Worst Fluff

[Anthonace]

In your opinion what fluff (background) do you hate the most?

my most hated is that 'shamams creating the emperor from their souls' from critical hit, it doesnt feel right IMO

[Cailet]

Its quite good I reckon. What I hate is GWs transparent attempts to make the Illuminati look like Tzeentch cultists. Eejits.

[Captain Zog]

The shamans creating the Emperor is practically official, Horus Heresey Vol 1 talks of the Emperor coming into being and thinking how many lives were lost to bring him his immortality, which i believe is the shamans merging.

I dislike the Orks blood is red thingy, i was happy enough with it being green

[ionfish]

The entire existence of the Tau and their horrible commie-anime fusion style.

[Inquisitor Mau]

Leting Pete Haines write the fluff for the Imperial Fists *angry*

He totaly ruined them...*curses Pete Haines*

[Majestyk]

never liked the Imperial Fists. something about Rogal Dorn walking around the Iron Cage while his men were dying screaming for Perturabo to come fight him made me think "what a moron". just play the Crimson Fists, they're cool.

fluff that sucks though....hmm...i'd say...the squats.
yeah. definitly the squats.
oh, and the hrud too.
stupid space skaven and space dwarves.....

[NightBringer]

hey hey hey, squat are cool!

worst fluff for me is all the PRO- impirium crap, they are more evil than the other races to me

[NjalStormcall]

Worst stuff for me are the Tau, who I have a hard time accepting in the 40k universe.

[BlackTemplar]

I like the Tau, I dont understand why people dont like 'em. And calling them anime-ish is pretty ignorant, the only resemblance I see are the battlesuits. But even those aren't very anime-mecha-ish.
I think the Eldar are more anime-esque than the tau.


Hated the squats. Didnt think they were bad fluff, just... meh.

I've never been keen on the Necrotyr fluff.

[mpjesse363]

the tau suck but the kroot are cool

and they doo kinda remind me of gundam lol

best fluff is the fluff on the black templar in the armageddon sector

[BlackTemplar]

@jesse

You could say that about a dreadnaught, or a wraithlord, or a defiler...

It's a big walking robot, duh.

[mpjesse363]

true but when i first saw tau broadside suits the frist thought i had was gundam lol i never thought like tyhat with the others the dred reminds me of the bad guy machine thing that was in robocop lol way back in the day

[Inquisitor Mau]

never liked the Imperial Fists. something about Rogal Dorn walking around the Iron Cage while his men were dying screaming for Perturabo to come fight him made me think "what a moron". just play the Crimson Fists, they're cool.


That's because they let Pete Haines write the fluff and guess what's his favorite army?

Yes, Iron Warriors...

He made the IF fluff so they looked totaly whimpiefied...Rogal Dorn was never that much of a fool in the old fluff...

A fist is a thinker, not a complete morron

[SPOON!]

Geez some of you people really hate Tau don't you.
Whats wrong wiv em?

personally i realy like Eldar fluff but there is not much to get

Hate the whole Imperium of man fluff. can't belive they pray to an old man in a chair, gold tho it is. It's substatial fluff but really annoying

[valthemu]

Hmmmm...I think the Tau just slightly have the edge over the C'Tan.


That is - I believe the Tau has a slightly better story for their existance, than the C'Tan. Although, a super powerful beings outside of the Warp is pretty cool.

[eadipus]

the whole necron thing is just a bit boring imo


and i wub my tau, they fit in just fine. they're good guy commies fighting for the good of the motherland (ahem, greater good) against impossible odds

good commies, whats not to like?

[Estocade]

what's commies? :trix:

[davidbowie]

how do beings that exist in stars come about? i have no idea. I think the blatant rip off when concered with the raven guard primarch.

[S3MP3RF1]

i kinda like the tau fluff, leaves them with a lot of potential for future models and whatnot with their rapidly advancing culture. unfortunately the squats fluff was pretty pathetic. as much as i wish they were still around, they didn't have much going for them fluff-wise.

[Ferretarmour]

everyone loves sandy space-commies

[Pyro404]

what's commies? :trix:
communists............russians........bolsheviks.....ruskies....

[NightBringer]

i think both fluffs complete the universe... the tau fill in the gap on the eastern fringes of the galaxy, and the C'tan tell the story of the old ones and the bigginning of the universe warhammer style

Double Post


i kinda like the tau fluff, leaves them with a lot of potential for future models and whatnot with their rapidly advancing culture. unfortunately the squats fluff was pretty pathetic. as much as i wish they were still around, they didn't have much going for them fluff-wise.


yeah, but a guy did a very good job of inventing a better end to their race... ie 1000squats, it goes something like this:

3 years ago the impirium underwent a massive reorganisation, beinging recourses back to terra and the ig and sm, and the emporer disgarded many alliances he once had. one such alliance was with the forgotten, once proud and honorable squat empire. But this could not have come at a worse time, as a huge chaos invasion swept through the heart of the squat empire until there only stood a single stronghold containning the last 1000 warriors of the empire.

beseiged on all sides the castellan lord Bzaark, not wanting to see the end of his race, made a pact with the chaos god tzeench. inreturn for their alligiance, tzeench granted them immortality so that they could inflict their revenge on the god-emporer of man who betrayed them.

