enjoyment of Freespace. The two primary things that annoy the crap out of me are:

1: Gaming companies getting lauded for stories that could, at best, be considered above average. Supergiant Games and Relic (at least HW1 Relic) actually deserved the accolates they got in story. Bioware? Not so much.

2: Characters/Factions/Races/etc that are in the So bad its horrible (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DarthWiki/SoBadItsHorrible) catigory. I dont expect quality writing from games, but I dont expect an eye/earsore so bad that it makes the usual cavalcade of mediocrity look good.



Regarding Vasari, i was actually talking about their aesthetics. Its true, some of their craft has insectoid design, but their hulls are metallic black, combined by default with red team color...basically the same as Shivans and partially like Reapers. Their ships are not organic beasts like Zerg units and as you said, gameplay-wise they are nothing like Zerg at all.

Again, though, my original point is that every game feels like it needs a gunmetal grey brick race, a shiny, rounded advanced looking race, and a black/red with spikes race and w/e. This is where the whole Terran-Protoss-Zerg dynamic comes from (note that while Starcraft was the game that popularized it, it was not the first game with it, I know it goes all the way back to Aliens vs Predator and possibly even further back than that). You see it in virtually every sci-fi game with 3 races/factions, even if the races/factions themselves have absolutly nothing in common with the archetypes they are based off. Even Freespace fails to get away from this with the Terran-Vasudan-Shivan dynamic. That should give you some idea of how omnipresent this particular trope is in the genre. You can argue all day that X property does something different, but thats like a fantasy genre saying its elves and orcs are different and to be fair there are a large number that do take a different look at them, it doesnt change the fact that they are still elves and orcs and virtually omnipresent in the fantasy genre since Tolkien.

RadiantMonolith
5th Feb 13, 10:10 AM
So...how's the project doing?

12k with 30 hours to go or so. It's terribly mismanaged with a severe lack of updates and so on.

As I see it, the only benefit of this project is to get inside info on who will acquire the Homeworld IP during the legacy IP auction.

Timmaigh!
5th Feb 13, 11:41 AM
You are mistaking me for Irika. I dont expect a masterpiece story from every game. I dont mind if the characters are bland, or even if they are blank entirely like the Shivans. It hardly detracted me from my enjoyment of Freespace. The two primary things that annoy the crap out of me are:

1: Gaming companies getting lauded for stories that could, at best, be considered above average. Supergiant Games and Relic (at least HW1 Relic) actually deserved the accolates they got in story. Bioware? Not so much.

2: Characters/Factions/Races/etc that are in the So bad its horrible (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DarthWiki/SoBadItsHorrible) catigory. I dont expect quality writing from games, but I dont expect an eye/earsore so bad that it makes the usual cavalcade of mediocrity look good.



Again, though, my original point is that every game feels like it needs a gunmetal grey brick race, a shiny, rounded advanced looking race, and a black/red with spikes race and w/e. This is where the whole Terran-Protoss-Zerg dynamic comes from (note that while Starcraft was the game that popularized it, it was not the first game with it, I know it goes all the way back to Aliens vs Predator and possibly even further back than that). You see it in virtually every sci-fi game with 3 races/factions, even if the races/factions themselves have absolutly nothing in common with the archetypes they are based off. Even Freespace fails to get away from this with the Terran-Vasudan-Shivan dynamic. That should give you some idea of how omnipresent this particular trope is in the genre. You can argue all day that X property does something different, but thats like a fantasy genre saying its elves and orcs are different and to be fair there are a large number that do take a different look at them, it doesnt change the fact that they are still elves and orcs and virtually omnipresent in the fantasy genre since Tolkien.

Hehe, its possible i mistook you for Irika, you were arguing about this over last couple of days, so i finally got it mixed up. My apology :-)

I can see, where you come from with those racial archetypes, i just dont think its that bad. Anyway, so do you complain here purely about aesthetics? Clearly its important category/factor, but the racial background/ the way they play is more important than the looks, is it not? And in case of SoaSE, the races pretty unique and diverse in this regard, i dont really see any connection between TEC of SoaSE and Terrans of StarCraft beyond their gun metal brick-like looks. And i dont really mind the certain similarities between Vasari and Shivans, after all it gives me a chance to play with Shivan wannabes in a RTS game and that is something i always wanted... cause Shivans were cool, alien, enigmatic and all the usual stuff. Simply diverse enough compared to regular Terrans. They have actually one more thing in common, both are the masters of the hyperspace (or phase-space/subspace to be precise)...

BTW, when we talk about these faction stereotypes, do you have a favourite one? I think in general in 2-side scenario i prefer the alternative faction to the default one (Vaygr, Allies of Red Alert) and in 3-side game the third, alien, high tech, evil faction...be it Protoss of SC, Celareon of Conquest Frontier Wars, Vasari of Sins, Scrin of Tiberium Wars, Cuotl of Rise of Legends, etc... not really fan of Zerg-like and low-tech factions, neither boring default human ones like GDI for example. The only exception i can think of is US faction of CnC Generals, they were i assume the base faction, but still the high-tech one, therefore my preference...

Nanaki
5th Feb 13, 12:01 PM
The problem is not so much that the stereotypes exist, it is the fact that theres no alternatives. Even the Fantasy genre, as saturated as it is with Orcs and Elves, usually goes out of its way to provide at minimum one or two races that are somewhat original or at the very least dont tread the overbeaten stereotypes. Sci-fi, on the other hand, is just the rediculous stereotypes and nothing but. It is why I am lamenting that fantasy seems to have the better aliens nowdays.

Sparki
5th Feb 13, 1:35 PM
Well, one cannot dodge every single trope bullet. There will always be something to bother somebody - but I'm sure that is already clear. One thing is that there has to be a motive of something. You know the dig with Good vs Bad, evil's this trying to claim goodguy's that. Plotdrivers.


