Tyranid Mod

[MusedMark]

I have few ideas on how to set up a Tyranid Army in terms of the tech tree and base building:

The first stunling block is that Tyranids dont have bases as such, do they?

They just come, swarm, consume and bugger off.

Took me a while to figure out, but heres the first of my two Tyranid base theories:

1. the game starts and you have a few Genestealer infected humans, linked to the hive mind and a Tyranid drop (bio) ship.

2. Inetead of building extra building, the bio ship has upgrades requested in the same sense as building extra buildings. This is done by the infected humans.

3. If this seems unfair, ship can upgrade upto 3 parts at a time. And each upgrade adds armour and defence stats to the ship, so the one ship will be on par in terms of defence and armour with a base of several buildings. (so will take roughly the same amount of time to destrioy)

4. Eachupgrade allows for better tyranid troops. i.e
Genestealers, Lictors, Hive Tyrants, Carnifex etc.

5. Because the Genestealer will make up the bulk of the army and have no ranged weaponry they should be slighty cheaper then other similar units, more on par with the cost of ork units (i know they excell at hand to hand, but they have to get into hand to hand first :D )

6. Tyranids only require one resource, land (to consume). To this end, when they take strategic points, they consumer the land around it. (Listening post could be a physchic living beacon)

7. Similar to the waaagh of the Orks, Tyranids should have a "hive mind" field, basically, the further away from the nearest unit linked to the hive mind they are, the more ferocious (yet more unstable and un-accurate) they become. This will encourage assualts with the bigger units.

This sounds pretty complicated, but if you think about it, it makes sense from a race and 40k point of view.


My second theory is that:

tyranids have no base at all,

They can infect strategic points and then request more troop pods from the orbiting mothership.
This may sound unfair, but the cosnumed/infected strategic points can be captured by the enemy, but the ground remains consumed and will still offer a slightly reduced resource allocation.

I dont think the tyranids really need a base, given that most battles are "anihalate" (on-line battles).

The above needs some work, and i wont be the guy to create the mod, but i hope the idea could maybe be used in some sense, and id be happy to collaborate on it.

Mark
-Theyre coming down the walls, theyre coming down the godamn walls -

[Shakrith]

Tyranids actually do build organic bases in fluff, like Capillary towers and genestealer cult buildings and some other stuff.

[MusedMark]

They build bases, i dont deny that. But they tend to prefer to conquer first. Cult buildiings would not really serve a purpose in the game.
Unless you train cultists, who are infected and eventually spawn into a genestealer!

Now theres a thought.

[SvK]

ferocious, unstable, and accurate? Please explain.

[MusedMark]

ferocious, unstable, and accurate? Please explain.
basically, when the connection to the hive mind is lost the revert to their basic motor functions and lose direction, and that my friend is a cornered beats and this becomes unstable

[ForrestFox]

Hm, I've not read up on the tyrranids, but I got an idea..
Why not let them have their base in holes?
They dug into the ground, and depending on what sort of "building" it is, there will be different kind of mounds around the hole.
(As I said, I dont know how the tyrranids work and what their society are like, but if they resemble Aliens even the slightest, then I think it would be a good idea to take ideas from the Alien movies/games/stories/etc..)

[ozone]

Ferocious:
1 : exhibiting or given to extreme fierceness and unrestrained violence and brutality
2 : extremely intense <ferocious heat>

Ferocious? Don't you mean Feral? 1 : of, relating to, or suggestive of a wild beast
2 a : not domesticated or cultivated : WILD b : having escaped from domestication and become wild

Because ferocious suggests that they become "better" - if they are more violent, and thereby do more damage, it could be to your advantage to simply let them get so...

Accurate:
1 : free from error especially as the result of care
2 : conforming exactly to truth or to a standard : EXACT
3 : able to give an accurate result

I don't think the that's what you mean here... again, they become "better" - more dmg combined with more hits don't really connect to make them weaker and encourage assaults with bigger unit....

Just busting your balls here, besides that I actually think your first idea is really good and hope someone will implement it :D

[Vaine]

Tyranid codex has multiple units that are considered Synapse creatures, I think that would be an important weakness in an otherwise invincible race, just like the TT. So its a given that they would have something like that during the mod. Ofcourse all of this talk won't do anything to encourage a Tyranid mod. I started working on the models about 3 weeks ago but decided to do Kroot first so we'll see where it goes.

[Cmdr. Dante]

Everyone knows that the 'nids' have a hive culture the same as an 'insect' or 'bug' culture ... so the best form would be to have a spore landing sight that has the same effectivenesss of a base ...

[ZzGashi]

Everyone knows that the 'nids' have a hive culture the same as an 'insect' or 'bug' culture ... so the best form would be to have a spore landing sight that has the same effectivenesss of a base ...

I agree with you there dante.

Heres an idea instead of genestealer infected humans the workers are rippers and plus genestealers don't make the bulk of the army, its mainly the gaunts.

[Russian Ninja]

Isn't there already supposed to be someone working on a Tryanid mod?

[BarfHappy]

how could you ? i have looked inside the packs and they are compressed proprietary format... i will check if the compression is a basic one (hauffman or such) .

the good thing though is that the gameplay is around LUA scripts, thus, if relic gives us a way to extract the packs will allow us to create our army (providing we make the model conversion tools etc, which i already did for FarCry and other games ).

If they do not provide, then we will have to use the dll :) hopefully it is not execution-packed so all the symbols are visible. I shall check that this weekend and report back for duty.

[MusedMark]

Ferocious:
1 : exhibiting or given to extreme fierceness and unrestrained violence and brutality
2 : extremely intense <ferocious heat>

Ferocious? Don't you mean Feral? 1 : of, relating to, or suggestive of a wild beast
2 a : not domesticated or cultivated : WILD b : having escaped from domestication and become wild

Because ferocious suggests that they become "better" - if they are more violent, and thereby do more damage, it could be to your advantage to simply let them get so...

Accurate:
1 : free from error especially as the result of care
2 : conforming exactly to truth or to a standard : EXACT
3 : able to give an accurate result

I don't think the that's what you mean here... again, they become "better" - more dmg combined with more hits don't really connect to make them weaker and encourage assaults with bigger unit....

Just busting your balls here, besides that I actually think your first idea is really good and hope someone will implement it :D

Your right, i actually read the updated Tyranid codex and it states:

Genestealers:
Blood Link:
Genestealers do not suffer if they are removed from the proximity of the hive mind. A blood link between the units allows them to still function, yet they will be subject to morale checks and may break if blood link is utilised.

Maybe thats a better idea??

PS, thanks for busting my balls, any errors i made, i fully appreciate having them rectified.

Double Post


I agree with you there dante.

I actually producec a typo in my first post, i meant to use un-accurate instead of accurate. Sorry.

Heres an idea instead of genestealer infected humans the workers are rippers and plus genestealers don't make the bulk of the army, its mainly the gaunts.

Again, this is true, however, i think if the mod was implemented, most people may opt to field mass genestealers as opposed to gaunts.
:)

[psycojester]

I reckon that something along the lines of, when not in range of a synapse creature the tyrandis moral is always broken, excepting genestealers and lictors

[Biber_Alpha]

Oh, a Tyranid Mod!

YEAH BABY!

I am the biggest living Tyranid Fan (no discussion about that, i know i am right :) ).

I read in some other Forums a lot about a Tyranid Mod.
So:

1) Please, dont let Absorber build the tyranid Building, thats ridiculous (you not mentioned it, but i read it somewhere else).

2) Uberunits could be a scythed Hierodule from FW (if orcs get Squiggofants...)

3) Carnifexes arent Uber-units (maybe a bit weaker than a Dreadnaught)

4) Hive Tyrants as Commander would be great.

5) Idea of no buildings, just one hiveship is great!

6) Maybe the most Tyranid Creature can be dropped per pod?

7) Please, no Genestealercult. I would like a raw Tyranid Army.

8) Gaunts would be the standard, Genestealer would be elite Infantry

9) Hivemind: Why you dont use the ability of the SM Commander, increasing morale near him? All Synypse creatures creatur a field like that (you know, with the little Words around the feet of the units), every Tyranid Unit in it will not loose morale and the morale set to maximum. If they are not in these range they will loose morale auite fast. But when broken the units are a bit faster, make more damage (cause of getting in panic and wild) but will loose Hitpoints faster if attacked.

I would be pleased to see the following units:
Hive Tyrant
Warriors
Lictors
Gaunts (termagaunts and/or Horamgaunts)
Genestealer
Biovore
Carnifex
Gargoyle
Venator
Scythed Hierodule

btw: How much units have the races in DoW? Maybe that are enough to take all tyranids? There are only missing Absorber, Zoantroph, Guard... ok, i think these three has enough place :)

10) Tyranids even doesnt buid defence Turrets.

Just my 2 Cent.

[Richtofen]

All tyri-bugs should be unbreakable (and for gaunts, only when in synapse range). When out of Synapse range, they should drop their morale and break (effectively the same as running around).

Nid buildings should be all capillary towers/spore chimneys/spore things and should fall from space with a splat (or dropped from harridin?)

[Falhandir]

How about the main base is a Norn Queen, which would just be a big unmoving (well, pulsating) blob in the base that would resemble it, then you can buy upgrades ONTO the Norn Queen, so it grows and extra blob or tentacle or whatever and that allows upgrades, you could also havespires etc. Basic units would be Gaunts and Genestealers, you can upgrade non genofixed species after you buy them, plasma generaters spires, listening posts and turrets also spires of sorts. Heirodule would be good. Whenever a non Hive connected units (gaunts etc) are out of range of a listening post and hive connected creatures they instantly lose their morale (with the red flashing). I think the Seeding Spores idea would be a bit unbalanced for DoW, so it wouldn't really be a viable idea. All Synapse creatures, or creatures in synaps being unbreakable is a bit extreme. Genestealers won't need synapse.


Please excuse my ignorance, but what's a Venator? Is it forgworld? I don't think it's in the main codex list.

[Biber_Alpha]

I like the Idea of the Queen. But could a huge for-all-things building, cause it cant move?

Venator, sry. I am from germany, i think in english codex it is a ravener.

[Richdog]

Christ, we NEED a Tyranid army theres no two ways about it... that would really provide a race that needs vastly different tactics to win. At the mo DOW is a bit samey for me in multiplayer, I need more variance. :D

[ZzGashi]

the norn queen and spires for buildings is a great idea.

heres an idea since all squads can get a sargent why not give the guants like a warrior for a sargent.

[Rollnon20s]

:slow: i wonder how there buildings would look:slow:

[Biber_Alpha]

Like this (scroll down to middle-end):

*removed* before visited by Inquisition :D

[MusedMark]

Like this (scroll down to middle-end):

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/QUATERMASTERS_STORE_WARHAMMER_40K_TERRAIN_7.html

Very nice indeed.

Im glad so many people are up for a Tyranid mod.
:)

[ZoopahFex]

Yoo, im quite new to WH40k, and my first army is a Tyranid army, I chose it, because i just love freaky alienish thingies ^-^. I also happen to be a 3d modeller, and started on some graphical work for a Tyranid mod ...

I made this cutie in an hour or so ... Pay no attention to the textures tho, its jsut copy and paste work, to show the full detail with a skin, but it isnt final.

Anyway, here goes ;)

http://members.lycos.nl/zoop1984/HiveTyrantHeadRender00.jpg

*ps* oh, if anyone has any pictures of a Dominatrix or Norn Queen, I'm more then happy to try and model it

[Asher]

could you please tell me how you put the picture in your message.

[ZoopahFex]

lol, nicely on topic there ash ... i uploaded my image onto my webspace ( http://members.lycos.nl/zoop1984/HiveTyrantHeadRender00.jpg <- right there ) and then used the img ( [ img ] http://members.lycos.nl/zoop1984/HiveTyrantHeadRender00.jpg [ /img ] (without spaces between the brackets and the code)) code to place it

[Astral2643]

Seeing as the Tyranids goal is to 'consume' the planet, why not make it so the number of soldiers they can build is determined by the amount of control area they have, as if the hive fleet is getting its resources from that area?

[MusedMark]

Seeing as the Tyranids goal is to 'consume' the planet, why not make it so the number of soldiers they can build is determined by the amount of control area they have, as if the hive fleet is getting its resources from that area?

Yeah, i kinda touched on that idea at the start of the thread. I think the tyranid mod willl make an interesting game as it will require a completely different way of thinking.

[Richdog]

Hurry up and make the mod already! lol j/k, but I can't wait until it's finished. And an unofficial Squat mod would suit the game very well I think, plenty of vehicles/bikeds to suit. :D

Damn, you could easily put every race into this game if you were so inclined, and took the time to make sure they were balanced enough. *drool*. :D

[Warcrier]

I think that 'nids would be a great mod for DoW!

Here are some of my ideas...

Like Biber_Alpha said :
Hive Tyrants would be the "commanders" of the army as they are the link to the hivemind.
Gaunts would come as basic gaunts and then could be upgraded in a myriad of ways to reflect the mutations they could have (i.e. possesed chas marines and there many upgrades)
They wouldnt have any seconday character units persay, but ideas like Tyrant guard as a reinforce for the Hive Tyrant could work.
Hierodules would be Awesome!!! The would work on the same kind of mutation idea as the gaunts.
Carnifex would be their version of the Dreadnought/defiler/wraithlord.
Genestealers would be able to infiltrate but woud have an improved infiltration than regular in DoW, (i.e Commanders cant even reckognize them...)
Lictors and Raveners would bve elites fast moving units...
Gargoyles would be nice addons, but would not be strong assault flyers like other races, they would be more like the scouts with weak shooting weapons, but maybe an ability to flee from battle at command of the Hive Mind
Besides if you sent them out on their own they would get easily killed due to no Synapse creatures being around.
Warriors would be the defacto Seercouncil for a Hive Tyrant... but would kick ass on their own!
Finally for the Synapse special rules, I like the ideas already thrown out, that Synapse creatures would put out a range that all 'nids woulr have max morale but those outside would break easier than normal, however I feel that if any ever broke then they wouldnt run but instead go wild and attack the nearest unit.
For the buildings, the command center would be a node of the hive mind it self, Cappilaries would replace listening posts, and would perhaps allow the nids to use them as gates to travel quickly in small numbers tho.
Plus as a final throwin, I think that the main buildings should give off the same effect as a synapse creature but would make the nids in the area completely immune to morale. This would show how they would never abandon the hive mind node in any circumstance.

Everyone Think Zerg from Starcraft and ya have prettymuch got a good base set of rules for the Tyranids....

I wonder why that is tho.... ;)

[Lord Azrael]

If the main building is actually a Tyranid creature that you add on to, it could be cool if after enough upgrades etc, and a relic, that you could actually uproot and fight with the central base. (If it's a Dominatrix or what not)
If it gets destroyed then the Nid player is in a world of hurt since they just lost most if not all building options. But hey, a mini Titan would be pretty cool.

[Dockham]

This would be a wicked mod. I'm more of a Daemonhunters guy but I'm definately all for the bugs.

"Bugs Thrive on Carnage Tiger"
Men in Black

[MusedMark]

If the main building is actually a Tyranid creature that you add on to, it could be cool if after enough upgrades etc, and a relic, that you could actually uproot and fight with the central base. (If it's a Dominatrix or what not)
If it gets destroyed then the Nid player is in a world of hurt since they just lost most if not all building options. But hey, a mini Titan would be pretty cool.


An excellent idea. At this rate, it wont just be a mod, but a total conversion!! :)

I have another idea:

Assuming most races get mod support, i would like to see, missions/campaigns based around "key fights and battles" from the Warhammer 40k world. i.e.

The tyranid invasion of the ultramarines home world.
Horus Heresy (that would be cool).

You get the idea.

Now that, would make me drool!

[Astral2643]

Is there actually a Tyranid mod starting up here? Or is everybody just adding ideas for a possible one in the future?

[MusedMark]

Apperently someone is working on one, tho nothing can really take off yet, we are all praying a editor is shipped with the full game.

[Astral2643]

I thought Dawn of War was a mod friendly game, so there should be an editor, if not there may be support for manual editing of data files?

[MusedMark]

Yeah, but i reckon it will ship with a editor, that would encourage more people to make mods and total conversions.

[ZoopahFex]

I know for sure that i am up for a Tyranid mod. Im working hard on some goodie models, I should have the Tyrant done soon enough. After that, ill try some buildings or gaunts ...

If anyone got any good reference for buildings (yes i know forgeworld, thank you :p) or for the Dominatrix/Norn Queen, then that would be greatly appreciated. If these dont exist, then i hope someone will take their time to draw and scan em.

Anyway, heres what im thinking for a "Tech Tree"

HQ Building - Norn Queen, Produces workers (what should the workers be? probably rippers or some sort) and an independant scout force (that isnt synaptic, or it defeats the purpose of being a scout unit, if it needs to have warriors with it) Genestealers really arent the guys for this position, as i think, it should be more like an elite fighter.

Barracks - Dominatrix, produces the smaller weaponry, at first Warriors and Gaunts, so you can easily set up a small force. Gaunts could upgrade to a "sergeant" by adding a Hive Node. Later with upgrades you could get more variation in the mutations, so you can make them leaping and styff.

Research Centre - DNA Pool (or something like that), a central building for storing and processing newly captured DNA. Here you could get the higher upgrades, and later on, get the DNA-Specific units such as the Zoanthrope, Tyrant Guard, Biovore etc

Vehicle Plant - Dominatrix, another maybe bigger dominatrix, that spawns the bigger units, such as Tyrants, Carnifexes etc. Tyrant should get the Hero position i think, as he is the main general. With some super weapons equipped, such as Orbital Spore Attacks (hive fleet ships, that fire spores to the surface)

maybe: titan pool, spawns a Hierodule, but i dunno if this would off balance the faction too much. anyay, orks have squiggots, so why not?

Orbital Relay - Harridan Nest, Like the space marine relay, you can create some units here, and then "droppod" them somewhere on the map. Youll have to buy the harridan first tho, which wont be cheap, and it can be shot out of the air, so it doesnt have the same powerful advantages like the space marines do, but in return, you could drop bigger forces or something.

Has anyone thought of base defense? Spore Chimneys maybe? which shoot those Biovore spores at enemies?

Oh, and im surprised no1 mentioned Old One Eye, or Red Terror before. Anyone have ideas for them?

Anyway, together, well build a kickass mod :) the Tyrant only needs more skinning now, and his front arms ... If anyone has any information regarding 3d model information of DoW, then id really like to hear it. Like how the models are being boned and animated etc Id like to have as much work done when we can start modding, so we have models to work with straight away

[Astral2643]

I am certainly up for this mod - if there's a team starting here, i'd like to be part of it. But as a coder/idea guy/researcher , I have the art skills of a blind hedgehog in a paper bag....

[MusedMark]

In the 41st Millennium. the rule of humanity encompasses almost the entire galaxy, a glittering circle of stars ninety thousand light years from rim to rim. This is the Imperium of Man, the largest and most populous empire of all time, an empire of more than a million worlds and untold billions of human beings. The Imperium is ruled by the ancient and immeasurably powerful Emperor. Once he was a living man but he has long since ceased to live in any normal sense. His body is dead, yet for ten thousand years the Emperor has controlled the destiny of die Imperium, thanks to a complex life-support system which preserves his spirit. His wishes are enacted by means of the Adeptus Administratum, a colossal bureaucratic organisation based upon Earth but with the authority and means to rule the entire galaxy.

Despite the power of the lmperium, the human race remains under constant threat from the many hostile aliens which seek to destroy or enslave mankind. The enemies of humanity are strong, but man has so far proved stronger, more resourceful and ultimately more enduring. This is largely due to the armed forces of the Imperium. Human fleets travel the star clusters of the galactic core and the outer rim. Human armies wage war on planets fifty thousand light years from Earth.

Most important of all, the Space Marines stand ready to combat any threat to the Imperium. They are humanity's finest warriors, bio-adapted to survive on the toughest battlefields, trained as the ultimate fighting men, equipped with the most advanced power armour and the most potent armament from the weaponshops of Mars. In ten thousand years of battle, the Space Marines have served humanity well so that today, despite the relentless pressure of hostile foes, mankind thrives under the beneficent rule of the Emperor and the vigilance of the Space Marines.

Beyond the human galaxy, beyond the range of human space craft and astrotelepathy, lies the unspeakable cold void of intergalactic space. This is a realm into which few men have ventured and from which no-one has ever returned. It is the great barrier which divides galaxy from galaxy. Yet the void is not empty. Through it moves an intelligence, a great creature that is formed from countless billions of creatures, a mind that is many inter-linked minds. This entity, this race, is the Tyranid hive mind, and it has come from a galaxy unimaginably distant. Now its advanced forces have reached the Imperium, and the fate of mankind and every living thing in the galaxy hangs in the balance.

The Tyranids have travelled to the Imperium in a hive fleet consisting of a great dark swarm of many millions of individual spacecraft. Each spacecraft is a gigantic living being, a creature fashioned from organic tissue by means of sophisticated genetic manipulation. The journey across the void has taken eons and during that time the Tyranids have slumbered in a state of frozen hibernation. As the edge of the love fleet approached the Imperium the spacecraft stirred from sleep and their inhabitants slowly began to thaw. However, the hive fleet is so large that its trailing edge still slumbers beyond the galaxy's outer rim. The eternally slow thought processes of the hive mind are gathering pace as more Tyranids wake and recall the age-old purpose of their kind.

