[Community Game] What would Europe be like if...?

[Retroboy]

Assume at some point in the 1920's that an obscure scientist discovered a mechanism that actually nullified the effects of gravity and, to some extent, inertia.

Starting in the early 1900's, how would you set the stage for a Europe where things are markedly different? What would be the major events in the arms race that lead up to the game (which is set in the 1930's)? How would our little fictional country get created? What would happen if certain leader had not risen to power?

(This one could have been posted in the fiction forum, but I think contributors would want some more mutually agreed background first before they started writing)

-- Retro

[The5thElephant]

Well the entire world would become a lot smaller relatively. Think of it like when the internet first came about. All of a sudden communication (or in this case sending goods, products, trade, transport) becomes much faster to anywhere in the world. But since this isn't digital and is more in terms of actual objects I am sure that many nations would immediately become far more paranoid of surprise attacks and the inability to respond in kind. Immediately spawning a huge build up of arms and an ensuing arms race like the Cold War. This ridiculous overspending on technology and weapons causes boosts in parts of countries' economies while many other parts have a lot of hard times.

This economic upheaval (sp?) causes a greater split between the rich (those who benefitted from increase in spending on technology and manufacturing) and the poor. So now many countries have slight unrest within as well as between eachother.

I am picturing a country where a large group of citizens who feel as if they are losing out in this big change assasinate the leader of the country, and in the ensuing turmoil a neighboring country launches an attack in the hopes of grabbing as much as it can before the first country can sort itself out. Allies of the two nations are pulled in but have some conflicting interests within their groups because of disagreements over distribution of conquests.

Similar to WW2 if you mixed it with WW1 and throw in a bit of the Cold War. But think of it as a lot of countries similar to Russia (in terms of economic/industrial power, not philosophy) fighting eachother.

[Shin]

Obscure Greek scientist discovers antigravity and breaks the law of inertia without government funding.

He publishes his work in a scientific journal and it is validated by his peers. The rights to the technology are patented, with him as the owner.

The Greek government tries to coax him into working for them but the scientist refuses to become a government puppet.

Radical Chechen militants eventually get to him and capture him. He works for them grudgingly as they hold him and his entire family hostage.

The rebels make money by selling super high powered rifles that make use of bullets that are unaffected by inertia in the black market.

Russia is attacked and suffers heavy losses due to superior weaponry.

Rebels get their hands on nuclear weaponry. The Greek scientist manages to escape and starts working with a newly formed international coalition to defeat the rebels.

International coalition succeed in overpowering the rebels.

The cornered rebels detonate several nuclear weapons all across Europe. The deadly radiation threatens to make the entire continent uninhabitable in 10 years.

Evacuating the several million Europeans becomes the priority, but there is nowhere to relocate.

Scientist proposes massive migration of the entire continent to the upper atmosphere using antigravity powered platforms.

The first floating cities are launched and hover over the rapidly deteriorating landscape of the European continent.

Over the next 5 years, millions of people migrate to floating cities. However, not everyone is saved. Millions of people end up abandoned on the mainland and die out to radiation.

Drastic change in the work economy as a result of the nigh-instant alteration of the EU market causes an economic crisis. Third world countries plunge into chaos, the US is hard put dealing with international situations and itself suffers from drastic loss in suppliers.

China uses military and political clout to gain ascendancy in Asia. The Japanese cooperate and Asia turns into a solid self-sufficient economic bloc and the market is closed.

The survivors of the abandoned EU wasteland organize themselves into a radical anarchist cult. They proceed to carry terror operations against neighboring countries and the members of the international coalition, who they blame for pushing the terrorists to desperation causing in the nuclear holocaust. America becomes the target of terrorist attacks.

Australia becomes the only trading parter of Asia, and is thus turned into a large trading hub between Asia and the rest of the world. A melting pot of cultures develop in Oz.

Antigravity technology becomes efficient enough that solar power is sufficient. The floating cities adopt an orbit around the Earth to maximize solar exposure, the route stays mainly on the major oceans due to air sovereignty issues.

The Middle Eastern countries face economic collapse following the rapid loss of the dependency on oil. Tensions in the region rise.

