Mark VI and VII Armor

[Entek-IO]

What the heck happend to the original design.. wouldnt that be worth a mod?
Giving the marines the Armor they Used for thousands of years, before sommone got a mind and ego fa.t sometime arround 1994?...at GW and flawed a PERFECT design.

[Richtofen]

Beakies?
Face grills > beaks.
It looks more menacing.
Looks cooler.

[Seth-221]

Buh? You saying they should be using cheap, pre-heresy mass produced armor instead of the post-heresy re-engineered armor?

Remember: beaks and the studed pads were designed to cut manufacturing costs, an essential funciton when equiping entire legions of marines at once.

[artemis]

i know why they used studded pads but what were the beaks use?

[thewizard]

the beeks were a dessing to crate a beter breathing atmosh feasr with in the helmet and the beek was also just a add on to the helmet for some of the sdpace marine armeis

[Entek-IO]

The mark VI is the last acceptable armor . the introduced grill is a bullet catcher.. and makes no sense.
ANd nO i dont think it looks cooler..,i think it looks retro and makes no sense from a ballistic protection perspective.

[Dalveldrin]

I personally never liked the beaks, It always made me want to paint my marines like Toucan Sam.

[Richtofen]

It also makes no sense to paint your army bight yellow and not use camos. But the fists do it with the exucse of 'we don't need to blend in'.

Similar thing.
Beaks just don't have that menacing effect.

[Dalveldrin]

"We don't need to blend in" is that their official war doctrine? Sounds pretty hard ass to me. I think with the upcoming codex (Beak-free mind you) I will have to collect some.....

[SideshowJoker]

ENTEK-IO is right!!!
I´ve played and painted 40k miniatures for years, and the Mk7 as well as the Mk8 sucks!
And Seth-221, have u ever seen the other armours??
The Mk1 to Mk4 is post heresy.
The Mk5 IS THE heresy armour,
and Mk6 is the armour from the fall of horus due the hands of the emperor to this day on!
( hope u know the story !! )
and to all there who think that the Mk6 ain´t got the menacing fx,
have u ever seen the cover of the original W 40k Rulebook 1st Edition???
No? then shut up!

[Dalveldrin]

Sucks or not, times have changed... the days of silly armor and helmets are in the past. Some of the older armor was cool and all, just not the beaks. I rather enjoy the idea of the Warhammer Universe having events that effect its current life too. Allowing it to progress. If the game was still what it was a long time ago.... you would have beaks, and squats... ewwww

"Fear not change... for with it you may buy gum"
The Emperor's last words to the Imperium before he got all crippled and stuff

[Lord Azrael]

I always thought the beaks looked pretty silly myself. I can't see one without thinking of Spy vs Spy.

Seriously wouldn't be that surpirsed if someone had made a Spy Vs Spy army where all the marines are black or White with flesh colored nose cones.

I dunno something about armor that looks like it could peck you to death seems less menacing.

[Dalveldrin]

Probably very fitting for the Raptor Legion though, or the Doom Eagles or maybe the Space Woodpeckers ... well you get my point.

[SideshowJoker]

spy vs spy!!! HAHAHAHAAAA!
*LOL*
this is a good one Lord Azrael! :werd:

[Entek-IO]

Spy vs Spy,... Space woodpeckers eh haha
You know exactly why the new models were introduced, surley not for aesthetical reasons, cannon and/or Historical aspects.
The reasons lie within the real world and money concerns.
which makes those new Armors even lesser bearable.

[hummers214]

the beaks have always reminded me of rats and i just HATE :banghead:the dotted shoulder pads

[Dalveldrin]

If updating old models is a money concern (which i'm sure it is) then i'm glad it is.

[Entek-IO]

Well,luckyly we are talking about a mOd. Should be quite alot of work though ,given all the animations etc.
Taste,is nothing you can argument about.:)

[Dalveldrin]

With jokes aside, you clearly have every right to like the old design, just as we have the right to like the new ones. I have been playing 40k quite a while, I was there for the older armor, but I just thought the new look was refreshing, and I think it helped bring more people into the game by updating models. Bringing new people into the universe is what keeps this game going and the only reason we even have a forum to talk on to discuss which armors we like.

[SideshowJoker]

spoken as a true Space Marine !!
( with beak!! LOL )

[Dalveldrin]

Damnit! lol I don't want a beak :weep:

[Lord Azrael]

Well, maybe they had money concerns becuase not as many people wanted to buy beaky space marines?