The Tyranid hive mind hungers for fresh genetic material, gene-stocks that can be used to create new bio-construct creatures and organic-machines. Their own galaxy is exhausted, its creatures long since absorbed into the hive mind, their flesh turned to machine-like purposes or discarded as useless. The Imperium with its billions of humans and countless other creatures offers the Tyranids an almost inexhaustible stock of flesh and genes which will invigorate the hive mind and enable it to embody itself in new forms.

Humanity will be absorbed, broken into strands of DNA to be used to create a new generation of bio-technology. It will be the death of the human race, but to die Tyranid hive mind it is no more than the mining of a precious mineral or the harvesting of a field of wheat. For the Tyranids have no sense of pity or compassion. they are as utterly beyond human understanding as humans are beyond their comprehension. Where a man sees life. the hive mind sees only something to be consumed. Such has been the fate of a thousand galaxies, of millions of intelligent species, since time immemorial.

TYRANID WARRIORS The Tyranids are the undisputed masters of genetic manipulation and bioengineering. By means of the Great Tyranid Norn-Queens, vast living factory-creatures whose role is to make other creatures, the Tyranids have created the countless bio-constructs that make up the hive fleets.

The Tyranids themselves have six limbs and stand twice the height of a man. Their bodies are covered with thick bony plates which overlap forming a tough natural armour. Pores between their plates exude a colourless slime which oozes over their bodies and drips from their talons. This slime lubricates the inflexible bony plates and prevents friction from gradually wearing away their surfaces.

The Tyranid's lower pair of limbs act as legs, enabling it to move, and end in hard bony hooves - although not primarily intended as weapons a kick from a hoof can easily crush a man's skull. The middle pair of limbs are incredibly strong and end in razor sharp talons - these limbs are used to rip apart an enemy in close combat. The upper limbs are more delicate and end in jointed talons which serve the Tyranid as hands and fingers - these are used to carry weapons and other devices, to operate delicate bio-machines, and for other subtle manipulative tasks.

The limbs are held together by a perforated bony girdle which protects the creature's spine and soft organs from damage. Above the upper arms is a bony neck and the Tyranid's fearsome head equipped with powerful jaws. This basic six-limbed layout is common to many Tyranid bio-engineered creatures, such as Genestealers, and it is quite likely that these creatures are derived from Tyranid gene material or a closely related species from some long forgotten planet of origin.

THE TYRANID HIVE MIND The Tyranid hive mind is a single co-ordinating will that directs the entire hive fleet. The hive mind is formed from untold billions of individual consciousness, each of which is a Tyranid or some other living creature in the hive fleet. Some of these minds are capable of individual rational thought; some are capable of making only limited decisions; and others are mere automatons whose minds perform only basic motor functions. The extent of this ability to act and think freely varies and depends upon the creature's role in the hive fleet.

As all Tyranid technology is based upon biological engineering, even the most simple functions are performed by genetically tailored bio-constructs which have a rudimentary consciousness and so form part of the hive mind. The Tyranid spacecraft are living creatures, and even individual components such as sphincter doors, food hatcheries and teleportation cysts are also highly modified living things. Even the most simple Tyranid devices have their origins as living tissue and have a thread of the hive mind within them.

Tyranids also use gene-manipulation to create new races of servant creatures from captives. These advanced bioconstructs are artificial races bred by the Tyranids. Their minds form part of the hive mind but they can still diink and act for themselves and can make and act upon decisions within the limits engineered into them. There are many hundreds of these races, amongst them the destructive Genestealers, the ponderous Zoats, and the murderous Grabber-Slashers. Although these awesome creatures may look improbable and horrific to human eyes, they are all designed to fulfil some specific role in Tyranid society: for example as advance fighters and infiltrators in the case of Genestealers, ambassador-conquerors in the case of Zoats, and warrior assassins in the cue of Grabber-Slashers.

THE SHADOW IN THE WARP In order to move from planet to planet, human spacecraft travel through an alternate dimension known as warpspace. Warpspace is the medium through which human Astrotelepaths send psychic messages enabling the million worlds of the hnperium to communicate with each other. The Tyranid hive fleet also moves through the warp. Normally any space-craft moving through the warp sets up vibrations which can be detected by a human Astropath, but the hive fleet is so unimaginably vast that it creates an impenetrable disturbance like a huge blocking shadow in the warp. This shadow is the dark, impenetrable will of the hive mind itself, before which the astral spirit of a puny psyker is about as safe as a candle in a hurricane.

Once the Tyranid hive fleet arrives, the shadow cast by the hive mind presents an impenetrable block which prevents Astropaths from sending or receiving telepathic messages, stops spacecraft entering the warp and forces spacecraft already in the warp wildly off-course. As the Tyranid hive fleet advances, the area of the Imperium swallowed up by it simply stops communicating, giving almost no clues as to what has happened.

THE ADVANCE OF THE TYRANIDS The hive fleet has now reached the outer part of the Imperiurn and the entire southeastern spiral arm lies under its dominion. Only now has the full extent of the danger been realised, as fleeing refugees struggle back into free space. Only by tremendous luck have any victims survived at all, their spacecraft pushed thousands of light years through the warp by the advancing edge of the Tyranid hive fleet. A thousand human worlds have already fallen to the invader. Their populations have been consumed or imprisoned by the Tyranids. Even after so short a time new races of human-based bio-constructs are ready to join the hive mind.

Only the vaguest details of the fighting have reached the Imperium. Millions of human warriors have died. Entire chapters of the Imperium's finest Space Marines have vanished without trace with no clue as to their fate. The Lamenters chapter is presumed to have been destroyed and the Scythes of the Emperor chapter has been reduced to a few scattered remnants.

But these human warriors have not died in vain. During the fiercest fighting Space Marine spacecraft engaged ships of the Tyranid fleet. Boarding parties entered the vitals of the immense alien craft, gathering information about the Tyranids and successfully destroying untold thousands of aliens. The information gained by these brave Space Marines is essential if the'ryranids are going to be driven back.

Armed with this precious information the Irnperium prepares for open war against the enemy it has called Hive Fleet Kraken after the mythical monster of Earth's ancient past. The weaponshops of Mars turn out new and more potent machineries of war, gleaming new spacecraft pour from the shipyards of Necromunda, the vast resources of the Imperial Guard gradually swing into action as millions of men prepare to embark on a war for humanity's very survival.

But the Imperium needs time - time which only the remaining Space Marine chapters can give them. The most famous chapters of all, the Dark Angels, the Space Wolves, the Blood Angels and the Ultramarines together with remnants of the Scythes of the Emperor, head towards the hive fleet. Other Space Marine chapters from all over the human galaxy prepare ships to follow in their wake.

TYRANID STARSHIPS Tyranid starships are great living leviathans swimming through the hidden currents of space. Between solar systems, they dive into the warp, naturally adapted to survive the tides of the immaterium. surfacing once again in realspace to feed. They consume the cosmic detritus, the comets and asteroids left by the creation of solar systems. A ship grows as it travels, adapting itself to each new source of food, creating new digestive systems to break down the different "s of matter. The old stomachs atrophy and harden so that an ancient Tyranid starship is a mass of stony growths, often forming a fantastic whorl of armour around the still-growing body.

As a ship moves slowly through the depths of space, the Tyranids hibernate. In the smaller starships, hibernating Tyranids are gathered in small chambers, contained within pods that feed them vital nutrients. In the largest ships there are great halls packed with hibernating Tyranids - in their hundreds and thousands they pass the long years of travel in a dreamless sleep. 'Me only creatures moving around the miles of passages and tubes within a ship are the countless bioconstructs that perform the mindless, repetitive duties necessary to keep the ship healthy.

When a starship approaches a star system, the Tyranids begin to wake. The chemistry of the hive ship itself changes and new hormones are secreted, bringing the Tyranids back from their long sleep. As the ship moves through the outer edges of a star system the hive mind prepares for war.

It is at this point in its journey that the Tyranid ship is most vulnerable. Tyranid Warriors are just beginning to awaken but the ship is as yet lightly defended. A lightning assault can punch its way through the weak defences to sabotage the ship's vital organs. If the ship dies, so does its cargo of Tyranid Warriors and bio-constructs. Those still in hibernation never awaken as the supply of life-sustaining fluids dries up. Those who are awake and survive the attack are doomed to drift on the dying spaceship as it floats out into the cold of interstellar space.

It is generally the smaller Tyranid ships that are attacked in this way. The largest ships are unimaginably vast and are better left as targets for the battlecruisers of the Imperial Navy. But the Navy can't patrol every star system - sometimes there isn't time for a message to be sent before the shadow in the warp cuts the system off. At these times, the Irnperiun must depend upon the loyalty and heroism of whatever forces are available. If the system is lucky there will be Space Marines stationed there, for their bravery is beyond question, their skill as warriors beyond compare.

THE GREAT TYRANID NORN-QUEENS Within some of the spacecraft of the Tyranid hive fleet are huge chambers many hundreds of metres high. Widiin each chamber is a creature so vast that its great, pulsing bulk almost fills the entire structure. This is a Nom-Queen, also known as a Splicer-Beast, a creature whose function is to make other creatures. Every living creature in the Tyranid hive fleet owes its ultimate origins to the Nom-Queen, including the Tyranids themselves. Long ago the Tyranids gave up whatever primitive form of reproduction afflicted their kind, and adopted genetic cloning as their sole form of reproduction. A Nom-Queen is a huge biological machine, a factory whose only concern is to produce other creatures.

BIO-CONSTRUCTS All the weird creatures that live in the hive fleet, including the Tyranids themselves. are created by means of the Norn-Queens. Genetic material in dw form of captive creatures and corpse scavengers called Coffin-Crawlers is fed into the great maws located at the top of the Nom-Queen and synthesised by its genetic shredder organs. The dissembled DNA structures form a gene-bank which provides the raw material from which new creatures called bio-constructs are created. Once a type of bio-construct has been designed more identical creatures can be cloned by the Nom-Queens.

The many kinds of bio-construct emerge in different ways from different parts of the huge Splicer Beasts. Clusters of eggs spill from rows of ovipository orifices along its flanks, fluid filled depressions on its upper surface writhe with maggot-like larvae, foetal sacs hang like ripe fruit from umbilical branches, and huge larval Teleporter Worms burst from incubator pouches on the Nom-Queen's sides. Simpler bio-constructs may emerge already in their adult form to be gathered and directed by the horde of creatures which feed and serve the Nom-Queen. Most bio-constructs are born as tiny wriggling larvae or may begin life as eggs which must be nurtured further before they hatch and develop into adults.

The ships of the hive fleets swarm with thousands of different kinds of bio-constructed creatures. For example, tiny multiarmed creatures roam the innards sucking up detritus and processing it into a sickly nutrient which they store in their swollen bodies and then feed to other creatures. CoffinCrawlers consume fresh corpses and grow in bulk until they are ready to return to the Nom-Queen, carrying their swollen bodies back to feed the Nom-Queen itself. Another kind of bio-construct is the globe-like creature which hangs from the upper surfaces of the ship's tunnels; these creatures synthesise a huninous chemical inside their own bodies proving a dim green light for others to see by.

These are just a few bio-constructs but there are many others which maintain the ship in good working order, provide food and guard vulnerable areas. The ship's various controls and facilities are themselves bio-constructs, although they are immobile and function much like biological versions of teleporters, air recycling systems and communications networks.

Small bio-constructs tend not to be very bright They go about their genetically-determined tasks with a satisfyingly singleminded persistence, largely untroubled by the higher purposes of the hive mind. Far more dangerous to intruders are the larger bio-constructed races such as the Genestealers, Zoats and Grabber Slashers. There are many others too, some of which are relatively rare whilst others are very common. No matter how large or how intelligent they are, all bio-constructs form part of the hive mind and are an integral part of the hive fleet and Tyranid society.

GENESTEALERS Genestealer is one of the most deadly of all Tyranid bio-construct creatures. It is very likely that the Genestealer was created from the genetic structure of the Tyranids themselves, or if not then a very closely related species. Like Tyranids, Genestealers have six limbs, including ferocious, taloned mid-limbs which are used to tear enemies apart in hand-to-hand fighting. Genestealers are the shock and infiltration troops of the Tyranids. They are fast and deadly but they can also hide in alien societies for years, interbreeding with the native creatures and producing generations of Hybrid Genestealer creatures ready to join a full-scale invasion.

Although it seems unlikely that a creature so terrifying as a Genestealer could hide in human society, they achieve this by implanting their genetic structure inside unsuspecting humans. This genetic material is passed down to the offspring of the infected humans, creating a generation which includes monstrous Genestealer Hybrids as well as seemingly normal children. The Hybrids are genetic time bombs whose own descendants will eventually become fully-developed Purestrain Genestealers. The effect is quite horrifying suddenly for no apparent reason monstrous Genestealers start to appear all over the world, destroying and enslaving humans in preparation for the arrival of the Tyranid hive fleet. Mature Genestealers, called Patriarchs act as psychic beacons which attract the Tyranid hive fleets, signalling that their world is ready for invasion. Genestealers are also ideal warrior-guardians, so the spacecraft of the hive fleet contain many of these creatures to defend against infiltrators and invaders.

ZOATS Zoats are probably a very ancient strain of bio-construct because they share the same six-limbed structure as Tyranids and Genestealers. It is quite likely that this sextrupedal form is derived from the native creatures of the lost Tyranid homeworld in whatever remote galaxy they originally came from. Zoats are robust creatures with thick powerful limbs. Only their upper arms are used to hold or carry things; the lower two pairs are used for movement and have horny toes rather like a rhino.

Zoats have been specially developed so that they can communicate with alien creatures. Their minds are capable of tremendous leaps of logic and they are able to master new languages with astonishing speed. This enables Zoats to act as ambassadors to races taken over by the Tyranids and it also enables the Tyranids to find out about the races they have conquered. No matter how strange or mentally incompatible a race might be, the Zoats can learn how they think and act, and thereby access their true value to the Tyranids. Zoats are also tremendously strong and have thick horny skins. When they unleash their warrior skills they can destroy many times their own number of humans or other races, a feat which may serve to impress upon the defeated creatures just how superior the Tyranids are.

HUNTER-SLAYERS Of all the Tyranid bio-constructs, the Hunter-Slayer most closely resembles the Tyranid Warriors. The most apparent different is only size, for the Hunter-Slayers are much smaller than a Tyranid at only two metres tall. Hunter-Slayers are incredibly fast and ferocious creatures so that although they don't have the strength or resilience of a Tyranid they're far more mobile.

Hunter-Slayers move quickly through the small arterial tubeways in the hive ships, exploiting their size and speed by wriggling through narrow ventricles and soft constricted passages. Their role is to protect the hive ships from intruders, moving swiftly from one part of the craft to another in search of their foes. When enemies are discovered, whole swamis of Hunter-Slayers burst from the narrow orifices and vents in the tunnel walls, dropping on their foes from above and wreaking havoc with their sharp talons and deadly bio-weapons.

Given the similarity between Hunter-Slayers and Tyranids, it is likely that the Hunter-Slayers are a very ancient kind of bio-construct developed from Tyranids genes, possibly as a sort of fast attack warrior

GRABBER-SLASHERS The Grabber-Slasher is a destructive warrior assassin which has certain biological traits in common with Orks, including blood containing symbiotic algae which enables the creature to digest its prey. Indeed, it is possible that the Grabber-Slasher has been created from Ork captives, in which case it heralds the birth of new bio-constructs based upon creatures from the human galaxy. The algae in the Grabber-Slasher's bloodstream synthesises the genetic material of its victims which is then absorbed into the Grabber-Slasher's body enabling it to gradually mutate its own form. However, the Grabber-Slasher can always revert to its basic GrabberSlasher shape. although the change may take a day or so to complete.

Its powerful body is very muscular and it can propel itself along by its tail. A single flick of its tail sends it bounding through the air towards its chosen target. The target is then grabbed by the clawed hand-like organ on top, and immediately disembowelled by means of the razor-sharp protrusion underneath. Grabber-Slashers are very single-minded creatures: if instructed to assassinate a particular individual they will stop at nothing until the target is dead, ignoring all other threats to themselves entirely.

MIND SLAVES The Tyranids have come to the human galaxy in search of fresh genetic material to feed their Nom-Queen and revitalise the hive fleet after its long journey through space. However, not all captives are fed to the Nom-Queen; some are useful simply as food for the Tyranid bio-construcu. And some are sacrificed to the breeding programs of other creatures; it is their grisly fate to become hosts for immature grubs or the larvae of a bio-construct.

If the Tyranids want to store a captive so that he can be eaten, genetically shredded or used as a breeder host at a later date, then a special biocontruct called a Shroud-Spinner weaves an anaesthetising cocoon round the victim to keep him alive and fresh. This is the reason why traps assaulting a Tyranid ship sometimes find whole chambers of these cocooned victims.

One particular creature which feeds upon a captive during its larval stage is the parasitic Mind-Slaver. The mature MindSlaver is a crab-like bio-device which is used by the Tyranids to gain temporary control over another bio-machine which has malfunctioned or been damaged. As such, the Mind-Slaver takes over the individual mind of the bio-machine and allows the hive mind to control its mechanical functions.

The larval form of the creature is about the size of a pea or small pebble. When the egg laid by the Nom-Queen hatches, the creature is introduced to a living captive. It burrows into the captive's skull and searches out the brain stem. Here it clasps in place with its legs and attaches itself to the base of the medulla.

At first the immature creature is not powerful enough to influence its host but, as it feeds from the host's blood stream it becomes stronger, allowing the hive mind to seep into the host's brain and eventually take over and direct all of the creatures higher brain functions. These victims are known as mind slaves. Although they're captives, their actions and thoughts are completely controlled by the Tyranid hive mind.

Eventually the Mind-Slaver outgrows and destroys its host but, until it does so, the mind slave moves about the ship and performs tasks under the direction of the hive mind.

If the ship is attacked, the mind slaves will be amongst the first to move to its defence, especially if they belong to an armed warrior race whose fighting skills may be usefully employed by the Tyranids. As the Space Marines move through the spacecraft they may meet mind slaves controlled by the Tyranid hive mind and will recognise many of the creatures of the Warhammer 40,000 galaxy including Chaos Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Orks and Eldar.

The ultimate fate of a mind slave is to be sacrificed to the next part of the life cycle of a mind slaver. When it is quite large and almost fills the cranial cavity of its host, the Mind-Slaver exudes a chemical which encysts the host, dissolves him from the inside and turns his body into nutritious soup. The Mind Slaver feeds off this soup and grows into its adult form.



HIVE FLEET BEHEMOTH

The first contact the Imperium of mankind had with the alien menace of the Tyranids took place on a little-known Imperial outpost in the Tyran system located on the south-eastern fringes of the galaxy. The planet Tyran was an Adeptus Mechanicus way-station for Explorator expeditions studying the virtually unknown sectors at the edge of the galaxy. Because of its isolation the base was well protected despite its small size and boasted an Astropath for communication with the Earth, over 60,000 light years away.

The first disquieting reports from Tyran told of a number of ravaged worlds which lay at the very edge of intergalactic space. In ancient surveys these particular planets had been logged as supporting life but more recent expeditions reported them to be bare, airless rocks. At first nothing untoward was apparent: the earlier surveys were hundreds, sometimes thousands, of years old and inaccuracies were not uncommon.

As time passed the Technomagi found that worlds which were known to have thriving ecosystems had been transformed into barren planetoids. Investigation teams could find no discernible cause for the phenomena and the reports filed with the Explorator General received little attention. The planets in question had supported no sentient life forms and lay thousands of light years from the nearest human-colonised systems. In a galaxy of a billion worlds such mysteries abounded, so for a time the information languished in the hundreds of miles of databanks that form the archives of the Administratum on Earth.

As the Tyran outpost dutifully continued to file reports of dead worlds the growing body of evidence attracted the attention of an organisation that abhors mysteries and unexplained phenomena: the Inquisition. Inquisitor Kryptman, well-respected for his far-sighted condemnation of the Macharlan Heresies, began to ask probing questions about events in the distant south-east. The Adepts of the Explorator's office could offer little additional information but as soon as Inquisitor Kryptman compiled and analysed the reports on the extinct worlds it became apparent that the phenomenon exhibited a distinct pattern, and was encroaching ever deeper into the galactic rim.

The Inquisitor presented his findings to the council of the Inquisition and received dispensation to commandeer a ship to travel to the eastern fringe and uncover more data. But even as the Inquisitor's ship was churning through the warp Tyran came under attack.

ASSAULT ON TYRAN The Tyran Primus base lay in the midst of Tyran's great world-spanning oceans, dug into an island that was the very tip of a chain of ancient volcanoes. The oceans of Tyran covered over 80% of the world's surface and were home to a dizzying array of marine life ranging from the small and innocuous scuttlefish to the highly dangerous 200 metre long kraken. The base itself was fortified to resist violent storms and the attentions of the voracious oceanic life forms. Tyran Primus also had four giant defence lasers in armoured silos for defence against marauding alien space craft and any unknown monstrosities lurking in the deep oceanic abyss.

Over four hundred personnel manned the base Administratum scribes, Explorators, Adeptus Mechanicus Genetors, Engineers, Lexmechanics, their entourage Servitors and a single Astropath. They were under the command of Magos Varnak. a member of the ruling caste the Cult Mechanicus. Explorator ships passed through the Tyran system to collect supplies and deliver reports every three to six months. The last ship to depart was the Investigation, destined to survey worlds on the Eastern Fring though Varnak feared all he would receive were further reports of extinct planets.