The US economy steadily declines, priorities change and the focus shifts to the domestic resources. Economic aid programs are cut, including aid given to Israel.

Israel faces attacks from the Arab coalition. The US is only able to send token assistance. The EU city states act and prevent Israel from being overrun.

The Arab coalition underground works together with the EU nuclear holocaust cult and stage an attack on a floating city. The floating City State of Spain crashes into the African continent.

The EU calls a ceasfire with the Arabs on condition that Israel be evacuated. The entire country of Israel is evacuated to the US. Texas becomes the new Israel.

South America and India turn into the main sources of manpower and basic goods for the rest of the world.

Canada joins Australia as the second trading partner of Asia. The two countries also serve as the major conduit of trade between Asia and the EU floating cities.

Antigravity techology, while still closely guarded by the EU, manages to have its rudiments spread to Asia via trade.

The US and Arabia wage a silent battle in Africa, the main objective is to acquire resources as well as technology from the scattered ruins of the crashed Spanish city state. Africa becomes torn apart into scattered countries and factions supported either by the US or Arabia.

Both US and Arabia gain some knowledge of antigravity from the ruins in Africa.




I can't go on, this is turning into a monstrosity.

In summary:

The year is now 2010, the major power blocs in the world are the following:

USAI: United States of America and Israel. Still the largest conventional military power in the world, but economic growth is stagnant due to the drastic changes in the world economy. The changes undergone by the practical severing of all diplomatic ties has caused drastic changes. The major business in the USAI is now the training and supplying of mercenaries across the world, especially the hotspots in Africa where it has a vested interest.

CANAUS: The Canadian and Australian Trans-pacific Trade Alliance. A melting pot of cultures. The major cities have all become major trade hubs and are now home to the world's wealthiest. Sydney and Vancouver are now the twin entertainment capitals of the world.

ASIA: The completely closed Asian hegemony with half of the world's population. There are no outside ties with the rest of the world other than CANAUS. It is rumored that aside from the overall improvement in living conditions in ASIA, the place has been largely unaffected by the past 80 years of turmoil around the world. However, as no one really knows what goes on inside ASIA at the present, most are just rumors. After the last mass repatriation of Asians (those who used to live in other countries) in the 50's, there is no movement of people into and outside of ASIA, only trade. The lack of refugees suggest the living conditions are good. It is rumored that genetic engineering and cybernetics are being exploited liberally within Asia. Dominance in the continent are shared between the former Chinese and Japanese.

Arabia: Union of the Arab nations tied economically to the USAI due to the need of products and goods in exchange for supplying fuel for the world's still huge (but dwindling) dependence on oil. Focus of Arabia is now to gain ascendancy in Africa and further develop their irrigation technologies to change the climate of the African continent.

South America: Major supplier of manpower and, outside of Asia, agriculture.

India: Major supplier of tech manpower.

EU: The floating city states of the EU are the technological leader in the growing fields that have been affected by antigravity technology. They have new power sources based on solar energy and other clean energy sources. The city states can be seen floating above the atlantic and pacific waters, as well as above the Arctic and Antarctic. It is rumored that they have set a goal to colonize the moon by 2020.

Old EU: The radioactive wasteland which are the remains of old Europe. It is known that some people have actually managed to survive in the wasteland. Given the large numbers of people that were left behind, many being intelligent scientists, they might have found a way to survive amidst the radiation. Known to be the home of the Abandoned, a radical anarchist cult with potentially millions of members that have only one goal, revenge against the EU and USAI, who they blame for the destruction of Europe.

[General Nuke Em]

I assume that everything up to the date of the invention is "real" history?

If so, Germany can become a world power again (a lot faster) due to loopholes in the Versailles Treaty that don't allow military research/buildup in (formerly) major areas such as submarines, battleships, propellor aircraft, etc but don't forsee the invention of the super anti-gravity device. The Russians would probably still be a backwards peasant nation unless the anti-gravity device was sufficiently simple enough to allow for production by cheap and simple methods.

Britain and France, with their unemployed soldiers, would be helped by this device, as it creates jobs (building and manning the flying whatever-things) as well as allowing for easier exploitation of their colonies.

