Killing nids strategies

[evil_turtle]

Me and my friends all play warhammer and one day a friend decided to get a tyranids army. Ever since that day he has annihilated my armies and all of my other friends armies. The closest ive ever came to beating him was with my newly started khorne army which was also close hand, but my necron army gets slaughtered as soon as he gets into close combat.

I was wondering if you guys had any general tips to defeat a tyranid army, and any tips for necron and khorne armies to defeat them.

Also do you guys feel as I do that close combat is more powerful then shooting?

[LethalRaptor]

if you do want to buy a eldart army it should take him out since they have great shotting abilite and get some banshies and serr council

[TS_ahriman]

Necrons actually have a really tough time with 'nids because of rending claws and such. Luckily for you, both warriors and genestealers are fragile and expensive, so shoot them whenever possible. Things to avoid for your army would be pariahs and wraiths. Instead, stock up on destroyers (both kinds) and immortals as your main fire platform. Your main priority is killing the low toughness models so that you have fewer models in assault.

Khornate armies have fewer problems. A defiler will present really nasty problems for him, as would a predator. In this match, you'll want to gun down the tyrant and warriors....just charge his carnifex (his low number of attacks combined with the chain-axe armor save rule will make it pretty easy, especially with a tooled aspiring champion). Bezerkers will almost certainly grind his gaunt squads up (though it depends partially on how much he spends on a point per model basis).

I'm just making assumptions regarding what the armies are composed of. If you could provide a basic idea for what is in the tyranid army as well as your own, it would help.

[wing5wong]

lethal raptor, he did ask for tips for necrons and khorne man... i never played nids, or never as khorne or necrons, so sorry, cant help ya... except shoot them before they get to you

[evil_turtle]

ahriman: in his army he has a hive tyrant with 4 claws and 3 guards. A carnifex and old one eye. A squad of termagaunts and 2 squads of hormaguants with leaping one hive node and a increase to weapon skill(may be more) i think his cost around 10-12 points each, 2 lictors and I beleive 5 raveners a sqaud of genestealers with rending claws and ripper swarms.

I have 32 warriors a necron lord with orb and viel, 6 destroyers, 6 heavy destroyers, monolith, both c"tan gods, 7 scarabs, 5 immortals, 4 flayed ones, 4 pariahs 3 wraiths and a tomb spyder.

My khorne army has: chaos lord, daemon prince, 14 bezerkers with 2 aspring champs (one on jugger) land raider, rhino and kharn and 6 termies to go with the daemon prince/lord.

[TS_ahriman]

At 10-12 points each, his gaunts are just asking to be shot up :D

My advice regarding warriors can basically be substituted for raveners....they're essentially the same, but raveners are worse (+ to you). Taking either C'Tan might be smart as a counter assault unit, but don't use the monolith....venom cannons have a surprising amount of fun with it. If you do use a C'Tan, use it to assassinate his hive tyrant. Don't bother shooting it with the big-destroyer-guns (forget what they're called) since he's taking guard, and instead use them to instant kill his raveners.

If genestealers make it to your lines, you'll die....don't take that the wrong way though. They are notoriously slow (at 6"-6"), so they instead rely upon gaunts to keep your guns busy in assault. Warriors, immortals, and destroyers should concentrate everything they have at the nearest gaunt squad (though the str. 6 guns on the destroyers could be used on the rippers if they get too close). You'll also find that scarabs, assuming they charge, can beat gaunts in assault. Use them as a counter-assault unit like your C'Tan by taking advantage of their mobility.

If you get the nightbringer/deceiver to kill his tyrant, he has no more synapse....and things suddenly get easier. Take your C'Tan and deal with Old one Eye (by this time he should be plowing through a line of warriors).

As a general suggestion, I'd advise that you take a lord w/ the orb and a destroyer body, along with some close combat nastiness. He's fine as is, but the destoyer lord is more effective against 'nids.

As for your khorne army, it's far more random since the battle will almost certainly devolve into one huge mass of assault phases.

[evil_turtle]

Thanks for the advice ahriman. About the genestealers, he usually likes to infiltrate them behind cover and then they usually arrive around the same time as his gaunts also my rapid fire is usually useless because by 12" his gaunts leap at my warriors.

[TS_ahriman]

If you get the chance then, use scarabs against his stealers. The gaunts are your biggest problem, but he won't have nearly as many as he could have since they're expensive. Try to deploy so that it's hard for him to engage multiple gaunt squads in multiple different assaults, and definately keep your squads at least 3" apart (so he can't consolidate into a second squad).