Over a month after the departure of the Investigation Tyran Primus detected a cloud of close to a thousand unidentified objects entering the Tyran star system. After initial studies revealed the cloud was made up of neither spacecraft n debris Magos Varnak piloted one of the station's small system ships towards the cloud to investigate further. When approached, the ship came under attack by unknown object almost immediately. Magos Varnak was injured, several oft crew were killed and the ship itself was so badly crippled barely survived the journey back to Tyran. As he recovered from his injuries Varnak grimly ordered the base to alert status and armed the Servitors who would act as the first line defence if there were an invasion.

A week later the first attacks began on the base. The stom-wracked skies of Tyran were split again and again by the blinding flash of the defence lasers as they strove to drive t] attackers away. Bolts of laser energy capable of melting through whole city blocks lanced into space as projectiles launched by the enemy above smashed down on the base. Silo 2 was shaken and cracked by several hits but the chants a ceremonies of the Tech Priests kept it firing.

The uneven battle raged on for an hour or more as the bra laser crews blasted at the hundreds of invaders around Tyran before, amazingly, the enemy simply withdrew. Varnak sent his three remaining system ships in pursuit of the foe. They added to the destruction already wrought by the ground-bas lasers and confirmed Varnak's earlier observations of the attackers. The objects appeared to be creatures of alien origin vast armoured organisms with thick carapaces that were apparently fully adapted for life in space.

The system ships were quickly crippled or destroyed by the bio-ships and Magos Varnak was informed that the defences of Tyran had damaged or destroyed only a dozen creatures out of a swarm of close to a thousand. He was forced to conclusion that should the invaders attack again and with greater vigc the base on Tyran was doomed. Escape was impossible. All that remained was to try and warn the Imperium before selling themselves as dearly as possible.

But the Astropath could broadcast no messages. The disruptions caused in the warp by the creatures' arrival made it impossible to use astrotelepathy. In a few hours or days the warp might clear but for the moment Tyran was completely cut off. To preserve what knowledge they had Varnak ordered a data codex to be formed of all the information gathered about the invaders. The data codex would be set to record the fate of the base until it was sealed at a signal from Varnak's control pulpit and dropped into a 3,000 metre deep bore shaft beneath the base. Even as the codex was being prepared the aliens moved in to attack positions once more.

As they came within laser range the invaders released thousands of pods above the planet. The pods fell toward Tyran in tight clusters and did not break up as they hit the atmosphere. Though the laser defences destroyed any pods which would have impacted on the base many more fell into the sea around it. To enter the sea was death for a human yet the aliens could be seen approaching the base on sonar scan. The seas thrashed and boiled as more aliens emerged from their pods and hacked their way through the voracious native beasts that swarmed around them.

Defence laser fire ripped into the bio-ships as they began an intense bombardment of the base. Several of the creatures fell burning into the atmosphere but the bombardment continued. Hissing acids ate through the armoured laser silos and one by one they were silenced. Magos Varnak watched the advance of the aliens on the crystal screens of the sacristy. The creatures were upright and six-limbed, clawed and fanged like fiends. The scattered defensive fire ricocheted off their thick hides and heavy carapaces like hailstones.

The aliens attacked the south dock and smashed their way through the electro field and armourplas shutters as if they were paper and glass. Servitors guarding the dock fought back with flamers and the first invaders through the breach were slain or driven back hissing their defiance. But other creatures, screaming giants with arms like great scythes, waded forward and Magos Varnak watched in horror as they shrugged off the napalm fires and hacked their way through the Servitors as if they were made of straw.

In an instant the enemy were through the dock and spreading through the base, destroying everything they found. Magos Varnak's finger hovered over the switch that would send the data codex plummeting into the depths. Every moment might give some additional insight into the enemy, but every moment brought the fighting closer to the sacristy. Smaller, scuttling creatures appeared in the enemy ranks and began to cast constricting webs over the Servitors and Tech-Priests as they fought in the corridors.

Varnak looked to the station Astropath and both understood that they could not allow themselves to be captured by this new and terrible alien race. Varnak released the codex and descended into the reactor chamber to set the station destruct sequence. Even as he completed his prayer the doors of the sacristy were buckling and tearing before the fury of the assault from outside, and with only seconds remaining Magos Varnak struck the sacred rune of ending upon the power altar.

Earth received one final, garbled message from Tyran. On the wings of death came a dire prophesy of doom and a mental image of the skies over Tyran turned black with swarming monsters. From the world of Tyran the invaders acquired a name at last - Tyranids.

THANDROS TO MACRAGGE Inquisitor Kryptman received word of the last message from Tyran months after the attack. By the time his ship reached the Tyran system almost a year had passed and at first he could not equate the dead, dry planet he found to ocean-bound Tyran at all. After a long search Inquisitor Kryptman unearthed Varnak's data codex and learned the full horror of the alien threat menacing the Imperium.

As the Inquisitor's ship left the Tyran system it encountered the acid-eaten hulk of the investigation, declared missing months before. The vessel appeared to have been crippled and then boarded: all of the crew were missing and the ship was little more than an icy shell. Clearly the same foe that attacked Tyran had destroyed the Investigation and perhaps even followed its trail through the warp back to the Tyran Primus base.

Kryptman ordered his Astropath to send a priority warning to the Imperium but the Astropath could not penetrate the warp turmoil left by the passing of the alien fleet. Even the nearby Thandros telepathica booster matrix was obscured. In desperation Kryptman set course for Thandros in the hopes of re-establishing communications there.

But the Tyranids had attacked Thandros and moved on long before the arrival of Inquisitor Kryptman. Thandros was not as well protected as Tyran. The miners living in tunnels on Thandros II and III could not hide from the Tyranids or escape into space. The telepathica matrix orbiting Thandros I was later found to have emptied all of its turret magazines and burned out its defence laser crystal before it was overrun. Nonetheless the Telepathica adepts manning the base were unable to send word of their plight to the Imperium because of the Tyranids' psychic blockade. The Thandros system fought and died alone.

Kryptman salvaged the telepathica matrix and sent his message to warn the unsuspecting Imperium of the magnitude of the Tyranid threat. The Astropath, red-eyed with weariness after days of concentration broadcasting Varnak' s codex and Kryptman's report, gave the Inquisitor instructions to travel to the planet Macragge in Ultramar, the empire of the Ultramarines Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes. There he would assist the Master of the Chapter in locating and eliminating the Tyranid fleet. As dictated by Imperial tradition the alien hive fleet of the Tyranids had been codified with an ancient and forbidding name from legend: Behemoth.

The Navigator of Kryptman's ship strained to follow the guiding light of the Astronomican through the swirling energies of warp space as the ship pushed through the shoals and reefs of that most capricious medium. At times the undertow left by Hive Fleet Behemoth threatened to lose the ship in the warp forever but the Navigator avoided every whirlpool and riptide with consummate skill, the elongated teardrop formed by the warp drives of the Inquisition ship slipping through the Immaterium like oil through water.

In the Macragge system a dozen other ships already hung in orbit and each day more arrived from the warp. Lumbering Space Marine battle barges hung over Macragge like gigantic azure monoliths etched with the gaping maws of weapon bays, launch tubes and heavy bombardment turrets. These leviathans dwarfed even the sleek strike cruisers arriving from the Ultramarines' furthest outposts. Orbital fortresses and ponderous systems defence monitors surrounded Macragge with a ring of firepower.

Inquisitor Kryptman met with Marneus Calgar, Master of the Ultramarines, beneath the portico of his palace of brilliant white marble perched high in rugged mountains above the glittering seas of Hera. Calgar stood as a giant even among the genetically altered Space Marines. Nothing escaped his piercing blue eyes and even Kryptman' s terrible discoveries did not disturb his noble demeanour.

The Ultramarines were readying themselves for all-out war with the Tyranids. The Emperor had despatched a Segmentum Tempestus battlefleet from the orbital docks at Bakka. Calgar felt that Macragge was the system most immediately threatened by hive fleet Behemoth. Macragge itself, already well-protected, was being even more heavily fortified and would be held tenaciously by Ultramarines and planetary defence auxilia until the combined Ultramar and Imperial fleet arrived to take on the hive fleet.

A month later the Tyranids attacked Macragge, their fleet of over a thousand vessels sweeping aside attacks by Ultramarines strike cruisers as they pushed insystem. With no sign of the Imperial fleet from Bakka, Calgar was forced to use the Ultramar fleet in a risky ploy. By leaving Macragge and retreating outsystem Calgar drew the Tyranids onto the defences of Macragge as they sought to encircle it and invade. The Ultramar fleet struck the aliens while they were spread out and vulnerable, successfully carving a bloody swathe through their fleet as Calgar tried to fight his way back through to the protection of the big guns of Macragge.

At the height of the battle Ultramar fighters from Macragge crippled one of the largest Tyranid hive ships and this seemed to fatally disrupt the cohesion of the hive fleet. The Tyranids' attacks became increasingly uncoordinated and Calgar's fleet reaped a great tally of fallen bio-ships. As the battle raged the Tyranids unleashed thousands of spores above the vital northern and southern polar fortresses which were the keystones of Macragge's defences. Each spore that fell to earth cracked open to reveal a Tyranid creature and soon thousands of Tyranids were marching across the ice fields towards the fortresses.

In space the battered hive ships retreated and, desperate to prevent their escape, Calgar' s tiny fleet gave chase. Though Calgar feared for the polar fortresses he knew they were well guarded by Ultramarines of the 1st Company supported by defence auxilia and Titans of the Legio Praetor. Most of the 1st Company were formed into Terminator squads equipped with tactical dreadnought armour and the best personal weaponry in the Imperium. Entrnsting the fate of Macragge to these veteran warriors, Calgar chose to pursue the Tyranid hive fleet.

The Tyranid swarms on Macragge surged on towards the polar fortresses. Sickle-clawed beasts bounded forward across snowy plains scored by lasers, their numbers blurring individuals into a shifting mass of slicing hooks and piercing talons, others wheeled through the bleak, grey skies on leathery wings and drooled their liquid fire on the defenders below. The ear splitting rattle of bolters and the thump of artillery drowned out the bestial, hate-filled screams of the swarming Tyranids but they swept on with implacable ferocity.

The veteran Space Marines of the 1st Company led the lightly armed defence auxilia in a tenacious defence of the fortresses, holding every wall and trench until the last possible moment before it was overrun by the swarm. Slowly the troops withdrew ever deeper into the fortress while making the Tyranids pay in blood for every yard of ground. The Titans of Legio Praetor stalked the ice fields and drove smoking furrows through the onrushing Tyranid hordes with shells and plasma. Crippled Ultramarine ships which Calgar had left in orbit above hurled down bolts of ruby flame and megatons of explosive death at the Tyranids, but still they came on.

The ferocity of the swarms was unbelievable. At the northern fortress they overran the walls by using the steaming piles of their own dead for cover. Titans were dragged down and ripped apart by sheer weight of numbers, like lions being swarmed over by soldier ants. Weapon barrels glowed red hot and jammed in spite of the arctic cold, ammunition began to run low though the fortress contained stockpiles for months of siege. The snows around the fortresses were stained arterial purple with Tyranid ichor.

As the fighting became close and deadly lumbering scythe-armed giants tore into the defenders' ranks like living battering rams, smashing their way through metal and rockcrete walls with equal fury. Even the Terminators could not stand against Tyranids in hand-to-hand fighting. Six-limbed, armed and armoured in shining chitin, the creatures sprang forward with blinding swiftness, their claws lashing out to rip through ceramite and adamantium with impossible ease. The Ultramarines had to rely on the heavy short-range firepower of their storm bolters, heavy flamers and Assault cannon to bring down the foe.

At the southern fortress stalking creatures penetrated deep into the labyrinthine corridors beneath the citadel through a supposedly inaccessible disposal culvert. The mantis-clawed horrors slew dozens of auxilia troopers from ambush in the maze of dark corridors and rooms before they were finally hunted down and eliminated by Terminator squads. Some men were driven mad with fear or paralysed with terror as the Tyranids broke through the perimeter again and again. With each perimeter breach the Ultramar garrisons had to withdraw to a new defence line. The Ultramarines were forced back, step by step, by the alien tide of organic killing machines.

In space Calgar pursued the Tyranid fleet toward the ringed world of Circe at the edge of the Macragge system. The timely arrival of the Tempestus fleet from Bakka finally sealed th Tyranids' fate by catching them in a vice between the tw fleets. In a desperate fight the combined human fleet destroyed the remaining hive ships at a great cost in men and ships.

The Tempestus fleet of over two hundred warships including the huge Emperor class battleship Dominus Astra was almost completely wiped out in a titanic battle around Circe. The battle was only won by the heroic sacrifice of the Dominus Astra charging into the heart of the hive fleet and triggering it's warp drives. The Tyranids were destroyed in an uncontrolled warp vortex which also dragged the Dominus Astra tc oblivion. Calgar's surviving ships came about and roared back to Macragge to try and save the beleaguered polar garrisons.

The remnants of the Ultramar garrisons had been forced deep underground by wave after wave of Tyranids. The survivors of the Ultramarines 1st Company were still fighting amongst the coolant stores and capacitors of the giant defence laser silos of the northern citadel but all contact with them was lost after the Tyranids completely overran the surface outposts. At the southern fortress the remaining 1st Company detachments had been destroyed when they attempted a counter-attack against a vital bastion captured by the Tyranids. Small pockets of Ultramar resistance still held out in bunkers above ground. Calgar, feeling that the situation was becoming critical, sent the 3rd and 7th Ultramarines Companies ahead in their fast strike cruisers while his remaining damaged ships limped back to Macragge.

As the sleek strike cruisers swooped over Macragge the Space Marines of the 3rd and 7th Companies were deployed by drop pod onto the poles with their supporting units following up in gunships. Scenes of unbelievable carnage awaited them below. Piles of mangled Tyranid corpses and shattered wargear lay strewn across the ice. Vast steaming craters pocked the snows where Titan plasma reactors had melted down and the stench of death lay everywhere.

The 7th Company, dropping on the southern fortress, landed unopposed and quickly linked up with the survivors of the garrison above ground. Together they pushed on to clear the subterranean passages which had been overrun. Only a handful of Tyranids remained to oppose them but they fought back with maniacal ferocity. Initial progress was bloody, with several advance squads being attacked by lone Tyranids or small groups which took their toll. But the Tyranids' attacks lacked strategy or coordination and most of the creatures were riddled with bolter fire as they emerged from cover.

In the north the 3rd Company came under attack as soon as it landed. Hundreds of creatures emerged from dark tunnel mouths and shattered bunkers to assail the Space Marines, threatening to overrun their dropzone by sheer force of numbers. Only staunch defensive fire laid down by the company s Devastator squads kept the alien swarm at bay until Thunderhawk gunships arrived to blast the Tyranids back below ground. Captain Fabian of the 3rd Company prudently awaited the arrival of the company's three Dreadnoughts before proceeding into the fortress itself to search for survivors.

The dark, dank corridors beneath the northern fortress were already subtly altered by the aliens' presence. Mucous dripped from the walls and ceilings and a pervasive musky stench filled the air. Alien screams and roars echoed and re-echoed weirdly along the tunnels. Warily, the Space Marines pushed forward, the darkness moving back reluctantly before their suit lights. The corridors were littered with Tyranid and Ultramar dead and even bio-scanners failed to identify the creatures that lay in ambush amongst the corpses. Such lone attackers wreaked havoc at close quarters, slashing into the advance squads in an orgy of destruction before they were killed.

Eventually the forward squads started to use flamers to burn their way along the passages and flush out their enemy. Even as the creatures burned they still leapt forward with claws outstretched to rip and slay.

Two full squads of Space Marines were killed in a lightning fast flank attack by a dozen Tyranids at an intersection. Only the presence of a Dreadnought blocked their rampage through the company's perimeter, and the Dreadnought itself had one arm ripped off by the creatures before it cut through them with its assault cannon. As the company entered a great chamber below Silo 8 they were assailed from all sides as a nightmarish horde of creatures sprang from the shadows.

A hail of obscene projectiles struck at the Space Marines, burning through their armour and spraying them with vile corrosive mucous. Chain swords clashed against curving blades of bone and bolters chanted their catechism of death as the Ultramarines desperately fought back. A mighty Tyranid lord, huge as a Dreadnought, thundered into the Space Marines' line. Three Space Marines fell to a single sweep of its curving blade before a Dreadnought charged into the monster.


A titanic struggle ensued as monster and machine battled to the death. The Dreadnought reeled back as the Tyranid struck it a mighty blow, sparks flew as the Dreadnought's power fist crashed into beast's carapace. Pouring ichor from its wounds the creature raised its blade and chopped through the machine's leg to send it crashing to the ground.

The beast howled in triumph and raised its blade to deliver the killing blow as Captain Fabian leapt forward into the fray. Power sword and alien blade clashed together with a cracking energy discharge. The beast swung a mighty overhead blow at Fabian as he staggered back from the discharge but the captain leaped aside and the blade buried itself in the rockcrete floor with a flash of power. In the fraction of a second before the creature freed its blade Fabian levelled his plasma pistol at the creature and fired, the incandescent blast catching it full in the head as Fabian pumped shot after shot into the creature. The beast reared up with a final ululating howl of agony and fell back dead.

All around, the Ultramarines were on the verge of being overwhelmed, only the psychic blasts of the Librarian were stopping the Tyranids completing the slaughter. But as the Tyranid lord fell many of its minions turned tail and were cut down by bolters as they fled. Those that fought on were blasted apart as the Ultramarines resorted to firing amongst their own troops to finally prevail. At the end of the fight barely a quarter of the company had survived and all three Dreadnoughts were damaged. Captain Fabian grimly ordered his remaining men to continue the hunt for survivors.

Once more the greatly reduced company cleared its way forward with flamers and finally reached the lower penitorium where the 1st Company had made their last stand. Tyranid bodies were piled six deep around the doors and within the room a circle of Terminators lay where they had fought hack to back. They were still and lifeless, every one having given his life against the Tyranid hordes. The Ultramarines' 1st Company had been wiped out to the last man, a grievous blow from which the Chapter has still to fully recover.

Hive Fleet Behemoth had been stopped, but only at a grievous cost to the Imperium of Mankind. In the aftermath of the first Tyrannic war there was little the Imperium could do to strike back at its foe. Behemoth had arrived from a virtually unexplored quarter and had disappeared completely after the Battle of Macragge. The trail of the hive fleet led back to the empty void of intergalactic space.

The Techno Magi of Mars spent many years classifying the Tyranid artefacts and bodies left on Macragge but could divine little from the evidence. The obvious facts were that, like the Eldar, the Tyranids used a form of bio-technology to organically form weaponry (though Tyranid weapons were limited to short-ranged projectiles and close combat weaponry) and that the Tyranids themselves formed an incredibly diverse race, more so than even the Orks. Gretchin and Snotlings which infest the galaxy.

The only discovery of great note was that the Tyranids had employed Genestealers as shock troops. These creatures had previously been thought to be autochthonous denizens of the moons of Ymgarl that had spread through space onboard cargo barges. Their presence amongst the Tyranid hordes was testament that this theory was in error. Genetic samples indicated they were Tyranid creatures, so why were they already established far to the galactic north-west? The Salamanders Chapter of Space Marines conducted a xenocide campaign to purge the moons of Ymgarl and Inquisitors intensified their scrutiny for Genestealer infestations but nothing more could be done.



HIVE FLEET KRAKEN

Two and a half centuries passed with neither sight nor sound of further Tyranid incursions. Some members of Earth's Adeptus Administratum began to question the necessity of maintaining so many armed forces in the galactic south-east to resist a non-existent Tyranid threat. They argued that the hive fleet had represented the sum total of the Tyranid race and that it had been destroyed at Macragge. When inhabited worlds along the south-eastern fringe began to suffer an epidemic of riots, terrorism, sabotage and, in some cases, outright rebellion the same Adeptus claimed the people had become dissatisfied with living in the midst of an armed camp and chosen to violently illustrate their displeasure.

The Inquisition suspected a plot and moved quickly to 'investigate" the dissenters for signs of treasonous thoughts or heretical influence. It was soon established that all of the dissenting Administratum officials either originated from the south-eastern fringes or had travelled there at some point in their career. No other unifying factors could be found, and many of the suspected traitors had never even met each other.

Inquisitors were dispatched from the Inquisition fortress at Talasa Prime to fully investigate the Ultima rebellions. Meanwhile, the Inquisition instigated a terrifying purge throughout the Imperium and particularly on Earth, incarcerating anyone in high office who had had contact with the Eastern Fringe. Tens of thousands were dragged away by the Arbites to languish in prison colonies while the investigation continued.

ICHAR IV The Imperium's first concern was the rebellion on the industrial world of Ichar IV. The Ichar system is vital to the Imperium. Its gigantic factories and sprawling refineries form the lynch pin of one of the few densely populated sectors in the Ultima Segmentum. Thousands of ships carrying ore and myco-protein pass through Ichar's huge orbital docks each year.

The rebellion had been swift and bloody. Years before, a religious fundamentalist group called the Brotherhood had caught the hearts and minds of the impoverished city workers. Their preaching of the return of the Emperor had promised better times to come and a place in heaven at his side, the kind of spiritual comfort most sought after by those without power or privilege in life.

