Homeworld 2 Complex 8.4.3

[Gotcha]

Well, the "Repair yard" already exists; it's the Shipyard with the Repair Module. That's how I use it anyway. :dance:

Only cap ships are allowed to come back and get repair, usually. Anything the size of a frigate or smaller isn't worth the time (travel and repair time). Just make sure they take as many ennemies down as possible before they go down too.

[F-86]

well i was thinking the repair yard/station would be cheaper to field than a big ass expensive shipyard. im thinking the cost of a destroyer. high HP, add a pair o flak cannons and shrink the "repair field" radius.

[Pete J]

Juggernaughty said:


The shuttle is a strike craft support ship. According to Behgins' description, it has high speed and armor ratings, and a large docking bay.

Surely that's the role of the carrier?

Does anyone know exactly how the trade containers work? Do you receive the amount of RUs each year?I haven't noticed any advantage in building more than one and the optimum range for profit is to hold 30000-90000 RUs in stock.

Thank you all.

[Juggernaughty]

Yes, that is one of the roles of a carrier. However, the shuttle is a more specialized unit for the task. So that you get a faster more resiliant ship with a larger docking bay and you won't be risking all sorts of expensive equipment on one of your valuable production ships. AND you won't have to waste your ships' time that could be spent replenishing the troops and serving as a resource drop point.

[shadow51689]

The Shuttle was supposed to be able to house many more fighters than a carrier. I don't know if it had production capabilities (guessing no?), so the Carrier is also more of a production ship.

[DJGspinNHitz]

I had a CTD in my currant game where to I look to find the cause?
GQ

[beghins]

New Web site on-line, it introduces the imminent 5.3, some bug fixing and new improvements are available in the "Work In Progress" section; hope you like it.
If someone with good English school wants to corrects or to improve the Site Content I will be very glad, it's sufficent that you mail to me a readme.txt with the content correction, thanks Ciao.

[Juggernaughty]

Behgins. I'd be happy to assist with the grammar on the web site. I'm only a high school student but English is my primary language. And whenever I get a new computer I'd also be happy to correct anything in-game.

[Osenefous]

Does anyone know exactly how the trade containers work? Do you receive the amount of RUs each year?I haven't noticed any advantage in building more than one and the optimum range for profit is to hold 30000-90000 RUs in stock.

As far as i have been able to tell, every time a trade container docks you get the amount of rus that your trade container is worth at the time. So if it is worth 400 rus, when you dock your tradecontainer gives you 400 rus, this is at least how i think i saw it working. If you have enough and enough dockable ships it is VERY profitable. So when you have more trade containers it is better, but even better is having more trade containers, more carriers and shipyards, and more money when you start the trading. The shipyards and carrier will allow support for the trade containers, as having lines of them wating to dock it annoying, having more of the trade containers oibviously means more profit, and having more rus gives you a better amount of rus each time a trade container docks.

One thing i am not sure of is the percentage, does it take the percentage form the total you have earned that year, or what you have on you. I ask this because at one point in one of my games i noticed i had negative ru trade, i have 157k at the time, but if it is based of of profit, then i understand that.

I would be happy to correct the stuff in game, let me take a look at it.

[DJGspinNHitz]

OKay I am going to try asking this again:
I have NO SOUND when playing the MOD, is this normal or is there something wrong. I have and English (US) version of the game. IF there is supposed to be sound what could the problem be and how can I fix it?
Thanks
GQ

[Pete J]

DJGspinNHitz said:


OKay I am going to try asking this again:I have NO SOUND when playing the MOD, is this normal or is there something wrong. I have and English (US) version of the game. IF there is supposed to be sound what could the problem be and how can I fix it?

Keep your hair on old man!

First I'm going to ask the obvious questions:

Does the sound work when the mod is not installed?
Do you have patch v1.1 installed?
Are the volume knobs turned up in the options menu?
Are your speakers turned on? :jest:

Does the 1.1 patch work with the US version BTW?

Beyond that I can't help.

P.S. Thanks for the reply Osenefous.

[DJGspinNHitz]

Hair is on still, thankfully.
Answer is yes sound worked before MOD installed, all volume controls to max in game and on PC, yes patch 1.1 installed. Seems to only be a problem with the MOD installed, is the mod looking for the sound file in the wrong place maybe?
Thanks for the reply, any ideas?
GQ

[DJGspinNHitz]

Finally got sound after a full unistall and re-install of the game, patch, and MOD. Must have been something wrong in the original install that was causing the sound files not to be read when using the MOD.

[blade_wing]

this mod is great.. though it would be nice if theres more of a simple manual explaining stuff.. and urrr.. jus wonderin..wads those crew containers that come out of the crew quarters..?

[Juggernaughty]

Blade wing, if you go to www.homeworld2complex.com and go to the feautures page it gives a list of everything that's new with this mod, and it also lists functions for all the new modules etc. I don't know if it'll help but at least you'll know what does what.

[DJGspinNHitz]

I captured the mining base then lost it but continued to recieve RU's this may be a bug in the MOD. Could a map be made with more than 1 mining base? Also 1000RU per year per Collector seems high to me. Maybe it should be based on something like research up grades or should increase like 1 collector=100 RU/year 2=300 RU/year 3=600 RU/year ect. Just ideas. Also could the mining base have weapons up grades for personal protection?
thanks
GQ

[Yargnit]

1000 per year really doesn't seem any higher than what you could make with the same collectors in a years time with upgrades to them. (less than 3 trips to the resources and back) It's a rare 1 item type thing, so it has to be enough to be worth using. Expesially since if you are using it your enemey always know exactly where you are.

[blade_wing]

hmms.. lols.. cheer juggernaught.. oh well.. it does help.. oh .. is it jus me or is the mod a lil slow moving.. i started off wif a mothership den did the usual rush for carrier to extend resourcing.. but 15 mins into the game i am still strapped on cash. even wif me mothership having a resource module on it.. resourcing was very very very slow..........

[Juggernaughty]

Build a mobile refinery and a couple of collectors and send them to a remote asteroid cluster prefferably behind you, that'll speed thing up a lot. And also research as many harvesting speed upgrades as you can, that'll help. And also make sure you're not building too many ships and modules and researching stuff all at once, if you've got multiple production queus going, I'd switch between building one module on one ship or researching one item at a time. So you don't have too much RU drain. You'll get full speed on production, but you'll still be getting modules and research done.

[DJGspinNHitz]

Never really thought about how much a single research collector collects in a year. However there is still the bug issue that is you lose the mining base you still get the RUs every year.
@ Blade Wing I agree the MOD is alittle slow for the first 30 minutes or so until you get some upgrades done. What I find difficult is getting a number of offensive craft built before spending all my time fighting off attacks from 2 or 3 Vagyr every couple minutes. The Vagyr don't have a research ship and stuff so they go right to work building bombers and fighters and come at you. I notice that the vagyr often have 50,000 or more RU 30 minutes in while I or other Hig's only have 100 or less. This mean they are out producing us and if they where smart they would build right up to BC and wipe us out before we even got a destroyer off. I suggest some kind or harvest rate advantage to the Hig's while balancing it with a cost advantage to the Vagyr. it is also why I suggested modules base on areas like weapons, resources, engines, ect instead of the 3 modules system in place now. BUt you do have to admit the MOD is totally awesome!! to play even with its quirks.
GQ

[Juggernaughty]

I suggest that Beghins just gives the Vaygr their own economical make over like he did with the Hiigarans. Not only would it fix this current problem, but make the MOD even better by making the play styles even more unique with each race. If not that, then just give the Vaygr the same stuff that he did the Hiigarans to fix the problem. Custom models of a Research Station and a Crew station for the Vaygr would take a while. But then again, making a new unique economy system for the Vaygr would too...

[blade_wing]

lol.. oh well.. haha.. tru tru DJG..was gonna mention as well how the vagyr always seems to be able to throw stuff at you before u are ready.. i had like ZERO offensive ships cos i was hyped on resourcing.. and then they came.. and i was still hard pressed on cash so i could nt produce any ships... well.. so ya.. was hopnig something could be done bout dat.. well.. guess we'd af to wait for the nxt release when vagyr tech tree gets fixed.. though i really wished to see the game sped up heaps...

[FenrirStriker]

Maybe make the Vaygr some kind of scavenger economy type.....
just an idea.

And the gamespeed is quite slow for Multiplayer online play. My and my mate tried playing, but it gets boring quite fast if you don't have anything to do and keep hearing "insufficient resources" every 30 seconds.

[blade_wing]

oh well.. the depressing insufficient resources.. fair enough. :P entirely true though.. hearing that often enough usually means you are seriously not getting anyway in the near future..

[Gotcha]

5.3 released today... :elephant: Downloading at the mo... 12 kb/s aaaargh....

How 'bout making the Vaygr a HomeWorld 2 "klingon-like" race? You know, improved boarding tech (assault units, kind of teleported, because close combat is always a favorite), heavily armed (and/or armored) ships with decent technology but dreadful weapons. Weapons being used more to disable the prey until it is boarded than to destroy it.

They really need new units too. One new advanced fighter or bomber, maybe a Destroyer with boarding :) , maybe improved cloaking :) .

[DJGspinNHitz]

Played 5.3 twice today and both time I had CTD, once after only 20 minutes the other after 2 hours.
Homeworld2.exe caused an Access Violation in module Homeworld2.exe at 001b:00439191.
Error occurred at 9/11/2006 14:01:02.
Homeworld2.exe, run by Gallus Quigley_2.
Microsoft Windows XP?.
1 processor(s), type 586.
768 MBytes physical memory.
Read from location 0000000c caused an access violation.
is what the error log says. If this is the wrong piece of info needed please tell me where to look for what you need to find the cause.
Thanks for all your work on the MOD
GQ

[jjwinter]

I've had CTD's with 5.3 also, played as Hiigaran, I saved just before it crashed, and can re-create it. Whenever the Vagyr attempt to take the Megalith from me (just by moving inflitrators towards it), it crashes.

[beghins]

I've had CTD's with 5.3 also, played as Hiigaran, I saved just before it crashed, and can re-create it. Whenever the Vagyr attempt to take the Megalith from me (just by moving inflitrators towards it), it crashes.
Can you send me your saved game? beghins@homeworld2complex.com

[Guardian_2000]

If people are having problems with game speed you could always up the number of resource collectors starting out with and the initial resources. I actually like the time in the beginning to plan my strat and the early game really makes you think more about micro management and what you should get accomplished. You really shouldn't be able to just jump in flash out some collectors and go at it with the ships.

While I'm disappointed that the Vagyr don't seem to be getting any love. I can understand that there faster gameplay is part of that. One unit I would like to see for vagyr would be something similar to the leech or defense drones of Cataclysm. If it was similar to the capture vessels or even the collectors it could attach and then leech off RU or do hull damage. I miss those microships from Cataclysm and think it would be great to see a return in HW2.

Other than that I'd like to say thanks to the developers of this mod for such a great experience. I've had a blast playing this since the first release. The indepth gameplay makes it extremely enjoyable. Especially recently you've been quick on the bug squashing and its looking fantastic. Can't wait to see your future work. Although I'm a ship whore myself its cool seeing a mod introduce so many new mechanics.

[AzMiLion]

i can't get a good resource system going in the mod.any tips anyone?

[DJGspinNHitz]

Well getting resources cetainly isn't easy. After teh Mother Ship appears I set the 7 collector to work and move the mother ship as close a possible to the resource. I build the research ship, 1 mobile refinery and 3 more collectors. I build a corvette and harvest modules. I then que 3 more refineries. As soon as I can research harvest upgrades. 1st the load, 2nd harvest, than refinery RU. By this point I should have qued 5 gunship corvettes. I'll move 2 of them above the remaining refineries. Use the pause feature so not everything isn't running at once. Once nearly all of that is done I research pulsar tech and drop off rate. As soon as it looks like I can I research the RU upgrade for the refinery. At this point your Refineries should produce enough RUs to pay your yearly costs and then some. I then research defense and offense towers pausing them often to keep build the 5 pulsar corvettes I que up. Once I have about a 3000 ru buffer I work on the destroyer and its up grades while slipping in another refinery here and there. This should get you through the early part of the game with a surplus of RUs. After that your on your own to build what works for your game. I would suggest researching all the harvest up grades you can afford. I play larger maps against 4 Vagyr and 1 Hig for a ally. All set to standard, sometimes 1 set to hard. (All the Vagyer are Allied together.
Good luck
GQ

[Gotcha]

Well, getting RU's isn't that hard. The trick is not to get hit in the back by the maintenance cost of your fleet. Updrades on existing combat units may prove more useful than building a couple of new units.

Playing Hiig, collectors set to 5, high res multiplier, starting resources 1000:

- Build 1 collector
- When the first collectors head back with RU's, start building a Harvest module.
- I usually build a Fighters module and an Advanced Senors Array
- Build 3 more collectors, send them to another (the nearest other) resource zone.
- Build 1 Mobile Refinery, send it to the other resource operation where you've sent your new collectors.
- Build a second Refinery, send it near the collectors working under the protection of your Mothership.

Refineries are more guns to protect your collectors, and they're very useful to speed up resource collection.

- Build 1 more collector and send it to the other group far from your Mothership.

- Start building fighters, not too many (3 to 5), but start building the research station very quickly.

At this point maintenance must be watched. Don't build units you don't need or in great numbers if they do nothing most of the time. Like, unless you've decided to seek and destroy the resource collectors of all your opponents, don't build many Interceptors. They're mostly there to destroy ennemy probes and scouts, at first. The only good protection for your own collectors is your mothership, and a few other cap ships like the stations and a carrier.

5 Gunships, or even better, 5 Flak frigates will be enough to ruin a neighboor's resource ops and the flights of fighters sent to defend them.

A good flight of bombers must follow. Build 7-8. Not less than 5. With them you're quite more armed against the occasional early frigate rush, and later they'll be very useful against destroyers and more dangerous frigates.

[AzMiLion]

thanks for the advice,just played a few games and that strat works pretty good,i had a few destroyers out with some corvette support,pretty much destroyed everything :D

[Babbo]

Yes, "RU upgrade for the refinery" (as mentioned above) or "RU fusion" (as it is called in the game) is the key point. Also, something that applies as a relative RU increase, try to catch some collectors from your opponents in a very early phase ...

Ah, and not to forget: Beghins and crew, you did a great job on that new release (even if I'd like to have a better performing system now ... and I thought I had one ... :D)!

[Solarmech]

Very nice work on this mod. I have beaten the computer twice vs expert AI. (it is NOT easy) and have noticed a couple of things. As noted other placed the Vayger don't seem to be building a BC very fast. One game that went over 100 years the one Vayger player didn't build a shipyard until after I killed the MS. In the next game it did build a shipyard (late in the game, building the SY only after a couple of carriers killed?)and a BC (to bad for it a Juggernaught was almost on top of it when it came out :) ) But I noticed that the Vager destroyers where not fireing missiles. They only fired their guns. Rather odd. I assume it's a bug with the AI. Keep up the good work! sm

[AzMiLion]

how does the recycle unit function work after you've researched it?
i can't figure it out..
Also,having a blast with the mod.it's GREAT

[Pete J]

@AzMiLion: The recycle function means that you get RUs back when you retire a ship or module, otherwise you get nothing.

As for resourcing, I get on fine with ten resource collectors next to the mothership with a harvest module and a shipyard as an extra docking platform. Just remember to upgrade the resource collectors when the opportunity presents itself, as well as building a trade container per mothership / shipyard / carrier and researching maintenance upgrades.

The Hiigaran mothership, when upgraded, has more than ample defense. I find that I can hold off the enemy long enough to produce battlecruisers as my first offensive unit!

[WARDUDE]

can't get shortcut to open after i mod properties.get target box not valid.not the best at this.what am i doing wrong.

[DJGspinNHitz]

Make sure the -mod Complex53.big is after the quotes and that should work

[WARDUDE]

told you i was going blond.thanks,Ken

[fu12]

Whenever I play the mod, its got odd skippy moments (it freezes for a sec and goes on). After 20min or so, the game crashes and dies, but my comp doesnt. I may have an old bordering on obsolete laptop, but it runs HW2 just fine at lo-ish res, and runs other mods for hours on end. Anyone have an idea as to why this would happen?

[ArcTrooper1773]

This isn't intended to be sarcastic, but look at the mod name :P

Complex is the most... (I'm loathe to say complex here :rolleyes: ) complicated XD mod out there. It's got far more than any other mod has, so it takes up a lot more of grunt in your CPU. As it's a laptop as well, you've lost some power to start with (They're always going to be underpowered compared to an equally-priced desktop). Lo-res sometimes helps, but some of the ships in complex (like the research station and juggernaught) don't have a low-res counterpart- so they're at full detail. As long as you have around 15-20fps, it should be easily playable.

Do you have an error log for your CTD? (That's Cut To Desktop- the game crashing but the computer surviving).

[fu12]

well, heres the error log. I'm not exactly program savvy, so ive got no idea what it means.

Homeworld2.exe caused an Access Violation in module atioglxx.dll at 001b:690c5090.
Error occurred at 9/15/2006 14:48:20.
Homeworld2.exe, run by justin_lee.
Microsoft Windows XP?.
1 processor(s), type 586.
447 MBytes physical memory.
Read from location 10f52000 caused an access violation.

MiniDump saved to file 'C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\Homeworld\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\9-15-2006_14_48_20_MiniDump.dmp'

Registers:
EAX=00000020 CS=001b EIP=690c5090 EFLGS=00010212
EBX=00000004 SS=0023 ESP=00129004 EBP=000083f2
ECX=00000004 DS=0023 ESI=10f52000 FS=003b
EDX=16ab1480 ES=0023 EDI=16aa5ff0 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
f3 a5 8b c8 83 e1 03 f3 a4 8b 4c 24 14 8b 51 48

Call Stack:
0x690C5090: atiPPHSN ()

Stack dump:
Exception encountered during stack dump.


