Questions on my possible Tau Mod

[turel]

I am, hopefully, going to create a mod for DoW to allow gamers to play as the Tau, and I have a few early questions for you all.

1. What units would you like to see in the army?

2. Any personal preferences on the type of army Commander?

3. Any ideas on how to work out how the Tau fight in hand to hand combat? Should they fight as normal but have weak hand to hand abilities? Should they just keep firing their guns in hand to hand instead?

4. Also, any units that you would like to see in the mod could you give thoughts on which 'slot' in the army they would take up. (i.e. For fast assault, Marines have Assualt Marines, Chaos have Raptors, Orks have Rokkit Boyz [or so I would assume], and the Eldar have [I think] Warp Spyders)

At the moment I plan to do the following:

Crisis Suit Commander with Power Halberd (similar to the Dawn Blade - makes him tough in combat)
Fire Warriors
Kroot
Crisis Suits
Stealth Suits
Pathfinders
Devilfish
Hammerhead
Broadside Suit

Over to you guys/gals:

[aeturnum]

1. The ones you mentioned plus stealth suit, broadside, basic kroot and drones.
2. Crisis suit.
3. Probably just have them be really bad at it. They don't have any special close combat rules, they just suck at it.

[Civik]

um, I'd prolly make more than just that, but if you have the t'au codex, you should know what units are available. ;) There are a bunch you can use...

[turel]

um, I'd prolly make more than just that, but if you have the t'au codex, you should know what units are available. ;) There are a bunch you can use...

Yeah, I know that, what I am saying is that with the (i think) 12 Unit per faction limit on DoW, which units would you most like to see in the Tau army.

[ÜberJumper]

Note that any mods will likely be "Foxed" by GWI as they have to protect their copyright.

[Tribunal]

The last I heard, they were pretty open as far as modding and 40k is concerned... Especially if a mod would mean more people buying their product!

(They gave their blessing to the 40k CnC mod afterall....)

[ÜberJumper]

I'd not heard that the CnC mod got GWI's blessing. That's good to hear. Hopefully GWI will be ok with people modding in units... even if THQ/Relic have plans for Expansion packs for different Races.

[Dave]

An expansion pack shoud have the Necrons because they are amazing!!
But...they might unbalence the game coz Necron guns can destroy any thing so.
you wouldnt want a lone warrior just blowing up your defiler or someting...

[Sabin]

You will have to contact GW when you have a more information on the contents of your mod, and will likely result in them requiring you to insert their copyrights into various parts of your mod. :kami:

[Mega-Pimp]

And a big GW logo on the side of all tanks :bandit:

Wonders if any modder will take a different approach and maybe invent some unit, Necrons are a bit short so "inventing" a balanced unit or two that fits the theme might be good(?).

An soon 345 WH 40K fans are going to rip me apart, yes...death here I come! *klick*

[FluxX]

How about inventing a new race?

Then you get free rein...

Pehaps those liard guys that vanished, or the dwaf ones... or a totally new race.

A flying Bird like race.. I mean, its the only one GW don't have :P

[KPMaker]

Pathfinders for sure, with the option to have they’re normal gun or a rail rifle. Maybe a squad of 4, with an option to throw a Shas'ui in there.

A XV15 Stealth Team for sure as well. Maybe a squad of 2 to 4.

An Ethereal Caste would also be cool.

Commander O'Shovah as the Force Commander equivalent.

You also have the Kroot:
Kroot Shaper
Kroot Carnivore Squad (Maybe you could include the Kroot Shaper in a Kroot squad much like a Sgt. In a SM squad, if that’s the way it’s going to work).
Krootox
Kroot Hound Pack

Finally a Gun Drone Squadron, maybe.

[Chaos Lord]

you would have to have a stealth suit!
they are one of the main reasons my tau army have won almost every game theve been in! :D

[Cailet]

for 3 the regular guys will use guns as clubs (I think) Battlesuits will smash opponents around with those massive feet and hands, and ethereals with Honour blade (check out the Aun'shi model at http://www.nugaming.com/WH40K/Warhammer40KTauEtherealAunshi.JPG) could do some ultra-cool Darth-Maul spinny whirly meatgrinding.

[GreatSamaman]

How about an Orca Dropship to bring in field base structures and reinforcements and the like? Since Tau have VERY limited warp tech.

[Mr.Magnetichead]

How about inventing a new race?

Then you get free rein...

Pehaps those liard guys that vanished, or the dwaf ones... or a totally new race.

A flying Bird like race.. I mean, its the only one GW don't have :P


Lizard Guys = Slann

Dwarf Guys = Squats/Demiurge

[Executor]

1. What units would you like to see in the army?


Standard except for no Ethereal (they are far too rare to be included).

hth: Probably just use their Rifle butts. Tau don't train (except for Shas'vre) ro have Close combat weaponary.

Crisis suit: Hell no. Thats a big no no to give Tau any sorta close combat weaponary.

dont omnislash - vijil

[Richtofen]

If there is only one type of hero, go with the ethereal. Make his 'uber skill' called Inspiring Presence which makes all Tau in a huge radius unbreakable and fight better for a duration. Or he could call in an orbital strike like the marines :).

Crisis Suits should come with nothing to start with and you buy the weapons for them in the same way as u upgrade marines with special weapons.

You could do battlesuit jetpacks in 2 ways. You could make the crisis/stealth suits move like grav tanks (ignore most basic terrain) or you can make them like normal jump packs but more manuverable.

Marker Lights should be a sustained thing, ie, a pathfinder will track a target with a markerlight, with the dot and tracer line illuminated and all units firing at the target automatically hit, or something like that.

Devilfish, with buyable seeker missiles.

Hammerhead with customisable turret and sponsons (like the predator)

Pulse Carbines should give off a bright flash the ground near where they hit (the photon flash grenades) and should bring down morale reasonably quickly (seems like pinning=breaking see the sniper rifle).

Crisis suits/stealth suits should be able to be 'deep striked' anywhere on the map similar to the marine drop pods.

Make Tau with really powerful guns but not much CC so if you DO get into CC with them, then the Tau will most likely lose but if you don't get into combat, you will die.

Orcas should drop troops off at a LZ as their method of requisition.

Pathfinders should come in a squad with a devilfish, with the options to upgrade to rail rifles in similar ways to marines upgrading special weapons.

That's all I can think of atm

[Al-Ace]

when u said a mod for CnC did you mean commmand and conquer and do you have the website url

[turel]

Crisis suit: Hell no. Thats a big no no to give Tau any sorta close combat weaponary.


*cough*O'Shovah*cough* :D

[Chaos Lord]

when u said a mod for CnC did you mean commmand and conquer and do you have the website url
yea you got a piont there Ace i play CNC renegade and have been wondering if a 40k mod existed for it
i know a BF1942 40k mod is in progress i just dont know how its going or were it is

[KingKupo]

Tau have only 11 codex units that could be set in-game i geuss(i don't own Codex:Tau so i have to rely on miniature gallerys, unit descriptions and battle reports). however there is a 12th possibility that was in chapter aproved: Human auxilarys.

Basically, they are soldiers left behind after the damocles crusade when the imperial troops turned and went to reinforce for the attack of hivefleet Behemoth. The Tau commander Farsight offered them a chance to join the Tau empire or become Prisoners of war.Many accepted the request over a bleak future as prisoner of war. These men now, known as geu'vesa to the Tau, live in Tau frontier colonys and are given acces to replicate simple farming tools and basic lasguns. In times of war they are given acces to more advanced weapons such as Pulse rifles and carbines.(hmmm, i'm tempted now to make a gaurd army about that concept) there is one downside, that is the traitor rule which makes any imperial unit able to hit them on 3+ in CC.(could be represented by imperials having a lightly higher atack rating against them as if they had full morale, even when it is depleted)

I think they would fit the bill nicely, they are not as strong at range like the Tau or as powerfull in CC as the kroot, but they are a nice balance.(is it allowed to link to GW-related items on this forums? Else i could link to the article)

as on the topic of:
-the ethereal: His inspiring presence would increase morale drastically. Increasing damage for ranged weapons would be kinda weird, so his presence should increase rate of fire, which is alot more realistic. as in the TT his death would drain all morale of nearby tau troops or cause them to run away automatically perhaps?

-other 40K based mods: there is the first person shooter Rival species for Half-life. It has vehicles in it like bikes and dreadnoughts/wraithlords. and a CC system hat disallows you to Shoot in close combat. do far only 4 races have been included(Black templars, iron warriors,world eaters and alaitoc eldar and the orks are currently knocking on the door).

[Cailet]

FimirI I would pay good money for a mod that let you have Fimir (or Squats or Zoats or Harlies or Exodites) in the game. On the other hand, if you made one GW would hate you because they "never existed". :bricks:

[Maximus Decimus]

Never did like slann or squats, good thing GW had the slann killed off and the squats killed off by the nids :)

[Executor]

*cough*O'Shovah*cough* :D

Oh yeah :dunce:

I was actually talking about Standard Tau. While yes O'shovah does have a close combat wepaon theres only one of him and you'd loose alot of those unit options (including Ethereals and Kroot).

[turel]

For a project in my 3DSMAX course I decided to make a start on the units by making the XV-8 Crisis Battlesuit Commander, although I am going to leave it open so I can use the frame for the standard Crisis suits.

After trying to work out how to make the torso (it's more complicated than it seems due to all the different shapes that make up the suit) I was running low on time, so I decided to do something simple. Here is my preliminary design for the Fusion Blaster:

http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/Fusion%20Blaster.jpg

The sides were left plain so it would be easier to join it to the battlesuit - at a later stage more detail may be added, or I may just leave it to the skinning to add details.

For those who have made mods before, how complicated/simple do the models have to be? Is the FB ok as it is, or should I add more detail to it?

[negolith]

on crisis suits, they should be as exactly as they are in the codex. With their jetpacks they act pretty much like eldar jetbikes. And that includes the rule about moving and shooting

on your fusion blaster, it looks like it could use a little more detail, but that could just be done with the skin.

If you need help with the tau, i'm in. Haven't modeled in a long while and i suck at skinning, but its better than nothing.

Pm me if interested.

[sNikt]

i've already started modelling a firewarrior, school has been kinda intense the last couple of days but i should be able to pull something postable off over the weekend.

[BrianGeneral]

I am, hopefully, going to create a mod for DoW to allow gamers to play as the Tau, and I have a few early questions for you all.

1. What units would you like to see in the army?

2. Any personal preferences on the type of army Commander?

3. Any ideas on how to work out how the Tau fight in hand to hand combat? Should they fight as normal but have weak hand to hand abilities? Should they just keep firing their guns in hand to hand instead?

4. Also, any units that you would like to see in the mod could you give thoughts on which 'slot' in the army they would take up. (i.e. For fast assault, Marines have Assualt Marines, Chaos have Raptors, Orks have Rokkit Boyz [or so I would assume], and the Eldar have [I think] Warp Spyders)


1.Orca Dropship,my favourite.
Also,Kroot Knarloc(all 3 type).
All 4 types Sentry Turrets if possible.
Eternal Caste member,of course.

2.Consider O'Shovah and Aun'shi is a must.
Why don't we try to "create" Kais(Fire Warrior Commander),or a Broadside/Stealth Commander?That will be cool.

3.Just keep shooting will be fine,except Eternals,Kroots and O'Shovah.

4.Prefered Fast Attack Units:
Drones(Gun/Heavy Gun/Marker)
Pathfinders /w Devilfish

I may add some later.

[Shakrith]

Orca! Woo!

But I think battlesuits should be crisis or broadside with various options. And stealth suits. Etc. All the cool stuff.

P.S. Also rail rifles.

[Sir Guppy]

Crisis Suit Commander with Power Halberd (similar to the Dawn Blade - makes him tough in combat)


no no no no no!
tau are meant to suck in combat! crisis commander included, dont make them good just because u like him, he should be tough because of his battle suit and have lots of guns and mayb a drone of two. he should survive combat by kicking punching and then running, he should not survive combat by hacking his way through a sqaud with a power weapon.

tau are meant to be a mobile shooting army, u should make it so that they can fall back (escaping combat) while putting out a large amount of fire power.

or at least thats how i view it.