The Brotherhood's mercy missions and chapels had soon become a common sight in the poorest districts and their good works were legendary. The Ecclesiarchy had carefully monitored the Brotherhood for any taint of iconoclasm or heresy but had found nothing, if the reports were to be believed, but the most laudable of faith in the Emperor. Eventually permission was sought and granted for the Brotherhood to build a cathedral in Lomas, Ichar IV's largest city.

Shortly after the completion of the cathedral the trouble began. The Brotherhood refused to pay its tithes to the Planetary Governor and refused to allow its members to be inducted into the Planetary Defence Force. Brotherhood preachers began whipping the populace into a frenzy with predictions of the imminent return of the Emperor. Vigilante Brotherhood militias started to patrol in many areas, brutalising far more "unbelievers" than non-existent criminals.

REBELLION AND WAR Matters came to a head when rioting broke out at a Brotherhood mass rally held before the great cathedral. Arbitrators moved in to break up the crowds with power mauls and suppression shields but were fired on from the cathedral itself. The Arbites returned fire, killing several Brotherhood militia and enraging the great mass of people. After beating off several charges by the mob the Arbitrators were forced to withdraw by the arrival of another, larger mob from the poor district.

Rioting spread throughout the city and the Arhites were unable to suppress it. When PDF troops were called from their barracks to assist the Arbitrators most of them rebelled and came out in favour of the Brotherhood. Vicious fighting broke out all over the city and, when it came to light that the Planetary Governor had been assassinated, the fighting spread to every city on Ichar IV. Within hours tanks daubed with Brotherhood symbols and flying crude revolutionary banners held most of the intersections and utilities in Lomas and the Imperial forces were being pushed back in other cities.

Dawn brought full news of the assassination of the planetary governor and most of his ministers. Some were killed by bombs, others by snipers, others were murdered with their households in horrific massacres which looked like the attacks of wild beasts or mob violence. Shortly afterwards the Brotherhood seized all broadcast stations and announced their new theocratic government.

Loyal forces still controlled much of the countryside outside the cities and the judges of the Adeptus Arbites still held their precinct fortress against the rebellious populace inside Lomas. Nonetheless, most of the world's cities had been captured in a full scale rebellion against the Emperor of Mankind. Inquisitor Agmar arrived on Ichar twenty seven days after the outbreak of rebellion, on the same day that the Arbites precinct fortress was finally overrun by Brotherhood forces. The judges were not to be so easily defeated, however. Most of their number escaped along a secret tunnel and captured the city's four main power generators.

To Inquisitor Agmar's eyes the situation on Ichar IV had the appearance of a well-orchestrated plot rather than the upsurge of popular opinion being depicted by the Brotherhood. Agmar requested the assistance of the Ultramarmnes Chapter of Space Marines to help the Imperial forces regain full control of Ichar IV. While they awaited the arrival of the Ultramarines the Imperial Guard regiments on Ichar bombarded the cities and held off ferocious counter-attacks made by Brotherhood militia battalions.

Repeated attempts to reach the trapped Arbites met with failure in the dense rubble surrounding the generator plant. Amidst piles of crumbled rockerete and twisted girders Imperial Guard units were consistently driven back by the savage zeal of the Brotherhood troops in deadly close combats. The brave Arhites finally fell six days after Agmar s arrival, though in their last act of loyalty to the Emperor they destroyed the power generators they had held so diligently. The lurid fires lit by their melta bombs burned for days afterwards, casting a black pall of smoke across Lomas like a chilling shroud.

The war had reached a stalemate and ground down into an extended city-fight. Casualties spiralled upwards daily in dozens of skirmishes and ambushes fought through ruined apartment blocks, burned-out factories and mangled refineries. Predatory snipers lurked, ready to kill the unwary. Every doorway could conceal a booby trap or a hidden enemy. Entire Imperial Guard patrols disappeared without trace in the maelstrom of combat.

At the other cities the story was the same. The Brotherhood had the Planetary Defence armouries and the teeming populace to draw on for their soldiery, and they controlled the bulk of the planet's laser and missile silos. Siege and starvation would be necessary to drive them out.

Inquisitor Agmar led several small battle forces into Lomas to uncover more information about the Brotherhood. Piece by piece the picture of what had happened on Ichar IV became clear. He learned from prisoners about the ruling hierophants, heard their fanatical claims to be part of the magnificent "New Order" which would sweep through the galaxy. In a surprise raid he slew a Neophyte of the Brotherhood and saw what manner of creatures were leading this New Order. The divinations of the Imperial Tarot and Adeptus Telepathica psykers confirmed Inquisitor Agmar's worst fears. In utmost secrecy Inquisitor Agmar sent a report to the conclave of the Inquisition and awaited the arrival of the Space Marines.

ULTRAMARINES INVASION Thirty nine days after the outbreak of rebellion the Ultramarines battle barge Octavius entered Ichar's orbit and prepared to deploy its drop pods. Ichar IV's defences were still largely ineffective because of the damage inflicted on Lomas' s generatorium by the Arbites and drop casualties were light. Companies of Space Marines seized the main defence armouries and the governor's palace where the Brotherhood militia headquarters had been established. At first the Brotherhood was taken by complete surprise and the primary objectives were quickly secured. The Brotherhood militia launched a series of desperate counter attacks to dislodge the Space Marines but their forces were critically disorganised by the destruction of their HQ and they were beaten off with heavy losses.

Outside the city the Imperial Guard launched a major assault to link up with the Ultramarines. Fire and smoke leapt into the sky as artillery shells burst upon the city. Laser fire slashed back and forth as crouched figures scrambled from cover to cover. Heavy bolters flared through the murk, their shells kicking up erupting lines of dirt and rubble. The Imperial Guard doggedly advanced using their Leman Russ tanks as moving strongpoints and the Brotherhood's lines bent back before them.

At the height of the attack Inquisitor Agmar's specially-placed spy satellite picked up militia forces leaving the Brotherhood cathedral and moving up to contain the Imperial assault. The Inquisitor knew the time had now come when one hold stroke would end the rebellion. He sent a prearranged signal to the Octavius orbiting high above.

In the echoing nave of the cathedral a crackling blue haze appeared, brightened and then in a flash of azure light solidified into a number of hulking figures. The Brotherhood guards at the doors wheeled round in time to be ripped apart by a thunderous hail of explosive shells. More than twenty Space Marines in Terminator armour stood towering over their torn corpses in the sudden silence that followed. More guards, Neophytes and Acolytes suddenly poured into the cathedral through side doors as the Ultramarines Terminators spread out from their teleport point. A storm of lasbeams and autoshells rattled off the Terminators' thick armour plates to no avail: storm bolters were raised in gauntleted fists and the walls were painted with Brotherhood blood.

A handful of survivors hurled themselves into close combat with the giant warriors. Voluminous robes fell hack to reveal bone-ridged heads and glaring eyes when the Neophytes lashed out with their inhuman claws. Some of the Terminators were overwhelmed and dragged down by the supernatural ferocity of the mob but the roaring jet of a heavy flamer cut across the survivors before they could exploit their victory. Smoke and the stink of burned flesh billowed up to the high-arched roof from the funeral pyre.

The Terminators spread out with machine-like precision, some froze into overwatch positions while the others searched the cathedral for the hidden passages they knew it must contain. Their Librarian pointed to the altar and more explosive shells blasted it apart, revealing steps down into darkness.

Flipping on their suit lights the Terminators filed down the steps to find the black heart of the Brotherhood. A dismal crypt lay below, with many twisting passages spreading out from it in all directions hut the Librarian could sense the way through the labyrinth. The Terminators' scanners came to life as they left the crypt, showing multiple foes closing quickly on their location, creatures that moved too quickly to be human. The Terminators moved to the positions they would cover from overwatch and waited, ready to deal death at the slightest movement.

First came the distant clicking of claws on stone, then the thunder of the creatures' armoured bodies striking the walls and each other as they rushed forth to bring swift death to the intruders. The first of them sprang into the glare of the lights, its four deadly arms held high over its crouched body and bestial head. Genestealers! No doubt was left now, the Inquisitor was right: a viper's nest of aliens lay at the heart of the rebellion. Fangs and claws glittered as the Genestealers ran forward with insect-quickness to slay their hated foes. Storm bolters roared, sounding impossibly loud in the confined tunnels, explosive tipped bolts caromed from chitinous bodies or pierced them and blasted alien flesh to bloody pulp. The cleansing fires of flamers incinerated whole tunnels at a time but the creatures charged forward without fear or hesitation.

Each strobing flash of the storm bolters showed the foe getting closer. They swept over the bodies piled in front of the Ultramarines and tore into the Terminators. Three of the armoured giants were ripped apart in as many seconds before the rest fell back to the crypt. The Genestealers leapt after them without pause, easily catching the rearguards as they backed away still blasting. Who can say how many more of the aliens were blown apart or crushed by the Terminators' power fists before they were overrun? Not enough to stop the onrushing brood but enough to slow them while their brethren prepared to fight again. In the crypt flamers held side passages against flanking Genestealers and forced them to pour forth from one end of the room. The combined fire of a half-dozen storm bolters burst through the horde and, as the survivors leapt into cover behind great stone sarcophagi, the Librarian summoned a purifying column of warp fire. Unnatural flames filled the end of the crypt, hissing fires that ate through alien flesh as though it were fat and gristle instead of iron hard chitin and steely cartilage. Most of the brood burned in an instant, the rest fell to the explosive bolts which raged through their ranks like a miniature artillery barrage.

The Terminators moved on, cautiously now because they were few. No more of the nightmarish Genestealers barred their way or leapt from ambush as the Ultramarines pushed ever deeper into the heart of darkness. Deep beneath the city they found what they were seeking in a high-groined chamber with carved walls like the ribs of some great beast. There the Genestealer Patriarch crouched on a great dais, huge and bloated with the power of its sprawling brood. It squatted with arms outstretched, head turned upward as if listening for some distant call as the Ultramarines marched into the hall. They raised their weapons to destroy the abomination and it lowered its eyes to gaze on them with a threatening hiss.

Without warning a horde of monstrosities poured into the chamber from between the calcified ribs-walls. Three-armed hybrids, tainted humans and purestrain Genestealers leapt forward to protect their all-father. A wall of explosive bolts marched along the mob and the chamber dissolved into a scene of chaos and bloodshed as the howling fanatics hurled themselves on the Terminators. The Ultramarines Librarian cut his way forward through the creatures, the glowing white blade of his force axe leaving a trail of shorn limbs and lopped heads behind him. Each step became harder, as if he were wading through deeper and deeper water. He could feel the palpable psychic waves of alien thoughts beating against his mind as the Patriarch exerted its ancient, implacable will upon him. Deep pits opened in his subconscious, ready to swallow his psyche whole.

A shocking surge from the Librarian's psychic hood broke the spell. Focusing his own indomitable will, the Librarian forced his body out of the physical world for an instant, and in an instant he was gone. A bright flash marked his departure, another flared at his point of arrival as he teleported onto the dais with the Patriarch. The creature span round and lashed out its claws with incredible speed. Blood and sparks flew from the Librarian's armour as the claws ripped into it. The Patriarch easily ducked away from his clumsy backswing. The beast pounced again and rained a flurry of blows on the armoured figure which were almost too swift to follow.

In desperation the Librarian called to his battle brothers and the dais was swept by storm bolters. Indiscriminate fire ricocheted off the Librarian's armour but some shots struck and wounded the Patriarch. In its moment of distraction the Librarian swung his force axe in an irresistible arc which carved through the Patriarch's armoured hide with a flash of power. The force axe rose and fell, hacking the Patriarch into a bloody pulp and spraying purple ichor across the chamber.

With the death of its Patriarch the brood was thrown into confusion. In the chamber the handful of remaining Terminators slaughtered the mass of creatures assailing them. Nothing escaped the blasts of their storm bolters and the cleansing fires of their flamers as the Terminators exacted some small measure of revenge for the death of their forebears over two centuries before. In the city above the Brotherhood units resisting the Imperial Guard offensive collapsed. Small knots of fanatical Acolytes and Neophytes held out in towers and bunkers but triumphant Imperial Guard tanks swept through the rubble-strewn streets crushing all opposition.

Ichar IV was back under the iron heel of the Imperium within three weeks. All signs of the Genestealer infestation were thoroughly rooted out by the energetic Inquisitor Agmar with the assistance of the Ultramarines. Yet at the end of the campaign several mysteries remained unanswered. The first was what had become of the Magus, the human-seeming leader of the Brotherhood who had disappeared at the start of the rebellion. His body was never found and no prisoners were able to shed light on his whereabouts, even under Agmar's most persuasive questioning.

The second mystery was the reports of Astropaths and the Ultramarmnes Librarian who had slain the Patriarch. They told of sensing a faint psychic disturbance like a long, keening call or a signal radiating from the planet, a signal which had been cut off when the Patriarch was killed. The oldest and most powerful of the Astropaths had told the Inquisitor that he toc had sensed the Patriarch's call and that he had felt a distant shift in the warp. It was a sense of something vast and seething, a shadow of a monstrously powerful entity which had turned its attention to Ichar.

When Agmar submitted his report to the conclave of the Inquisition he was warned of a growing number of reports from survivors fleeing from the outer fringes. The information was garbled and contradictory but one fact stood out, the Tyranids had returned with a new hive fleet, Hive Fleet Kraken

TENDRILS OF THE KRAKEN This new Tyranid invasion had come without warning and no one could be sure how many planets had fallen to the Tyranid horde already. Hive Fleet Krakcn appeared to made up of many sub-fleets which moved to attack worlds across an entire sector simultaneously. The alarming disruption in the warp brought about by the hive fleet's passage had blocked out astropathic communication beyond the besieged systems and warp travel in their vicinity had become dangerously unpredictable. Whole sub-sectors of the Imperium had been swallowed up with almost no clues as to what had happened to them. The handfuls of survivors had fled aboard ships and been flung hundreds of light years off course by the turbulence in the warp. Their chilling accounts of the nightmare advance of the hive fleet formed the bulk of information available to the Imperium.

Tales came of skies turned black over whole continents by clouds of wind blown poison spores. Of hulking monsters that stalked the land, ripping and slashing with murderous claws. Stories of billions of creatures swarming across the face of a world, devouring everything in their path and leaving the planet a wasteland. Whole population centres had been subdued or wiped out in a single night, and those taken alive had envied the dead.

In the Miral system Imperial Guard regiments and Space Marines of the Scythes Chapter still held out against Tyranids which had overrun the lush jungles and plantations of Miral Prime. The Imperial Forces had retreated to a huge rock mesa known locally as the Giant's Coffin where they fought almost daily against raging hordes from the dense jungles below. The jungles themselves had become extraordinarily active since the invasion and only constant defoliation prevented vines and creepers engulfing the defenders' narrow island of rock overnight.

A free captain brought rumours of Lamarno, a feral planet which had come completely under the sway of Genestealers. When a Tyranid hive fleet arrived the fierce tribesmen had calmly boarded the bio-ships to be consumed by their new 'living gods'. He also brought a tale from the giant asteroid-monastery of Salem, telling of how the monks had chosen to poison themselves and their carefully built ecosystem rather than allow their sanctified flesh and bones to be consumed by the advancing Tyranids. Now Salem was nothing more than a gigantic tomb.

Another dedicated merchant captain helped evacuate millions from the mining worlds of Devlan before it was consumed. The extensive system of Sentinel space stations around Devlan delayed the hive fleet long enough for a fleet of giant freighters to escape into space. A company of the Lamenters Chapter of Space Marines held off frenzied attacks by the Tyranids until the last ship was loaded. Left surrounded and cut off, the Lamenters commended their souls to the Emperor and took a heavy toll of the invaders before they were finally overrun.

Yet there seemed to be no refuge even in flight. One giant ore ship fleeing from Devlan with its cargo of refugees arrived at its destination ominously dark and silent. No communication was forthcoming from the vessel and it made an automated landing far from habitation. Those investigating the ship found it to be a slaughterhouse of terror and death when they unsealed it. Men, women and children had been mercilessly butchered in their hundreds, perhaps thousands, it was impossible to tell. The Inquisition suspected a breach of quarantine protocol had allowed some Tyranid organism to get aboard, but nothing could be found, so what it it was and what became of it remained a mystery.

Orbital defences on Graia had held the hive fleet back for a time but the invaders had overrun Graia's single moon. Now every orbit brought a rain of mycetic spores on the planet below, each spore bearing its payload of doom and destruction. Explorators reported discovering a world deep in the Eastern Fringe which had been seeded with Hormagaunts during a Tyranid terror raid decades before. Swarms of the sickle-armed beasts had killed every living thing on the planet and now battled with each other in their unrelenting bloodlust. The Squats had reported attacks by a swarm of hive ships on isolated Homeworlds close to the galactic core, tens of thousands of light years away from the main hive fleet on the south-eastern rim of the galaxy.

Inquisitor Czevak reported that the Eldar craftworld of Iyanden had been subjected to a series of massive Tyranid attacks. The once mighty craftworld had fought off swarm after swarm of attacking hive ships but in doing so its space fleet had been virtually destroyed. Several swarms of Tyranids had reached the craftworld itself and fighting had raged throughout its slender Wraithhone towers and magnificent crystal domes. Now most of the craftworld lay in ruins and four fifths of its people were left dead or dying, a terrible blow to the dwindling Eldar race.

TOTAL WAR The Adeptus Terra was sufficiently shaken by the news from the Ultima Segmentum to convene the High Lords of Terra. Their conclusion was rapid and succinct: the vast inroads of the Tyranids into the Imperium must be stopped at all costs, the Tyranid race must be investigated and, if possible, utterly extenninated. The Imperial Tarot predicted a time of coming darkness unmatched since the darkest hours of the Horus Heresy: the Devourer of Worlds grappled with the human galaxy and thus far it had shown only the first hints of its true strength. At the command of the High Lords the huge military juggernaut of the Imperium's armed forces turned its face to the Ultima Segmentum and readied itself for total war.

The forge worlds of the Adeptus Mechanicus produce tanks, weapons and war machines by tens of thousands. The ship yards at Bakka and Terra work night and day to build battlecruisers and warcraft to stem the tide of the Tyranid hive fleets. Millions of Imperial Guardsmen prepare to embark on a war for humanity's very survival. To the Imperium war is a religion, a crusade against the forces of darkness which wait in the shadows to enslave mankind. The Tyranids are the ultimate blasphemy, a race of creatures that brings not mere enslavement but utter extinction.

New and deadly Tyranid weapons and creatures are being reported all the time: long-ranged acidic projectiles which melt through steel like wax, creatures which attack with bolts of psychic energy or electro-static blasts, gigantic beasts as tall as Titans. The regularity of Tyranid attacks is increasing and no adequate defence has yet been discovered.

Several hundred large inhabited worlds have fallen to the Tyranids. Two entire Space Marine Chapters based on the Eastern Fringe, the Scythes of the Emperor and the Lamenters, have been all but destroyed with little more than a company of Space Marines surviving the Tyranid onslaught.

The fight has not been entirely in vain. In a number of systems Space Marines have boarded Tyranid ships while they were still dormant after exiting the warp. These boarding parties entered the pulsing vitals of the immense alien craft, gathering information about the Tyranids and destroying thousands of creatures while they lay frozen in hibernation. The information gathered by these brave Space Marines has proved vital to the Imperium' s search for a way to defeat the Tyranid menace.

The Techno Magi have concluded that the Tyranids originate outside the galaxy. Their voracious genetic structure and biological existence are different from even the most alien creatures of our own galaxy. Whereas human and other galactic organisms naturally diversify into distinct species over the course of millions of years, Tyranids evolve rapidly and constantly to meet the conscious needs of the entire race. The Tyranids are not one creature but a bewildering array of monstrosities created to perform specific functions. Hence Tyranids vary in size from the huge organic spacecraft of the hive fleets to tiny functionary creatures such as the beetle-sized scataphagoids which cleanse and recycle organic waste in the respiratory vents of the bin-ships.

The conscious mutability of the Tyranids means they have never needed to develop more conventional technologies like those used by Man. For example, much of the Tyranids' weaponry is created from symbiote creatures which have been adapted and combined to fire voracious living shells or generate deadly energies. These artefacts have probably not even been consciously designed by the Tyranids, rather they design themselves in response to the requirements of the hive mind, genetically adapting to their tasks from the moment of inception. As time passes generations of the weapon symbiotes constantly change and evolve to become lighter, more efficient and deadlier against the Tyranid's foes.

The hive mind appears to require a constant influx of fresh genetic material and new DNA to create new creatures and adapt to different environments. The Adeptus Mechanicus postulate that the Tyranids exhausted their own galaxy and, perhaps, others of all life before crossing the interstellar void to seek fresh feeding grounds. With its billions of humans and countless other creatures the Imperium offers the Tyranids an inexhaustible stock of organic matter and genetic codes to invigorate the hive mind and enable it to manifest new forms. The Tyranids represent the nightmare pinnacle of evolution gone mad, a ravening super-predator of stellar dimensions which will make all other life forms extinct if it cannot be stopped.

The use of Games Workshop material in the form of reproduced text from archived (my own) White Dwarf magazines and Codices is without specific permission. No challenge to Games Workshop's copyright status is intended.

However, i will remove it if it is against the Relic threads regulations.

[MusedMark]

If the above is too long, i can link to it. Please let me know mods.

