My thoughts after playing demo

[SuperDuper28]

Ok I've done the single player campaign and I've had a few skirmishes and unlocked the high end marine units and orcs.

Pros-
Reminds me a Starcraft but 3d and I loved Starcraft

Nice graphics,visual effects,voice acting,sounds...ect

Controls are ok

Negatives-

Seems like the big RTS booboo where you have different races but the units are essentially the same for all,just different graphics and sound.Though its kinda hard to tell this with the demo with only two races.

Need more camera options like 3rd person lock on selected unit and just a simple lock on the unit.

AI seems kinda stupid to where they won't attack your base unless you interfere with their resource posts.I left the computer for 30 mins when it was 2 computers vs me and I was pinned down in my base.When I came back everything was the same as I left it.



Umm all I can think of now,its late and just got done playing a two hour stalemate against computers and I'm tired.All and all I really like it!I realize the demo is only a small glimpse and after reading the features for retail I'm ready to buy!

[Matjov]

In my opinion, yet ANOTHER waste of a good license. This game is just Warcraft 3 with new graphics. When will someone get their act together and make a decent GW-based computer game? Firewarrior was an insult, and this isn't much better. OK, it may have a few new ideas, but they don't really change the fact that this game is just another rts. I thought the tired old base building concept was dead and buried.
A 40K game should be more along the lines of Soldiers: Heroes of World War 2, with better tactical options, like the table top game. Close combat is just a confusing mass of graphics, you can't even see what's going on. There should be a points system to buy units, so you have to make do with a limited force (and therefore you'd be more careful with them).
Relic, this isn't good enough (judging by the demo). This even seems like a step back from C&C Generals. I've got better things to spend my money on.

[ionfish]

SuperDuper: there are four races in the game itself, and trust me, they are different.

Matjov, well, I guess it's your opinion. Personally I think you're just plain wrong. :)

Try zooming in to the see the close combat; it doesn't strike me as being more a "confusing mess of graphics" than close combat ought to be.

[Elite Guard]

Superb game and looking to be my favorite RTS, better than even SC (who's time has come and gone).

WTF is up with the retarded AI though? Allied computers regress to 3 year old mode.

[ionfish]

The higher-level AI in the game itself are a load better, plus of course the game is far better once you play it with real live people.

[Elite Guard]

Yeah, MP is MUCH better, but sometimes sitting down and smacking around comps is fun. I've just never understood why Allied AI has to lag behind so badly (not in only this game, but in practically EVERY RTS that allows a skirmish mode).

Skirmish is supposed to emulate MP mode anyway... maybe it adds to the realism... having that super crappy teammate? At least it never techs up far enough to start hitting my guys with friendly fire from a whirlwind...

[Vertigo]

I've just never understood why Allied AI has to lag behind so badly (not in only this game, but in practically EVERY RTS that allows a skirmish mode).


Steps to understanding:

1) Take an A.I. class.
2) Learn about A.I.
3) Look up the term "CPU cycle budget" as regards game design.
4) Compare typical CPU budgets in PC games compared to CPU cycles used by competent A.I.

Your complaint is roughly equivalent to asking "why haven't we colonized Alpha Centari yet?"

[Mr Orc]

I think his complaint is a valid one and so would you if you have actually plaid a 2v2 game...

Your team mate will sit there and do just about nothing. Even if you stop the attacks on his base completely he will just make loads of scouts send them out to get req points and they will get killed, so he will do it again. In the mean time the other two enemy AI are throwing dreadnoughts at you.

That was on hard difficulty...

[MrChoke]

Steps to understanding:

1) Take an A.I. class.
2) Learn about A.I.
3) Look up the term "CPU cycle budget" as regards game design.
4) Compare typical CPU budgets in PC games compared to CPU cycles used by competent A.I.

Your complaint is roughly equivalent to asking "why haven't we colonized Alpha Centari yet?"

I know how difficult A.I. is to write, I have written some game A.I. before. But these guys are expert game developers, they could write a decent A.I. And I know what the trade-off is between a CPU crunching A.I. algorithms and rending the game. But at the same time, I am sick of worthless, no fun, half-hearted A.I. attempts from game deveopers. If the A.I. is bad then just don't have it.

