Deamons

[Fend]

thinking of a mod idea to include more deamons for summoning in the game.

would incorporate...

- deamonettes
- Plauge bearers
- Blue horrors / Flamers of Tzeentch UPG for Horror squad
- Blood Letters
- deamonette Cavlary
- Beast of Nurgle
- Screamers of Tzeentch
- Flesh hounds
- Keeper of Secrets
- Great Unclean one
- Lord of Change

or something along these deamonic content. what i hope actually was a random deamonic summon instead of just horrors. the bigger deamons (lord ones) would add some variety to the choices given in the Deamon pit and would be only 1 max at any time. ie. no blood thirster and the unlean one messing people up round town.

the other lesser Deamons could also be summoned at the pit or somthing. I know this unbalances the game. but what we may do is make a deamon/heavy team with no access to chaos marines only cultists and deamons. the chaos lord would be replaced by maybe a deamon prince. and he would also replace the sorcerer. or something. prolly just a conversion of the existing team to increase a more warp / creature feel instead of the mortal hoards of the undivided. this would also give people a chance to theme their army around their favorite deamons. the only difference would be these deamons would take up more population that the deamons in the mortal chaos army (which dont take any population i think...)

So, If you think its a good idea im always happy to gather up a team to begin. any one interested out there?

[Richtofen]

I think that marines/chaos could have their various sub-races done.

So when you go to select your race, it will have:
Chaos
Chaos: Khorne
Chaos: Slaanesh
Chaos: Tzeentch
Chaos: Nurgle
Space Marines
Space Marines: Dark Angels
Space Marines: Blood Angels
Space Marines: Space Wolves
etc.

But if you are going to add advantages to races, then they need their disadvantages (and almost every unit/building will require at least reskinning). For instance, Khorne would get blood letters instead of horrors, no sorcerer but flesh hounds instead. They would have to sacrifice ranged damage for melee damage and their marines would have BP+CC weapon combo, with no heavy weapon upgrades, but have greater morale. Nurgle troops would be slower, but tougher(more HP), and the horrors replaced with plague bearers, Blood Thirster replaced with Great Unclean One. Slightly different sorcerer powers. Slaanesh would sacrifice hit points for speed (or morale or something?). They would replace the horrors for daemonettes and bloodthirster for keeper of secrets. Sorcerer would have new spells and this race would need an 18+ rating :). Different weapons (blastmaster/etc) replace the current special/heavy weapons. Tzeentch would replace the BT for Lord of Change, the marines would be harder to kill because they are literally walking armour, but cost more and move slower. Sorcerer and Chaos lord would swap spots. But I think that if you are going to do this to chaos, then marines need their going over too.

[Fend]

actually you musnt know the armies that well if you think slannesh if frail...

Khorne would get Berserkers instead of Marines, fearless dudes, nasty in combat ( i mean NASTY as ORCS IN COMBAT! cept armoured) , would have little or no longer ranged guns. no boltguns either. just bolt pistols and stuff. i would take out the sorcerer and Obliterators and add Flesh hounds and instead of horrors add Blood letters.

Nurgle isnt fearless but his troops have 15% more hit points, plauge marines instead of normal marines, in combat they use plague knives which deal poisionous damage - plauge bearers can be summoned instead of horrors use plauge blades and are tougher than normal deamons of their type (they are toughness 4), would have an aura of slow health degeneration of enemys. and i mean slow... summoning the greater deamon of nurgle replaces bloodthirster. many animations includeing the nurglings on him attacking and him vomiting as a short ranged attack or a killing blow move. Beast of nurgle would replace obliterator. tough deamonic beast that soaks up gunfire.

Slannesh units will be completely impartial to morale. would break enemy morale faster and would typically be fashioned around the emporers children from the TT game. deamonettes (agile, fast sequece of attacks impartial to morale) summon in lots of 6 instead of 5. deamonette cavlary would replace the Obliterator. the keeper of secrets would replace Blood thirster. has an aura that effects a degeneration of enemy morale.

Tzeentch will have no lord, instead it will just have the sorcerer. will make Blue horrors to match pink horrors up to the new deamons. when pink horror dies two blue will spawn in its place. Screamers will replace Obliterators. Lord of change will replace Blood thirster. lord of changes abilities will be heavily spell based. various fires of tzeentch.

what you think of this?

[Richtofen]

well if they have an advantage, they must have a disadvantage to balance it out. daemonwise, slaanesh are fast but fragile (mounts/daemonettes for example). Nurgle has the high toughness/wounds while khorne has armour. Yes I know in TT slaanesh isn't weaker but you have to make it so if they have an advantage one way, they need a disadvantage another way, because it is being based off an existing race, it must have advantages/disadvantages that suit the players style of play (khorne & tau quite nicely show the extremes of this). More fragile is just all I could think of in the 2 minutes it took to write that. About the horrors splitting, (im not completly up to speed on newest chaos book) but thats a purely 2nd ed 40k/5th ed fantasy thing.

