SM Chapters & Chaos

[Bolter Shell]

Okay what do you think to the probability of current SM chapters turning to choas are?

And dont give me that SMs are true to the emp bs either, because it didnt stop thep before and according to fluff rouge marines join Chaos daily.

I think the Space Wolves have a good chance of turn traitor.
1. Russ comes back from the eye tainted so they join or
2. They jus join because they want more warfare.

Dark Angels might because
1. They realise that the imperium dont care about them and
2. the decide that being fallen is way cooler.

gimme your views on current chapters turning Chaos.

[-_Phoenix_-]

Certain individual squads yes, but not entire chapters, at least not at the present time.

RE: the 2 examples you give -

SWs, being the pragmatic pack they are, would put Russ down like a stray dog. They wouldn't blindly follow him into chaos. As for the warfare angle, yes, in certain aspects they are bloodthirsty and savage, but they are also honourable. They have a genuine love for combat which leads to their actions, it isn't the mad rage of the Blood Angels for example.

DAs (and their successors) have done everything in their power to keep the knowledge of the fallen secret and track them down across the galaxy. They are are next to none outside of the chapter and the fallen themselves who know about it. Therefore after 10,000 years of this, they aren't suddenly going to turn around and the entire chapter turn to chaos or anything. The fallen are the source of the guilt the inner circle carries, in no way what so ever are they going to be seen as 'cool'.

The only chapters I can see turning to Choas are the Blood Angels and their successors. Not at the present time, but eventually, the Red Thirst and the Black Rage may escalate to uncontrollable levels. I believe they would destroy themselves before it got to that though.

[Noise Marine]

anyone got any fluff specifically on the Fallen?

[Bolter Shell]

First of all why would the SW kill Russ? ALL Space marines follow their Primarch first not the Emp.

Think about it the Emp is dead( Basicly) the marines get orders from some fools on Terra. Whats to stop them turning to Chaos?

BA wouldnt go traiter because it wouldnt help the Rage beacause they have nightmares of their primarchs death at the hands of Horus so why join Chaos, it would help the Rage at all.

Chapters follow there current leaders, every time a leader goes to chaos the marines with them do too, ( the Fallen) so if Mr Calgar or a chapter master gets shafted by the imperium ( Any more then they already do) why wouldnt they turn to Chaos?

Saying that they are loyal to mr Golden Throne isent a valid arguement because for various reasons half of the legions defected while he was alive. Now hes dead and the imperium is weaker and ruled by the lords of Terra ( Basicly) why not join chaos?

[shorno]

hmm i know a lot of people suggest that the SW chapter is corrupt, but they arnt they r arguably one of the most devout chapters out there jus cos they dont go around cutting themselves or testing their faith like some over zealous chapters out there doesnt meant nout! if russ was to come back tainted yes he would be put down the SM's arnt going to abandon 10,000 years of history because there dumbass primarch went and got corrupt. however the wulfen company that live in the eye arnt corrupt they r serving the last command given to them by Russ. Russ will come back and deliver the imperium along with all the other lost primarchs!!
my opinon :blah: :blah:

[Bolter Shell]

Pesonaly i think Russ was killed i the Eye Of Terror and all that Russ coming back talk is more imperium propaganda. But look at from a SMs angle,
1. Your primarch is dead/lost/quit the army to be a ballet dancer
2. You get suicidal orders from some humans who say they speack for the emp
3. the imperium has been getting weaker since the HH and new enemys are arriving daily
4. no free time apart from your 1 week a year.
5. the emp is a veg and may or may not come back and lead a so called great crusade to deafet mankinds enemies. ( Nids,Necrons,orks,The Legionns of Chaos, Tau and Elder) Yeah right.

6. Mars cant be trusted and will also soon be an enemy once the C'Tan their wakes up.
7. Chaos can (apparently) give you everything you want and more.