I for one am just happy something is happening, and hopefully, that that somebody who gets the IP will ffs do something physical with it rather than let it sit. IPs like this one are of course a difficult piece of work, but in all honesty, I really hope we can see more this time.


Heh, wish some of us writer-types could get some non-exclusive IP rights for the universe alone. I for one am no expert on anything particular with HW, but it is clear to many of us that it should have been just as big as Starwars and StarTrek, BSG - whatever. I've never seen so much leeway of great possibilities and potentials be wasted just like that, but as usual, it is the fans that keep things going. I just wish we had a bit of that "nuts" thing going, where TV series Jericho had one more season going to at least round up a few cliffhangers (only to end up at the next one).

Back on topic, sorta.
We unfortunately did not get much of details on the actual foes; minus Taiidans as somewhere, most of it was explained in the tech manuals "and other canon sources". Vaygr however, still remain a mystery as much as the Beast, despite how much it is hated as an antagonist. The Trinity Cores/Hyperspace Cores fueled Makaans efforts, but other than being a strange baldy man with an interesting attitude, we got little to nothing on the true philosophies of Vaygr. Somewhere, it is like with the Kadeshi, the good ol' K-word. We see a lot but much remains obscured.
Was it good or bad? Somewhere, keeping things secret is good.

Nonetheless, these open holes offered much space for fans to fill in the blanks. I'm not the best in that field, but it is damn fun - almost wanting to just go original myself.

I'm swaying away.
I think one particular thing that is missing in HW is the situation of where neither the "goodguys" nor the "badguys" are that evil/good.
I simply forgot the name of this one scifi anime I did not see yet for the mentioned reason, but it also had various nations in conflict - but the key essential part of the anime was that there was no good or badguy. I think if HW could bend its current antagonists a bit (minus Beast), things could really get even more interesting. But in the end, that is just wishful thinking from a fanwriter, so I will be going back into my corner and cry a bit - then write about it.


The intentions of SaveHW org is good. I wish we had seen this much MUCH earlier. Maybe this time we can see something happen. I don't care if this anticipated HW3 would go down burning once it would be out. Just the fact that it would be coming out from equatorial hells is worth holding. Neither AVGN nor Angry Joe or Armake21 would hold me back if were the crappiest, buggiest thing ever made.

But let's be optimisitic.
There are a lot of fields where the game could expand. Starting small, little games here and there, just to get noticed again. To be honest, I think going a big AAA title is a bit too fast. So one could mixes of some action adventure, the actual RTS and whatever else may suit the world. Granted, it won't be ours so we just have wait and sip some tea.

but hmm.
36 hrs left, some $12k of $50k so far.
Still good to see that a lot of loyal peeps are still there.
Would fund this too, but my skills for deviant art commissions are lacking. :D

Enkal
7th Feb 13, 2:11 AM
So still no news on the Homeworld IP?

Mac_Bug
7th Feb 13, 10:58 AM
I would expect THQ to be rather busy at transitioning the studios sold

Croaxleigh
7th Feb 13, 11:05 AM
They're now saying that the $13k they made is enough to get started on the auction process. They don't know when the back title auction will be, but they plan on bidding as their funds will allow and hope that if nothing else they'll find out where the Homeworld IP goes.

Sparki
7th Feb 13, 12:53 PM
Isn't that going to be difficult with them shouting out loud their rough limit?
Whatever may be, let's just hope decent people are willing to grab the IP :).

Nanaki
7th Feb 13, 12:59 PM
Isn't that going to be difficult with them shouting out loud their rough limit?


depends on if anyone intends to outbid them.

Croaxleigh
7th Feb 13, 1:29 PM
It also depends on whether or not they actually end up involved in the auction. From what I've seen, the only thing they're going by on when it occurs is a vague statement made by the former CEO last week.

Honestly, while I hope that someone picks up the Homeworld IP, I kind of hope that it's not these guys. While it's good that they're fans, they seem to have loftier goals than their experience (their company makes promotional apps for businesses, so it's hard to tell exactly how much experience they actually have... but they come across as rather unorganized and "young", for lack of a better term) and resources seem likely to let them reach.

Croaxleigh
4th Mar 13, 12:52 PM
Aaand they're back. This time on Kickstarter.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/teampix/homeworld-touch-ios-android-and-homeworld-3-pc-mac

Avetorian
4th Mar 13, 6:37 PM
Oh boy, these guys seem kinda shady to me. I'd vote for beamdog over these guys any day.

Croaxleigh
4th Mar 13, 8:32 PM
I don't know that I'd call them shady, per se... more inexperienced. I think that they honestly want to continue the Homeworld franchise, but I get the feeling that they overestimate their ability to succeed in the auction (given that all of their Kickstarter rewards make the assumption that they'll be successful in getting the IP) and in creating a game for the masses (since they primarily make small promotional games for businesses and such.)

'Course, they could be shady as all get-out for all I know. :p

Of the two, I'd definitely say that Beamdog instills more confidence than these guys, even if it's just in creating "Homeworld Touch."

ÜberJumper
6th Mar 13, 5:28 PM
They have no idea that it's going to probably go for mid-six figures.

Auction starts on the 1st, finishes on the 15th.

Croaxleigh
6th Mar 13, 8:14 PM
I imagine it's at least in part because they're used to working on small projects and promo games. It might skew their perception a bit, kind of like how a teenager getting a job at a fast food joint for a quarter over minimum wage might have trouble picturing getting paid $15 to $20 an hour in an office job. When you're used to all of your projects being lower-budget pieces of fluff to help sell whatever the customer is promoting, picturing an IP for a "forgotten" game being worth hundreds of thousands of dollars could be a stretch. They're being pretty coy about how much they actually have to offer (insofar as they haven't actually said how much they have available to put toward it right now; they said they've gotten "additional funds" in addition to the IndieGoGo money, but refuse to say how much)... that leads me to think that they're afraid that they'll lose support if folks realize exactly how little they're going into it with. They have vague goals, a Kickstarter campaign to try and raise more money that's currently trending at missing its goal by several thousand dollars, and give off this vibe that they think they're the only company out there interested in the Homeworld IP.

