Could gork and mork beat C'tan(star gods)

[ironcurtain]

Now gork and mork are very strong and I know that they laugh at the chaos gods but are they strong enough to even beat the star gods?

How strong are the c'tan anyways?

[Tegadil]

The C'Tan are pretty strong (Outsider being the strongest, I would assume) but warp energy itself is inimical to them. In a one on one (read: no anti-warp devices) matchup of a C'Tan versus a warp god, I think the god would win.

[TS_ahriman]

I don't know if Gork and Mork are the same type of God like a C'Tan is. C'Tan go around showing just how Godly they really are (especially in recon missions), whereas Gork and Mork never really manifest their powers in a noticable way. There's too little fluff on them to figure out if they could even fight the C'Tan.

[Dimension]

question is if they would even want to. they're the manifestations of the ork emotions, and as such don't try to corrupt/influence the materium like the chaos gods do. not that i'm aware of anyways. since they don't actually push a great deal of power into the materium (again, as far as i'm aware), things wouldn't really change for them if the C'Tan managed to seperate the materium and immaterium.

Unless the seperation would mean that no souls and emotions pass over to the warp anymore. what would happen in that case? would the materium be overrun with ghosts?

either way, whether the C'Tan and necron would win versus the might of orks everywhere (I suspect necron activities arising all over the galaxy would result in one MOTHER of a Waaaagh) is debatable. its not out of question, just debatable. who knows how many Necrons there really are? who knows how many orks there really are?

On a sidenote, just because something is powerful doesn't mean it can't be beaten. Wasn't the Outsider driven mad by the relatively weak Laughing God?

[Paradise]

It depends, Gork and Mork is probaly stronger, but they're powerful in a different way. All ork machinery works because they believe it works. They think red things go faster, hence they go faster. The power of Gork and Mork is the collective mind power of orks. For the moment Gork and Mork is more powerful, but remember, the C'tan has been weakened greatly, since they have slept for a very long time, especially the Nightbringer has been weakened. They have absorbed thousands of stars, and consumed more races than we can even think of. They will keep growing stronger, as their necrons kill.

The laughing god tricked the Outsider into eating it's fellow C'tan. If it were not for the laughing god, Eldar probaly wouldn't live today. It has probaly eaten 100 other c'tan, hence it is incredibly powerful, but it uses it's powers to make a dyson sphere, that I guess will be used to close the warp.

[Sarcastic Jedi]

gork and mork don't have any avatars we know off, and it's entirely possible they don't even exist, But the incredible will of the orks make they appear real.

[Athair]

Due to the weakness of the C'tan, Gork and Mork would kick their Star God butts! In pure strength, its probably about the same (2 C'tan per Gork/Mork). :fight: Gork and Mork might challenge them to a fight in the future, but who knows...

[ironcurtain]

GO GORK AND MORK! :smash:

I bet there is going to be a war with orks and necrons to see who gets land. Orks are all over the galaxy and still growing( I believe in the gorka morka writing it stated that a craft exploring the galaxy which is still going only heard orks sounds, so there everywhere) so I bet gork and mork will remain powerful. It would be an interesting war and I hope the orks win. I thinks theres also a good chance that chaos would even supply weapons to orks in such a war because they want to be the dominant evil power.

BTW is there any fluff on gorks club? :vikingb: Or is it just a plain club of ass kicking

[Thalasion]

Gork and/or Mork would shit all over all the c'tan that have ever or will ever existed, all at once. The reson for this is that warp gods are powered by thoughts and emotions, so khorne is the most powerfull chaos god because allot of people feel rage, anger, and the all round will to kill others, now the ork gods do things a bit differently, where chaos needs things to activly feel one emotion gork and mork get power from orks(grots, snotlings, squigs) just being orky, and as the orks are the biggest race in the galaxy(they could have even spread to other galaxys) that makes gork and mork the most powerfull things in the known universe, its just they never use there power because there to busy squabaling with each other.

[Sarcastic Jedi]

like I said b4, Gork and Mork might not actually "exist" they are the result of billions of orks all thinking they do. And all orks have innard psychic abilities.

I.E. If an ork completely believes that painting red on a vehicle will make it go faster... it will go faster. If they truely believed that his randomly constructed "gun" is the fastest, best shoota then it is. Orks are interesting creatures.