Module list: names, addresses, sizes, time stamps and file times:
C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\Homeworld\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Memory.dll, loaded at 0x00320000 - 33280 bytes - 3fe0ce01 - file date is 12/17/2003 13:43:30
C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\Homeworld\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Platform.dll, loaded at 0x00330000 - 98304 bytes - 3fe0ce5f - file date is 12/17/2003 13:45:04
C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\Homeworld\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Debug.dll, loaded at 0x00350000 - 10752 bytes - 3fe0cdfd - file date is 12/17/2003 13:43:26
C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\Homeworld\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Localizer.dll, loaded at 0x00360000 - 94208 bytes - 3fe0ce59 - file date is 12/17/2003 13:44:58
C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\Homeworld\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\FileIO.dll, loaded at 0x00380000 - 155648 bytes - 3fe0ce52 - file date is 12/17/2003 13:44:50
C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\Homeworld\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\ZLib.dll, loaded at 0x003b0000 - 49152 bytes - 3fe0ce3b - file date is 12/17/2003 13:44:28
C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\Homeworld\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\lua.dll, loaded at 0x003c0000 - 73728 bytes - 3fe0ce66 - file date is 12/17/2003 13:45:12
C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\Homeworld\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\luaconfig.dll, loaded at 0x003e0000 - 57344 bytes - 3fe0ce6b - file date is 12/17/2003 13:45:16
C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\Homeworld\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\util.dll, loaded at 0x003f0000 - 36864 bytes - 3fe0ce7e - file date is 12/17/2003 13:45:34
C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\Homeworld\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Homeworld2.exe, loaded at 0x00400000 - 5562368 bytes - 527a5220 - file date is 12/23/2003 20:21:42
C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\Homeworld\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\divxmedialib.dll, loaded at 0x00970000 - 86016 bytes - 3f3bc007 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:08:56
C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\Homeworld\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\DivxDecoder.dll, loaded at 0x00990000 - 397312 bytes - 3f3bc002 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:08:56
C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\Homeworld\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\FileParser.dll, loaded at 0x00a00000 - 86016 bytes - 3f3bc005 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:08:56
C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\Homeworld\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\hw2box.dll, loaded at 0x00a20000 - 9728 bytes - 3fe0ce78 - file date is 12/17/2003 13:45:28
C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\Homeworld\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\objects.dll, loaded at 0x00a30000 - 1093632 bytes - 3fe0cfaa - file date is 12/17/2003 13:50:36
C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\Homeworld\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\console.dll, loaded at 0x00be0000 - 5632 bytes - 3fe0cf2d - file date is 12/17/2003 13:48:30
C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\WCATHK.dll, loaded at 0x021e0000 - 11776 bytes - 39202d07 - file date is 5/15/2000 19:59:52
C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\Homeworld\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\GL.dll, loaded at 0x02b90000 - 294912 bytes - 3fe0cfbd - file date is 12/17/2003 13:50:54
C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\Homeworld\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\seFDAudio.dll, loaded at 0x0cf90000 - 40960 bytes - 3fe0cee8 - file date is 12/17/2003 13:47:20
C:\WINDOWS\IME\SPGRMR.DLL , loaded at 0x0e8c0000 - 62976 bytes - 411096db - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:30
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\INK\SKCHUI.DLL, loaded at 0x0e8e0000 - 364607 bytes - 3a8110e6 - file date is 2/7/2001 02:17:02
C:\Anime\(fu u suck)WatchCat\Homeworld\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\gslobby.dll, loaded at 0x10000000 - 135168 bytes - 3fe0cf28 - file date is 12/17/2003 13:48:24
C:\WINDOWS\system32\msi.dll , loaded at 0x11900000 - 2890240 bytes - 42764c85 - file date is 5/4/2005 14:45:32
C:\WINDOWS\system32\xpsp2res.dll , loaded at 0x20000000 - 2897920 bytes - 411096b9 - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:36
C:\WINDOWS\system32\dxdiagn.dll , loaded at 0x4f680000 - 2113536 bytes - 41109696 - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\dbghelp.dll , loaded at 0x59a60000 - 640000 bytes - 4110969a - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\uxtheme.dll , loaded at 0x5ad70000 - 218624 bytes - 411096bb - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\umdmxfrm.dll , loaded at 0x5b0a0000 - 13312 bytes - 3b7dfeb9 - file date is 3/30/2003 19:00:00
C:\WINDOWS\system32\NETAPI32.dll , loaded at 0x5b860000 - 332288 bytes - 44b7b8db - file date is 7/14/2006 08:31:40
C:\WINDOWS\ime\sptip.dll , loaded at 0x5c2c0000 - 250880 bytes - 41109745 - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\serwvdrv.dll , loaded at 0x5cd70000 - 14848 bytes - 3b7dfebb - file date is 3/30/2003 19:00:00
C:\WINDOWS\system32\comctl32.dll , loaded at 0x5d090000 - 611328 bytes - 411096af - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\opengl32.dll , loaded at 0x5ed00000 - 713728 bytes - 411096f8 - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:44
C:\WINDOWS\system32\mslbui.dll , loaded at 0x605d0000 - 25088 bytes - 4110972f - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:44
C:\WINDOWS\system32\LPK.DLL , loaded at 0x629c0000 - 22016 bytes - 411096aa - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\SynTPFcs.dll , loaded at 0x63000000 - 65536 bytes - 3ecd82f1 - file date is 5/22/2003 14:09:00
C:\WINDOWS\KATRACK.DLL , loaded at 0x637c0000 - 28672 bytes - 44cf59b9 - file date is 8/1/2006 09:42:12
C:\WINDOWS\system32\GLU32.dll , loaded at 0x68b20000 - 122880 bytes - 41109697 - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\atioglxx.dll , loaded at 0x69000000 - 6189056 bytes - 40a6c793 - file date is 5/15/2004 18:44:58
C:\WINDOWS\system32\WS2HELP.dll , loaded at 0x71aa0000 - 19968 bytes - 411096f3 - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\WS2_32.dll , loaded at 0x71ab0000 - 82944 bytes - 411096f2 - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\WSOCK32.dll , loaded at 0x71ad0000 - 22528 bytes - 411096ff - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\msacm32.drv , loaded at 0x72d10000 - 20480 bytes - 3b7dfe2a - file date is 3/30/2003 19:00:00
C:\WINDOWS\system32\wdmaud.drv , loaded at 0x72d20000 - 23552 bytes - 411096c6 - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:58
C:\WINDOWS\system32\DDRAW.dll , loaded at 0x73760000 - 266240 bytes - 411096a0 - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\DCIMAN32.dll , loaded at 0x73bc0000 - 8704 bytes - 4110969f - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\KsUser.dll , loaded at 0x73ee0000 - 4096 bytes - 411096ad - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\dsound.dll , loaded at 0x73f10000 - 367616 bytes - 411096d4 - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\MSCTF.dll , loaded at 0x74720000 - 294400 bytes - 411096ea - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\OLEACC.dll , loaded at 0x74c80000 - 163328 bytes - 3b7dfe1e - file date is 3/30/2003 19:00:00
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C:\WINDOWS\System32\wbem\wbemprox.dll, loaded at 0x74ef0000 - 18944 bytes - 411096c2 - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\System32\wbem\wbemcomn.dll, loaded at 0x75290000 - 214528 bytes - 411096bc - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:46
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C:\WINDOWS\system32\IMM32.DLL , loaded at 0x76390000 - 110080 bytes - 411096ae - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\NTDSAPI.dll , loaded at 0x767a0000 - 67072 bytes - 411096c9 - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:44
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C:\WINDOWS\system32\DNSAPI.dll , loaded at 0x76f20000 - 148480 bytes - 44a01b46 - file date is 6/26/2006 10:37:10
C:\WINDOWS\system32\WLDAP32.dll , loaded at 0x76f60000 - 172032 bytes - 411096bb - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\CLBCATQ.DLL , loaded at 0x76fd0000 - 498688 bytes - 42e5be90 - file date is 7/25/2005 21:39:44
C:\WINDOWS\system32\COMRes.dll , loaded at 0x77050000 - 792064 bytes - 411096b4 - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\oleaut32.dll , loaded at 0x77120000 - 553472 bytes - 411096f3 - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:44
C:\WINDOWS\system32\WININET.dll , loaded at 0x771b0000 - 658944 bytes - 449bca5b - file date is 6/23/2006 04:02:52
C:\WINDOWS\WinSxS\x86_Microsoft.Windows.Common-Controls_6595b64144ccf1df_6.0.2600.2180_x-ww_a84f1ff9\comctl32.dll, loaded at 0x773d0000 - 1050624 bytes - 4110968c - file date is 8/4/2004 00:57:00
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C:\WINDOWS\system32\CRYPT32.dll , loaded at 0x77a80000 - 597504 bytes - 41109691 - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:42
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C:\WINDOWS\system32\MSACM32.dll , loaded at 0x77be0000 - 71680 bytes - 411096cf - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\version.dll , loaded at 0x77c00000 - 18944 bytes - 411096b7 - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:46
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[skyraiser9]

I like the directories that say "Fu u suck"

[Juggernaughty]

Lol, me too.

[DJGspinNHitz]

Some thoughts:
5 player maps so I can play 2 on 3.
Ion destroyer: eliminate need for chassy build and only need to research Ion Weapons to allow building of it.
More AI maps
Platform module becomes platform facility so it doesn't take up a module slot.
just thoughts.
Also game crashes on any map with a mining base that I have played so far.
GQ

[yacoub]

cant you just play a 6 player map with 2 v 3 and leave a slot empty?

[DJGspinNHitz]

I forgot this game has the empty slot...blond moment!! @#$%

[Juggernaughty]

Blonde*

[Destroid]

Ive recently been playing a few rounds of Complex 5.3 multiplayer with a few friends and we have found that, put simply, Hiigara really has got nothing to offer compared to Vaygr, and selecting Hiigara as your race is suicide.

It seems to boil down to the slower harvest rate of hiigaran harvesters, the additional expense required to increase tech levels and crew and the fact that you are far more restricted as to what tech you can access without increasing rank. While you are stuck with your basic ships, Vaygr can be cranking Multilance/Storm Corvettes or Artillery/Warfare frigates. (vaygr also get cheaper upgrades)

SO is complex intented to only be a singleplayer mod? Or are there some l33t Hiigaran strategies that I just havn't thought of yet that somehow redeem them?

[Osenefous]

It may be harder to play as higaaran but in no way is it suicide. I have found that thye have faster harvest speeds than the vaygr, but may just be me. My startegy is to use my mothership and platforms as defense, as soon as you have mobile refineries you need to move out your mothership to the battle lines. If your having a lot of difficulty then don't research as much, or at all. You can still build ships witohut research, you arent as effective, but it helps the higaarans down the road. Resource patches and the mining base are very useful. As soon as you can, or feel comfortable doing so, you should build a carrier, the production capability a carrier gives you is needed dearly, also it frees up your mothership for other things. Juggernaughts have been my saviour playing as higaaran many times. They are useful for annihalating incoming fleets and should be used frequently, at least i think so.

Also, i think the juggernaughts are a little too powerful, i can take 4 and annihalate anything, 1 is enough to save you from any incoming fleet. I can solely use battlecruisers and juggernaughts in the later stages of the game and clean up very easily.

[Destroid]

Hiigaran harvesters actually have a harvest rate of 4 vs 5 for vaygr harvesters.. they carry more but they are also slower.

I have never made it to juggs in a multiplayer game so I cant really comment on how effective they are. As far as getting the MS up to the battle lines.. its worthless unless you research its upgraded weapons and torps and you put a fire con + def module on it.. and if you rely on your MS for mobile firepower then your enemy is going to spam laser corvs :( unfortunately the laser corvs will dominate any frigates you build so your only real option is the Pulsar Corvette, which is powerful but I find it very hard to produce them in sufficient quantities (vaygr can get the Construction module early) to fend off the missile/storm corvs fast enough to save harvesters.

Defending your base isnt so much a problem at the start, but expanding IS as Vaygr tend to have more units and more mobile firepower as it isnt all tied up in the MS as it is with Hiigara at the start.

Also, a note about the mining base, Vaygr can get Infil frigs right from the start, Hiigaran need to rank up to get them.

[DJGspinNHitz]

whenever I player on anything above standard I get crushed about 45 minutes in. I can hold off the first waves but then I get ganged up on by like 30 frigates. My fleet of 10-15 pulsar get worn down then they send in 10 infiltrators and all is over. Sometime I am lucky and get a couple of destroyer out and last a little longer but I play 4 on 2 normally. 3 on 3 I can win even on hard but I have only won 1 game out numbered on anything above standard. I just can't get enough ships out there, hig frigates are a waste unless fully upgraded. They get wiped clean by opposing laser coverttes and frigates and repair to slowly to be ready for round 2. Also you max out really quick. In order to keep RUs flowing you need 10 collector and 3-5 refineries with fussion upgrades. That gives you room for 10 corvette squadrons. The Vagyr start pumping bombers and fighters out while your still waiting for your research ship and module. I love the idea but it makes for a really tough game early on, if you can get BCs out then you've won b/c they vagyr seem never to make them. I also noted that during a normal game the vagyr will have 40000-60000 RUs when I have maybe 1000. If the AI was smart they would build BCs and hyperspace them in and your history. They should be able to do this by the time you have unlocked destroyers and the rate the collect RUs. I know some people send collectors and a refinery to another RU patch but when playing out numbered they just get wiped out in the first or second wave. I rely on fussion RUs and build lots of refineries. They at least shoot back and can hyperspace with your MS if needed. You have 3-4 game years to prepare for the first attack on most maps no matter what level you play at. After that they hit you about every 1-2 years in larger and larger waves. I have though sometimes gotten a 5-10 year repreive after the first wave especially if I kill it really quick. I rarely can counter attack until I have BCs with out leaving my MS out to dry from other attacks.
GQ

[Destroid]

DJG, im not sure if that is a response to my comments, but I am specifically talking about multiplayer VS humans here, not the AI.

[F-86]

i was under the impression that Beghins has consentrated on filling out the Hig tech+biuld tree and really hasnt gotten to revamping the vaygr. also it seems that the vaygr kick ass early on but the Higs can steamroll them middle to late game. the vaygr need that early game advantage cause they dont have juggurnaughts or ion destroyers, vaygr capital shipping sucks comparatively. and the dispropotionate motherships are also to hig advantage. sure they start out the same but late game.... (*shivers*) it can take out fairly large fleet by itself. it balances out but i think the vagr need more capital ships. middle to late game thier destroyers are crap compared to higs

[DJ Die]

i can beat 5 expert AIs as Hig without problem(or with little problems) i also think higs are overpowered when it comes to cap ships fully upgraded MS can take out most ships with one shot from its ion cannon

[DJGspinNHitz]

DJ Die
tips on how you do that please

[BaalRoG]

i think that Destroid is right... f you play as hiigara, you dont stand a chance when a human player gets 1-2 battlecuisers with artilleryfrigates near your homebase...
too heavy for me...

battlecruisers shouldnt be that extreme like they are now...

[Destroid]

Ive only ever seen a battlecruiser in multi once... and I never even got to use it (I had already defeated both opponents).

Ill report back after I try a few more experiments with Hiigara... but dont expect much :/

Poor old higs.

[Yargnit]

Do you have any idea how expencive it *actually* is per BC to get them that powerful BaalRoG? The cost + the time it takes to get them is well-worth their power. If anything I'd like to see (what I had thought the deardnaught would be) a step up above the BC in power. Something I can send 1 of into a base to wipe it out, instead of the fleet of half a dozen BC's or more I have to send now.

[Osenefous]

The last thing we need is something more powerful than the bc. The bc is already so powerful, it makes no sense to need something more. If we do that then we lose the need for small fighters and frigates and any other incling of a fleet. The point of this game is strategy, to buiuld your fleet up strong in every area, the battlecruisers take that away. They are far to powerful against everything, we need to reduce there power so that they still need support ships or the late stages of this game will be boring as hell. Introduce another ship below the battlecruiser to act as a support ship, the destroyer is a useless support ship, it can barely keep up with my battlecruisers. Whatever you do, do not promote capital ships much farther, if you do the game loses its fun, it all becomes who can build the most battlecruisers, not who can build the most well-balanced fleet.

[shadow51689]

I'll still never forget the 4.3 match in which an expert Hiigaran CPU buillt TWENTY ONE Hiigaran battlecruisers...

I do agree with Osenefous, currently the small ships seem quite useless later in the game. Because the fighters' armor is unupgraded, and still take so long to build, they aren't of much use other than as a distraction for the stupid AI. Now sure, a micromanaged bomber squad with say interceptor distractions, and sniper frigs can own a BC, but when the other guy can build another BC, as well as half a dozen other frigates by the time the first BC goes up, the measly leftovers of your bomber swarm isn't gonna be much use, other then a quick way to lose a lot of honor. Plus even with upgraded Docking repair, it takes forever to repair fighters\corvettes.

Then there is the crew cost... the average Vaygr frig costs between 5-7 crew... an assault craft squadron costs 7. Yes, yes, there are 7 individual fighters in an AC squad, but still it seems kinda off balance to me... I can build more frigates as an Ensign than I can smaller ships!

[F-86]

Maybe take out all point def for the BC and add in something like the Light Destroyer from the Pirate mod? plus major armor ups for the fighters late game so thier usefull

[Pete J]

Fighters do lose usefulness in the later stages of the game.

Maybe a 'Top Gun' upgrade could be added? i.e. fighters are trained to dodge enemy fire, represented in-game by reducing the chance of hitting a fighter.

Just a thought!

[Yargnit]

I'm not saying fighters don't need a boost also, I just want something that is designed specifically to take out enemy BC's. Think a weapon combining the Ion Cannon's BC's have now, with the Vagyr BC's Trinity cannon. Each shot from the 3 guns doing something like 200-250k. (if 600k is enough to take out a BC with full armor and defencive control tower then make it 200k per shot, if not make it 250k because i know 750k is enough) Actually I also think it could be pretty sweet as a dual-or quad cannon instead of triple.

Also I do like the idea of an anti-fighter specialized capital ship. Make it like a heavy crusier or something along those lines, armed exclusivly with anti fighter/corvette weapons.

As far as increasing fighter usefulness, 2 possible ideas come to mind. Either one as a late-game researchable option. Option A would be to allow fighters/corvettes to research self-repair as well. Where option B would be to allow research where (preferable just for carriers to increase their stratigic use) can repair ALL fighters docked simultaniously instead of one at a time as they do now. (3 lvls, lvl1 is all at once, but 66% reduction in repair speed per unit. Lvl2 is 33% reduction in repair speed, while Lvl3 allows full repair speed per unit.) Either of those would make fighters and corvettes much more useful late-game. (Mineguns for me are extremely useful already, they can absolutely thrash and fighter/corvette assult, while still quickly owning frigates. I've even torn up a Carrier or Destroyer with them fairly easy) Another great fighter/vette upgrade would be to make them not take dmg from cap-ship explosions.

But whatever you do, don't weaken BC's. The Vagyr BC's feel WAY to gimped right now. Any weakening of the Higgy BC's & I'd probably just manually copy the current vesion of the BC overtop of it.

[shadow51689]

I think that the best option would be better AI flight paths\maneuvering for the light ships. I'm reminded of that today, as I just lost 6 gunships and 3 pulsars as they rammed into a Flagship, trying to take out it's workers...
Currently, the fighters cluster together, and charge into a battle. And, especially in fighter vs fighter, this results in a giant chain of explosions as opposing fighters collide. Also, the Hiigaran Gunships tend to make a wide circle around their targets - exposing them to enemy fire on the flanks and causing them to sometimes be out of range of their intended target!

I agree that repairing one ship at a time doesn't make much sense...

I'm opposed to anti fighter capital ships. Especially the Hiigaran BC with those Rapid Sweeprs that work now... Perhaps just slightly increasing the accuracy vs fighters of Frigate and Desty kenetic cannons? Atleast against Corvettes anway.

Of all the times I've played Vaygr (in 5.0+), I have yet to lose a battlecruiser, other than one, which was captured. (and promptly Trinitied) Vaygr BC's, granted, don't have the point defense of the Hiigaran ones... But that's why I don't use them without other escorts.

[Yargnit]

See, there are currently no viable escorts to even consider because the biggest anti-fighter ship avalible is a basic lvl frigate. If there were an anti-fighter cap ship then useing escorts instead of built-in point defences would be more viable, but as it is now there's no way I'm going to throw some weak & pathedic frig's into the middle of my BC armada. They just don't have the survivability. Even BC's don't have the damage absorbtion I'd like, but they're the best avalible. Really their defences don't start to shine until you stack hallf a dozen or more in close formation. About that time the ships in the center of the battlegroup finally start to break the 1-1.2 million HP mark with stacked defencive towers, and they finally have the survivability required to spearhead an attack into the enemy's BC's without high probability of losing a ship. (if 2 or 3 Vagyr BC's manage to get their full salve + trinity's off on one of your 20k RU BC's you'll be rethinking how overpowered you think they are)

The day I have to water my fleet down with smaller units to keep the fighters at bay will be the day I stop upgrading my Complex version. BC's are supposed to be an I-win in large numbers. What fleet in their right mind would leave their flagships completely vulnerable to smaller ships? Have you ever seen a WWII battleship? They don't just have their 4 triple 16inch guns & nothing else, they have tons of anti-air battery's and such as well.

[DJGspinNHitz]

I don't even bother with most frigates they just get blown to h*** so fast. What I think would make things better is a battle carrier with anti-frigate, corvette, and fighter upgrades. Well armored but not as much as a BC and can build and repair covettes and fighters only. Strictly a escort the BC ship, eliminate the JUG since Hig's don't commit suicide and make it a heavy destroyer or maybe a mining ship. To off set the BCs a light cruiser should be made, that is heavily armed but lightly armored and twice as fast a BC, they are cheaper to build maybe half the cost of a BC and can take a BC out with 4-5 good hits but could be taken out by 2-3 hits in return from a BC, also it should have a stand off range greater than a BC so you might want to send in small ships to take it out, another thought is a torpedo bomber squadran of 5 corvette size 2 person bombers that lauch a heavy anti capital ship torpedo. (Think Pearl Harbor) or some form of topedo boat (PT Boat or Sub) that could take down large ships if they were not escorted. I also was thinking that adding a space station (1 per player) to build the largest ships, shipyard and BC maybe instead of the MS. You would build the space station in parts and your RC would move it into place. (that may be too much I guess). Just put some thoughts out there. Great game and MOD though.
GQ

[jimmenybillybob]

complex 5.3 wont download. does any1 no y????????????????