"the book needs but one entry only, and we shall reserve it for all time. let that entry be the emporer of mankind, who hath abandoned us in our time of greatest need. Ours is and unforgetting, unforgiving race. the last of our kind will never know peace until we have rid the universe of the emporer and all those who bear him alligiance. Praise tzeench, who hath made us eternal enough to finish the great task we now undertake"


- now if that doesn't earn them some respect then i dont know what would!

[Volsung]

I get annoyed when fluff contradicts itself, but you can't blame GW all the time, as there is just so much fluff out there!

For example the story of Ulric the Slayer. They have his history stuffed up, as in one story he appears before he is even a Space Wolf in another story!

[Kaela-M-Khaine]

Tau is worst hands down

[FeloniousPunk]

I gotta throw in my 2 cents against the Tau. They stick out like a sore thumb in the 40k universe. On their own, they're kind neat with really pretty vehicles, but they absolutely do not fit the dark gothic flavor of 40k. They are definitely heavily anime-influenced and represent IMO GW cashing in on anime's popularity amongst gamers.

The Necrons I find to be pretty cheesy, too. I have problems with their game play mechanics (we'll be back, C'Tans, etc.) but mostly they are one enemy too far. They are hyped up in fluff as this ominous threat to everyone else in the galaxy, all life really, but in reality they're just yet one more faction, and one at the periphery at that when you look at the big events like 13th Black Crusade or Armageddon wars.

I think GW is at its best when it focuses on the original 40k factions, Imperium, Chaos, (Dark) Eldar, Orks, maybe 'nids too. I would prefer them creating more units and fluff for these, definitely more campaign sourcebooks like Eye of Terror and Armageddon, then coming up with newer races like Tau and Necrons.

[Paranoia833]

Brainboyz=snotlings, boy was I ever glad to see the end of that one.

[Grogsnot]

Anything to do with C'Tan.

I do have to say I find it humorous how many people dislike the Tau. How on earth they don't fit into the 40K universe blows my mind. :?

[SPOON!]

I gotta throw in my 2 cents against the Tau. They stick out like a sore thumb in the 40k universe. On their own, they're kind neat with really pretty vehicles, but they absolutely do not fit the dark gothic flavor of 40k.

Yeah... because they ain't been around for so long.

2,000 years of an Empire compaired to 40,000 long years of mans Imperium. they don't wanna be like that.

[TheWatcher]

I have to admit I've never taken well at all to the SW fluff. A feral Space Marine chapter just never worked for me.

Hmm...ok...now I've heard three endings for the Squats. So, on top of being overrun by Ghazgkhull (dammit...I used to know how to spell that...) Thraka's many Waaaghs, eaten by the 'Nids, they also sold their souls to Tzeentch....

I have to say, I like both the Tau and Necron fluff...mostly the latter as I play Lizardmen so I'm fond of anything involving the Old Ones (who were kick ass dudes back in their day) :), but also because its so dark and points to conspiricies everywhere...

[spacewolflord]

I hate the fact that they change key parts of the Fluff from the 2nd. Heres a big one the Eye of Terro is no longer at the center of the Galaxy. They just MOVED it. I know there are a lot of Fluff out there but they don't have to change it. I know WHERE it is, is not a big thing for most people but I hate it when people change parts of the story(fluff) for no reason than to change it.

[IgnusDei]

The entire existence of the Tau and their horrible commie-anime fusion style.


An that's why i love them, fishie.

-Ignus, rubbing the Tau in Ion's face

[ObsceneName]

The Wosr fluff if i said space marines? tombkings erm i mean necrons theyre so alike blah. Tyranids have been shafted in the fluff their is like almost no fluff of them winning its always about them yeah being pwned virus bombed completey erridacated blah blah blah Oh well..

[No Surrender]

The Tau are NOT communist. No true communist government would ever endorse the caste system. Just because they work for "the greater good" doesn't make them communists. And don't go around saying that the USSR had classes and was a dictatorship. Post Lenin USSR was Stalinist.

@Pyro404: Communists do not have to be either Russian or Bolsheviks. Nor are all Russians communists. I'm a communist, does that make me Russian? NO!

[TheWatcher]

Oh, wow I think I've found my soul buddy...

Thank you for pointing out post Lenin USSR was Stalinist, No Surrender. One of these days I think I'm going to genetically enhance apes to shout that from the rooftops, because I'm fed up of having to say it everytime I get into an idealogical discussion with somebody.

And yes, that was a bad generalisation there Pyro. Commies are simply a derogerative term for Communists, who are (I'm going to say this for lack of a better phrase) 'extreme socialists'. Personally, I prefer socialist myself :)

[NightBringer]

ok who said the tau empire is only 2,000 years old??? ITS 6,000 idiot!

and the impirium isn't 40,000 years old either! humanit has survived for 40,000 years, but the impirium was only founded 10,000 years ago (horus heresy anyone).

worst fluff is the dark eldar! there is no need fo them to even be in the game, its just 40k dark elves, what next 40k wood elves?

[TheWatcher]

Umm...Nightbringer...had to say this but: ever heard of Exodites?