[-_Phoenix_-]

Bolter: Of all the chapters you could have used, SWs are the worst example. They're leaders are always being scrutnized and challenged by their underlings, its the way of the pack for the strongest to rise to the top.

If Russ returned and was tainted by chaos, they would besides themselves with grief, yes, but he would be killed without a moments hestitation. Bjorn himself would insist upon it out of respect of the man his friend used to be.

Re: Blood Angels, you misunderstand me. BAs fall to the Black Rage on the eve of battle. As it becomes worse it will happen more often. Over time it will degenerate further and further, until they can't fight without entire armies falling to the black rage and the Chaplains can't keep it in check. What happens then ? They will be excommunicated from the Imperium, be hunted by Inquistors and change into a pack of blood crazed and psychotic beasts with nothing but mindless slaughter and blood quenching on their mind.

In other words, they would be a step away from worshipping khorne.

This will be the ultimate fate of the Blood Angels, knowing this is what makes them the most truely noble chapter, as they most fight this fate with all their will every second of every day. This is also why the chapter's sanguinary priests try desperately to devise methods of halting the de-generation of the geneseed (such as sleeping in sarcophogai whilst their blood is cleansed) and why Mephistion is such a revered figure amongest the Blood Angels.

In case you haven't guessed, you really shouldn't be arguing this with a BA player :)

[Bolter Shell]

Thats what i mean the blood angels might be hunted by the imperium but wouldnt become Chaos. ( BA where my first army, they are the best chapter the Imp has)

[shorno]

yea i agree the BA r one of the most likely with all those bloody 'scuse the pun' black rage attacks might make them good fighters but way too close to the side of chaos . only exception could be mephiston though :beer: ..
anywayyyyyyyyyyyyys Russ rocks END OF. and yea i agree with phoenix ' worst example everrrrr' :fight:

[DarthFelth]

Russ wouldnt turn for starts, the 13th compant didnt why assume Russ would. Infact Russ went Chaos marine hunting.

Flesh Tearers are the most likly to turn to chaos as they are looking for any way they can to save the chaptor which is effected even more so than teh blood angels

[Coey]

Yes, a very bad example indeed. SW and DA both are the worst examples you could give. IF and the WS are more likely :p

[FerociousBeast]

Okay what do you think to the probability of current SM chapters turning to choas are?

And dont give me that SMs are true to the emp bs either, because it didnt stop thep before and according to fluff rouge marines join Chaos daily.

I think the Space Wolves have a good chance of turn traitor.
1. Russ comes back from the eye tainted so they join or
2. They jus join because they want more warfare.

Dark Angels might because
1. They realise that the imperium dont care about them and
2. the decide that being fallen is way cooler.

gimme your views on current chapters turning Chaos.

Heh heh. Chaos player's wet dream, nothing more.

Blood Angels? No, never happen. It is highly likely that someday they will turn into a slavering horde of blood sucking rampagers, but never even in that state would they allow themselves to go to Chaos. I mean come on! The thing that drives them crazy is the memory of their Primarch getting killed by a champion of Chaos!

[Elite Guard]

Flesh Tearers are the most likly to turn to chaos as they are looking for any way they can to save the chaptor which is effected even more so than teh blood angels

-Flesh Tearers? Well, at least they wouldn't have to change the chapter name if they traitored...

- :idea: Oh, or they can change the name to something witty, like "Flesh Terrors". Ha ha! No one? Nothing?

[DarthFelth]

:sniper: :bombface: elite guard :Slap: :wtf2: erm can i s;ap for that comment :slap: :slap: You dare mock my fav chaptor :slap:

Mr Beast i said Flesh Tearers, nnot Blood Angels, yes i agree with blood angels but i would really suggest you read about teh flesh tearers, they are the most likly to turn out of any loyal chaptor, trust me.

no to the person who said Space wolves

:sniper: :bombface: that really explains all my feelings on the matter

[ninjin]

The closest to blood angels turning to chaos would be killing an inquisitor or an overzealous group of "investigators" that pry too deeply into the Black Rage and call the Blood Angels bordering on the heretical.