[Witch Blade]

:ds: Thats what you have Kroot for and at 7 pts per unit 3 attacks at Strength 4, Ws 4, Kroot can definitely hold their own.

[Vijil]

turel you really need to know how to figure out and manage the polygon counts on your models, and find out what they are normally in the game. Then dont do them much higher poly, because this slows it down.

This is why we need textures.

I dont mean to sound condescending if you know this already, just figured Id put it out there.

[turel]

Thanks Vijil, I'll keep that in mind.

[SPOON!]

Yes. all of the above... and MORE

. Kroot standad, Krootox
. Firewarriors
. Pathfinders wth carbines upgrd. / railgun upgrd
. Crisis suits all upgrds from codex
. Lossa Drones
. everything else but the heros (two at back of codex)

Edit. tau suck at close combat make everything good in their stats but combat. Kroot fill this role
Kroot suck at shooting. Kroot exccel at CC
Tau suck at CC. Tau exccel at shooting

[BaconIsGood4Yo]

Just make sure that they are very different from the other sides.

[Retribution]

Well, don't want to fly the flag too vigourously, but I'm from the CNC:Generals 40k mod

http://www.planetcnc.com/onlywar

That link may be down, so try this one

http://dynamic6.gamespy.com/~onlywar/html/index.php

Good news, the first private alpha is due this weekend. Playable real-time 40k, before dawn of war :)
Bad news, you guys have just missed a modelling competition to get a place on the alpha.

The issue of GW IP policy was brought up wayyy back, and as far as we know, We're allowed to mod the game, subject to constant evaluation by GW(so, If they want to pull the plug at anytime, they can)

I think this is very admirable on the part of GW, but I'd rather we didnt rabbit on about IP issues on this thread.

On behalf of the team, We wish you a lot of luck with your mod, as so many mods that are 40k related fall to the wayside, such as the Battlefield 1942 mod, the Epic mod, and so on. The notable few are Rival species, the RA2 40k team, and us as far as I know.

As for ideas, Check our forums, I'm sure you can find inspiration there.

Oh and btw, check out the firewarriors and their weapon fx in our preview video (see the news page I think), I hope you'll like it, congrats to the team members that made it.

[KingKupo]

I don't think wether or not the sucky CC will be sufficient balancing. It's treu that whenever tau get into contact with something that has higher WS, they are most likely to curl op and cry:' Not in the face, NOT IN THE FACE. but shouldn't the Tau be a tad too strong with Kroot? You could just keep them behind the FW sqauds and charge as soon as something threatening shows up.

Of course i do have an idea to counter this: It's simple, The Kroot are basically your barbaric carnavores that were pressed into service because your superiors would refuse to give their soldiers some hand to hand combat training. So why not let them act like them? as soon as anyting comes in their sight, they'll automatically charge it, perhaps firing a few shots on their way. they can however be given the order to retreat once morale is depleted in which case they'll run to the nearest resuply point. This would really make them more characteristic.

[senor_kickass]

go for it dude!! but include a devilfish and maybe the option to upgrade the hammerhead to that one in chapter approved.

[sNikt]

I made this, it's pretty rough. i don't really know what polycount to go for but im trying to keep it down. it's not finished as you can probably tell.
http://spastisk.homestead.com/files/fw.jpg

Retribution: the mod looks great but i couldnt find the vid on your site. do you have a link or somehing?

[Shua_Zane]

OK ppls as far as NECRONS go in this game if it happens. I am sure they will make it to were it's not instantily killed but just rarely Gauss Weapons will cause a lot more damage then they normally would. You being that is a RTS and each unit has a health bar. from wat i can tell it would be a logical way to handle the gauss weapons.
But there still is the WWB.

[Shakrith]

The 1-in-6 wound of gauss weapons which so annoys me (ignores my lovely 3+ saves :() represents them stripping targets down, which is at a set rate in theory but is simply a 16% chance because it is conventient for balance.

Neither do gauss weapons fire distinct "shots"- they project a continuous stream of magnetic retroceleration beams which flay the target apart catastrophically. This means that they would cause high damage, fire a continuous stream, but not take up new targets quickly (say, between each kill they have to re-aim and the capacitors recharge). That is better. Sorry to be a fluff nazi.

Also, with Tau, they should arrive in Orcas: buildings are lowered to the ground precariously (same basic principle as Ork dropping but slower and more careful!). You should be able to make a squad, and then fly the orca to the location and drop it rather than at your base.

[evildooer]

looking good. cant wait to see rail gun blasts nocking space marines off their feet :D... literally. lol

[turel]

Wicked Looking Fire Warrior sNiKt. Email me at djberesford@aol.com for what you are working on next. :)

I will try and keep the poly count as low as possible on the crisis suits, but it will be tough due to their shape.

[Chaos Lord]

loking good so far and the game is no where near out yet o_0
but still it looks cool

and with the necrons i think that they should only get the WWB rule if there lord is near like in the TTG and the bodys dissaper in a few of secs so if the player wants them back then they will have to get to the bodys fast
that sound good?

[turel]

What do the Necrons have to do with a Tau mod, can I ask?

If you want to discuss the 'Crons, then please make a new thread, huh?

[GreatSamaman]

Darn Turel, beat me to it. Please guys, lets keep this to the TAU mod, unless the guy modding decides the Tau in his mod will fight Necrons. If you want to discuss a Necron mod, go to one of the general Mod threads (there are a million) or make another one if you JUST HAVE TO. So please, let's keep this thread on topic, otherwise it might get closed. Anyway, in terms of those Firewarriors, I know they are an early design, but you should work on smoothing the armour out a bit. Make everything just the slightest bit rounded, at least in terms of the armour plating. Such as Tau shoulder pads, they kind of bulge out a bit. And the helmets, they are supposed to be nice and roundy too. :D

[Chaos Lord]

what?
im only awnsering other ppls questions that are also in this thread
no need to get annoyed with me...
you seem to be making it out to be my fault
why is it so many ppl on this forum have a prob with me ive done nothing wrong have i?

[GreatSamaman]

We aren't mentioning you specifically, we're talking about the Necron discussion in general. And no, this forum is not out to get you. :D

[turel]

Here is a WIP on one of the buildings for the Tau, a Power Generator based off of an image in the Tau Codex:

http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/Power%20Generator.jpg

What do you think?

[GreatSamaman]

Nice, keep them coming. Unfortunately, I dont have the dex, so I cant cross-reference. But you have it, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. :D

[turel]

A couple more structures for you all:

Landing Pad, based on an image in the Tau Codex:
http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/Landing%20Pad.jpg

Drone Sentry Turret, based on THIS (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/sentrytbc.htm) Forgeworld model:

http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/Gun%20Turret.jpg

The turret will be armed with Burst Cannons, although I am unsure on how to go about modelling the burst cannons as of yet, as I don't know if they would raise the polygon count too high if I were to do them as the model appears.

What do you all think?

[turel]

GreatSamaman, this link should help you out. :)

http://uk.games-workshop.com/40kuniverse/warhammer40k/tau/index/Tau_index.htm

[turel]

Yet another building, and one I designed myself.

Tau Radar Dome:

http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/Radar%20Dome.jpg

The hemisphere on the underside of the radar itself needs smoothing, but I think you get the general idea.

Comments?

[Triceron]

From the looks of it, you're using way too many polies than you probably need.

Try to use fewer spans for the cylinders and use those extra polies to add in some detail. Also remember that sometimes larger pieces need more polies to get in better detail while you can get away with using fewer polies on areas that won't really be seen.

[turel]

The majority of detail will be in the skins, I hope, although I have done as you suggested and dropped the polies down in as many places as I dared to.

Does anyone here think that Crisis/Broadside Battlesuits are going to be a bugger for polygons? Will they be likely to cause slowdown?

[Triceron]

The thing is, DoW uses LOD (Level of Detail) and it will scale the polycounts of units according to the position of the camera. This is why most of the units look so detailed close up.

I'm not exactly sure how LoD works or how to get it, but just keep in mind to keep polycounts low or else make multiple versions of the same character (high res medium res and low res) just in case.

[turel]

Ahhh! I wondered how Relic were doing that. Clever concept, really.

[Dante'sInferno]

Those Tau buildings look awesome to me turel.

[Richtofen]

If there are different landing pads for vehicles/infantry, just use the above one for vehicles cause its big and stuff and have a little drop point where the orca hovers above the ground and the infantry drop out (as seen in http://uk.games-workshop.com/40kuniverse/warhammer40k/tau/gallery/Default.htm the one under the drawing of the ethereal, the marine and the adept (and drone^^) having a chat.)

[WarmasterHorus]

I personally think the Tau have noting to do in the 40k universe. It's like putting in clean-cut manga in a dark future setting. They just feel... off. But, that's just me I guess, you guys seem to think they're great. I would enjoy a Imperial Guard of Tyranid mod, now that would be more fitting. Or how about mods that add some of the missing units from the original races?

[Kained]

What sort of poly count do we think we're looking at for infantry and vehicles?

[sNikt]

i'd really like to know that myself.. maybe 800-1000 for an infantryunit?

[Pike]

Seeing how DoW is using a modified IC engine, I took a quick look at the IC refrence models. The wolf has around 5800 faces, the Henchman has around 800 faces, 4000 for the lobster and 800 for the archerfish. Draw your own conclusions.

[Professional]

that would be so great if they had Tau in the game

[Maximus Decimus]

When someone asked what program they were using they answered by saying using 3D Studio Max and specifically stated the number of polys in a model, gonna go look for that thread.

[sNikt]

searched an found this

Poly count varies depending on the unit. Sub-2000 for most infantry (which means most are about 2000). Vehicles or big units are more, but I don't know the count off-hand. Getting 2000 count units to fun fast requires some specialized optimization work on the unit, which may (or may not, I'm not an artist) be difficult to do, so if you want to make things easy on yourself shoot for 700-800 polys, as that allows a good amount of detail without taxing the system too much.

We have a proprietory mission editor for creating maps. Its an updated version of the same mission editor from Impossible Creatures.

[Blackfang]

Hey the tau mod sounds fantastic and some of those preliminery models are great as well. Personally i'd like to see how the crisis battlesuit is coming along. I think that will be rather swish model!

Looks fantastic, keep up the good work!

BF


P.S. Hey Turel i'm new to this modelling business but i will help out where i can and also have you seent the hormagaunt model done by wazz thats the kinda detail we should be able to get up to without too much slow down. Concentrating detail in the textures! ;-)
PM me if your interested and yes i'm a Tau player of the desktop game so making model referencing easier!

[Minaith]

It's looking good. I can't wait to see the finished product.

[one_klump]

If you want to find pics of Tau buildingd, look for the one where they built an entire Tau city to show off the Tau when they first were introduced. If you look at the back of the Codex and use those, they are just a bunch of overturned flowerpots and some card with a few bits glued on. It mentions several times on the GW website how they were rushed to have some of the models painted intime to have the codex ready. The buildings were just as rushed :)

[sNikt]

i've gotten a bit further, sorry for the big image..
it's about 1100 polys.
http://spastisk.homestead.com/files/hoholkökpo.jpg

[Tau Warrior]

The Fire Warrior is looking really nice, I've played Tau for a while and I'm looking foreward to playing the finished mod. I would also like to have a look at the crisis battlesuit model (if you've started it) since they are one of the most important units in the Tau army.

[Blackfang]

Hey people, The Fire warrior looks great :D I've created a gun drone but have no way of posting it onto the forum, does anyone have an e-mail address i could send a pic of it to?

[ionfish]

Upload it here (http://hosting.hwcommunity.com/).

If that doesn't work, email me... ionfish@hwcommunity.com

[Blackfang]

Hey peeps, think i just about got it working so heres my tau gun drone. Tell me what u think!
http://hosting.hwcommunity.com/040601121646-gundronelowpoly.GIF

if you want a better image drop me a pm!

