Space Hulk Mod!

[Ar-Bee]

i'm sure that DOW could be modded to have a RTS prespective on the old Space Hulk game! it would be awesome!


the only problem is, i have no idea how to code, design and such, but i guess i could design maps and such... i think i still have the old space hulk manual somewhere!!!

but yeah that would be awesome if someone could develop something from this!


please msg if your interested! it could be a mad revival!!!!

[Lord Dante]

I expect with a map maker utility, that i expect will ship with the game. u could mod a space hulk with relative ease.

[Thaatu]

It'd be great if someone would make a SH mod, but I can't really help with that...

[ForrestFox]

hm, my personal opinion is that an RTS wouldnt work that great with SH..
I hated the part in command and conquer (or any other RTS-game) where you have to run inside a base with only a few men and head here and there to do this and that.

And I'm not sure if it would work with having bases to build in SH, maybe your'e thinking that the map would start with a picked men and would not be able to build or gather resources for more men?

I'd like the idea if they would make a mod that would resemble the original Space Hulk though :)
(By the way, the mod Alien Swarm to Unreal Tournament 2004 could be an excellent inspiration)

[Ar-Bee]

yeah forrest!!! sort of like alien swarm

[dms2]

The original space hulk is a classic, i'm sure with a bit of effort you could make a great version with DoW.

All the turned based versions of Spacehulk i've seen on computers are pretty ugly - one using the DoW engine would be very cool ;-)

[Thaatu]

All it needs are the units and good mission editing tools.

Genestealers will hopefully come with the Tyranid mod. All we need are SP and MP missions.. It all comes down to the mission editor.

[ralphthe2nd]

would you be willing to map all the levels used in space hulk.
from the origionals to the white dwarf issues? :argh:

[Skewerd]

this sounds like it'd make a great trigger based map :D, but then I begin to think we'll get something like WC3's world editor *dreams*
(If it did, i'd be so in this project :D)

[jlgaumont]

That would be very nice indeed!

I think I would like to give it a try... :beer:

[Lord Dante]

yeah its gonna have to be a trigger based map with fixed units - and u could take some basis for missions from the orignal SH (Orginal - there is only one version, err)

If u had an editor as good as WC3 it would be very easy...

[ZzGashi]

space hulk takes place inside a huge ship right? if it does than your going to need some good terrainers inorder to do it since theres only like 2 tile sets in the game (but the mp map quatra seems to be volcanic) hmm...

[Lord Dante]

Its easier to make then a standard map - your just texturing straight walls and floors with basic textures. not making an natural enviroment with rubble and debris etc...

[cshank4]

Its easier to make then a standard map - your just texturing straight walls and floors with basic textures. not making an natural enviroment with rubble and debris etc...


You, my friend, have never attempted to make an indoor texture before, have you? There's a lot more to it then youd ever imagine >.<

[dms2]

and u could take some basis for missions from the orignal SH (Orginal - there is only one version, err)



Start old git mode

No, there were two versions of Space Hulk.

The original, "better" ;-) version had 2 expansion sets (Deathwing & Genestealer) and also a book expansion (Space Hulk Campaign) plus of course stuff from White Dwarf.

The second version, afaik, only ever had a short life and never had any expansions.

I never played version 2, off the top of my head the most annoying difference was the flamer being changed in version 2 to a more arcade spraying flame thrower...

[Skewerd]

Well, I can't wait to see what's coming in terms or mission/scenario editting, but howabout we see who's really concrete about this idea? Maybe we can make this a reality and make the first DOW custom map out there :D

[TheKito]

Start old git mode

No, there were two versions of Space Hulk.

The original, "better" ;-) version had 2 expansion sets (Deathwing & Genestealer) and also a book expansion (Space Hulk Campaign) plus of course stuff from White Dwarf.

The second version, afaik, only ever had a short life and never had any expansions.

I never played version 2, off the top of my head the most annoying difference was the flamer being changed in version 2 to a more arcade spraying flame thrower...