As it stands now, I belive I heard that 1 out of every 4 models Gamesworkshops sells is a Space Marine.

Thats not just 40k mind you.

Thats compared to ALL Gamesworkshop models.

[Richtofen]

have u ever seen the cover of the original W 40k Rulebook 1st Edition???
which is the same as the 2nd ed rulebook. Horrible picture that. The remake for the 3rd ed marine codex is so much better.

[Entek-IO]

You all know Fallout i assume,those MKVII armors showed up, well arround the Fallout version showed up?
The connection is obvious.
The argument of bringing fresh blood in is a bit weak, i heard that to often in the last 10 years .Always in connection with dumbing down content to be more appealing for the new(excuse the term)a bit "retarded gen" that cant cope with complex rulebooks anymore.
just look at the newest edition of w40 K rules.
I dont think thats the way to go. reminds me on ROme, they too lost education first, philosophers of Senecas caliber, for example, didnt show up in the later empire because of the lack of education.
Money is the wrong motive for change to the worse.
The only valid reason is if you are truly evil and or Chaos fanatic;)

[SideshowJoker]

Ok richthofen!
Sure, but this was written on the post, that they are not menacing enough!
no doupt that the pic ain´t good!

[Dalveldrin]

Is the concept of money making the world go around new or something? Fact of life, as it is, of course things change because of money.

If the majority like the new look, and the "dumbed" down rules, its the way to go as a company.

Sure I enjoyed the old rules alot more ... well kinda... looking back the games lasted forever and wouldnt end unless you called the phone rule trolls.

Reminds me of the time this Imperial Guard player, put his entire army on overwatch for two turns.... I mean come on... call it dumbing down if you want, but fun is also another way to look at it...

Not to mention conflicting rules like "This weapon allows no armor saves of ANY kind"

Then the other guy has "This Armor cannot be penetrated by ANY weapon"

Er...

But back to the topic... beaks uber suxxor

[Richtofen]

I don't mind a 1-2 beakies in squads, they can look cool. But a whole army of beaks is just....wrong.

[Entek-IO]

No its not a new concept, and i say only it should not be the prime reason.We all know the reality.We got to fight entrophy all the time, if not Chaos takes over.
Ok.. and the topic is Beaks are straight.
That the majority loves them ,remains to be proven,and that is a hard thing to do i guess.;)

[sicphuck]

i think that we need the older models in this game because im tired of seeing all this mk VII crap everywhere. i would LOVE to see the mark VI and earlier armours in the game and i would also love to see a mod that follows the horus heresy. that would be the ultimate mod if it included alot of the older wargear from the first and second edition. that stuff had the real fluff that made me fall in love with warhammer 40k. i miss seeing that stuff and because of all this bull spit that started after the second edition (tiny codex, gay rules.. etc.) i picked up playing epic alot more than warhammer 40k. i love the older models even the old landspeeder (1st ed.) kicked a$$. i would kill to see that older stuff in this game because it would bring back alot of memories. the old space marines with the beaks were probably better armour than what the stupid mk.VII had because that armour was introduced later and that technology used to create the mk.VII was not as good and pure as what the adeptus mechanicus used to create the mk.VI now remember that alot of the technology they had was lost because this whole thing spans thousands of years and its been around that long. i havnt really looked at warhammer in a couple of years but i must say that what i do remember tells me that older is better at least when it comes to space Marines. personally i miss the older daemonhunter armour because it was so f#cking ornate and beautiful. i really hope mods with the older armor come along and we all get the option to have some old school fluff show up in this game because it has the potential i think to show that stuff to every one. :beer:

[Dalveldrin]

Yeah I wouldn't mind seeing that armor in a Horus Heresy mod, including all the epic battles, while I also miss the old stuff, like the Dark Millenium boxed set , and all the wargear and rules... I mean in the old days if I used Kharn the Betrayer it was a big deal, and you better kill him fast before he single handedly decimates your army, now he can take on about 1 or 2 squads maybe. Although there was some stuff that was just too much back then... like Virus grenades on Imperial Guard or Orks, even Guardians, it was kinda disgusting lol

Double Post

Also not to mention that in those days the Psychic Phase took literally an hour sometimes.

[Anthonace]

Personally I don't mind either and I find the corvus (yes thats the beaky) good for picking out models in a squad. The exeption is with certain marine chapters that only really work with one or the other (raven guard).