[NightBringer]

dont know anything ahout them so i wouldn't know... so u have a point

but darkeldar are jsut crap anyway.... well not crap, u jsut need to be a master stratgist to win with them

[Majestyk]

they didn't move the eye of terror around the universe. they moved the universe around the eye of terror. that make you feel any better?

[Paranoia833]

The Tau are NOT communist. No true communist government would ever endorse the caste system. Just because they work for "the greater good" doesn't make them communists. And don't go around saying that the USSR had classes and was a dictatorship. Post Lenin USSR was Stalinist.

@Pyro404: Communists do not have to be either Russian or Bolsheviks. Nor are all Russians communists. I'm a communist, does that make me Russian? NO!

Ah, the idealism of youth. In anycase, no the Tau aren't technically communist in that there is still a central authority controlling the state, whereas Marx believed that the state would eventually cease to exist as a singular entity in a true communist society. However the basic premise of their society (that everyone is equal, and that there is little competitiveness and no private enterprise), is fairly in line with communist ideology.

Damn that was wordier than I intended. Ah what the heck.

[senor_kickass]

The Tau are going to build a big-ass tank with the biggest railgun ever made, and then they are going to come back in time and whomp on all you Gue'la disbelievers.

For the greater good! :bandit:

[Cailet]

I like the Exodites and if you say DE are crap you've obviously never met a semi-experienced DE player, me and my bro are noobs with the DE and we still kick most other players asses.

My worst peice of fluff is the eradication of the Squats, I mean seriously they had an empire the size of the Eye of Terror and they got nuked by a Behemoth splinter fleet? Riiiiiight.

[TheWatcher]

Unless you beleive the 'wiped out by old Ghazgkhull's Waaagh' story. Maybe that got unlucky and were hit by both a Waagh and the 'Nids. Talk about a bad day...

[BrianGeneral]

Necrons.
Eldar's long history+Tau's insane technology=evil!?
C'tan=Etheral but evil!?

I love their units except Flayed Ones though:lol:

[S3MP3RF1]

that tzeentch ending to the squats is very interesting, never heard of it before. i have heard of the nids and the orks wiping them out at the same time. bah, i just wish they would bring squats back.

[Russian Ninja]

The Eldar Fluff. Any fluff that focuses on pointy eared races and comes from GW sucks. Both fantasy and 40K Eldar or Elf fluff is pretty crap. There are whole sections of it that have been changed and are just plain bad. The C'Tan and Old Ones parts, the fact that the Fall now appears to be just 10000 years ago instead of the 10 Million or so years it was supposed to be, Eldred: Honestly if he was able to send of an ignored warning to the Emperor about Horus, then he must have been alive before the Fall, but then again there's the constant reminder that he wasn't alive during the fall. And the way he died above Cadia, well that was just great. A main character was just killed for no reason. And Commorath, the Harlequins and the Exodites, well you've now got to look really deep to find anything on them now.

[NightBringer]

the tzeench thing isn't really an ending tho... there is still 1000 of em left and i think it gives them some dignity!

[Paranoia833]

The C'Tan and Old Ones parts, the fact that the Fall now appears to be just 10000 years ago instead of the 10 Million or so years it was supposed to be,

Huh? I thought the fall had always occured around the same time that the Emperor started re-uniting humanity? Slaanesh's birth was what enabled warp travel again as I recall.



Eldred: Honestly if he was able to send of an ignored warning to the Emperor about Horus, then he must have been alive before the Fall, but then again there's the constant reminder that he wasn't alive during the fall.

Depends how old he was at the time, I mean, it could have taken a few thousand years or so to rebuild the Imperium, so that's at least a some time for young Eldrad to work his way up the ladder to Farseer.



And the way he died above Cadia, well that was just great. A main character was just killed for no reason.

Isn't it a little soon to premature to say that. I mean, I'd at least wait for the new codex to see what they'll do with them post Eye of Terror.

[NightBringer]

umm i read somewhere on a thread, that there was a litle caption of a novel that said @and he was dragged kicking and screaming into the warp and his soul was trapped forever@... i'd say that he is dead... tho i still think its a stupid way to die!

[KingKupo]

He slipped on a bananapeel and died.
Is that a good ending for Eldrad?

as for worst fluff, I'd say the way ork weaponry work through them believing it, altough the 1000 sqauts thing is a close second.

[NightBringer]

well he is that old... wouldn't be suprised lol.

what about ork weaponry?

[spacewolflord]

That the ORks are somewhat have mind powers that help make their weapons work. And the more there are of them the bigger junk they can make work.

Does anyone know WHY GW changes the fluff for every edtion??

[NightBringer]

dunno, change in timeline etc

[Chaos Lord]

i hate the necron fluff...
this 'we'll be back' thingy is stupid!
and them squats have always been crap!

[TheWatcher]

Huh? I thought the fall had always occured around the same time that the Emperor started re-uniting humanity? Slaanesh's birth was what enabled warp travel again as I recall.

No, that happened about 10,000 years ago from now I believe. Warp travel was discovered pre-Imperium during the Golden Age of Technology and allowed Mankind to spread through the stars.