[F-86]

one of the main ideas of the game is using combined arms tactics, yeah those WW2 BCs had lots o anti air but u never saw a fleet of only a dosen or so BCs. they all had escorts out the wazo cause all those guns were to make the ship have some anti-air defences, not to make it invulnerable to air power, the BCs job it to pound the crap out of large targets, taking out smaller stuff was for the escorts and support fighters. currently the hig BC has too much point def, u cant go near it w less than a dosen squads o bombers at least. i say take away the point def missles at least. also the heavier anti-fighter cap ship should be like a cross between a frigete and a destroyer. it would give it more survivability than a frig but not make it impossible to destroy with fighters. also i like the idea of a corvette-class heavy bomber, with the hig BC and motherships having that shitload of armor there needs to be a strikecraft with more bang.

[Yargnit]

A single BC really isn't invulnerable to strike craft at all. The only reason they seem so invulnerable it because of useing them in groups. I bet 2 dozen minegun squads would tear up a BC pretty swiftly, and with full manufacturing upgrades those things can pump out awfully fast. (remember a BC costs probably 15k+ RU's to fully build, how many squadrons of strike craft is that. I bet if you built that many squads they'd give the BC a good run at least)

[Juggernaughty]

Let's not forget how to take out subsytems! Why, all you really need to do is use some anti-sub bombers, kill any ion cannons on top, or a torpedo battery, basically any heavy weapon that can shoot above the BC, and then it's engines, and bring in some friggs from above. It's a sitting duck. Open for any small fleet to sit on top of it and rape it to death. Or capture it. :-)

OR just take out all of it's rapid sweepers with anti-sub fighters first, then bring in some heavy bombers and watch it fade away.

And I really like the idea of a corvette class heavy bomber. There's so many ways to be creative with that...

[HomerDOHSimpson]

1st. Very Cool mod and the weapon descriptions in HW2C are not so complex (hehe) as on the PDS Mod (but they have cool badges).

I have a question to the maps section. What do you mean with "AI not supported". When i play a map they seem to work *(ok the AI, as ALWAYS, is not able to build their weaponry on the Battlecruisers - the Hiigaran AI seems to be weaker than the Vaygr).

It would be cool if you have more and some Bigger maps... and some badges (ask the PDS team :rofl: )

* Hmm, i played one map and every AI Enemy came to me.

[Osenefous]

I've seen that one before, the ai had made a pact lol. The maps are not Ai supported because they have radiation fields in them (am i right or not?). The AI isnt sure on how to deal the radiation so they send unit after unit to there death. Never tried it but a friend has and thats what he said.

[Draconica]

HomerDOHsimpson- You can copy the badge files over I believe. I know back when I used to play with PDS and alot of the other mods, I tended to hoard badges. All my badge files work with the newest incarnation of Complex.

Its nice to see all the discussion. Complex is just such a wonderful mod. My crew here sends out props to the developers and supporters.

So now that the newest mod has been released, I'd just like to say we hope the excellent work continues. I'd gladly donate a little even to say thank you for all the time spent. Not that any amount of money can pay for the time and effort no doubt.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Vagyr get some love. They are hands down still superior, but I think that once they've been 'Complexed' they will be balanced so as to retain their 'playstyle differences' without being at the current advantage they are at.

Notes from the battlefield-
1.A captured mining base is too easily killed.
2.The loss of combat honor from losing a mining base is disproportionatly large. (Translation, losing it cripples your honor)
3. We love the little crew pods from the Crew station 'but' in Multiplayer, they are a dead give away to your opponent if you choose to 'hide' your station someplace on the map.
4. They AI's use of the mothership battlecannon seems weak. I've had it use the weapon one time on me, then forget to use it anymore. (not sure how malliable the AI for modding, so I'm just happy that it did use it once.)

Ideas for the future-
4. Maybe an 'upgrade' for marine-infiltrator frigates to be researched that prevents an enemy from 'scuttling' their ship onces the marine-infiltrators have captured it to a certain percent. Perhaps 75-50-25%.
2. some ideas about balancing the vagyr without crippling the different playstyle they use, but more on that down the road when the team starts working on the Vagyr side
3. We'd really like to see the ability to start with Carrier only battles.
4. Would you allow those of us who design maps to submit them to you for inclusion in future homeworld releases? My group is particularly fond of more 'vertical' maps with more 'obsticle' to give cause for skillful maneuvering. And I do a little map design and would love to send it in for your review and possible use.

Sincerly,
Fleet Na'Voi

[Mikali]

I hope you don't mind. I took the opportunity to edit the in-game help text for readability.



"Welcome to Complex 5.3. This is an explanation of your game parameters: Military rank, Honor, Crew and Officers, game Year, Research score, Maintenance cost and RUs. Also, we will speak about Mining bases, the Fusion ability, Trade Networks and the Remote Monitor ability."
"Military rank: represents your game career. An advancement in your career will permit you to recruit additional Crew and Officers. To further your career you will need to gain Honor. For example, at the moment your rank is Ensign; to advance your military career you need 30 Honor points."
"Honor: represents your game behaviour. To increase your Honor you need to build units and subsystems; research technologies and abilities; harvest RUs; and, most importantly, fight and kill enemy units. (Press the \"I\" key or the Honor icon for more details.)"
"Crew and Officers: you have a limited number of pilots and officers. At the moment, your fleet supports 150 pilots and 10 officers. Each ship needs a certain amount of pilots; and, each Capital ship need a certain amount of officers. For example, an Interceptor squadron will require 5 crew members; the Destroyer will require 15 crew members and 1 officer. To increase your Crew and Officers you must advance your Military rank and build Crew and Officer modules."
"Game year: represents the game time. At the end of every year certain game events will be processed. For example, at the end of the current year you will pay RUs to maintain your fleet (Maintenance cost)."
"Research score: represents your technology status. You need a certain level in this parameter to unlock the various technological levels/branches. To increase your Research score you must research abilities, technologies and upgrades for your ships."
"Maintenance cost: needs to be met in order to keep your fleet fully operational. Every ship requires a certain number of RUs each year for maintenance. The total Maintenance cost is subtracted at the end of the game year. If you don't have the requested amount of RUs, you will loose Honor points and the RUs will be subtracted from your production queues. If, on the other hand, you satisfy the RU request, you will gain Honor points."
"RUs: represent your primary resource, used in building and research. You will need a certain amount of RUs to build and upgrade your fleet. You can increase your RUs by harvesting asteroids, by researching the Fusion ability, by capturing Mining Bases, and by building a Trade Network."
"If a Mining Base is present on your map you can try to capture it using a Marine/Infiltrator frigate. Then, dock some Resource Collectors with the Mining Base. For each Resource Collector docked with the Mining Base you will receive RUs every game year."
"If you have built a certain number of Mobile Refineries, try and research the Fusion ability. Mobile Refineries will then generate RUs by themselves, and you will gain RUs every game year."
"If you have a considerable number of RUs in store, try to build a Trade Network. Trade Networks will generate RUs independantly of your resource operation by conveying Trading Containers between your production Capital ships."
"Using the Remote Monitor ability (unlocked by building a Advanced Sensors Array) you can monitor the fleet data of players whose level in the ability is less than yours. On the other hand, if their level in the ability is greater than yours, their data will remain protected. Keep in mind that other players can monitor your data too."
"The explanation of your game parameters has concluded. Good Luck, by Complex Team."

[Babbo]

Mikail and beghins, I hope that am I allowed to add that "independantly" could be improved to "independently" and that there are some capitals around, which I would change in addition (see "game Year"). Also, I suggest to change from "pilots; and, each Capital ship need a certain amount of officers." to "pilots and each Capital ship needs a certain amount of officers." (cancel ; insert s), "building a Advanced Sensors Array)" to "building an Advanced Sensors Array)" (insert n) and "Good Luck, by", e.g., to "Good Luck, Your".

Apart from that: as always ... thanks for that great mod!

[Gunner_626]

Is complex 5.3 made for skirmish games as well as Online play through the built in gamespy lobby?

[Gunner_626]

So there is Multiplayer on Gamespy for the Complex mod???

Complex 5.3 saved games will not work once Complex 5.4 has been installed when trying to load one of my games the game will CTD...

[Mikali]

Mikail and beghins, I hope that am I allowed to add that "independantly" could be improved to "independently" and that there are some capitals around, which I would change in addition (see "game Year"). Also, I suggest to change from "pilots; and, each Capital ship need a certain amount of officers." to "pilots and each Capital ship needs a certain amount of officers." (cancel ; insert s), "building a Advanced Sensors Array)" to "building an Advanced Sensors Array)" (insert n) and "Good Luck, by", e.g., to "Good Luck, Your".
Changed.


"Welcome to Complex 5.3. This is an explanation of your game parameters: Military rank, Honor, Crew and Officers, Game Year, Research score, Maintenance cost and RUs. Also, we will speak about Mining Bases, the Fusion ability, Trade Networks and the Remote Monitor ability."
"Military rank: represents your game career. An advancement in your career will permit you to recruit additional Crew and Officers. To further your career you will need to gain Honor. For example, at the moment your rank is Ensign; to advance your military career you need 30 Honor points."
"Honor: represents your game behaviour. To increase your Honor you need to build units and subsystems; research technologies and abilities; harvest RUs; and, most importantly, fight and kill enemy units. (Press the \"I\" key or the Honor icon for more details.)"
"Crew and Officers: you have a limited number of pilots and officers. At the moment, your fleet supports 150 pilots and 10 officers. Each ship needs a certain amount of pilots and each Capital ship, in addition, needs a certain amount of officers. For example, an Interceptor squadron will require 5 crew members; the Destroyer will require 15 crew members and 1 officer. To increase your Crew and Officers you must advance your Military rank and build Crew and Officer modules."
"Game Year: represents the game time. At the end of every year certain game events will be processed. For example, at the end of the current year you will pay RUs to maintain your fleet (Maintenance cost)."
"Research score: represents your technology status. You need a certain level in this parameter to unlock the various technological levels/branches. To increase your Research score you must research abilities, technologies and upgrades for your ships."
"Maintenance cost: needs to be met in order to keep your fleet fully operational. Every ship requires a certain number of RUs each year for maintenance. The total Maintenance cost is subtracted at the end of the game year. If you don't have the requested amount of RUs, you will loose Honor points and the RUs will be subtracted from your production queues. If, on the other hand, you satisfy the RU request, you will gain Honor points."
"RUs: represent your primary resource, used in building and research. You will need a certain amount of RUs to build and upgrade your fleet. You can increase your RUs by harvesting asteroids, by researching the Fusion ability, by capturing Mining Bases, and by building a Trade Network."
"If a Mining Base is present on your map you can try to capture it using a Marine/Infiltrator frigate. Then, dock some Resource Collectors with the Mining Base. For each Resource Collector docked with the Mining Base you will receive RUs every game year."
"If you have built a certain number of Mobile Refineries, try and research the Fusion ability. Mobile Refineries will then generate RUs by themselves, and you will gain RUs every game year."
"If you have a considerable number of RUs in store, try to build a Trade Network. Trade Networks will generate RUs independently of your resource operation by conveying Trading Containers between your production Capital ships."
"Using the Remote Monitor ability (unlocked by building an Advanced Sensors Array) you can monitor the fleet data of players whose level in the ability is less than yours. On the other hand, if their level in the ability is greater than yours, their data will remain protected. Keep in mind that other players can monitor your data too."
"The explanation of your game parameters has concluded. Good Luck, Your Complex Team."

[beghins]

Thanks very much Mikail, but this work has just been made by Pete J, by mail, and is implemented in the 5.4 release.
I know Complex content is no so good, I'm speaking about in-game content concerning weapons/upgrades and so on. Any help is appreciated.

[Destroid]

"also i like the idea of a corvette-class heavy bomber,"

Its called the laser corvette, and exists in both Complex and vanilla HW2 on the Vaygr side.

[Juggernaughty]

Lol yeah I just remembered that one today. Well I guess nothing should be done about that then. God knows the Higgs don't need MORE ships before the Vaygr does.

[Dragonfury]

Hmm...

how do i fix this problem?

Homeworld2.exe caused an Access Violation in module Homeworld2.exe at 001b:004f9291.
Error occurred at 6/11/2006 01:41:42.
Homeworld2.exe, run by user.
Microsoft Windows XP?.
1 processor(s), type 586.
510 MBytes physical memory.
Read from location 000003b8 caused an access violation.

MiniDump saved to file 'C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\6-11-2006_01_41_42_MiniDump.dmp'

Registers:
EAX=00000000 CS=001b EIP=004f9291 EFLGS=00010246
EBX=0012f3e8 SS=0023 ESP=0012efe4 EBP=0012f1f8
ECX=048a6738 DS=0023 ESI=0486a2d0 FS=003b
EDX=ffffffff ES=0023 EDI=00000000 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
8b 80 b8 03 00 00 85 c0 7c 19 83 f8 04 73 14 c1

Call Stack:
0x004F9291: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= ()
0x004F781A: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= ()
0x005DA92B: getLibraryID ()
0x005DA97B: getLibraryID ()
0x005DA854: getLibraryID ()
0x005DA854: getLibraryID ()
0x005DA854: getLibraryID ()
0x005DB3E4: getLibraryID ()
0x005E17BA: getLibraryID ()





0x003347E1: SharedLibraryInterface::i ()
0x003354C4: Timer::`default constructor closure' ()
0x77D48734: GetDC ()
0x77D48816: GetDC ()
0x77D4C63F: IsWindowUnicode ()
0x77D4C665: CallWindowProcW ()
0x5ED2699B: wglSwapBuffers ()
0x77D48734: GetDC ()
0x77D48816: GetDC ()
0x77D489CD: GetWindowLongW ()
0x77D496C7: DispatchMessageA ()
0x003370B3: InputInterface::i ()

Stack dump:
Exception encountered during stack dump.


Module list: names, addresses, sizes, time stamps and file times:
C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Memory.dll, loaded at 0x00320000 - 33280 bytes - 3fe0ce01 - file date is 12/17/2003 13:43:30
C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Platform.dll, loaded at 0x00330000 - 98304 bytes - 3fe0ce5f - file date is 12/17/2003 13:45:04
C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Debug.dll, loaded at 0x00350000 - 10752 bytes - 3fe0cdfd - file date is 12/17/2003 13:43:26
C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Localizer.dll, loaded at 0x00360000 - 94208 bytes - 3fe0ce59 - file date is 12/17/2003 13:44:58
C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\FileIO.dll, loaded at 0x00380000 - 155648 bytes - 3fe0ce52 - file date is 12/17/2003 13:44:50
C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\ZLib.dll, loaded at 0x003b0000 - 49152 bytes - 3fe0ce3b - file date is 12/17/2003 13:44:28
C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\lua.dll, loaded at 0x003c0000 - 73728 bytes - 3fe0ce66 - file date is 12/17/2003 13:45:12
C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\luaconfig.dll, loaded at 0x003e0000 - 57344 bytes - 3fe0ce6b - file date is 12/17/2003 13:45:16
C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\util.dll, loaded at 0x003f0000 - 36864 bytes - 3fe0ce7e - file date is 12/17/2003 13:45:34
C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Homeworld2.exe, loaded at 0x00400000 - 5562368 bytes - 3fe0d29b - file date is 12/17/2003 14:39:04
C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\divxmedialib.dll, loaded at 0x00970000 - 86016 bytes - 3f3bc007 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:08:56
C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\DivxDecoder.dll, loaded at 0x00990000 - 397312 bytes - 3f3bc002 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:08:56
C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\FileParser.dll, loaded at 0x00a00000 - 86016 bytes - 3f3bc005 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:08:56
C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\hw2box.dll, loaded at 0x00a20000 - 9728 bytes - 3fe0ce78 - file date is 12/17/2003 13:45:28
C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\objects.dll, loaded at 0x00a30000 - 1093632 bytes - 3fe0cfaa - file date is 12/17/2003 13:50:36
C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\console.dll, loaded at 0x00be0000 - 5632 bytes - 3fe0cf2d - file date is 12/17/2003 13:48:30
C:\WINDOWS\system32\MsgPlusLoader.dll, loaded at 0x010f0000 - 58952 bytes - 4432b59a - file date is 5/10/2006 19:36:48
C:\WINDOWS\system32\CmdLineExt03.dll, loaded at 0x017a0000 - 43520 bytes - 3fcb7916 - file date is 6/11/2006 01:41:00
C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\GL.dll, loaded at 0x02750000 - 294912 bytes - 3fe0cfbd - file date is 12/17/2003 13:50:54
C:\PROGRA~1\Sierra\HOMEWO~1\Bin\Release\seFDAudio.dll, loaded at 0x03a80000 - 40960 bytes - 3fe0cee8 - file date is 12/17/2003 13:47:20
C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\gslobby.dll, loaded at 0x10000000 - 135168 bytes - 3fe0cf28 - file date is 12/17/2003 13:48:24
C:\WINDOWS\system32\xpsp2res.dll , loaded at 0x20000000 - 2897920 bytes - 411096b9 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:36
C:\WINDOWS\system32\dxdiagn.dll , loaded at 0x4f680000 - 2113536 bytes - 41109696 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\dbghelp.dll , loaded at 0x59a60000 - 640000 bytes - 4110969a - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\uxtheme.dll , loaded at 0x5ad70000 - 218624 bytes - 411096bb - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\NETAPI32.dll , loaded at 0x5b860000 - 332288 bytes - 411096ac - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:44
C:\WINDOWS\system32\comctl32.dll , loaded at 0x5d090000 - 611328 bytes - 411096af - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\opengl32.dll , loaded at 0x5ed00000 - 713728 bytes - 411096f8 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:44
C:\WINDOWS\system32\GLU32.dll , loaded at 0x68b20000 - 122880 bytes - 41109697 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\nvoglnt.dll , loaded at 0x69500000 - 5140480 bytes - 42f00a7e - file date is 8/2/2005 16:35:00
C:\WINDOWS\system32\WS2HELP.dll , loaded at 0x71aa0000 - 19968 bytes - 411096f3 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\WS2_32.dll , loaded at 0x71ab0000 - 82944 bytes - 411096f2 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\WSOCK32.dll , loaded at 0x71ad0000 - 22528 bytes - 411096ff - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\msacm32.drv , loaded at 0x72d10000 - 20480 bytes - 3b7dfe2a - file date is 8/23/2001 08:00:00
C:\WINDOWS\system32\wdmaud.drv , loaded at 0x72d20000 - 23552 bytes - 411096c6 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:58
C:\WINDOWS\system32\DDRAW.dll , loaded at 0x73760000 - 266240 bytes - 411096a0 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\DCIMAN32.dll , loaded at 0x73bc0000 - 8704 bytes - 4110969f - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\KsUser.dll , loaded at 0x73ee0000 - 4096 bytes - 411096ad - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\dsound.dll , loaded at 0x73f10000 - 367616 bytes - 411096d4 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\System32\wbem\wbemsvc.dll, loaded at 0x74ed0000 - 43520 bytes - 411096c3 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\System32\wbem\wbemprox.dll, loaded at 0x74ef0000 - 18944 bytes - 411096c2 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\System32\wbem\wbemcomn.dll, loaded at 0x75290000 - 214528 bytes - 411096bc - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\System32\wbem\fastprox.dll, loaded at 0x75690000 - 472064 bytes - 41109695 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\MSVCP60.dll , loaded at 0x76080000 - 413696 bytes - 41109751 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:44
C:\WINDOWS\system32\NTDSAPI.dll , loaded at 0x767a0000 - 67072 bytes - 411096c9 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:44
C:\WINDOWS\system32\winmm.dll , loaded at 0x76b40000 - 176128 bytes - 411096d6 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\WINTRUST.dll , loaded at 0x76c30000 - 176640 bytes - 411096b9 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\imagehlp.dll , loaded at 0x76c90000 - 144384 bytes - 411096a9 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\DNSAPI.dll , loaded at 0x76f20000 - 148480 bytes - 411096bd - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\WLDAP32.dll , loaded at 0x76f60000 - 172032 bytes - 411096bb - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\CLBCATQ.DLL , loaded at 0x76fd0000 - 498688 bytes - 42e5be90 - file date is 7/26/2005 00:39:44
C:\WINDOWS\system32\COMRes.dll , loaded at 0x77050000 - 792064 bytes - 411096b4 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\oleaut32.dll , loaded at 0x77120000 - 553472 bytes - 411096f3 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:44
C:\WINDOWS\system32\WININET.dll , loaded at 0x771b0000 - 658432 bytes - 44090a99 - file date is 3/3/2006 23:33:46
C:\WINDOWS\WinSxS\x86_Microsoft.Windows.Common-Controls_6595b64144ccf1df_6.0.2600.2180_x-ww_a84f1ff9\comctl32.dll, loaded at 0x773d0000 - 1050624 bytes - 4110968c - file date is 8/4/2004 03:57:00
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ole32.dll , loaded at 0x774e0000 - 1285120 bytes - 42e5be93 - file date is 7/26/2005 00:39:48
C:\WINDOWS\system32\SETUPAPI.DLL , loaded at 0x77920000 - 983552 bytes - 411096b0 - file date is 8/4/2004 00:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\CRYPT32.dll , loaded at 0x77a80000 - 597504 bytes - 41109691 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\MSASN1.dll , loaded at 0x77b20000 - 57344 bytes - 411096e3 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\midimap.dll , loaded at 0x77bd0000 - 18944 bytes - 411096a9 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\MSACM32.dll , loaded at 0x77be0000 - 71680 bytes - 411096cf - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\version.dll , loaded at 0x77c00000 - 18944 bytes - 411096b7 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\msvcrt.dll , loaded at 0x77c10000 - 343040 bytes - 41109752 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:44
C:\WINDOWS\system32\USER32.dll , loaded at 0x77d40000 - 577024 bytes - 42260159 - file date is 3/2/2005 14:09:30
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ADVAPI32.dll , loaded at 0x77dd0000 - 616960 bytes - 411096a7 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\RPCRT4.dll , loaded at 0x77e70000 - 581120 bytes - 411096ae - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:44
C:\WINDOWS\system32\GDI32.dll , loaded at 0x77f10000 - 280064 bytes - 43b34feb - file date is 12/28/2005 22:54:36
C:\WINDOWS\system32\SHLWAPI.dll , loaded at 0x77f60000 - 474112 bytes - 44090a97 - file date is 3/3/2006 23:33:44
C:\WINDOWS\system32\Secur32.dll , loaded at 0x77fe0000 - 55808 bytes - 411096c1 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:44
C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\MSVCR70.dll, loaded at 0x7c000000 - 344064 bytes - 3c36e574 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:08:58
C:\WINDOWS\system32\kernel32.dll , loaded at 0x7c800000 - 983552 bytes - 411096b4 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ntdll.dll , loaded at 0x7c900000 - 708096 bytes - 411096b4 - file date is 8/4/2004 03:56:36
C:\WINDOWS\system32\SHELL32.dll , loaded at 0x7c9c0000 - 8452096 bytes - 441a3527 - file date is 3/17/2006 00:03:54

[HomerDOHSimpson]

Can someone tell me what changes in v5.4 are? The difference is less than 1KB...