[edit] Shin, I thought this was supposed to be in the 1920's...? Before Israel, nuclear weapons, the Russian invasion of Checnya, etc.

[Retroboy]

The year is now 2010Sorry to see you do all that work, Shin, but Nuke Em's right. Part of the atmosphere of the winning idea is that it's set in the 1930's (see the stickied Gameplay thread above). You're about 80 years too far ahead.

Helluva good thought project, though.

[I edited the first post to make this more clear]

-- Retro

[Alliance]

the invention of the antigrav was in the 20's, you know, time continues, and he jumps to 2010, maybe he considers israel time area to be 49-55?

[Shin]

We... will... not... be... BOUND

[Handarazuur]

I basically looked at the timeline from 1914 onwards, though for those looking earlier, these might be interesting.

This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion) and this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boer_War) for example.

I think the greatest change to this timeline would be the death of one man, Gavrilo Princip. His dying in a Sarajevo bar brawl sets off a chain of events that eventually lead to the creation of the Magnetic Anti-Gravity Generator, or maggs.

Because of his death, Archduke Ferdinand will not be assassinated in Sarajevo, and WWI will never happen. Trench warfare will never have existed, and henceforth tanks will never be invented. Heavy weapons do not develop for several years.

Zeppelins are, before maggs, supplied with helium, and consequently the Hindenburg never burns up. Airships continue to develop, eventually taking over the roles of modern tankers and bulk carriers, freeing up the oceans for farming.

Because WWI never happens, planes are not given the technological boost of the war department. Hence, antigrav fighter planes might actually resemble modified cars, and not the birdlike shapes we've come to recognise.

Because the war never happens, Germany is not stung by the after effects. Hitler ends up as a benign military tactician with no thoughts of the Third Reich (mission intros courtesy of Adolf sans moustache, maybe? Get it, evil guys have facial hair, good guys... uh)

Because the war never happens, Russia never goes through its revolution. The Tsars still rule, communism never takes hold, and the US film industry in the 80s collapses completely as a result (heh!)

Japan never declares war on Germany, and instead remains as a country in isolation.

The Ottoman Empire is never defeated by the Allies, and remains a major power in the East.

Chemical warfare is virtually unknown, due to the Germans never developing them for the war effort.

As a result of the war never taking place, the United States are only a minor power, instead relying on their vast natural resources to make a living.

Nuclear power is never conceived. It exists only as a theory.

And here's a faux news report on the magg system.


A Flying Start
January 4, 1922

Samuel Bourbon, a geophysicist turned inventor, created the Anti-Gravity Generator on August 23, 1921. The device uses the magnetic field of Earth, the same field which directs the compasses of the King’s navy, to allow the effects of gravity to be undone. By the rapid spinning of metallic discs of a particular material, magnetic energy is contrasted to Earth’s magnetic field, therefore nullifying the effects of gravity. The process is the same as pushing two magnets of similar charge towards each other. The two objects repel each other. As the Earth is infinitely heavier than a simple machine, the machine is pushed away from the ground, and hence is capable of floating on air. Being able to control vertical height is merely a matter of altering the strength of the charge in the discs. Manoeuvrability comes by a complex system of wires and tubes, which control the charge in up to six discs.

The devices have already been used on one of the King’s horseless carriages, and he did indeed, with Professor Bourbon, fly like an eagle above the Thames on December 25, much to the joy of his children. The machines also produce the side-effect anti-inertia, the same thing which has limited our speed in horseless carriages on many occasions. The magnetic field surrounding a horseless carriage means that one could accelerate to a great speed and back again without any adverse effects.

Bourbon is currently in the running for the 1919 Nobel Prize for Physics.

Interestingly, no WWI also changes the face of space travel as we know it. John F Kennedy is never born, Star Trek is never created, and a French/German team lands on the moon in 1959. Of course, the game won't be going that far, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

[The5thElephant]

ROFL at shin.

[Caesar]

You guys do realize that Israel was created because of the aftermath of WWII and if the communist revolution never takes place in Russia there are going to be no Checnyan rebels.