Also any skinners out there, want to skin it? I can't skin worth a damn!

[Talos]

looking good keep it up

[turel]

Excellent looking stuff guys, this mod is improving every day.

Before I attempt to develop the Crisis Suit any further I am going to purchase myself a copy of 3DSMAX so I can work on it at home, as GMAX just doesn't seem up to the complexities of the XV-8 chassis.

[Blackfang]

Yeah same here, the gun drone was only created with gmax. I should be able to do a lot more with it once I can acquire a copy of 3d Studio max. I still want to try creating a devilfish or hammerhead tank, they look like some juicy models! :D

[SABScope]

Yet another building, and one I designed myself.

Tau Radar Dome:

http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/Radar%20Dome.jpg

The hemisphere on the underside of the radar itself needs smoothing, but I think you get the general idea.

Comments?
It looks nice, and it probably took you a while, but... well, the Tau arn't spiky really.

[Blackfang]

Hmmm , he has a point you know! Tau aren't really all that spikey! you should take a look at the games workshop page about creating Tau terrain pieces they have a forward comms array post! Check it out at tau terrain (http://uk.games-workshop.com/40kuniverse/warhammer40k/tau/Tau_Terrain/Tau_terrain.htm)

[Random Person]

WOW i love it(drone)

[turel]

For those who think Tau aren't spikey, I agree with you.

But then, check out the metal Shield Drone model. ;)

[Blackfang]

Heh, thanks for the feedback on the drone but it takes a team of people to create a mod for a game! Recognition has to go to the others for some cool buildings (Turel) and the wicked fire warrior (sNikt). Anyone with animating experience and coding would be quite helpful as well! :D

[Bryn]

Just one thing turel try to flaten out the dome on the top to make it look more drone and tau like.

[evildooer]

looking good ppl.

[Random Person]

Ok Army list:
Path Finders,
Devilfish Troop Carrier,
Kroot(maybe),
Crisis Battlesuits,
Broadside Battlesuits,
Tau Commander,
Tau Gun Drone,
Ethereal Cast Members,
Fire Warriors,
Hammer Head W/Ion Cannon,
Hammer Head W/Railgun,
Stealth Suits,
Orcas(to bring in troops),
Tau Drone Sentry Turrets W/Missiles or W/Fuison Blasters or W/Burst Cannons
or W/Plasma Rifles,
If Theres AA Units in game Skyray,
Hmm and if Heavy gun drones,
Maybe Tau Air Caste Members,
and for drone Drops Tiger Sharks.

[Dante]

The last I heard, they were pretty open as far as modding and 40k is concerned... Especially if a mod would mean more people buying their product!

(They gave their blessing to the 40k CnC mod afterall....)
um whats the CnC mod? Just wonderin...

[Talos]

they is a tread about it

[BlackTemplar]

As a Tau player, I'm pretty thrilled about a mod for the Tau race.
However, have you considered making them strictly Tau, without the Kroot mercs? The kroot would be pretty hard to do, seeing as how they feast upon the corpses after they win a fight. Also, their unique muscle structure would make their animations very different from what we've seen.


Just a thought.

[evildooer]

yes, in the TT, you are able to imagine what a kroot looks like when it runs, eats etc... creating the reality will take some work.

[Talos]

i think it should just be tau.but i stopped playing the tt before tau appeared.i have looked at the models can some tell be how they fight

[evildooer]

yes. the tau are very very into incredibly heavy weaponry...the basic fire warrior has a 24 inch str 5 weapon... and up to half of them can be swapped with ones that give pinning tests on successful hits. the rail guns are stupidly powerful, str 10, AP 2, 72 inch range, and are devestatingly popular in the armies. the kroot themselves are very cheap...i think 6 or 8 points, with no armor saves, however they do have 3 attacks each and they can be equipped with kroot hounds, huge dog-like creatures, very agressive, and krootoxes, large cow-like animals, with big guns on the top. the tau tend to sit back and shoot, as they totally suck in close combat, and they tend to enjoy using the kroot as very cheap, expendable, yet imensely deadly close combat back-up. thus they can be an incredibly deadly force.

[BlackTemplar]

Kroot can be upgraded to have an armor save (albeit a shitty one)

[evildooer]

lol 6+... its hardly worth the cost.

[BlackTemplar]

I agree. ;)

[evildooer]

probably the most bang for your buck you will find is the pathfinder...very scary units, especially when backed up by a hamerhead or broadside unit.

[Blackfang]

Agreed, i think. Doing just Tau units would make sense, altho this would severly hamper their CC ability as an army. As difficult as the kroot maybe i will still give it a go at modelling them. Btw i am in the process of modelling the devilfish APC at the mo, so hopefully you should see that up on the forums in good time also with the hammerhead variant of it! :D For those of you who dont know me i created the gun drone! Anyways i might be away from the forums a bit at the moment, but fear not my modelling shall continue!

"For the greater good!" ;)

[Maximus Kane]

I was told the polly count for a marine is around 2000...

I think i'm going to install 3DSMax and knock out a few tanks (easier than infantry)

[Chasjs]

Tau Fight in Close combat with a Sharp Knife. (It says in the White Dwarf in the January issue after the 4k battle report it tells you how to make Shas'la Kais) You could use Gun Buttsin swiping axwing ways)

You could ave crisis Comanders (Shas'o or Shas'el) Or an etheral (mabe equipped with a Honour blade)

Dont forget Kor'vesa (Gun Drones)

You could have a Sky Ray

Troops would get dropped off in devilfishes. Broadsides in a converted Devilfish (Take idea from star wars, how the clones in ep2 land their cocroch type tanks) the rest with jetpacks) Kroot in *Krootish* drop Pods. *most people have an idea what krootish is like*.

You would need a markerlight system and Seeker Missiles.

HQ:Crisis Commander(Shas'o)with 2 bodygaurd(Shas'vre), Tau Etheral Caste(Aun'o)
Elite: Stealth(Shas'ui), Crisis suits(Shas'ui)
Troops:Fire Warriors(Shas'la), Kroot
Fast Attack: Pathfinders(Shas'la), Gun drones(Kor'vesa)
Heavy Support:Broadsides(Shas'ui), Hammerhaead

The orca sound good!!!!!

[NightBringer]

if you want ot make a tau mod and want some background ya could base it on the damocles gulf, then you could moddel some gue'vesa (human auxillaries) aswell for the tau (they always count as being broken when in cc against sm or guard in the game)

[Random Person]

I already made a list.

[Uzgah]

I'm really liking the FireWarrior model so far. I do have one little gripe about it though. His arm-shield. Just looking at some of my TT FireWarriors and the artwork in the 'dex, they are large. To scale it, I'd say about the same length as the breast plate is wide; and as wide as the chest piece is tall. So just up the size on the arm-shield and I'll be a happy chappy =]

[sNikt]

i'll ptobably redo the entire fire warrior-model with a higher polycount and more like the tabletop version when i've had the chance to work on my modelling-skills a bit more.

[Blackfang]

Hey there people, just a quick update. As said before i'm working on the devilfish model! This is just a development stage for it as you can guess, seeing as there isn't any detail yet, but tell me what you think so far!
http://hosting.hwcommunity.com/040607124757-devilfish2.GIF

[NightBringer]

man, thats amazing (for what it is atm of course)

[Uzgah]

@Blackfang: I'm assuming that is in the 'smooth mesh' format rather than in vertex mode yes?

[IllustriusChen]

That devil Fish is looking cool! :spin:

I just got gmax and had a look at it.

I thought I'd have a look at how this stuffs done, after a bit I decided to make something coherant. Looking in the codex I came to the decision that doing a bloke would be to hard at present so I made a building instead.
It's my first go at anything and I've not been able to get the instructions or tutorials yet so apologise if its a bit amateur.

I know this one has been done but I thought I'd add some more detail.

http://hosting.hwcommunity.com/040608024126-Tau Landing Pad - Close Up copy.gif

http://hosting.hwcommunity.com/040608024057-Tau Landing Pad - Close Up Ramp copy.gif

http://hosting.hwcommunity.com/040608024003-Tau Landing Pad - Overall copy.gif

Its 7610 polys which sounds high to me but I don't know about these things.

[Blackfang]

@Uzgah-Yes it's in smoothed mesh format, why?
@Chen - For a first attempt we like it! One thing tho over 7000 polys is truck loads, my devilfish is only pushing the 2000 barrier at the moment! What i think you should do is reduce the segments for all the components on your drop pod! and remove the plane thats underneath it, that way you will reduce the amount of polys dramatically. eg. My drone started life at over 5000 polys i managed to optimize it down to a little over 500! ;) keep up the good work buddy!
What would be really handy is if you could work on how to skin in gmax, that would help me out loads, coz i can't skin anything, well i can but it dont work to well!

@All - Thanks for the feedback on the devilfish development model, please send more feedback! :D

P.S. once i finished the devilfish it should be no time before you see the hammerhead! The daddy of tanks with that railgun! But one quick question, Do we want the ion cannon variant as well?

[IllustriusChen]

Thanks Blackfang.
I'll scale it down then. I put the plain in to hide the fact that the ramp is a rectangle at an angle.
(^ it rhymes ^)

I need to find out how to make triangles.

Looking at the codex I'd say that just having the Railgun would be ok, as the ion cannon has worse stats on the table top though it fires three times to the railguns one.

If it's just going to fire one shot stick to the Railgun, but if its gonna shoot three rapidly it could be good. The downside could be that it'll just wipe everything out real quick and be totally unfair.

I'll look into skinning, but im a total newb at that too.

[IWAssassin]

Indeed, according to deggy the poly cap for tanks etc should be 3000. Infantry should be 2000. Make sure you use TRIANGLE count, not polygon. Eg a 20 sided circle is 1 polygon, but 18 triangles. Triangles are used for the purpose of "polygon" in a game.

[turel]

Here, as requested, is my progress on the XV-8 Crisis suit.

http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/Torso.jpg

Comments?

[IllustriusChen]

That is looking absolute class!?!

If you want a constructive criticism, the protruding rectangle in the centre of the chest needs to be wider in the middle than at the ends.


/ \
\ /

Kinda like that.

But thats possibly the most nigley thing anyones gonna come up with so don't pay it much atention.

Its all coming together well it would seem.

Keep it up everyone. :bandit:

[Blackfang]

1. It's looking good turel! Get the head on and arms on will be most excellent as well, seeing as the head and arms will be very easy to do and make it look more like the battlesuit! I think in terms of weapons we should probably try to model all the weapons for its hard points giving the player the option to upgrade the unit depending on what he's facing! Like the space marine units can upgrade their heavy weapons!
2. I've come to the swift conclusion not to do kroot at the moment coz animation would be hell for all those quills on the backs of their heads! Keep it just tau units and the players will just have to adjust their tactics when playing and keep them at range where they're best!
3. Railgun it is then for the hammerhead :D
4. Who wants to work on the orca with me for bringing in the old supplies for buildings and such! :D seeing as the orca is a massive model!
5. Can someone e-mail me the definitive unit list to timothybrazier@hotmail.com with the subject DoW Tau - unit list, thanks!
6. Do you think we should perhaps set up a website for the mod? i know theres that dark millenium one but we can put all our stuff there once we've finished, maybe we could create a website to upload images and fluff etc to for the time being?

Right i think thats all i wanted to say, Thanks again and keep up the great work guys i think we can pull this off now! Just so long as we dont give up when things get tough. Still need a coder tho, i can't do all the coding altho i can do some!

Cheers,

BlackFang ;)

[turel]

If you want a constructive criticism, the protruding rectangle in the centre of the chest needs to be wider in the middle than at the ends.

/ \
\ /

Kinda like that.

Yeah, I know all about it, it is just that this is as far as I got in my college class. I will work on it more this coming thursday. :)

[turel]

My weekly update on the XV-8 Crisis suit.

Front:
http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/CrisisSuit1.jpg

Back:
http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/CrisisSuit2.jpg

Hopefully I will get more substance modelled next week, as this week I think I got too bogged down in getting the details exactly right.

Any thoughts?

