Chaos Marine Health & Accuracy upgrades...

[Mantus]

I've been playing Chaos.

I noticed that the Health Upgrade doesnt do anything for them. Is it supposed to increase their regeneration rate or something?

Also does any one know if the Accuracy upgrade actually works, has there been any tests on this?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers.

[ilia1986]

The Health upgrade increases thier hitpoints. :/

[Mantus]

Ah indeed i was looking at the morale bar :/

SO how much health do they get?

[TotalBiscuit]

Chaos Marines have a health upgrade? :| Where? :/

TB.

[MoleUK]

They added it in 1.3 I think TB, should be in armoury. They were always intended to have one, they just missed out until last patch :).

[RedKiller]

Once I get home I can get you the health of all units, including upgrades.

Out of memory, the (Chaos) Space Marines have 300 health (360 and 434 with the upgrades). Terminators have about 595 and the Obliterators something at 700. Cultists have 80.

Ill post a list later this evening.

[NeoHunter]

Cool.

[TotalBiscuit]

They added it in 1.3 I think TB, should be in armoury. They were always intended to have one, they just missed out until last patch :).

Mmm, tasty.

TB.

[RedKiller]

Ah indeed i was looking at the morale bar :/

SO how much health do they get?

Name - Race - Type - Cap - HP (Upgrades) - Leader HP
Chaos General - Chaos - Commander - 0 - 1305 (1705, 2105) - 0
Sorcerer - Chaos - Commander - 0 - 800 (1100, 1400) - 0
Cultist - Chaos - Infantry - 2 - 80 (96, 115) - 650
Chaos Marine - Chaos - Heavy Infantry - 2 - 300 (360, 432) - 650
Chaos Raptors - Chaos - Heavy Infantry - 2 - 390 (468, 561) - 650
Horror Squad - Chaos - Daemon - 2 - 525 - 0
Possessed Squad - Chaos - Heavy Infantry - 3 - 670 (804, 964) - 0
Obliteration Squad - Chaos - Heavy Infantry - 4 - 705 (846, 1015) - 0
Bloodthirster - Chaos - Daemon - 4 - 7025 - 0
Chaos Rhino - Chaos - Vehicle - 2 - 615 - 0
Defiler - Chaos - Vehicle - 3 - 2320 - 0
Chaos Predator - Chaos - Vehicle - 3 - 4835 - 0

[MoleUK]

Rhino's truly do suck with 650hp's :). I had not realised the hp upgrades affected all the human infantry, thought it was only tac squads. Makes possessed and oblits a fair bit more meaty :D.

[Mantus]

Thank you so much RedKiller.

[ilia1986]

Name - Race - Type - Cap - HP (Upgrades) - Leader HP
Chaos General - Chaos - Commander - 0 - 1305 (1705, 2105) - 0
Sorcerer - Chaos - Commander - 0 - 800 (1100, 1400) - 0
Cultist - Chaos - Infantry - 2 - 80 (96, 115) - 650
Chaos Marine - Chaos - Heavy Infantry - 2 - 300 (360, 432) - 650
Chaos Raptors - Chaos - Heavy Infantry - 2 - 390 (468, 561) - 650
Horror Squad - Chaos - Daemon - 2 - 525 - 0
Possessed Squad - Chaos - Heavy Infantry - 3 - 670 (804, 964) - 0
Obliteration Squad - Chaos - Heavy Infantry - 4 - 705 (846, 1015) - 0
Bloodthirster - Chaos - Daemon - 4 - 7025 - 0
Chaos Rhino - Chaos - Vehicle - 2 - 615 - 0
Defiler - Chaos - Vehicle - 3 - 2320 - 0
Chaos Predator - Chaos - Vehicle - 3 - 4835 - 0


Very very very nice! Mind posting this on other races too? :)

[Mr Orc]

how do you find this information out? as it only displays n/a on the information window for the health of a squad.

[Deathscythe61]

Have a one man squad :P

[Vileblood]

very sweet to know redkiller great work

im interested in a SM vs chaos rine comparison since chaos can get more men into a squad than SM.

[RedKiller]

I do have a full excel table with all stats for all races, including melee and ranged dps, costs and squad sizes. If someone can put it up on a website Ill send it up.

Vileblood: Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines are very like. Both tactical squads have 300 health and Assault Space Marines have 360. So its an advantage for chaos, with more hitpoints at raptors and two more marines in each squad.