Btw, the Necron fluff is great! And WBB really helps when your basic trooper costs 18pts. You probably only hate it 'cos your troops can't do the same ;)

[Russian Ninja]

There's also the fact that the Eldar used to rule the entire galaxy...even though Humanity was supposed to have been busy expanding throughout the galaxy at the same time.

[NightBringer]

There's also the fact that the Eldar used to rule the entire galaxy...even though Humanity was supposed to have been busy expanding throughout the galaxy at the same time.

well the fluff has changed... they eldar have been around long before humans even evolved form the mamals who came out of the sea.

quotes:
"while humanity was jsut an embreo, the eldar were dancing in the skies"

"we have sung songs of lament even before your ancestors crawled on the bellies fomr teh sea"

during the eldars reign over the galxy (during the war in heaven) humanity had not evolved past the primate phase.. and looked as though they would never go any further... but becasue of the war in heaven... amany races, inc humanity underwent a massive evolutionary step and rapidly becasme the race that now infests a million worlds....

this happened after the fall

[TheWatcher]

Your timings are out of sync.

Eldar supremacy came after the War in Heaven after the Old Ones had died and the C'Tan had fled. The Eldar were brought forward towards the end of the War, Orks even further after them.

There is nothing mentioned of an evolutionary jump for mankind in Codex: Necrons, although it is widely assumed they were created by the Old Ones sometime during the War, but still had many thousands of years of evolution to go through.

The Fall happened a long time after the War in Heaven.

[NightBringer]

There is nothing mentioned of an evolutionary jump for mankind in Codex: Necrons, although it is widely assumed they were created by the Old Ones sometime during the War, but still had many thousands of years of evolution to go through.

The Fall happened a long time after the War in Heaven.

yes there is... i've read all the fluff from that codex about 10 times and i is in there

and i know that... i jsut couldn't find the words to describe it better in terms of events... and the eldar and KRORK(as orks were originally named) were spawned in rapid sucession to use their unique abilities (eldae psychic, orks numbers/strength) agasint the necrons...AND ENSLAVERS

[TheWatcher]

Yes I know these things. We were talking about the Fall and rise of Humanity. Unrelated. I've noticed in many topics you bring in unrelated information when somebody questions your knowledge on a particular subject.

And your talking to me like I haven't read the Codex, when in fact I clearly have.

For somebody who has read it about ten times and seems to imply they are Fluff King, you are still getting things wrong. The Eldar were brought forth to battle the C'Tan because of their psychic abilities. The Krork/Orks were brought forth to battle the numbers of daemons flooding into the galaxy.

And you used "this happened after the fall" because you "couldn't find the words" to say 'this happened before the Fall"?

I don't assume to know all fluff, but I do know very well what I do. Could you please point it to me where Mankind's evolution was increased by the Old Ones?

[NightBringer]

never said it was increased by the old ones. it says it, along with many other races in the galaxy, experienced a jump in evolution becasue of the war

i know i dont know a whole lot about the fluff

i stand by my poor description

BOTH the krork and eldar were spawned to fight the C'tan and the warp daemons

[NjalStormcall]

Well, they did say that the Old Ones messed with the genetic codes with lots of races, and it is heavily implied that humanity is one of those races which were messed with.

There's nothing that says that humanity was 100% modified, but it is implied. It would also explain humanity's similarities with the Eldar.

[TheWatcher]

Ahh...here come the contradictions. Let me address them in sequence.

1) "never said it was increased by the old ones"
"but becasue of the war in heaven... many races, inc humanity underwent a massive evolutionary step"
Who was involved in the war in heaven? Old Ones and C'Tan, therefore implying they were involved in this massive evolutionary step. I assumed it was Old Ones you were referring to, but perhaps referred wrong. Either way, was still unclear.
Still don't know where it says this in the book.

2) "i know i dont know a whole lot about the fluff"
"i've read all the fluff from that codex about 10 times"

All those quotes were said by you. Look back up the page if you don't beleive me.

And you're still wrong on Eldar and Orks.
Necron Ascendancy, Pg25: "They brought forth many potential warrior races, and their is speculation that these included the earliest Eldar" (and if anybody notices this, yes we are assuming that this speculation is correct. Again, why else would GW put it in?)
The Apocoypse Looms, Pg26: "The Old Ones brought forth newer creations to defend their last strongholds [against the Enslavers], like the hardy, green-skinned Krork."

The Eldar were created to fight the C'tan before the Enslavers showed up, the Orks to defend the Old Ones after the Enslavers came.

[Paranoia833]

No, that happened about 10,000 years ago from now I believe. Warp travel was discovered pre-Imperium during the Golden Age of Technology and allowed Mankind to spread through the stars.

Btw, the Necron fluff is great! And WBB really helps when your basic trooper costs 18pts. You probably only hate it 'cos your troops can't do the same ;)

Um... what are you talking about? I said enabled warp travel again . As in, warp travel became unusable due to warp storms, thus isolating earth and ending the Dark Age of technology, and was only possible again after Slaanesh's birth and the Fall (I don't believe the date of Slaanesh's birth was ever given, but if the Emprer went onto the golden throne in M30 then it was probably several thousand years prior to the 31st millenium).