Yay, another hard core Space Hulk fan! I have all the rules ever printed for first edition in a huge notebook. I also have two full sets of Space Hulk Tiles, 1 set of Deathwing Tiles, 1 set of Genestealer Tiles, and a set of second edition tiles. I do like to shoot some stealers!

[Lord Dante]

ah yes sorry my mistake. I too have SH,DW and genestealer. about 3 box sets as i bought my mates games for £20.

Actually i bought the entire SPace wolf model range for £20 of the same lad. yes thats right, all chractrers, Bjorn, long fangs,blood claws,wolf gaurd,grey hunters... all for £20... can u imagine!

those were the days!

[dms2]

TheKito

I love to shoot stealers too, problem is that with the Space Hulk rules, it always seemed a lot easier for the genestealers to carry the day ;-(

I was a devoted teenage Gamesworkshop fan (sounds like a bad film) for many a year, and every one of their products is now mothballed (though I havent brought myself to ebay 'em) apart from my Space Hulk stuff and the minatures I painted... somehow Space Hulk had what it takes ;-)

[Mythus90]

well if you can do it in star craft, i'm sure this will be just as good

[Abyss]

how would structersfit in a Space hulk Like a chapel?

[MasterSpartan]

Well, my first introduction to Warhammer 40,000 was Space Hulk: Vengeance of the Blood Angels on 3DO. I absolutely loved the game, and still do. It was a combination of FPS and RTS and played excellently well, and it features my favorite creature of all time in the WH40K universe, the Genestealers. Those were quite the experience playing all those years ago, especially in hand to hand combat (I can take 'em down %90 of the time in hand to hand...Rarely ever lose) I never had the benefit of playing the PC Space Hulk which is supposedly two years older than VotBA. I very much liked the story, and the game struck me so well, when I heard of Dawn of War I couldn't help but check it out, and I truly adore this game. Ahh, Terminators, such great warriors. I noticed there are some differences in the Chaos in the game, the CSM armor seems quite different than traditional CSM armor (Referring to Space Hulk). I was always hoping for a re-make of the game, or perhaps a modification for some FPS of the future (Halo might work). I managed to purchase SH: VotBA brand new factory sealed this year about three months ago off of Ebay, imagine the luck in that. I would love more than anything to see a VotBA modification some day for this game, even if you can't get the FPS action. As for Dawn of War, I would've liked to see more Terminator weapon variants, such as the Power Sword, Chainarm, and Lightning Claws, though the Thunder Hammer and Storm shield is one of my favorites. Power to those who wish to resurrect the legacy of this great game.

[Khruschev]

how would structersfit in a Space hulk Like a chapel?

I may have missed the point but if the idea is to recreate the board game space hulk there won't be any structures, just individual terminators stalking around covering each other's backs.

As for if there are just space hulk maps for regular DoW play... that could be explained somehow I'm sure. Like the buildings land on the surface of the space hulk or something and then you have to move your men inside through a door.

Well for a while Vengeance of the Blood Angels could be found free online but it looks like GW told all the abandonware sites I know to drop it. Oh well.

[Tren2100]

i think that one thing is choosing to keep the squad system or to turn it into everyones a hero is the first thing to decide. Keeping in mind that all heroes would mean one lot and thats it while the other may leave the ability to get reinforcements(suggestion would be a building that teleports in more think about it). having some kind of vents to give the tyrans extra roaming space would also be good leaving the termis trap in corridorsand small rooms...cool.

[Rollnon20s]

Space hulk is a shooting game right

[ANARCHY666]

i also have all the books and manuals and even a campaign book for space hulk inluding genestealers and deathwing expansion

so there are more then enough things (maps scenarios etc) to be copied

the thing is it's hard to get a good map and good balance in the game going

[Folaka]

Space hulk is a shooting game right
Gah, No no no and no, well yes sort of.