[IllustriusChen]

Very nice.

Not much left to put on it now.

Good Work. :bandit:

How do you keep the poly count on that down, my buildings got way less shapes and it has over 7000 polys on it!?!

[turel]

Well the suit is running at around 1300 polygons at the moment, although I am told that 3DMAX treats triangles as polygons already, as the triangle count was identical to the polygon count, bizarrely enough.

To lower the poly count, go into your modify bar in the top right (next to the 'create' bar) and lower the amount of height segments, and for rounded things lower the amount of sides.

I lowered the height segments to 1, as unless you are going to warp or contort the shape afterwards, there is no reason to have more than 1 height segment.

For the sides, I usually drop the original amount down by either a half, third, or quarter depending on complexity of the shape, and its importance to the model.

Hope that helps.

[IllustriusChen]

Cool.

Thanks.

[Spex]

Nice pic
though 1300 Poly's might be a bit too much
u should try to stay below 1000 if u can

[ceejayoz]

If I remember correctly, Spex, Relic says the average unit polygon count is 2000, so 1300 would be just fine.

[Spex]

K then

hmm, seemingly I oversaw that relic statement,
thanks though for the Update.
I normally try to keep as low poly (1000)as possible (Gmax)
as it works on most engines on a 1ghrtz 128 DDR ram(RAdeon 9800)

[Megas Menandros]

as the mod said, 1300 is FINE. You can't lose detail, not on a crisis suit (which is the best thing TAU have). How is it going anyways?

On the other hand 7200 polys on a landing pad, is a tad superfluous...

[turel]

Weekly update time. :D

Front:
http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/CrisisSuit3.jpg

Back:
http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/CrisisSuit4.jpg

The exhaust vent on the back of the jet pack is somewhat overlarge at the moment, as I started work on it about three minutes before the end of the session. Also, the 'face' on the suit is not flat, as it looks on the renders, it is set back into the head as on the GW model.

The Poly count seems to have shot up, and is somewhere around 2000 at the moment. I will trim it down once I have finished the structure of the model.

[Megas Menandros]

You 're getting there. Good job!

[Russian Ninja]

Yes, very good work. As they'd probably come under a "Support" choice during the mod, and come in smaller squad sizes you're not going to have nearly as many of them as you'd have Firewarriors, so you can afford to be lenient with the poly count. If your Firewarriors are anything to go by then those suits will be something special.

[IllustriusChen]

THats kicking ass dude.

Tho its got no feet yet :werd:

[Blackfang]

Hey Turel that's a wicked looking model, sorry i haven't been around much i'm currently living somewhere with no net access :S I've now finished the hammerhead tank model with railgun turret so as soon as i get the oppurtunity i'll post a piccy and people can tell me what they think. Believe it or not i finished the hammerhead before the devilfish coz the turret seemed easier to do :P lol. Ah well, have we got anyone who can skin really well? I should be back in action in these forums soon so see you then!

[turel]

And it's finished:

http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/XV-8%201.jpg

http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/Xv-82.jpg

http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/Xv-83.jpg

http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/Xv-84.jpg

What do you guys think?

[Blackfang]

Hey Turel, that's fantastic how many polys is it? Like i said i should get the hammerhead on this forum soon then u could tell me what u think of that! Do you know how to skin them, coz i've tried but i can't seem to do it! What are you gonna work on next?

Anyways see you people soon on these forums when i get home!

:D

[turel]

Its just shy of 3000, although i havent tried to slim it down yet.

Please hurry with the Hammerhead, I would love to see it.

[sNikt]

i'm impressed turel. is that polycount in triangles or faces?
i'll soon have a completely redone firewarrior modeled, ill post it up here then.

[sNikt]

Well, here it is. It's much easier to work when you know what kind of polycount have to spend.
This one is about 1800 polys but thats subject to change. Stuff left to fix are some of the joints, the backpack and the little antenna thingy. Oh and it's not textured or anything just some simple colors.

http://spastisk.homestead.com/files/fwvertexc.jpg

[King Raa]

good model? i wudn't know - whats it look like skinned n stuff
gj tho

[senor_kickass]

damn thats awesome!!!

[Megas Menandros]

Yep, both are fantastic. Now it is time to start working on some animations, people...

[IllustriusChen]

Hey thats awesome Turel.

Once you've sorted it fully its only a short hop to a broadside suit!?!

Keep it up.

:beer:

[Blackfang]

Hey people as promised here is my updates on the hammerhead and devilfish models. Still some work needed on the rear section of it by the hatches, but shouldn't take me long! One of these days i'm going to crack skinning as well. Anyways here they are!
http://hosting.hwcommunity.com/040707170420-hammerhead.GIF

Here's the updated hammerhead with proper missile systems and targeting equipment on it!
and the devilfish...
http://hosting.hwcommunity.com/040705152147-devilfish.GIF

the poly counts are hovering just above 4000 for both but it could all be a lie, so i'll recheck using different methods just make sure its not double what it is or something...lol!

[Triceron]

Very nice Devilfish, Blackfang! A note tho, the Devilfish are a bit taller than the Hammerheads, and Hammerheads are flatter and wider to accomidate the rail gun and keep balance. If you compare the Hammerhead and Devilfish closely, you can see the subtle differences. They're really similar to each other, but it's not only the weapons that are different, but the proportions as well.

Great work on them tho, I'd love to see you make an Orca!

[IllustriusChen]

Wow dude.

Thats kick ass Blackfang. :argh:

Never noticed the differences between the two myself Triceron. It'll probably bug me enough to go check now.

Im nackered for finding out how to skin, don't now enough to even begin.

Hey Triceron you couldnt tell me how or point me some where that would tell me could you?

Your Firewarrior looked really cool. Any help would be appreciated. :bandit:

[Kained]

One thing of note. You need to turn some of the edges on the model, i've noticed some dark areas on the model where the smoothing has gone slightly amiss because of this. For instance on the nearside nose of the vehicles.

Its a good solid model though but i think you could drop some polys here and there.

[Blackfang]

Wow triceron a good report from you tis an honour from someone who is so good at it, thanks for info i'll change them around. Also my work has begun to reduce poly counts everywhere on them there are lots of things that can be changed without any difference really to the model itself, so you will see them back up here soon enough in an optimized state :D. But thanks for the feedback it all helps! I've got someone to teach me how to skin now as well so hopefully i can get some skinned ones up! The orca's on it's way people, i'll keep you posted!

[sNikt]

some progress on the texture.

http://spastisk.homestead.com/files/fw4.jpg

[King Raa]

looking good, how long till finnished?

[IllustriusChen]

Hey sNikt that model looks cool.

You've got the details down really well.

Hope to see more soon. :bandit:

[Raven of the Da]

:ds: Thats what you have Kroot for and at 7 pts per unit 3 attacks at Strength 4, Ws 4, Kroot can definitely hold their own.

err nope they can't with the current rules here are three good reasons why.

reason #1 initiative 3.
reason #2 T 3
reason #3 no armor save

just about any army except for necrons turn them into mush before they have a chance to do anything

[Inquisitor-X]

hi im working on a transport model based on a thing from forgeworld. ill post images soon. just for an idea of a poly count, how many should it be?
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/orca.htm
thats the one.

Actually, this is a dropship so heres what im thinking:

The tau can drop off their units using this dropship, it could also drop vehicles and buildings possibly. So the polycount can be pretty high seeing as itll only be on screen for a short amount of time

[turel]

Awesome models guys!

Blackfang, those tanks are crazy! Can't wait to see the Orca.

sNikt, that's awesome, but don't forget Tau have one less finger than humans do. Can that be changed? Make the fingers look fatter?

EDIT

Just a thought. Will it be possible to make a Stealthsuit actually have the 'cloaking field' ability in game?

If not, I created a custom battlesuit that has pretty much the same capabilities and is based on the XV-15 model, so we could maybe swap the Stealthsuit for it? Just trying to cover all eventualities.


Fianlly, just some coloured images.
http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/XV-81.jpg

http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/XV-82.jpg

http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/XV-83.jpg

http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/XV-84.jpg

http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/XV-85.jpg

http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/XV-86.jpg

The colours are just basic colour picker stuff just to give you a better idea of the shape and what it may look like once skinned.

Also, for those interested, here are the Wireframe renders, just to give you an idea of how the model was made:

http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/WireframeA.jpg

http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/thedefiler/WireframeB.jpg

Not exactly the clearest images in the world, but they will just have to do.

[sNikt]

shouldn't we get our own forum btw, since they're handing em out for free?

[Richtofen]

i wouldn't mind joining this tau mod

[Fend]

might i just say ... HOLY GOD DAMN SHIT! the EMPORERS servants be doomed O_o and thats coming from a black templars player!

ok. now onto the serious stuff. WOW. Turel, you rule. its good to see such a sw0it dedicated mod in the work. isnt our hobby great? Oh. also, Triceron. you seem like... sum uber legend... stopping short of GOD around here, Maybe ... just maybe... you should help these dedicated servants of our dear Dear hobby, make sumthing ... not just great... but Awsome. you are an Uber cool skinner / modeler / im more than sure that not only they would benefit from some help from you... but maybe the community as a whole to. hrmm i could be wrong, but it seems like a wet dream to think that a Well organised , steady group of workers coming into league with the uber cool skinning / modeling tallents of triceron (like my but kissing so far?) would make up for all the times i never got everything on my christmas wishlist. hrmm. Anyway , the point being, back to turel , blackfang and sNick, youz are my Heroes.

- Ps - In real life i love fighting tau cause they die so easy
- PPS - Im going to replace my mouth with a vox caster because i kissed so much tau ass just then.
- PPPS - Keep up the awsome work. I cant wait for DOW to come out, and a high quality mod to come out within a couple months of the mods release date! this is too good to be true.

[Fend]

Another unit of light infantry is the RANGERS, the army's scouts and specialized killers who are all but invisible thanks to the camouflage of their CAMELEOLINE CLOAKS.

I found this. I dont think makeing up a Stealth battlesuit is necessary anymore.

[Russian Ninja]

Another unit of light infantry is the RANGERS, the army's scouts and specialized killers who are all but invisible thanks to the camouflage of their CAMELEOLINE CLOAKS.

I found this. I dont think makeing up a Stealth battlesuit is necessary anymore.

Err...Rangers are Eldar units, not Tau.

[Triceron]

What he means is that since units in the game already have the cloaking function (ie Rangers), you can apply the same thing for stealth suits for the Tau.

[Richtofen]

I was bored one day and decided to make a rail gun. So here it is. I also had a bit of time on my hands and made a missile pod, a multitracker and a broadside's foot (since turel already did the crisis suit. The foot is 271 polys, the rail gun is 526, 510 for the missile pod and 314 for the multitracker. I'm looking forward to playing this and watch lots of stuff die to massed pulse fire :D. I used 3Dsmax6

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Richtofen-Broadsidefoot.jpg
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Richtofen-missilepod.jpg
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Richtofen-railgun.jpg
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Richtofen-multitracker.jpg

[Fend]

thanks triceron for clearing that up. yeah, i been doing sum snooping round , i must have seen every site to do with DOW by now. I got an idea. maybe Tau reinforcments should be brang in Via an Orca drop ship to a landing pad? that would look real good. i can imagin it now. funky no?

On another note : i was wondering if you have thrown together a website turel for your mod?

On another-NOTHER note: Im beginning to worry bout quality control. I mean... Tricerons got his mod with his uber looking tau. then theres the ok looking tau I saw here (talking warrior wise. cmon, if youve seen tricerons youll KNOW what im on about) then theres the Darkmillenium mod thats being made with its army for every army. I dno. with all these different models being made, maybe the community should bulk together as one, contribute the models, then have them sorted by a team to produce the best quality armys. or sumthing. sounds really organised. i dno. what you all think?