[TS_ahriman]

If you dip a grot in red paint, it runs faster.

[Dimension]

if the orks will something into existence, how does that make it less "real" than a chaos god? chaos gods (and other warp entities) are not created in a much different manner, you know. they're sentient accumulations of certain emotions or mindsets, either bundled together, or accumulated around a soul.

gork and mork, or something very similar to them, MUST exist. especially since orks are by and large more psychic than the average human.

[Sir Guppy]

well when a ctan goes into his form, and they become clad in metal they are much less powerful, in their pure forms they are immensly more powerful, they can suck the life out of stars, rip apart planets and so on. the only reason i guess they dont this is that they still need to kill other living things personally to gain the energy. i guess riping apart planets doesnt quite ful fil this. altho i think it would be funny for a player to deploy his army and then the necron player declaring that he had just decided to destory the whole planet.

but seeing as gork and mork are images in the warp, as such they cant leave without loosing power, much as deamons do. but the ctan cant enter the warp as it kills them. but if you get them both into a situation where they can both fight at the top of their abilites, i reckon gork and mork would win (i play necrons by the way) but because gork and mork are powered by the whole ork race, wheras the ctan are just amazingly powerful creatures, the only reason they are called gods is because the necrons feel they are.

[Wraith78]

Well the C'tan like all other gods are just omnipotent beings, but the C'Tan have been around longer I think, seen as they are the children of the stars themselves, at least we have physical proof of the C'tan. Has anyone seen any evidence from either Gork or Mork other than fanatical orks who just claim they exist?

[Thimn_Witt]

Nobody has seen a hive mind and yet the imperium seems to think the nids have one. Silly meat bags, if only they knew that a super-grot controlled the swarm.

[Spawncraft]

The C'tan use to number in hundreds thanks to the deciver only four are left and two are frozen but aperently the nightbringer was the powerfulest in the beggining but the Outsider is now the powerfulest

[Aquila]

No, the nightbringer is still stronger physically than the Deceiever. However, the Nightbringer's ship was destroyed and the Deceiver has been active for centuries longer, so he currently has the advantage in available troops.

[Thalasion]

Has anyone seen any evidence from either Gork or Mork other than fanatical orks who just claim they exist?

Im pretty shure that ferel orks can have gork come and stomp on things just like in fantasy.

[Aquila]

Gork and Mork aren't physical beings.... they're Gods. Kinda like Chaos gods. There can't be physical evidence of them because they don't exist corporeally.

[Sarcastic Jedi]

BUT... the chaos gods have millions of deamonic servants in the warp and they each have their own deamonic champions. Whereas the Orks don't.

[Spawncraft]

He's right we know there definetly are chaos gods because they have deamons and such. Eldar have the avater and necrons have the C'tan orks have nothing to show. and I was talking about.

Before they went into statis the nightbringer was powerfulest but if the outsider came back he would probably be the strongest

[Gabe'Oss]

I believe the Warbosses are infused with the powers of both Gork and Mork (as far as I know). Well that's what Warbosses believe anyway - and given the Ork philosophy (It they think it works - it works) this would explain why Warbosses are pretty powerful. Remeber Ghazgul? He thinks he recieves visions and whatnot from Gork and Mork, granted he was shot in the head with a bolter as a grunt. But even with only half a brain he still is remarkably dangerous.


In any event - in the old edition of WH40k, Weird boyz could summon a giant hand from space to crush enemy armies - The Hand of Gork (or Mork, I'm not that sure).

[Paradise]

The Nightbringer used to be immensly powerful, but his weapon was banished into the immaterium by the Eldar, I believe. The Dragon is the most powerful, while the Outsider is the second. The weapons of necrons, takes some of the enemies life, and gives it to the C'tan.

[ironcurtain]

I believe the Warbosses are infused with the powers of both Gork and Mork (as far as I know). Well that's what Warbosses believe anyway - and given the Ork philosophy (It they think it works - it works) this would explain why Warbosses are pretty powerful. Remeber Ghazgul? He thinks he recieves visions and whatnot from Gork and Mork, granted he was shot in the head with a bolter as a grunt. But even with only half a brain he still is remarkably dangerous.