[shadow51689]

The strangest thing happened today, in a game with a friend. For some reason, the Remote Monitor system wasn't working at all...

The map was Balcora (which had CTD'ed upon loading twice in a row before), 2 players, 2 expert CPU, 1 Hard CPU. From the start, the little Remote Monitor icon said nothing (usually says "protected" or "unprotected", and then we noticed that the whole thing wasn't working...
http://home.comcast.net/~codx69/ss00108.jpg

Even after having an adv. sensor subsystem, and researching Remote Monitor level 1, it didn't work. Infact for the rest of the game it didn't work until one of the CPU was destroyed... Then this happened.

http://home.comcast.net/~codx69/ss00112.jpg

There were only two PC's involved, yet the remote monitor claims there are 3 players? Player 2, Player 5, and Player 6?!?! (by this time I'd pretty much been dead... that's why no research lol)


Also, 5.4 seems to crash quite alot upon loading a map in multiplayer and vs CPU mode for me... The previous versions did, but not as often it seemed.

Other than that, 5.4 is another fine peice of work!

[Babbo]

Maybe I've been completely ignorant, but it was not before this weekend that I noticed a sad (even if you may call it realistic) effect: attacking corvettes and fighters are blown up together with the dying capital ship (e.g. a shipyard) they attack! Also new to me: the (Hiig) mothership's torpedo launchers and the frigate repair option within research.

[HX45]

Hi,
I'm a french player of Complex. I discovered it this summer and I find it great, it has completly replaced Homeworld 2 "Classic" in my multiplayer games.
I would like to do a french translation of the mod. I already started, based on Complex 5.2. But I need your help to know on which files you made changes in Complex 5.3 and 5.4, because I'm certainly overriding some new tweaks as I replace files containing both game parameters and strings.
It would be nice if I could have a list of the modified files, each time a new version of complex is released.

At this time, I've translated all the Hiigaran Build Panel strings (names and descriptions), all taskbars strings (including Remote Monitor Panel), all the names of the Hiigaran researches, and all strings of the Create Game Menu.
I use a big file to manage the translation mod (so I can des/activate it anytime).

Here are the files I'm overriding (for now) :
\leveldata\multiplayer\deathmatch.lua
\leveldata\multiplayer\lib\computerspy.lua
\leveldata\multiplayer\lib\gametime.lua
\leveldata\multiplayer\lib\interface.lua
\leveldata\multiplayer\lib\population.lua
\scripts\building and research\hiigaran\build.lua
\scripts\building and research\hiigaran\research.lua
\ui\newui\fleetmenu.lua
\ui\newui\new1.lua
\ui\newui\new2.lua
\ui\newui\resource.lua
\ui\newui\strikegroupsmenu.lua
\ui\newui\unitcapinfopopup.lua
\ui\newui\unitcapinfopopup1.lua

Thanks

[beghins]

Thanks, since 5.4 has gone out, two days ago, more then 2000 people have downloaded the upgrade!

HX45,
sorry now it's too late, during the 6.0 development any day I'll post the list of improvements and the list of affected files.
At the moment the only thing I suggest is to use a "compare files" function beetwen your files and those 5.4 new ones, you find it in text editors like ULTRAEDIT and the like.
Once you've finished your traslation work, let me know, I would like to give it for download in the Complex web site.
An italian version of Complex is also in development.

[HX45]

Ok, it's allright for me. I can build scripts to compare all files at once. And since you're now planning on releasing 6.0 on December 2006, I've got time :D. I'll keep you posted.

Just another thing :
On your site support page, you say that if we do not have the english version of Homeworld 2, we need to replace our language files by the english ones. Actually, I've found no imcompatibilities between Complex and non-English language files. Nevertheless, English can be activated without replacing locale language files. It's only a question of changing the locale value in Bin\region.lua. The speech can also be activated without changing the strings, by running Homeworld2.exe with the -mod <language>Speech.big command line (I use this one because I prefer the original voices).

You may know all this already, I just thought you should edit your support page.

Keep the good work ! :)

[HomerDOHSimpson]

Hellllooooo
did anybody heard me?
I said "Can someone tell me what changes in v5.4 are? The difference is less than 1KB..." :iws:

[Mikali]

I've noticed the Remote Monitor sometimes not working in 5.3.

[Babbo]

Homer, we have to live with that :D

P.S.: sorry, I can't help.

[Darkon]

Hi beghins

Firstly great mod!
I mod almost every game I play and have downloaded tons of mods, and yours is definitely one of the best.

I just have one problem, I like to tinker, and I have been trying to change the fighter/corvette repair speeds.

I have tried modding the values in the Ship files, the Research files, and even the Repair Subsystems, and they make no difference.
I have looked through the rest of you files as well, and can't see anything to override the above files.

I'm trying to create a non-cap ship version of your mod, just for myself, I'm a dog fighter fan, and this is the last thing I can't figure out.

I would really appreciate your help, I'm sure I am missing something.

Thanks

[Didier]

I I have seen your mod and it's great, so I've downloaded it and did what was on the instructions. Yet when I try to start it doesn't work! I've tried whithout the patch and I actually can acess the game but when begining a singleplayer map it sends me back to the desktop.

I'd appreciate if someone could help me.

I've managed to activate it with the patch but when it's loading it sends me back to the desktop.
Also this appeared

Homeworld2.exe caused a Breakpoint in module Debug.dll at 001b:003819b6.
Error occurred at 10/2/2006 16:47:50.
Homeworld2.exe, run by HighScreen.
Microsoft Windows XP?.
2 processor(s), type 586.
1024 MBytes physical memory.
MiniDump saved to file 'C:\Programas\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\10-2-2006_16_47_50_MiniDump.dmp'
Registers:
EAX=00000000 CS=001b EIP=003819b6 EFLGS=00000202
EBX=00000000 SS=0023 ESP=0013f348 EBP=0013fe00
ECX=7c014444 DS=0023 ESI=0000000a FS=003b
EDX=0122da68 ES=0023 EDI=000003f6 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
cc 83 4d fc ff 8d 8d 5c fe ff ff e8 9b fc ff ff
Call Stack:
0x003819B6: dbFatalfAux ()
0x0062519F: getLibraryID ()
0x004948BF: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= ()
0x0049034A: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= ()
0x0049090B: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= ()

Stack dump:

Module list: names, addresses, sizes, time stamps and file times:
C:\Programas\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Platform.dll, loaded at 0x00330000 - 98304 bytes - 3f3c346d - file date is 8/14/2003 18:16:30
C:\Programas\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Memory.dll, loaded at 0x00350000 - 33280 bytes - 3f3c341b - file date is 8/14/2003 18:15:08
C:\Programas\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Localizer.dll, loaded at 0x00360000 - 94208 bytes - 3f3c3468 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:16:26
C:\Programas\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Debug.dll, loaded at 0x00380000 - 10752 bytes - 3f3c3417 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:15:04
C:\Programas\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\FileIO.dll, loaded at 0x00390000 - 155648 bytes - 3f3c3461 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:16:18
C:\Programas\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\ZLib.dll, loaded at 0x003c0000 - 49152 bytes - 3f3c344d - file date is 8/14/2003 18:16:00
C:\Programas\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\lua.dll, loaded at 0x003d0000 - 73728 bytes - 3f3c3472 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:16:36
C:\Programas\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\LuaConfig.dll, loaded at 0x003f0000 - 53248 bytes - 3f3c3476 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:16:40
C:\Programas\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Homeworld2.exe, loaded at 0x00400000 - 5333031 bytes - 37373778 - file date is 9/16/2003 20:37:16
C:\Programas\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\objects.dll, loaded at 0x00940000 - 1093632 bytes - 3f3c358d - file date is 8/14/2003 18:21:20
C:\Programas\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Util.dll, loaded at 0x00af0000 - 36864 bytes - 3f3c3489 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:16:58
C:\Programas\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\hw2box.dll, loaded at 0x00b00000 - 9728 bytes - 3f3c3486 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:16:56
C:\Programas\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\divxmedialib.dll, loaded at 0x00b10000 - 86016 bytes - 3f3bc007 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:08:56
C:\Programas\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\DivxDecoder.dll, loaded at 0x00b30000 - 397312 bytes - 3f3bc002 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:08:56
C:\Programas\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\FileParser.dll, loaded at 0x00ba0000 - 86016 bytes - 3f3bc005 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:08:56
C:\Programas\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\gslobby.dll, loaded at 0x00bc0000 - 135168 bytes - 3f3c3510 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:19:14
C:\WINDOWS\system32\IKEYRFK8.DLL , loaded at 0x01d90000 - 32768 bytes - 3f1709c7 - file date is 7/18/2003 04:40:40
C:\Programas\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\GL.dll, loaded at 0x026b0000 - 294912 bytes - 3f3c35a0 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:21:38
C:\Programas\Panda Software\Panda Antivirus Platinum\enganche.dll, loaded at 0x02740000 - 131137 bytes - 3e7aee56 - file date is 4/10/2005 12:17:38
C:\PROGRA~1\Sierra\HOMEWO~1\Bin\Release\seFDAudio.dll, loaded at 0x038a0000 - 40960 bytes - 3f3c34d7 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:18:16
C:\Programas\Panda Software\Panda Antivirus Platinum\Firewall\SSSensor.dll, loaded at 0x058b0000 - 77824 bytes - 3f57d16c - file date is 9/4/2003 16:57:34
C:\WINDOWS\system32\Amhooker.dll , loaded at 0x06010000 - 49152 bytes - 3e0c1181 - file date is 12/27/2002 16:38:26
C:\Programas\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\console.dll, loaded at 0x10000000 - 5632 bytes - 3f3c3514 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:19:18
C:\WINDOWS\system32\xpsp2res.dll , loaded at 0x20000000 - 2944512 bytes - 41109700 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:55:44
C:\WINDOWS\system32\dxdiagn.dll , loaded at 0x4f560000 - 2113536 bytes - 41109617 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:24
C:\WINDOWS\system32\dbghelp.dll , loaded at 0x59e60000 - 640000 bytes - 41109617 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:22
C:\WINDOWS\system32\uxtheme.dll , loaded at 0x5b180000 - 219648 bytes - 41109690 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\umdmxfrm.dll , loaded at 0x5b4b0000 - 13312 bytes - 3bfa876c - file date is 11/20/2001 13:00:00
C:\WINDOWS\system32\NETAPI32.dll , loaded at 0x5bc70000 - 332288 bytes - 44b7bb11 - file date is 7/14/2006 16:41:06
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ShimEng.dll , loaded at 0x5cf90000 - 65536 bytes - 41109677 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\serwvdrv.dll , loaded at 0x5d190000 - 14848 bytes - 3bfa8771 - file date is 11/20/2001 13:00:00
C:\WINDOWS\system32\comctl32.dll , loaded at 0x5d4e0000 - 611328 bytes - 41109625 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:22
C:\WINDOWS\system32\opengl32.dll , loaded at 0x5f150000 - 713728 bytes - 411096aa - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:38
C:\WINDOWS\system32\mslbui.dll , loaded at 0x60a20000 - 25600 bytes - 411096c3 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:34
C:\WINDOWS\system32\GLU32.dll , loaded at 0x61480000 - 123904 bytes - 4110961d - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:26
C:\WINDOWS\system32\atioglxx.dll , loaded at 0x69000000 - 6508544 bytes - 412cd0d6 - file date is 8/25/2004 06:48:12
C:\WINDOWS\AppPatch\AcLayers.DLL , loaded at 0x71620000 - 450048 bytes - 41109600 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:20
C:\WINDOWS\system32\WS2HELP.dll , loaded at 0x71a40000 - 19968 bytes - 411096d2 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:48
C:\WINDOWS\system32\WS2_32.dll , loaded at 0x71a50000 - 82944 bytes - 411096d1 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:48
C:\WINDOWS\system32\WSOCK32.dll , loaded at 0x71a70000 - 25600 bytes - 411096de - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:50
C:\WINDOWS\system32\msacm32.drv , loaded at 0x72ca0000 - 20992 bytes - 3bfa86e3 - file date is 11/20/2001 13:00:00
C:\WINDOWS\system32\wdmaud.drv , loaded at 0x72cb0000 - 23552 bytes - 4110969c - file date is 8/4/2004 08:57:32
C:\WINDOWS\system32\WINSPOOL.DRV , loaded at 0x72f90000 - 146944 bytes - 41109695 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:57:32
C:\WINDOWS\system32\DDRAW.dll , loaded at 0x736f0000 - 266240 bytes - 4110961d - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:22
C:\WINDOWS\system32\DCIMAN32.dll , loaded at 0x73b50000 - 8704 bytes - 4110961c - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:22
C:\WINDOWS\system32\KsUser.dll , loaded at 0x73e70000 - 4096 bytes - 41109640 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:30
C:\WINDOWS\system32\dsound.dll , loaded at 0x73ea0000 - 367616 bytes - 41109651 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:24
C:\WINDOWS\system32\MSCTF.dll , loaded at 0x746c0000 - 294400 bytes - 4110967e - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:32
C:\WINDOWS\System32\wbem\wbemsvc.dll, loaded at 0x74e70000 - 43520 bytes - 41109699 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\System32\wbem\wbemprox.dll, loaded at 0x74e90000 - 18944 bytes - 41109698 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\System32\wbem\wbemcomn.dll, loaded at 0x75230000 - 214528 bytes - 41109692 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\System32\wbem\fastprox.dll, loaded at 0x75640000 - 472064 bytes - 41109618 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:24
C:\WINDOWS\system32\MSVCP60.dll , loaded at 0x76030000 - 413696 bytes - 411096e5 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:36
C:\WINDOWS\system32\NTDSAPI.dll , loaded at 0x76760000 - 67072 bytes - 4110967a - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:38
C:\WINDOWS\system32\USERENV.dll , loaded at 0x76980000 - 731136 bytes - 4110968e - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\winmm.dll , loaded at 0x76b00000 - 180224 bytes - 411096ac - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\WINTRUST.dll , loaded at 0x76bf0000 - 176640 bytes - 41109698 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\imagehlp.dll , loaded at 0x76c50000 - 144384 bytes - 41109634 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:28
C:\WINDOWS\system32\DNSAPI.dll , loaded at 0x76ee0000 - 148480 bytes - 44a01c49 - file date is 6/26/2006 18:41:30
C:\WINDOWS\system32\WLDAP32.dll , loaded at 0x76f20000 - 172544 bytes - 4110969a - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\CLBCATQ.DLL , loaded at 0x76f90000 - 498688 bytes - 42e5be9d - file date is 7/26/2005 05:39:58
C:\WINDOWS\system32\COMRes.dll , loaded at 0x77010000 - 834048 bytes - 4110962a - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:22
C:\WINDOWS\system32\oleaut32.dll , loaded at 0x770f0000 - 553472 bytes - 411096a5 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:38
C:\WINDOWS\system32\WININET.dll , loaded at 0x77180000 - 662016 bytes - 449bcc20 - file date is 6/23/2006 12:10:24
C:\WINDOWS\WinSxS\x86_Microsoft.Windows.Common-Controls_6595b64144ccf1df_6.0.2600.2180_x-ww_a84f1ff9\comctl32.dll, loaded at 0x773a0000 - 1050624 bytes - 411095fd - file date is 8/4/2004 08:53:34
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ole32.dll , loaded at 0x774b0000 - 1284608 bytes - 42e5bea1 - file date is 7/26/2005 05:40:04
C:\WINDOWS\system32\CRYPT32.dll , loaded at 0x77a50000 - 601600 bytes - 4110960e - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:22
C:\WINDOWS\system32\MSASN1.dll , loaded at 0x77af0000 - 57344 bytes - 41109677 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:32
C:\WINDOWS\system32\midimap.dll , loaded at 0x77ba0000 - 18944 bytes - 4110963d - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:30
C:\WINDOWS\system32\MSACM32.dll , loaded at 0x77bb0000 - 71680 bytes - 41109663 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:32
C:\WINDOWS\system32\version.dll , loaded at 0x77bd0000 - 18944 bytes - 4110968d - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:46
C:\WINDOWS\system32\msvcrt.dll , loaded at 0x77be0000 - 343040 bytes - 411096e6 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:36
C:\WINDOWS\system32\USER32.dll , loaded at 0x77d10000 - 578048 bytes - 42260197 - file date is 3/2/2005 19:10:32
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ADVAPI32.dll , loaded at 0x77da0000 - 683520 bytes - 41109618 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:20
C:\WINDOWS\system32\RPCRT4.dll , loaded at 0x77e50000 - 581120 bytes - 41109668 - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:40
C:\WINDOWS\system32\GDI32.dll , loaded at 0x77ef0000 - 280064 bytes - 43b34ff1 - file date is 12/29/2005 03:54:42
C:\WINDOWS\system32\SHLWAPI.dll , loaded at 0x77f40000 - 474624 bytes - 449bcc1f - file date is 6/23/2006 12:10:24
C:\WINDOWS\system32\Secur32.dll , loaded at 0x77fc0000 - 55808 bytes - 4110967b - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:42
C:\Programas\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\MSVCR70.dll, loaded at 0x7c000000 - 344064 bytes - 3c36e574 - file date is 8/14/2003 18:08:58
C:\WINDOWS\system32\kernel32.dll , loaded at 0x7c800000 - 1033728 bytes - 44ab9ad5 - file date is 7/5/2006 11:56:22
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ntdll.dll , loaded at 0x7c910000 - 731136 bytes - 4110969f - file date is 8/4/2004 08:56:16
C:\WINDOWS\system32\SHELL32.dll , loaded at 0x7c9d0000 - 8494592 bytes - 44b64c0b - file date is 7/13/2006 14:35:08

Can anyone tell me how to make it work?

[HX45]

I said "Can someone tell me what changes in v5.4 are? The difference is less than 1KB..." :iws:
Yep, I can tell you some of the changes. At least it's what I could understand from the files.