Double Post

just a quicky, blackfang put a good effort into that devil fish... but ive just seen Tricerons. a Valiant effort on black fangs behalf, but im going to have to refer back to the post i just made about Quality control in the community :( (i dont want to be harsh, but im concerned bout how organised we all are)

[Blackfang]

Oi! There's nothing wrong with my devilfish and hammerhead, personally i care not for what triceron's done but what Turel, Snikt and myself have done. As Triceron has said he is doing something different to what we are. Besides the game aint out yet and these models are far from being finished. Personally i haven't seen what you've done before so you're currently in no position to comment! So the team and i shall carry on as normal :P

[Richtofen]

Well I'll join in if you guys want me. I've got acess to photoshop & 3dsmax6

[Fend]

:P Blackfang, i love your devil fish. I just think that Tricerons doing great work to and the two look different. on the other hand, I am a manager for several other modding teams. It doesnt matter what i have done here, im quoteing from experiance in other game forums.

anyway, dont get angry at me. i just get worried when i look at everyone doing their own thing, and then seeing 4 different versions of a hormagaunt hopping across a battlefield.

Sorry if i offended you. i have posted before my admiration for what your team is doing mate. belive me, im on your side.

[turel]

Richtofen, those are some awesome models dude, if you want to work with us then please do!

[Richtofen]

thnx:beer: :beer:
I think the broadside stuff is a tad high poly. I'll trim it down and see about getting it to you so you can add it to the crisis body (ill get the jetpack covers and the Smart missile system done too). I've been thinking, for the commander, have him in a Crisis Suit (with differing colours/designs) and give him similar sensors to Farsight (the double ones on the 'ears') which will help single him out as the leader. So yeah, if you want me to make some stuff (im not all that good with humanoids:Slap: ) like weapons etc ill get it done and some help with design work. :werd:

[Richtofen]

So when will I be able to get into the forums?

[Raven of the Da]

concerning crisis suits i was hoping someone would apply some creative freedom and make the foot a little more believable ie. flatter bottom, wider/longer

[Rampart]

I'm big into the Tau, and I've been thinking more along the units themselves, things like loadouts, upgrades, build order, etc. , as opposed to the models, which I admittedly suck at. I'm a decent programmer however :)
at any rate, I'd like into the mod if that's cool, I'm PM'ing one of the mods to see if it's okay if we discuss NDA'ed stuff in the private mod forums, otherwise I can't discuss what I'd like to until the beta opens up

*edit* wow, dyntheos is fast, he nixed the idea of posting it in the 'clan' forums, and he's exactly right. perhaps we can start something on the beta forums and transfer that later to the clan forums when the NDA is lifted

[philgreg]

Any unit in the tau codex shpuld be included.

[Blackfang]

A little progress on the devilfish extruded some bits here and there and lowered the polys to a proper 4500 tris and still going! :D

well here it is...
http://hosting.hwcommunity.com/040723143324-devilfishfront.GIF

I think maybe the engines are a little too tall actually but you people can tell me what u think!

[Strangefate]

you sure you're talking tris and not quads ? there's a lot of crowded areas there. You could easily get rid of more than 50% of the polys on the model, but i guess you'll do that at the end (?)

[Blackfang]

Yes its tris not quads, that was a mistake i made in the beginning, and i know there are some cluttered areas on there and they wont be for much longer when i've finished the model, i'll kill most of them on the hull which should plummet the amount of tris on it! Be patient :P

[Shakrith]

I think the Fire Warrior needs a few more polys, it looks good but too angular.

Kroot are really not too important, the Tau are what really matter.

Battlesuits could have have the standard jump function.

Stealth suits can have the standard Infiltrate function.

Ethereal would be nice as 2nd commander.

Orca dropships are a must as troop delivery units. The landing pad is quite nice.

Would it be useful to bump-map the grooves in armour (esp. vehicles and tanks) rather than have the awfully flat painted-on-lines that are so popular, and as opposed to the poly-chewing fully modeled grooves?

(sorry for so many unrelated things in my post)

Good job!

Double Post

What about modifying Guardsmen with Tau stuff to make human auxiliaries? That would be a cool basic unit.

And Earth caste tau would be the worker unit. They co-operate to achieve things, so rather than solo builders like Bonesingers they could work as a squad.

[IllustriusChen]

The engines look cool to me blackfang.

Nice model.

Anymore news on your work turel?

[Rampart]

Okay, I came up with these ideas over a couple really quiet days at work. I cleaned out anything I think would break the beta NDA. hopefully these are some useful ideas to use. be aware these are just quick notes so they contradict in places, thought it best to just put down everything I thought of.

Preliminary Tau Lineup for Dawn of War Mod

Units and Equipment Options
-Construction unit- base off drone chassis or use earth caste engineer? Lean towards drones, earth caste aren’t going to run around on a battlefield.

*earth caste automated factory for unit upgrades

-Pathfinders-
initial squad size: 4
max squad size: 8
weapons-
pulse carbines
markerlights
upgrades-
up to 3 rail rifles, equivilent to sniper rifles, possibly damage light armored vehicles as well. best make anti-inf and hvy inf, light dmg to vehicles.
either emp and/or photon grenades (engine limits to 1?)
shas’ui upgrade to squad leader, increases moral and slight CC increase
infiltration upgrade

-Firewarriors-
initial squad size: 6
max squad size: 12
weapons-
pulse rifles
upgrades-
shas’ui-same as pathfinders, except also carries markerlight
emp and/or photon grenades
‘upgrade’ up to 6 units with pulse carbines, no cost, very fast build time

-Crisis Suit Team- constructed at ‘Barracks’ after upgrade/additional building? or construct at different building?
initial squad size: 1
max squad size: 3
jump jet equipped
weapons-
twin burst cannons
missle pod
upgrades-
swap out twin BC to either twin plasma rifles or twin fusion blasters
team leader upgrade- squad moral, CC ability improved,

-Gun drones squad-
initial squad size: 4
max squad size: 8
jump jet equipped
weapons-
TL pulse carbines
upgrades-
up to 4 upgrade to heavy drones, either TL burst cannons or burst cannon and markerlight

-Stealth Suit Team
initial squad size: 3
max squad size: 6
jump jet equipped
weapons:
burst cannons
stealth system-allows infiltration and reduces damage from ranged weapons, infiltration activation distance/time reduced
upgrades
shas’vre-has improved HtH, improves moral, and has markerlight

-Ethereal (primary command unit?)
character
equipped with honor blade, hardwired drone controller and/or shield generator
may join firewarrior squads
greatly improves moral to all units
all units within visual range of etheral break if etheral dies
can call in manta strike

Shas’el (secondary command unit?)

Broadside Battlesuit Team
initial squad size: 1
max squad size: 3
weapons-
TL railguns
SMS
upgrdes-
team leader, similar to Crisis suits
support systems

Hammerhead Gunship
buildable with either railgun or ion cannon, cannot switch back and forth
rail gun has a ‘toggle’ to switch between solid shot and submunition(possible with engine?)
2 burst cannons upgradeable to SMS
decoy launcher upgrade, reduces ranged damage
multi-tracker, improved firing rate? faster movement?


Devilfish APC
comes with BC, 2 mounted drones
decoy launcher and multitracker upgrades

Tau Super Unit? may have to invent as Tau don't have any 'super' units like bloodthirster, avatar, etc.
manta is too large, equal to a titan. perhaps commander o'shova with his power halberd? that or a super heavy class walker/tank/skimmer

Tau Turrets
built with TL burst cannons, upgradeable to TL MP, FG, or PR
possibly with a redeploy option to match tau mobile warfare?
possible rail gun upgrade instead?

Buildings
HQ-construction drones and pathfinders
Barracks-firewarriors
Suit Automated Maintenance and Arming Station(SAMAS)-allows deployment of crisis, stealth, broadside suits
Earth Caste Commlink-upgrade building
Skimmer Hanger-allows deployment of hammerheads, devilfish

Weapons
Pulse Rifles- long ranged anti-infantry
Pulse Carbines- short ranged anti-infantry, depletes morale
Burst Cannon- short ranged anti-infantry, high RoF
*all pulse weapons have better performance vs light vehicles than bolters

Flamer- hard to fit into crisis suit design, possibly upgrade to TL flamers? CC is no place for Tau

Fusion Blaster- short range anti-tank (marines don't have meltas, so possibly don't include these?)

Ion Cannon- anti-hvy infantry/light vehicles, high RoF
good counter for termies, oblits, nobs

Markerlight-improves accuracy against target unit, possibly as a ‘spell’ or toggle effect. possibly make duration longer than recharge, but if targeted on another unit wears off on first? engine limitation possible.
could call in Seeker missiles from off map or from equipped vehicles

Missile Pod- anti-vehicle wouldn’t really match with description, but would overlap with PR vs hvy inf. possible support system?

Plasma Rifle- long ranged anti-hvy infantry

Railgun slug- very anti-tank, limited effect vs infantry
needs to ‘deploy’ on broadside suits

Railgun submunition- anti-hvy infantry/infantry, arty effect?

Smart missile system- anti-infantry, no LOS to fire, better RoF than burst cannons, longer range, needs to ‘deploy’ on broadside suits, equal performance to pulse weapons

Seeker missile- anti-tank, called in by markerlights

Support Systems- either buildable squad upgrades or overall unit upgrades. leaning towards squad upgrades.
crisis suits get 3 options, shield generator (armor value increase), drone controller (small armor increase because of drones, additional pulse weapon fire), or missile pod (greatly increases dmg vs infantry, light vehicles, no additional armor). can’t really see target locks or multitrackers as ‘buildable’, engine probably limits squad targeting to 1 target, and all units can fire all weapons as it is anyway, hence the missile pod as the ‘support’ option

broadside suits get shield generator (as above), drone controller (as above), or multitracker (reduces/removes ‘deploy’ time for railguns and SMS)


Misc. Ideas
hammerhead submunition works as ‘artillery’ unit, makes them very adaptable and mobile
or submunition just does more damage to infantry units, use seeker missiles for ‘artillery’
any unit with a markerlight can call in a seeker missle at a targeted unit/building, seeker missiles are buildable upgrade on hammerheads/devilfish, for balance would probably have to ‘build’ each missile, or have markerlight ‘spell’ have a long recharge time. may not be possible with engine, in which case calls off map seeker missiles
off map seeker missile 'spell' for markerlight equipped units probalby best, with balanced recharge time. make submunition the Tau 'artillery' unit.
could include Kroot squad, as only 1 or 2 additional units. infiltrates, has way better CC than Tau, gets additional bonuses from cover (reflects jungle fighting)
attachable krootox with kroot gun for anti-hvy infantry/vehicle, kroot hounds harder to include, unless you can attach one squad to another, possible engine limitation.
kroot addition makes tau very nasty, with pathfinders, stealth suits, and kroot all capable of infiltration.

[Richtofen]

-Construction unit- base off drone chassis or use earth caste engineer? Lean towards drones, earth caste aren’t going to run around on a battlefield.

I'd say Earth Caste workers, but drones are easier to make :)

[Rampart]

the earth caste are the builders and engineers of the Tau, along with being scientists, architects, farmers, etc.
if you think about it, the earth caste are probably the biggest caste in the Tau, cause everyone who isn't a pilot or scout, a administrator or trader, or a warrior would be in the earth caste.
maybe an earth caste construction worker in a civilian construction version of the crisis suits. no jet packs, way less armor, along the lines of the walking forklift from Aliens. perhaps a 'work drone' upgrade that allows it to build/repair faster.

[Mal'Caor]

I'm enjoying this. Hopefully it will be ready soon after the game's release.

[Shakrith]

Drones could be the basic unit for Tau, with a post-production "upgrade" system to make them gun/shield/heavy/recon (new one, fast with good sight)/builder drones, working as squads. Kinda like grots but mechanical.

[Mal'Caor]

Tau could use their human servants to do that as well. Kroot in it would be a nice addition as well. A huge kroot tent where they are enlisted from

[Richtofen]

Rampart have you got acess to the tau forums yet? If not, give Snkit/Turel/Blackfang a pm, you have to make a new account in the clan forums section.

[FireWarriorUK]

I had a big ol' list of stuff to suggest but a quick scan through Ramparts uber list told me that he had everything covered and had therefore beaten me too it *hangs head in shame*.

