wratghguard + new rules=sucky?

[andy123]

with the new rules coming out where units dont block line of sight on other units do you think wraithguard will actually be with their points? yes they do have awesmoe guns but with a 12 inch range wont be doing a whole lot. and i mean how many pople took wraithguard for thier guns? so i dont know what the use of them will be. even with their guns they will not be worth their points.

[WarganisM]

Not sure about that, not too big on Eldar, but also what about popular "meat shield" units, like some people use Space Marine scouts for?

[andy123]

in the enw rules coming out units dont block line of shight on other units unless u hide behind a tank. so i was wodnering if other ppl thought wraithguard would be useless as i did.

[Sir Guppy]

well in the new rules you cant use meat shields, well at least not so effectivly. the enemy passes a leadership test and they can shoot who ever they like. im not a gret fan of this rule as it make small elite units such as wraithguard vunerable to enemy fire. altho not many people use meat shields often. i would prefer the rules they use for gretchin blocking lines of fire (they give ork squads behind 5+ cover save - any save which is passed an gretchin dies) but i would rather use armour saves instead of cover saves and keep the AP.

But i would much more prefer to just not have this new rule.

In answer to the orginial question yes prolly, its likely they will get pciked off before long. but they are T5 W2 with a 3+ armour save aint they?

[andy123]

yes but only 1 wound. and 35 points apiece

[Hive]

in the enw rules coming out units dont block line of shight on other units unless u hide behind a tank. so i was wodnering if other ppl thought wraithguard would be useless as i did.

So in the Nid's case, Carnifex = tank?

[Ryko Nailo]

So in the Nid's case, Carnifex = tank?
Nope because the Carnifex isnt a tank :P The nids cant hide behind eachother... Unless they are with a guard. They can "hide" behind them.

[Hive]

PPffftt hes as big as a tank fs ;)

[KingKupo]

well, i suppose you lot aren't happy with it, but you've just got to try and find new ways to ssavegaurd your wraithgaurd.
It's pointless to moan about it.

[andy123]

mayve not...they should copme out with a pecial rule for wraitguard having them alwys block line of sight. and in a tyranid army anything can be shoot at regardless of who is in front. its called "Shoot the Big Ones"

[Sir Guppy]

the fex isnt a tank ffs. hes not that big, he tall and wide but lacks the length. and any way you could always pick any targets in a nid army. also i always thought wraithguard could be picked off because they were taller than normal troops and they are also on a larger base.

[Lord Maugan Ra]

So with the new rules you cant use gretchin blocking mobs?
Probaly not right?

[Starblade]

Crap, I guess I'll have to find another way to defend my squads full of rocket launchers...

BTW, what does ffs mean?

[Lord Maugan Ra]

What does btw mean

[Hive]

btw = by the way
ffs = for fux sake
;)

[Sir Guppy]

So with the new rules you cant use gretchin blocking mobs?
Probaly not right?

nah i reckon as its a special rule for gretchin mobs that they would still be able to use the rule. anyway you can always shoot threw gretchin mobs to orks, cept gretchin can take hits.

[Lord Maugan Ra]

O.............thx for the info :thumb:

[Warcrier]

Sir Guppy,
Your mistaking wraithguard with wraithlords, Wraithguard are not that much taller than regular eldar and theyre on the same sized base as guardians.

[ThirdDanScoota]

PPffftt hes as big as a tank fs ;)

Sos a Tau XV Battlesuit, your point is? If hes not labelled as a "Vehicle", then he simply isnt one, just like Wraithlords (although the enemy usually concentrate on THEM anyway).

[Athair]

HA HA! Now they must pass a Leadership test though (Wraithlords not being tanks). It's the one good thing coming out of it...

[Apoc]

Anyone using a 35 pts model (nm what it's stats are) for a meatshield isn't right in the head. Wraithguard are tough, but they ain't that tough.

Get your Wraithguard in a Wave Serpent and do some tank hunting.

[Seth-221]

My complaint with wraithguard is they're only really good at taking out tanks and heavy units: I wish they had a secondary fire mode that was something like 4 5 18" Assault 2.

Seriously, I took wraithguard for the guns. Them and a warlock in a wave serpant, drop it behind, disembark and blow up a tank. Odds are, I blow up a tank in 1 round of shooting (5 warp cannons and a singing spear).

Then, after I finish with the enemies armor, I just find a big group of guys without powerweapons and start close combat. Holds em up for a bit, either my banshees break combat, my wraithlords close in, or I just shoot everything else to pieces

[Seth-221]

Question: were they EVER worth their points?

Although, mounted in a wave surpent with a singing-spear equiped warlock... LOTS of fun. Nothing like having a squad of the damned things pop out of no-where and ice a landraider in one turn. Then, they got charged by guard, held their own for 3 turns, BROKE the guard, and went on to 1 shot the enemy commander (rolled a six, he rolled a 1 on his invuln. Sucks to be you, Grey knight!)

[Jorghan]

Question: were they EVER worth their points?



In 2ed...

[Dante]

they are good at taking out deamons...and big things of the such...

[-_Phoenix_-]

Excellent rule TBH. No more stupid screening with cheap numerous troops. You'll simply have to abandon the tactic and do something else or hope your opponent fails their leadership test.

[Cashew]

Shut up, and buy transport tanks :).

Honestly, it's not that big of deal. You just gotta improvise, take some bigger scarier more long range things (Prism Tank) to distract their fire, load your wraithguard into Falcons and use them to get them across the battle field quickly and effectivly. Take some wraithlords to distract their eyes away. and I don't see why you are complaining about 35pts. Most of my CSM models (elite or not) cost more or the same as that.