In any event - in the old edition of WH40k, Weird boyz could summon a giant hand from space to crush enemy armies - The Hand of Gork (or Mork, I'm not that sure).

Or was it the foot of mork? I have heard things of giant foots smashing enemy armys on the battlefields. Any info on this?

[Paradise]

Heh, that seems more like fantasy.

[Coey]

Or Monty Python.

[Wraith78]

How about this theory, that are two types of gods, ones that take a physical form and an active role in destroying their enemies such as the C'tan and the Eldar with the Avatar, and gods which have a profound influence and the deal with their enemies from a distance by giving their followers fractions of their own powers such as Gork , Mork and the Chaos Gods ??

[Sarcastic Jedi]

What are you talking about? Chaos has MILLIONS of deamons in the real world and billions of em in the warp. Even the emporer have his champions, the Sensei.

Whereas Gork and Mork don't give them any power. The power is already in the orks.

[Paradise]

C'tan does not only have an active role in combat. When things are built by necrons, they sometimes have to modify the reality for it to work. They help necrons with technology, or at least the dragon did(and probaly will later on).

[Wraith78]

What are you talking about? Chaos has MILLIONS of deamons in the real world and billions of em in the warp. Even the emporer have his champions, the Sensei.

Thats very true, what I was saying that the Chaos gods themselves dont exist in the Coporeal world to enact evil and so they have deamons , and give their followers powers to do the evil deeds, but with the C'tan they themselves are in the coporeal world causing havoc (among other things as Paradise pointed out) , same as the Avatar for the Eldar.

But yes I'm probably wrong about Gork and Mork giving the Orks power, but then again i dont know much the Orks anyway. :smash:

[BitchX]

At their full strength, the C'Tan more than likely are far more powerfull than Gork and Mork, or the Chaos gods. At their present state, they still are merely a fraction of the strength they had at their height of power.

[Spawncraft]

Yeah if they get to full power that's going to be dangerous for everything living necrons are like Trynids exept they don't take any ground they just kill things really

[DarthFelth]

i doubt that otherwise they wouldnt fear beings of the warp and wanna close it forever ;) Fighting the follows of gork, mork and khorne would just make the gods more powerful, like the WAAAAAAAAGHH and the just fighting for Khonre ;)

[Paradise]

They don't fear the beings of the warp, they fear the warp itself!!!

[Aquila]

Sarcastic, if you really want to go down that road... how do we know the Chaos Gods themselves exist?? Has anyone ever SEEN one? They don't exist physically either. Existence is an abstract term in the warp.

For that matter, how do you even define a God? The Chaos Gods are simply the culmination of thought and emotion given a name. Gork and Mork are probably similar: the embodiment of the Ork drive to destroy and make war.

[DarthFelth]

gork and mork i class as gods, but some ideas i heard were they are just really old orks that never stopped growing and live in teh warp (i dont think so) or that they are the last barinboyz (doubt it)

[Kaptin Zed]

The influence of Gork and Mork on the physical world is the formation of WAAAGH energy (or WAAARGH! if you're feeling Old Skool).

And yes, Foot of Gork was a psyker power Weirdboyz had in second edition. Now it's called "Stomp" but it no longer comes with the nifty foot-shaped template.

Gork and Mork are as "real" as the Chaos Gods are, and Rogue Trader-era fluff depicts them warring specifically with one Chaos God or another. They aren't really old Orks - they are just like the Chaos Gods, embodiments of an ideal or concept. Such as Khorne is the god of bloodletting and slaughter, and Nurgle of decay and entropy, the Ork Gods are the embodiments of the Orks two lines of thinking (both dealing with War or WAAARGH or WAAAGH of course): victory through size, strength, and vigor, and victory through sly, cunning deception.