Space Hulk is a board game/suplement/expansion thingy released by GW a while ago (1sted Space Hulk > 2nd Ed by far. Cloud Runners last stand :p) and was great fun.

Space Hulk Vengance of the blood angels, and Space Hulk, where both computergames based on the Space Hulk game.

I doubt though that a mod for DoW would get the full feel of Space Hulk unless you're able to put ammo into it, as nothing says space hulk as running out of ammo as a stealer comes flying down a coridor to rip you're termie sarge to shreads :p.

[Billybones]

Funny, I just posted in the sticky mods thread that I plan on doing a Space Hulk mod, and then I see this thread...damn, thought I was the only one who remembered that game........

Well, nonetheless, it is good to see I am not the only one interested in this idea, and I really think it should not be too difficult to do as far as the initial maps and such go, but I expect that for singleplayer missions a LOT of scripted/triggered stuff will be needed, which, to some extent could make game play rather predictable....

To me though morale and reenforcements are the make break point in this mod, but fortunately DOW already has similar functions in place, such as the required Relic in order to be able to call in Terminators etc etc, so this should also pose no big problems...of course, there will be no buildings/resource/energy requirements for this mod, but I think a challenge mode, sort of like how the Clans in Battletech bid for a mission might be interesting to play with, so to speak choosing your forces and trying to stay as low as possible and still complete the mission ("My Liege, I and my squad of loyal terminators alone can do the job") or something along this vein (with of course the ability IF certain strategic points are taken to be able to call in more support, BUT at the cost of Prestige/Points)


Well, anyways, that is my take on it, IMO it will be more of a minimod than a full mod, and should not be all that hard to do.

[HotCod]

actaly i was thinking about this and other "indoor" maps... i don't think they will work right.... simply becuse you can shoot throw walls, and there no way to stop the line of sight not passing throw walls, so basicly unless you can fix that, the whole idea is pointless

[Billybones]

Oh, I am quite sure there is a way to limit visibility, otherwise it would be impossible to set "ambushes"....and I just can't imagine Relic not using such a function in the game. Besides, I am sure we will be able to see what is possible once we have the full version of the game....wait and see.

[HotCod]

true true, i don't mean there isn't a limit to visablity... what i mean is that in the game its "circle" that isn't dependent on the tarain its self (basicly you if you put a unit at the side of a building near the conor i belive his visablity alows you to see around the other side, but i'm not complety sure i'll have to test) and i blive its becuse of the same problem as the "hit test" that is to hard to do so people can fire throw walls... so basicly unless you limit an units fild of viwe to a very small space aroudn its sell and make all the wall quite thick then i'm not sure it could work...

but yes, have to wait for the game really :)

[zafo]

actaly i was thinking about this and other "indoor" maps... i don't think they will work right.... simply becuse you can shoot throw walls, and there no way to stop the line of sight not passing throw walls, so basicly unless you can fix that, the whole idea is pointless

GameData["obey_terrain_line_of_sight"] = true <-- this makes units NOT shoot through terrain. Pretty neat feature, I must say, although I can only guess at the horrendous ammounts of CPU time this will take in an all out fight. Nice to have anyway

Here you go thanx to theBlind

[HotCod]

ah well i gusse in small scripted maps like this demo would be that would't be such a cpu hog as it would be in an all out scearmish map

[Ranzarok]

Hello all..new here to the forums and enjoying DoW.
I found this thread interesting as I have always been interested in doing a SH MOD. I am a 3d modeler and animator and could contribute in that aspect. I have played SH since it's release and am a big fan.
At one point I was set to try and start a MOD team using the Fallout Tactics engine, but having no knowledge of code or scripting, I had to give it up.
So if anyone decides to give it a whirl, please let me know, I would love to help.

[zafo]

Hey Ranzarok i'm sure if you start knocking out models the rest will follow :)

"If you model them, they will come"

[Shougeki]

heh heh

Ive actually already started on this mod, thinkin nobody else was doing it......

Here is my takes, and what id liek to see.

