Best 'Nid strat?

[JStallion]

My friend is getting into WH40k and wants to play nids.

He's curious about the best current strats out there.

He'd rather use swarm tactics than anything else if it still works and is curious about what a good 1000pt army for it would be.

(He has no internet so can't ask the Qs himself and I wouldn't know about 'nids)

[Dante]

go for big creatures instead of a swarm army! well actually in a 1000 point army that would be inefficient...but if he goes to 1500 or higher then you have to go big creatues!!! it just works that way...

[JStallion]

But for just 1000pt swarming with gaunts should work? can always just get big monsties when goin 1500 and generally have the same force + them right?

[Dante]

Yeah. Swarmed guants is a good tatic for smaller point values because say your enemy is marines/csm/necrons then there wont be too many of them because of the point restrictions. So then you overwhem them. Then if it is against eldar/ig/orks the nids will suffer casualties whiel they run but if u use hourmies (which u shoudl always) then they fleet of foot there and then assualt them. The enemy gets ripped apart usually. And also for HQ never use warriors...they aren;t very effective imo.

[JStallion]

By a gaunt swarm I meant both kinds. Havin a brood of termagaunts and a brood of hormagaunts. In swarms do you usually use both or just one over the other? 'Nids aren't played much around here :err:

[HighMarshal]

First of, yes Swarm army's DO work! Just the look on your opponents face, when he lines up his lascannons, but find no targets to kill, is worth it! ;)

Anyways, i scratched together my thought on a swarm army, kinda going with a "slave-driver" theme, with the HT as the Overlord, driving his Underlings into combat. The army uses mutatable genus table (found at the back of the 'Nid Codex).

Here's the list:

HQ

Hive Tyrant: Lashwhips, Scything Talons, Wings, Extended Carapace, Str-,WS-,Ini-updrades.
168 pts

This is the army's "main man". I usually dont like to use that much on a single model, but he REALLY need those wing to keep up with all the fast stuff! His Exstended Carapace gives him a 2+ armour save, which means that only the heavy'ist of weapons will bite him. But be carfull though! He is the ONLY target in the army for enemy "anti-tank"-fire! The lash whips are mostly for theme, but are still usefull against hidden powerfists!

Troops

13 "Hyper-Gaunts": 1 Hive Note
140pts

13 "Hyper-Gaunts": 1 Hive Note
140pts

"Hyper-Gaunts" are basicly Hormagaunts, but instead of WS4 i gave them I5! This makes them much more effecktive, as they will strike before SM, and simultaniusly with Eldar!

10 "Spine-Gaunts": 1 Hive Note
60pts

10 "Spine-Gaunts": 1 Hive Note
60pts

This are the "expendable" troops! At just 5pts per model they are a dirt cheap means of either tying down enemy troops, thereby blocking LOS, backing up your HyperGaunts in CC, or being anoing with their S3 AP5! weapons :)

8 TermaGaunts: 1 Hive Note
66pts

8 TermaGaunts: 1 Hive Note
66pts

These are basicly tablequater-grabers, that can alternatly be used to hunt down skimmers and the like, as their weapons have S4.... cheap but effectiv.

Fast Attack

10 Gargoyles
100pts

10 Gargoyles
100pts

10 Gargoyles
100pts

This is the second part of your assault force. Gargoyles are IMO a no-brainer choice! At 10 pts a pop, you get: S4 weapons, Wings, Bio-Plasma attack, Deep-Strike ability, AND Ld 10!! 30 of these babies will be on top of the enemy before he knows what hit him! And in case your ffaces with MUCH supperior firepower, and bad terrain, go Deep Strike :D

TOTAL: 1000pts

NubersOfModels: 93!

Thats my two cent.... post for further info, or more questions :)

[Wempler]

"Hyper-Gaunts" are basicly Hormagaunts, but instead of WS4 i gave them I5! This makes them much more effecktive, as they will strike before SM, and simultaniusly with Eldar!


Dark Eldar. *grumble*

[Sir Guppy]

please go for a swarm army, yes its a lot more work and effort, but its so much more character full and cooler than those lamers who take like 10 swarms, 2 tyrants, 3 carnifex, and all the other big ones.

[Hive]

For the sake of being different, id like to offer the idea of using Warriors. They can be mutated to suit any cause and are to be made more durable in the upcoming codex.

For example, Normally Genestealers are the best HTH troops, but unfortunately they dont move too fast AND have crap armour. So to have some durable HTH troops I use the following...

126pts = Mutated Warrior brood of 3: All HTH biomorphs, leaping, extended carapace, flesh hooks, scything talons & rending claws.

What u have there is a fantastic little squad that will be able to keep up with the Hormaguants & dish out some heavy beatings ;)

[Dante]

please go for a swarm army, yes its a lot more work and effort, but its so much more character full and cooler than those lamers who take like 10 swarms, 2 tyrants, 3 carnifex, and all the other big ones.

I dont mean those kind of big creatures, I mean big creatures, like the forge world Herridens or the heridules. they aren;t too expensive and im sure that would add character to the army.