I thought that I'd just come on here and say what an amazing job you guys, both the modders and the posters are doing.

Posters: your input is, as you can probably see, very much appreciated, keep it up!

Modders:I'd like to thank you for what you are doing and what you are striving to achieve. It's made so many of us so very happy.

People who are comparing this to the other Tau mods(especially Tricerons work): Stop it! This mod and his are completely separate works and are both trying to achieve separtate aims, Triceron is trying to make a single player campaign mod complete with story, it will only include a few units but it should still be a blast to play. This mod is focusing on including the Tau race as a whole into DoW, very different aims = very different projects.

[Richtofen]

I've been currently writing up buildings/research tech tree. I don't have the beta so I will miss some things but after reading plenty of previews etc I think I get the gist of what is what. I think the best bet is if all the modders write one up and we pick bits and pieces that we like and put it together to make one uber tech tree.

[turel]

Sorry I haven't done much lately, but I am having problems with GMAX, and still have no copy of 3DSMax. :(

So it seems the rest of the modders will have to make up for me until I can get something done. :)

[MechaTemplar]

The broadside suits should have the option of upgrading to plasma or fusion rifles as it can mount those if i remember correctly. They should also have the standard upgrades to make their ranged combat skill better. One idea I had for a commander special ability is "For the Greater Good" whatever squad that commander is in half the squad is either killed or has their hp reduced to half and the other half has a boost to hp and ranged or melee combat for a short time.

[kais 54]

how do u become a moderator and this thread is the best modding thread yet its bling bling

[Fend]

The broadside suits should have the option of upgrading to plasma or fusion rifles as it can mount those if i remember correctly. They should also have the standard upgrades to make their ranged combat skill better. One idea I had for a commander special ability is "For the Greater Good" whatever squad that commander is in half the squad is either killed or has their hp reduced to half and the other half has a boost to hp and ranged or melee combat for a short time.

I think "For the greater good" should be an Etheral / Commander ability that makes the squad unbreakable for a while. Or sumthing.

Aditionally, For the greater good could be used as a way of boosting the taus much needed melee combat score to compensate for a lack of kroot if they arnt included. Ofcourse it wouldnt make them uber, just tough enough to dish it back because they are trying to fight for the greater good.

I dno, i dont play tau.

[Richtofen]

I've got some stuff planned :)

I just wish Turel/Blackfang/SKnit would come online so we could talk about it :(.

[Blackfang]

hey guys,

Sorry i havent been on for a while, im moving house TWICE!!! Im sending this from a net cafe. bare with me people i have finished the devilfish hammerhead and orca and im working on there skinning.

Again sorry about the lack of being here.

Blackfang

[Shorty]

I have an idea about the mod. It seems that no one have come up with a super unit to the Tau. Well, i've been thinking and come up with this: why don't use a pack of Great Knarlocs? Because they are like Kroot T-rexes Having maybe three of them makes them as strong as one Bloodthirster. But then, ofcourse, you'd have to use Kroots aswell.

About the Kroots. Couldn't the Tau and the Kroots have seperate buildings, but the Kroots would only have one medium-sizes building that the Kroots, the Great Knarloc and all their upgrades would be made in?

As of yet I havn't made a solution to how the building is built or who is going to repair it, but I'll come up with something. :banghead:

[Maximus Decimus]

Greetings,

Some excellent work you guys have done on the models but have a few questions regarding the "stealth battlesuit" and tau "super unit".

Mod Creators:

- Any of you guys in the DoW beta? If any of you are you should note that (a) "cloaked" battlesuit(s)" may become extremely unbalanced in DoW. At the moment only two things can detect invisible units and those are heroes like the force commander or chaos lord and Lvl 3 Listening posts that come at a high price and thus are rarely seen.

- I don't know if you need a super unit for Tau depending on how strong you make anti-armor and anti-inf weapons. The marines do not have a "super unit" but instead have an extremely rounded force. I believe the same is true for the Tau and would find super units + broadsides + crises suites + hammerhead + inf extremely overwhelming. I believe you don't need a super unit unless you put some serious nerfs on rail weapons and crises suits as I see them as potentially very powerful and versatile units.

- Do crises suits count as vehicles or walkers? Walkers can take cover while vehicles cannot.

[Astral2643]

Surely the stealth thing doesnt matter - in the mod you could just change what detects stealth units, to make them balanced

[Shorty]

The marines do not have a "super unit" but instead have an extremely rounded force.

:naughty: Space Marines does have a super unit. They got Terminators and Land Raiders. If you have maybe two Land Raiders with Terminators they are as strong as one Bloodthirster. Remember that every race in DoW get some special unit(s) when they take a "relic", so why wouldn't Tau get that?

By the way, couldn't the Skyray be the artillery tank for the Tau? How cool wouldn't that be! :D The only change from the tabletop game would be that it would have unlimited number of missiles.

[Richtofen]

Skyray is anti air...

Stealth suits would have infiltrating (thats a given) but their stealth armour would probably just reduce enemy weapon accuracy.


- Do crises suits count as vehicles or walkers? Walkers can take cover while vehicles cannot.
Ciaphas Cain says they are Dreadnoughts, but I'm sure that we would make them heavy infantry with lots of armour and hit points.


- I don't know if you need a super unit for Tau depending on how strong you make anti-armor and anti-inf weapons. The marines do not have a "super unit" but instead have an extremely rounded force. I believe the same is true for the Tau and would find super units + broadsides + crises suites + hammerhead + inf extremely overwhelming. I believe you don't need a super unit unless you put some serious nerfs on rail weapons and crises suits as I see them as potentially very powerful and versatile units.

True, marines get semi-super units, but they also get some super stuff that doesn't require a relic. Orbital Bombardment is free when a Relay is built, not to mention drop podding is god :). I'd probably agree, Tau should get slightly better stuff from Relics. Maybe a Barracuda strafing run, or a Tiger Shark Drone Squadron drop. Maybe even an Ethereal could require a relic (relics are important stuff and that would certainly interest an ethereal). We'll think of something creative :)

[Shorty]

Richtofen, you are right about that.

I have made a list and notes of the different units. :deal: I have really been thinking this time.

Buildt in HQ
? - Worker
Gun Drones - Scout troops (eg Guardians, Scouts, etc)

Buildt in "Barracks"
Fire Warriors - Basic troops
Stealth Suits - "Assault" troops
Commander in Crisis Suit - Leader (May choose any Crisis equipment)

Buildt in "Work shop"
Devilfish - Transport (May select to have Pathfinders)
Hammerhead - Tank (it has Ion cannon at first, may upgrade to Rail gun or Rail gun with sub-munition wich makes it an artillery tank just like the Eldar Fire Prism)
Crisis Suits - Heavy weapon troops (May choose any Crisis equipment)
Broadside Suits - Extreme Heavy weapon support troops (need Relic to build)

Buildt in specal building (maybe shrine or something like that)
Ethereal - Leader (need relic to build)

I hope you like it. :D

[Rhyos]

? = random Earth Caste person. You could model a thick-set Tau.

[Triceron]

If gun drones are your primary scout-units, then what about the Pathfinders? :)

Also, if need be, you might need some Kroot units in there just to fill in some extra areas. Need a Uber unit? Why not a Great Gnarloc?

[theimpaler]

I dont think tau should have an uber unit, because they dont realy have one in the table top, they should be like space marines. :fencing: . There is no way you can not make kroot though. i would love to see comander O'shova as the comander. Cant wait to see the finished skimers and the orca, everything looks awsome so far! :sam:

[specineff]

im a tad worried as others have stated over this tau mod. i realise that triceron is making a single player mod (which i think is something we all need to think about) but so far, Tricerons work has blown me away, and i cant help but look at the other attempts of units hes done and think his looked for the most part better.

i realise im saying what others have before me, but i think at the end of the day if tricerons mod looks a hell of a lot sweeter, then we're all going to demand he give his skins and models to the other team doing the multiplayer mod -.-.

good luck to all of you though, youve all clearly got talent.

P.S:- can you modders for the multiplayer tau race PLEASE get in touch with dark melinium (sp). seriously guys, we need to bunch together to get race balances etc and the guy took the time to make the site, so atleast send your new pictures etc to him so weve a database of works and we know exatly how far each group has gotten.

cheers

[Shorty]

If gun drones are your primary scout-units, then what about the Pathfinders? :)

Also, if need be, you might need some Kroot units in there just to fill in some extra areas. Need a Uber unit? Why not a Great Gnarloc?

:muffy: The Great Knarloc as a super unit was my idea (read some posts further up), but someone said that the the Kroot would be too hard to do so I droped my Kroot-ideas. :(

[Sumikris]

1.
Fire Warriors
Kroot
Crisis Suits
Stealth Suits
Pathfinders
Devilfish
Hammerhead
Broadside Suit
Drones
Krootox
Aun'Shi Kroot Shaper

2.Kroot Shaper
Aun'Shi

3. The Kroots should be mainly hand to hand
The Tau should have some kind of laser knives
Aun'Shi should have a double blade
The Kroot Shaper should be hand to hand also
The suits should mainly long range and artillery

4. Drones for fast Assault
Stealth team for scouts
pathfinders for main soldiers( like chaos marines for chaos marines or gaurdians for eldars)
Devilfish for transports (they should have skimmer or jump)
hammerheads for heavy tanks( like prisms for Eldar)
crisis battlesuit for walker (like space marine drednaughs or ork killa kans)
firewarriors for heavy soldiers (like terminators for space marines)
Broadside Battlesuit for walker-artillery
Kroots for heavy melee soldiers
Aun'Shi for primary commander
Kroot Shaper for Secondary commander


Hope you like my idea!

[Shorty]

Sumikris, I'm not trying to be unfair, but many of your suggestions are unrealistic. No one else get to have specail character, so why should the Tau get that? And what's up with having pathfinders as the main troops? :confused: They are special ops guys.

[PhoenixLord]

Sumikris, I'm not trying to be unfair, but many of your suggestions are unrealistic. No one else get to have specail character, so why should the Tau get that? And what's up with having pathfinders as the main troops? :confused: They are special ops guys.

Shorty is right. Pathfinders are armed with marker lights that improve targeting for other tau. If you do make them main infentry (no idea why you would) give them a rail rifle upgrade.

[Richtofen]

Since DoW doesn't have bikes, then I guess we (sadly) won't be able to put these little beauties in :(
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Richtofen-Tauship1.jpg
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Richtofen-Tauship2.jpg
I must say they look BRILLIANT! Can someone say Covenant Ghost?

However, the Heavy Fusion Blaster turret in the background gives us another hammerhead weapons option though :). There seems to be another option there but it is obscured by the edge of the photo :(. Also there looks like a fusion blaster upgrade for the devilfish, which is good for us too, more options! :D

I hope Triceron will come and help us that would be sweet:)
BTW, Tri, u could add in the Tau LAVs (The landspeeder ghosts) to your campaign since its a campaign and they could scout/guard the devilfish.

[Triceron]

Whoa, where did you get the pics for those babies? Got any more info on em? Chapter approved units or what? Ahh! You've got me all intrigued!

[Richtofen]

:)

Found a link to a link to them from Portent.

They are forgeworld units.
I've heard that forgeworld are doing a heap of stuff for all races now that will all be official and in a special codex called Imperial Armour Volume III: The Taros Campaign (Tau vs humans)

They are sheer brilliance:)

btw I found out the Fire Warrior LAV (light assault vehicle, the top one) is called the Piranha while the Pathfinder one is called the Tetra, to continue the Seafood theme of Tau vehicle names (yes Tetra is a fish, a small one).

btw I also found this:
http://groups.msn.com/TheBattleBarge/cangd2004fwnewreleases.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1952

Tau listening post anyone?

Better yet, I think you will all owe me a glass of beer (thats one EACH) after you visit this link I found:
http://groups.msn.com/TheBattleBarge/cangd2004fwnewreleases.msnw?Page=1

Have fun drooling!