Ive already recreated all the terminator units with starting number 1, and max reinforcemnets =1. This is to keep the individual balance of SH that was there. The SM player HAS to micromanage, and has to do it well.
The units are, Sergeant, marine, Marine w HF, Marine w AC. Ive also created the units for TH+SS and the LC.

Two new races for the Mod. Stealers and Terms.
Stealers spawn from listening posts (new buildings).
Terms have to destroy these listening posts to stop the stealers spawning from there (kinda like the "off areas" on the SH board). terms can capture these Strategic Points to give them selves resources ect, that may or may not allow them reinforcements from THEIR STARTING POSITION. Thats a matter of balance.

The Stats may have to be reworked for the two armies, rather than the terms that are in the game, as they are well hard. however i do believe that the morale issues will be key ect. Stealers got blown away by terms, but the terms got SLAUGHTERED in combat, bar the sergeant, who was ok.

Its all a matter of balace, but i reckon that the term units (which ive started with due to no modding tools) HAVE to be heros to keep the idea of managing em in there.

Im still trowing ideas around in my head while working on it, but if anyone is interested or wants me to help them, send me a pm...

Brian

[masamune2004]

hey, I love 2nd edition! Stop knocking it! :cranky:

[Ranzarok]

Shougeki, sounds like a good start. Let me know if I can help. I am no programmer..mainly art.
I just might take zafo's advice and start building terminators and stealers and see if I can get some folks to sign on after that. :)

[Shougeki]

Well im no good at 3D modelling or animation, but a mate is about to start giving me lessons (i work a job where i do next to nothing so i get to learn this stuff)

Send me a pm....

[zafo]

Just need a concept artist now and you should be ok till the SDK is released

[cassa]

Why not have 2 terminators per squad so that you have a chance of keeping some terminators, rather than when 1 dies, they are gone for good, depending on your reinforcement plan

[Shougeki]

Because the whole idea of the space hulk game was marines are precious. Having two in a squad means that both those get the same orders ect. That wasn the way it worked :)

Also IF the marine player is allowed re-inforcements, they will come from WAY back in their starting area, and will cost an awful lot.

B

[Billybones]

One other thing that has been taken care of is the fact that in the singleplayer campaign of DoW there are missions with doors, one has to be held for a time frame, the other destroyed, so there are definite triggers which can be set for doors....the LOS info is a big help too, see, I told you all that relic would not forget something as needed as that!!! :bandit:

[Dreads]

i found the first person shooter versions of space hulk not up to par for my taste since i always played the table top version (1st ed. with deathwing and genestealer, all white dwarf cut outs and extra rules and blisters etc and campaing book, 2nd edition tiles might have looked a bit better but the rules left desiring for my taste, really sucked like hell to my opinion)

[Shougeki]

I have all the stuff, maps rules and missions from both first ed and second ed on my computer here.

I also found a single player java version of the board game (you play vs the comp) which is good for a laugh.

anyways my work load has just started to ease off so expect some news on this in the enxt few days....

B

[ImagoX]

Hey guys... first time poster here but LONG time WH40k fan (I bought the first edition of the 40k “Rogue Trader” rules the day they came out if that gives you any indication of how long I've been a 40k player)...

I love this idea, and it was the very first thing that I thought of for a "must have" mod when I first played DoW, however, I don't think RECREATING Space Hulk (first or second edition) is going to work, and here's why:

1) As has been stated previously, many of the missions that made Space Hulk satisfying and different are just not going to translate well into RTS. Many of the missions, if you will recall, involved getting a flamer hit into a certain room, or holding a position for a set number of turns, sacrificing Terminators as needed for the overall strategy. Most of the time, streaks of luck notwithstanding, if the Marine player achieved victory it was with the last model they had, with all Command Points spent. I just don't see how this will translate into RTS.