[Hive]

Comparitively they are bloody expensive!

[JStallion]

Alright I've shown him everything you said and he wants to know what you guys think about these gaunts he came up with....

adrenal glands (In), leaping, toxin sacs, scything talons, and 1 w/ hive node.

I told him I thought it was a little too expensive at 12 points, just a few less than marines; but he still wanted to see what you thought.

[HighMarshal]

Hive:

For example, Normally Genestealers are the best HTH troops, but unfortunately they dont move too fast AND have crap armour. So to have some durable HTH troops I use the following...

126pts = Mutated Warrior brood of 3: All HTH biomorphs, leaping, extended carapace, flesh hooks, scything talons & rending claws.

What u have there is a fantastic little squad that will be able to keep up with the Hormaguants & dish out some heavy beatings

Yes, they will keep up, and yes, they do dish out beatings, BUT the real problem with Warriors are their lack of ability to TAKE beating! With only T4, these guys get instant killed by almost any anti-tank weapon the enemy has! At 42pts a pop, thats just not good enough!

JStallion:

Alright I've shown him everything you said and he wants to know what you guys think about these gaunts he came up with....

adrenal glands (In), leaping, toxin sacs, scything talons, and 1 w/ hive node.

I told him I thought it was a little too expensive at 12 points, just a few less than marines; but he still wanted to see what you thought.

Thoughts? Go for it! Wether you maxing out on dirt-cheap SpineGaunts, or going for a more competetive, thou smaller, squad is totallly up to the player, and his style of play. There are no "flaws" in his composition of his Gaunts, in fact i think they will do well! I DO however recommend using them in partnership with cheaper Gaunts, so they enemy has more targets! Dont just let him pick off your expensive gaunts, make your cheap ones look like more attractive targets, fx by placing them closer to the enemy. As he is then "wasting" his firepower on your weak gaunts, you expencive, but still fast enough, gaunts will be at his heels! :)

[Hive]

JStallion - Thats the exact guant mutation i considered for a few weeks. In the end i decided against it. What that combo does is make it a stronger/deadlier unit but at a cost. I came to the conclusion that if i want deadly HTH units, I'll use Genestealers. If I want cheaper units, I'll use weaker/cheap Guants. Im now sticking to standard Hormaguants to improve my chances of vastly outnumbering my opposition.
Plus, if u take the Mutate route, you're gonna spend ages adding all the biomorphs to the models which i cant be bothered with on units that are so easy to kill.

HighMarshal - As with almost every other Nid unit, yes they're pretty weak at taking damage I agree. But its almost common knowledge that GW is not happy at the lack of Warriors used & they're almost definately being made more durable in the next codex, with either +1 Toughness or +3 Sv.

Having them leap across the table WITH the Hormaguants also takes full advantage of their Synapse too :)

[Stormblade]

I'd second using them, after all you can always use other guants. I prefer scythguants to spineguants however, they may be 1pt more but they are one hell of a lot more expensive in CC. In fact a brood of those guants he has there have an effective charge range of 19-24" if he keeps them out of sight for a first turn before moving them round the terrain he should be able to get them in an assault before the enemy can even shoot and you'll have hoards of cheaper guants behind to back them up. I'd reccomend using them in smaller squads and dashing them in to tie up the enemy in CC while the slower parts of the army are saved from some shooting and can get into combat themselves easier.

[Wempler]

It doesn't matter what the NEXT edition will bring. We are playing by the current rules.

[JStallion]

Thanks everyone for your input and views, i'll show him it all when he comes over next; if you have more suggestions or anything like about reveners, zoanthropes and such please add it in.

wempler- seeing as he doesnt have the army yet the next codex rules DO matter because he might deicde to wait for'em, but seeing as theres no set date for it I don't know what he's going to do.

[Stormblade]

And considering the price of GW models im pretty sure it does matter what the next edition will bring Wemplar... if you've got enough money for that not to count spread it about will you :D
Well raveners I don't really think are worth it, although you may like to equip them with rending claws for fast anti-armour unit I find the rest of the army does fine without them.
Zoanthropes are good but theres only one choice that will work usually, warp blast. S5 blast template is good enough to tear a fair amount of marines up, and focused it is prety good for taking out tanks and high T characters etc. Although in higher points games 2 Hive Tyrants with psychic scream followed by 3 Zoantrhopes sounds evil... enemys within 12" of all will have -5 Ld!
Hive tyrant should either be winged or have tyrant guard to protect it otherwise it WILL be targetted and shot down by the enemy. And in smaller games your only going to have one synapse creature so keep himself in combat :)

[Hive]

Raveners are rubbish. For the same points u can have a mutated Warrior which can also leap & kick ass in HTH as well as having better armour. Raveners also cost more £ too so are a complete waste imo...

[ZzGashi]

Hey if your friend wants some heavy support tell him to get an old one eye its only 164 and it can be in a swarm less than 1500pts (i don't have one but the thing is f****ing cool) plus u get one big melee attacker. swarm is good (even though I only have 3 termies, 4 genestealers, a red terror (which i cannot use due to it has to be in an army of 1500pts or more), a ravener, and a crappy hive tyrant (with a bone sword,lash whip, and a venom cannon).