A German scientist will be the one to create the anti-grav device in the early 1900s. Germany and Austria never enter into a secret alliance with Bulgaria and other such nations. Russia never enters into a pact with Serbia. The assination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand has no real ramifications on the world stage. Germany and Great Britain continue their industrial and military rivalry through the 1920s. Hitler rises to power as the head of the Nazis, however, he does not gain any position of power because Germany is very strong and he does not get to take advantage of the same conditions that existed after WWI. The German anti-grav technology has been kept under tight wraps since its creation in the 1900s. The technology has made its way discreetly into many areas of German life. Most significant are the new weapons and war machines being created in secret by Germany. The newly created USSR (the revolution took place in 1917) had quickly setup itself a vast spy network throughout Europe. It was the Soviets that first found information relating to the German anti-grav technology. In a daring raid, the Soviets copied many documents pertaining to the tech and began to reverse-engineer it to their own uses. The USSR, short on cash turned to the British and French for money, using their newly stolen technology as trade bait. The Soviets made millions off the tech and they began to modernize their country almost overnight. The French and British began moving their versions of the tech into many areas of their economy as well, most significanlty, their armed forces. Germany became aware of this through their spy network on France and became outraged. Over the decade of the 1920s, a massive arms race began betweem these four nations. Germany, feeling grossly outnumbered looked to the US, their greatest trade partner for help. They in turn sold the US the anti-grav tech for much needed raw materials to continue their build up of their infrastrcuture and military. In turn, the US was industrialized very quickly and became a modern power in the world. The US-German alliance and the British-French-Russia alliance were now locked in a collossal cold war that was many many times larger than our (real..ie..1960s etc.) cold war. On the eve of Christmas, 1929, French mag-lev gunships patrolling the Franco-German border became lost in snow drifts and drifted into German lands. German jet fighters (mag-lev tech led to many many advancements in technology...plus the Germans had been secretly developing all kinds of stuff...rockets..nuclear power...jet engines...the jet fighters were akin to the WWII Me-262) were scrambled to defend the Fatherland from French attackers. All of the gunships were destroyed at no loss to the Germans. Early Christmas morning, war was declared by the French and her allies. Germany quickly responded with massive air raids with their superior aircraft (everyone else except the US and Germany still had prop-aircraft) , maglev tanks and crude but accurate rockets. Russia mobilized it's 10 million man army and launched a lightning fast strike at Germany's eastern border. The US sent thousands of troops, tanks, planes and maglev fortresses over-seas to aid Germany. The British began attacking Germany's holdings in the Pacific ocean. Japan seized the moment of confusion and struck at China. The first world war had begun....

[Riess]

Just one thought: If the first World War somehow does not happen or does not happen at the time it should, Hitler might never become a war veteran, thus never gaining acceptance in some german nationalist camps, and will just be an unknown poor artist. Without his influence, the NSDAP might probably not rise to power (or maybe it would have, but too late to be of influence for the 1920s story we're telling).

EDIT: Oops, that was kinda part of what ceasar was saying. Sorry.

[Vaarok]

And the Russian Revolution was a result of the massive casualties and minimal success of the Imperial Russian Army in its' battle against the Austrians, and the economic depression caused by said failures in war.

I'd say the first and most important bit of antigrav would be aerial gunships. The early part of the century was still heavily into navies, with Dreadnoughts and grand battleships. With antigrav, you'd naturally expect to see flying warships. Imagine the British Navys' KGV flying over France with a second array of batteries on the underside, shelling at will.

[Enterprize]

All I can say about flying warships is to watch out for the recoil o.O

[General Nuke Em]

Recoil Shmeecoil. The bigger the gun the BETTER!!!!!

I think they would build dedicated anti-grav gunships rather than convert existing battleships?

[JAL-18]

I think we should have a mix of both. If the anti-grav was invented in the 20's, there's dozens of big ships laying around wating to be retrofitted with anti-grav devices. As we get more into the late 20's, early 30's, we'd see more AG dedicated warships take to the skies.

Actually, we could have that be a subtle telling of time in the game-when you first start out, there's a lot of obviously rebuilt wet navy ships flying out, but as time goes on you start seeing more and more advanced ships that were obviousy built with anti-gravity in mind.