RadiantMonolith
13th Mar 13, 1:48 PM
I don't like that they are using the old concept art as part of their pitch.

At least people are going to get their money back after the auction.

Solarmech
13th Mar 13, 2:52 PM
Well, we HOPE they get their money back.

Croaxleigh
14th Mar 13, 4:56 PM
I don't like how there's very little mention of how they're raising money to participate in an auction; there's a lot of talk about "Homeworld Touch", and a little talk about "Homeworld 3", but very little info about the purchase of the IP itself or their chances of getting it.

Avetorian
15th Mar 13, 8:57 AM
I wonder where they are gonna get the rest of the other 4.5 mill for their auction funds lol. Yeah they are using old concept art which is not a way to gain new interest imo. Not only that we don't even have a clue of how they intend to make Homeworld 3, what their game design concepts are etc.

Tristan Sjet
18th Mar 13, 12:55 PM
Holy crap the kickstarter comments on this are terrible. Look at this:






I have a request. PLZ contract Heidi Ernest (HW1 Fleet Command) for voice acting. Anybody else agrees with me?


If he's alive, yes, that would be an honestly awesome if you could.

Also whoever does Fleet Command for the Kuun-Lan. He gets it down pat.


I'm utterly baffled.

Avetorian
18th Mar 13, 4:28 PM
Hey I liked Kuun-lan's FC voice acting, another issue aside, I'm worried these guys might actually meet their kickstarter.

Mokino
18th Mar 13, 4:33 PM
I highly doubt they will be able to secure the IP for 50k. That's quite the lowball figure.

Tristan Sjet
18th Mar 13, 10:46 PM
Hey I liked Kuun-lan's FC voice acting, another issue aside, I'm worried these guys might actually meet their kickstarter.

Oh, I liked them too, but that's not the stupid thing; how the hell do you not notice Heidi Ernest is a woman? Or think "Karan sjet (AKA fleet command) = voiced by a man"?

I suppose to pledge on this thing in the first place is not a good sign, but that's really basic "I played the game for five minutes" stuff.

Avetorian
18th Mar 13, 11:12 PM
It doesn't make any sense, I almost wish someone would warn these guys on kickstarter that this is a highly unrealistic goal, its not as if Team Pixel has the funds for the game as far as we know, I wish they'd provide some proof that they can achieve this with the amount they require, or that this is a test to see what interest still exist in the Homeworld franchise.



how the hell do you not notice Heidi Ernest is a woman? Or think "Karan sjet (AKA fleet command) = voiced by a man"?

Good point, I can't believe I missed that lol.

Solarmech
19th Mar 13, 2:19 AM
Oh, I liked them too, but that's not the stupid thing; how the hell do you not notice Heidi Ernest is a woman? Or think "Karan sjet (AKA fleet command) = voiced by a man"?


I HOPE that was just a typing error. sm

overmind2000
19th Mar 13, 8:30 AM
Typos are a pain for KS because you can't edit your comments after making them.

That said I also share concerns about this project, even more so because they used the flexible funding method for their Indigogo campaign; but the campaign itself shouldn't be structured as such because even if they could do it for the amount that they state, if they fail to reach it its a failed project.

It's very odd and whilst I hope that it all ends well, I can't shake the feeling that it won't.

Croaxleigh
19th Mar 13, 8:35 PM
I highly doubt they will be able to secure the IP for 50k. That's quite the lowball figure.
Even when combined with the money they raised from IndieGogo and the supposed extra money that they've raised elsewhere (which they won't tell how much of there is) it's unlikely that they'll even come close to breaking $100,000 (my guess is they won't even have $75,000.) "Real" studios will likely eat them for breakfast.

FriendlyFire
19th Mar 13, 10:50 PM
Am I alone just waiting for the announcement that they somehow ended up spending all the money they've gathered? "Legal fees" or something, even without getting the IP in return.

Croaxleigh
19th Mar 13, 11:02 PM
I was thinking about that earlier. They were supposed to refund after the IndieGogo campaign fell through, then the Kickstarter came up. In all likelihood it's going to be funded, though they've been pretty light on describing how they're going to acquire the IP (on IndieGogo they mentioned auctions and such several times, on Kickstarter they make it sound like they already have a deal worked out and just need money to pay for it.) I wouldn't be surprised to either see them take forever in refunding what's left after "legal fees", or to pull a "We didn't get the IP, but we're still developing our original game so unless you specifically request the money back we'll give you that and you'll love it I promise!" maneuver. The longer this goes on, the shittier the vibes are that I'm picking up from TeamPixel's posts in the campaign.

Avetorian
23rd Mar 13, 9:08 PM
oh boy, looks like they reached their goal. If they seriously acquire the IP, then I will be shocked. Strange things can happen, but I just can't see them acquiring homeworld for under 500k (Minimum) I just don't see it happening.

Croaxleigh
23rd Mar 13, 9:56 PM
As I've watched the campaign(s) go on, I've gradually started hoping more and more that they don't win the auction. It seems like there are a lot of backers who don't really understand that TeamPixel is just raising money to go toward an auction and are likely making promises that they can't keep... and the leader of the team is taking pretty much no action to clear up any misconceptions surrounding the nature of the fundraiser. And when you add in the fact that they're expecting to release Homeworld 3 next year (after finishing Homeworld Touch) I don't think that they have much in the way of realistic goals for the project.