Many strings were edited to match more with "better-speaking english". All strings involving the word "Honor" were replaced by "Honour" (American replaced by English).
Hiigaran Mothership Torpedo Launcher Speed Increased by 5%
Hiigaran Mothership Canons cost and time values were changed to 1.
"Kinetik" was replaced by "Kinetic" in the battlecruiser files.
Mothership's value "NewShipType.nbRestrictedHardpoints" was changed from 2 to 0 (I dont know what this means).
Many help strings were reworked.

I guess that's all what's visible in-game.

Here's the complete file list if you're interested...

VB Automated Operation Log
Date : 01/10/2006 18:52:58
Writing log...
File "\ui\newui\background\load_background_8000.tga" : mismatched
File "\ui\newui\background\load_background_16000.tga" : mismatched
File "\scripts\building and research\vaygr\research.lua" : mismatched
File "\scripts\building and research\vaygr\build.lua" : mismatched
File "\scripts\building and research\hiigaran\research.lua" : mismatched
File "\scripts\building and research\hiigaran\build.lua" : mismatched
File "\leveldata\multiplayer\lib\sobgroupfunctions.lua" : mismatched
File "\leveldata\multiplayer\lib\interface.lua" : mismatched
File "\weapon\hgn_mothershiptorpedolauncherbig\hgn_mothershiptorpedolauncherbig.wepn" : mismatched
File "\weapon\hgn_mothershiptorpedolauncher\hgn_mothershiptorpedolauncher.wepn" : mismatched
File "\ui\newui\unitcapinfopopup1.lua" : mismatched
File "\ui\newui\unitcapinfopopup.lua" : mismatched
File "\ui\newui\resource.lua" : mismatched
File "\subsystem\hgn_ms_torpedolauncher4\hgn_ms_torpedolauncher4.subs" : mismatched
File "\subsystem\hgn_ms_torpedolauncher3\hgn_ms_torpedolauncher3.subs" : mismatched
File "\subsystem\hgn_ms_torpedolauncher2\hgn_ms_torpedolauncher2.subs" : mismatched
File "\subsystem\hgn_mothershipcannon4\hgn_mothershipcannon4.subs" : mismatched
File "\subsystem\hgn_mothershipcannon3\hgn_mothershipcannon3.subs" : mismatched
File "\subsystem\hgn_mothershipcannon2\hgn_mothershipcannon2.subs" : mismatched
File "\subsystem\hgn_mothershipcannon1\hgn_mothershipcannon1.subs" : mismatched
File "\subsystem\hgn_battlecruisercannon2\hgn_battlecruisercannon2.subs" : mismatched
File "\subsystem\hgn_battlecruisercannon1\hgn_battlecruisercannon1.subs" : mismatched
File "\subsystem\hgn_battlecruisercannon\hgn_battlecruisercannon.subs" : mismatched
File "\ship\hgn_mothership\hgn_mothership.ship" : mismatched
File "\leveldata\multiplayer\deathmatch.lua" : mismatched
File "\galleryhiigarancontent.lua" : mismatched
Operation In Progress...

[HX45]

To Didier :
Try to deactivate Panda Antivirus (It's just an idea).

[beghins]

Ciao, good news, may be the problem of all your system crashes has been discovered.
It was due to the error "unable to find player" in sobgroupfunctions.lua, researchstation.lua and playercount.lua.
A test session is started today, if the fixing will be confirmed, the final fixed 5 series release out this Friday, ciao, Beghins.

[Didier]

to HX45It doesn't work either with the panda activated or desactivated.

[HomerDOHSimpson]

@HX45
Cool Thanks!
:bow:

[HX45]

Does this could fix the in-games "back to desktop" crashes along with loading crashes ? 'cause crashing in the middle of a 2 hours LAN game is indeed frustating ><.

[Skandalos]

Wow this is one of the best mods I ever played! And much better than stock HW2. This must have been incredibly much work for you guys. Kudos to all involved in designing and testing!

Got a few minor issues. Do you plan to keep this "feature" that the explosions of cap ships do damage to close by enemy ships? It makes micro managing of fighters and corvettes much worse. Losing 14 or so laser corvs in just one second because they got too close to a carrier that got killed by my BC can be really annoying.

On some maps the asteroids of a patch are a bit too close to each other, so resourcers can get stuck. They seem to have enough room but they just sit there without moving, just trembling a bit. If I tell them to move, and then to harvest again, they resume to their job but can get stuck again later.

Some maps are littered with chunks of scrap (dunno how to call them, "resource containers"?), anyway, on some of these maps are large debris hulks blocking the ways of the collectors to these scrap pieces. The collectors seem to ignore the hulks and try to move right through them -> *poof* bye bye collector.

The biggest problem for me, however, is performance. Most of your player vs cpu maps are rather large. With increasing amounts of ships and scrap the framerate gets very bad, most of the maps become unplayable in late game. My cpu is an Athlon 2500+, there are 1 Gig RAM, and a 6800GT graphics card. Is there any way to improve the performance other than by purchasing new hardware? I mean, I can perfectly play 3D games like Half-Life2 or FarCry with all the eye candy fully enabled. Is this due to bugs or is it just the code of HW2 that could use some optimizing (which will never happen of course)?

Sorry if I repeated stuff that other people most probably mentioned before, I didnt have the time nor the mood to study those 107 pages of this thread ;-)

Again, thanks to you guys and keep on your fantastic work!

[shadow51689]

Skandalos: Try setting Hw2.log in your Homeworld 2\Bin\Release folder to 'Read only.' (You can erase whatever is in the file already if you like). This seems to help tremendously with the lag.

I have an AMD Athlon 2600, a Geforce FX 5600 and only 512 mb of ram (lol below the minimum for Complex I know), and the game runs okay, even in multiplayer with other people and 4-5 CPU's. Once it gets late in the game however, the lag get's pretty bad... I'm sure if I had more (and faster) memory, I'd be much better off though.

I'm kinda mixed on the capital ship explosions... I think it does make sense for small ships to be damaged or destroyed by the explosions, but it does seem a tiiiny bit too much currently. Then again I always make sure to pull back my small stuff now... Once in a while I do forget lol.

[Skandalos]

I set that log file on read only (like it says in the readme) when I installed Complex 5.4, so I cant say what it gains. The main culprit for the bad performance seems to be the debris from destroyed ships. In Complex not only the maps are bigger, and the games longer (more resources * more time = more debris^2), but now the frigates leave debris, too (= debris^3).

Besides the late game performance drop I also get a strange split-second hanger pretty much exactly every five seconds, and from the beginning of a game. But thats not much of a problem compared with the late game 0.9 fps or so.

BTW I had a similar performance drop with large maps in the PDS mod, so it is hardly a problem due to bugs in Complex.

[Juggernaughty]

I think a good solution to the cap ship damaging explosion effect is to reduce it to a short range, light to medium damage shockwave effect.

And then if you can do this too, I don't know it might be a little too hard or be too much of a special effect for the game to handle or something... The debris that is normally left behind after the explosion, make it to where the debris flies out a good distance WHEN the ship explodes in sort of a scatter shot effect, and they destroy any smaller ships they collide with, and damage larger ships they hit. Also when debris collides with something larger than itself the debris will be destroyed also giving a minor solution to the current problem of there being too much debris floating around late game.

Again, I dunno if it can be done, it's just a thought.

[Skandalos]

Or at least make an upgrade possible that protects fighters / corvettes from that damage or reduces it.

Apropos Juggernaut: I captured one and tried to use it against its sender. Didnt know how to use it first, then I simply scuttled it when it was next to the enemy MS. However, it did no damage at all to none of the enemy stuff. Is it intended to be that way?

[Babbo]

I didn't want to stress the performance problem. ... but now, when you mentioned it ...: During the weekend I got really surprised: I re-loaded a saved game, which I played the day before with normal fps (frames per second) - at least this is it, what I thought and it suddenly came up with 7-8 fps! And that's a pure horror - as you all know. (Before you cry, my pc is up to date, with a, say, acceptable configuration, i.e. a Pentium IV, 3.2GHz, 1GB ram and a Radeon X850XT, and no, there were no new installations, demanding resident programs or viruses :D).

So I started to scuttle the ships, squadron by squadron. Each one brought about 1-2 fps, which is quite normal, I think. Then, the battle cruisers (uuuh, I hate that!). There where two, say A and B. Scuttling A brought almost nothing. Scuttling B, however, was a gain of more than 10fps which is a lot! These were my only bcs, so I tried it the other way round (naturally, after a re-load): scuttle B and again a gain of 10-11 fps. Then A - as before: nothing.

Maybe, I should add that these two bcs were identically equipped and both did nothing, were just hanging around near mom.

What's the conclusion? Some ships occupy more memory than others do? Is there any algorithmic work which has to be done, even if a ship is sleeping. May be subsystems doing odd things ...

Would be glad for any idea.

[Juggernaughty]

That's a good idea, shockwave-resistant armor upgrade...

[vladimir3d]

question, will any trainers work with complex 5.4?

[DJGspinNHitz]

can other ships from other people be added to the MOD? IF so how does one add them?
Also any game that I play vs the AI and has a mining base crashes. All other maps are fine so far.
CAn anyone suggest how to get ahead of the Vagyr AI playing Hig. I keep losing b/c I get overwhelmed by frigates, wave after wave and I can't repair/replace loses fast enough. Hig. Frigates are such a waste they go down so fast they make my head spin. I build tons of corvettes but they eventually get blown up. Missile Frigates take out my science and crew stations and all is over. :-(
I think that the crew and science ships should be merged into one larger ship with a few more defenses. This would save time building and money too, I also think that they should have hyperspace module and defense shield upgrades too so we can jump it out when the battle gets ugly. I also suggest reducing the number of crew for collectors to 1 and all platforms to 1 to allow more fighting ships to be built under pop cap. Other ideas are maybe make all science upgrades the same cost instead of doubling or more ship types opened in the first science module.
Just thoughts
thanks
GQ

[Juggernaughty]

DJ: Review page 104 of this thread, there's lots of input there for your problem.

[AggroDork]

Question about this mod: Is the Higgy Juggernaught functional in this version? I know the shuttle isn't, but the juggernaught won't fire. When i issue an attack order it just closes slowly on the target and then sits there. What's up with that.

[shadow51689]

The Juggernaught should work... They don't have any guns remember, they're simply a flying bomb Aggro. Press Ctrl S a few times, then you'll see :P. (They have 3 explosions, death explosion, and then the 2 'nuclear' ones).

That's odd that that your Juggernaught didn't do anything Skandalos... Was it JUST a Mothership in the area? How far out was it approximately? I know that an unupgraded Juggernaught, on the edge of it's range (I think it's 4800 unupgraded???) won't do much to a Mothership\Flagship. But every bit closer you get, it seems to be more effective. They don't seem to deal much subsystem damage though...

I've seen 4 Juggernaughts detonated at point blank range take out a fairly well upgraded Flagship and multiple nearby destroyers. (Not to mention every last collector and platform in the area)


DJGspinNHitz: If you're really desperate for that win vs Vaygr, hit their first fighters hard and fast. Then work over his workers immediately. Be sure you don't stray too far from the workers and into the flagship\platforms... This seems to put even an expert Vaygr into a defensive 'vegetative' (as my friend puts it lol) state, and delays their frigate fleet for quite some time, if not indefinitely.

[Skandalos]

It was a Hig Mothership with the usuall stuff around it, research and crew module, lots of platforms and resourcers. The Juggernaut was literally touching the MS. It did no damage at all to any of these units.

[Babbo]

So, the interest in performance problems isn't that high ... well and anyway, I would like to add a small PS (you may read my post from yesterday, some messages above): if I move battle cruiser B a little away from the mothership, then a subsequent scuttling results in a constant(!) gain of more than 20 fps! Firstly, this is truly amazing, secondly, as said, I don't have any idea how this is motivated.

[Skandalos]

What race did you play, Babbo? I usually play Vaygr and the number of BCs doesnt matter here. I notice a fps gain when I lose a squadron of 14 fighters or corvettes but not when I lose a capital ship. I also noticed that my AI opponents, even on expert level, hardly ever build BCs.

Games on 6 player maps usually drop below 10 fps as soon as I reach the 3rd crew upgrade. I couldnt finish one of these yet, either due to extrem lag or due to CTD.

[AggroDork]

Thanks shadow, I'll test that one out and see how much damage it really can do.

Another small issue i've encountered: The higgy bc's Ion battery doesn't seem to fire. I'm assuming it'll only fire in a foreward axis, like the trinity cannon or whatever, but the BC just turns its stern towards the target (slowly) and fires all of its other turrets. The obscene amount of ion beams and mass drivers (and I suppose the rapid sweepers too) do enough damage, but I have a penchant for apocalyptic overkill. Is something wrong, or should i just keep trying?

[Capital Lancer]

Kudos to the makers of this mod... the screenshots look great. I have been looking for something better than the HW2EX mod for some time. It would be nice though if I could get windows to modify the shortcut. When I try to change it, it says that the "Name in the target box is not valid", but it is identical to what you guys have listed in the readme...
:err:

[Juggernaughty]

"The obscene amount of ion beams and mass drivers (and I suppose the rapid sweepers too) do enough damage, but I have a penchant for apocalyptic overkill."

Me too. :flamer: I certainly hope this is fixed by the time Windows Vista comes out, cuz that's when I'm gonna be getting myself a new comp and you'll be hearing my feedback then.

[Babbo]

Skandalos - thanks -, I played Hiig. And you're right, battle cruisers from the opponents are a rare event. But wait: this (probably) only holds for the standard mode. (I've not yet tried to make higher demands on my humble playing style!)

I find it astonishing that there is no unified view on performance lags ... On the one hand, I can understand that, since alone the comparison of hardware equipments is almost an art, now, including graphics driver settings and, finally, game settings too, makes that quite a hopeless task. On the other hand, however, I believe that the developers of that mod are experienced enough to see and find connections between upgrade levels, number of ships, maps etc. and the general performance, even if they (naturally) don't have any insight in personal hardware or even driver settings.

Ah ... yes I read those performance hints on their side ... but I can't really catch them ... an ATI 9600XT for full detail in 1280x1024 sounds like utopia ... Note, that's no complaint but such a statement teases me for being such a naive pc user not being able to find the correct settings. Who wants to be naive? - It's a pity that we won't get any official - and above all - technical response. But to err is human and hope dies last. Oooops, that was to much poetry, am I correct ..., beghins:wave:? (And don't forget: we love that complex thing!)

To Capital Lancer: I would be glad to help, just post your link here and we'll find a way.

[Skandalos]

Babbo, I always play vs expert AI and still dont see lots of BCs. To be true I have some doubts about that "expert" level in Complex 5.4 anyway. I never had a problem to beat the AI with the first attempt.

The main reason for the relative indifference about the performance issue is probably that nobody can do much about it. No one will change the code, thats it.

As for the hardware requirements, it is true that you dont need a specially powerful graphics card to play this game. This game is a CPU hog, not a graphics hog. If you want to increase the performance of Complex mod buy a high end CPU.

[Babbo]

Oh ... then I'll try some 5.4-expert challenge :D Difficulties against the CPU appeared to be higher in Complex' 4-series. Maybe, there were some corrections. I remember standard games (in 4.something), where I was overrun by unbelievable many frigates, as said, already in standard mode.

Regarding your hog-assumptions below, ... well, they suggest an Athlon 3000 XP. Dosn't it run at 2.16GHz? And, even if I know about the GHz-comparison-issues between AMD and Intel, a PIV 3.2@3.5 GHz, shouldn't that be more than enough? Additionally, a X800Pro should be optimal. Man/girl, what I'm doing so wrong that I can't keep up with a X850XT@PE?

And with respect to RAM: running a (crazy) 7-fps-savegame, I have still about 3-400MBs of free system RAM ...

Skandalos, may I ask you about your hardware specs?

[Homdax]

Maybe running services taking up RAM too, you know.
Even if Your systems might be comparable hardware-wise, (or at least waaay above and beyond some minimum specs) they are probably not configured the same way or have the same, or even similar, software load.

[Skandalos]

I have a Athlon 2500+ (1,8Ghz), 1 Gig RAM, and I recently upgraded my graphics card from a GF4 TI4200 to a GF 6800GT wich brought no noticable gain in HW2 framerate.

[Babbo]

Regarding resident programs, I don't have any, which are noteworthy. No firewall or virus guards during game time, since then, I'm not connected. Therefore, I mean that, if I see free system ram, free texture RAM, free and-so-on-RAM, and if I see that during the game-play (overlayed by the ATI Tray Tools), then I believe it cannot be a RAM problem.

Regarding other configurations, Home is definitely right: there must and there will be differences. The most appealing thing is the shutting down of services. Wouldn't that be a nice new thread? (Sad remark: I always wondered that here at RB there is hardly anyone who is interested in hardware and specific software settings, BIOS tweaks, overclocking and so on ...)

Skandalos, I feel sorry for your not-so-lucky-update - maybe it's a cold comfort for you if I tell you that I had one too (9800Pro to X850XT).

[DJGspinNHitz]

Anyone know if any new ships are in the works for Complex 6.0? I just discovered the PDS mods and there are tons of new ships but I enjoy the play style of complex more with its rank and crew instead of ship type limits.

ALSO is the transport pathed yet?
Can ships from other MODs be addedto this one? How does one do that?
thanks
GQ

[Capital Lancer]

Thanks Babbo.

This is what I get when I attempt to add the " -mod Complex54.big" onto the end of the exe line:
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1097/untitled1yv8.jpg

[Skandalos]

I guess you need to put the path name into quotes, like

"E:\Program Files\Sierra\...\Homeworld2.exe" -mod Complex54.big

This is because of the space in "Program Files". When theres no spaces in the path name you dont need the quotes.

[Babbo]

Exactly, I would say the same. And be sure that your Complex54.big is in the \Data-directory.

[Homdax]

Thirded...:D

[beghins]

Ciao, 5.5 testing concluded.
2 match against 4 Hiigaran (Expert), more then 70 game years withoun any crash and lag too (AMD 4200 Dual Core, GForce 7800 GT, 2GByte RAM).
log.txt now is clear, you no more need to set it on "read only".
Lag reduced up to 30%.
I think to release it this Friday.
Ciao.

[Dragonfury]

Nice can't wait then, I love this mod cause it adds a level of diffcultly and makes better uses of your skills which are pushed to the limit XD

[Skandalos]

Wait .. this is thursday .. so 5.5 will come tomorrow already!! :beer:

[godman]

Capital Lancer (http://forums.relicnews.com/member.php?u=84014)
- http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/...ntitled1yv8.jpg (http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1097/untitled1yv8.jpg) - this screenshot is taken from what windows? Vista, early version?

[Homdax]

Naa, dont think so. A styled XP probably. I do it all the time, specially on my laptop. To show off.

[Osenefous]

Seems to have a fare amount of some nice Apple Features.

[Capital Lancer]

Skandalos: Yes, that was it - thanks. I thought the quotes would need to hold the entire address for it to work.

Godman: No it is XP Professional with Style XP and Desktop Sidebar, plus some other odds and ends like the clock mod.

Question: Is there any way to get the maps that I already had to work with this mod? I really miss some of my monsterously huge maps to play on, since almost all of the maps in this mod are small.

[godman]

Yeah, that was that quotes you needed.
I have GANT shellpack ;o)

Just thoughts. If there were a BFship, with huge (or mountable) amount of laser or pulsar guns (maybe , a'la corvette minegun turrets) or maybe pulsar or gun platforms (why not all together by upgrades) and at late game with ion guns, that will be nice against fighters, corvettes, frigates, and in late game - capital ships. Or, if it would be build against frigates - it can't be upgraded with ions. Just new ship for vaygr, maybe?

(edited)
I just have a strategy to build fast upgradable corvettes (later pulsar) and with them i can fight against vaygr first waves - till bigger ships arrives. Then tuwlar frigates with all the upgrades, and i'm unstopable ;) (In last game i lose, because hiiagaran Juggernaut came and destroyed most of my corvettes ;) )
(/edited)

If this was foolish, i'm sorry ;)
And for my english 2 :)

[Dragonfury]

Hmm... wasn't complex 5.5 suppose to be released friday? or is it next friday?

[nexes300]

Seriously.