[Astral2643]

lol - Ok so theres plently of info there...

[MusedMark]

Ive checked relentlessly, but im unable to find a piture of a Norn Queen on the net :(

[ZoopahFex]

wow, im gonna print that out, and read before i go to bed, hehe

[Richtofen]

and the longest post ever award goes to.....

[Astral2643]

There isnt a model or picture of the Norn Queen as far as I can tell - apparantly because the Queen is part of the Hive Ship, so it wouldnt be able to get to the battlefield without bringing the whole ship to. So instead of modelling the Norn Queen, you would do the Hive Ship....

[Richtofen]

....which would be in orbit.

[Astral2643]

Exactly, so nobody needs to model a Norn Queen, so no pic is required

[MusedMark]

Good point.

[Dockham]

This is exciting!

[Lord Azrael]

Could be interesting to have Tyranids start the game with a chapel. The Chapel being a Genestealer Cult. For the starting units you have cultists and Zealots. The Cultists are the initial builders. Zealots are the basic fighter/scouts. (Not terribly good)
Cultists can make listening posts, some basic defences, and power spires. Tyranids could be semi reliant on "power" to unlock units, similar to how orcs are for population. After a power spire or so is put down and you get like 50 power (random number) then the cultists can make a landing site. Once it finishes, an actual tyranid building (Or whatever) lands and occupies the spot. From there you can upgrade it etc, and make Tyranid units. The suggestion someone made earlier of things being built from one centeral mass sounded sorta cool. So the Tyranid building would act like a builder unit itself in a way. (New "sections" would be really vulnerable as they are built tho)

Anyway, after so and so upgrades etc, you gain the abilty to upgrade your Zealots into full Genestealers. (similar to buying force blades for the Seer Council) Or maybe just have them be built from the chapel.

Dunno if the newer fluff has them using the genestealer cults as much though.
On the other hand, a Genestealer Cult faction could be pretty interesting as well. They could follow the path of a more normal army even. (Can't imagine it would be that hard to tweak the Chaos army into being a Genestealer cult)

[Warcrier]

This has been said b4, the Nid mod would be better if it focused more on the nids and not so much on Genestaler cults...

[MusedMark]

This has been said b4, the Nid mod would be better if it focused more on the nids and not so much on Genestaler cults...

Yes, but a Cultist army would be easier to implement and create because it would require less of a conversion.
And the nids usually infest planets and use cultists to cause dismay, before the impending invasions.

Cultists - Main infantry
Cultists/Genestealer half breeds - Assault Infantry
Purestrain Genestealers - Elite HTH infantry
Patriarch - Psycher/Leader

Tanks could be maybe Leman Russ (easily obtained by the cultists)
And basically any tank the imperial guard may use.

[Warcrier]

Well i think people just really want see their favorite Nids played out on the field in al their digital glory for once, Genestealer cults are nice, but its the pure Nid army that looks the coolest and is the better of the two

[MusedMark]

I agree, my post that started this thread was all about a "proper" nid mod.
Id love to recreate the invasion of the Ultramarines home world.
Or the Hive Fleet Krakens assualt on the Eldar.
Etc

[Richtofen]

...Or an Ordo Xenos mod with remote controlled termagants?

[Astral2643]

A Genestealer Cult might end up be too much like chaos, but a proper Tyranid swarm would be a completely new army and would require a totally new set of tactics...

[Dockham]

Ideed it would, I think that just Tyranids would be cool. I dont think it would hurt to make up some sort of new tyranid to work as a builder.

[Biber_Alpha]

Ideed it would, I think that just Tyranids would be cool. I dont think it would hurt to make up some sort of new tyranid to work as a builder.

Ok... and what does he build?
"Ah, lets have a look at the blueprint... yes... the bone has to be fixed with THAT Muscle, not that nerve."

EDIT:
I say it again: Tyranids doesnt build something, their LIVING building grow!

[Dockham]

Ok you could do something like they did in SC where you have a builder and he morphs.

[MusedMark]

I have to admit, im with Biber_Alpha on this one...
:)

[Biber_Alpha]

Hm... that would be ok. But i think if the buildings grow themself would fit much better.

Like a plant or something.

[Astral2643]

You could make it so that the HQ can build all the buildings. It would sorta send a 'root' out and make the building seem as though it were part of it, connected by the 'root'. For listening posts the base could still build them, but instead of the root idea, it would be a giant tentacle thing comin straight out the ground?

[Skum]

My personal opinion would be to keep it as close to the other races as possible, for ease of balancing and to not make it too obscure. Look at the problems people have dealing with the Ork Waaagh! for instance :)

Some thoughts on Army composition here (http://just-testing.useofweapons.net/dow/tyranids.html).

I'd write more on that but it's bedtime for me, I'll follow it up in the morning.

[Magus]

Quick warning for that guy who posted the uberhuge Tyranid thingy: If thats copyrighted material (I assume it is), I'd advise taking it down quickly.

[Astral2643]

The thing is, Tyranids arent like other armies - where Space Marines would have a couple of squads of guys, a commander and maybe a tank, Tyranids would just have a mass of little clawing things, and a couple of bigger clawing things. To make them like the other races would change the idea of the Tyranid swarm. Having a builder unit and going around building things would sorta change the focus from overrunning your enemy, to more like the other races, which have a different strategy...

[Biber_Alpha]

@Magus:
What? Do you mean my link to the Forgeworld online shop? You mean i have to remove this one?
A link to an online shop??

EDIT:
Its removed.

[Skum]

Having a builder unit and going around building things would sorta change the focus from overrunning your enemy, to more like the other races, which have a different strategy...

I'm sure you can tie in unit production to population size, like the Orks. I'm just suggesting it wouldn't be a particularly good idea to stray too far from template laid out in the other races. Otherwise balancing will be nigh impossible. I appreciate that everyone has great ideas on how they'd like to see a Tyranid army be like, but I'd rather have one ingame that's fairly well balanced and fits the game rather than an over-ambitious one that'd never get finished or played against! :)

I genuinely believe you have to have buildings like every other race. Don't forget they've got to be able to play each scenario (Destroy HQ, Take and Hold, etc), and above all don't forget what it'd be like to play _against_ this army, not just play with it.

[MusedMark]

Quick warning for that guy who posted the uberhuge Tyranid thingy: If thats copyrighted material (I assume it is), I'd advise taking it down quickly.

The use of Games Workshop material in the form of reproduced text from archived (my own) White Dwarf magazines and Codices is without specific permission. No challenge to Games Workshop's copyright status is intended.

However, i will remove it if it is against the Relic threads regulations.

I only put it one to give people an idea of how the Hive works.

Stay Happy
:)

[ZoopahFex]

Hmm, the expanding HQ could work ... One main building (probably with a Norn Queen inside) that expands into more sections.

Synaptic creatures could probably be able to spawn the Listening Posts, as there wouldnt be a real builder around. Though, there is one problem about Synapse, and thats that either the basic unit needs to be synapse-independant, or a synaptic creature must be available from the start.

The listening posts could be capable of expanding, the same way the HQ does, so you cán build more then one base, but with more limitations.

So this way, nid bases dont differ much from any other, tho it is unique.

Little update on my Hive Tyrant, still working on the limbs:

http://members.lycos.nl/zoop1984/HiveTyrantRender01.jpg

[MusedMark]

Thats looking good, what software do you use for modelling?

[ZoopahFex]

3d studio max 6 (yes, legally)

[MusedMark]

3d studio max 6 (yes, legally)

Would you say its "industry standard"?

[Astral2643]

That is a NICE model... how long have you been working on it for?

[Moz3ltov]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoopahFex
3d studio max 6 (yes, legally)


Would you say its "industry standard"?
that is industry standard(usually)

[ZoopahFex]

got no clue what you are talking about :argh:

been working on this model for about say, 4 hours

[ZzGashi]

good model but may be replace the devorer with a venom cannon instead :)

[ZoopahFex]

replace? why that? I just model all the weapons, duh

[IllustriusChen]

Have any of you tried Pm'ing Wazz. He started a Tyranid mod.

He's made a cool looking Gaunt but hasn't upated it for a while now.

That Hive Tyrant appears slightly odd, I think his heads slightly to large.

I know that it has a huge head but it still seems a little out of proportion.

[Thaatu]

Looking good, sounding good, feeling good.

But are you going to make unit sounds?

[Astral2643]

They're just supposed to hiss alot, according to the codex.

[ZoopahFex]

I know that it has a huge head but it still seems a little out of proportion.

well it isnt finished yet, is it? ;)

[MusedMark]

I'm sure you can tie in unit production to population size, like the Orks. I'm just suggesting it wouldn't be a particularly good idea to stray too far from template laid out in the other races. Otherwise balancing will be nigh impossible. I appreciate that everyone has great ideas on how they'd like to see a Tyranid army be like, but I'd rather have one ingame that's fairly well balanced and fits the game rather than an over-ambitious one that'd never get finished or played against! :)

I genuinely believe you have to have buildings like every other race. Don't forget they've got to be able to play each scenario (Destroy HQ, Take and Hold, etc), and above all don't forget what it'd be like to play _against_ this army, not just play with it.

Maybe the nid bases could be modelled similar to the Night Elves (i think thats what they were called) from Warcraft 3.
I.e, living, moving buildings that can be "up-rooted" and moved about and have basic self defence features...

Just a thought.

[Astral2643]

How would the control area work? In WC3 there is no control area, so would it just not affect Tyranids, or would you build the building, move it, but not be able to put it down again (letting you build stuff from it) untill its back in your control area? This is a pretty good idea i think...

[MusedMark]

Im thinking, you would only need to move the building if your under attack (i know this may give the nids and unfair advantage, but, did it give the Night Elves and unfair advantage?).
You wouldnt be able to build from the buildings if they are "moving" and they could only be put down if they are in the proximity of the main building.
They would only have the most basic defence mechanisms (apart from "turret" and "listening post" type buildings which would be on par with other races but the listening posts would be unable to move) but would be resilient enough to withstand the same kind of punishment other races buildings can.
The idea needs a bit of development i guess, but i think it would solve the "nid base crisis"

**UPDATE**

When the nid buildings are "up-rooted" no resources are collected.

[Mega-Pimp]

Maybe Nid buildings should have less P and armour but regenerate faster?
Fits with the "alive" feeling, same might be said about the units...

[MusedMark]

Maybe Nid buildings should have less P and armour but regenerate faster?
Fits with the "alive" feeling, same might be said about the units...

Good idea for the buildings, but remember, Nids are HTH specialists and if a sqaud of nids charges a decent sqaud of marines or whatever they will get shot to pieces, so maybe keep their armour up?
:)

[Richtofen]

good model but may be replace the devorer with a venom cannon instead

Except its a death spitter/barbed strangler (very similar looking weapons).

I'd use the forgeworld hive tyrant for a base.

Double Post


sqaud of marines or whatever they will get shot to pieces, so maybe keep their armour up?


They ARE meant to get shot to pieces :).
But for every 1 that dies 2 spring into its place. So nids would be the race most stretching how many units your comp can handle:)

[MusedMark]

They ARE meant to get shot to pieces :).
But for every 1 that dies 2 spring into its place. So nids would be the race most stretching how many units your comp can handle:)
This is true
Thank the blood god my machine should be able to cope lol

[Richtofen]

That could be a strategy, massing as many units as you can to slow down your opponents computer :)

[MusedMark]

That could be a strategy, massing as many units as you can to slow down your opponents computer :)
A very good idea.........
Nid denial of service attacks.
Gotta love em
:)

[Astral2643]

The big h2h nids should have a modified version of the squiggoths rampage ability. I can just see a squad of marines being smashed by a Carnifex rampaging through them...

Also, maybe the little nids like the gaunts should have a 'horde' bonus, like in CnC generals - If they're in a squad of more than 10 or so, they do more damage and run faster?

[Richtofen]

A very good idea.........
Nid denial of service attacks.
Gotta love em


True, then we could have "quick tech to cable" and the "fast teching to 2 gigs of RAM" strategies which would GREATLY improve gameplay.

[MusedMark]

I can see the excuses now "you only won cos you set all your details to "low" and turned shadows off" :)

[Le_Poisson]

Hi all -

My first post on these forums, so take it easy on me :D

Anyways, forgive me for not reading through all of the post, I got to the end of page 4 and hadn't seen anything suggested like this yet, so I decided I might as well do it. If I'm repeating an earlier post suggestion feel free to yell at me.

Now, on to the suggestion.

I would suggest that for the tyranids they have buildings like other races. But, they work in the form of spores/drop pods (depending upon terminology used). Quite often Tyranids will seed a planet with a forward force before moving in and even afterward will continue to move "people" down via their spores or pods.

What I'm trying to get at is that I would suggest having a "drop pod" of sorts that produces each type of unit. Genestealers and warriors along with other elite infantry get their own. Basic troops get their own. And same with heavy units. Now, the HQ might be a norn queen or other similar heavy unit. What would be even cooler is if the Tyranids actually got a mobile HQ unit in addition to their "hero" (hive tyrant...). The mobile HQ could indeed be the norn queen! But it should be made that somehow you could get another norn queen. (I'm not sure what you could use for upgrades. I might also suggest that upgrades be in the form of stuff at the HQ, vs an independent building. And/or the unit upgrades are done at their buildings, as it isn't very characteristic for there just to be like a 1 off spore producer sitting around (which is what I would use if you NEED a building for upgrades)).

Another suggestion is that Genestealers function both as elite infantry AND builder units. This is because they are the vanguard and have the link to the hive mind that allows them to call the other units and "buildings" (in this case) in.

Hope my suggestion makes some sense to you guys! If you need anything exlpained out don't hesitate to ask.

[MusedMark]

I would suggest that for the tyranids they have buildings like other races. But, they work in the form of spores/drop pods (depending upon terminology used). Quite often Tyranids will seed a planet with a forward force before moving in and even afterward will continue to move "people" down via their spores or pods.

What I'm trying to get at is that I would suggest having a "drop pod" of sorts that produces each type of unit. Genestealers and warriors along with other elite infantry get their own. Basic troops get their own. And same with heavy units. Now, the HQ might be a norn queen or other similar heavy unit. What would be even cooler is if the Tyranids actually got a mobile HQ unit in addition to their "hero" (hive tyrant...). The mobile HQ could indeed be the norn queen! But it should be made that somehow you could get another norn queen. (I'm not sure what you could use for upgrades. I might also suggest that upgrades be in the form of stuff at the HQ, vs an independent building. And/or the unit upgrades are done at their buildings, as it isn't very characteristic for there just to be like a 1 off spore producer sitting around (which is what I would use if you NEED a building for upgrades)).

This has already been mentioned, but is a good idea in my opinion. (its in the first post, but it doesnt mention the norn queen, that was mentioned later on).
:)


Another suggestion is that Genestealers function both as elite infantry AND builder units. This is because they are the vanguard and have the link to the hive mind that allows them to call the other units and "buildings" (in this case) in.

A good idea

[ZzGashi]

why are so many people coming up with genestealers being builder units the rippers are a better choice becuase they would be like the grots where u can use them as both destraction and building units. with the norn queen and dominatrix there is no pictures of them just the main nids that u see in the codex and in the "big rule book." may be the best way to do nid buildings is by using zerg building from starcraft and modifiy them.

Edit: gargoyles = "jumping" unit and can deep strike :D

[Le_Poisson]

But...Rippers don't even fit in with the fluff as builder units!

[Lord Dante]

I like the idea of 'spores' which are lakin to drop pods being used to drop in buildings.

as for the builder unit a Nid/hybrid-human would be simple enough. or even hormogant swarms. basic warriors/builders. like gretchin for orks.

[ZzGashi]

But...Rippers don't even fit in with the fluff as builder units!

so Whats your point? i don't think in the fluff servitors,heratics, grots, or bonesingers build. so yeah

[Biber_Alpha]

Servitors are builder! Why not? the are working on machines, Weapons an such. Why they cant build up an instant outpost?

Bonesingers build. That is what they are! They sing tanks, weapons and other things.

Grots.. hm... ok... maybe not.

But Tyranid Buildings are LIVING!! Nobody build them! How they could be built? Can anyone tell me nearly understandable how a living building could be built?
So, let the damn idea with builder units in a Tyranid army! That is ridiculous!

[Sarcastic Jedi]

Here's an idea, if a group of nids lose connection to the hive mind (tyrant for example) they suffer great morale loss.

[Greeny]

Servitors are builder! Why not? the are working on machines, Weapons an such. Why they cant build up an instant outpost?

Bonesingers build. That is what they are! They sing tanks, weapons and other things.

Grots.. hm... ok... maybe not.

But Tyranid Buildings are LIVING!! Nobody build them! How they could be built? Can anyone tell me nearly understandable how a living building could be built?
So, let the damn idea with builder units in a Tyranid army! That is ridiculous!


Fair enough, they don't "build" they grow their structures.

[ZzGashi]

the rippers can grow into the nid structures. Genestealer/hybrids are not good ideas in my opinion

[Rhyos]

I think that the solution to this problem is both simple and complex. It says in the codec that there are various synapse creatures that have a link to the hive mind. As each starts out with a building, perhaps you could have an immobile synapse creature to act as an HQ. That, or some sort of synapse bundle tower thingie. Seeing as how a lot of units and structures in this game literally fall from the sky, the same could be done with the synapse creature. The synapse creature sends a message to the hive fleet, and a big seed or something falls from the sky and embeds itself in the ground. It then slowly grows into the full building.

It could also be possible to make a member of a 'Nid squad into a synapse creature in the way that Marines can make a Sergeant. These synapse creatures can call in buildings for listening posts, turrets, etc.

[specineff]

rippers from my old skool understanding collect genetic material and are then 'melted down' of their own free will so that larger creatures can absorb the genetic material.

in which case, rippers would make a whole lot of sense. replace the chaos black patch on the floor that you get before building and make it ooze, have the ripper enter it, die, and the building slowly grows itself.

this works well as

a) its plausable with the fluff
b)means that no units are actually having to stand next to the structure and build it, fitting into the 'grow' ideal.

[stryer]

http://scoullos.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/rs3.jpg

http://scoullos.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/rs1.jpg

http://scoullos.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/rs2.jpg


Inspired by Zoopahfex and his awsome Hive Tyrant o' Doom (tm).

http://members.lycos.nl/zoop1984/HiveTyrantRender01.jpg


I thought I would start at the bottom and work my way up - so first the ripper, next...Rippers with biomorphs (just in case).

This is my first actual 3d model ever to get this far, I cant believe I actually was successful in UV mapping and texturing. :D

Each Ripper weighs in at 650 triangles, meaning that i could only have 3 per unit to fit within the 2000 poly per unit cap. Ideally there would be 5 per unit, but considering my original ripper was 3250 triangles, I think I did really well optimising it.

My skinning skills are not really up to scratch, so would anyone be interesting in downloading the .3ds and .bmp for the ripper, and posting finished skins on a separate thread?

BTW: Has anyone any idea as to how the army painter works... I wonder as I will definitely have to change the texture map to comply.

I've yet to bone and X-Link the model for animation, as i'm not sure how this is going to work in DOW.

One last thing --> Fingers crossed for Alpha maps in DOW, otherwise the teeth will look funky!


Styrer (Usually Stryer...but what's in a name!)

[Mega-Pimp]

Really nice man!
Not so bad idea for "building" either.

[specineff]

VERY nice. now were talking.

and i know its a good idea, i thought of it.

[Skum]

So, let the damn idea with builder units in a Tyranid army! That is ridiculous!

Groan.

Ok, how about a swarm of yet-to-be-identified little critters that help meld things together to create a living structure... or some such nonsense.

Look, the Codex isnt the be-all and end-all, the Tyranids are supposed to create whatever suits their purpose. I'm sure they could come up a creature that acts just like a defensive turret, or a listening post, etc etc.

Don't get so hung up on your ideas, try and think what would fit in the context of the game while remaining true to the fluff of the Tyranid army. I've read plenty of stuff that suggests the 'nids often build structures to suit their purpose. There's even mention of a "repair" creature, a batlike thing that swarms over damaged structures and repairs them with its own flesh.

I like Specineff's idea.

[MusedMark]

Groan.

Ok, how about a swarm of yet-to-be-identified little critters that help meld things together to create a living structure... or some such nonsense.

Look, the Codex isnt the be-all and end-all, the Tyranids are supposed to create whatever suits their purpose. I'm sure they could come up a creature that acts just like a defensive turret, or a listening post, etc etc.

Don't get so hung up on your ideas, try and think what would fit in the context of the game while remaining true to the fluff of the Tyranid army. I've read plenty of stuff that suggests the 'nids often build structures to suit their purpose. There's even mention of a "repair" creature, a batlike thing that swarms over damaged structures and repairs them with its own flesh.

I like Specineff's idea.

Good point, im pretty sure thet Heretics are not the back bone of the Chaos construction force. So i dont see why the nids cant have a unit developed for this purpose.

After all, this is a game in its own right, not a word for word, stat for stat Codex translation.
:)

[PhoenixLord]

this is just an idea of howyou can have structures built:

1. Mycetic spore is dropped down from hiveship
2. Little tyranid builders eat away out side of spore revealing structure.