Basically the beginning of the Imperium coinsided with the fall of the Eldar and the creation of the Eye of Terror. Of course it was probably a good few centuries before the Eldar and the Imperium first encountered each other due to distance, and then probably a few thousand years before Eldrad deigned to communicate with the Emporer (these times are pure speculation on my part).

[TheWatcher]

Okay, I'll give you that one ;)

I always assumed the Fall took place even before man's Dark Age of Technology. As for the warp storms round Earth, they just naturally dissapated (as they are wont to do. examples: T'au, Gothic Sector...). But it was Slaanesh's birth that let to the EoT being created, no? Wasn't that pre-Dark Age? Maybe I assumed wrong...

[Paranoia833]

Okay, I'll give you that one ;)

I always assumed the Fall took place even before man's Dark Age of Technology. As for the warp storms round Earth, they just naturally dissapated (as they are wont to do. examples: T'au, Gothic Sector...). But it was Slaanesh's birth that let to the EoT being created, no? Wasn't that pre-Dark Age? Maybe I assumed wrong...

I think I remember reading that it was the birth of Slaanesh that cleared up the warp storms around earth, but it's been AGES since I've read my second edition fluff, or the fluff bible, so I could be wrong.

Although if the Eye were around pre Dark Age that would explain the Cadian gate... actually I think you may have been right. I'll see if I can dredge up some old fluff sometime soon.

Edit: Hmm... seems I was right, the Emporer began his conquest just after Slaanesh's birth, which means that Dark Age humans must have had some contact with the pre-fall Eldar. Guess the Cadian thingimambobs must either pre-date the fall, or were built around the same time to counter the Eye of Terror's expansion. Whatever.

[NightBringer]

Ahh...here come the contradictions. Let me address them in sequence.

1) "never said it was increased by the old ones"
"but becasue of the war in heaven... many races, inc humanity underwent a massive evolutionary step"
Who was involved in the war in heaven? Old Ones and C'Tan, therefore implying they were involved in this massive evolutionary step.

god your such an arogant arsehole.

i did not imply it was they old ones directly YOU ASSUMED i IMPLIED that in what i said.

NO i said what i meant!

this is the second thread that i've seen u undermine my posts, and if you dont stop i'll take it to the moderators so that can put u in your place. i dont take kindly to no-it-all's tho DO think they know everything, and as i've said once, your jsut a hypocrit.

[archon god]

the worst backround and history stories are the dark eldar for one reason they dont have one which pisses me off because as you ppl can see i play dark eldar and only dark eldar

[TheWatcher]

Okay, lol, stop you're making me laugh out loud...

*Shrugs* Whatever, pal. To be honest, I couldn't give a damn what you did.

I could actually go on and reply to some of the crap you wrote down there, but I really can't be bothered.

Moving back on topic: I've kinda liked the Dark Eldar, but never enough to play them. I suppose their fluff is...ehh..ok.

[Zigguratei]

What Sabertooth games is doing to the Thousand Sons Fluff..

[MetalMilitia]

Someone said the pro Imperium stuff was bad
This is what makes the universe so intriguing, it is like the chronicles of riddick where there is no one who is truly good, you could look at it from any angle and be good and everyone else would seem like the ultimate evil rather than having a defined good and bad, I really love that.

On topic though, my least favorite piece of fluff would also have to be the origins of the emporer. I just cant get into the whole living through history thing.

[NightBringer]

On topic though, my least favorite piece of fluff would also have to be the origins of the emporer. I just cant get into the whole living through history thing.


yeah, i mean, if that is true, then it jsut cuts off all connection with the real timeline, which i think is one of the great things about the univers (its set 40,000 years in the future and we have gone through several differnt iras) if it was that he was born during one of those times, and grew up having all these uncanny abilities, then it would be more realistic, becasue then he would have a more real excuse for wanting to reunite humanity

[MetalMilitia]

I even think it would be cool if they had it rather than him being so God-like, he was just a very good Sigmar esque warrrior who ended up ruling the Imperium and getting them to sacrifice all the psykers for him to become a god-like ruler and over the 10000 years shaped the Imperium to his will.

[PluviusNacht]

Hmm, well I haven't brushed up on the 3rd edition fluff too much, but seems like lame excuses for Squats no longer being supported. There are still players that field Squat armies in the 3rd edition, in tournys as well. So, the Squats, who were strong enough to defeat the Imperium, litterally force mankind by beating Space Marines and IG into declaring the Squats a "free race" yet they get wiped out by Chaos, Nids and Greenskins all around the same time? Greenskins I could understand, but not Chaos or Nids.

Oh well, at least Squats are still around, because even if you allow the destruction of the core worlds it didn't wipe out their ships, their traders, adventurers, volunteers in the IG, etc etc.

I'm also tired of half the Black Library stuff dealing with Mankind versus either Chaos, or the Nids.

[MetalMilitia]

Yeah, although it is good stories I too would like a little black library variation. Necrons could make for some very cool books. Of course I still havnt found one that has a really good vs eldar book. It seems that when eldar come into a book they get turned to help the imperium. I want one where they DONT help the Imperium.