They've apparently had a few backers pull out or reduce their bids, too, since the total was a hundred dollars or so higher an hour or so ago than it is now.

NovaBurn
24th Mar 13, 12:03 AM
http://www.controlcommandescape.com/articles/beware-the-homeworld-3-kickstarter/

They aren't going to get it and frankly are not to be trusted with the IP nor be allowed anywhere near it. I appreciate their enthusiasm but they are an unproven, untested group that just got smart enough to throw together a kickstarter at the right time to draw attention to their cause.

For starters, the lowest winning bid went for the prior THQ IP auctions was for the Homefront IP which sold for around $540,000 dollars. So good luck getting even remotely close just trying to bid for the IP itself. This isn't even considering how much actual development costs are going be needed assuming they even get the IP. What about getting distribution, production, testing, salaries, timeframe til release, and hell who knows what else. Game development is not cheap. Unless you are making an indie game like FTL, or something else that is relatively simple, the costs will be big. What if they fail to deliver anything. Assuming they get the IP, what happens if it bombs out and nothing happens?


While their motives may be of good intentions, what have they done in gaming that warrants them the opportunity to take the Homeworld reigns? I'd have more confidence if these guys had have prior game releases that have come to good success and acclaim in the RTS and/or science fiction gaming genre, unfortunately that is not they case. These guys are web developers and mobile app guys. Game design is an entirely different beast, just ask any game dev or watch the thousands of behind the scenes work that has gone into other games on YouTube. These are massive undertakings that take years with large teams. These guys are basically unknown/newcomers to the gaming community and are coming from nowhere with grandiose ideas for all these things they want to do to the franchise, (mobile platforms, etc). I dislike this approach because as far as I see it they are coming at it as fans wanting their HW3, not independent objective developers that want to revitalize the series.

I love the franchise, the universe, the art direction from Rob and JAK, everything. Hell I have an/the original ink drawing of this hanging above my mantle in my apartment:
http://images.wikia.com/homeworld/images/1/1f/RC_joystick_Kushan_Mothership.jpg

This game has probably had more of an impact on various facets of my life than I'd like to admit. Would I like to see something in this universe again? Hell yes I would, but I would want it done right or not done at all. I side with Norse on this quite heavily. Either let the franchise fall into the sands of gaming history and leave it as is without blemish to ruin its memory, or give it back to Rob C and the rest at Blackbird. They created that beauty, and frankly have the experience and vision to do something with it if they see the opportunity. Should it not get into their hands, I would hope that the company that does get it has a developer that has the experience and talent to breath life into it again.

FriendlyFire
24th Mar 13, 8:47 AM
I'm very much fearful that if they get their hands on the IP, all they'll do is whore it out on what they know best: mobile and web stuff. Homeworld deserves better than that. I don't want them to pull a Syndicate on us.

Thankfully their budgets are grossly below the necessary amount for getting the IP, source code and development costs covered, so unless they have a hidden angel investor ready to put up 10x what they've accrued so far, I think we're safe. It's likely that they'll just waste the KS money on whatever they think they can, though.

Avetorian
24th Mar 13, 1:17 PM
What surprises me the most is that Kick starter even allowed this, it's almost like asking someone "Hey give me money so I can buy a new Ferrari" The logic behind this stuns me, and the fact KS allowed this stuns me more, and the fact that it actually succeeded makes me even more stunned.

How can those people not see where this is going? Besides what's so good about homeworld:touch anyway "This is the way the game was meant to be played" Get real, I don't want to be playing on a small screen with my fingers getting in the way of the action most of the time, it just ruins the view, your fingers will be taking up a large portion of the screen and it just kills it, one of the most amazing things about homeworld was the view of the large and small ships engaging in huge conflicts, along with the nebulae in the background.

You simply can't replace that with "touch" A lot of people will disagree with me on this probably. However as a fan of the series myself, One of the things I enjoyed the most was the view of the battles themselves a small screen with touch controls just ruins it.

overmind2000
24th Mar 13, 2:39 PM
Avetorian KS exists very much like the Post Office notice board. It doesn't investigate if you can or can't achieve your goals within your estimated time and budget proposals. All it does is provide the online "notice board advertising space" for you to place your ad. and communicate with your backers upon.

It's very clearly stated that assessing what you do and don't back is left right up to the backers - if you want to back it you do and if you don't you don't.

They do have some restrictions of course and there is some policing as well as a TC for refunds for failed projects - however the best protections are really things people have to do themselves in researching if a company is worth their investment. Sadly this can mean that less bright people or those with more money than sense can back "stupid things". KS has the only bonus that most people are only backing with their disposable income and are not expecting an income return upon their investment anyway so it shouldn't "destroy" any people although it can well shatter dreams (and leave a big hole in your wallet if you back something seriously that fails of course).

Avetorian
24th Mar 13, 8:08 PM
Overmind: Yeah I can understand that. Regardless it surprises me still just amazed at how many of those people didn't do their research, like what the IP cost THQ to even buy homeworld from Sierra in the first place. Lol, well I think there is a definite shit storm for team pixel on the horizon, there's probably other more well established companies who will be fighting for that I.P. as well.

Croaxleigh
25th Mar 13, 10:29 AM
Overmind: Kickstarter doesn't investigate, no, but I'm still surprised that they allowed it. It's not a "project", per se... it's fundraising for an auction. That campaign is a large part of the image Kickstarter's trying to avoid, especially in the technology section; they want projects that have a clear end that produces something, and rewards that are a key part of what's produced. (That's why they used IndieGoGo for the first campaign, because even they said Kickstarter wouldn't allow it.) So either nobody reported it, or Kickstarter decided that it wasn't worth it to cancel the campaign.