Other than that, the Blood Angels will NOT turn to Chaos, considering Sanguinius was killed by Horus.

Also bear in mind, Blood Angels arent the only chapter that are reluctant to respond to a call for help.

As much as Flesh Tearers being utterly savage, they are still a splinter chapter of the Blood Angels, I doubt they would turn to chaos that easily.

[DarthFelth]

They are a splinter chaptor, they are very different, teh average marine only last 200 years before he falls to the black rage, they dont even have enough saine men to keep their numbers at half strength, people think the Cheif Chaplain is insaine. also i never said they would ;)

You also ahve to bear in mind that imperial army will fight along the Flesh tearers more than once, they are much more than savage, much more

[MacBeth]

the flesh tearers are proably the worst chapter to be taken into,ya live for 200 years than your a crazed man,worse off then even the blood angels death company.
DA and SW's are known for hateing chaos with a passion,and would never join them.
what of the iron hands?

[Robot Jesus]

the blood angels would fall, but not know it until it was too late.

they would fall sort of like that guy from warcraft 3
not realizing there following there enemy until there too fargon to care.

[WarewolfIX]

Iron Hands would never fall to Chaos. They're still ticked at the other loyal chapters for losing Ferrus. I can only imagine how much they hate the Traitor Marines. Plus when they were cleansing that subsector (forget the name) each marine had a daemon whispering temptations to them and not a single fell for it. Then there was that killing a third of the people to insure loyalty to the Imperium. Finally, they're much more likely to join the Necrons than Chaos.

[MacBeth]

I was saying in general of the hands,I wasent really saying just chaos.

[Toebot]

I would say the mantis warriors,executioners and the lamenters cause they all ready turned on the imperium once.

[NightBringer]

my chapter turned chaos as soon as i created them lol

they are a combined successor of the iron hands and imperial fists. like the alpha legion, they have cultists, except that this legion (unbeknownst even to the inquisistion) have control over an entire sector of the galaxy (far from terra), so can call apon entire regiments of traitor guard to use at their disposal.

[Dimension]

no offense, but making a chapter combined out of two of the most zealous anti-chaos marine chapters and have them turn... i dunno.

anyways, i don't think any first founding legions would turn at this point of time. and even if they did, they'd probably be killed by the original traitor marines, as there has been a lot of hate accumulating over the millenia.

that said, maybe the relictors might turn? they already use daemon weapons and things like that. if they lay their hands on the wrong item, their souls might become tainted forever.

also, flesh tearers are a good bet. they worked themselves into a blood frenzy when defending a civilian colony somewhere near armageddon or on armageddon. after they had slain all orks, they went and butchered and ate the civilians, often with their bare hands and teeth. this probably made khorne a really happy camper.

an entire sororitas chapter was witness to it.

[Iwata]

I'd recommend reading the Black Library novel "Soul Drinker" to get a good, first hand look at how a loyal chapter unwittingly falls to Chaos.

Great novel, and puts this argument in a good light.

Also, one last thing: Using the Dark Angels as an example is, in my opinion, wrong. Preciselly because they've been on the edge once, they've seen the price they payed. Their chapter torn in two, Calliban destroyed, and a secret mission for eternity.

I doubt they'd go down that path once more. If anything, it made them all the more zealous.

As for the chapters turning to chaos "on a daily basis", those are usually banned from the Imperium and hunted down. Look at the Word Bearers. Imperial overzealousness cost them a First-Founding chapter.

[DEATH_WATCH]

Blood Angels are they not vampires so i would think them but its always the quite ones

[Iwata]

No, Blood Angels are not "vampires".

When the Black Rage afflicts them, they get kinda like the turbo-maniacs in "28 Days Later", simply eager to rend flesh apart and kill those in their way in the most brutal way possible, although with some sense of self-control, like distinguishing friend from foe. In the rare occasions they survive in the battlefield, their super-human system collapses from the strain exerted upon it.