Here are some ideas for nid structures-click me!!!! (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/QUATERMASTERS_STORE_WARHAMMER_40K_TERRAIN_7.html)-it has some nid things

[thesilent1]

I think I have the perfect idea to create buildings, and yes it involves ripper swarms. Now the main huge building that you will start out with could be this big mutated tunnel entrance with all sorts of creepy tentacles etc. The the most important item about the entrance is a spawn pool of some sort. Now, in the Nid Codex, it does say that ripper swarms do jump into these pools and die to give back the nutrients too the hive mind for new creatures etc. In the game, ripper swarms should be really cheap and can be reinforced for free like grots, but they reinforce faster. To make a building, you would have to have a certain amount of ripper swarms to create it. Then once you click where to place the building, the rippers jump into the spawn pool thing, and the building will slowly be created. The building is created by this tentacle (or something else) that slowly extends from the hive tunnel, and at the end of the tentacle, the building will begin to grow. For upgrading the hive tunnel, the spawn pool should increase (to show the number of rippers it needs to make a building). Also, the upgrade can have players make even more rippers, and reinforce them faster.

*trying to catch breath*

This does sound like a crazy plan, but it might work if it is tweaked a little bit. All together, it does make the nids feel like they are "morphing the planet."

[stryer]

OK, so I have realised that while the various discussions rage about how best to impliment the tyranids as a viable DOW force, one constant holds true:

We will need appropriate models, no matter how buildings are produced or what troop types make it / dont make it into the build.

This said, I will continue to showcase various tyranid components, troops, biomorphs and other 3d and 2d media that will eventually be required.

I would like to ask anyone else out there who feels up to it to do the same; the more content we prepare for this mod, the better.

Any media I personally create will be made freely available to anyone who is willing to work on a tyranid mod

So... without further ado, on to the content:

http://scoullos.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/TyrWing.jpg

These are a set of tyranid wings (based off the wings found on the tyranid gargoyle section of the Games Workshop Online Store).

Im using the orange and flesh colour scheme for my display models, but using a set of layered texture files, I will be able to colour them in any way that is required - hopefully this will make the content already created compatable with the army painter conventions.

From this point on, I intend to stop making individual parts for the rippers and instead work on making as many modualr parts fo the tyranid broods as possible. In this way, a set of workable placeholder models will be quickly available for use for mod authors -until better models and work comes out (just look as strangefate, you will see what I mean :D ).

Next on the menu will be a set of tyranid gaunt arms with scythng talons and rending claws - the claws and talons will be separate meshes, making one set of arms able to produce two or more different meshes with the minimum of fuss.


until my next post...

Styrer (should be Stryer...but the typo has stuck!)


PS: Comments appreciated

[TyranidWarlord]

Rippers ARE the builders of the Tyranids, they are listed in the codex as builders (I think...) and as for the synapese creatures thats a great idea, you could have the synapese node as a seargent creature (just like bio mods in the TT game) and speaking of bio mods, you could make devourers etc as options, like normal marines have heavy bolters and stuff. Sorry if im just recycling old ideas by the way

[ZoopahFex]

http://members.lycos.nl/zoop1984/Chimney.jpg

Spore Chimney thingie

[Astral2643]

There's certainly plenty of modelling support for a Tyranid mod...

[sparky]

What you could for building is do some type of growth thingy... Like drop something in... and it grows itself... suits me :)

[ZoopahFex]

sounds cool yeah, like a pod being dropped with some sort of creature inside that grows into a building ...

But then, whos gonna call those pods?

Maybe you could drop the pods anywhere near the HQ, without the builder?

[sparky]

Yeah have like a spawn base or something and that allows things to drop in... It doesnt have to fit in with the 40k... who says tyranids dont have bases?

[Warcrier]

I think it would be a good idea to use the rippers as a basis for building.
Check this out
So you want to build a building, (perhaps a spawing pool of sorts for Gaunts)...
So you select a number of rippers to become the building...
ie the more irppers you put into building the building the faster it is built and the more helth it starts off with, they could be massed cheap untis that would be expendable...
Just my idea

[stryer]

WarCrier, love the idea :D

This is exactly what I had in mind too.


Anyway, back to the models:

http://scoullos.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/gaunthead.jpg

Hopefully this head will form the basis for a hormagaunt, termagant, gargoyle and even tyranid warrior / tyrant guard (with a few additions)

ZoopahFex, love the chimney, any chance of spire and nodal points later?

Styrer / Stryer

[IllustriusChen]

Why does it have a nose?

Never seen a Tyranid with a nose.

With the nose it looks like Dyns avatar.

[stryer]

Hmm, maybe the top lip is a bit too prominent and needs to be toned down.

I'll fix it when i make the gargoyle crest, tyranid crest and lictor tentecles <sp>

Styrer

[Abyss]

this was supposed to be in this thread i couldn'y find it so i made a new and it was a dumb idea so here's wat i wrote

Here's in idea:

The main building be a....(Hive,Trygon,Domitrix?) that was mutated tat some genes of the norn queen was extracted into the creature to create a hive. Then it would slowy create biomass, so first buildings should be able to attack units upclose,Sporemines should slowly develope around the hive, instead of having builders you start with a Warrior that has a raidus to comand underlings. the hive grows buildings instead of having workers.

[specineff]

i think we need to get the basic models first. so far im very impressed with all of this. very nice styrer. are you taking appart the actual models as examples? id sugest you go to a games workshop and/or a friends, borrow a single unit of every type, take a knife to them, and go real slow on detail. seems to be the DOW game itself has amazing models, and the comunitys going to be hard pressed to keep up (though so far i think weve done amazingly well).

btw the tongue needs to be a tad more flexable :p. im guessing its possible to animate it like that, which should be very sweet. orcs flow very well when standing still and seem very organic, while marines and eldar not so. with nids i think they need to really look unfomftable. they will be the hardest race to animate as no ones seen a nid move. for example, how does a genestealer run? we've all seen the model but to me their legs would have to really stretch out, and their arms flailing like crazy.

its all so complicated :'(

[Abyss]

Tyranids should have a special ability to allow them to sneak attack in enemy or ambush them :D

[Dockham]

Those models are looking great especially the Rippers and Gaunt heads!

[stryer]

Specineff, I actually own a tyranid army (pics to be posted soon) and am using them as a source for the models. as for cutting them up...DUDE!
:argh:

I'll post some wireframes of the models soon, so you cann see where they deform. the tounge is actually 3 segments, allowing it to bend and curl when boned and rigged for animation.

as for animation, I guess we would need to animate them according to their troop type and based off the natural world.

ie:
hormagaunts = big cat / Cheetah?

termagants = big cat / stalking behaviour

genestealer = Alien (from the films, of course

etc...


styrer

[MusedMark]

Keep up the good work!

[ZzGashi]

ie:
hormagaunts = big cat / Cheetah?

termagants = big cat / stalking behaviour

genestealer = Alien (from the films, of course

etc...

as long as the genestealer doesn't crawl

[Kharneth]

First let's look at a couple of facts about Nids.

*All Nids ultimately originate from Norn Queens who reside in a Hive Ship and never leave the ship.
*Norn Queens create Tyranids using DNA extracted from corpses and live specimens fed to them by creatures called Coffin Crawlers.
*A Tyranid Army/Swarm is created once a Hive Fleet approaches a Planet and is deployed to the surface via Myceptic Spores to collect Bio Matter and expunge any resistance. And once the Swarm has accomplished it's task, it is reabsorbed into the Tyranid Genepool.
*The only two Tyranid "Buildings"/structures named (or at least AFAIK) are Spore Chimneys and Capilluary Towers.
-Spore Chimneys mutate/"Nid-ify" the surrounding enviorment and help begin the breaking down process.
-Capilluary Towers are linked to by the Hive Ships and used to extract energy and resources.

My Suggestions for the Tyranid Base Building:
*For builders, use some kind of "builder bug" or Coffin Crawlers (Something has to build the Chimneys and Towers).
*Use Spore Chimneys as a Combination of Listening Post and HQ Building. This way you can say the Nid Area of Control is the area covered by the Spores.
*Use Capilluary Towers in place of Power Generators.
*The way you could handle Nid "Recruiting" and "Research" is by saying that to access certain Nids you have to not only have enough Requisition and Energy Points, but also a certain number of Spore Chimneys (to represent the increasing number of Nids as the Swarm covers more area).
*Once you have the requirements needed to recruit a type of Nid, you click on the Spore Chimney which will have buttons for the Available Nids which can be called down to the surface in Myceptic Spores.
*An alternative to using the Spore Chimney as the HQ Building, I guess you might could have some kind of Large Hive Node or something like that. But that doesn't seem to fit Nid fluff very well.

Well that's all the input I can come up with for Nid Base Building. Now I just hope it's understandable. Man I wish I knew where my 2nd Ed Nid Codex was...

[ZoopahFex]

some nice modelling goin on here :) i guess ill just focus on making "buildings" if there are any concept artists around here, who could draw some concepts for buildings, id happily model them.

anyway, i got a full job now, so i cant contribute as much as i did before

nids rule :)

[stryer]

As i am inherently lazy, I really dont see myself modelling every single individual troop type unless I can reduce the amount of unique modelling, UVW mapping and texturing as I am about to return to school to teach science for another year. if im not caeeful, all my time will go down the :sink:

This being said, i am using a modular design process where I will model discreet sections of tyraniids and copy them over to make new permutations of the basic tyranid build model, in a similar way to how the tyranid plastic sprues are multipart and 'swappable'.

Below is an image of how I intend to achieve this, usng the basic termagant head previously completed (now with improved lip reductive surgery - especially for IllustriusChen -which fixes the bizarre nose problem)

http://scoullos.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/tyranidheads.jpg

:here: This also includes polycounts for each head.

The only heads I have left to do are the following:

Hive Tyrant - Which will need a new crest and individually modelled teeth, as well as unique implant attack (watch AVP for an example - she nearly gets her nose off! :D ). I may include drool and spittle as well, but only if anyone can confirm animatable textures are possible.

Zoanthrope - not sure about this. Obviously, the head is that of the tyranid warrior with an enlarged rear cranium case (for the eldar-DNA brain) and impressive bone crest (ala eldar wraithlord -although how GW thinks they can use this crest to imply genetic relation to the eldar - when the wraithlord has no more a direct genetic link to the eldar as my toaster does with me! -i'll never know...). I'm tempted to remodel this entirely - using the ripper torso section as a base for the atrophied body.

Ravener - IMHO, at present these heads are almost as bad as that of the Tyrant Guard, although the bisegmented lower jaw is a bit of a saving grace. I am informed that these will be recieving a remodel to bring them in line with the Red Terror, a much more dangerous looking creature. I will wait and see regarding this, but I beleive that making them similar to the Red Terror is the way for me to go, which will require a distinct mesh. Any comments?


Genestealer - These have allready been redone, and I am told the heads closely resemble the termagants that the previous 'stealers do. If this turns out to be true, I will use the termagant head as a base, reduce the size of the bone ridges along the top, add an ovipoositor tongue-tube insetead of the present one, and maybe a few more rows of teeth. Oh, and also increase the cranium size so it is a bit more bulbous.


Carnifex - I have this head modelled already - it does seem very close to the termagant head, but with added horns and manbibles, but this model is confirmed to be remodelled - looking a bit like a cross between the original 2nd ED Hive Tyrant, Old One Eye claws, bisected jaw head and a twin barbed strangler gunsliiger complex - with tail! I am personally very happy with this, as the present model is supposed to look more beetle like, but actually looks like a steaming tu*d on legs, with a rhino head sticking out the front. I will post the present head on request, but seriously, I bevieve this will need to be redone.


Old One Eye - See above. Oh, and I abosolutely refuse to model the barnices that Ol' cyclops is infested with :jk:



Red Terror - This model may be redundant with the rumoured (Ohh, English Poster!) Ravener remodel, so I will not be modelling this yet. This being said, although I am aware that both ol'clops and big red are rare strains of tyranid (and not unique), I question their inclusion into a Tyranid Race Mod. as surely the emphais should be on main troop types, and not the 'special character' elements that serve as brand vehicles for GW.

I'll finish this post with some more views of the heads, at different angles - so you can all get a better view of what they look like...

http://scoullos.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/TyranHeads3.jpg

http://scoullos.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/TyrHeads2.jpg


Styrer

[ZzGashi]

if you look at your render of the lictor head and the head of the model you would know that the lictor has more tenticles on the front of his head. also i belive that the termagaunt has a normal round toung but other than that those are very good heads

[stryer]

ZzGashi, do you mean the tenticles that come out of it's nose (as per 2nd Ed lictor) or just more than 4 tenticles?

Here is another image to help you see all 4.

http://scoullos.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/headz.jpg

As for the termagant head, the only reason the tongue was sharp and pointy was to make it easir for me to texture and rig for animation. the final tongue shape is shown above.

Any better?

Styrer

[ZzGashi]

when i first saw(your lictor head) i thought u only put in 2 tenticles. yeah those are better

[Eilelwen]

carnifex half done

http://www.geocities.com/girashu/nid.jpg

may have to copy and paste the link cause its geocities.

[ZoopahFex]

i have some old models laying around for a Wc3 mod i was planning (but never really got any further than these models):

http://members.lycos.nl/zoop1984/CarnifexRender000.jpg
http://members.lycos.nl/zoop1984/CarnifexRender001.jpg
http://members.lycos.nl/zoop1984/HormagauntRender001.jpg
http://members.lycos.nl/zoop1984/ZoanthropeRender000.jpg
http://members.lycos.nl/zoop1984/ZoanthropeRender001.jpg
http://members.lycos.nl/zoop1984/OldOneEye.jpg

[Imperial marine]

cool models what do you use to make them anyway heres a idea for a artillery weapon biovores launching spores that exploade on contact or launchs spore mines that when it detects movement it attacks

[ZzGashi]

you where the guy who did all those models on Warcraft 3 campaigns. what happened to that thread? btw im genobreakerX on war3campaigns.

[ZoopahFex]

got no clue what happened to that thread :P i just stop checking/updating it, i guess ...

on most boards, im known as Zoop or Zoop1984, named myself on this board after my own carnifex mutation :) (my army has a ZoopahFex, ZoopahGaunts, ZoopahThrope, ZoopahVore etc :p)

anyway, i think these models are too lowly detailed for this engine, these models around any higher then say 1200 polys, the average lays around 500

And i use 3D Studio Max 6 (yes legal) to build these

anyhow, im going to focus on buildings, as there are enough excellent modellers building the creatures, and no1 does any buildings, so ill just do them :)

CUrrently working on modelling Droppods

[stryer]

ZooPahfex, have you seen the new tyranid plastic sprue with it's infestation markers?

These may make an excellent minefield equivivent for the 'nids, as it is supposed to spawn spore mines periodically.

I can post pics on request.

Styrer

[ZoopahFex]

no i havent, a friend of mine told about em, but havent gotten to see them yet ...

He also told me about the Genestealers, which look more gauntish? any clue where to find pics of that?

[Shakrith]

Here's an idea: Tyranids have infinite morale while in the aura of an unbroken synapse creature. If there are no synapse creatures in their vicinity, or all those within range are broken, the basic troopers will get back their ridiculously pathetic morale, and break like puppies the first time they get shot at. They suffer very severe broken effects too- they are nigh-on useless when broken.

They could also infest enemy buildings StarCraft style- they can build Genestealers from Cult Buildings. Genestealers are fast build units which are very good- smae cost, just fast build to rapidly exploit any infestations.

[ZoopahFex]

its a nice a idea yes, but it has been mentioned like 30 times before :p

hmm, looking at my zonathrope, i dont think its too bad. Maybe add some more detail, like giving it a face, and paws, and he could be fine...

hmm, if I have the time, ill work on the 'thrope

[stryer]

New nid sprue pics are available her on this site

nid sprues and other assorted flavors (http://groups.msn.com/M-PinkPics/gdtoronto2004tyranidshots.msnw?Page=2)

styrer

EDIT:

also, i just found this:

Battle for Macragge Starter boxset (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=60010199002&orignav=10)

If you read the blurb and look closely (top left), you will see the tyranid nodal point - surely a listening post if I ever saw one!

Bigger pic, when I find it!

[Abyss]

In my opionion you should just leave out the Cultist to me it would ruin the Tyranids theme of bieng alien.

[MusedMark]

In my opionion you should just leave out the Cultist to me it would ruin the Tyranids theme of bieng alien.

Not really, nids do infect these people ya know! :)

[TyranidWarlord]

Did anyone play StarCraft? It just seems to me that the 'nids would handle like the Zerg, someone mentioned before that the rippers became buildings, much like the Zerg out of StarCraft... No real point to this but it may be a good reference point for 'nids in games

[Kharneth]

Did anyone play StarCraft? It just seems to me that the 'nids would handle like the Zerg, someone mentioned before that the rippers became buildings, much like the Zerg out of StarCraft... No real point to this but it may be a good reference point for 'nids in games

Nids and Zerg while on the surface seem very similar, have some very distinct and very important differences. One of these being that Nids don't have little drones who mutate into buildings.

For some great food for thought on how do Nid Buildings/Bases, try to find White Dwarf (U.S.) 254. It has an article on Tyranid Bio-Structures.

[Cheetah-Xks]

nice models would of liked to see those in wc3

[artemis]

i see something like spore chimneys as buildings
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/QUATERMASTERS_STORE_TYRANIDS_13.html
they are at the bottom

[King_Wrex]

verry nice jobz people this is looking verry good i love bugs and this is awesome! some things to say, like if there was like some thing to do for a tech tree i can do that ok this is what i have come up with

Main Building (un decided)
produces: rippers (builders), warriors (first hq like bigmek), and hive tyrant (second hq like warboss)

Rippers
Helth: 50 each model max members 5
damage: 10-12 (rippers arent to bad in combat)
moral: un breakable (mabey)
Shoothing: none
build ability


Warrior
helth: 1000 (each) max members 9
armour: HQ
damage: 50-100 (with rending claws 80-180) and (with gun 40-90)
moral: un brakeable
Shooting (upgradeable)
1. venom cannon 100-150
2. barbed strangler 50-60 (blast)
3. devourer 15-30 (high attack speed)
other upgrades : flesh hooks, implant attack, leaping, winged.
ability to command aura
ability to use the knock back


Hive Tyrant
helth: 5000 max members 1 + 2 guard
armour: Hero
Damage: base 500-600
rending claws 600-700
sything talons 650-700 faster attack
Gun 400-500
2 guns 300-400
moral: un brakeable
shooting:
venom cannon 250-450
barbed strangler 200-300 ordanance
ability to command aura
ability to use the knock back

Tyrant Guard
helth: 1500 each
armour: med
damage: 80-180
rending claws 100-200
Gun: spine fist 50-60
other stuff: lash whips



normal warrior building (un decided)
produces: hormagaunt, termagaunt, genestealers, warriors, and gargoils

hormagaunt
helth: 100 (something like that)max squad members 16
armour: low
damage: 26-48 Fast Attack
gun: light Infantry
moral: low unless near comand aura making it high
can add leaping, flying, and implant attack


termagaunt
helth: 100 max squad members 16
armour: light Infantry
Damage: 6-15
gun:
flesh borer- 4-9 rapid attack
devourer- 3-11 extremely high attack rate
moral: low, if near comand aura high

Genestealers
helth: 300 max squad members 10
armour: Infantry
Damage: 150-200
gun: none
moral: high
cause fear


Warrior
helth: 1000 (each) max members 9
armour: HQ
damage: 50-100 (with rending claws 80-180) and (with gun 40-90)
moral: un brakeable
Shooting (upgradeable)
1. venom cannon 100-150
2. barbed strangler 50-60 (blast)
3. devourer 15-30 (high attack speed)
other upgrades : flesh hooks, implant attack, leaping, winged.
ability to command aura
ability to use the knock back


gargoil
helth: 150 (max squad members 15)
armour: Light Infantry
damage:20-30
gun:
flesh borer-15-25
devourer-15-20 verry fast attack rate
moral: low


monstrous creatures hive ( un decided name )
produces- carnifex, zonthrope, biovore, lictor and uber creatures (2) herodule, or herridan

Carnifex
helth: 3750
Armour: Vehical
damage:
1000-1500 Big knock back
scything talons 1000-1500 faster attack
rending claws 1500-2000
gun 1000-1000
2 gun 750-1000
Gun:
venom cannon- 750-1000
barbed strangler- 500-600 ordanance
death spitter- 400-500 blast
moral: like a tank dosent run away


Zonthrope
helth: 2000
Armour: Vehical
damage: 50-100
Gun:0
moral: unbrakeable (like a tank)
special ability
warp blast
blast- 500-650 recharge in 5 seconds
beam- 1000-2000 recharge in 5 seconds


Biovore
helth: 1000
Armour: Heavy Infantry
damage: 100-300
Gun:
spore mines
frag- 500 blast
poisen- 600 flame template
ordanance-400 ordanance
moral: un brakeable (like tank)


lictor
helth: 1500
Armour: Vehical
damage: 700-1000 med attack
Gun:none
moral: unbrakeable (like tank)
infeltrator cant be seen (at all) unless told to come out of hiding


Uber units

if there was a cost it should be around 2000 recon and 1000 power

herodule
helth: 9500
Armour: Verry High
damage: 3000-4500 faster attack than squigoth if has 2 sets of scything talons
1 gun-2000-4000
2 gun-1000-2000
Gun:
venom cannon-3000-4000
barbed strangler-2000-2500 ordanance
moral:unbrakeable
run down ability and like the stop

listning post (undecided name) maby spore chimney

generator (undecided name)

upgrade place (undecided name) maby spawning pool
upgrades- attack with talon attack with rending claws, attack with speed, winged (ect...)