[Seth-221]

Entek is right... the real reason is the beaks/studs caused a much higher incidence of molding/flash errors, which meant more deffective products and less profit.

That said, THANK you Sideshowjoker. Your random flaming was *most* illuminating. What is this Horus Heresy you speak of? Why, I believe I've never heard of it... do tell! And send me a picture of the first edition box... it's not like I've been playing for years or anything. It's not like I have the rogue trader box sitting across from where I'm sitting this *very* second.

Idiot.

I particularly love the way you say the Mark 1-4 is post heresy. Yeah, first mark was the latest suit, and mark 5 was heresy armor. Funny story that, see, the Emperor had this TIME MACHINE and he...

I'm not even going to go on. Go re-read your lore and come back later


EDIT: And as to old school rules... Vortex Grenades anyone?

[Richtofen]

Anti-plant missiles? O_o

[Dalveldrin]

<Shudders> Just saying Vortex gives me nightmares of a friend that played Tigirus for Ultramarines, and always got all inquisition powers so he could have the Vortex psychic power, then he had that cheesey ultimate power rule, so he would vortex all the damn time!

[Seth-221]

Eldar gaurdians.. with 800 rapid fire dice?

[Richtofen]

Yeah, gotta love those 9 hour games....

[Dalveldrin]

Another fun story... one time I had Blood Angels Tycho with a jumpack, and forgot about a dreadnought on overwatch with an assault cannon...

Before he finally hit the ground he took 47 wounds.... I was ashamed

He got 6 shots off before it jammed, at d10 wounds per bullet... well yeah

My friend demanded that we paint him metallic and put him on terrain as a dead statue... I agreed.

[Richtofen]

I remember charging my Eversor 36" across the table and wiping out most of the enemy army only to be killed by a lictor :(. But that was 2nd ed though.

Gotta love charging a squad of assault marines in. "Now okay, this one here, has a power axe and a bolt pistol. He will be using his axe single handed. This guy has a power fist and a hand flamer, this guy has a kitchen sink and some sort of stupid gun.......finally, I've declared what all 10 marines are doing. Now, we can start rolling dice. Damn, it's already been 20 minutes and all I've done is declare my assault marine attacks, thats awesome timing! After close combat phase I'll have another 2 hours while my opponent has his turn to plan my strategy. Thank god the rest of my army is on overwatch!"

Gotta love old editions!

[Dalveldrin]

Ouch, yeah I remember that, declaration was a phase in its own... me and my friends all had a joke called... himonem

It was for the declaration phase when saying who was shooting at who...

Him on him, him on him, him on him.....

[Lord Dante]

best thing ever IMO was.

SPace wolve 'cyclone' terminators, firing from inside out through the doors of landraider.

u could fire all krak missles in a single salvo equating to a 12 x half inch = 6inch radius/12inch diameter template that was so stupid i wiped out entire armys witha single blast. not to mentio i had a few of these.... daft.

but then again, eldar...

Bright lance, fast shot, turn side blow, swopping hawk wings... jump - fire twice, commander dead, comabt with 3 parry power fists. displacer fields...

of course if we go back to rouge trader. who liked macro weapons?....

[SideshowJoker]

the horus heresy was the time, when the highest commander of the emperor, lord horus got corrupted by the forces of chaos. he was the only one who managed to bring all the four chaos gods, Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeench and Slanesh together, to fight mankind. so the horus heresy began. many of the spacemarine chapters became corrupted by the powers of chaos and turned against their brother marines. After many years of vast battles marines versus marines, brother verus brother the final clash of the forces of mankind and chaos happened. during this battle the patriarch of the blood angels fell to the hands of lord horus, just before horus encountered the emperor himself. they both fought for the victory of their believe, and at the end horus fell.
but the emperor got fataly wounded during the fight against his former friend and brother marine, so that the adeptus had to put him into a stasis field, in order to preserve him from death. after the fall of lord horus the chaos gods turned agains each other again, and so the spacemarines drove them back into the eye of terror, from which the unholy forces came.
from this day on, the emperor sits on his golden throne as a living death to which warmaster horus doomed him.
this happened many thousend years ago.

And this is in short words the story of the horus heresy.

Questions??

After all, i did not want to offend or insult anybody, but if i did, please appoligize!! :thumb:

After all there are many stories to be told bout the horus heresy, and the whole warhammer 40k universe! :beer:

[Seth-221]

I think you missed the sarcasm in the post, joker, but apology accepted anyway. Rather good of you to do that.