Another thing that's crossed my mind: will this be strictly European countries involved, or will the United States be a major player too?

[Retroboy]

I was thinking that very question in the car today, JAL. I would say they certainly would be involved, if only as a political element in a campaign - as would China, Russia, heck, ANY superpower. Not sure about outright invasion, but perhaps arms sales...?

Nuke-em - it takes a very long time to construct a battleship from scratch. If the antigravity device(s) can be installed in a way that doesn't require replacement of most of the ship's innards, I'd bet they'd retrofit 'em.

Europe is a wonderful seat of power for this game because you can invent a small country pretty much at whim. Heck, Tom Hanks did in his latest movie.

@ all - started this thread: concept art for flying warships (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?p=460022#post460022)

-- Retro

[Shin]

I just like to point out that I didn't think about it beginning in the 20's at all. I just went with the scientist developing antigravity concept. My brain dump probably began in the 80's.

Anyway, leave it to the Relic forums to try and make an RTS and end up with politix. Woot!

[Riess]

Heh. New countries. Well, You could always break Germany and Austria-Hungary into little pieces and realign them at your will. (No wait, that's what DID happen after WWI...)

[[DP]StewMitch]

An eccentric German scientist working in collaboration with a Frenchman and an Austrian woman discover the [anti-grav technology, whatever term is decided]. Every government in the world wants this technology. The German scientist decides to sell anyone this technolgy, to basically play fair.

However, the Austrian woman wanted the technology to only belong to Austria and Germany. She decides to try to solve things democratically with her fellow designers. She asks for them to reconsider and vote on if they should give their technology to the Germans and Austrians. She assumed that since the French scientist had raised a family with a German wife in the time working on the project, he'd agree. She was wrong. She stands alone on giving the technology to the Germans and Austrians. She is further stung by the fact that the German Scientist and herself had been romantically involved. (Gotta work in the B-Grade plot device right?)

The Austrian woman takes a working prototype of the device to America in hopes they'll make a deal somehow. This only causes more problems. But that's later.

In Europe, the plan to fairly dole out the technology fails. France hijacks another prototype of the device destined for Spain. [Single Player Plot Device: Secretly, the French scientist allowed it to be hijacked] France reverse engineers the technology and forms an alliance with Russia. This move somehow sparks off an industrial boom in Russia, and now, huge weapons of war are being forged in Russian factories with French technology.

This naturally sends the whole frigging continent in a tizzy. The German government has had to "persuade" the German Scientist to develop applications for the [anti grav tech]. Germany allies with Austria in the hope that they can counterbalance the Franco-Russian Alliance.

Murphy's Law: If something can possibly go wrong, it will. Great Britain hears of the German attempts to develop weaponry based off of the [anti grav tech]. So a lucky group of Britons are successful in raiding the poor German Scientist's lab and making off with a good portion of technology. This isn't a setback to Germany in the sense that they have copies and back-ups of everything. This incident makes things even more hostile in Europe. Following the trend, the UK allies with Italy.

In America, things also go to hell. The Austrian woman sells the tech she pilfered to [insert company, hereafter reffered to as "Bigcorp"]. Another American company also seeks to acquire this tech, and thus they too steal a prototype from Bigcorps' labs in New York. Problem is, the thieving corporation is located in the American South. An Senator on Ohio uses this as an oppurtunity that the former Confederate States are seeking to overthrow the USA. Senator McArthur's claims implicate the state governments of Texas, Mississippi, Alablama, Georgia, Virginia, North and South Carolinas, Tennessee and Arkansas of forming a pact to usurp the current government. These claims are groundless, but President Woodrow Wilson calls up the Army to arrest the mentioned state governments for treason. This causes an uprising in the South, and the army is suprised by a force of state militias and volunteers fighting the Army back. The Second Civil War has begun.