If you want to look @ god advantages/disadvantages, WFB takes it further and better than 40k. Bloodletters are brilliant in CC (with WS 5, frenzy, S5, 6+ save, 5+ daemonic save), can get command groups but move as fast as most of your other troops 4". Plaugebearers are a lot more tougher (T4) but are less skilled (A1, WS4) but have cloud of flies. Daemonettes move stupidly fast (6") but don't have the toughness of plaguebearers or the strength/armour of the bloodletters, thus making them more fragile, but they make up for this with their high initiative and speed. Horrors aren't all that good (unless u using daemonic legion), they are as fragile as daemonettes, without the speed but can cast spells and have the option of flamers.
In 40k, daemons are a bit more similar to eachother IMO.

So yeah, if you are going to give them some advantages, then they need disadvantages to offset it.:)

The Khorne one is dead easy, full CC with limited ranged/heavy support. just maybe give normal troops melta bombs instead of frag grenades?


One thing I would love to see in a mod is a tooled up chaos lord, actually make him the ancient chaos infused being he is supposed to be, but, if he breaks, gets turned into a chaos spawn :)

[Dockham]

I think it'd be cool to make each Marine chapter have their own units like the Dark Angel Ravenwing and Deathwing units.

Or the Blood Angel Baal Predator (nasty) and their Death Company.

Space Wolves 13th Company stuff.

It'd be cool.

Chaos specifics would be awesome too.

[Warcrier]

I think it would be sweet if you started out as undivided but your commander could choose his mark as an upgrade and then tht would change his entire army.
So if my Lord chose Nurgle then i would get Plague Zombies instead of cultists, and nurglings and plaguebearers and the such. Plague marines would be the normal chaos marines and vehicles would get mark specific upgrades, such as plague censers and the such...
It would add alot of depth to the race, but would be a big project...

Double Post

Also, as I forgot to add this b4, Roicto is thinking of Demons in fantasy, Daemons are different in 40k...
DoW is 40k afterall...

[Richtofen]

but the basic principal of what they are geared towards is the same. Daemons in fantasy are different in that they better show the aspects and the way their god likes to fight. 40k and fantasy may have differing rules but what chaos is, what each power is, how the gods' followers fight is exactly the same. Remember, the game is based mainly on the fluff and not the rules.

Double Post

Another thing. If you want to make a balanced mod, each unit needs advantages and disadvantages (as i've said) but also, no infantry unit should be unbreakable, that is a HUGE advantage. Remember, in TT, breaking means running away but in DoW, breaking means a while heap of different things. Units such as khorne berserkers should have more morale and probably more morale defense but they shouldn't be unbreakable, that makes flamers/snipers/whole host of abilities useless. But yeah, its ur mod so i guess you can do what you want, just giving constructive criticism.

[Fend]

to warcrier - love the plague zombies idea

to richtofen - you seem to have your head screwed on. i wanna balance it out, but at the same time i want to make it cool. like you know, cool cool, like those deamonettes and their ability to mess up enemy morale is cool but they get shot to shit by heavy weapons. Or WOW blood letters seem so uber, pity their melee attack is kinda slow (btw, khorne doesnt have armour, just aditional attacks caused by frenzy). or , wow. plague bearers are nasty to get close to because of that aura but theyre kinda slowish ( not slowish to a point where they can get shot to shit and never catch the bad guys, but slow to a point where all their relflexes, lopeing, and stuff is notably inferior to a blood letter but made up for by their nasty aura and clouds of flys (that make em kinda tough to shoot up). horrors on the other hand are boring in this, so i was thinking of bringing back the split. its still 40k after all. model splits, goes and eats thingys. it would make em more interesting. difference you might say? lets make it so blue horrors cant shoot ;) or can but its weak. they kindas turn from shooty useful to bog down the enemy with gibbering minions O_o. or sumnthenk.

snipers still kick ass richtofen , and you cant pin them in 40k anyway. flamers dont really work well on marines anyway and just like in the game, morale and leadership effecting abilities Do have their grey areas.