[Ark_Z]

Even though I play Tyranids, I hate that fluff the most. There's not a lot too it, the big getaway for better fluff is that the hive mind controls all, I think that's just really stupid! Okay, so the 'Nids are a bunch of space dwelling dogs, but there HAS to be some cool stuff. The only neat things are little snippets about Old One Eye, the Red Terror, and Hive Fleet Kraken. My favorite fluff is probably from the space wolf novels, it's pretty cool! :king: Also the battle for Armaggedon is awesome.

Double Post

Also, there's way too much Space Marine and Chaos, just pages and pages of two of the forces in the universe! Even though I really don't like Tau and Eldar, there fluff could become very interesting. Some that need a little or a lot of polishing are basically EVERYTHING but Space Marine and Chaos.

[FerociousBeast]

the whole thing about plasma being rare and only master crafted is stupid. and inconsistent with the reality of TT games.

[spacewolflord]

THe fact that the codexes are as SMALL as they are make me mad. In 2nd codexes were 5 times BIGGER I kid you not.

[Lord_Maccarage]

the codexes are small 'cause GW didnt like everyone picking out the contradictions in the fluff (honestly, they said something to that effect) so they just started putting in more generic short stories, or army specific data and art (i.e. chapter disposition of ultramarines in SM codex)
also, i want squats back as well! i dont know any of the fluff for them, i only got into 40k for 3rd edition, but i played dwarfs in whfb, and i want space dwarfs. big guns, big tanks, bigger guns...

[spacewolflord]

SO what if the fluff is not the same we got the IMPs with THEIR version of history, the eldar and what not. If it was that big of a problem in the first place they should have got it in editing. They just wont more money for less

[IWAssassin]

Worst Fluff? Hard to say. Its not that Im OPPOSED to the Tau Fluff, it just doesnt sit right with me. "I dont care and I have no reason to" - My personal opinion is that they wrote themselves into a hole. Take a race, make it pathetically small [most other races have a million worlds, or possible comparable population], give it technology that is without question Inferior to everyone elses [even if game mechanics show otherwise].

Fact is A Railgun is not special. Eldar have an Assault 100 Railgun called a Shuriken Catapult [fluff speaking, remember fluff and rules dont always correspond and in fact never do when it comes to the Tau]. Add that to a Warrior Caste that has eyesight inferior to human eyesight [when it comes to combat], and bodies that are inferior, having no psychic ability, yet arent pariahs, a fleet whose best vessel is [again fluff-wise] slower, less maneuverable, more vulnerable, and less powerful than a Lunar Class Cruiser [the most common and in many ways Weakest Cruiser the Imperium has, and the Imperium gets MUCH bigger than Cruisers...]

They compete in-game fairly well but by all rights speaking fluff wise ANY of the other races could sneeze at their pathetic "empire" and wipe it out.

Is it bad fluff? Well that depends. The fluff itself is allright, it just doesnt fit well given the rest of the 40k Universe.

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

I can't say any of the fluff pisses me off, i just accept it.

As for the people slating the Tau. Don't play them myself, but variety is the spice of life as far as i'm concerned.

[chocolate]

I think the worst was having Chaos win EoT, then writing it all off by saying "now a blockade surrounds the Eye". Ummm, is it just me, or does Chaos have millenia of experience bypassing blockades.

[NightBringer]

Worst Fluff? Hard to say. Its not that Im OPPOSED to the Tau Fluff, it just doesnt sit right with me. Take a race, make it pathetically small [most other races have a million worlds, or possible comparable population], give it technology that is without question Inferior to everyone elses [even if game mechanics show otherwise].

ummm. sorry to contradic you but their race is small becasue its young... they are still expanding (fluff-wise), and their technology is not in any sense "inferior" to ork, imperial, or even eldar technology. the only references are that "their technology does not have the blessings of the machine spirit" or something, which is an imperial point of view. they are (aside form the necrons and eldar) one of the most advanced races in the 40k universe.

for me the worst fluff to date has to be how they end all these huge campains.
1)armageddon3= the orks won, but armageddon is still under imperial control... thus making the whole point of the orks winning null and void
2) chaos winning EoT, but the imperium still standing at near 90%... which is utter crap as if chaos had really won, cadia would be gone and the impirium would be doomed. PERIOD

[Thalasion]

Hhhhmmm... worst fluff i kinda dont like the squats being killed off but then if they were still around i know i would hate them, no its gotta be that the tau smell with there tounges, its just so lame.

[rocket_Magnet]

i think the tau fluff is fine, its pretty much the same as the early imperium stuff, the fall of the eldar "blew away" the warp storms clouding their exploration of the galaxy.
same for the tau the warp storms surrounding their systems disappeared and you get a new race

[Davor]

2) chaos winning EoT, but the imperium still standing at near 90%... which is utter crap as if chaos had really won, cadia would be gone and the impirium would be doomed. PERIOD

Pretty sure Chaos just barely "won" EoT. There's a new daemon world, but Cadia still stands (even though it's alone). What happened was that chaos players were losing, then they got organized and started dumping their losses on like the Dark Angel homeworld, and reporting their wins on the more important objectives (ie Cadia). But it ended up being more of a stalemate with the chaos players gaining some ground and the Empire looking a little pekish.

No idea what happened with the orks though.