Now that i think about it, scarabs work wonders against 'nids.

[bloodthirster2]

somone i no loves to see nids being flamed basically if he places them close together use blast stuff like paticle whip or a frag cuz nids have a bad armor save my friend has nids too and he beats me alot but i found anything with lots of shot or a template

bottom line: templates

[BlindManBoots]

Honestly, shoot for the Hive Tyrant first before anything else, because the nids get to deep strike right on you for close combat, and all genestealers come back. So shoot the biguns before anyone else.

[TS_ahriman]

Honestly, shoot for the Hive Tyrant first before anything else, because the nids get to deep strike right on you for close combat, and all genestealers come back. So shoot the biguns before anyone else.

They only get the deepstrike if they are using:
a) Mycetic spore drop, which limits available models and is only with the opponents consent, or
b) Anything with wings

As to all genestealers coming back....I'd be curious where you got that rule.

[BlindManBoots]

They only get the deepstrike if they are using:
a) Mycetic spore drop, which limits available models and is only with the opponents consent, or
b) Anything with wings

As to all genestealers coming back....I'd be curious where you got that rule.

4th edition man. Its something on the meatgrinder, which is what I normally play.

[Athair]

From the sound of it, its not a seeding swarm army.

For basic Nids:
1. Let them get reeeeeeal close
2. Spray'm in the eyes with raid!
Be warned: SM rule 207: Raid is compleatly usless against a Carnifex
Just kidding :D

For real, shoot the Synapse first. Take out his control and you will get crazy results with failed Instinctive Behavior tests!

Also, 10pts is the basic cost for a Hormagaunt. WS4 and 12" assault. Not too shabby (Orks should be jelous of 12" assault :D ).

[TS_ahriman]

The only problem would be the tyrant guard. Those strength nine guns would be better spent instant killing the raveners, while a C'Tan will beat a Tyrant and Guard no matter what.

[BlindManBoots]

true, a C'Tan could take the Hive Tyrant and whatever guard he has.


So would a strength 10 Railgun...

[peturabo]

Gaunts can be a pain using the holdem up classic tactic.

Your best friends against Nids troops are anything with th word GAUSS for their weapon name, they will just blast Nids apart.

If your mates tyrant has tyrant guard he will only be moving at 6" a turn. I'd recommend you get some heavy destroyers, tomb spyders, monolith to deal with them.

Though if ya wanna go overkill the Ctan are alwyas a good option.

For stealers use the same tactics as you do against the gaunts, it's stealers don't have fleet of claw so they can easily be separated so you can deal with em one at a time.

For warriors, raveners/ carnifex use the same weapon on them as you do the tyrant(Heavy destrs, monolith, etc).


Lastly if you think his gaunts are within 18", to counterattack them move your warriors 6" and then rapid fire them, at least it will kill the gaunts.


As for the annoying Tau guy, Railguns are good and all but hive tyrant and guard can get cover saves from railguns they don't in close combat plus Nids always want to run in HTH.

Hope this helps,

Cheers

[aceofchaos]

My khorne army has: chaos lord, daemon prince, 14 bezerkers with 2 aspring champs (one on jugger) land raider, rhino and kharn and 6 termies to go with the daemon prince/lord.
hey just a few comments, too many HQs. camps cant ride on juggernauts and still be in the squad because i don't thing they can fall under blood rage
GET MORE BEZERKERS
i play khorne and i think having 30 bezerker is fun and they kill nids really fast with furious charge :D
for your necrons get more moniliths the nids cant kill them easily just keep it away from the carnifexs
they don't get 2D6 armor penetration on them with their rending claws and you can just Guass flex arc the gaunts to death

[TS_ahriman]

for your necrons get more moniliths the nids cant kill them easily just keep it away from the carnifexs
they don't get 2D6 armor penetration on them with their rending claws and you can just Guass flex arc the gaunts to death

Venom cannons are str. 10, assault 2, 36" range (glancing only though).

Keeping it away from that is kind of difficult. I'm going to stick to the premise that the monolith would be a point-sink that won't make back what you paid for it....a C'Tan would be better.

[Athair]

The only problem would be the tyrant guard. Those strength nine guns would be better spent instant killing the raveners, while a C'Tan will beat a Tyrant and Guard no matter what.
WOAH! Whats this? If its a good Tyrant, it'll have Warp Blast. This will get probably 1 wound on the C'tan. Plus you have 9 attacks going on you w/ I5 and any 6s to hit wound without a roll. For about 4 points they each doulble wounds they deal, too. The C'tan would also only get 4 attacks. 3+ to hit, 2+ to wound. 1 1/2 Guards would die per turn. Plus you have the Stealers. Those are my choice in killing anything much more than 100pts. Don't underestimate Rending Claws.
Shoot the Guards down before you get to the Tyrant. Look at the rule for Gauss weapons.