Also, this comment from their Kickstarter page amused me a bit.


Well, I while doubt that you'll be able to make HW3 on good level (no offense - it takes a LOT of money to make such a story with all this special effects, voicing, cut-scenes, etc. No matter how talented you are).

It wasn't a good idea to bundle all this together - IP acquiring is fishy enough (especially as you haven't mentioned how you are going to handle this IP in future), HW3 promises for 50K don't help at all.

I'd rather separate things out - License + Touch (who needs it, really?), HD remake and HW3. If you'll succeed with License and HD remake then, maybe, you'll be able to gather enough funds for HW3.

And, BTW, calling your campaign "Save homeworld" isn't fair enough - we don't know if your handling of IP will "save" it or ruin it forever.

But I do hope for the best.

Croaxleigh
25th Mar 13, 8:03 PM
Apparently, Trent Oster (the guy from Beamdog who tweeted about registering for the THQ auction, saying "I wanna buy me some Homeworld") had someone tweet a response begging him to secure the bid over the TeamPixel guys. His response (which I'm sure many here will agree with): "50 grand won't buy the Homeworld IP. Throw another zero in there and the bidding might start"

Langy
25th Mar 13, 8:06 PM
Well, that's a bit of a hint to other bidders as to what he might be willing to pay. Still, good news;)

Croaxleigh
25th Mar 13, 8:22 PM
He also said that if they win the IP they'll be very active with it. Whether that's a good thing or not remains to be seen, but at least it means there's at least one (serious) bidder who wants to do something with it and not just let it sit on a shelf.

ÜberJumper
25th Mar 13, 9:21 PM
The two groups that have publically thrown their hat in the ring are team pixel and beamdogs. Team Pixel won't get it (although their latest update after they hit their kickstarter goal mentioned private investment) with the kickstarter and indiegogo money.

I really want to see what Team Pixel does when they don't get the IP.

There will be other bidders, they're just not publicly known.

Croaxleigh
25th Mar 13, 9:29 PM
They'd mentioned private investment after the IndieGoGo campaign, too. I honestly don't see them having that much from private sources, though, and they've been horribly tight-lipped about how much they supposedly received. My guess is that all told they'll have somewhere around $75,000 going in, or maybe as high as $100,000 (though I doubt it.) I can't fathom anyone trusting them with enough money to make them a serious bidder for the IP, though. Beamdog seems committed for $500,000+, and others who might be interested are certainly going to bring their checkbooks. At best I'd say that all TeamPixel has done is potentially remind a few people that the Homeworld IP exists and is up for auction.

I'm pretty interested in seeing what happens post-auction, too. My guess is they pitch whatever demo they've been working on as being "like Homeworld" and letting people stay in to receive it (or giving them the option to specifically request a refund), because otherwise they'll be eating a lot of service fees.

Lautaro
26th Mar 13, 6:30 AM
This annoys me, whether it's naivety or a scam, this will only hurt Kickstarter.

Patman42x
26th Mar 13, 8:57 AM
This annoys me, whether it's naivety or a scam, this will only hurt Kickstarter.

Not necessarily. It will just teach some people to double-check where they put their money. Any developer with a good plan, experience, etc. shouldn't be afflicted by this. Plus this Homeworld Kickstarter isn't such a huge deal, I doubt that many people know about it. It's not exactly the hottest topic on the web.

Now if say Double Fine would go: lol, we spent all your money on building a giant Tim Schaefer statue, now that would hurt Kickstarter. And Double Fine. A lot.

Yankov
26th Mar 13, 10:49 AM
i don't get the idea that someone could have won the auction for $1 as no one else turned up.. surely there's such a thing as starting price and some sort of minimum where they'll simply call the thing off

Patman42x
26th Mar 13, 10:51 AM
not to mention that they were talking about the Volition Team, which is a completely different thing from an IP. Buying a team is associated with further costs, whereas you can just buy an IP and let it rot if it so pleases you

Croaxleigh
26th Mar 13, 8:27 PM
Yankov: To even register for the auction you have to show that you have the ability to pay (not sure what the minimums are, just basing it on the requirements listed in one of the discussions or releases or something.) Given that it's essentially a court-run auction, I imagine that the starting bid wouldn't be less than the minimum required to register since the money is being used to pay THQ's debts.

Speaking of which, has anyone from TeamPixel actually confirmed that they're registered for the auction? It starts up on Monday, and they won't have their Kickstarter money in-hand by then (there's a 14-day window for collecting and processing payments before the money can be withdrawn from Amazon Payments. If they've got a 6-month history of receiving credit card payments through Amazon Payments they could apply for immediate withdrawal, but I somehow doubt they do.) If they were registered, you'd think it would be something they'd let everyone know to hype their backers up. They might have and said something that I missed, or it might be another thing they're not giving out details about.

Croaxleigh
30th Mar 13, 4:32 PM
Was just reading through some updates there and this caught my eye (and kind of amused me):

Despite a lot of talk to the contrary, there is no precise method for predicting the final auction price of a property that has been inactive for nearly 10 years, especially when differing companies have a variety of creative and financial restrictions determining their bids.
Translation: "Don't worry, we can afford it, other companies won't REALLY be interested in bidding, and if they do they'll only be willing to pay a little bit for it. Honest!"

Sparki
13th Apr 13, 11:36 AM
Grr, I lost track.

I'm kind of lost as to where we are now (or the state of this auction). Kind of missed out on where this is all happening - *le sigh, let me check the last four pages again*.