I fixed it up a bit and toned it down tell me what ya think now?

oh and heres a pix of a dominatrix

http://forums.portent.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=26775

[Richdog]

Ya, because those uber Tyranid units that deal so much damage are so realistic for the game aren't they... very in proportion *cough*

[King_Wrex]

ya i know ... uh scratch the uber guyz or make em whorst

[Eilelwen]

Here it is a carnifex and yes I know I put Old One Eye claws on it but so what. Tri Count comes to 3092. Its almost fully rigged and I'm about to hand it off to my texturer to finish it off. gonna do some more of the weapons and stuff later eventually.

*note you may have to copy and paste the links for em to work

http://www.geocities.com/girashu/carnifex1.gif
http://www.geocities.com/girashu/carnifex2.gif

CRTIZIZE IT^^

[King_Wrex]

That Is AWESOME ITS SO COOL! i like the face

and isnt it a 2000 tri count?

[artemis]

tone down the ht and carnie or make them the uber units instead of the heridan and herodule (sp?) because in the tt a ht can kick just as much as as an avatar or bloodthirster

[Eilelwen]

a carnifex would be like a tank so there poly count can be higher :) because there isn't so many of them, so the 3k poly should be just fine. that and what the devs tell you is usally just a ref you can usually go 25% higher then what they tell you and be ok, that does raise the system specs though.

[King_Wrex]

wait so ur saying a carnifex is a uber unit...


a carnifex isa no uber unit i mean like a warrior can take a dreadnought but a carnifex is no uber unit

maby a... uh hiradule but its toned down a bit

and btw what system do u use again for the making of the carnifex? and is there a demo of it?

Double Post

ok i think i fixed the uber unit a little

[Eilelwen]

no I don't think the carnifex is a "uber" unit its more like a dreadnoght/killer kan/wraithlord, probably just bigger/tuffer.

added, as to what program I use, I use Maya 6 Unlimited(I use my schools version * I attend fullsail)

there is a student/trial version that you can download off of the alias website.

[King_Wrex]

oh ok ya

[Lord Azrael]

Yeah the stats on that unit list are a little wacky. While I'm all for having Tyranids in Dawn of War, I also want them to be balanced so that people who arn't playing Tyranids are willing to fight them. With stats like those no other race could do anything at all against them.

[King Raa]

Good model - can't wait to see it skinned.
Yeh I dunno what the numbers on that list mean ... lol are there similar lists made up for the actual races? W/e just so long as you can balance it out to be fair, its all good.

[King_Wrex]

i toned the list down cheack it out and tell me if its beter or whorst

[SerialKiller]

I have an idea for how the Army gets "Buildings". What if you start out with a chapel as someone mention which is genocultist controlled. The chapel produces cultist and magnus since they are the two first creatures to hit a planet. The cultist "worship" the sky to call the hive fleet to them. I believe in the codex it mentions how the larger the population of cultist on a planet, the more apt the hive is to come to the planet. When a cultist worships "pods of puss" drop from the sky which become the living bulidings of the army. From these puss pod building can other creatures be created.
I don't thing should "morph" to become creatures because that is very very StarCraftish and I don't think unique to the bugs.

[King_Wrex]

I have an idea for how the Army gets "Buildings". What if you start out with a chapel as someone mention which is genocultist controlled. The chapel produces cultist and magnus since they are the two first creatures to hit a planet. The cultist "worship" the sky to call the hive fleet to them. I believe in the codex it mentions how the larger the population of cultist on a planet, the more apt the hive is to come to the planet. When a cultist worships "pods of puss" drop from the sky which become the living bulidings of the army. From these puss pod building can other creatures be created.
I don't thing should "morph" to become creatures because that is very very StarCraftish and I don't think unique to the bugs.

ya uh that no offence sux i dont think it should be about genestealer cults it should be raw tyranids

[bignath87]

I think there first building should just be an infected space marine command center or if not that, then some sort of breathing stationary hive where its outsides expand and contract like a lung either when building or teching or just all the time. It would be pretty neat.

Also, is this just a mod thats going to be added on? And if it is will it be played fluently within multiplayer or is it like a downloadable one where people can only play against tyranid opponents if they have the mod downloaded?

[Shakrith]

Maybe we need to invent a seeding unit. A new tyranid organism, which exists solely for the purposes of spreading the spores of the Tyranid base. It could be some diminuitive creature somewhere between a gaunt and a spider, and it releases spores which grow into buildings. Not terribly good at fighting though. You could start with one of these, as usual, and a Hive, which is a nexus for the greater Tyranid consciousness. It is like a synapse creature but a building. It hatches these things, and provides build radius and population. Further population is gained by getting more synapse creatures and more synapse upgrades at the Hive. Hive upgrades add only a couple more population, and you really have to get other creatures to build up more.

How's that for a start?

[Bravus]

Here it is a carnifex and yes I know I put Old One Eye claws on it but so what. Tri Count comes to 3092. Its almost fully rigged and I'm about to hand it off to my texturer to finish it off. gonna do some more of the weapons and stuff later eventually.

*note you may have to copy and paste the links for em to work

http://www.geocities.com/girashu/carnifex1.gif
http://www.geocities.com/girashu/carnifex2.gif

CRTIZIZE IT^^

you can easily save a whole bunch of polies when you don't model all the teeth.... just make a plane of a few polies and use an alphachannel on the textures to achieve the effect you have now with way too much polies used.

[Shakrith]

Bravo!

If anybody needs help with unit stats or design, I can help. Or not, if you don't need help.

[Rollnon20s]

I would like to see it textured

[stryer]

no...oh, OK... :weep:

Here is a work in progress for my next completed troop allocation, the humble hormagaunt

http://scoullos.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/hormagant.jpg

The mesh is around 1615 triangles at the moment, and I still need to finish the texture of the scything talons, and then move onto the legs.

Any crits or questions welcome.

Styrer

[Bravus]

looks great!!!
1600 polies should be fine, as long as you will do versions for LOD (level of detail), so that the system won't slow down even if the screen is full of those small monsters.

[stryer]

Yes, thought of that, but I cant seem to find any information about scaling down in the engine - if my memeory serves, the scaling is dynamic...so either I need lots of LOD meshes or none at all - I will wait and see...


Styrer

[Rhad]

great work!!! i´m really looking forward to the tyranid mod

about how tyranids start, I think it would be better to start with lictors instead of genestealers cult. They are supposed to be the hive mind´s scouts so it can select which planet tyranids should attack. The squad size would be only one and could be comparable to a squad of, for example, 4 marine scouts.

Whay do you think?

[Eilelwen]

you can easily save a whole bunch of polies when you don't model all the teeth.... just make a plane of a few polies and use an alphachannel on the textures to achieve the effect you have now with way too much polies used.

yup yup I know all about alpha channels and such been modding games now close to 4-5 years, also going to school so I can become a comp animator hehe. The teeth are modeled atm to show what it would look like textured they will not stay onto the final model.

[Bravus]

yup yup I know all about alpha channels and such been modding games now close to 4-5 years, also going to school so I can become a comp animator hehe. The teeth are modeled atm to show what it would look like textured they will not stay onto the final model.

sorry, i didn't want to sound as if i think your model's crap, i just wanted to suggest a way to save polies, just in case you didn't know.
hope to see progress on your model soon, it's nice work!

[King_Wrex]

great work!!! i´m really looking forward to the tyranid mod

about how tyranids start, I think it would be better to start with lictors instead of genestealers cult. They are supposed to be the hive mind´s scouts so it can select which planet tyranids should attack. The squad size would be only one and could be comparable to a squad of, for example, 4 marine scouts.

Whay do you think?

uh ... Lictors!?!?!?! are you off your roccer no offence but lictors are good i mean Like REally good you shouldnt diss a lictor and make him a scout unit no offence but thats what i think

and also i like the uh make our own like spore spreadig unit

and i like that gaunt its nice but isnt its stomach like a little small or something ? i dont know it looks a wee bit small to meh

And i think that .. well how are you gona see a tyranid of any sort getting a poast that will look kinda funny... a tyranid bowing down or something of the sort it wont look proper i dont think it will any way. so ya thats what my ideas are.

[Rhad]

what I was trying to say is that lictors are supposed to be the swarm scouts. The first step on a tyranid invasion is the presence of lictors on the planet, before all the tyranids descent on it. I know it would be better than a normal marine scout but it would be only one per squad. Also a lictor isn´t that tough, it has T4 and W3 with a 5+ cover save. It could be shot down by a marine scout squad. And don´t worry, no offense at all!!!

[King_Wrex]

Ya but its Got Friggen 3 Wounds and it is alot meatyer cuz it aint gona be shot down its gona come from no where and strike into close combat

And another thing its genestealers who are like the scouts if any one it would be them

[Rhad]

i understand your point, i was trying to make something that represent a real tyranid attack and thats the way they usually act. Perhaps they could be spotted by a gun turret or something? I still believe that it could be done maintaing the balance. a genestealer brood is even nastier than a single lictor.

[King_Wrex]

Thats true but uh i have no clue what to do then... uh i have an idea for a builder tho the builder can be the scataphagoids if you guys red in page... The really long p[oast about hive fleet kracken the scataphagoids cleaned and stuff like that so they could be the builders? maby


ya the scataphagoids are the size of betals and look a little like them

[ZzGashi]

that hormaguant looks to skinny get wazz (or what ever his name is) and get him to help out

[Shakrith]

The hormagaunt is a bit skinny, but it is very good. Bulk it out a little and it will be great.

Genestealers are the ideal scout: they are vanguard organisms, can operate without the hive mind, and they can infiltrate. Their close combat ability is balanced by their complete lack of ranged attacks, so they can be like slugga boyz: good at cc, bad at range, but shifted even more to CC and more expensive and quick.

[Richtofen]

I want to see some dude go "haha zerg haX0r, u can't kill my predator!" and a brood of genestealers decloak and rip the pred to shreds and hes like "OMGWTFHAX!"

[King_Wrex]

uh ... yeah sure but the idea of a genestealer as a scout is set than... yep ok cool so hows the uh carnifex coming? at all? ok well ya

[Eilelwen]

I am curently UV mapping the carnifex and my UV mapper is waiting till I have the uv mapping done, I also need to know if the mesh has to be all one peice or if it can be seperated.

[[Death_Jester]]

Ok...i've just read through 13 pages of stuff....yup, i aint got a life...lol...however, i just thought that i wud sumarize all the ideas contained, just to make it eaiser for the modders here to decide....mebbe someone cud call a vote in another thread to discern the best idea...iono...

IDEAS - Unit structures
Genesetealer cult variation 1
sorta chaosy, with cultists being the main builder and unit....
Genestealers are "higher class" fighters
little, to no ranged attack

Genestealer cult variation 2
Genestealers act as builders and scouts
Call down other units from the hive mind
Mass swarm genestealer (i think)

Swarm variation 1
Hordes of little gribblies
produced at large amounts
low cost, but purty weak

Swarm variation 2
Some little gribblies
Some bigger gribblies

IDEAS - Buildings

Variation 1
cultists construct the buildings
temple like thingys where genestealers breed

Varation 2
Main blob which grows other buildings out which provide other bonuses and units

Variation 3
Ripper swams build/morph into a building

Variation 4
Ripper swarms both cruddy swarm unit and builder,
Buildings require a certain amount of rippers
Once enough is ammassed, they jump into construction/bio digestion tube, and a tentacle comes out of the ground at designated location, and a new buiding grows out

Variation 4.5
Same as above, but perhaps the amount of rippers determines the speed and health that which the building is built?

IDEAS - Miscellaneous

MORAL - Variation 1
Near synapse creature, unbreakable
Once leaves "aura" range, immeadiatly starts panicking

MORAL - Variation 2
Synapse creatures provide bonus to moral
Once leaves "aura" range, moral is lower than a grotz...lol

Moral - Variation 3
Synapse creatures make them unbreakable
Once leaves "aura" range, moral steadily declines

Bonuses - Variation 1
Same thing as CnC generals chinese horde bonus for the litte gribblies

Well...thats all the ideas i can remember....soz if i forgot someone...lol....im jet lagged :P

[Shakrith]

Nice ideas. I like the idea of getting rippers to build stuff... and I think Morale Variation 3 is good, with a mix between 'stealers and swarm. You still have all the normal 'nids, but where are you without stealers?

[King_Wrex]

i like variation 2 and 3 but not 1 i mean its o kbut not what it should be

[Lord Azrael]

Well, problem is, Genestealers are supposed to be REALLY good at close combat. Making them a scout troop could be a mistake.

Termagaunts on the other hand, are supposed to be extremely numerous in a Tyranid Force. (Fluff wise)
Termagaunts would make an excellent candidate for the early/scout unit. Keep in mind that similar to the TT, the Gaunts would lack any sort of extreme Heavy Weapon.

Balance wise, this places them in a similar bracket to Guardians, Cultists, Scouts and Slugga Boys. As far as the infiltrate skill goes it would be possible to either have it be a one time research thing, or an individual unit upgrade. But that would also depend on how upgrades are handled in general.
If Bio-Morphs could be handled by having whatever is used as the "Barracks" have multiple upgrades, but only allowing a certain number of them. But, if thats the case, it could also be possible to make an additional barracks to make units with a diffrent Bio-Morph Set. This would make the Tyranid player think about the upgrades more so than just nabbing them all (like the no brainer grabbing all Possessed upgrades)

People have discussed using Rippers as the Builder unit. And assuming Tyranids end up using builder units, thats not a bad place for them. Otherwise they would likly serve a funtion to similar to other units. On the other hand, Rippers could serve the purpose of cheap fodder unit instead of the Termagaunts. But, them having infiltratre would be somewhat bizzare, and not all races have a early fighting unit that can infiltrate. (Orc Slugga boys cannot cloak, but Gretchin can although they cannot capture Strat Points)

Hive Tyrant would serve as a Force Commander. Question being, is if Tyranids should even get two Hero Units. Personally I don't think they need two of them. The Tyrant should be the biggest baddest single unit in the nid army. But, to balance him early game, he pops out completely un-biomorphed, and must be upgraded, (Or have the Bio-Morphs researched) to reach his proper potential. Would also be possible to have the Tyrant guards as a re-enforcement type option for the Tyrant. (Tho he is unable to join with squads)

Warriors Are similar in use to Tac Squads, but more expenisve, and require more pop cap. Debateable on if Venom Cannon etc should be counted as a Heavy Weapon, and require them to set up. For the purposes of DOW they should be available in squads of 3-5. Size wize they are fairly large and should be able to knock other infantry around.

Hormagaunts are close combat light infantry. Cheap to make, large squad size, but don't do much damage to vehicles/buildings. Fast run speed.

Genestealers close combat Heavy Troops. Comparable to Possessed Chaos Marines, but with more damage and less health/armor.

As far as Heavy/Support go,

Carnifex obviously. Brute Powerhouse with weapon upgrades.

Lictor- Lictors could be sorta out of place unless given the proper abilities. Infiltrate and DeepStrike both make sense with the unit. But at the same time they arn't as powerful as a dreadnaught so droping them by themselves could be a bad idea. Lictors could be given jump as well, but instead of jumping they blend into the background and sneak over to the location. (Basiclly the same as teleport) And since they are farily large, they could also knock troops around.

Biovore instead of being an artillary units that just shoots diffrent blast types, might be possible to make it actually shoot mines that drift around. (Might have to be implemented similar to a deep strike) You could build mines from the biovore and then shoot em/deepstrike em out. More micro intensive, but it does allow for spore mines to float around (or even stay in place). Although without some sort of limit a Tyranid player could flood a section with spore mines and not have any down side. But if the player buys the mines it wouldn't be that diffrent than laying down a mine field. And it would give the nids a unique artillary piece in DOW, while also replacing the standard mine field.

Zoanthropes would likly be comparable to the eldar grav platforms. But having the abilities of both. Normally they fire a single bolt that deals decent damage. But they could also have a recharable ability that hits the area and knocks the targets around. (like the D Cannon)

As others pointed out, using the Hierodule for the Relic unit would be a good unit.

That covers most the units aside from Gargoyles and Raveners. Problem with both of those in finding a place for them to fill in DOW. Gargoyles could have the jump ability, but they are primarly shooty units, and having a fairly weak shooty unit that jumps around won't accomplish a huge amount. Might be possible to give them the flamers they had in 2nd edition though.

Raveners fall into a simialr trap. Theres already Hormaguants and Genestealers. The only benefit that Raveners have (other than being a bit tougher and faster than Genestealers) Is that they can also buy weapons and shoot from long range.

As it stands something needs to be done with both Gargoyles and Raveners to make them viable units. (Without being overly redundant)

As far as the Tyranid Moral goes, the 2nd method that Death_Jester recomended was the one that I was thinking of. When in Synampse range of Warriors or the Tyrant then units have a very fast morale regen rate. (But not unbreakable)

And as far as actual stats of units are concerned, might be better to wait for the actual release and pop out a spread sheet to make sure that the numbers for all the races remain somewhat even. (cost versus damage etc)

[Dalveldrin]

I do agree on termagants being the scout squad for tyranids, and for the Raveners, they are also faster than the other melee troops. So that could be one advantage.

[Shakrith]

I suppose Rangers aren't exactly the basic scout unit...

You're right. Termagants should be the basic unit. I think that morale, however, should be: Synapse range- unbreakable, out of range- normal, with particularly low morale. Synapse creatures could cost no population (but have a separate limit- you can have X squads of warriors, 1 hive tyrant, and a bit from zoanthropes and the first hive). If you have seen the two new (old, but returned) tyranid weapons, you'll see how Gargs can work: the Spike Rifle can be their standard ranged weapon, with upgrades to get that thing that sprays goo. Those weapons can make Gargoyles a bit like weak, but much faster on foot, warp spiders, easily able to kill infantry. Raveners can then get the juicy close combat abilities with their scythed talons. I think that if we decided to disallow ranged weapons for Raveners, that would give them a niche of their own. Possibly their appearance could be merged slightly with the Red Terror to make them more menacing.

[ZoopahFex]

When a nid steps put of synapse range, it should lose morale immediatally, this prevents the allknown "zergling rush". Gaunt squads could be the basic unit, but for them to leave the base, theyd need at least one hive node within the squad. THis way you cant just swarm the enemy with loads of gaunts in the early game, since the squads alone are far too weak. Just shoot the hive node, and you are done.

So, this way you can use gaunts to scout around, and take objectives, but when assaulting, bigger synapse creatures such as warriors are required.

For the sake of the popularity of the mod: No Genestealer cult. For me it ruins the "alienish" feel. The cult could be something to be used in single player campaigns, but not a standard feature of the army.

Tyranids dont NEED the cult to assault a planet, though it does help. SO probably single player only. Or ... maybe giving certain nids the ability to infest a building, rather than destroying it. THe building needs to be destroyed like normal, but when it runs out of health, it doesnt get destroyed, but morphes into a Cultist building, where you can get cheap reinforcements during the battle. THe building would be easily destroyed (especially since it gets constructed right in the middle of a battle) but could turn the tide, if used correctly. YOu could use it to reinforce the assault with some more cannon fodders, to keep the bigger nids alive.

anyway, something like that.

I just wished i had more time, id really like to model more buildings, and finish the 'Thrope, but i got a girlfriend recently, and shes kinda absorbing all my spare time :)

its good to see, that there are so many people contributing to this project :) keep up the good work

[Shakrith]

Good for you!

I don't think that Genestealers need to be cultists, but the morph idea is intriguing. Perhaps there could be genestealers (built from a troop building), but when they kill enemies, they can turn them into new 'stealers for the squad. On half health, mind you. Maybe even buildings could be captured to make into Cult buildings, which build genestealers. However, I can see people simply double-tapping Delete as soon as they see 'stealers getting ready to capture. Like in Generals, how you simply destroy buildings to stop their capture by the foe. I can't see a way to get around this.

[Dalveldrin]

I love all the ideas put forth so far. I do agree on not using the cults. Someone stated before the idea of the Lictor being able to teleport to show its ability of sneaking.... I would rather them have infiltration and deep strike only. Deep strike obviously like in the TT where they were there the whole time, you just chose to display them. Only problem with teleport would be people abusing it in un-tyranid-y ways. Like killing one squad then teleporting across the street to engage the next. Would feel un-Lictor-y

[Shakrith]

They could be lightning fast, though. But not in the same way as Raveners; they boost in speed to assault enemies, but creep slowly otherwise. I don't like the deep strike. It's better with them infiltrating.

[Eilelwen]

carnifex model is done to my liking now, Rig is completed. All thats left is some UV mapping and test animatioins.

[King_Wrex]

Well, problem is, Genestealers are supposed to be REALLY good at close combat. Making them a scout troop could be a mistake.

Termagaunts on the other hand, are supposed to be extremely numerous in a Tyranid Force. (Fluff wise)
Termagaunts would make an excellent candidate for the early/scout unit. Keep in mind that similar to the TT, the Gaunts would lack any sort of extreme Heavy Weapon.