2) The other thing that made Hulk work was the concept of the blip. You had no idea how many Stealers were behind that blip, one, two or three, and so it always kept you on your toes. Since DoW has no way to do this (other than, perhaps, the blinkies used in the current game for Strategic Points), much of the building tension that made Hulk unique will be lost.

3) Last, the turn-based origin if the TT game made tactics such as setting Overwatch (with its withering fire but chance of jamming) a positive MUST. Again, in a RT environment, I don't see how games will be anything but a mad dash to the objective point (which, let's face it, the Stealers should ALWAYS win), ESPECIALLY if you recreate the actual map layouts from the TT game. Those maps depended on the Marine establishing corridors of Overwatch fire, setting choke points with well-placed Flamer hits, etc. which I just don't see happening in a RT game.

My solution?

Since I love all things Space Hulk (I have 4 sets of the 1st Edition and 2 of Second-- all hail Yard Sales!!), I'd love nothing better than to see this mod made, but not as a recreation of Space Hulk, but rather a stand-alone mod that captures the claustrophobia and tension of that game in an appropriate RTS environment. WHat I'm imagining is something like:

• Marines start with 1 or 2 squads of Terminators as per the TT game.

• They have specific objectives that can be achieved only through the sacrifice of models along the way.

• Maps are larger than Space Hulk maps, with many twisting corridors. Ideal would be a RANDOM TILE GENERATOR that would make every map new and fresh. Marines have basically PERMANENT fog-of-war, which is only pushed back a ways around the models. (a radius-- everything outside of it is pitch black). Marine units do NOT need to keep squad cohesion (obviously). Stealer players can see the entire map with no fog or darkness. They get respawns of 1-2-or 3 Stealers every interval (20 seconds? 30? This will need to be balanced heavily, but the goal would be for the Stealer to have a good sized force by the tiome the marine is about halfway to their objective). After a certain time period, Stealers can be spawned BEHIND the Marine player (as in the TT game).

• Overwatch can be set on a per-model basis (so you can set Brother Lucius on Overwatch and leave him to cover your rear). Jam clears are automatic with a return to O-watch after. Close Combat drops O-watch and turns it back on in the unlikely event that a Marine survives.

• Close combat with Stealers is a 10-second affair, at the end of which the Terminator should be killed 70-80% of the time. This might need balancing in an actual RT environment, but the penalty for allowing a Stealer into your face should be pretty heinous.

• Allow for Heavy Weapons, Librarians, Chaos Marines, Hybrids, etc. in stand-alone modules that would expand the Mod-- make the basic MOD Stealer Purestrains and the Terminators from the basic game ONLY (so Terminator, Librarian, Captain, Assault Cannon and Flamer only for Marines). Each weapon has a mission goal (flame the brood chamber, Librarian must psychically cleanse a chaos alter, Assault Cannon must hold a long corridor for x-minutes, etc.

• Implement AMMO, yes. This is especially needed for Flamers. How you tell a flamer unit to NOT attack is problematic, especially when you factor in LOS limits that the Hulk game imposed that are nonexistent in the RTS game.

Well, I didn't mean for that to be so long, but there you go. Hope you MOD-Gods find something useful in there...

[KingNic]

Origional:
http://img44.exs.cx/img44/6451/room21.th.jpg (http://img44.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img44&image=room21.jpg)

Smooth render:
http://img42.exs.cx/img42/9421/room36.th.jpg (http://img42.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img42&image=room36.jpg)

Some textures thrown on:
http://img44.exs.cx/img44/8153/room22.th.jpg (http://img44.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img44&image=room22.jpg)

Currently weighs in at 879 triangles.

[Mister_Cope]

Space hulk? interesting.