[chocolate]

Gahh, Red terror (I think thats his name, the red lictor or whatever) and ol one eye are used to often. I like genestealers. Keep them in back of your charging line (so they dont get shot at) and they can usually get into close combat, where they kick arse. Unless your enemy has ordnance, in which case you are screwed.

[Fend]

my freind had gaunts, he never won because he put to much faith in his big creatures and only had a small handful of Gaunts to play with. I won every battle simply by Ignoring the gaunts (who usually died in combat and CANNOT act as meatsheilds) and surrounding and Surgically removing the Big gribblies. IT was a cake walk :/

[Stormblade]

The big uns need support! In the form of a couple dozen guants each! if you can't provide enough guants then they'll get ignored and your opponent will make judicous use of the shoot-the-effective-ones rule. Its not shoot the big ones if he targets genestealers behind your gaunts really... under the current rulebook the medium creatures are next to useless and GW knows this, there going to make change in the next edition, their rulebook is out in less than a year so they should be better then. But until then the only effective units are gaunts and MC's (and tyrant guard.... good at dieing for the HT)

[JStallion]

Thanks everyone, he just came over and gave me a few lists he came up with for you guys to tear apart or praise *grumble*" he owes me...."

Ok I'll start with the units..

HQ-
Tyrant (Queen)- Winged, Adrenal Glands (WS), Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands (In), Extended carpace, Rending Claws, Scything Talons = 157 pts.

Troops-
Drones (same as spinegaunts) = 5 pts.
Carriers (gaunts)- Adrenal Glands (WS), Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands (In) +Scything talons = 9 pts
Warriors ( Genestealers)- Scything Talons = 22 pts.

Heavy Support-
Ravager (carnifex)- Adrenal Glands(WS), Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands (In), Extended Carpace, Scything Talons, Rending Claws = 106 pts.

Elite-
Praetorians (warriors)- Adrenal Glands (WS), Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands (In), Extended Carpace, Scything Talons, Rending Claws

And thats all he has so far; Aliens VS Predator:Extinction fans might recognize the names...

Now for army lists.... *eyes raise in disbelief as I notice 5 army lists for me to post*, luckily they're all just troop variations of each other....I'm gonna slap him around like this :Slap: next time I see him for makin me type all this!

HQ and Heavy Support remain same for every list

List #1- 998 pts.
HQ-
Queenx1= 157

Troops-
Dronesx41 (1 brood of 21, 1 of 20) + 2 hive nodes= 225 pts
Carriersx30(2 broods of 15)+ 2 hive nodes= 290 pts
Warriorsx10 = 220 pts

Heavy Support-
Ravager= 106 pts.


List #2- 999 pts.

Dronesx52(2 broods, 26 each) + 2 nodes= 280 pts
Carriersx24 (2 broods of 12) +2 nodes= 236 pts
Warriors-same as #1

List #3- 1000 pts.

Dronesx62 (2 broods, 31 each)+2 nodes= 330 pts.
Carriersx43 (2 broods, 41/42) +2 nodes = 407 pts.
No warriors

List#4- 1000 pts.

Dronesx53 (2 broods, 26/27) +2 nodes= 285 pts.
Carriersx48 (2 broods, 24 each) +2 nodes= 452 pts
No warriors

List #5- 998 pts

Dronesx35(2 broods, 17/18) + 2 nodes= 195pts
Carriersx10 (1 brood) + node = 100pts
Warriorsx20= 440 pts.


Alright well based on my very limited knowledge of 'nids, all he's doing is switching up his cannon fodder with actual melee units. Has only spinegaunts for range... How good are his "warriors"? I don;t think he knows whether to use them or his "carriers" for actual melee since he can get 2 1/2 carriers per warrior, then just tosses in the drones/spinegaunts. likes his carnifex and queen I guess cause no variation there. Anyway I don't know 'Nid so let me know what you think.

[Sigismund]

Those army lists look OK, but they're missing one small thing. Biovores. I known not many people like them, but I happen to love taking 3 of them with Frag spores and pelting them across the field at a unch of IG soldiers.

Just to point it out, if you made a seeding swarm army with only 5 point Spine Gaunts, you could field 384 of the buggers for 1920 points. That leaves you 80 points to spend one a HQ, which is NOT ALOT. Just anted to point it out.

Or you could field those Deathgaunts in the Codex for 4224 points. Or not.

[Ryko Nailo]

Bah Poison Mines are much better

[HighMarshal]

Army lists look fine, just ONE little thing: Why the rending claws on the HiveTyrant and the Carnifex? They are both Monstoruos Creatures, so they both ignore armour saves! This makes RendingClwas next to useless on them, and I think a better choice would be ScythingTalons or Lashwhips ....

[JStallion]

Ah, yet another thing I didn't know about 'Nids. save for my friend soon enough no one around here plays'em. I'll let him know though, thanks.

Keep the input coming everyone :D