Name - Race - Type - Cap - HP (Upgrades) - Leader HP
Force Commander - Space Marine - Commander - 0 - 1500 (1900, 2300) - 0
Librarian - Space Marine - Commander - 0 - 2400 (2700, 3000) - 0
Apothecary - Space Marine - Heavy Infantry - 0 - 200 - 0
Scout Space Marine - Space Marine - Infantry - 1 - 250 (300, 360) - 0
Space Marine Squad - Space Marine - Heavy Infantry - 2 - 300 (360, 432) - 650
Assault Marine Squad - Space Marine - Heavy Infantry - 2 - 360 (432, 518) - 650
Terminator Squad - Space Marine - Heavy Infantry - 4 - 565 (678, 813) - 0
Assault Terminator Squad - Space Marine - Heavy Infantry - 4 - 565 - 0
Rhino - Space Marine - Vehicle - 2 - 500 - 0
Land Speeder - Space Marine - Vehicle - 2 - 1050 - 0
Dreadnought - Space Marine - Vehicle - 2 - 3880 - 0
Hellfire Dreadnought - Space Marine - Vehicle - 2 - 2005 - 0
Whirlwind - Space Marine - Vehicle - 2 - 1000 - 0
Predator - Space Marine - Vehicle - 3 - 4820 - 0
Land Raider - Space Marine - Vehicle - 5 - 4990 - 0

[MattyG]

Slightly off-topic...I really don't see the point in having 2 health upgrades.

Anyone else agree?

[TheDeadlyShoe]

1 upgrade is tier 2, 1 upgrade is tier 3. So disagree. :p

[MattyG]

Wasnt really referring to tiers, just upgrades on top of upgrades that do the exact same thing. Seems unecessary to me.

[UserName]

I do have a full excel table with all stats for all races, including melee and ranged dps, costs and squad sizes. If someone can put it up on a website Ill send it up.

Vileblood: Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines are very like. Both tactical squads have 300 health and Assault Space Marines have 360. So its an advantage for chaos, with more hitpoints at raptors and two more marines in each squad.

Name - Race - Type - Cap - HP (Upgrades) - Leader HP
Force Commander - Space Marine - Commander - 0 - 1500 (1900, 2300) - 0
Librarian - Space Marine - Commander - 0 - 2400 (2700, 3000) - 0
Apothecary - Space Marine - Heavy Infantry - 0 - 200 - 0
Scout Space Marine - Space Marine - Infantry - 1 - 250 (300, 360) - 0
Space Marine Squad - Space Marine - Heavy Infantry - 2 - 300 (360, 432) - 650
Assault Marine Squad - Space Marine - Heavy Infantry - 2 - 360 (432, 518) - 650
Terminator Squad - Space Marine - Heavy Infantry - 4 - 565 (678, 813) - 0
Assault Terminator Squad - Space Marine - Heavy Infantry - 4 - 565 - 0
Rhino - Space Marine - Vehicle - 2 - 500 - 0
Land Speeder - Space Marine - Vehicle - 2 - 1050 - 0
Dreadnought - Space Marine - Vehicle - 2 - 3880 - 0
Hellfire Dreadnought - Space Marine - Vehicle - 2 - 2005 - 0
Whirlwind - Space Marine - Vehicle - 2 - 1000 - 0
Predator - Space Marine - Vehicle - 3 - 4820 - 0
Land Raider - Space Marine - Vehicle - 5 - 4990 - 0



Do you have armor and single shot damages, range, and yeah, basically every thing?

I can see what I can do about the web space.

[RedKiller]

I dropped the file at http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~mama/DoWUnits.rar for anyone. The data is not complete, but might give a first impression about health differences.

But you cant judge units solely based upon their health. For example one land raider easily kills 2 prisms, while one fully upgraded predator cant. I guess thats because of the (hidden) armor value.

Double Post

Forgot to add theres a macro in it I used for formating. Deactivate it, its of no use anymore and I couldnt complete delete it somehow.

Sorry.

[oi you there]

Rhino's truly do suck with 650hp's :). I had not realised the hp upgrades affected all the human infantry, thought it was only tac squads. Makes possessed and oblits a fair bit more meaty :D.
possesed need a seperate upgrade for extra heath dont they?? seeing as all their upgrades have to be made from the sacrificial circle rather than the armoury.

[Crested_Ones]

is there anyway to calculate the accuracy upgrades... as in how much more damage can they weild?

[MoleUK]

No it affects the possessed as well, and also obliterators without needing a seperate upgrade. SM upgrade does the same thing, it affects terms without a seperate upgrade.

[Crested_Ones]

these charts show that Space Marines shouldn't go anywhere without their SNIPERS!

- same health as chaos
- lower avg. damage rate in melee and ranged
- have 2 less possible marines in squad... :(

[MoleUK]

Not every unit is equal crested, assault terms rip up oblits, h2h dreads rip up defilers, and SM assault marines have melta bombs, raptors don't. Cultists are also crap compared to scouts, they have their uses but no-where near as handy as scouts.
SM's can also deep strike their troops in orb relay, which makes them much more mobile and quick to react, also makes a great surprise. Also makes it much easier to reinforce during a fight halfway across the map. This is one of their under-used abilities.
That being said defilers are a great multipurpose unit, possessed are a nice heavy infantry unit when upgraded with morale damaging weapons, oblits are great, the chaos lord is nice in combat and the sorcerer aint bad either *but they need to fix the bugged dark bolt* Horrors I havent used since 1.3, but now you can reinforce them it makes em a pretty nice ranged unit, plus you can teleport em in.