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

Pretty sure Chaos just barely "won" EoT. There's a new daemon world, but Cadia still stands (even though it's alone). What happened was that chaos players were losing, then they got organized and started dumping their losses on like the Dark Angel homeworld, and reporting their wins on the more important objectives (ie Cadia). But it ended up being more of a stalemate with the chaos players gaining some ground and the Empire looking a little pekish.

No idea what happened with the orks though.

Even barely is overstating it. I can't see how it was anything better than a stalemate, with the Imperium winning more than they lost.

[TheGodOfWar]

The Imperial Navy won tha battle for the space around Cadia, but Chaos won the planet itself... it's still a little stupid. And why oh why would they kill Eldrad, it doesn't make any sense at all. Killing off the coolest character of them all.

[Davor]

Where was it said that chaos won cadia? Last I knew there were forces on it, but it was still disputed. No clear winner.

IIRC, Eldrad touched the soul stone in a blackstone fortress, that just happened to be possesed by She-Who-Thirsts so he got turned into a vannilla coke. He shoulda figured it out as the souls of his bording party were sucked out the second they teleported to the fortress. Of course, this might have all been part of a plan by Eldrad, but I have no idea how he expected to escape a soul sucking daemon.

[Imperial marine]

I hate the imperium fluff its basicly a leaflet saing VOTE FOR US OR DIE the chaos fluff is intresting

BLOOD MUST HAVE BLOOD

[Ramrod]

assasin, the only race with an empire of a million worlds in the imperium of man.

the eldar have very few because of the fact that they live on craftworlds (which don't count, and are few and far between anyway) and only garrison planets they conquer.

the orks have quite a few worlds, but i doubt the number is even five digits long, since they abandon any planet they're garrisonning as soon as there's a new waaaaaagh.

chaos and dark eldar don't exactly count since there's no way of knowing whats in the eye of terror, nor if there are any planets through it at all. and there are very few chaos worlds, most of them being purged as we speak by SM crusades.

necrons, fine, they're everywhere, but they're still a (technically) fledgeling empire, since they are not all awake yet and are not actively invading planets.

tyranids abandon worlds as soon as they are devoid of life.

the tau empire has the closest similarities to the human one, because they integrate races (humans have ratlings and ogryns) and keep the worlds they conquer.



also, though the tau have awful eyesight, their helmet optics improve their vision to the equal of a space marine (which is why their BS is so high).

and their physical weakness is represented on the TT. but although they are weak, they are much fitter than even above-average humans, which is why they are so fast.

i wouldn't know about their ships, though, never got into BFG.




and, as nightbringer said, their tech is in no way inferior to anybody's, with the possible exception of the necrons. a railgun is theoretically more advanced than any other weapon, since it requires electricity dwarfing that of any other energy weapon, although plasma comes close. the US navy is testing railguns, and to fire their first prototype needed almost 75% of the energy put out by the nuclear reactor on the aircraft carrier where they were testing the weapon. a laser does not need half that much, although a weapon which heats gas to 2 million degrees C (i.e. a plasma weapon) needs a similar type of energy source.

now, if you think about it, who is more advanced? humans, who have built an ungainly, bulky plasmagun (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99060105172&orignav=10) powered by what i can only assume is cold fusion, or the tau, who have created a slender (although quite long), ergonomic rail rifle (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99060113014&orignav=10), also probably powered by cold fusion? obviously, the race that makes the fusion reactor smaller. besides, the tau already have plasma weapons, and they are also smaller than imperial plasma weapons.

so, since the tau have railguns, and the eldar have their shuriken catapult railgun-like weapons, and the necrons have their gauss rifles (which is the physics name for a railgun, named after the man that invented the magnetic accelerator theory), the tau are tied for the most advanced race in the galaxy.

also, stealth teams bend light around themselves. nobody else does that. necron wraiths come closest, but they warp in and out of phase, meaning, in 40k terms, that they theoretically cease to exist when they're invisible. that makes the necrons somewhat more advanced. so, purely by conjecture, my list of the technological advancement goes as follows:

1-necrons
2-eldar, dark eldar, tau
3-daemonhunters (specifically grey knights)
4-space marines, imperial guard, witchhunters, chaos
5-orks
6-tyranids

[spacewolflord]

I like your list but for the nids TECHITLY(sp) they do not HAVE tech. They don't NEED it. I think being able to make a plasma weapon out of flesh is a nice feet.

[Davor]

Necron weapons might be called Gauss, but they're not gauss rifles like we know them (shoot projectiles propelled by powerful magnets). They strip away layers of matter atom by atom. Think more akin to the good ole "Death ray." :D They're also built out of "living" metal, which in part is why they're so dang hard to kill.

[FluxX]

I owuld guess that the guass rifle is a version that fires atoms or some other atomic/sub atomic particle instead of metal slugs.

Also, Tyranids are very technologically advanced. As they can genetically engineer stuff very well, so that they don't need any other tech'. But not shure how they do it (are there any humaniod or similar Tyranids?)

[Ramrod]

tyranids are actually the least technologically advanced. everybody seems to think they invented the weapons they have, when clearly they didn't. if you guys stopped to think about it, you'd realise they are the most genetically advanced. they evolved their weapons. they have no technology whatsoever, but instead mother nature gave them the gift of biological and symbiotic weaponry.

