game terms vs. 40k background

[innervision]

Who thinks that the imperial guard is too underated in the background, or either too overrated in tabletop gaming.

In a fight 3 guardsman could easily overpower a chaos warrior (results may varie from time to time) but when the statistics are used to determine an outcome the 3 runts will always win.

In 40k fiction however, normal chaos warriors march through guardsman just wander through them like a knife through butter.

I think something needs to change as many newcomers are getting their wires crossed and not knowing the true power of one of those little runts????????

[Sir Guppy]

that is true but ppl who write novels and stuff dont want there main character being hacked to death by 3 guardsmen, and even then a choas SM v 3 guardsmen i would have to favour the CSM, he hits guardsmen on 3+ they hit him on 4+, he wounds them 3+ they wound him on a 5+ he gets a 3+ save they get a 5+, and they have 3 attacks but he would prolly have 2 because of true grit or sumthink odd like that.

[Lord Kraine]

Watch for assault attack... CSM gots a lot of "special rules" when assulting... 3 IG won't survive to an assault of One CSM

[Cailet]

Basically game power is toned down somewhat. If things fit the fluff ther woul be one solitary space marine per IG tank because in the fluff they are sooooo hard.

[Imperial marine]

the guardsmen could beat the CSM at a game of solitare though

[Tigurius]

If the Space Marines where as though as they where in the novels, there stats would be 5 and 6's. 5 Weapons skill, 5 Strength and so on. But for the sake of the game balance, they have to tone it down a bit.

[BlackSeer]

A IG with a powerfist can tear of parts of a tank (NightBringer Novel) Think what a SM can do adding that his survial rate is like 100% higher.

Would end with a very boring game :fight:

[archon god]

i would like to take part in a backgrong story telling thing but my army has no background or history in my codex h i think there is one hold yeah here it is

i will never forget what i saw at obsidian station. the bones of five thousand brave man lay scattered about the winding corridors. there blood was slick upon the walls and floors of the dormitories. their innards were hung form control panels like grotesque decorations of some insane celebration. but not a single skull was to be found; taken as sick trophies by these despicable attackers.

my best guess is that some of my dark eldar breached a imperal gaurd fort and started massacureing things what do you people think

[Dimension]

i think i need to go to the gym.

anyways, if the TT would go according to the fluff, your average 1500 point SM army would have 5 models. how exciting. even if someone wins against marines, he'd be like "WHOA, I MANAGED TO KILL 5 MODELS... well whoopdeedoo."

but i actually think space marines are overpowered in fluff, not in game. they're not smarter than the average eldar, aren't faster than a genestealer, don't have necron weapons etc. they're just improved humans, not gods. in my eyes, the whole "30 terminators single-handedly free a planet of a stealer infestation" and similar stories are products of some immense SM fanboy circle-jerk, looking even more ridiculous because common sense AND the table top agree (whoa) that a marine can't take on a hive tyrant all by himself.

now i don't know what kinds of customers they're baiting with gung-ho 50cent novelettes such as this, but they're not baiting me. or at least i'd only turn for SM if there good reasons besides some gloriously ridiculous fluff.

my two cents. and in case you people didn't get my point, I'm criticizing marine fluff, not the army.

[NjalStormcall]

Remember that in DeathWing, Two-Heads Talking had already destroyed the minds of the Genestealers by killing the Patriarch and the Magus. So the Terminator were gunning down frantic animals until the very end, and then they took enormous casualties.

[Grendel Rose]

Well the space marines arn't just enhanced humans, they are insanly inhanced humans equipped with tech the dates back around 10,000 years. Besides marines do tend to take extrem casualties given their limited numbers, but at the same time they tend to follow one of the more intelligent doctrines of warfare, don't get into a fight you can't win. Mind you thats not always the case, but it often is.

[Flame Boy]

I agree with grendel rose. There is a quote in a rulebook somewhere saying "give me one-hundred space marines or one thousand guardsmen" or something.... Whatever the exact quote, it seems to me that this doesn't mean that those 100 marines are "balanced" against the humans, but the space marines would have the equipment, the mobility and the superior grasp of tactics to make the situation swing to their advantage. It might take thousands of guardsmen to lay siege to a citadel that three drop pods of marines and some terminators could quell just as easily. A techmarine could overload a reactor and melt the traitors, saving thousands of soldier's lives.

Sure, there are stories of marines that can wade through armies like they were knee-deep water, but also there are cases where in the novel xenos, a deathwatch space marine is one of the few people in the party to adapt to strange conditions on a planet, and his storm-bolter shots go wildly off-target over and over.

[UlfThunderclap]

Instead of one SM winning against 3 IG, I've had three SPACE WOLVES get sluaghtered by a single Guardsmen...

And this past Weekend to prove a single Wolf Scout take down 17 slugga boyz, 3 biker, a killa kan, and a Burna Boy in 3 rounds, but h did have a flamer damage the mob severlly before he wade into them.

[Davor]

That scout deserves a beer!

[Farseer]

The Eldar get the same problems too. You hear so many stories of Eldar guardians being teared up, or falcon grav tanks being out flanked and blown up. Then again i hear a few stories of slaughter of many humans.