[TS_ahriman]

The C'Tan's save is invulnerable....and he has five wounds. The tyrant and guard only wound him on a 6+, and guard only get 2 rending claw attacks each.

No charging for the sake of statistics:
Tyrant takes 5 attacks (2x scything talons) and hits with 3.3 of them. .5 of them will wound, which equates to .25 wounds every round of assault.
Guard take 4 attacks and hit with 2. About a .5 chance of getting rending, and a .25 chance after saves. Of the two attacks that hit, you get .33 wounds, which equates to .165 wounds after saves.

This averages 1 wound on the first assault phase when you have all of your guard.

C'Tan takes 4 attacks and hits with 2, and averages a little under 2 wounds with no saves allowed. 1 dead guard.

Consecutive assault phases get better for necrons and worse for bugs.

A concentrated warp blast will hit on a 3+, pass Ld check consistantly, and wound on a 2+. Then a 4+ invlunerable save. .25 wounds on average.

A nightbringer has that lascannon ability...let's not forget that if we're going to factor in warpblast.

Addressing the problem with stealers is viable, but whether they get in cc with the C'Tan is more reliant upon the play of the necron user than anything else.

[Athair]

Guards have 3 attacks apiece. Plus, although the C'tan has an Invuln save, it is only 4+ and has no normal save. Snipers, missile launchers, lascannons, and things with rending do a very good job against it. Plus, you are working with even odds. If they have Implant Attack then you will die in 3 failed saves. Not alot, huh? Hive Tyrants are best to be dealt with alone, without the Guards present.

[evil_turtle]

wow, thats alot of strategy. I dont think he has venom cannons, he might have one, he got rid of most of his guns recently to put in claws for more attacks. I havent really tried c'tan yet as Ive never really liked using up 300 or 360 pts making my army much smaller then his. Also which c'tan would you suggest the faster but weaker deciever or the slower but more powerful nightbringer?

[Imperial Tiger]

Okay, I'm an SM player but I watched a 'nid vs. Necron battle a little while ago. Here's how it played out.

Necron rapid fire obliterated an entire gaunt unit before they got into close combat. 20 models with 2 shots apiece for 40 shots! 29 hits with no save wiped out the swarm.

Unfortunately the second wave behind that ripped the Necrons apart even though they had a Res Orb and veil. They lost the combat and because of the 'nids higher initiative they ran down and wiped out the fleeing Necrons.

My only advice then is keep them at arms length and rely on shooting! Oh yeah, and "Shoot the big ones!" :sprint:

[BlindManBoots]

wow, thats alot of strategy. I dont think he has venom cannons, he might have one, he got rid of most of his guns recently to put in claws for more attacks. I havent really tried c'tan yet as Ive never really liked using up 300 or 360 pts making my army much smaller then his. Also which c'tan would you suggest the faster but weaker deciever or the slower but more powerful nightbringer?

nightbringer.

[SOFDC]

I'd suggest bringing anything and everything that shoots more than once, or has a template. Heavy bolters, burst cannon, multi-lasers...

[JStallion]

I play 'Nids and most common opponent is my Necron armied friend.

Now he doesn't have a C'tan to take out my Tyrant, but my Tyrant is winged and no guards so easier to shoot at and all.
I have 50 11pt. gaunts I send at him, 2 broods; 4 mutations total, 2 hive nodes and 2 rending claws. 3 warriors w/ talons and claws and a 'fex w/ dual talons. We only play 1000pts. but I shread his army pretty easily. Warriors and gaunts with leaping, Tyrant winged, so I get into CC pretty quick (gotta love leaping units like my warriors being considered beasts under the new rules).

He has some wariths, destroyers of both kinds, grounded necron lord, some scarabs and tomb spiders, some flayed ones, not many immortals and 2 squads of warriors.

[TS_ahriman]

Guards have 3 attacks apiece.

Check one more time.