There are what appears to be a twin linked large fusion blaster hammerhead turret (i call it heavy fusion blaster for lack of a better name), twin linked 'heavy' burst cannon turret, twin linked 'heavy' plasma rifle turret and what looks like a twin linked either 2 smart missile systems or like a million missile pods (with what looks like 2 markerlights on either side). Thats another 3-4 vehicles for our mod :) HOORAY! Now we don't need Kroot!

[Sumikris]

Sorry, but now I have a different idea.

How about pathfinders as builders. (They are the ears and eyes of the tau, so why not?) They should also have infiltration.

And the primary commander should be the etheral, not the Aun'Shi.

I agree with Skewerd, the tau should be more pricy, cause they're technologically advanced.

Besides, what about giving the pathfinders (on high research) some kind of orbital gun.

Sorry!!!

[Shorty]

:)

Found a link to a link to them from Portent.

They are forgeworld units.
I've heard that forgeworld are doing a heap of stuff for all races now that will all be official and in a special codex called Imperial Armour Volume III: The Taros Campaign (Tau vs humans)

They are sheer brilliance:)

btw I found out the Fire Warrior LAV (light assault vehicle, the top one) is called the Piranha while the Pathfinder one is called the Tetra, to continue the Seafood theme of Tau vehicle names (yes Tetra is a fish, a small one).

btw I also found this:
http://groups.msn.com/TheBattleBarge/cangd2004fwnewreleases.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1952

Tau listening post anyone?

Better yet, I think you will all owe me a glass of beer (thats one EACH) after you visit this link I found:
http://groups.msn.com/TheBattleBarge/cangd2004fwnewreleases.msnw?Page=1

Have fun drooling!

There are what appears to be a twin linked large fusion blaster hammerhead turret (i call it heavy fusion blaster for lack of a better name), twin linked 'heavy' burst cannon turret, twin linked 'heavy' plasma rifle turret and what looks like a twin linked either 2 smart missile systems or like a million missile pods (with what looks like 2 markerlights on either side). Thats another 3-4 vehicles for our mod :) HOORAY! Now we don't need Kroot!

Oh. My. God! :jaw:

[Triceron]

Hey Skewerd,

I like that layout, but there are a few things I'd change.

The builder, scout, infantry, assault, fast attack, transport and tank/artillery are all fine, and they sort of reflect an Eldar army build.

For your commanders however, I think all regular Ethereals should be the Melee Commander(Symbols/Honourblade) while your spellcasting hero would be a Shas'O Commander in Crisis Suit. The Ethereal would have an aura similar to what the Avatar does (Makes units nearby unbreakable) and the Commander could have certain weapon attacks be used as spells (Like firing a smart missle and tossing troops around). Aun'Shi is a special character, and there aren't really any other special characters in the game to speak of.

Also I think Crisis Suits and Broadsides should both be Vehicles. Crisis Suits could be like your Shuriken Platforms(But upgradable with Flamers/Fusion/Pulse Cannon and multitargetable) while Broadsides would be similar to Brightlance Plats (But with Missle launchers and multitarget too, sort of like mini Predators). Crisis would be anti-infantry ranged specialises while Broadsides are your anti-vehicle.

Also I think Gundrones/Shield drones should be seperate units that cost vehicle cap, but can be attached to squads (Dropping the cap when attached, like brightlance). Gundrones would have morale-depleting carbines while Shield Drones even out damage taken by the squad and soak some up.

[Skewerd]

Triceron,
I'm kinda swaying to your ideas come to think of it.
It'd be pretty cool to see a crisis suit commander.

And yea, my old list had 2 seperate crisis suit types. + I also like the idea of separate drones.

I'll modify the list :beer: cheers mate.

New Idea/List, old post deleted this is version 3
----------------------------------------------
An Idea that came to mind, is make Tau very large-squad-dependant.
Have thier troops cost more, and take up more veh/inf cap, yet reinforcable to larger numbers.
So we'll see masses, but the player will actually be controlling a rather "small" force in terms of how many actual squads under his command. Might make the Tau play a bit differently no?


Maybe:
Builder: Earth Caste Tau? lots of people seem to sway towards this idea
Caster HQ: Tau Shas'O Commander in Crisis Suit
Melee HQ: Tau Ethereal Caste
Scout: Pathfinders (Shas'ui upgrade/upgradable to rail rifles)
Reinforcable from 4 => 8 pathfinders, Morale Busters, Accuracy Aura?
Infantry: Fire Warriors (Commander upgrade)
Reinforcable from 6 => 12 warriors + 2 drones
Heavy/Fast Attack: Stealth Armour (Team leader upgrade)
Reinforcable from 3 => 6, Have Infiltration
Assault: Kroots (Shaper upgrade/Kroot hound upgrade)
Reinforcable from 8 => 16 + 2 hounds? I'm not too sure, Kroot #'s will be tricky
Fast Attack Vehicle Tau Skimmer! (maybe come out blank so you can choose one of those 2 versions? I'm thinking Recon or Attack?)
Jump Ability
Transport: Devilfish
Jump ability
Tank/Arty: Hammerhead (Railgun/Fusion Blaster/H.Burst Cannon/Missiles upgrade)
comes standard with Ion Cannon, Jump Ability
Anti-Inf Walker: Crisis Suit (Flamers/Fusion/Pulse upgrades)
Reinforcable 1 => 3, Jump Ability
Anti-Veh Walker: Broadside Battle Suit
Reinforcable 1 => 3, Jump Ability
Support: Drones (respective Gun/Shield/Markerlight versions from one building?)
These would work like eldar plats in terms of cap usage and squad attachment, each having it's own effect, 1.morale-depleting carbines 2.Added squad "armor" 3. Added squad accuracy (great to attach to a broadside squad?)


Any opinions?
--------------------------------------------

[King Raa]

Since DoW doesn't have bikes, then I guess we (sadly) won't be able to put these little beauties in :(


Couldn't you just get the model for a bike and instead of putting it on ground, making it like a bit higher... and then make it faster, perhaps base on one of the more all terrain of the vehicles

[Richtofen]

bikes don't suit dow

Double Post

I thought of having drones as a unit upgrade (like unit champions) but with a max of 2. Only problem is that the upgrade panel will become cluttered with the crisis suits and maybe even too full.

[theimpaler]

Just make the new tau piranahs and tetras like space marine land speeders.

[Skewerd]

bikes don't suit dow

Double Post

I thought of having drones as a unit upgrade (like unit champions) but with a max of 2. Only problem is that the upgrade panel will become cluttered with the crisis suits and maybe even too full.

Aye, my first version of the list (deleted) had drones as upgrades, but they can work just as well being like eldar plats
(Maybe drones can be build from LP's?)

[theimpaler]

All drones could be like servo skulls only dont lose hp over time.

[SpartanArchon]

Seeing these new models, I feel disappointed that every single one of you (gross generalisation, sorry, can't help it) thinks that they cannot be included in a Tau mod because
bikes don't suit dow

Pah! I can understand maybe SM and CSM assault bikes, used in CC as well (THAT wouldn't suit DoW) however these awesome new models are for TAU - remember them? the guys who have as much CC ability as an amputated llama - but make up for it with big guns!
And these jetbikes for some strange reason, not sure why, but somehow remind me of Eldar Vypers... hmmm...
And did they include eldar vypers in the game? YES!
I don't see why these vehicles cant be just like tau versions of vypers - they don't have CC ability, but are fast skimmers which can jump and have guns. As simple as that. Bikes dont suit DoW...


EDIT: As I was scanning the Tau codex, I noticed that on the picture on page 9, where it has a description of the castes, if you look at the Tau guy with the Chinese flat-cone-shaped hat, look at the symbol on his robes: it is the water caste symbol! (There is also another water caste guy in the background.) Probably not of any use to you modders, but just interesting to see what the water caste look like.

[ThrowN]

If you want to get an idea of the watercaste, just look at this specialist-games-one for inquisitor:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99111399057&orignav=300808

[Shakrith]

I think an Aun (ethereal) would be the caster commander with good CC abilities and heaps of abilities which, rather than doing direct damage, boost certain things about the squad on which it is cast. A Commander would be the guns-blazing commander with heaps of weapon upgrades and an aura and no castables.

These new vehicles (Tetra/pirahna) can help fill out the tau vehicle section.


Here's an idea: This mod is definitely the most eagerly-anticipated, with Tau being the race that most people want into the game. Now, what Relic could do, is release a pseudo-expansion for free over the net like they did with IC, and this mod could be packaged and helped along by them, plus more maps and skins from them too. Basically, make this mod the core of a small, free expansion, and then Relic get lots of people interested, and the mod gets great distribution and professional packaging. Would it work?

[Richtofen]

For the drones, I had Drone Controller as a building. It allows drone squad reinforments, can build drone squadrons and heavy drone squadrons (burst cannons, upgradable to plasma rifles) and recon drone (servo skull that doesn't lose health but has marker light instead of the building damage ability skulls have). Also contains upgrades like armour/one that increases drone morale etc. I'll finish up my doc and post it up for your constructive (I hope) criticism :)

[Shakrith]

Ok. I had a think about this and I've thought of some gameplay mechanics:

Buildings: The Tau basic building can construct pathfinders (upgradable with photon grenade launchers: fire knockdown/morale damage grenades) and Earth caste workers. Then they have the the Landing Pad, upon which Orcas bring down Fire Warriors, and with a Suit Armoury (name pending?) can build Stealth Suits. After the Landing Pad is built, they can build a Technology Bay (name?), which conducts research. These are held like the Thirster, and each Bay can have five at a time. They cost a moderate amount and Pathfinder units gain the ability to deploy them as a targeted ability. The next building in the tech tree is the Suit Armoury, which builds the Commander and Crisis/Broadside suits. They can be deployed via Deep Strike. Then there's a vehicle building (name?) which can initially produce Tetra squadrons and Pirahnas, as well as Hammerhead transports, and Hammerheads are available as an upgrade from the Technology Bay. Finally there is the Arsenal, which is basically a superweapon facility building missiles (can hold up to five at a time) which are targeted as a Pathfinder ability. They are not "fire and forget" but have around the power of a single lance from the Orbital Bombardment. The Arsenal also has heavy weapon upgrades allowing rail weapons. Drones are constructed from the Listening Relay, and with the Technology Bay, heavy drones are available. This tech tree is continually progressive and there is a lot of individual unit research (for Hammerhead, rail weapons...) involved.

The Weaponry: Tau pulse weaponry works by (this shouldn't work, physically, but GW says it does...) accelerating particles to produce a plasma bolt which is basically held together in an electromagnetic field and launched thus. In the artwork it seems to have a muzzle flare shaped like a translucent, glowing blue hemispherical flash. The pulse weapon fires two distinct spheroids with a small glowing trail.

Rail weaponry, contrary to belief, does not fire an energy beam, fires a stream of solid slugs which chew through anything. However, this offers problems for viewing the shots, so maybe it might be feasible to show it glowing bluish or something. The railgun can fire in solid or submunition mode, so there could be munition type command, which is essentially a toggle between low damage/blast (submunition) and high power/single hit (slug), working like fleet of foot or infiltrate but with the commands not "on/off" but stating munition type.

Photon grenades are in essence flashbangs with a fancy name: a light source is turned on and off quickly, and surrounding terrain becomes washed out, tinged with blue, over a moderately wide area, for only a short time.

A burst cannon works similarly to pulse weapons, but fires lots of smaller bolts quickly.

The Ion Cannon is possibly the best for graphical candy: it uses a similar method to pulse or rail weapons to propel a continuous stream of ionised plasma. This would be quite wide, and would look a bit like pulse shots (same substance) but in a big stream!

All these weapons, and what they do and look like, is based on scientific knowledge (all except for pulse weapons are already theorised, the Ion cannon famously by Tesla) and the blue colour is mostly aesthetic, though blue-white is the highest heat colour.

These are just my thoughts on Tau, aesthetically and gameplay-wise.