Balance wise, this places them in a similar bracket to Guardians, Cultists, Scouts and Slugga Boys. As far as the infiltrate skill goes it would be possible to either have it be a one time research thing, or an individual unit upgrade. But that would also depend on how upgrades are handled in general.
If Bio-Morphs could be handled by having whatever is used as the "Barracks" have multiple upgrades, but only allowing a certain number of them. But, if thats the case, it could also be possible to make an additional barracks to make units with a diffrent Bio-Morph Set. This would make the Tyranid player think about the upgrades more so than just nabbing them all (like the no brainer grabbing all Possessed upgrades)

People have discussed using Rippers as the Builder unit. And assuming Tyranids end up using builder units, thats not a bad place for them. Otherwise they would likly serve a funtion to similar to other units. On the other hand, Rippers could serve the purpose of cheap fodder unit instead of the Termagaunts. But, them having infiltratre would be somewhat bizzare, and not all races have a early fighting unit that can infiltrate. (Orc Slugga boys cannot cloak, but Gretchin can although they cannot capture Strat Points)

Hive Tyrant would serve as a Force Commander. Question being, is if Tyranids should even get two Hero Units. Personally I don't think they need two of them. The Tyrant should be the biggest baddest single unit in the nid army. But, to balance him early game, he pops out completely un-biomorphed, and must be upgraded, (Or have the Bio-Morphs researched) to reach his proper potential. Would also be possible to have the Tyrant guards as a re-enforcement type option for the Tyrant. (Tho he is unable to join with squads)

Warriors Are similar in use to Tac Squads, but more expenisve, and require more pop cap. Debateable on if Venom Cannon etc should be counted as a Heavy Weapon, and require them to set up. For the purposes of DOW they should be available in squads of 3-5. Size wize they are fairly large and should be able to knock other infantry around.

Hormagaunts are close combat light infantry. Cheap to make, large squad size, but don't do much damage to vehicles/buildings. Fast run speed.

Genestealers close combat Heavy Troops. Comparable to Possessed Chaos Marines, but with more damage and less health/armor.

As far as Heavy/Support go,

Carnifex obviously. Brute Powerhouse with weapon upgrades.

Lictor- Lictors could be sorta out of place unless given the proper abilities. Infiltrate and DeepStrike both make sense with the unit. But at the same time they arn't as powerful as a dreadnaught so droping them by themselves could be a bad idea. Lictors could be given jump as well, but instead of jumping they blend into the background and sneak over to the location. (Basiclly the same as teleport) And since they are farily large, they could also knock troops around.

Biovore instead of being an artillary units that just shoots diffrent blast types, might be possible to make it actually shoot mines that drift around. (Might have to be implemented similar to a deep strike) You could build mines from the biovore and then shoot em/deepstrike em out. More micro intensive, but it does allow for spore mines to float around (or even stay in place). Although without some sort of limit a Tyranid player could flood a section with spore mines and not have any down side. But if the player buys the mines it wouldn't be that diffrent than laying down a mine field. And it would give the nids a unique artillary piece in DOW, while also replacing the standard mine field.

Zoanthropes would likly be comparable to the eldar grav platforms. But having the abilities of both. Normally they fire a single bolt that deals decent damage. But they could also have a recharable ability that hits the area and knocks the targets around. (like the D Cannon)

As others pointed out, using the Hierodule for the Relic unit would be a good unit.

That covers most the units aside from Gargoyles and Raveners. Problem with both of those in finding a place for them to fill in DOW. Gargoyles could have the jump ability, but they are primarly shooty units, and having a fairly weak shooty unit that jumps around won't accomplish a huge amount. Might be possible to give them the flamers they had in 2nd edition though.

Raveners fall into a simialr trap. Theres already Hormaguants and Genestealers. The only benefit that Raveners have (other than being a bit tougher and faster than Genestealers) Is that they can also buy weapons and shoot from long range.

As it stands something needs to be done with both Gargoyles and Raveners to make them viable units. (Without being overly redundant)

As far as the Tyranid Moral goes, the 2nd method that Death_Jester recomended was the one that I was thinking of. When in Synampse range of Warriors or the Tyrant then units have a very fast morale regen rate. (But not unbreakable)

And as far as actual stats of units are concerned, might be better to wait for the actual release and pop out a spread sheet to make sure that the numbers for all the races remain somewhat even. (cost versus damage etc)

ya the hole hive tyrant being the force comander dosent really work no offence but uh ... no hes almost like a war boss the warrior squad would be beter as a team , beter than a force commander but ya hive tyrant = mister macho

oh and good job ( i havent seen it yet ) but good job :) yaie
on da carnifex and all (edited)

[Lord Azrael]

How would the Hive Tyrant as a Force Commander not work? The Space Marine Force Commander is an incredibly powerful unit and you get him early. The Librarian has some decent powers, but I don't think he's as powerful as the SM Force Commander. Similar to how the Chaos Sorc is powerful, but not as powerful as the Chaos Lord.

What I was getting at with the upgrades for the Tyrant is that after some bio morphs he becomes as powerful as need be. But he wouldn't start out over powered.

Hive Warriors shouldn't be limited to being the "command" unit in the begining. Unless that squad is roughly as powerful as all the other heroes in the game then the Tyranid player would be at a disadvantage early game. And if they are not quite as powerful, but you can make multiple squads, that could cause problems as well. If warrior squads were limited by tier then it could be ok. But being able to pump out multiple hero quality units would be a mistake.

[King_Wrex]

... ok im saying that the tyrant is like the Warboss and you get him later

[Lord Azrael]

Ah gotcha, I misuderstood you. (Thought you were talking about having warriors be a team of hero type units)

Well as fas as the Tyrant being available early or later, that will likly have to be fiddled with. Could see it either a very powerful late game hero unit, or a reasonably powerful early hero unit, that can become very powerful late game due to advanced Bio Morphs. Personally I prefer the power up approach becuase it will allow the Tyrant to be in more games, and if synapse is important, then nids will likly need both the Tyrant and Warriors for Synapse Control. Not allowing Tyrants till later could punish them.

[King_Wrex]

Oh ok i gotcha ya i get it cool wellp... i really wana see that finished carnifex oh it sounds so good any one got ideas of what to build next?... cuz i think we need basic thing next and work up from there? :)

[stryer]

In reply to the thin hormagaunt responses I have received:

http://scoullos.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/gauntsilo.gif

If this is OK, I will post the finished Hormagaunt next to the finished Ripper for approval


Styrer

[King_Wrex]

That is NICE!
Thats like perfict thats awesomei love it so awesome it looks alot beter with a fatter belly Nice job there styrer Thats Awesome!

So nice

[stryer]

but I guess it's worth it...

http://scoullos.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/finished.jpg

This is what we have so far...now onto a fleshborer, gargoyle crest and implant tongue...

Once those are done, i'll post the completed Gargoyle and termagant models, leaving only genestealers left to model for rank and file - then, and only then, will I start on the warrior genus morphs - Warrior, Lictor, Tyrant Guard.

BTW: does anyone have any ideas about the spore mines: should they be modelled differently , or is this just a waste of resources? The frag, bioacid and ... other one all look pretty much the same, and the extra detail will probably get lost at even close range.

As always, any comments are welcome.

Styrer

[ZoopahFex]

nice gaunt ;)

the mines porbably just need different textures to represent each

[stryer]

Of course! - im an idiot! :bandit:

I think I'll do that right now.... [stumbles off, looking silly]

[Eilelwen]

really nice gaunt I'm gonna work on the venom cannon/barbed strangler and rending claws tonight/tommorow and get those modeled. unless of course they have already been done. and guys where are we gonna organize into an official team so we don't overlap each other?

[Lakrillo]

I like that hormagaunt, although it seems to have some stretching problems in the skin, might be from when you did it thicker or something...
As you see the characters from above most times, make sure you put down weight on those parts instead of the belly.
good work though. keep it up. :)


*edit*
read up and it seems like you are working on the modelling and the skin ain't really finished. (or?)
if so, you know what to do then. ;)

[Lord Azrael]

The Relic Clan Forums offer free forum space to mods. I submitted a request for a Tyranid Forum there. With that we would be able to keep everyone on the same page as well as help seperate model and unit attribute disscussions. (For ease of reading)

[Eilelwen]

aye a forum would be good. I don't really want to do work that other people have done because thers no reason to do double the work ^^.

[stryer]

:boohoo:
I absolutley cannot model hands - so how i'm going to do the rending claws, or even the claws for the below models, I have no idea!

http://scoullos.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/bitz.jpg

Anyone have any pointers for me in regards to modelling hands - a tutorial perhaps?

Lakrillo - regarding the stretching - can you point out for where this is especially troublesome, I think I am too close to the model to tell anymore.



Lakrillo said:

As you see the characters from above most times, make sure you put down weight on those parts instead of the belly

Do you mean make the model wider? I think it is pretty similar to the gaunt models themselves (with the exception of less womanly hips :jk: ) - I could make it more stoky in general, but the gaunt genus are supposed to be agile and fast - in my head, I see jaguar /cheetah comparisions, so he width is fine. Feel free to re-educate me, as if they look incorrect, I will change it for the good of the swarm

Eilelwen - my claws are mainly for holding weapons, where appropriate: If I were you, i woul keep modelling as you are; the more model options the eventual mod has, the better.
If you are really worried about "doubling up", can I suggest the Ravener - it would be the last thing I would model anyway.

ZoopahFex - the spore mine is modelled now, but UVW mapping it is another story. Once done, i'll post some pics; maybe you and other members could give me some suggestions as how to diversfy the model through textures to make the 3 spore types look significantly different - perhaps if I post the UVW wireframe map for other people to texture and post. Good idea :?:

How are the buildings coming along? Any pics or plans for more?

Styrer - part of Tyranid Mod (tm) (a non registered company -tm stands for Tyranid Models!)

[Eilelwen]

hmm I would work on the ravener but I don't have the model on me, and I prefer to work with the model, what do you have done in the way of the tyranid warrior?? I had my brother start on the Hive Tyrant and he is a really good modeler as well. also I can easily model the claws/hands for any of the tyranid creatures. but I think I will get done some of the weapons for the larger creatures.

as for modeling hands I would try cgtalk and places like that for those tuts.

Eilelwen - Modeler/Rigger

[stryer]

Inspired by what you said, I took another look at the models I have in front of me and i think I have managed it fairly well with the rending claws now -thanks a bunch.

As for the Hive Tyrant - Blimey :!:

I was really dreading modelling those lot, so I guess I wont wory about it now! Hurrah...<cough>

EDIT: Tyranid Warrior - only the head and scything talons done so far, but he's on my list. Why dont you do it too, and we'll compare styles as we go? Or would you prefer to work on something else?

I'll post the claws once done so you can have a look.

In regards to an earlier post of mine, would anyone be willing to try texture a spore mine?


Styrer - will model for food, or art students

[Lord Azrael]

ooo Good News Everyone! We now have access to our own Tyranid Modding Forum over at Relic's Clan Forums.

http://clanforums.relicnews.com/viewforum.php?f=76

Can also add more forum types if need be. (And we can deal with the "member only" forums when theres a better need for them)

Anyway, if people start posting over there it could help clean things up and help the modelers to keep a good grip on what the others are up to. It would also allow the modelers to get direct feedback for a model or unit, instead of having to sort through various other discussions as well.

[Eilelwen]

Styrer I will work on the warrior then we can decide which one we like, i'm cool with that, I will do the weapons though and finish those off.

that and I already have half a warrior done from a previous project so I can just steel off of that hehe.

[ZoopahFex]

nifty, our own forums, ill start posting there soon enuf :) i just wish i had more time on my hands, id love to do more buildings and finish my Zoanthrope

*edit* weird, i cant log on to those boards with my own account, but i cant also make a new one, cuz my email is already registered

[Shakrith]

Nice, nice work there.

[Kal-Jerico]

Here's how I'd do it if I could... (by the way this is a blatant zerg rip off)

Nids get a Capilary tower base building, and this 'builds' the other structures by thrusting tendrils into the ground, where they burst up into the chosen area as the 'structure'. These structures would be more like living caves (or like the egg sack end of the queen alien in aliens...) and some of them would lash out at attackers (ork buildings have guns on top, nid buildings bite back... ^^) so the need for a basic 'worker' type is removed, as there hasn't been any kind of reference to them 40k side...

The gaunts would just have to be the basic unit, two types trainable from start building (like orks) terms and hourmagaunts, with a max size of 20 ish... with a gene chamber (<cough>spawingpool<cough>) to create rippers and genestealers.

I also think that like the ork resource, tyranids would need a consumed resource... killing / taking ground gets you consuming points... or the numbers or rippers affects this.

The gene chamber leads to their 'armoury' type, imagine a large shell like construct, facilitating carapace research, venomed talons or inteligent symbiotes (armour, combat and shooting respectively) This chamber would unlock warriors from the start building (<cough>zerghive<cough>) and these have a synapse 'aura' WC3 style, granting near immunity to moral affects, and a slight increse in power. Warriors can be 'attatched' to gaunt squads to give them a little more lifespan. (the warriors, the gaunts are cannon fodder...)

then upgrade capillary tower, and contruct hive nodes, wich allow pods of zonethropes (similar to fire prism in it's affects) and harradrian deep strike drops of gargoyles. these would need to be fairly pathetic, bit the bio plasma attack would kill moral.

And there is no way that you shuld be able to deep strike Hive tyrants, although wings would give them jump ability. 'fex's for the siege unit.. barbed strangler artilllery (like defiler, VV innacurate)

One more word, Heirodule. dribble.

RE: power, not plasma generators but spore chimneys, spouting nid spores and generating 'power' equivelent.

Right, flame me...

[[Death_Jester]]

Just wondering, are there any good, 3d modelling freewares out there? cuz i really wanna do something other than summarize ideas, fun *cough* *cough* as that is...

[stryer]

i would really suggest GMAX - www.discreet.com


GMAX is the free (a fully functional in terms of modelling / UVW mapping) version of 3D studio MAX.

It's what I use -- I havent felt helld back in any way yet, as the tutorials for 3DS MAX on the net work for GMAX too

Styrer

PS: ZoopahFex - When you get your postng woes on the 'other' forums- let us know. Iwill swap over when you do.

[Chaos Lord]

lol my little brother loves 'nids
infact the only reason hes gonna play this game is because your making this mod
your making one real happy 11 year old here ;)

[Eilelwen]

The Tyranids should be a fun addition to this game, I myself can't wait to cause much mayhem and blood shed with this guys ^^.

[Lord Azrael]

Hey Zoopahfex, Any luck luck logging onto the other forums? (If your email is registred you could try saying you forgot your password or whatnot, it likly sends password and username to your email. Or you could email em and ask to send your user name and password to your email account)

[King_Wrex]

Hey Whatz up nice looking gargoils Yay. and also i have a few things to say so i will say em

one i would like to do something in this but i have no clue what to do i suck at modeling and there arent many more jobs to do i mean i can try some tutorials i guess

two how is progress coming so if ur working on a model xan ya state the percent you are to finising the model and the percent of how close you are to finishing the mapping and texturizing.
That would be help full.

and finnaly whats the web to the side about the whole us getting our own place to work with or What? the link to our own
fourm?

Wellp thats about all i can think of at the momment. :) yaie

[[Death_Jester]]

Theres the clan forum which someone (soz, forgot ur name) got a bit of for us :) but its not really alive at the moment...lol...

http://clanforums.relicnews.com/index.php

Scroll near the bottom

[stryer]

ooh, our poor thread - watch as it sinks into oblivion...
:jk:

Never! :bandit: Although I thought that leaving this thread clear for more rules / fluff wars - looks like that has petered out.

Here are some of the images floating around of my finished models

http://scoullos.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/Gargoyle.jpg

http://scoullos.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/Hormagaunt.jpg

http://scoullos.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/Genestealer.jpg

http://scoullos.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/Ripper.jpg

http://scoullos.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/Termagant.jpg

http://scoullos.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/Lictor.jpg



NOTE: Finished is such a subjective term, as they are not rigged for animation, the textures will need to be redone to work with the army painter, the Hormagaunt needs retexturing so it can be told apart easier from the Termagant, the UVW mapping and Skin layouts will have to all be changed to accomidate however RELIC have implimented the weapons system. Plus SOMEONE :naughty: forgot to texture the Lictor tenticles

Stryer (whatever my name says when I post)


PS: keep an eye out for Eilelwen''s Hive Tyrant - its a monster!

[Eilelwen]

Here is my Brothers job on the Hive Tyrant (he wanted to model something so I said go) his Body my arms. It is modeled after the Forge World Varient because my brother couldn't find good enough pictures for the original Tyrant.

http://www.geocities.com/girashu/tyrant.gif
http://www.geocities.com/girashu/tyrant1.gif

*Note some detail will be removed after the texture is done, so the poly count is not final yet.

[Shakrith]

Looks promising!.

On the subject of projectile art, the majority of lighter weapons shoot clouds of beetles/worms/stuff. So a sort of greenish brown whirling cloud of 3 or 4 poly beetles maybe?

[King_Wrex]

Thats awesoime nice job... wheres the carnifex? lol its fine all thoes things Look So awesome theyre

so the things we have done and skinned are Gargoil, hormagaunt, termagaunt, genestealer lictor and 2 in progress (hive tyrant and carnifex)

[Eilelwen]

I have passed the carnifex onto my texturer updates will be slow but they will be coming now.

[CLR]

I don't know if it was done officially so here goes,

on behalf of the entire necron team MANY THANKS to Styrer for the power generator model!

If some of you don't know what I'm talking about, head over to the necron forum and check it out.

CLR

[Nocturne]

I don't know if it was done officially so here goes,

on behalf of the entire necron team MANY THANKS to Styrer for the power generator model!

If some of you don't know what I'm talking about, head over to the necron forum and check it out.

CLR

Yep a big thanks, that is one awesome model. Good going on this mod too, you seem to be moving so fast when it comes to unit models :D

[King_Wrex]

yaie i am here and im not queer.... yeah... well any awy what i mean to say is i can make an ice cream cone a teapot and a doughnut on g max 'lol they are all basic shapes but uh oh well lol

yeaahhh!

[stryer]

It's a start Wrex - believe me, I wasnt that much better until recently. Have a go at making a basic house - it is simple and composed of the standard primatives, but introduces to you many of the more advanced polygonal techniques, such as extrude, surface cut, lathe, etc.

Sryrer

[Eilelwen]

Wrex everyone had to start everywhere eventually you be making very complex things out of a cube eventually ^^. But now onto the Carnifex Texture, look out for a complete texture this friday maybe earlyier. went for a beatle look alot on this so enjoy.

http://www.geocities.com/girashu/carnifextex.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/girashu/carnifextex1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/girashu/carnifextex2.jpg

[King_Wrex]

NICE! thats one good looking carnifex but one ting the background makes it hard to see the carnifex its how u say similar
but none the less it looks awesome .

[King Raa]

I really like styrers but not so keen on the skinning of Eilelwens...

[Sons of Russ]

"Here's how I'd do it if I could... (by the way this is a blatant zerg rip off)"


-The 'nids have been around FAR longer than Starcraft

(you should be asking blizzard about their blatant Tyranid rippoff by using zerg)

Zerglings= termagants
Warriors?=Ravenors

... the list is long....

KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK GUYS!

[Cortanus]

Zerglings= termagants
Warriors?=Ravenors

Starcraft was around before 3rd ed 40k, when Ravenors were introduced.

[Falcon]

Hmm sugestion alsways do different weapons for the canifex/warrior/hive tyrant as bio weapons are pretty nastry

[King_Wrex]

hmmmmm o but do u mean zergling = hormagaunt as
hydralisk is to raviner.

lol i think thats what u mean. well i hope every things going well with u guys

and u keep up tha awesome work

[Dalveldrin]

So any of the modders care to sumarize so far what the mod will have beyond the Tyranid Army, like differences from the existing armies in any form that they come. For example, have you decided how building will be handled, and how will the Tyranids feel different when I play them than other races?

[ZoopahFex]

I think its best to do a lot of graphical work first, see what "looks" the best (especially regarding buildings) there are enough of us modelling, so this shouldnt be a problem.

After we decide what looks best, we can add the appropiate game style to it. Since in case of nids, it really needs to fit into the fluff.

I think its best to have one big organic creature as the main base, something that looks like a landed hive-fleet-ship or something, inside would be a Norn Queen (as they are always inside the ships) which produces the lesser creatures. The creature can be expanded for new upgrades, in the same way, listening posts (probably spore chimneys) could expand, so nids dont have a disadvantage at relocating.

Something like that anyway, id say no Cultists whatsoever

[Lord Azrael]

Well, we've been brainstorming ideas, but without the actually game mechanics to play around with it's harder to say "Yes this is how it will be done"

It's entirely possible to come up with something that sounds great but is entirely too difficult to implement. You can read over alot of the building/unit discussions over at http://clanforums.relicnews.com/viewforum.php?f=76


But... some likly inclusions will be Synapse and Biomorphs

Synapse. (May affect both morale and unit cap)

Biomorphs (Some units may get Bio-Morphs and choose them the same way Heavy Weapons are chosen, this allows two squads of Hormaguants to perform in ways other than simply attacking diffrently. Squad morphs could effect speed, synapse, or possibly even make them deal damage when killed)

Buildings are still being discussed becuase the Tyranids have less building fluff than the other races. And becuase their units can look so diffrent from each other, it becomes more difficult to simply "make up" a building and have it fit.

:muffy:

[stryer]

http://scoullos.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/tentacles.jpg

More in the Clan forum - see the above post

Just making sure you havent forgotten us...

Stryer!

[King_Wrex]

hey thats a preaty nice lol