Any update?

overmind2000
13th Apr 13, 1:48 PM
The last word on their KS is in the comments:


Hi Alexandr, we obtained qualified bidder status last week and opening bids are due today. We'll post more updates as we find out the details (within the limits of our Nondisclosure Agreement).

and also from a non listed official member who is either quoting the runners from another source or earlier in the comments

"We're finalizing the paperwork for our opening bid which is due April 1st, and will follow-up with a second (and final) response bid due April 15th. In the meantime, we will continue to push forward with development and share our prototypes with you to solicit feedback"


So unless someone knows of a website that is documenting the process as its happening it sounds like we'll have to wait till the 15th (and likely the 16th for things to process) before we hear the results of the response bids. Still that assumes that they raised enough to get into the bidding process to start with.

Mac_Bug
13th Apr 13, 2:38 PM
IP's going for absurd amounts, although you could make the argument that re-releasing 1 and 2 on Steam and phones will recoup that cost quickly

overmind2000
13th Apr 13, 4:15 PM
I take it "absurd amounts" is way way way more than the 50K or even the 500K estimated before?

Croaxleigh
13th Apr 13, 9:45 PM
All told, Team Pixel likely have around $75,000 (or maybe up to $100,000 if their "extra money" has been really generous) and probably bid below that amount so they could up the bid as needed toward the end of the auction. The guy from Beamdog anticipated at least $500,000, so it would probably be a safe bet that they went in for at least that much (or are willing to raise to at least that much, and probably more.) I've heard one or two other names mentioned in various conversations online, though they weren't from anything close to official sources so it's not worth speculating what they might have bid since there's no way of knowing whether it was just "wouldn't it be cool" thinking.

Info might be available as early as Monday (since the first auction had initial information coming out on the same day, even though the deals weren't entirely finalized.) Wouldn't be surprised to see Crytek walk away with Darksiders since they seem pretty interested in reuniting the IP with their new team made of ex-Vigil employees, but aside from that I have no idea who'll walk away with what. But I doubt very seriously that you'll see "Team Pixel LLC" anywhere near the Homeworld IP when the results finally come out.

Croaxleigh
16th Apr 13, 12:44 PM
From teamPixel:


To all our contributors: Thank you for supporting the SaveHomeworld.com project, Homeworld will escape the THQ bankruptcy to a new home, however, that home will not be with teamPixel, LLC. The auction for the Homeworld license ended April 15, 2013, and while we reached qualified bidder status for the bankruptcy auction, we were unable to raise the necessary funds to remain competitive against the other parties at the auction. We hope you will join us in supporting Homeworld’s new owners in building a future for the franchise. We anticipate an announcement of the new owner to be made within a couple weeks and for the sale to be finalized around mid-May.

Words cannot describe how honored we are to have been supported by so many in the community.

As promised, we are offering full refunds to all of our generous donors. To facilitate this process, we’ve established a website where you can verify that we have properly recorded all of your contributions, supply us with any special instructions for your donation, and track your refund. As a special thanks, we would like to offer each and every donor a special credit in our upcoming space RTS game. Yes, this means we will still be moving forward with our own Homeworld-inspired space RTS, but under our own intellectual property. We hope all of you will stay in touch and follow us during the production of our game.

Please visit http://teampixel.com/save-homeworld to track your refund using the login credentials sent to your Kickstarter/Indiegogo/PayPal account e-mail. We will provide donors with 5 business days to send us any special instructions before we automatically attempt a refund to your original PayPal or Amazon Payments account.

In the event that these accounts are unavailable, you must provide us with an address to send a money order (USA donors only) or an accessible PayPal. Feel free to contact us for any assistance through the refund portal or using billing@teampixel.com. We are here to serve you!

Sincerely,

Your fellow Homeworld fans at teamPixel

Patman42x
16th Apr 13, 2:09 PM
no surprise here. Now let's see who the buyer is. Beamdog or someone completely different?

Kushan_Pilot
16th Apr 13, 4:09 PM
Too soon to be entirely relieved, but at least it didn't sell for what I'd consider a junk price (<$100,000).

Retroboy
16th Apr 13, 4:29 PM
I wonder if RobC gave his left nut...

:D

Langy
16th Apr 13, 4:47 PM
I'd say good news;)

Croaxleigh
16th Apr 13, 8:31 PM
Beamdog didn't get it either. Trent Oster tweeted that he thinks the IP will go to some "big publisher" who will never develop it.

Stingra
16th Apr 13, 9:19 PM
Better they sit on it for eternity than someone getting it and running it all into the ground.

Akranadas
16th Apr 13, 9:44 PM
Depending on who got it plus, how much interest the auction generated could spell a favourable result. Even if its a release on steam or gog.

Yankov
18th Apr 13, 1:05 PM
advert for their own game... essentially paid for by someone else??

overmind2000
18th Apr 13, 1:57 PM
Yankov I wondered about that as well. Even if a crowed funding attempt fails you do tend to generate a core group of fans who were committed to it initially who won't lose interest just because it failed to fund (or in the case of Team Pixel failed to achieve its goals even after funding). One KS I've backed* was after a failed fund raiser and they generated a much greater amount of interest the second time around (funding in 2 days or so over not even managing the first time) and a fair part of that was people that retained interest from the first attempt).

The thing is Team Pixel didn't fail to fund, they failed to achieve what they hoped with the funding that they did get. A part of me worries that, as a long term advertising plan do you really want your first show to people to be a failure? They didn't just fail to generate interest, they took the interest and failed to do what they intended (with additional funds over what they estimated if we remember that they had the Indiegogo money as well as KS money). Showing the world that - you can't plan well first time around isn't (in my view) a good way to showcase your company.