EDIT: That wasn't sarcasm, by the by. Nor was that. Or that. Or that. Or that. Or that... ah hell.

[Lord Dante]

U might like to add that Horus was the first and closest clone / Primarch to the Emp there was.

[Jericho]

Personally I think that, used in moderation, the old armor can be very cool for Veterans and the likes. Here's one I did for my Ravenguard recently, everybody seems to love it (both new players because it's new and exciting and veterans because it's old and familiar :D) and I'm tempted to do a bunch more later on.

http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics7/img40a45f15704ec.jpg

[Sons of Russ]

that looks like mk IV armor w/ mk. V shoulders

Personally, I love the look of mark V armor. It's a bit more bulky than later versions and has those hardened armor studs all over both shoulder pads and sometimes eeven the helmut... :dyn:

[TheDeadlyShoe]

U might like to add that Horus was the first and closest clone / Primarch to the Emp there was.

Lion El'Jonson...eh?

[Annatar]

Ive been inn the hobby for a few years now, and I have to say that the new types are IMHO much better.

Its nice to have a few beaks peppered throughout your force, but I have never liked the idea of a whole army with beaks. The studded shoulder pads also have the unfortunate tendancy to make your troops look like magic mushrooms when they are painted in contrasting colours.

[Lord Dante]

Lion El'Jonson...eh?

Horus is most deff the first clone of the emp and the closest to the emps power.

then he made a batch clone of the rest, and the chaos stole them and hid them throughout the galaxy. some argue that the reason for sanguinus's wings deformity is due to his contact with the warp.

[Anthonace]

Horus wasn't really a clone of the emperor more a genetic project to save humanity like all other primarchs.

[Lord Dante]

well he and the other primarchs were designed to be as close as possible to the emp himself, hence my term clone.

a SM isnt a clone of course but is essentially designed to be the same as all the others.

[Volcanus]

Ive just herd that there making another version of the space marine models and there going to be out next month i think (I hope they look more like the older models) :Pike: :matrix:

[Korbah]

The emperor is a human - with the most obscene psychic powers ever known (not even arhimann can compete and he's nearly godlike in power). The emperor always appeared super-human because he used his psychic powers to augment his fairly standard human body. At the end of the day he is a mutated human.....not a superhuman.

The primarchs are NOT human....they're based on human dna but were recoded from the test tube to be in all ways superior: mentally and physically. They are superhumans beyond SM who are humans augmented with superhuman organs --> primarchs were born superhuman and are in all respects better than SM. Their DNA is coded differently making them creatures with superior abilities. Note that none of the primarchs were intially psychic --> the emperor created them without such tendencies to protect them from the dangers of the warp, it wasn't until they were whisked away into the warp by the fell chaos powers that some of them were mutated and aquired psychic abilities. That being said none of them initially had powers to compete with the emperor and he bested all of them when he tracked them down. Horus later through dark deals managed to aquire enough psychic abilities from the chaos gods to challenge the emperor's although even these were not as powerful as the emperor.....however, horus was superhuman (and daemonically charged) and combined his physical prowess and strong physic abilities to challenge the emperor's weaker body but stronger psychic abilities.....u know the rest (effectively a stalemate, horus died while the emperor got lucky in that they put him on the golden throne b4 he died)

[Seth-221]

Arhiman's not anywhere close to godlike. He's an exceptional psyker, sure. But even Eldrad of the Ulthwe puts him to shame, to say nothing of Magnus the Red, the other Daemon Primarchs, Horus, or the Emperor himself. He probably isn't even a match for two Lords of Change.

[Korbah]

Seth....in the fluff the only thing stopping Arhiman from becoming a new chaos god in his own right is that he hasn't yet found the black library --> once he finds it, he'll use its secrets to ascend to a god. BTW eldrad is dead....his soul got eaten lol.

Arhiman isn't as good now (tho he's the most powerful mortal now that eldrad is dead) as those others you mentioned but once he becomes a god only the emperor will challenge him for power......magnus is a daemon prince and a servant of tzeentch not a god (admittantly u shouldn't trifle with him)

[Dalveldrin]

Not to mention in 2nd edition, I often used Ahriman againt Eldrad and I pwned the Psychic phase, always went first, always got the most cards etc. I haven't played a while in 3rd edition, so I don't remember Eldrads rules from that, but I remember Ahriman having an unheard of 4 powers. When everyone up to that date in 3rd only had 1.