[Richtofen]

you seem to have your head screwed on

Hope so anyway.


to richtofen - you seem to have your head screwed on. i wanna balance it out, but at the same time i want to make it cool. like you know, cool cool, like those deamonettes and their ability to mess up enemy morale is cool but they get shot to shit by heavy weapons. Or WOW blood letters seem so uber, pity their melee attack is kinda slow (btw, khorne doesnt have armour, just aditional attacks caused by frenzy). or , wow. plague bearers are nasty to get close to because of that aura but theyre kinda slowish ( not slowish to a point where they can get shot to shit and never catch the bad guys, but slow to a point where all their relflexes, lopeing, and stuff is notably inferior to a blood letter but made up for by their nasty aura and clouds of flys (that make em kinda tough to shoot up). horrors on the other hand are boring in this, so i was thinking of bringing back the split. its still 40k after all. model splits, goes and eats thingys. it would make em more interesting. difference you might say? lets make it so blue horrors cant shoot or can but its weak. they kindas turn from shooty useful to bog down the enemy with gibbering minions O_o. or sumnthenk.

Exactly! But I don't know about the unbreakable thing still. Are possessed unbreakable in TT cause from what I remember they can be broken in DoW. I think everything but BT/Avatar can be broken.

[Talos]

i would help just email me or pm

[Lord Dante]

why play a standard chaos amry?
This is why u need unit limitations and big advantages/disadvantages for these new units. but yeah im all for it.

[ThrowN]

I like Fend's ideas quite a lot even those fearless units
You could just balance it out with the cost of the units, the time it takes to build them,etc.

The four cults would therefore have really low numbers, which would give them a huge strategic disadvantage, especially in regard of holding captured points...

How do you guys like the idea of some kind of "the dark gods"-mod? since all four armies would only need new heads, weapons and some demons it should be relatively easy to finish.

Any suggestions?

[Richtofen]

why play a standard chaos amry?
This is why u need unit limitations and big advantages/disadvantages for these new units. but yeah im all for it.

exactly. If one is clearly better than the other (their disadvantage do not outweigh the advantages) then no one will play the others.

[Aajz Solari]

sounds pretty cool , i hope that this mod makes it to life and doesnt end up like the usual " lets make a mod but i dont know how could you help me" and dies#

also i'd like to see the emperors children in the game :p

sonic weapons w00t :p

[Chaos_Smurf]

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.... deamonettes *drools* *drools*
Good ideas though

[Rollnon20s]

any one working on this yet

[Rhad]

In order to make chaos cults, some units must be changed. When you play with Khorne (for example) you can´t field obliterators, rapaxs... nothing that can´t have the mark of the god you have chosen, so I think it would be a good idea to have chaos terminators with each chaos cult. You only have to take the ones from the marines and add spikes to them. It would make a real kick ass squad :D . It would also be a good idea to have the squad limit the same as the sacred number of each god (8 for khorne...) making the cost of a champion the same as a normal marine. What do you think?

Have I said that i play World Eaters? :beer:

[Rhad]

Any intentions on making a daemonic prince?

[Dalveldrin]

Cults could be a somewhat big undertaking. Personally I would love to see Daemonettes and Nurglings, just to allow people to field at least one daemon from all the gods.

[DarthVaygr]

Perhaps, just as a start, edit the standard Chaos army by adding just 1 demon from each cult, and we already have 2 cults, so just add two more, and it would be a nice, small, start. I like the idea. And, remember, don't go easy on the demonettes :) *male-biased statement* *hides*

[Rhad]

Is there someone making chaos cult mod already?

[Fend]

i had a busy month of school but coming up this holidays ill see if i can rally together a team. im currently working on another team for a mod for another game! (battlefield 40k) So im kinda occupied. but i could still manage / run a team and moderate our own forum.

Talos ill add you to my msn when i get home. anyone else if you wanna join as a casual helper Im all for it.

I like the idea that the four chaos Cults would have limited numbers and would have trouble holding points on the map. to be effective the mobs would have to be big but the problem with them would be that they simply wouldnt have enough demon packs to spread around. it would make them a chalanging team to play but the advantage is obvious, all the units are superior to almost all other infantry units in the game and are even a match for the strongest infantry in the game. A whole army of elite deamonic infantry, albeit small and with the ability to summon in relic units faster than any other teams relic unit, It would be a catch twenty two advantage / dissadvantage situation.

[DarthVaygr]

Yeah......horrors......real superior......but anyway, sounds good. How will we make the races different? We need race sketches!

[McBanjo]

Hey guys what you are doing I think is GREAT. I collect nurgle as an army (as few people do) and I was disappointed when they didn't include the Great Unclean One in the Chaos or any plague bearers or anything to do with nurgle or other chaos sides except Khorne. I hope you do a good job.

[Shakrith]

Bloodletters actually do have 3+ armour saves.

Anyway, it seems alright, but how will you do the daemonettes? Artful poses only go so far you know.

[Cheexsta]

I've started working on the Khorne side of things, I didn't notice this thread before. I'd be more than happy to throw my efforts into this mod (as both standalone and as a grouped-together one).

Link is here. (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=40106) I'm hoping to get all the units done and testing to start soon.