Also, the one point you didn't make about why A.I. isn't good in games is "What is the first thing that gets axed when a game is falling behind in development and the dealine is approaching?" The A.I.

Personally, I don't have time to spend hours online all the time to not get owned every time I play MP. I want a good single player experience for once. Based on the posts I am reading on this game, looks like this game is no different than most other RTSs.

[ionfish]

I think it's a little silly to complain about the AI when you haven't even played against the harder levels of AI.

[DarthVaygr]

It is designed to be target practice easy, getting swarmed, etc. You wouldn't be too happy is the AI pushed all the time. They retreat if they are under fire by so and so, and a big thing is they respond to aggressiveness. If you don't attack, neither will they.

[Noir]

I think it's a little silly to complain about the AI when you haven't even played against the harder levels of AI.

I've seen comp stomp 4v3s in the beta where the players were just absolutely murdered by the AI.I mean murdered as in having entire hordes of the enemy storming through thier bases and killing everything in sight,even huge groups of turrets.It's brute force maybe,but to watch 3 AIs steamroll 4 non-newb players is no laughing matter.

[Vileblood]

when retail comes play the comp on harder or insane mode and see how "easy" it is.

insane cheats though but thats why its insane

the campagin i thought was rather easy especially for any beta player but you have to figure that was like the 4th mission in the campaign and they are designed to be beaten. and id think the developer is balancing the story and campaign for people who havent already played the game against real people for 2 months

there was a rumor that the AI in the SP was tonned down for the demo but thats just a rumor

[Noir]

It probably was,what with most of the Ork building and unit HPs being lowered for the most part with the exception of the Warboss and the Squiggoth.

[DarthVaygr]

Yes, single player was put on default level "easy" for the demo, so people who played it wouldn't get discouraged and not play the game, leave, and not buy the game. This has been the source of scolding by Beta testers who've played the game, and also PC Zone gave the game an 81% because they played easy level and said it was too easy :/ Play the next level up goddamn magazines!

[Vileblood]

hmm is it confirmed that most hp was lowered? other than warboss or squigg.

i know squigg had almost double the hp 15k hp is like 8k

hmm now that i think about it. it does seem the building unit hp was lowered. orks died insanely fast to HB fire and i dont remember a upgrade LP or a waaagh! tower falling to 1 melta bomb throw

[Noir]

Of course it was.If I compared the stats in the beta for almost all the ork units and compared that to the stats in the demo the stats in the demo would be much lower than in the beta,sometimes by almost half.

[Mr Orc]

I've seen comp stomp 4v3s in the beta where the players were just absolutely murdered by the AI.I mean murdered as in having entire hordes of the enemy storming through thier bases and killing everything in sight,even huge groups of turrets.It's brute force maybe,but to watch 3 AIs steamroll 4 non-newb players is no laughing matter.

Those were the days.....

There were 5v3 AIs on harder difficulty and the AI still manage to kill a player or two in the game. There is nothing wrong with the enemy AI.

The only problem i have is that the friendly AI seems a bit stupid....

[Noir]

I was actually in one once when that happened ;)

[Elite Guard]

The only problem i have is that the friendly AI seems a bit stupid....

-Exactly. If I can play against 2 very skilled enemy computers, why the hell can't my ally be as smart?

If I play a 2v2, then my ally is a total dumbass, but if I play a 1v3, the AI that takes my ally's spot is smart again. Same race, same number of players in the game.

Only difference is he's on the other team, so it has NOTHING to do with CPU speed or the difficulty of writing AI code or anything. Just allied AI seems to always be set to easy no matter what.

-Once, late game, my ally suddenly came to life and started churning out dreads and Whirlwinds and Tac marines and an uphill battle for me suddenly became a landslide in my favor. I still can't figure out what triggered the sudden onset of smartness though.