Also, how are you supposed to kill Vagyr battleships? They own my Higaran ones very quickly :(

[Dragonfury]

OMG geez... you overwhelm them with several Battle cruisers and a combo of Destroyers and Ion Destroyers, and it helps if you concentrate fire on one ship at a time... it really helps to cripples the enemy ships. if a enemy battle cruiser shows up aim everything you got at it and make sure it's turned into space dust :crazy:

[nexes300]

But what if they have the same number of battlecruisers as I have? One on one, their battlecruisers seem to be much stronger than the higaran ones. Also, they can destroy destroyers very quickly :(

[Osenefous]

Destroyers are bait pretty much, they always get destroyed fairly quickly. Use them on your front line to serve as a distraction. Also use some common sense and strategy. Vaygr battlecruisers get there strength from the front, mainly the trinity. Come from behind them. Also, upgrade your battlecruisers, unupgraded they can be fairly useless. But wih the right module combination they are deadly.

[Dragonfury]

Yep that's right, upgraded they stand a better chance, also like I said if you have say 4 Battle cruisers and at least the same number of enemy ships show up, concentrate on one ship at a time, concentrated fire is the way to go, it's gotten me out of impossible battles

[nexes300]

Hmm, what module combination's do you suggest?

EDIT: I wish complex 5.5 would be releashed, I really want to have homeworld stop crashing randomly in the game :(

[shadow51689]

Drive modules are in my opinion the most useful, for both sides. I almost always have each BC with one. Also you can 'stack' Defense control modules on your BC's so that their HP's are increased. Just wondering, has anyone 'stacked' repair modules? How effective is it?

Be sure to equip atleast one with a Hyperspace module, and a Gravity Well wouldn't hurt either.

I haven't really had many crashes since 5.3, other than the occaisonal start-up crash. Though I wouldn't mind the '30%' lag reduction.

I'm sure beghins will fine tune the balance between the two BC's when he gets around to working on the Vaygr some more.

[DJGspinNHitz]

Alright been playing 1 on 1 as Hig vs Vagyr AI on hard and expert. Here are my suggestions to improve the game.
1. cost reduction of the research ship from 1800 to 1000
reason reduce cost of getting started and speed up game play
2 research upgrade cost reductions: instead of 2000-4000-8000 they would be 1000-3000-6000.
reason allows one to go on the offensive sooner
3 destroyer chassis build would be for both destroyers and you would pay for torpedo (standard) or Ion upgrades
Reason this should allow you to bring destroyers into the battle sooner and at less of a cost.
I am still working out other ideas
just thoughts
GQ
PS thanks for the great mod!

[vladimir3d]

question, how do you disable game intro speech sequence:


-> The time of prophecy is on hand, now its the time...


and so on, it constantly freezes my computer

[shadow51689]

I don't think you can disable that, other than by not playing Hiigaran. Pretty sure that it doesn't say it if your Vaygr, unless you're playing a multiplayer game in which the host is Hiigaran.

Why would it freeze your computer, do you even know?

[Babbo]

I'm not sure, but try to turn off Complex' help when creating a game.

[vladimir3d]

it makes everything extremely choppy. Aka, when voice message begins, my computer stumbles in such high occasions that it makes the game unplayable.

Which is weird since i have high performance machine:
256 mg VRAM ATI radeon 3d
2 GB ram
3.8 Ghz dual core pentium

[shadow51689]

He's talking about the initial voice 'cinematic' Babbo, Complex Help is for the text that tells you how to play later on.

[Babbo]

Thanks shadow, and vladimir: I really wonder that you're having sound problems underlying these specifications. Therefore I suggest you concentrate your investigations in the area of your sound card and respective drivers.

[shadow51689]

Hmm? I'm not having any problems!

[Darknessesbane]

"Thanks shadow, and vladimir: I really wonder..." He was thanking you and refering to vladmir's problem.

[Babbo]

Right, Darknessesbane ... thanks for clearing that problem ... :D

[HomerDOHSimpson]

When is complex 5.5 supposed to be released. :loco:

(feel free to correct grammatical faults)

[Juggernaughty]

The only gramatical mistake you made there was your punctuation. It should have ended in a question mark, not a period. :thumb:

[Babbo]

HomerDOHSimpson: It IS released! (I have to admit that I'm surprised, given their release date as October 10 and 10/05 ... did I sleep?)

Anyways, :)!

Edit: Obviously, it was released today (as it can be seen on p.1 of this thread, while they have not yet corrected the date on their download page. Sure ..., we can live with this "drawback" :D).

Thanks again to Italy!

[Tennisman]

Um, the Remote Monitor is still not working.

[Coey]

I can't edit the command line prompt with the -mod extension. It just comes up with the error message everytime. :(

EDIT: NVM. Got it working now. I had a moment of immense stupidness.

[Draconica]

oh oh oh...so what changes? I can't download and play till this coming Sunday..aaaaahhhhh. ~grins~

On another note, anyone here able to take on 3 same-team expert Vagyr playing Hiigaran... I'd like to hear any potential advice/recomendations.
I have a group of friends who are all playing and getting good enough to play multiplayer, but were never free at the same time, so I'm often stuck playing vs CPU only :/
Honestly, I'd just be curious to hear what my fellow Complex players like for advanced tactics (IE players who can beat 2 or more experts or 3 or more hards).
The level of challange between Hard and Expert is substantial it always seems. Though that just may be a perception.

Fleet Na'Voi

P.S. Let me take this moment to plug the fact that there is now an option to donate :) So if your able, say thank you for all the fine fine work that has been done on Complex.. And may it continue! :)

[LT mor]

I am very new to this Mod ...

I installed it as you spec, but i don't see any change on the campaign map ...
or to the main menu.

I change the resolution in the game shortcut so I know that the line work ...

my install directory :

D:\games\Homeworld2\Data\Complex55.big

my shortcut line :

D:\games\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Homeworld2.exe -mod Complex55.big -w 1152 -h 864

[bog911]

This Mod Absolutly ROCKS !!! I love it !

[nexes300]

You could try removing the resolution changes, or you could put the resolution ones before the -mod, but other than that not sure what you could try.

[utpoorboy]

Great Mod. It's easy to getted hooked on. Anyone want to play online? email me. :sniper: :bigwave:

[HomerDOHSimpson]

Hm, which file contains your "Units keep their full graphic detail at a greater visual range." feature?
I'd like to use this for normal HW2 too.

Edit: I think there is a bug with the trade containers. If you have many resources (throu megalith or wathever) the TC's generate "negative" res. Whats this?

[LT mor]

Is this mod is for the campaign ?


or only the single map ?

[HomerDOHSimpson]

Is this mod is for the campaign ?


or only the single map ?
I think it would but actually it don't because the menu access to the sp campaign has been deleted.

[Draconica]

The mod was designed (I believe) primarily for multi-player, or skirmish vs CPU.

[Sarkazein]

Yes. So far Multiplayer only. Dunno how you'd incorporate something like this into the storyline without massive changes to said storyline... was hard enough as it was ^_^

[Draconica]

A nice single player game can be fun. I bet such would rock, using complex rules...a LOT more room for progression and extending the story out. However, that would likely take a LOT more work than has already been done. And I for one, am anxious to see the Vagyr 'complexed' to balance things out before I worry too much about a single player line.

One of these days I really need to get the tools, and learn to develop so I can help with such things rather than idly sitting to the side waiting for great work to be done for me. hehe

[Eightball_DH]

Awesome work. It starts a little slow, but I'm just so impressed by how much the game has been modded! You've inspired me, and now I want to mod.

Can't wait for 6.0! :bandit:

[Draconica]

As a new player, don't overlook the power of RU fusion and the defensive value of mobile refineries set to aggressive in numbers. (Actually, set your MShip, Carrier, Shipyard, Research/Crew station, All Harvesters/Refineries to Aggressive [F4]).

This single thing will assist greatly in anti fighter defense, as well as bolster your automatic RU production later on. Which is important when branching out to new harvest locations is too difficult/dangerous.

Also, defense module with mothership improved defenses researched will go a long way to stopping initial enemy forces.

[sutyi]

Hi guys. I've the feel that the Hiigarian Heavy Ion Platform on the mothership is bit overpowered. It tooks out a fully upgraded Vaygr Battlecruiser with ~3 shots. :\

[HomerDOHSimpson]

Hi guys. I've the feel that the Hiigarian Heavy Ion Platform on the mothership is bit overpowered. It tooks out a fully upgraded Vaygr Battlecruiser with ~3 shots. :\

Yes, but it helps the Hiigaran AI to survive a bit longer because they don't upgrade their Battlecruisers... :screwy: :loco:

[shadow51689]

The Heavy Ion Cannon in 5.5 has been toned down a bit already. I remember back in 4.3, one shot was usually enough to destroy an enemy... anything, lol. Even a Flagship went down in one shot. (Not saying that it shouldn't be toned down further, just commenting)

Although I won't complain if the Vaygr Flagship gets more upgradeable things such as weapons.

Great work on 5.5 as usual Beghins, I definitely notice the difference in performance!

[Draconica]

To: Sutyi
The Vagyr are already hands down (still) superior. Due to their un-complexed nature they are very fast, and easy to overwhelm the Hiigaran. (with equally skilled players).

Without first introducing a much more complex research/progression path to the Vagyr and slowing them down some, there really isn't any room to further bolster the vagyrs power by creating new ship upgrades. Unless also combined with complexity to dilute the speed at which the Vagyr attain strength in multiplayer.

Likewise, for that same reason, the Hiigaran MShip's battle cannon is hardly too strong. As great as it is, the game rarely progresses that far (third teir of research). And when it does, it is still not a game-balance-breaking factor, considering how much quicker and how many more Battlecruisers the Vagyr could have built by then. Even with the Battle Cannon and all the upgraded MShip options, you will still need an escort and powerful stay at home fleet to guard your resourcing.

Of course, my opinion is bias by the type of games I find myself playing. Though I think as you progress through the game and start playing the most difficult CPU's you may come to agree. When my group and I first started playing HW2 complex, we initially thought the MShip Battlecannon was a bit much. Playing vs multiple experts now however, Vagyr easily out perform Hiigaran. We're just holding out for (hopefully) eventual 'complexing' of the Vagyr side :)

Naturally, this are just my opinions. So take them with a grain of salt;)

Fleet Na'Voi

[jjwinter]

One Hiigaran vs one standard Vagyr, 2 player map with megalith.

Fresh load of Homeworld 2, with 1.1 update.

Crashes to desktop as soon as crewship emerges from mothership. I have the savegame.

here is my hw2.log

Mon Oct 30 15:44:44 2006
Loaded Archive: 'Homeworld2.big'
UTIL -- filepath failure, path doesn't exists 'C:\PROGRA~1\Sierra\HOMEWO~1\data\locale\english'
Loaded Archive: 'english.big'
Loaded Archive: 'complex55.big'
Uing ..profiles\ for profiles folder
GAME -- Using player profile Player1
Changing from a 32 bit colour depth in winNT (5.1 build 2600), Service Pack 2
Using ATI Technologies Inc.'s 2.0.5646 WinXP Release Radeon X1300 Series x86/MMX/3DNow!/SSE2 renderer (Suspected driver is atioglxx.dll 6.14.10.5646)
Loaded Archive: 'englishSpeech.big'
Loaded Archive: 'Music.big'
SOUND -- created destination [ fdaudio ], handle [ 4 ] with [ 48 ] channels created
SOUND -- created destination [ fda streamer ], handle [ 5 ] with [ 8 ] channels created
Build name: The Dust Wars - AutoBuild3569 - Ordered by smmatte
Built by : mrbuild
Data path : C:\PROGRA~1\Sierra\HOMEWO~1\data
Resetting fp control word.
CmdLine: -mod complex55.big
binding for hotkeyId:9 not found
binding for hotkeyId:19 not found
luasobgroupactions 1427: SobGroup_CreateShip: could not create a ship in sobgroup (hgn_crewstation0)
parameter: hgn_crewstation0
stack traceback:
1: function `transportcell' at line 9 [string ""]

[Lebatron]

I'm having a problem trying to get this mod to work. 1.1 patch is installed and I then placed the Complex55.big into the dat folder next to the HW2.big. Then next I followed the readme step to adjust the shortcut. After I add -mod Complex55.big to the path and select apply I get an error message. The change won't take for some reason. I would include a screen shot but I see no way to browse to the jpg to attack it. There is an insert image button but it asks for a URL for some reason rather than let you browse the hard drive. Thanks for any help.

[jjwinter]

Tried a new game, same settings, map, etc...

No problems, played great from start to finish.

Just a fluke?

[Dragonfury]

Yeah sometime the game crashes... it happens at random times but it hardly does it to me anymore

[HomerDOHSimpson]

I'm having a problem trying to get this mod to work. 1.1 patch is installed and I then placed the Complex55.big into the dat folder next to the HW2.big. Then next I followed the readme step to adjust the shortcut. After I add -mod Complex55.big to the path and select apply I get an error message. The change won't take for some reason. I would include a screen shot but I see no way to browse to the jpg to attack it. There is an insert image button but it asks for a URL for some reason rather than let you browse the hard drive. Thanks for any help.
This is a general shortcut-problem. Try to use quotes for the commandlines and most importantly, look if the path is correct.

[Babbo]

Also, note that -mod Complex55.big is not included in the quotes and, as just mentioned, check your target and the working directory.

[DJGspinNHitz]

Any word on new ships for 6.0?
GQ

[WGAnubis]

Downloaded and played it last night. Over all I like it, however I feel that theres a balance issue with resources in that everything seems to cost a bit much. I like to play with inital resources at high (5000) and I ussually spend all of it within the first few minutes.

The juggernaught I didnt know what it did until I hit scuttle when it was being boarded so I think that in the discription it should indicate its a suicide craft as I thought it was the battlecruiser's (I think thats whats its called, this mod made me reinstall the game after nearly a year of not playing) little brother and could help in a pitched battle I was having.

I like the fact that gaining officers is controled by honor, but I feel the inital amount is way to small.

Finally, I feel that the AI has some sort of unfair advantage over me. Ussually when im ready to begin building my fleet, the AI comes rolling in with several destroyers, frigites, and a few fighters almost as an after thought. Keep in mind that by this time ive gone a fair deal down the tech tree.

All in all, I like it, and look forward to the next verson.

[HomerDOHSimpson]

Finally, I feel that the AI has some sort of unfair advantage over me. Ussually when im ready to begin building my fleet, the AI comes rolling in with several destroyers, frigites, and a few fighters almost as an after thought. Keep in mind that by this time ive gone a fair deal down the tech tree.

All in all, I like it, and look forward to the next verson.

Give yourself an ally and watch what he does but remember, the Vaygr AI works better. (Hig BC's without armament :wtf2: )

[adamstrange]

Will there ever be an overhaul of the Vaygr ships?

Right now,the Higs have all the cool upgrades and very ,very few for the Vaygr.

[WGAnubis]

Ended up doing that and managed to make BattleCruisers with full weapons (let me say it was most satisfying watching 3 of those babies rip apart the enemy mother ship). I found it erking that my fighters, and consinquently anything that was close to a big ship that blows up goes with it, however that said it also found it realistic and actually liked the setback.

One thing I did notice though, was that the enemy fleet didnt really do anything when I had an ally with me. I took your advice and watched the ally and he didnt really send anything over to the enemy save a few destroyers and the occasional wing of fighters. I dont know if this was an error or something wrong with the AI.

[HomerDOHSimpson]

One thing I did notice though, was that the enemy fleet didnt really do anything when I had an ally with me. I took your advice and watched the ally and he didnt really send anything over to the enemy save a few destroyers and the occasional wing of fighters. I dont know if this was an error or something wrong with the AI.

Hm... yeah i remember. Does this occur in normal HW2 too?

[WGAnubis]

I dont believe so. Ive played a few times with an computer ally and he did fine.


It seems the mod disables the campain. On a side note, if I started the program with a shortcut that was unaltered could I play the campain or do I have to disable the mod somehow?

[Skandalos]

5.5 works so much better! Player vs CPU turned from hardly playable performance-wise to perfectly playable, no matter how many units or RU chunks are on the map!

[Draconica]

WGAnubis.
Where are you running into problems specifically with the enemy AI?
Is it a matter of honor? RUs? or just overwhelmed?

I generally suggest holding off on building the research vessel right at the start. Wait until you have a full 12 harvesters on your starting resource patch, and make sure you've moved your Mothership close to the patch.

From there, built the research ship and module immediately. I usually am able to upgrade a few of the Harvesting options in research while waiting for the defense module to build. (you did build your Harvest control mod and drive system mod first thing right?? :) )... Soon as the defense module is complete, research 'Mothership Defense Upgrades'.
MAKE SURE your mothership, any mobil refineries (any normally non-aggressive ships actually) are set to F4 (aggressive). Usually the first wave of enemy fighters are incoming on your base just as you complete your MShip defense upgrades. Well, with your MShip set to aggressive, it auto fires on incoming vessles automatically. It will wipe up the first wave, and most any other 'fighter' and later corvette waves.
This helps in two ways. One, it kills the enemy preventing them from harming your harvesting operation.
Two, and more importantly, it boosts your honor, and quickly.
At that stage, start cranking out either your crew ship or Carrier. In slow games (easier CPU, or only 1 cpu) build the Carrier first (move it to the back/top of your MShip). In games with multiple CPU, or harder CPU opponents, build the crew ship first, as you'll achieve honor quicker in games with more aggressive enemies.

Even without that first honor upgrade, with a carrier, you can still pump out a 5 squad of Vettes to help kill their initial fighter/vette swarms. If you opt for the Crew ship first.. make sure your cranking out mobil refineries.. positioning them, AND setting them to aggresive. (they have nice anti fighter guns AND they generate free money if you research teh RU fusion technology) This will help bolster your anti fighter (and fast honor gaining) defense.

Once you've unlocked that 2nd honor teir... from there you have choices to make. And I suggest experiment, have fun, try different kinds of enemies.

Good luck

Fleet Na'Voi

P.S. Yes, an unaltered shortcut, will allow you to play the normal HW2 game/campaign. Hence the nice aspect of using the .big file mod's.

[WGAnubis]

Id have to say its being overwelmed and possibily RU's. One thing I always insist upon is probing the hell out of the map to watch the enemy, the AI seems to ignore the mining station in the center of the map so they are only using two asteroid areas. Im ussually able to survive an attack they throw at me but eventually they always over take me.

[Draconica]

If your playing against a single (even double later on) CPU...try this.

as SOON as your mothership has the Defensive module and upgraded defense researched (and drive module from earlier), leave your carrier (with harvest control module) at your primary resourcing operation, and start driving your mothership straight to the enemies base. Park your mothership just out of his Motherships defensive range (or inside it, won't matter) and use your mothership to slaughter all his Harvesters, and any fighters he tries to scramble against you. You'll find that quickly you shut down his RU income. Hopefully by then, your carrier will have been producing (I recommend minegun corvettes) units to send as reinforcements (or defend against a 2nd cpu at your harvesting). Just research Ion Destroyers as soon as possible, and start building those off your mothership.

Also.... once you move your mothership away from your harvesting operation, click on your MShip, and zoom in and click on the Harvest control module, and scuttle it..freeing up a slot for an additional module. If you've used this particular strat... I suggest having (after swapping out the Harvest Control Module for somethign else) Drive Control, Defense, Firecontrol, and then Manufacturing ....and of course the 'special' modules (torpedo, shield, and if the game takes that long (it shouldent) Battle Cannon).

Even single expert CPU's crumble before the mothership rush. This however, dosen't work quite as well against another player. But vs the computer, its a good strat. Against 2 computers as well, it can be a good way to eliminate one fast, so you only have another one to deal with. But you'll get to that stage down the road :) In the mean time, good luck and have fun :)

[WGAnubis]

After rethinking my strat with help of some of the ideas I managed to slowly take over the map and eventually had the mine station. Things were going great, when the ships I had left to guard the mining station starting to fire on a juggernaught. Thankfully though by this time I had put quite a bit of research into the platforms (Side note, I feel the platforms need more strength, the ion one was taken out in a few shots by a destroyer) and so fired my cash of viper missles at the thing. It brought the thing within an inch of its life and the destroyers finished the job... then the game crashed.

I checked and my system exceeds the games recommended specs by quite a bit. I dont know how much fire power that ship was packing but I think it was packing some power under it as I know when I used one in my other game it was upgraded once in terms of nukes.