Chaos space marines and Space marines match up pretty even.

[Jerry1978]

how do you reinforce a horror squad? have you tried it?

[MoleUK]

No...unless im mistaken it said in the patch notes they made horrors reinforcable in 1.3, will have to check.

Edit: From the 1.3 patch notes.
Balance Chaos Marines: Increased the Horror's creation and reinforcement times
Presumed this meant they had changed it so you can reinforce horrors when they die, presume squad cap is at 5.

[RedKiller]

The last I tried I couldnt reinforce horrors with 1.3

Since the bugreport form is down (at least I get a timeout when I press submit) I cant report it.

[MoleUK]

Yeah just tested it out, still can't reinforce them. Patch notes make it sound like you should, not sure if they forgot to implement it or whether it was just a typo.
They really should be reinforcable, keep squad size to 5 if they are worried about them being overpowered. They are a nice ranged unit, but fall to pieces when engaged in h2h.

[aasimon]

RedKiller thanks a lot for you spreadsheet. I have a couple o fquestions:

1. Where did you get the data? Did you just experiment (if so what was your methodology)?

2. Where is the Mad Dok? :D

Thanks again!

[Firecrak]

Terminator Squad - Space Marine - Heavy Infantry - 4 - 565 (678, 813) - 0
Assault Terminator Squad - Space Marine - Heavy Infantry - 4 - 565 - 0

Er am I reading this right? The TT end up with 248 more HP than the AT...wtf?

[RedKiller]

RedKiller thanks a lot for you spreadsheet. I have a couple o fquestions:

1. Where did you get the data? Did you just experiment (if so what was your methodology)?

2. Where is the Mad Dok? :D

Thanks again!

The data is partly written down (unit type, dps values, moral, costs) and partly experienced out. The health of units was complicated, because I had to reduce the unit in question to one member (for all units I had to investigate) and then apply the health upgrades.

I have finished the production, reinforce, leader and upgrade times for all space marine squads, but I guess Ill wait for the next patch next for more tests.

Mad Dok? Whats that? :) Guess I need to look back to the orcs. Honestly I dont like them, but Ill put the Mad Dok soon.


Terminator Squad - Space Marine - Heavy Infantry - 4 - 565 (678, 813) - 0
Assault Terminator Squad - Space Marine - Heavy Infantry - 4 - 565 - 0

Er am I reading this right? The TT end up with 248 more HP than the AT...wtf?

Yap, they do. I tried to bug report, but that form is still not working for me. I reported it allready here (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=31776) (thougth only in the forum, not through the bug form).

[Amaron]

No wonder I thought AT's were dying too fast!

Also thats a big eye opener that the health upgrade applies to everything.

I guess that means the precision upgrade applies to all of them too most likely. Very crazy. That explains why possesed marines are so nasty sometimes and not others.

[MoleUK]

Not so sure on whether accuracy affects all of them, it specifies that it only effects tactical marines I think. Know the chaos one does.
As to possessed sometimes being really nasty and not other times is usually down to whether or not they have their ranged upgrade. Their ranged upgrade damages enemy morale severely.

[RedKiller]

As to possessed sometimes being really nasty and not other times is usually down to whether or not they have their ranged upgrade. Their ranged upgrade damages enemy morale severely.

Aye, another test of this evening (I made some):

8 Assault Terminators without any upgrades (which wouldnt affect them anyway) versus 10 Possessed Marines without any upgrade (nor their specials nor health). Result: 6 surviving Assault Terminators, all Possessed Marines dead.

Same fight later with all upgrades done for each side. Result: 9 surviving Possessed Marines (another almost dead), all Assault terminators dead.

Regarding the flame attacks: the Assault Terminators moral broke before the first died.

[Jerry1978]

oh my dear lord redkiller.. no wonder i have been cleaning up with possessed backed by CM... i think we'd see a heck of a lot more chaos players if they knew about possessed chaos marines. all anyone does is play SM coz they think dreads are so l33t.

[Deathscythe61]

That must remain a close-knit secret among true chaos players jerry :P

[Crested_Ones]

true Deathscythe... we most remove the secret from those pansy weaklings!

THE WEAK FIGHT BACK!

[MoleUK]

Yep, tis why possessed tend to never die unless targetted by armour, the enemies morale is always 0 so they never do any damage heh. Dreads will mop em up though.
Have already reported to relic in closed beta that the ranged attack is a tad unbalanced atm, not sure if they read it though.