Space CRUSADE? better. ;)

[disclaimer : maybe not as a game, but as a mod, the more varied style would interest me, at least, more]

[edorien]

Quote -- Space CRUSADE? better

From what i remember of space crusade, it amounted to space hulk with a greater variety of enemies ( gretchin, ork, genestealer, chaos SM and a lord, androids (necrons), dreadnaughts) as well as those various powers, and blips as in HULK, did i miss anything. With the players, chosing between imperial fists, blood angels, ultramarines, and the eldar, as well as the ability to deploy tarantulas (turrets)

Really, I don't believe that either would work well as a mode for DOW, without a very talented team, and highly flexible tools (not certain that what relic release will be suitable)

For either it may be an idea to do something similar to what's being done to HEROQUEST (see below link) instead, although that requires more programming knowledge
http://hq2.netflowdevelopments.com/index.html

[Woodrow]

Interesting that someone is taking on one of my all time favorite boardgames (heroquest), though writing it in an entire new engine is not what these boards are about. As such, I've come to offer a quick snippet on the subject of ammo.

While going through the BFG design drafts I came across a possible idea on how to do limited ammunition. Instead of morale (I don't know how useful morale is for SH as I've never played it. but with single man units it sounds like they'll be dead whether they run or not from close combat so it wouldn't really matter if they didn't run anyway) what if you changed it so that you use the morale bar for ammunition? Every time the unit fires the weapon, see if you can get it to deduct from the unit's total morale. Remove auto morale regeneration also so they don't magically get more "ammo". The last trick would then involve having them stop firing but not run away when they do indeed run out of ammo.

Anyhow, I haven't attempted any of this yet, just a theory. But thought it might help unless someone has a thought on how to build limited ammo amounts into units another way (as I'm also looking for ways to do that)

[JamieDOWFiles]

Excallent Models of that room! I've posted some news about this at DOWFiles.com! :)

[KingNic]

Jamie, I aint on the team or anything, and the team certainly aint me :) Just made that and figured you guys might like it. I'm an FPS level designer, so this sorta level design is pretty easy for me.

Right this is my idea on the gameplay:

The level designers create a set Hulk, and then define start points and objectives. The Marines start with x squads of terminators at the start points, and every 10 seconds or so, the genestealer player gets a single squad with a random amount of stealers in it. The players move/issue orders in the exact same was as regular Dawn Of War, but the Marines have a very limited sight. The genestealer player can see the entire map. Marines do get "blips" which are small sprites generated from the exact centre of each genestealer squad.

Dunno how possible this is with Dawn of war modding, but that's what I would hope for in a Space Hulk mod.

As for the maps, from what I can determine from the demo, you start out with flat terrain and you can import various meshes to form the details. I would hope that it would be possible to create a library of rooms/corridors and the level designer can lay out the maps in the same way as the Space hulk board game. I would prefer it however, if the level designer could have various floor tiles and wall sections and build each room individually rather than prefabbed rooms, although this may not be possible if there are any mesh restraints.

[Kendo]

Thats really lookin nice so far

[JamieDOWFiles]

Oh. me bad :)

[Shougeki]

Well we are gonna have to wait till the mod tools come out before we can really decide on which way we are going to go with this....

Kingnic - those rooms look really nice - you interested in doing some of the tilesets for the mod?

[Dreads]

map thingies look great
however i should warn you
i think it'll be hard if not impossible to import these into a DoW map unless you plan to rewrite a bit of engine
since DoW only allows heights and not overlapping things
i think it would be best if you indeed make soms room and corridors
then when editing the height map you can import some old bits and thus create a map

for pipes and stuff i think you should really create an OBJECT and put that in a room

hope you get what i mean

[Ranzarok]

Man, this thread has been dead for a while.
Of course, I have been gone from the board for a while as well.

Anyone still interested in this idea?

[Nevin]

Nice model you have there of the interior of a ship.

[BrSgt_Burns]

Scarcow and team gave it a go, but the 1.3 patch really screwed up the code. SC is still working on it but its slow going. If you haven't upgraded to 1.3 and have 1.2, go to their web site and give it a go - http://spacehulk.i8.com/

I didn't notice that room before by KingNic! Thats very cool! You should be on the space hulk team :)

[Ranzarok]

Thanks.
I'll go check it out.