*Drake; dragon wargame - go check it out its in its last two days - esp if you like tabletop dragons

Croaxleigh
18th Apr 13, 6:55 PM
The thing is, even if they do manage to finish their Homeworld clone/original game, it'll still probably work out well for them. They might not see commercial success with the game (though they could advertise it through some of the connections they made from the Homeworld campaigns, and a few news outlets might even do pieces on them along the lines of "Remember the guys who tried to Kickstart the Homeworld auction? They're back, with an original IP!"), but they aren't primarily a commercial software developer. They do little promotional games and such for businesses, and even if they can show off modest sales or a bit of name recognition then businesses might have a bit more trust in them. It might even be better for them that they didn't get the Homeworld IP, because a major commercial flop like a no-budget Homeworld 3 could hurt but being able to develop that sort of a following and then missing out because someone else had deeper pockets won't (or at least not much.)

Fenra
18th Apr 13, 7:54 PM
So I haven't been following this (kinda wish I could...) and I am curious of what happened. I assumed the actual auction happened, but what are the results of said auction? judging by the page of responses here it would appear the TeamPixel obviously didn't win it, so what happened? O.o

Avetorian
18th Apr 13, 8:11 PM
There's a possibility Sega acquired the I.P. However we won't know possibly until mid next month at the latest according to Team Pixel's update on their kickstarter, we might know sooner but can't tell. Beamdog got smoked in the auction, they were looking to acquire it, so it did go for a large sum of money for sure.

Croaxleigh
18th Apr 13, 8:49 PM
It would be interesting if Sega got it. There's obviously a lot of people who'd buy a Homeworld 3 by Relic (even as much as Relic has changed since Homeworld) and if Sega went big for it then they could've been betting on that. GOG/Steam release, followed by a "HW3 by Relic" announcement next year? Money in their pocket.

Avetorian
18th Apr 13, 9:28 PM
True, and even if homeworld 3 is a rehash of one or two basically the same game with just some new stuff and a different UI, it'd still be fun to play, and I think it's possible for new artists working on homeworld 3 to continue to pay homage to Rob C's art style while adding their own flare on it. If other modders can do it, there's no reason Relic's new personnel couldn't.

I just hope they at least do something this time around, assuming that was Sega that bought it.

Enkal
18th Apr 13, 11:39 PM
I hope the buyer do something with it, why spend a lot of money on the IP otherwise?

Carl
19th Apr 13, 2:51 AM
I hope the buyer do something with it, why spend a lot of money on the IP otherwise?

Protection. If sega did get it.

HW1 and HW2 are both closely associated with relic, if someone else got it and released a bad HW3 relic would be hurt by association in many minds. Simply having the thing to sit on would evade that issue, i suspect that may have been the real reason behind THQ's purchase of it.

Starscream
19th Apr 13, 4:44 AM
I ain't exactly sure if i am more worried or relieved that TeamPixel didn't get the IP. In my worst case scenario there is the possibility that EA like publishers get the IP and let worse developers abuse it.At this point of my life "Homeworld" remains a pure memory and it would be sad if someone wanted to revive it in a bad product that would be a complete insult to what "Homeworld" was, and that is the best space rts ever. I am not syaing that none has the rght to create Homeworld 3, but the product has to live up to its expectations and EA values money more than quality.

Retroboy
19th Apr 13, 6:43 AM
I'm relieved they didn't, in as much as such things are even important.

That being said, I'd suggest there's a tremendous amount of room for a very successful Homeworld 3 that is "lighter" than HW2's mechanic, kind of like how Torchlight was a highly fun and tremendously less expensive alternative to Diablo II.

Croaxleigh
19th Apr 13, 11:19 AM
I hope the buyer do something with it, why spend a lot of money on the IP otherwise?
It also provides the buyer with a product that there's already a demand for the re-release of on digital platforms. A Steam release of Homeworld would get back at least some of the money spent on the IP, and the IP would still be there if needed for future games/promotion and marketing/selling to another company at a later date.

FriendlyFire
19th Apr 13, 2:10 PM
https://twitter.com/TheWesterFront/status/325299726197071873

Interesting. I wonder who the 2nd and 1st are then.

Avetorian
19th Apr 13, 2:20 PM
Stardock came second, surprisingly, as for who came first.... We'll wait and see *sigh* https://twitter.com/draginol

FriendlyFire
19th Apr 13, 2:25 PM
Huh. Stardock could've been... Intriguing. Same for Paradox, for that matters.

I guess this doesn't discount Sega as being the winner. I don't see who else would have an interest in the IP.

Mokino
19th Apr 13, 2:29 PM
2nd place (http://www.vg247.com/2013/04/19/homeworld-backers-to-be-refunded-after-ip-escapes-teampixel/) was Teampixel.

The actual winner is still under wraps.

Avetorian
19th Apr 13, 2:31 PM
Very interesting, this conversation in itself is intriguing O_o now I really want to know who bought the ip if this person really is sure that it wasn't Sega https://twitter.com/TheWesterFront/status/325349777816555520

@ Mokino not sure if trolling O_o

Croaxleigh
19th Apr 13, 2:52 PM
Breaking news: Zynga secures winning bid for Homeworld IP. "HomeworldVille" coming soon to Facebook.

(;))

FriendlyFire
19th Apr 13, 2:54 PM
I doubt Team Pixel even made it to the top 5, personally.

Avetorian
19th Apr 13, 2:57 PM
I wonder how a Homeworldville would even work =x nah don't want to even think about it. I know who bought it! it was CCP games!! =D haha, Homeworld ships in eve, I'm totally going for a Qwaar-Jet =p

Mokino
19th Apr 13, 4:15 PM
Very interesting, this conversation in itself is intriguing O_o now I really want to know who bought the ip if this person really is sure that it wasn't Sega https://twitter.com/TheWesterFront/status/325349777816555520

@ Mokino not sure if trolling O_o

I had them confused for the Pixeljunk folks actually.

Akranadas
19th Apr 13, 5:20 PM
I'm going to laugh so hard if it's EA.