All in all im definitely enjoying this mod, though I think ill get into the habit of saving my game before I commit to a major operation (I think I forgot to save prior to launching the assualt on the mining station, D'oh!)

[Draconica]

Yeah, I get the occasional crash. Though rather rarely. Usually the only time I crash is playing vs 5 cpu. But my desktop is kinda a crap machine, even though its in excess of the original system requirements.
Glad to hear your making progress. Maybe when I get back home later in November, we can set up a multiplayer game.. either vs, or co-op depending on how far along you've come in skill in the mod :) Multiplayer is the way to go with Complex, though vs CPU is fun too.

[Armada]

Hi great mod!!! best mod i have treid so far, add a total new edge to the game play.

I have one question, i treid using the search function with no luck and u prb been asked so many times (so many pages to look through i gave up in the end) is there any way we can use our own maps? or ones from the un modded game? Be greatful for ur help if anyone know's

Again Great mod!:bombface:

[WGAnubis]

Is collision detection possible?

I had launched a attack using 4 fully armed battle cruisers fully researched, im talking a a practical unstopable ship and I had 4 of them. Anyway, I was attacking the enemy mother ship and it was moving forward towards one of my ships. Just as it was going down it "crashed" into one of my battle cruisers. Im thinking its going to take it with it but survived, barely, but considering how buffed it was it was still holding its own.

Anyway, im just wondering, if a ship could crash into another and cause major damage. I would imagine that the mothership, even though it was in its final sections, would have managed to take the battlecruiser.

Is this possible? Maybe as a command option to have a ship target the closest enemy ship and ram it.

[Draconica]

Armada:
Because the game is compiled into the .big format, no you cannot use your own maps. This is the one downside of using the compiled/easy to install .big format.
Running mods uncompressed requires you to have duplicates of the entire file structure there abouts. Which for one is excessively large..and requires you to rename things back and forth depending on which mod you wish to use. BUT..the nice thing about that more complicated method is that you can use your own maps.
I feel you on this, as I did a little map design back in Complex 4.2 before it became released only in .big

Anubis:
No collision damage currently. I have no idea if Beghins plans on implimenting something like that in the future.. I think that may be more than this mod will do however. Maybe one of the developers will answer.

[HX45]

In fact, a ship can crash in a cloaked ship. It happened to me once, I was quite surprised, but not as surprised as my friend when his battlecruiser collided with my cloacked carrier, making both ships to explode and saving my tulwar frigate squadron from a dangerous fight :p .

For custom maps, you can extract the Complex .big file content, add maps, and recompile it using Archive Tool from the RDN.
Notice all players must download your new .big file to play. 40MB is a bit large so you may want to compile your maps in a distinct .big file, and launch game using
Homeworld2.exe -mod Complex.big,CustomMaps.big
With this you'd only need to send CustomMaps.big, which would be less large, to other players.

[Draconica]

Ssweeeeeeet. Thats awsome. I'll give that a spin:)
I get a bit bored with maps that don't have some kind of 'space-terrain' to make the game more involved maneuvering wise.

[WGAnubis]

Yeah I have to agree, im kinda hoping some maps like from the campain end up in 6.0 or future releases. Fighting in open space is cool and all, but really it makes using the Z axis pointless.

[Dragonfury]

Heh ships running into each other lol I remember in the orginal homeworld the ships did that... was really a draw back seeing as I had a massive amount of ships. It's interesting to see that once more

[WGAnubis]

Ive started playing as Vager and noticed, that dispite the fact that they seem to have to research more, they tend to get ships sent out faster. Is this intentional or is balance still being worked on?

[Draconica]

Well, the Vagyr even before the complex mod tended to 'appear' more expensive on research upgrades. This was misleading however, as Hiigaran have to research 'individual' ship type upgrades, where as Vagyr upgrades affect an entire category of ship. So the Vagyr are in fact faster to research and cheaper overall. The Hiigaran make up for this in that they get more overall upgrades.

Now introduce 'complex'. The Hiigaran have been the lovechild of this mod, and the focus of the majority of the 'toys'; fun stuff, the most research upgrades and tweaks.
This was done, as in the original game, the Vagyr were by far at an advantage in a players hands do to the speed at which they could race up the technology tree.

The gap has only widened with the advent of additional 'complexing' of the game. Mainly because the Hiigaran have gotten all the tweaking to be more complex. And though the Vagyr have access to the same technologies, they can easily complete 100% of their research tree in a game. I have NEVER completed the research in Hiigaran, or even complete the tree in every type of Hiigaran ship I would use up and through the end game.

This disparity leads to a multiplayer game where both players are equally skilled, the Vagyr will hands down stomp the Hiigaran easily. So generally, in a multiplayer game..either let the least experienced player run Vagyr, OR make sure that all players are picking the same race.

Hopefully in time, Beghins will be able to adjust the Vagyr in such a way that they don't lose their trademark 'style' of play/advancement, but still 'complex' them the way the Hiigaran are, so that they progress slower than they do now, and share some of the inhibitive weaknesses of the Hiigaran fleet (Namely a dependance on seperate ships to house Crew module.) - Losing a research ship hurts, but losing a Crew Station mid/late in the game can be crippling. That, and 'crew' pods, give away the location of your fleet, or Crew Station in the event of maneuvering to stay out of your enemies sights.

I love the Vagyr myself, but find I only play Hiigaran these days to keep things challanging. Try playing Vagyr versus Hiigarn CPUs.... Then Try Hiigaran vs Vagyr CPUs... you'll see what I'm talking about. You can regularly take 1-2 more expert CPUs playing Vagyr vs Hiigaran. When playing Hiigaran vs Vagyr however, you'll get a very rude beat down playing the same numbers.

I'm very much looking forward to seeing the Vagyr complexified to bring them into even standing with the Hiigaran. Which can be done without weakening their fleet. Just need to put a few technology roadblocks/complexities into the research tree.

Well, my thoughts anyway;)

[WGAnubis]

Definitely looking forward to seeing what the vayger get when the Hargains are done.

One thing that I thought of that might be an interesting technology to be added is the ability to reverse engineer your oppoents technology.

Say the Haragains want a hyperspace gate, they dispatch a resource collector to drag one to the mothership, in it goes, and after the amount of resources being taken out that it would have cost to get that technology in all its current upgrades, you get to build your own. I always thought it odd that in the homeworld 2 campain, you were never given the option to reverse enginneer your own hyperspace gates when they can only send destroyers and below threw them.

[WGAnubis]

A dud cruise missle:
Started playing as Vayger to see what their tech tree is like. I see destroyer group coming to me so I build a few cruise missiles aim and fire. I think to myself 'Man these things are huge, bet they are going to make a dent' missile hits, and the health goes down the slightest amount! I fire the rest, thinking it was a mistake, same outcome. Whats more, one of them missed its mark and spent its time flying around its target being taken out. Did I miss a step or is the cruise missile bugged?

Hyperspace gate a bigger target then mother ship:
The AI seems to class hyperspace gates as a larger threat then the mothership. I found this out when I had moved my refineries to the roof of the map and put a gate next to it and linked it to my shipyard site, in the off hand I had to move my fighters. Anyway about 10 minutes later the AI comes over with alot of firepower, I move my refinieriest threw the gate and they destroy the gate. I build another one and move it to the other side of the map. Ten minutes later the AI is at the second gate and the process repeats. All this time not a single ship is sent to the mothership to attack it.

Promotion handycap?
There seems to be a natural handycap in rank promotion when playing as Vayger, is this on purpose? The AI tends to get to the higher rank then I dispite the fact that I have more RU and research going on and that I win every engagement. In the end this prevents me from ever becoming the last rank.


Question:
Does the AI track where my mothership is? I had devised an idea of having the mothership and fleet constantly moving around the map in parade. My thinking was that it would make it infinitly harder on the AI to come after me as I figured sence im not in the same place twice. The plan met with limited success. The AI kept finding me (I had peppered my side of the map with probes and could watch the enemy fleet movements), however ussually by the time they were in firing range my mothership and fleet were passed them and managed to avoid being pulled into a dogfight, leaving that to the more combat inclined ships and fighers. This seemed to work for keeping my carriars (which dont seem to have any firepower) and mothership just out of harms way.

Does the sensor destortion probe work on the AI? How exactly does it work?

Finally the defense sheild. I was attacking the haragin mothership and it put up its sheild, I had already taken out its ion cannon (which had taken out one of my battle cruisers) but when it deployed the sheild, I guess one of the ships was in the bubble and instantly blew up. Is this by accident or design?

[shadow51689]

Cruise missiles have always been that way, big, make lots of noise... and that's about it... Tango mines also miss their target as often, although I haven't used them in recent versions.

The higher level AI definitely seem to spontaneously generate honor, I guess to give them an edge over players.

As for the AI, you forget that they pretty much ARE the game. They know where all of your stuff is at all times, even if they are programmed not to act as so. Really, sensor distorting and cloaking is for use by the Ai against you, or by other players.

And for the defense field, I've never noticed it causing damage. Are you sure it wasn't a collision? (I learned the hard way to fear collisions the other day, when a group of my BC's were flying backwards to get away from a Juggernaught explosion, and backed straight into my Flagship... Insta-death for my Flagship, yet the BC was hardly scratched lol)

[DJ Die]

true yeah it was surely collision
because for example bombers can enter def field and fry your subsystems damned buggers...

[Draconica]

Perhaps the cruise missiles are set to only do their appropriate damage against ships larger than destroyers?
Destroyers are 'capital' class, but still on the smaller side.
Cruisers could be more of an anti BC/Jugg utility. I guess we'll need to test that.

The way the computer 'knows' where to find you does piss me off on occasion. But none the less it doesn't save them. And besides, you can pull tricks like using small scouts to 'lure' enemy strike forces into chasing them to where you have your strongest force situated. (particularly good when they are heading for an unprotected resourcing op) Not a tactic I use often, as its a blatant abuse of AI...but good to keep in mind.

Lastly...when using Vagyr, have you tried rushing your mothership against the Hiigaran after you pop your first carrier out? ... then build your Shipyard midway to the enemy. The idea is to engage the enemy with your improved mothership defenses, and power disrupter. And Destroyers from your mothership, Battle cruisers from your shipyard, and frigates from your carrier.

One on One, this seems to net a very very hard to stop strat. At least vs a computer. (though I probably ought to re-test the viability of this, as I've been playing Hiigaran pretty exclusively being the harder side to win with)

Lemme know if any of that works out for you;)

[shadow51689]

I've tried them on BC's with pretty much the same results. Don't think I've used them on MS\Flagships, or the Juggernaught yet however.

Yep, and another thing I like to do is slaughter an AI's resource op, leaving one poor collector to limp back to his main base\carrier. :devil: Who needs scouts when I have collectors I can pick on?

[WGAnubis]

If anything the Cruise missles should be vastly surpior to the other races missiles, 4 viper missiles should equal 1 cruise missile to be exact. 4 viper missiles can take out a destroyer, 6 for a juggernaught, and considering the cruise missile is 4 times as big as the viper missiles it only makes further sence.

[XR3]

Howdy folks, was wondering if anyone could tell me why my game keeps crashing, actually it doesn't really crash. The game just freezes and my mouse pointer reverts to the desktop pointer. At this point I am unable to do anything. The lock keys still work and if I press any button, I can hear the desktop beep but the game is completely frozen on my screen. Ctrl+alt+ delete doesn’t work nor any combination of other keys. So I’m forced to hardboot which pretty much sucks considering that I invest several hours into each game. Any help would be really appreciated since I haven't been able to actually finish a single game so far. Thanks in advance.

[Homdax]

Does your HW2 game work normally without Complex?
If not, please review the Support threads located here
http://forums.relicnews.com/forumdisplay.php?f=14

[XR3]

My original homworld 2 works just fine, it has never crashed/frozen on me since I got the game. This problem only seems to be with the mod so far, I'd appreciate any help.

[cozza2053]

hey i downloaded the 5.5 mod how do i install it?

[WGAnubis]

I think I found a bug with the core. My mother ship was destroyed but before that had happened I had moved the core to another area of the map. When it blew up and I clicked on rebuild mother ship however I did not have enough funds. Didnt get the mother ship and the option to build it again dissapeared. When I manged to get enough funds I tried again, and luckly the option came back. However the core dissapeared and the mother ship did not return, however I did get the mother ship window and it told me it was in the center of the map and had build options. clicking on them didnt do anything. Seeing as I had been defeated I just quit that game.

[Draconica]

WGAnubis:
Hmm.. I know my friends have gotten the core to work in the older versions of the game. I haven't tried in in the new revisions however, so afraid I don't have any advice for that particular bug.

Cozza2053:
Try unzipping the files, then open and follow the instructions in the readme file.

XR3:
Maybe try setting the HW2.log file to read only, then apply it. Rerun the game after that, may fix it. If not, you'll probably need to post the error log (via debug mode if I remember correctly) to the forums for the real admins to look at ;)

[WGAnubis]

Thought id update the situation with the cruise and viper missiles. I tried useing a few viper missiles one at a time on an ion destroyer, get the feel for it to see how many it takes to kill one. Well a problem arised where the viper missiles werent doing any damage by themselves. After a few minutes though of not firing them one at a time they worked again.

[Gotcha]

Mebbe it's just my comp but I think I've spotted a problem with the Remote Monitor. This doesn't happen (doesn't seem to happen) with every game, but I get different issues:

- last game I've played the Remote Monitor (after loading a saved game) displayed 3 "CP3" opponents. Not CpU1, CPU2, CPU3, but CPU3, CPU3, CPU3, all with the same name (default user's name on my comp).

- every now and then, at the end of a game, the Remote Monitor displays opponents that have been destroyed, just as if it had forgotten to remove them from the list. So you think there's still at least one opponent to fight, but there's none left in reality. After a few moments you get the "Your fleet is victorious" message, but only after you've wasted time looking for opponents that don't exist anymore.

Uh? :hmm:

[shadow51689]

Was testing some stuff so I'd re-enabled the Hw2.log file and forgot to put it back to read-only, and started a game of Complex. I got the following fatal error an hour or so into the game.


1: function `sobgroups' at line 193 [string ""]
Ship Hgn_CrewStation has no parade formation! Make sure it has one. -- FATAL EXIT -- paradecommand/295:! --stack trace-- 0x00647317: getLibraryID () 0x0064761C: getLibraryID () 0x0045F919: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= () 0x0045136D: GSLobbySessionDesc::operator= () 0x0060ADDF: getLibraryID ()


Hopefully it'll help iron out one of the few remaining crash bugs.

[beghins]

Ciao,

Complex is on ModDB for the mod of the year, so if you want vote for it follow this link, thanks, Beghins.

http://mods.moddb.com/7857/homeworld-2-complex/

[Homdax]

Voted. Twice...but what is that c**p about guest voters...
Did they ever heard of IP-based polls?

[Shooter_1_]

this mod being played online to any extent?

I mean, when I hop on the online I hardly see people playing hw2 in the first place...

[surfinsofaspud]

:dunce:

Well I solved my own problem... nm... (I re-aquainted myself with the search function:err: )


The mod is AWESOME!! (sorry 'bout yelling)

it's true...

I got owned... easily...quickly... but it's a great mod!!


---thanx

[shadow51689]

Ciao,

Complex is on ModDB for the mod of the year, so if you want vote for it follow this link, thanks, Beghins.

http://mods.moddb.com/7857/homeworld-2-complex/

Done. :)


Voted. Twice...but what is that c**p about guest voters...
Did they ever heard of IP-based polls?

Hmm... I could only vote once?

[Homdax]

I have two conns...which means two IP's. :p

[Sobani Exile]

can u add more mega ships like sajuuk or the dreadnaught plz or maybe a palnet killer plus wen will v6.5 be out



i a fan of complex do not die i salute u!:salute:

[heuristic13]

Howdy folks, was wondering if anyone could tell me why my game keeps crashing, actually it doesn't really crash. The game just freezes and my mouse pointer reverts to the desktop pointer. At this point I am unable to do anything. The lock keys still work and if I press any button, I can hear the desktop beep but the game is completely frozen on my screen. Ctrl+alt+ delete doesn’t work nor any combination of other keys. So I’m forced to hardboot which pretty much sucks considering that I invest several hours into each game.
I am encountering the exact same problem with a save game using Complex 5.5. This never happened with Complex 3.0 nor HW2. I'm about 1.5 hours into the game with this save game. It's either because I had to save the game and it never loads properly, or because of something Im doing in the game.

I've been able to reproduce the problem 3 times (this situation occurs seemingly based on my actions - not the amount of time after loading the save game): load 3 small groups of fighters/corvettes onto a carrier ("stay docked" activated) bringing the total number of small craft up to 19 in the carrier's hangar bay. Direct the carrier having an Anti-Radiation subsystem into a radioactive nebulae with a Destroyer and group of Frigates escorting/guarding. Construct a Capital Ship Facility on my shipyard, and the Manufacturing and Repair System subsystems on the shipyard. Once the Carrier arrives, press the 'L' key to view the launch panel. Pressing L causes the crash. I know that if I hit 'L' immediately after loading up the carrier to 19 ships works fine. Based on my stats, Im being promoted to Captain (or whatever is at 126 honor) during this sequence. There are no battles in progress.

This all occurs within the first 5 minutes of gameplay.

Instead of doing a hardboot, I do a Windows Restart using the keyboard equivalents - Start Menu key, up arrow, enter, 'R' key.

Heuristic

Ok, I narrowed the cause of the problem down to 1 action I am doing to cause the crash: flying my Carrier into the radioactive nebulae and pressing the 'L' key. If I don't do that, I can continue playing the game for another 0.5 hours or more. It isn't the center nebulae, it one of the ones on the outside.

Im playing the Bentus Flat Nebula map. Anyone able to debug this map?

Heuristic

[XR3]

Glad to know that it's not my puter that's messing up. Hopefully there's gonna be a fix one of these days.

[heuristic13]

I also noticed that my fighters and corvettes received damage while held in the hangar bay of my carrier while they were inside of the radioactive nebulae. The only way I was able to notice this was by clicking on the Launch button - instead of pressing the 'L' key. I could watch the health bars deplete from each and once empty the ship would disappear, never launching from the carrier.

So to continue with my original strategy, I launched all ships (& enabled auto-launch) prior to entering the nebulae and kept all 19 ships close to the carrier as she made her way across. Even resource collectors built from that carrier would receive a fraction of damage when launching after being constructed - enough for the verbal announcement "collector taking damage" or something like that.

Heuristic

[Iguana]

I have a Question: is complex only a multiplayer game or it habe a single player too????
^^

[Kendrick]

Has any one tried running complex on 2k3 server? I can play other mods just fine complex CTD's and leaves a minidump

hw2 patched, no-cd programs not in use. updated drivers.

[heuristic13]

I have a Question: is complex only a multiplayer game or it habe a single player too????
Yes, Complex runs very well at multiplayer. I've usually played Complex 3.0 multiplayer. Haven't tried 5.

Heuristic

[Iguana]

O S**t I have seen a lot of pics and it looks realy cool... If it only have a single player mode...
Well thanks for all!! ^^

[Kendrick]

:help: I just found if I go in to the audio panel it crashes the game gona try some different audio drivers etc.

[Carl]

I tried this last night, only got a couple of games so bear that in mind. Also I DID enjoy the mod, so my next set of complaints are best taken in light of that.

1. Flak Frigates and Gunship Corvettes are HORIFFICLY overpowered ATM, they just do far too much damage to Frigate and Capital Class vessels despite supposedly being weak against them. I had 6 Squadrons of Gunship Corvettes strip a 1/3 of the health off both my Research Ship and my Mothership, as well as kill half my Recourses before the MS guns could kill them, (it was my first game and I wasn't expecting such an aggressive attack). What bothers me the most about that is the speed at which they did all that damage, most of my frigate battles lasted longer than that battle did.

Likewise, in Frigate vs. Frigate battles I found forces of 10 Flak Frigates giving me all kinds of headaches because they could so easily rip apart vast numbers of my frigates before i could kill them. This wouldn't have been a problem if all I’d been using where Flak and Torpedo Frigates, but when mixed forces of 5 Flak Frigates, 5 Ion Frigates, and 5 Sniper Frigates are suffering 5 dead to 10 Flak Frigates and a couple of Bomber squadrons it's a bit much, (no one had any upgrades as far as i could tell BTW).