:smash:

[DarthFelth]

right mr i said DONT THINK SO!! and DOUBT IT was that dont plain enough for you :P i said [b]I HEARD[/b[ damn monkey boy read every bit you

:smash: :smash: :smash: :smash:

bash you hammer at me

:smash: :smash: :smash:

i can do that to :D

[Kaptin Zed]

Disproving your post wasn't exactly the point of mine. If it was, I would've quoted you. :p

[DarthFelth]

u didnt disprove anything cos it said i was thing people had said that i didnt believe so how could disprove anything, i offered it as things that had been said :p

[Kaptin Zed]

Um. I'm not arguing. :fight:

[felll]

Warp energy is anti ctan any warp god would destroy them outright

[DarthFelth]

lol :blah: :nana: :smash:

[Shua_Zane]

Ok here the scoop on C'tan..
Four left due to devouring each other. The Deciever The Nightbringer The Dragon The Outsider. So far we have only to see which is more powerful Outsider or Dragon. The Dragon Resides on Mars! Deciever running around cuasing havoc within the Imperium of man and Nightbringer is trying to get more powerful by just devouring ppl. The Outsider is wandering around insanely out in the rims of the universe.

Necrons have the technology to construct pylons to seperate the corpreal realm from the incorpreal realm causing and warp powers to loos their powers. which means no more psychic powers or warp based travel in the corpreal realm. Why do think Cadia still stands by the EOT?

C'tan are still gaining their strength back from their slumber. C'tan are the origanal Gods of the universe followed by the "Old Ones" who created the Eldar and Krorks (orks)
So the Necontyr now loosing to the Old ones creations found the C'tan and crafted them necrodermises to use as weapons but they ended up worshiping them as their gods and were granted immortality in the form as slaves to the C'tan ( Necontyr had severly short life spans) Necontyr became Necron and then pushed back the forces of the Old Ones and destroyed them. But b4 they could the Old Ones realesed a plague of psykers (eldar, orks) So the Necron went into their stasis tombs but the Deceiver betrayed the nightbringer and the eldar went to trap him in the warp but only maniged to banish his weapon so the nightbringer was left in his tomb with nothing to eat but his necron followers for about 60 million years. Now Necrons are awaking due to the foolish Mon Keigh who ignore the warnings of the Eldar. Stupid Adeptus Mechanus.

[Sir Guppy]

hmmm. if the orks are just like chaos gods. r their ork deamons? i think this could be a really cool thing to include in the next ork codex, with the eye of terror spreading thanks to pylons being destoryed in the eye of terror. more warp power would be seeping out into the real world. a great time for ork power to escape. i would really love to see ork psykers summoning ork deamons (uber hard orks), or mayb choatic orks. what you guys think?

[Sarcastic Jedi]

no

no ork deamons

[DarthFelth]

they are more like the eldar gods ;)

[ironcurtain]

The wierdboyz are the counterpart to chaos demons.

[DarthFelth]

erm no they ant, they are nothing like daemons

[Kaptin Zed]

For once I agree with Felth.

[ShadowFox]

gork and mork don't have any avatars we know off, and it's entirely possible they don't even exist, But the incredible will of the orks make they appear real.

This makes sense, especially in the sense of the way the fluff is going.

It seems GW is going away from the old ork stuff about how their machinery just works because they "believe it should" to more of the idea that the orks simple have an innate talent for technology. The machines work because it is part of the ork race's genetics to where they can make machines, although they really have no comprehension of how they work. An ork could make you something, but would be unable to explain to you how he knew it would work. The Orks just use different techniques for making their weapons which are often crude in nature, but no one debates their effectivness.

[Paradise]

I believe Orks have an innate ability to build to stuff, but I think their technology is boosted by their mindpower too.

[orkdom]

simple solution: the c'tan are deemed weak enough to be allowed as special characters in the actual game-gork and mork are not.

the collective minds of every greenskin of every type is what creates these gods, so if you consider the number of orks around, along w/ that realistic thing about using them in games, it seems like the orkish gods would likely have an easy time of it. however, it's not likely they'll ever meet, the ork gods don't exist in the realm of reality, or the warp. they exist in an entirely seperate place called by orks "the great green".

there isn't any form of deamon when it comes to orks, orks are almost completely immune to the effects of the warp, thus the reason they can hop onto a space hulk and sit for as long as they like w/o any problems. and i dont know what you're talking about w/ that phasing out the mind fluff thing shadowfox, that's the stuff in the CURRENT ork codex.

[Paradise]

Orkdom, it's not that the C'tan are deemed weak they are the only gods that are in the game... They are the only gods with a body!!! I believe the C'tan at the height of their power were stronger than the orks are now.

[orkdom]

oh definately. there's no doubt that the c'tan were more powerful. true about that body thing... i had forgotten that. but i think i remember something about those bodies not actually being theirs in some way...probably wrong.