Starscream
20th Apr 13, 1:52 AM
If it was EA we would be already seeing adds like "Pre purchase Homeworld 3 Supreme Collectors Deluxe Edition with X dlc's inculded for 75$" a year before its released on origin and stuff. I am almost convinced that SEGA got the IP and they are handing it over to Relic, unless we got a big conspiracy behind the scenes :)

Yankov
20th Apr 13, 7:10 AM
well.. stardock published all the parts and developed rebellion bit of the sins with ironclad. bits of ironclad was from barking dog....
i guess paradox did publish sots 2... whether they would have trusted kerberos with it ... heh.

stardock did keep quiet about it in the forum... ah.... something about bark and bite, eh?

overmind2000
20th Apr 13, 7:22 AM
Kerberos is too small a team to work on two major titles at once and far as I can tell they are still solidly working on Sword of the Stars 2 (and likely an expansion or stand alone or version 3 so they can actually sell something new since their last expansion for the game was 100% free).

FriendlyFire
20th Apr 13, 8:51 AM
I wouldn't trust Kerberos with Homeworld at all. Mecron and co are just way too bull-headed and their UIs are shit. One of HW's strengths was how excellent the UI was despite the additional difficulty of a third axis of movement.

NovaBurn
20th Apr 13, 10:09 AM
I will be very curious to see who the bidders were once the auction details are released just as the first round's details were. I am very relieved to hear that TeamPixel didn't get the IP. I am kinda disappointed that Paradox or Stardock wasn't able to get it. I could see both of them doing something good with the franchise (especially Stardock).

Anyone wanting to place bets on who?

Mokino
20th Apr 13, 10:27 AM
EA and Activision are the likely worst case scenarios.

SEGA and Ubisoft are better options who also have the money to put in a bigger bid. I'd include Square-Enix except their Japanese side is bleeding money and they blame their western divisions for it. I doubt they're willing to put more money into a western IP.

Just watch and someone like Zynga or one of their numerous Asian counterparts bought it.

Pocktio
20th Apr 13, 10:39 AM
I hope Gearbox get it. They really know how to outsource famous IPs.

overmind2000
20th Apr 13, 12:40 PM
Mokino - Square did put out a patch for Supreme commander 2 a few weeks (months?) go so I don't know if they've fully abandoned their western division. Homeworld would certainly work as a franchise for them and I'd say that story and visual wise they could certainly do great things with it - although I'd expect it to change from its core (honestly considering how Homeworld 2 was almost a whole new world with the general lack of connecting links from the first game to it*

Ubisoft though - they could throw their TW engine at it - imagine homeworld with vast starfleets (actual fleets) of ships!

The biggest question will be if they keep the 3D engine and movement (Homeworld 2 shifted away from it a little in multiplayer compared to Homeworld) or shift to the common 2d battlegrounds with some 3D movement for fighters and ships moving over and under each other

*seriously take out the mothership design and fleet command and the only thing they really share are a few characters and the game engine - the story itself is very disconnected - at least in so far as the game itself presents it

Mokino
20th Apr 13, 1:29 PM
Mokino - Square did put out a patch for Supreme commander 2 a few weeks (months?) go so I don't know if they've fully abandoned their western division. Homeworld would certainly work as a franchise for them and I'd say that story and visual wise they could certainly do great things with it - although I'd expect it to change from its core (honestly considering how Homeworld 2 was almost a whole new world with the general lack of connecting links from the first game to it*

I didn't mean to imply that. Just that their shareholders may not be looking to expand the western division. Then again, they might be due to how bad the Eastern side is. Japanese businesses tend to heavily error on the side of tradition though. It's a cultural thing.

Also TW is Sega, not Ubisoft. Ubisoft's closest thing to an RTS is the ANNO games they publish.

FriendlyFire
20th Apr 13, 1:45 PM
Ubisoft also have published Eugen Systems' RUSE. They could perhaps be an interesting fit for Homeworld.

Retroboy
20th Apr 13, 2:42 PM
I wonder how a Homeworldville would even work
Er...

"The Gardens of Kadesh need fertilizer"?

FriendlyFire
20th Apr 13, 4:01 PM
"Karan needs help with her mothership. Join Homeworldville and give her a collector!"

Blaze
20th Apr 13, 4:07 PM
I just hope Sega gets it at least, or BBI.

Akranadas
20th Apr 13, 4:17 PM
I don't think BBI would have had enough capital to even compete in the auction. It makes zero sense for them to buy the IP when they are working hard on their first game release.

Chimas
20th Apr 13, 4:33 PM
If the IP will be used in the future, it will be taken by a big player with some brand/image connection to what HW represents.
From what you've been saying EA is out and SEGA is in-game.
We could even debate SEGA+WHO, about the studio that will develop it. My bets are on SEGA, but I don't know the industry enough to say that is a preference.
Previous posts have been making good guesses about studios.

Croaxleigh
20th Apr 13, 7:29 PM
While no winners have been announced yet, some information is starting to come out of the auction. Apparently the six lots up for auction generated somewhere between $6 and $7 million, and there were a total of 17 bidders across the entire auction. Every lot was bid on, so franchises that were previously up in the air may see new games after all.

I'm really interested to see how much of that amount went toward Homeworld. While it's no guarantee, it stands to reason that the higher the winning bid is, the less likely the winner wanted it just for digital release and/or keeping the IP on a shelf.

Retroboy
21st Apr 13, 4:25 PM
Aw, shucks Stardock would have made a very interesting interpretation of Homeworld. They came here specifically to promote Sins of a Solar Empire and I'm glad they did. I bet they would have done an excellent job of respecting the vision of the game that obviously inspired them at least a little.

JAL-18
23rd Apr 13, 10:03 AM
Gearbox acquires Homeworld IP (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?272081-Gearbox-aquires-Homeworld-IP)