Things continue to deteriorate in Europe. Spain soon sides with France and Russia. England and Italy invade Greece. Germany and Austria are running out of options. A delegation from Austria to the Ottoman Empire meet and miraculously form an Alliance. Germany looks to the Americas for help. The Mexican government agrees to help supply the Germans with any supplies they need. Germany at first stays out the American civil war. But circumstances bring them into it. [Eh, I dunno about this one. Someone can cook up a Plot Device] Germany meets with a Southern delegate. [Any suggestions on a real life persona or not?] He states simple if Germany helps the reborn Confederate States repel the Union, they will give Germany any support available. The Mexian delegate is present in this meeting, and he suggests that the Mexican Army can also help in fighting the Union. These talks took time as one of the Mexican's demands were to return California, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas to Mexico. At the time, only California was the southernmost state to remain in the Union. The Confederate basically settled the issue by giving the Mexicans looting rights to the California treasury if they captured it. The border with Mexico would not change.

By this time, every one seems geared for war. The [anti grav tech] has been widely implemented, and to help defend populaces, some European cities and levetated off of the ground and into the air. France and Russia have ammassed a fleet of [bigass antigrav warships], England and Italy have started a campaign to conquer Africa, and Germany and Austria are mustering troops to defend their borders. From the Airborne capital of [Bremen] the German Kaiser deploys Germany troops to the American front where fighting has reached an all time high as Nevada, Kansas, Missouri, and Kentucky have joined the Confederates and causing battles to break out in once peaceful areas like Topeka and Kansas City....


~~~~~
Ehh, waaaay too long winded. Oh well. Worth a shot.

[FluxX]

How about this...

Einstein does his caculatoin in reverse!

Instead of E=MC2 he gets MC2=E!

So he creats matter, instead of destroying it in the ATOM bomb. Then you can create you antigrav matter/antigravitons or whatever...

[Freshmendave]

Well if we are making up a small country as the protaginist why dont we give them an ideology that makes them a target for bigger badder naghbors. Somethen like free trade or the agressive use of the anti grav tech in ecinomic applications that makes them very rich very fast.

just a thought why not put our little contrey in Africa? Even though in the 1920s no place in africa had any real industrial capibility but this is a what if story right?

[Caesar]

You can't create or destroy matter. Basic Chemistry...


Stew Mitch's story is decent but is a little un-believable. The Germans and French would never be working together. I usually don't push my work on others but I'm so damned proud of my story. It's obviously the best :bandit:

[Riess]

You can't create or destroy matter DIRECTLY. Conversion of matter into energy (and the other way round),however, is being implemented throughout the world and is one basic aspect of chemistry.

[Retroboy]

Germans and French would never be working togetherYa know, a little knowledge of history, coupled with some good common sense and experience in the world of international politics, could prevent horrendous mistakes like this sentence in the future. :D

-- Retro

[FluxX]

Yes... thanks!

What I am getting at, is now we don't have the same history...

Retro said, one of the problems (or not) would be nukes/atom bombs. But if they were not invented (untill perhaps the late game, thus making a exciting and important mission) then there would be differnt historical events.



For the story you need to have something the player could relate too... not being too differnt (IE C&C RA style!) and would give the player and game some common ground.

[Riess]

How about 'Germany and France would certainly not work together in the early 20th century'? I mean, they hated each other. On the other hand, it was the time of randomly chosen allies, each country allied itself with each other so to have as many advantages as possible for the time being. They broke treatys just as well, though.

If this is somehow all wrong, tell me so, I wasn't paying that much attention to history lessions...

[Caesar]

Ya know, a little knowledge of history, coupled with some good common sense and experience in the world of international politics, could prevent horrendous mistakes like this sentence in the future. :D

-- Retro


Hmm...let's think. Early 1900s...ah yes! My mistake! The Germans and the French were obviously the best of friends!

[Retroboy]

neverElements of France, particularly individuals, were freely working with Germany in the 1930's, because both saw benefit in it. Allegiances can change - and often do quickly.

The point is that this Europe would be an excellent gaming environment if it were filled with factions that could and did migrate their allegiances from time to time, at their convenience - much as a game of Risk flows.

-- Retro

[Riess]