[Tegadil]

Roddy said stuff

As far as the eldar go, you forget that they don't go around actively conquering worlds. Instead, they have presently established maiden worlds, which the exodites inhabit, and I wager there are quite a few of them out there.

I'll give you Dark Eldar - they don't have any worlds, but they have no need for them. And Chaos, well there are definitely daemon worlds still inside of the Eye of Terror. Yknow, the Crone worlds and such.

And as far as Orks, you couldn't be farther off. The number of Ork worlds greatly dwarf those of the Imperium. Orks are fungal creatures, able to very rapidly reproduce and colonise planets. So while Orks may commonly leave for the nearest Waaagh!, there are still remnants who will again repopulate.

And while I think that Eldar technology is still ahead of Tau technology, I'm not going to get into that.

[Ramrod]

i like how you quoted me :P

i don't have either the eldar, chaos or ork codexes, only the knowledge my two friends who play the two respective races pass on to me. if you know something i don't, i'd really like to learn it.

its not clear how many daemon worlds there are in the eye, because the only person to go in and come out again was the phoenix lord maugan-ra, and he ain't sayin shit.

and i know orks are basically a galaxy-wide plague, but i wouldn't imagine them leaving anybody behind to guard worlds when all they want is to fight. if that is the case, they technically don't control any worlds, just conquered, then abandoned, them.

and i didn't know eldar still had maiden worlds. i thought they had all been traded up in favor of craftworlds.

[Cashew]

I like the Tau, I don't compare them to Anime though, they look more like the more primitive mechs from the battletech universe (oh how I missed the).

[Tegadil]

and i know orks are basically a galaxy-wide plague, but i wouldn't imagine them leaving anybody behind to guard worlds when all they want is to fight. if that is the case, they technically don't control any worlds, just conquered, then abandoned, them.

and i didn't know eldar still had maiden worlds. i thought they had all been traded up in favor of craftworlds.

Orks spread via spores. So when all the other Orks leave for the next big thing, there are still little baby orks gestating in the ground. There's actually a Feral Orks list in CA 2004 to represent this (newly born orks finding the weapons and such left by their predecessors).

And there is a significant differencee between maidenworlds and craftworlds. Maiden worlds are worlds terraformed long before the fall, and the Exodites (the first Eldar to see the coming fall) live on these primitive planets for a harsh, but rewarding lifestyle (think Amish). Craftworlds are giant spaceships, originally trading vessels which turned into the homes of the Eldar following the fall.

Also, more Eldar than Maugun-Ra have been inside. In the Eye of Terror campaign, Ulthwé reclaimed Belial IV, a crone world. At one point, they were about to be beaten back off-world, but Altansar appeared and its ghostly Eldar joined the battle and defeated the daemons. So while still in the Eye of Terror and daemons still inhabit it, there are a number of Eldar strongholds on-planet.

[orkdom]

The entire existence of the Tau and their horrible commie-anime fusion style.

lol ya the tau are shitlings. hate them with a righteous fury. burn the idiots and send their ashes back to the village... :nana:

Double Post


and i know orks are basically a galaxy-wide plague, but i wouldn't imagine them leaving anybody behind to guard worlds when all they want is to fight. if that is the case, they technically don't control any worlds, just conquered, then abandoned, them.

no. thats where feral orks come in. the spores of the orks grow and eventually become more orks, but these ones have no method of transport and since there isn't a standing force of orks still there, they don't know much, or learn much, about technology. however, thats only i f orks recently conquered the planet. orks dont build spce ships on their own, they wait for space hulks to come out of the warp nearby and then teleport onboard. then they just go wherever the hulk goes, floatin aimlessly about space for the most part. so ork societies develop until a space hulk come along basically, unless the planet is of some importance to the ork warlord in control of the tribe, like the golgotha sector that ghazghkull makes his base of operations, versus nazdreg moving from place to place in his capital hulk, raiding and probing his enemies defenses. in the randomness of their travel, also, it is obvious in a sense that ork dominion('orkdom' :D ) spreads far beyond the immediate galaxy...read my sig for the rest...

[Thalasion]

Orks on hulks dont float randomly, one of the first things they do when they get on board is build big rockets on the back.

[Asklepios]

As an oldtimer, I hate that they just removed the Squats and introduced the Tau and Necrons.
Yes, they were so "Space Dwarves", but wasn't the whole of 40K "Warhammer in Space, in The Future" in the beginning ?
Good Imperial Fists fluff is in the novel Space Marine by Ian Watson, love his books, especially his correct Latin.

THE WORSE FLUFF IS BUTCHERED LATIN AND ANCIENT GREEK !!!!!

As I have stated before, too many try hard to write in High Gothic using latinisms and graecicisms that have my hair standing on end, like Gav Thorpe *shiver*
If you HAVE to do it, do it right ! Use the languages For The Emperor's Sake !

Take an example from Ian Watson and the Bolter&Chainsword fora !!!

[Foobar]

http://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/thecallofcthulhu.htm
They ripped the whole idea of the old ones from the Cthulhu mythos started by H.P. Lovecraft.

[peer]

These last two posts convinced me it's time for this thread to go to the great forum in the sky.