[Kaptin Zed]

They were "tied" into their current bodies by the Necrontyr, but promptly became addicted to the new realm of sensation, then conned the Necrontyr into becoming their slaves as the Necrons.

[Paradise]

Their body consists of living metal, like the necrons themselves.

[Average Boss]

You have to read the whole codex (and more than once) to get this but.....

The Dragon is on the Vaul moon, near an Eldar forge world.

(Shua_Zane)It says right in the codex "the vaul moon shall bring forth the dragon"

The Outsider is on......... Mars.The mahine god the adebtus worships is in reality a C'Tan. Abadon has seen visons of the Outsiders tomb through the power of the warp and seeks to harvest the C'Tans power.

The only way to kill a C'Tan permanantly is to simoltaneously destroy every Tomb ship and worls and every thing capable of building one and the C'Tan at the same time. Otherwise they just return to the nearest Tomb complex and regain their strength.

Or......

Use a disk of Vaul, the Decevier has ALL of them and has stored them in a place where even farseers cant see/find.

They hate Chaos because when Chaos emerged it destroyed most of their food source just as they were on the brink of victory. They then went into a deep slumper untill now. During that time the Nightbringers ultimate weapon was taken from him and sealed away (I forget where).

The C'Tan were crafted out of reasearch to the Necrotyr star which was rapidly killing the race off. They brought that C'Tan to the physical realm and it was the first, the nightbringer.

And space marines woke up the NB on Pavonis, Ill have to do a bit more research to find the location of the Decievers tomb.

[Kaptin Zed]

I think you mean the DRAGON is the Machine God. The Eldar don't have Forgeworlds. And most important forgeworld in the galaxy is Mars.

[Average Boss]

Forgeworld was a mistake on my part. Outsider is definatly on Mars and Dragon on Vaul moon (what ever the Vaul Moon is)

[ShadowFox]

No, The Dark Eldar and one of the Rivals of Pavonis's governor were responsible for the NB awakening. If Uriel and his men had not been there the NightBringer would have most likely consumed the plantary population. They used a meltabomb to scare him off, because in his weakened state he most likely didn't want to risk it.(he had been in stasis for millenia afterall with most of his energy reserves long depleted)

THe Talismans of Vaul I guess can cut the C'tan off from the Physical universe. The Deceiver has sealed most of them, but in the book "shadowPoint" one is mentioned by name, so apparently some of are still out there.

You can kill a C'tan by starving him to death(which I imagine is what the Talisman's do), but in a galaxy rich with stars and sentient life this is hard to do. Not to mention imprisoning something that can bend the laws of reality has to be VERY hard.

[Athair]

I think the Vaul Moon is Mars. The Outsider is INSANE. He vanished after the Laughing God got through with him. I think he went searching for him. As far as I know, you're the first one to say that the Outsider is the Machine God. Everyone else thinks it is the Dragon. Doesn't bother me though. Just means the Nids can't be controled by the Outsider (we can't have that fool being the Hive Mind now, can we?) :D

[ShadowFox]

I think the Vaul Moon is Mars. The Outsider is INSANE. He vanished after the Laughing God got through with him. I think he went searching for him. As far as I know, you're the first one to say that the Outsider is the Machine God. Everyone else thinks it is the Dragon. Doesn't bother me though. Just means the Nids can't be controled by the Outsider (we can't have that fool being the Hive Mind now, can we?) :D

As dumb as it sounds, it would be the biggest surprise for the Outsider to end up being a Tyranid Special Character, everyone would crap themselves.

[Athair]

Just to let you know, if the Outsider is leading the Nids, I would stop playing them IMEDIATLY! That would ruin Nids in my eyes. No stupid C'tan controling them...*Grumble**Grumble*
For good measure
:D :bandit: :D

[Shua_Zane]

nah i doubt GW would do that just a thing i found in some necron fluff on the net it is just a possiblity but i feel it's not true just thought i would scare the nid players :P

edit while u guys seem to talk about eldar devices to kill C'tan in the EOT their are Black Temples built by Eldar now held by IG that were made to hold and kill C'tan in but i believe 2 out of the 3 were destroyed. to bad Necron wins counted as IG wins.