2. The Honour system needs a serious look at IMHO. Right now the amount of Honour Battle can give you (compared to other sources), is FAR too high. It basically forces you to rush hard or be rushed in turn and lose as they out rank you. I'm something of a cautious player, I won't start a major battle until I’ve got a decent balanced force, something I can't achieve until I’ve got the second research module up. Thus I’m pushed into a turtling Hard Tech strategy to compete. I'm not a turtler by nature, but I don't rush either. The units available initially are, IMHO, nothing more than raider units. Since the MS hull guns are so strong I see no point in trying to raid with any of them except against isolated recourse operations, but in the time it would take me to build a raiding fleet and get it to my enemy I could hard tech to Ion and Sniper Frigates.

Finally my inability to build a decent balanced navy causes problems because it makes it nearly suicidal to try and claim any recourse patch your MS isn't sat on top of as I can't possibly defend both it and my MS.

3. The odd poor explanation: Both the Juggernaught and Trade container are terribly explained. I had 12 trade container running round and was getting NOTHING for them. I don't even know what I was doing wrong either. Likewise, the Juggernaught isn't labelled as a suicide unit. I built one thinking I was getting a Long Range Nuke Missile launching platform and it basically sat their doing nothing, so I scuttled it in frustration. Bam my entire fleet gets wiped out.

4. The Syrio, Khopesh, Tulwar and the BC Rapid Sweepers all need to be gotten rid of. I've played enough different RTS games to know that Super ships that do everything wreck things utterly. They're fun initially, but soon the formulae of research best tech, spam best ships becomes extremely boring. Stuff like that just shouldn't be in there IMHO.

I think that’s it for now.

It’s a good mod, but you need to look hard at a lot of littlie details IMO.

[shadow51689]

I'm assuming you hadn't researched Mothership improved defenses? If you had, you would have saved yourself quite a lot of trouble... The Mothership's torpedos split into multiple smaller torpedos, which absolutely obliterate Corvettes, especially the slow, tightly packed Hiigaran corvettes. The torpedos would have also done a number on the flak frigates. A couple Missile Frigates quickly renders Gunships into space dust as well.

Honestly I don't see how you could have lost a frigate fleet that sized to a couple of flak frigates... You did place your snipers as far back as they could be right? Firing at different targets (if upgraded with long range torpedoes)?

The whole point of the honor system was to get players to go out and engage the enemy. Simply sitting at your base and building your fleet will almost garuntee you a loss. I do admit that the mothership guns are a bit over-effective on fighters however... But I think you'd be surprised by the results of an attack on the enemy's resource operations. Stay on the far side of their Mothership, and pick at any workers on the edge of the operation. The AI often will keep building replacements in favor of fighters or other combat ships.

I do notice that the harder AI tends to gain honor out of the blue... Maybe try a few games with some human opponents.

Honestly I find the Khopesh and Shiry tech to arrive too late in the game to be of much use... (Do the Shiry Callistoes even work as of 5.5? There were some errors referenced to them in the hw.log to them I noticed) The Tulwar isn't really a 'super' ship. It's more of a counter to the Vaygr Warfare frig. I think the Hiigaran side really needed more of a backbone to it's frigate fleet than simple flak frigates. I never really did like the Rapid Sweepers though...

[Carl]

All right a lot of points to answer:

1. The whole fight happened a short distance from the Mothership, they weren’t in range of it's guns and I hadn't twigged at that point that you could build the Torps without taking up a module slot. Most of the losses where from my own 5 Flak Frigates. The problem is the way they do so much damage to frigates in my experience when they concentrate their fire they can kill another frigate in just a few volleys, I’m killing them quick, but their kill rate and the burst fire means they are easily hurting multiple frigates at once, (Flak Frigates tend to group up when firing BTW). I didn't do much separate targeting, I just Ctrl+Drag-Right-Click around the whole lot normally, I only concentrate when I’m dealing with specific situations that require it.

2. That the problem here, if I go out and attack I’m grunted a loss too because not only will I get my Mothership torn to bits as soon as an enemy shows up with a decent fleet, (because I’m losing all my forces on raids). But also, because I’m likely losing more than I’m killing, (because the enemy has the support of his MS guns whilst I don't), that means he's getting as much if not more honour than I am from the encounter. I only launch raids when I know I’m going to get more out of it than I’m going to lose, and only when I have a large enough force to both raid and defend my Mothership. The reality is that it takes so long to get such a force, (because it has to be composed of frigates to avoid unacceptable losses), that I can have the science division under construction by the time I’m ready, and by that point the enemy is attacking me and I don't need to raid to get honour. Your idea about laying hide and seek with the MS guns is a good one, I just don’t think I can pull a force together that quickly.

To give you an idea of how I’m playing things ATM: Generally the first thing I build is the Harvest module followed by advanced sensors, fire control, defence control and 1 other, (drives ATM, but it varies). I also start a research ship going. I might then start a capital class facility for a carrier depending on what I intend to do, usually I’ll get my frigate facility down though. I'm still usually churning out refineries and resourcers at this point though. once I’ve got my resourcing up and running I start on my frigates with a carrier following on, usually 10 frigates. 5 to stop home and 5 to go raiding. Exact composition varies as often by the time the 5th frigate is done I’ve got science division on the way. AT which point I’ll keep the frigates on hold and wait for sniper frigates as their range and firepower make great raiders in theory and not bad defence ships too.

Research tends to focus on harvesting and fusion to get me a decent number of RU's coming in, then on Mothership weapons and then any other combat ship upgrades to start diversifying my fleet composition and increase class combat firepower/speed/HP.

Generally I find that by the time I have a decent force up and running I have no need to go raid and that I’ve effectively teched up a fair bit in any case. Part of it is down to my limited building ability early on, (recourses only seem to be an issue when researching the Fusion upgrades, once I have 4 refineries and a decent number of upgraded collectors out i tend to be okay). However, a lot of it is simply down to the fact that I have to rely on Frigates early on. This means it takes a lot of recourses and time to build a useful fleet.

3. Further play has shown many of my worries about the Uber ships are not as bad as they might have been. the UI description make them sound like they really can do everything when in reality they are merely good at everything, not exceptional as I feared. Nonetheless their are a fair number of ships that, (IMHO), don't have a place in this mod purely because they replicate an already fulfilled role.

These are, (the bits in brackets are what they are duplicating from earlier in the Tech Tree):

Spy (Scout)
XBomber (Bomber with Anti-Subsystem Bombs)
Shiry (Bomber & Interceptor)
Minigun (Pulsar)
Khopesh (Pulsar & Gunship)
Tulwar (Flak & Torpedo & Ion)
Defender (Assault Craft & Lance Fighter)
Multi-Lance Corvette (Laser Corvette)
Warfare Frigate (Assault Frigate & Heavy Missile Frigate & Artillery Frigate)

Despite the above massive list, I think some ships could in fact be saved in terms of models, they just need adjustments in role and armament IMHO.

Lets see:

XBomber: Make the EMP attack a built in normal attack, rather than an upgrade, (although I’ve never seen the upgrade option come up), with a rapid reload time and firing as a normal weapon. this transforms the X Bomber into an anti-subsystem + ECM bomber helping to make it useful in combination with ordinary bomber as ATM theirs no use for it. More often than not destroying my opponent outright is a lot higher on my list of priorities than destroying his subsystems. Add to this the Anti-Subsystem Bombs of Bombers and the ability of any decent force to focus fire a Subsystem into oblivion in short order and you have issues. With Built in EMP on top however it would have considerable utility since it could act to disable other enemy ships for destruction by the rest of the strike force, a useful ability to bring along, especially vs. frigates and other Strike Craft.

Minigun: I'd swap the Anti-Fighter Mines for Anti-Ship Mines and down power the Gun turrets, (same stats each as a Gunship turret except for 1 quarter the damage), and use it in squadrons as a replacement for the Minelayer.

Sniper Frigate: Whilst this doesn’t outright Duplicate roles I thought I’d best mention it as it's a littlie oddball. Right Now I’m not so fond of this ship, the Pulsar having such a Long range really seems at odds with the way ion Weaponry Works, (p.s. Pulsars are Low Power, short firing Ion Cannon in case you don't know). In addition it doesn’t do anything an Ion Frig can’t do nearly as well, the range isn’t that special ATM as theirs no reason not to close to medium range, It’s only at short ranges that grouping, (and hence Flak frigs), become a problem. I'd recommend reducing the Range on the Torpedoes and turning the Ion Frigate into the long range Model. Dump the Pulsar altogether. The Missiles could be short range, (2000), Cluster Missiles with large AoE Blasts that are 0 accuracy against fighters and Corvettes but very accurate and damaging against Frigates. In effect a good way of blowing up large numbers of closely grouped frigates at short ranges. Such a system wouldn't be too good against Long Range Ion frigs or Torpedo frigs, (they don't tend to Group Up). But very effective against Assault Frigates, Flack frigates and Generally anything that comes too near. Just vulnerable to Long range units that can inflict heavy losses before it can get serious firepower off. Shorter Ranged Frigates will suffer however as they tend to group up and need to get into range of it to do any good. A Good general purpose Frigate killer with the ion Frigate being the long Range counter to it.

Tulwar: Replace the Prow Bomb Launchers with EMP cannon, (basically 3 Cannon without burst that act to disable the target, Use the "Dread_Bomb" FX too BTW), these would be much more powerful than those used on the XBomber and thus suitable for disabling Capital Ships, MS, e.t.c. The Turrets should just use the exact same stats as the Pulsar Corvettes Pulsar turrets, (rotation/elevation/depression angles aside which will need to be customised to the appropriate turret). They should act to provide Point Defence only. The EMP cannons really should have Long Range, (read BC Main Gun Ranges). Also give it a Module Subsystem slot.

Overall it now has a support purpose, in combination with lesser frigates they can now take on and defeat BC and DD class vessels without the support of their own BC and DD class units.

Defender: I would drop it's speed by half and adjust the HP's to match that of an Assault Craft, (same armour class too, represent the ease of targeting, but tough nature of the ship), Give each of it's "arms" a Kinetic Cannon that fires one shot with the same stats as a shot from a Hiigaran Gunship Corvette. Since it only fire 3 shots to the Corvettes 4 it is weaker though. Also add a Normal Fire mode EMP system, (copy the scout one but adjust the fire rate). The resultant fighter is a slow moving heavily armed ship, perfect for MS defence and heavy engagement, but unsuited to the raiding style of the Vaygr, making the more numerous and much cheaper Assaults Craft a much better all round fighter in most distant engagements. On the other hand, the defender is a much better escort fighter since the frigates and capital ships it will be escorting will naturally be no faster than it making it excellent for keeping Strike Craft at bay.

Warfare Frigate: I don't honestly know what to do with this thing, the name and model look okay, but without copying my Tulwar I can't see a way to fit this in. All the roles are covered. The best I can think of is some kind of high speed low durability raiding frigate equipped with weaponry mostly effective vs. recourcours and Fighters/Corvettes. If you will, a faster and less well armoured Assault Frigate.

Another point I'd like to raise: Their are several ships that are honestly out of character for the faction they are with, the research trees also have some similar things.

The Ships are:

Intruder
Ion Destroyer
Storm Corvette

The Basic problem is the way ships work for Hiigarans and Vaygr.

Higaran Ships are almost always mostly effective against ships of either the same or Lower Classes, (the Bomber is the only total exception), The ion Frig and Torpedo Frig are partial exceptions, but neither is brilliant at attacking Higher Classes due to their low firepower. Thus the Intruder and Ion Destroyer are totally out of character in this regard as they are meant to engage Higher Classes.

The opposite is true of the Vaygr, all their Ships are meant to engage equal or higher classes. In this regards the Artillery Frigate is great as it's not a brilliant anti-frigate weapon and is only on par with the H.Missile Frig against destroyers, it's against MS and BC classes that it really shines. The Storm Corvette however is a specific anti-Fighter corvette and isn't very fitting.

Of course like Hiigarans the Vaygr do have an exception in the Assault Frigate.

The research is also heavily out from the original styles. For Hiigarans they never ad to research individual ship classes, (except DD/BC). However they do have to get multiple modules to get every ship class, the also tend to have to research a lot of upgrades for each ship class to get them fully up to par, this takes a lot of time. In addition a number of Hiigaran ships have features that need research to unlock.

Vaygr on the other hand have to research each Class before they can research each ship type, (they don't get them automatically like Hiigarans do). On the Flip side they don't need to research Upgrades individually, (saves time if not RU's), and don't have as many individual ship upgrades. They also don't need more than on research Module meaning they can specialise in one area very quickly. Hiigarans on the other hand have to spend resources getting access to everything at once.

Currently the Hiigarans have to research everything AND build lots of research modules.

I'd remove the research requierments from all Hiigaran Fighter, Corvette and Frigate Class Vessels, make them available as soon as the appropriate research module is up. I'd also remove the Shipyard Chassis Research. (I'd also Drop the Improved Missile effects from Torpedo Frigates).

On the Flip Side I’d remove all the ship specific Upgrades, (like fusion missiles on Warfare Frigates/DD/BC and Coordinated Fire on Artillery Frigates), I'd also Lump all the Fusion/Harvesting Upgrades under 1 very expensive research.

Finally two pieces of advise, 1. Increase the base number of officers by 5 and add a carrier back in to the starting fleet to help get fleets off the ground. 2. Add a difficulty level marked Training. The current easy level is a bit harsh when your trying to learn how to play and what does what and how effective something is.

As noted this is a good mod, but I find half the ships make the other half obsolete. This is a big problem that needs addressing IMHO. Something also needs to be done to make raiding more profitable and useful as ATM the raiding is nearly pointless because of the poor cost benefit ratio.

[MisterURL]

When I try to run the mod, I get an error "Sync out of range" and the mod runs (I can hear the front-end music) but I have no display. This error is generated by my monitor, an LCD. I have the latest drivers for the graphics card. I don't have a problem with any other programs. I have done the shortcut target line change to add -mod complex55.big but it doesn't help. Has anyone else reported this? I did a search in the forum but did not find any messages with "sync" in them. Maybe there is a workaround?

Thanks. MisterURL

[Carl]

I means the defualt reseloution is too high.

[MisterURL]

So if I change my monitor resolution (currently 1280 X 1024) to say, 800 X 600, it will load up? I tried putting /1280 in the target line of the shortcut but that didn't work. I will try changing it before I start the game.

Thanks.

[Sajuuk hear my]

:help: ok ive got the mod and ive got it in the data area in my HW2 folder the only problem is that i cant get my HW2 shortcut (which is on the desktop) to accept the filepath. i followed the instructions in the readme and on the website and it always puts the command path is not found and the path im using is C:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2\Bin\Release\Homeworld2.exe -mod Complex55.big i have tried moving the complex file to the release folder and when that didnt work i put it all in 1 folder in the data section and ill wait 4 a reply b4 i start tinkering. any help will be gratefully appreactied
:help:
sincerly Sajuuk hear my
P.S sajuuk hear my plea was my intentioned full name but it was too long and b4 i could correct it i accepted it.
P.S.S if u need to contact me im at nicehunter41@hotmail i live in perth which is 1 hour ahead of the site time.
P.S.S.S (last one) i also use the pirates mod could they be conflicting?
:help:

[Carl]

@Sajuuk Hear My: Sounds like a conflict. You'll have to take the pirates Mod stuff out. Also the filepath you gave is EXACTLY the same as the one I use, (with the Complex Files installed in the loactaion your told to put them in), so it should work.

@MisterURL: yeah, put the set resolution thingy in the Command line. What that error means is the input resolution to your montier is too high for it to display, (at least thats what I get on mine when it's too high). Other things to try would maybe to lower your refresh rate, (your moniter MIGHT use diffrent eror messages to mine), and to try the tech support forums for more expert help as that sounds like somthing the game is causing, but not a result of anything actually wrong with the game.

[Sajuuk hear my]

are u sure u havent put the Complex55.big file somewhere else cause i still got the error msg the target is not valid and ive gotten rid of the pirate stuff

[Sajuuk hear my]

actually never mind i figured it out oput the -mod Complex55.big after the quoates, i thank the http://warlords.swrebellion.com/wp/?p=9 for the idea

[shadow51689]

I can definitely agree with some of your points, I never said Complex was perfect, and I do agree on some things. Currently fighters and corvettes do seem a bit lacking... I mean the MS's improved guns have a accuracy of 90% against fighters! Multiply that by every gun on the Mothership, and you've got an instant strike craft swarm shredder. And the unimproved version (70% accuracy) is on every resource controller, research station, crew station and carrier in their fleet. It doesn't help any that the fighters tend to clump together and hurt each other. The latter, infact, is easily fixed by making the strike craft form mini formations. (And easy to implement, I mean I figured it out lol.)

One thing to note, the MS's Torpedo launchers don't actually take up any other module slots... they're the only thing you can build on that particular 'slot'. Heck, you can even build them before the Improved Defense research item... I don't think that was intended?

I agree with the the Spy being redundant - Turn it into a Defender, slow and cheap. (It already has 3 gun slots) The XBomber is currently targeted as a bomber, but much weaker, resulting in a ship that gets obliterated first by enemy forces, while doing little damage in return. I've actually added an upgradable cloak to these ships to make them of atleast some use...

The Minelayer and the Minegun corvettes are actually very similar (identical?) models... what would be gained from replacing the Minelayer?

The Sniper frigate is really a gem among the Hiigaran frigates... If used right with support, these little frigates can take out waves upon waves of much larger ships. I think the intended effect with using the 'pulsar' effect was to make it look as if they were infact focused ion beams, fired long range in short bursts, hence the duller appearance and lower damage.

The Warfare frigate's emp and pulsar beams allow it to disable and destroy corvettes, and also disable enemy bombers. It also offers fire support with it's researchable fusion missile.

But the Ion Destroyer does seem a bit odd... When I first build one, I assumed to have maybe it's foward torpdo slots replaced with ions... but 4 ion beams (Double barrels, so 8!). Could such a small ship really sustain such firepower?

I'd think that Behgins clumped up the Vaygr's research tree to get it done for now until he can turn his attention from the Hiigarans.

Putting a Carrier back into the starting fleet would be very costly on the crew count. You need all the crew you can use for your initial fleet.

Anyway that's just my :twocents:... Either way, Behgins has renewed many people's interest in Homeworld 2, and put together quite a great mod.

[Sajuuk hear my]

what do the trade containers do; do they just shuttle RU's to cap ships or just put them in a out-of-the-way spot and use the Ru's in them for emergincies?

i personally prefer unit caps put i do like the new system of complex.
anyway a very good mod i'd love to ci 6.0
sujuuk

[Carl]

@Shadow: I think the best trick with the MS guns would be to down-power them initially and add a second upgrade research so that initial fighter attacks actually do something.

The Idea with using the Minigun model as a New Minelayer is that it's guns and armament positions allow it to be better defended than the current one whilst not being so heavily armed as to replace the Gunship Corvette (as the current Minigun does). One of the issues I have with minelayers is the way in which even interceptors can destroy them with ease, it really should take dedicated anti-corvette weaponry to do the job.

Your right about the Warfare frigate, but that is my complaint with it. It's combination of Missiles, Lasers, and EMP mean that it can do the jobs of both the Assault frigate and Heavy Missile Frigate. Other than a few artillery Frigates to help against destroyers, theirs no reason to take any other frigate type IMHO. Add some Missile Corvettes to help kill Strike Craft quicker and you got your entire non-capital class fleet right there.

I agree on the carrier, hence why I suggested increasing the base officer/crew limit slightly to compensate.

My point with the research wasn't that the Vaygr are too clumped, but that the Hiigaran and Vaygr tech trees have lost the uniqueness they had in vanilla.

The defining points where that the Hiigarans had to get multiple different research modules, and had to research ship upgrades individually, (as well as having a few things they had to research to unlock individual weapons on specific ships). The Vaygr on the other hand only had to Buy one module and never had to research individual weapons on available ship classes, they also researched upgrades to ship classes as a group rather than on a ship by ship basis. On the flip side they DID have to research the basic form of every ship class they wanted to build.


My biggest problem with this mod is the way a number of early tech tree units are made totally obsolete by the ships available in the later portion of the tech tree. This problem is particularly bad with the Vaygr where I can outright skip the earlier stuff if I want to. Why have the early units if they are going to be made obsolete??? (Although admittedly their aren’t any do everything ships as I feared, but there are a number of overly effective ones IMHO).