So what countries do we have exactly? Also I'm a bit confused about what happened and what didn't, and when excatly the story is set (I've heard anything between early 1900s and... well, 21st century, but 1940s realistically).

EDIT:

OK, got it, thanks. That means our thoughts start with a pretty normal post-WWI-world. Which means most political aspects will probably remain the same until early 30s, when the technology is advanced enough for widespread use.

[Retroboy]

Riesstu, dates are provided in the first post.

-- Retro

[Ash]

I'd like to bring up a few points.

First off, I think it's a bit silly to assume that World War I wouldn't happen simply because Ferdinand wasn't assassinated. Europe was geared up for war- something probably would have broken out anyway.

Something a bit more realistic might be if the Germans won the Battle of the Marne and Paris fell before Christmas 1914. France would surrender, but rather than a German occupation perhaps a puppet government could be established. Maybe base it at, oh.... Vichy?


Oh, and Retro- China wasn't a major power during this period at all. Japan, perhaps?


I have a few other ideas, I'll put them up later.

[BmB]

Ouh... shin, that first story of yours, it should be prelude for a game... really... would make a great game!

[Handarazuur]

Well, it doesn't necessarily have to be THAT that stops it from being set off. Perhaps earlier events mean there's a sort of cooling down among the European powers until the antigrav technology is developed and stolen.

[Ammon Ra]

rofl @ shin. Keep it and develop a story from it. :thumb:

considering the massive effect submarines hqd on ww1, armoured floating zepplins would cause even greater mayhem. THe submarine became (in)famouse when a german captain was able to sink 3 cruisers during the early ww1. This was still the period of large massive battleships, no AA, no anti-submarine capabilities; except firing on them when they surface, lots of long range surface bombardment weaponry, simble ballistic rocket ships... nothing special. By the end of ww1, submarines had proven to be a deadly weapon being extreemly cost effective.

Now, the effects of armoured zepplins carrying heavy turrets would be insane. you could take out an entire army, entire convoys with a single ship. They would be considered superweapons. The person, or people who invented the anti-gravity drive would be under great threat as all sides would want the technology and they all want to make sure that if they don't get hold of the technology that no one else can. Considering the military and political state of the world right after ww1, i doubt the inventors would want to stay in europe.

But assuming thy do, and that they have a decent morale, the place they'd be most likly to go would be england. The first few ag ships would be small, escort ships. But they would be immensly powerfull nevertheless considering that they would be almost immune to normal enemy fire. thus england would have an immense advantage over the rest of the world. and i wouldn't know if they'd be willing to share that technology with anyone. But assume they do, and the technology is given to the us, france, and any other axis countries. The arms race between those races would be immense, not to mention what other countries would do to get hold of the technology, buying it, stealing it, bribing officials ect. retrofitting existing ships would indeed be what you'd see first, but it took 9 months to build submarines, 12-18 months for your average destroyer, so these airships should take around the same time to get built if not something longer. take 2 years to develop, design an create the 1st AG specific ship. if the invention is made in 1920, the technology is spread a year later to axis countries, and eventually to the rest of the world in the next 5 years, by the year 1930 there would be a few hundered AG ships in the air.

Would the technology be cheap enough for commercial use? mercants, liners, troop transports, or would the technology be limited to military-offensive ships?

Aircraft would also be completly different. they would be flying tanks if anything, as there's no need to generate lift, they might have a few props, but wings would only enlarge their top profile -bad. dog fighting would also be anything from elegant. the armour on these things would be strong enough to withstand machine guns. the only thing that could skratch them would be larger calibre weapons, cannons. Wouldn't resemble frespace...3d m1 abrahms at best.

:p :nyah:

[Caesar]

I'd like to bring up a few points.

First off, I think it's a bit silly to assume that World War I wouldn't happen simply because Ferdinand wasn't assassinated. Europe was geared up for war- something probably would have broken out anyway.

Something a bit more realistic might be if the Germans won the Battle of the Marne and Paris fell before Christmas 1914. France would surrender, but rather than a German occupation perhaps a puppet government could be established. Maybe base it at, oh.... Vichy?


Oh, and Retro- China wasn't a major power during this period at all. Japan, perhaps?


I have a few other ideas, I'll put them up later.



Sure, there were other reasons why WWI started, but the event that escalated everything to the point of war was the assassination of Ferdinand and the secret alliance between Serbia and Russia.