That's why they get thrown into the Death Company. But even within the Blood Angels, it's a rare phenomenon, not as common as people usually believe.

[FerociousBeast]

No, it's definitely suggested that they will drink blood on occasion. What do you think the "Red Thirst" is?

[Iwata]

When you torn a person limb from limb or rend their throat open with your teeth, you're likely to get a bad rep, but they don't drink blood.

I mean, they DO drink blood, but only in controlled, ritualized cerimonies led by the Sanguinary Priest.

The Red Thirst is a different issue altogether.

[Liberator11]

Some of the regiment/company of the IG turn to Chaos...due to millienia of neglect by their warmaster

[-_Phoenix_-]

Iwata, BAs do get the urge to rip people limb from limb and drink their blood. Observe Mephistion's special rules for proof.

Also Death Company who survive a battle don't collapse from strain. They are locked up in a tower (whose name escapes me ATM) on Baal. The entire idea of the Death Company is that they die in service of the Emperor instead of that slow death.

I must admit the fluff and in-game rules do contradict each other re: the number of BAs who succumb to the Red Thirst but thats just because otherwise you'd have a 2 man DC :)

[Iwata]

No, you don't quite follow me.

I know they have that urge for ultra-violence, which may or may not include drinking blood/eating flesh, but what I'm saying is that they are not vampires, in the sense that drinking blood is not their natural condition, nor is it required for their sustenance.

[FerociousBeast]

OK. Granted. However, they do drink blood, like vampires do, and on occasion, they really really REALLY want it. Like vampires.

But the sun doesn't make them steamy, fighting alongside the Black Templar's shoulder pads doesn't make them nauseous and they can brush their hair in front of the mirror.

[lschimmy11]

there is no way dark angels will turn choas they are to loyal but my bet relictors

[Lasgun_addict]

BAs? i dont think so,if you ask me the most likely chapter to turn is the relictors, they were just minding thier own buisness trying to turn chaos against itself, when along comes the inquisition and destroys one of thier fortress monasterys. bah, witch hunters.
_____________________________________________

victory is measured in blood, yours or your enemys.

[Capt.Shrike]

Let me get this straight....BA just have bad dream and ferociously start whooping every chaos ass for killing their primarch during heresy...DA going after the fallen or heretic bastard like cat and mouse chase the reason is their brethen was been tainted with chaos scratch and causes them shameless infront of everyone in imperium world.SW is one tough of the bitch yet they work closely together like a pack of wolf.No matter they are crazee, wild animal or cunning, they have their own pretty agenda..."BORN IN DARKNESS , SWORN TO JUSTICE".

P.S : neither Iron Hands would likely join necrons just because they use the same qualilty of the metals.

[Lion El'Jonson]

Dark Angels might because
1. They realise that the imperium dont care about them and
2. the decide that being fallen is way cooler.


er.....nop.
the DA's are eternaly loya to the emperor and despise the FALEN[urh i hate saying that word!! bad bad word!] they WIPED OUT hals their legion for the emperor's sake!! They DESTROYED their beloved home world caliban and the Lion fought with Luther [ahh another one of thoe words!] his sworn brother and saviour to the death [but neither of them died... luther went mad and Jonson now lies inside the Rock wating for the watchers in the dark to awaken him to save the emperor and humanity]

[101ST_Belial]

Every chapter mentiond here would be the most unlikely to turn. The Dark Angels and Space Wolfs have more chance of killing each other that turning to Chaos. Blood Angel as was already said. Hate Chaos dew to the death of there Primarch.

It's more likly a under powerd chapter to turn. but then not all of them, some would eather leave quietly. or kil the one's who would not turn. And thats as far as it would go. A founding Chapter would not turn.

[Capt.Shrike]

I would rather give away the flesh tearers to the chaos...they suck up actually.