[Athair]

Wraithguard can't be in a Falcon. They get stuck. You have to get them a Wave Serpant for them. About 30pts cheaper too...

[FarseerOOBAD]

Actually, in the 4th edition (if you get them in range) they are quite AWESOME against heavy tanks. Of course this is a contradiction in the new rules and will probably be fixed in the new eldar codex (late 2005 i hear).

In any case, their guns have AP 1. In the new rules, guns with AP 1 always penetrate. 4+ to penetrate no matter what armor?!? DEATH TO MONOLITHS :fight:

[-_Phoenix_-]

Farseer, the wraithguard's guns rules overrule the ap 1 penetrates on an even roll rule.

[Fang]

I used them as a sorta rear shock unit putting 5+warlock in a wave serpent to hit the weaker rear heavy support units somtimes. The new rule definatelly nixs them being used for heavy support infantry in the main line. However what I always thought would be cool would be assault wraithguard, since I always likened wraithguard to be similiar to terminators. So I thought it would be cool if you could give them power weapons or at least chainswords or something, and use them as a heavy assault infantry to support aspect warriors. I dont think that would throw off the balance to much and it would certainly give a new option to the game.

[Athair]

Besides that, a Necron player would have to be crazy to let Wraith Guard get within 12" if it. Or inexperienced (but that can be fixed :bandit: )

[Hadrian]

Allowing a towering monstrosity to hide behind troops was always stupid anyway.

If anything, the Wraithguard was poorest playtested unit from 3rd Edition, so these new rules are not bad.

[Vaine]

There are 3 new sizes in the official rules version 4. Small targets, standard targets and large targets. Any size larger than the last can block line of sight on a smaller target. Example. Hive tyrant is engaging a Tau squad and behind him are a squad of Hormagaunts. Only the Tau units who can draw a streight line from them to the Hormagaunts can shoot at the Hormagaunts in the LOS, and only the Hormagaunts who are within firing range. This only applies to direct fire weapons though, ofcourse.

[Evan_gelion]

Wrong Vaine. The only thing that *blocks* LOS is vehicles and terrain--under the new rules, certain units can SCREEN certain units, requiring a leadership test. This is one of the major changes they made, and that's that. Guardsmen can now draw a line of fire with that lascannon through the fire warriors to a battlesuit, to use another example--they just have to make a leadership test first. For the record though--I don't think Wraith Guard were hurt much by the new rules. Everybody and there brother seems to only think screening applies to troops--but how about terrain? Or a vehicle? Load them up in a Wave Serpent (Yay for plastic model coming eventually!) buzz them across the field to pick up that glancing-hit-only, deploy, and let loose. THey're still rock hard--it just means that you can't hide them behind a bunch of Guardians and go "Haw haw, you can't see me!"

[Vaine]

^Look under page 20. Read more closely because you are wrong. All vehicles, vehicle wrecks, monstrous creatures and artillery, friend or foe block line of sight. Hive Tyrant counts as a monstrous creature. Maybe you should bone up on the 40k rules a bit.

Edit: Wraithlord is also under these guidelines

[Athair]

Till the new Nid Codex:
"Shoot the Big Ones: Line of sight is blocked to Tyranids only by vehicles, close combat, and appropriate terrain." Hope they changed it, but I don't think so yet. It may still work for other MC (ie Greater Daemons, Avatar, etc)

[Vaine]

^Yeah that is specific within the Tyranids Codex but only applies to Tyranids I was just using my example to prove a point since the rules apply to all of WH40k.

[Evan_gelion]

^Look under page 20. Read more closely because you are wrong. All vehicles, vehicle wrecks, monstrous creatures and artillery, friend or foe block line of sight. Hive Tyrant counts as a monstrous creature. Maybe you should bone up on the 40k rules a bit.

Edit: Wraithlord is also under these guidelines

No need to get snippy about it. I misunderstood your statement and I apologize. Yes, a Hive Tyrant blocks the line of sight for other units, this is true (keep in mind though, that the Hive Tyrant is very THIN, and it'd be a bit of a feat to keep an 8 man squad screened behind it--though Tyrant Guard would make this easier. ) I had somehow got out of this that you were insiuating that shots at a wraithguard would be shot when screened behind something (Apparently I got this mixed up and didn't catch this specific example), when in fact your statement is quite correct--though logically a little sketchy. Yes, anyway, this does work, and I apologize for mis-reading your post; you were right about your example and that's that.

[DarkRaven0021]

Doesn't matter where you put the wraithgurad or wraithlords, i'll still manage to kill them all with my Space Wolves. Never lost to an Eldar player yet....and i don't plan on doing it anytime soon....LOL.

[Dimension]

does it even matter if a model is thin? i thought you used the bases when trying to determine los anyways. thats how i'd do it anyways.

[Vaine]

^You acctually determine LOS from the firing units eyes, elevation included, to the target.

[Dimension]

man, that must be a bitch to do :D

[Vaine]

It is alot easier to do than it sounds like :) I use a red piece of twine

[Abyss]

sigh..I really like wraithguards except there not worth the money and range 12? that is pathetic...Wraithguards will long die before they ever even get 12 inches close to something. I really suggest they make a box for wraithguard 5 for 35 or 30 dollars just like Terminators, also they should make thier guns range 24 not 12.. and I REALLY feel sorry for Iyanden palyers, just having one small squad of wraithguard is around 50 dollars..

[ThirdDanScoota]

Short range, fearsome firepower. I do sorta agree though, if they're smart they'll take any Wraithguard down before they can get anywhere near their units (vehicles expecially). I hope GW properly take the new rules into account when making the new Codex.