[Noir]

I think it's a similiar thing that makes the enemy AIs "give up" in the beta ;)

[Spoonbender]

Seems like the big RTS booboo where you have different races but the units are essentially the same for all,just different graphics and sound.Though its kinda hard to tell this with the demo with only two races.
I agree, it's hard to tell from the demo, but trust me, the races are more different than in *any* other RTS. Even Starcraft or WC3 still had similar units. An orc unit is about as powerful as a night elf unit at the same tech level. The same goes for undead and human, or any of the 3 races in Starcraft.

In DoW, you have *really* different races. Orks have practically no heavily armored units, but they have cheap melee madmen.
Marines have few, expensive units. They can't stand up to orks in numbers or in melee skills, but and some units in other races do better ranged damage than them, but no one beats a marine in overall toughness and "damn difficult to get rid of"-ness. :P
Eldar has tons of weak, specialized units.

My point is that an Orc player in WC3 can still do all right playing Night Elves. A Zerg player in SC can still fight using Protoss.

But using Eldar tactics when playing Marines, is just plain suicide. The races are very different, in terms of army sizes, number of different unit types, upgrade flexibility, and even tech trees/ways to get more advanced units.

The AI doesn't seem too bad to me. It could be better, yes, but I've seen much worse in other RTS games. In either case, it just got a big boost from the beta to the demo, so with any luck, they're still not done working on it. :)

[Firecrak]

You people have never played against HARD and above comps. 2v2 isn't pretty.

[GhengisKhan]

The opinion of this 40k fanatic is this game rocks!
Just finished playing the Demo to come an have a look see on these boards just to find out what other DOW demo players might be thinking.

Being table top 40k players, our group has known about the development of this game for a while now. We have all been somewhat conserned that it just wouldn't translate well. After stumbling on to the demo from Portent boards, I'm not unhappy to say this game is just awesome! The opening movie is just breathtaking and the overall feeling of the game is very 40k like.

Iv'e always been more of a Unreal Tournament or Quake type of computer game player. Ive tried Warcraft, Starcraft and Command and Conquer but RTS games were always more about resource management than strategy and battles to me. This always made RTS games feel repetitive and...well just boring! This game does such a great job of replacing this, Im sure necessary part of a RTS, with more of a battle aspect its just silly.

I could go on and on about the many awesome particulars of this game, but I just wanted to post to say Thanks! and Great Job! Not give an entire review. :beer:

[TinBane]

You wonder if he actually played the game for any period of time at all (Matjov). If your so tired of the RTS genre, then this game will not appeal to you. Therefore you should go and play 1942 or CoD or something. This isn't a first person shooter, its an rts, and a damn good one, bringing in elements of games long dead (TA and others) which revitalises in my opinion at least a small part of the RTS genre. I too thought that RTS was dead, after WC3 and AoE2 came out, but this has me interested once more.

Good on you relic, i suppressed my cravings for RTSs with HW and HW2 but now no longer, i can play an RTS game with infantry again (though i will still play HW series).

[Beelzebuddy]

Elite guard, you're probably disappointed with the friendly AI because your timing did not match its. Enemy AIs are so much harder because when one attacks, all attack. Your ally probably attacked when it thought it should, and you weren't there to back it up. It got creamed, and went and sulked in base because its partner was a newbie. Can you really blame it?

[Elite Guard]

Elite guard, you're probably disappointed with the friendly AI because your timing did not match its. Enemy AIs are so much harder because when one attacks, all attack. Your ally probably attacked when it thought it should, and you weren't there to back it up. It got creamed, and went and sulked in base because its partner was a newbie. Can you really blame it?

- Apollo, i don't think you understood where i was coming from. My timing has nothing to do with anything. The Allied AI should have been in sync with the enemy AI, which it clearly wasn't.

I was slugging it out with 2 AI comps, both employing Dreads and Whirlwinds while my AI partner was running around with 1 (YES 1!) squad of SCOUTS (yes, SCOUTS). Nothing more. His base consisted of HQ, Barracks and Armory (although he held a good number of res points).

Why is my partner using scouts when the enemy has already teched to Dreads and Artillery? THAT is what I want to know.