[Somebody]

My advice is seriously shoot salvos upon the hive tyrant or the warriors. Once they are down the Nid army will be broken and will fail morale checks and stuff. Dont let them get too close to you with your necron army, if they do there will soon be a metal scrap heap on the side of the table. As with khorne i dont know much about them, but same rules apply, shoot the big ones!!! The genestealers should be destroyed with multiple shot weapons. flame the rippers. Hope that helps

[bloodthirster2]

umm no you'll wanna blast them cuz if i remember correctly their almost EXACTLY like scrabs except they have a better WS

[Athair]

Check one more time.
Sorry, my mistake. All depends on your luck. Do the Guards have Implant attack?

[evil_turtle]

nope, he says everyone tries to kill his tyrant so all his guards die before they get into combat= no implant attack.

[Abyss]

one word..ordanace, I've palyed Tyanids before one earthshaker reduce a 32 swarm genetstealer too 5..well it got like 20 of em, then my genestealers got shot at XD

[Evan_gelion]

If I were to sum it up simply, I would say the key strategy is to..

Stay away from the Tyranid pointy things.

Tyranid armies typically attack in waves. First the Hormagaunts and faster units come in, usually to tie up the key units. The key here is to either deliver enough damage to ensure this DOESN'T happen--or kill the important things before they get here. Gaunts are nothing to sneeze at in combat, but they're first and foremost goal is to stop you from shooting them. All Tyranids, and I do mean all Tyranids (Despite what some say, Tyranid shooting is rarely all that spectacular. Certainly nothing compared to a normal army that likes to point their guns at the enemy as opposed to clubbing them with it--and that person quoting Venom Cannons as Strength 10 is only half right--it's strength +2 the base strength of the creature firing it, assault two, and can only glance--meaning it will take 6 glancing hits on average to take a Monolith down--or 12 wounds, or 24 shots--basically 12 salvos, which with one takes 6 turns--2 take 3, etc..-and what Tyrant or Carnifax is going to sit there shooting every turn?).

A key strategy to nab if the Tyranid player doesn't invest in Hive nodes--as always, is shoot the big ones. Cut the heart out of the attack and the Gaunts faulter.

Which brings you to the next problem. Gene Stealers. Gene Stealers are usually the second wave, and they're a nasty lot in hand to hand. Their init is high and so's there WP, they have a lot of attacks, and 6's rip through all forms of armor. Not much can stand up to a concentrated Gene Stealer horde--and if they do, they won't in remaining turns. The major archilles heel of the Stealers is their toughness 4 and paper thin 6+ save. With the new rules, there is no screening, so if they reveal themselves--rip them apart. They will TEAR up your hard units in hand to hand. Gaunts are Nasty--Stealer's are killer.

The third and final wave is usually the Hive Tyrant and Carnifaxes--and if your line is broken by than, it's over. Both units can be hard to take down, and both are nearly unstoppable in hand to hand. The Carnifax isn't as tough as a Wraithlord, granted, but he's tough enough. The way to handle these bad boys is to have heavy weapons in reserve that don't steal precious shots away from those mini hordes. For IG, it's Anti-Tank squads and as many Lascannons/Missle launchers you can crank out. For Space Marines, Devestator squads, you get the idea. Remember though that failing that, concentrated fire WILL get the job done. I've taken down Carnifaxes with concentrated Heavy Bolter fire, and they're slow, so no worries. The Hive Tyrant though.. Ugh.

Some armies are especially vulnerable to Tyranid assault--off hand, I can think of Tau... (some) and Eldar. If you're one of those, I suggest misdirection at every opportunity. Keep your army fast and mobile, and draw out the Tyranids as best you can. For instance, Tau Battlesuits, with their jump ability, can keep up a pressured fire, don't have to worry about *too much* shots back, and with some intelligent manuevering can take a long time take down. Slower units however, Like Broadsides that have to stay mobile, are generally meat. (I've seen too many ripped apart by a rampaging Carnifax or a hail of Stealers).
It's also worth pointing out multiple vehicles are another trick. Tyranids HAVE to assault weapons more often and not to crack them--Venom cannon's are just too inefficent at the job. Taking some high armor value's and staying on the move will help--but don't get cocky. A swarm of stealer's will roll a 6 EVENTUALLY, and than only need a 4+ to glance--which is terrible odds, except for the fact you may face as many as 20 strikes.

So... pretty much, with Nids, choose your targets, cut out the heart of their attacks before they hit-and most importantly, try and control the pace. The nids are at their best when THEY'RE calling the shots. That's just my brainstorms, off the top of my head, anyway.

[evil_turtle]

Thanks for the strategies everybody, I'll probably play him next weekend and I'll tell ya how it went. Hopefully with my new found nid knowlegde I'll be able to sqaush those bugs.