[Skewerd]

Lots of these ideas are sounding really sweet *nods*
Richtofen, Drone squadrons? maybe make them in 3's? and able to attach to Pathfinders/Firewarriors/Stealths/Crisis Suit squads? yes no? :)

I wonder, what's the status on the mod?
(Also wondering if they need more people? A lot of time has been dumped on my lap, so there's a good chance I can help on DoW mods like this (light modeling, concept art, ideas, etc.), and that Inquisitor one i'm trying to jump-start)

[Richtofen]

Rail weaponry, contrary to belief, does not fire an energy beam, fires a stream of solid slugs which chew through anything. However, this offers problems for viewing the shots, so maybe it might be feasible to show it glowing bluish or something. The railgun can fire in solid or submunition mode, so there could be munition type command, which is essentially a toggle between low damage/blast (submunition) and high power/single hit (slug), working like fleet of foot or infiltrate but with the commands not "on/off" but stating munition type.


Yeah, stupid fire warrior had them like lasers or something dumb :(.
Since rail guns would shoot damned fast, I was just thinking that we should just have a trail of fire where they slug has ignited the air.


Richtofen, Drone squadrons?
Well.... they are drones...in a squadron :)
I don't know if you know but they are a fast attack choice in 40k. but it all really depends on how we end up doing the drones (unit upgrades/attachments).
Skeward, if you want in, you need some skillz but get in touch with Turel/Blackfang, they will say yay or nay.

[NightBringer]

you could possibly have the drone produced in 2's, and can either stay as a pair and attach to a unit, OR u can re-enforce the squadron up2 a max of 8??

i like the buildings ideas, except 1 thing, i think the orca platform would bring in stealth suits, firewarriors, and crisis suits (if u look on forgeworld, the model in 40k can hold up2 12 of them :)) and your vehicle bay can produce heavy gun drones, hammerhead, devilfish, and broadsides?? then u have like a etheral council building that produces your commander and possibly an etheral aswell (which would have abilities and bonus's on units)

[PureChaos]

id like to see gun drones.

[Shakrith]

Vehicle bay should be for vehicles; I think the idea of a progressive (i.e. tierless, but with lots of requirements) tech tree would favour battlesuits from their own building, and drones from their own too. Maybe.

I like the idea of a fiery streak in the wake of a railgun shot, it would allow it to be very visible while staying within the bounds of physics. This is just a very, very fast bullet creating a friction stream. Maybe it could collapse and suck forward into the slug's slipstream, rather than just dissipating or fading. It basically dissipates forwards.

Tau, if my memory serves me well, work in base 6 (or is it 12), so squads could start as 6 (or for suits and drones, 3) and build up to 12, 18 or 24. Just a little fluff-based touch.

When jumping, the Tau engines on their vehicles ar designed to tilt back to do a VTOL hop, so that could be the animation.

You could have 2 basic types of drone (built from Landing Pad/Listening Relay/core structure) and they would be Shield and Gun: shield drones have quite good armour and have an aura that redirects damage from close (quite close) allies onto them. Disposable, attachable meat shields, pun intended. gun drones start with pulse carbines and can upgrade to burst cannon.

[Richtofen]

I'm still working on my ideas of buildings and getting a friend to draw concept art.

[Shorty]

How is the mod doing? The tread have been quiet for some time now, so im just wondering if you guys are making progress.

Good luck btw!!! :up:

[khib yusa]

Hi there,

I remember reading in a bit of Tau fluff that the railguns had a huge trail of fire behind the slug and that was the only way for the enemy to see where the XV88's were. The rest of it sounds pretty aesthetically pleasing, you just have to remember that the pulse rifles have a fourth extra range than the bolters and flashlights (lasguns for the non-cynical 40K gamers), even though their rapd-fire range is the same as the bolter and the flashlight respectively:wtf2: :screwy:

The Tau work in base 8. 8 digits on their hands therefore GW decided to make them count in base 8, it does make sense even if 100 in Tau is only 64! A maxed out squad is a base and a half or 12, any bigger and you go against the fluff.

The mod looks gorgeous btw. I hope the game is as good as it looks.

Glory to your Cadres and Kindreds!

Master Shaper Khib Yusa

[Richtofen]

I hope so too!

Relic says they are releasing new content for DoW. If it is new units for races then we should probably do the same, add in stuff that got cut before release. Such as kroot/humans/tetra/piranha etc.

[Scudd]

Should organize one group to do all Tau, and one to do a full Kroot list, as in..not just carnivores, hounds, and krootox(es?). Could do 2 full blown armies and then simply use some of the kroot units for the Tau.

Because....i'd really love to play Kroot.

[NightBringer]

Should organize one group to do all Tau, and one to do a full Kroot list, as in..not just carnivores, hounds, and krootox(es?).

you mean kroothawks, trappers, shaper council, knarloc riders, great knarlocs :P

[Richtofen]

NoooOoOOoo not the kroot!!! >_<

[Shakrith]

I am personally quite fond of the Kroot Mercenaries list, and have toyed with the idea of collecting them, but in the TT they require a little too much conversion.

However, if a mod team is interested in DoW, go ahead!

However, I don't like the way the Kroot are annexed to the Tau. I think that the tau mod should be pure tau.

Base 8 is right, what was I thinking. Squad numbers should be based on 8.

For voices, I have an idea. One of the mod team with a voice recording programme records a whole bunch of Tau-ish voiceovers, and might run the battlesuit voices through a modulator to give them the impression of being in a machine. Drone/building voices could be represented excellently by one of those computerised speech programmes, you know, the ones where you choose a voice, type in the text and it says it. That way, lots of voices can be made for structures and drones without much effort.

[Richtofen]

I have access to sound forge/acid

I'm sure the requirements for voice acting will be something like:
have a good voice recorder
played fire warrior so know what tau sound like

[artemis]

3. Any ideas on how to work out how the Tau fight in hand to hand combat? Should they fight as normal but have weak hand to hand abilities? Should they just keep firing their guns in hand to hand instead?

:
it is a joke within my gaming group that fire warriors do not have any ccws so they whack the enemy w/ their rifles

[Shakrith]

Not too far off... but they have wimpy little knives. They should do heaps more damage at reange than cc.

[PureChaos]

I am personally quite fond of the Kroot Mercenaries list, and have toyed with the idea of collecting them, but in the TT they require a little too much conversion.

However, if a mod team is interested in DoW, go ahead!

However, I don't like the way the Kroot are annexed to the Tau. I think that the tau mod should be pure tau.

Base 8 is right, what was I thinking. Squad numbers should be based on 8.

For voices, I have an idea. One of the mod team with a voice recording programme records a whole bunch of Tau-ish voiceovers, and might run the battlesuit voices through a modulator to give them the impression of being in a machine. Drone/building voices could be represented excellently by one of those computerised speech programmes, you know, the ones where you choose a voice, type in the text and it says it. That way, lots of voices can be made for structures and drones without much effort.

if yah have fire warrior play it and listen for voices so you can get a basic idea.

[theimpaler]

If you haven't played fire warrior its fine. They just sound like asian people speaking english with a strong accent. :joy:

[Shakrith]

Exactly how I imagined them... asian accents... that's good then.

[Richtofen]

Its sort of asian but sort of not. I think its a mix of asian/british/no accent. But the asian bit might just come from gothic not being their first language :). I dunno..

I'm no language dude so I wouldn't know what to call it. Just make sure you watch the video before mission 10 in fire warrior which has a huge conversation between Shas'O'Lusha and an ethereal. "I do not trust humanity, Lusha, I trust this space marine, this captian Ardias. Like the Tau, he acts for the greater good as he sees it. He will keep his word. The Imperial governor and the admiral bow before him. If Ardias demands a peace it will be enforced"

That one, watch it like a bazillion times (like me :() and the other fire warrior videos and you should have a better grasp.

[Shakrith]

I'm afraid I don't have fire warrior. The atrocious reviews put me off buying it.

[Richtofen]

I played it with the vain hope of using a battlesuit/cutscenes.

[Shorty]

Not too far off... but they have wimpy little knives. They should do heaps more damage at reange than cc.

Tau got a small version of the japanese katana. Btw, I just want everone to know that the tau do train in hth combat, but compaired to other races they arn't particulary good at it.

[Shakrith]

Only O'Shovah's troops are even slightly decent at close combat. Fire Warriors in close combat are a joke.

[Skewerd]

Skeward, if you want in, you need some skillz but get in touch with Turel/Blackfang, they will say yay or nay.
(late reply, i've been busy this week, and the next coming ones)
Cool, i'll get in touch, but i'll need some proof of skill to show, so before i get all into it, any character models that need getting done, so maybe i can get to work on something that can get contributed later (when i finally have time to sit down and do some real poly pushing :beer: )?

[Shakrith]

If a mod's underway, we should probably get an official list of team members. This means people who want to help design, like concept artists, statline makers, 2D Interface artists, animators, game balancers, and people with the ideas for how to manage certain things are important too (as in, will think about how the tech tree works, unit abilities, upgrades). We should put the list of mod devs so that people can PM them with ideas and stuff.

[Proud Kiwi]

i know im quite late but heres my list for the tau

main building(name?)
builds builder unit -earth caste or drone things
builds scout unit -pathfinders -upgrades start with carbine can upgrade to have photon grenade launcher or markerlights (calls in one seeker missle at disgnated target, long cool down) can upgrade to railrifle

barracks(name?, maybe something to do with fire caste, or maybe landing pad)
at first can build
-firewarrriors - can upgrade with captain guy(forgot name), carbine, and photon grenades.
-etheral -moral boost around him, good at hand to hand(but not that good) can learn spells like moral boosts, and call downs)

at tier 2 or 3(has to be balanced)(maybe need relic?)
-crises suits -starts with twin burst cannons and missle pod, can upgrade to either twin plasma rifles or twin fusion guns.

-stealth suits - can stealth, can get laser markers.

armoury(name?)
once built can upgrade firewarriors and others weapons
research accuracy, weapons etc

listening post
generic

plasma generator
generic

larger generator
generic

vehicle bay
-hammerhead tank(artillary) -starts with ion cannon and burst cannons, can upgrade to railgun and can upgrade the burst cannons to seeker missles (like the pred upgrade setup)

-devilfish transport -burst cannons and drones.

-broadsides -rail guns and seeker missles, can upgrade to plasma rifles

maybe those new tau vehicles, (previous pages)

commander building(name?)
-shas el (same as crises suits) (some call down or something)
-drones -comes in twos can join squads
-maybe heavy drones -burst cannons or burst and markerlight

turrets (forgeworld drone turrets)

notes
guys droped off by orcas
turrets are like drop pods
they have no "super unit" like the space marines
not sure how buildings built


edit whoops forgot broadsides plus some changes

[Emperors Teeth]

Myabe the Etheral could provide a significant morale boost to the entire army no matter where he is on the field (his mere prescence and all that). If he dies, the entire army breaks?

[Shakrith]

So no Arsenal? I quite liked the idea of targetable strikes...

[Richtofen]

List (heres who I remember):
Turel
Blackfang
Snikt
Me (Richtofen)
Thats all I think

[Rollnon20s]

good work

[Richtofen]

From what we have now, I'd say we will need:
-1 more 3d modeller (access to 3dsmax)
-1-2 2D artists for the UI/textures
-2-4 people who have fire warrior and a good mic for voices.
-1-2 coders (when game is released).
-1 Website dude.

(btw im just covering for turel till he gets back)

[NightBringer]

From what we have now, I'd say we will need:
-1 more 3d modeller (access to 3dsmax)
-1-2 2D artists for the UI/textures
-2-4 people who have fire warrior and a good mic for voices.
-1-2 coders (when game is released).

(btw im just covering for turel till he gets back)


voices... jsut go down to your local uni or GW and find every japanese gamer you can and use a dictaphone and script on em.

this isn't meant to be offencive to anyone, coz if 've played FW then u'll know the ta sound awfully oriental :)

[Richtofen]

It's a strange accent, i wouldn't call it asian but it does have an asian flavour in it.
Get the latest Bink Video player and open up the movies in ur fire warrior folder. Watch the level 10 one over and over because that is the one that has the most tau speech.

[Shakrith]

Should we set up an independent site, with progress, unit profiles, preview stuff etc?