2500 Tau Army, Theme heavy (including basic fluff about new helper race)

[Dimension]

** ** ** **
HQ -> 486
** ** ** **

Shas'o -> 155
-Plasma (16)
-Fusion (12)
-Shield Gen (20)
-hardwired Multitracker (10)
-HW Drone Cont. (2)
-2 Gun Drones (20

Bodyguard: Bonded (10)

Shas'vre -> 98
-Plasma (16)
-Fusion (12)
-Shield Gen (20)
-HW Multi (10)

Shas'vre -> 84
-TL Plasma (24)
-Drone Cont. (0)
-2 Gun Drones (20)

***

Shas'el -> 139
-Plasma (16)
-TL Missile Pack(21)
-HW multi (10)
-HW Drone Cont. (2)
-2 Shield Drones (40)


** ** ** **
Elite -> 409
** ** ** **

XV8 Team, Bonded (10)
Shas'ui -> 112 (Leader)
-Plasma (16)
-MP (14)
-Shield Gen (20)
-HW Multi(10)
-HW Drone Cont.(2)
-2 Gun Drones (20)

2x Shas'ui -> 65
-Plasma (16)
-MP (14)
-Multi (5)

***

XV15 Team, Bonded (10)
Shas'ui -> 57 Leader
-HW Drone Cont. (2)
-2 Gun Drones (20)
3x Shas'ui -> 30


** ** ** **
Troops -> 1057
** ** ** **

12 Firewarriors -> 130
Bonded (10)
Devilfish Transport -> 100
Sensors (5), Multitracker (10), D-Launchers (5)

12 Firewarriors -> 130
Bonded (10)
Devilfish Transport -> 95
Multi (10), D-Launchers (5)

12 Firewarriors -> 130
Bonded (10)
Devilfish Transport -> 95
Multi (10), D-Launchers (5)

12 Gue'vesa -> 84
2 Pulse Carbines (2x6)
Devilfish Transport -> 95
Multi (10), D-Launchers (5)

Slasher Warband -> 198
11 Slashers (wtf are these? explained below)


** ** ** **
Fast Attack -> 216
** ** ** **

6 Gun Drones -> 72

6 Gun Drones -> 72

6 Gun Drones -> 72


** ** ** **
Heavy Support -> 330
** ** ** **

Hammerhead -> 165
Railgun
2x Burst
multi (10), D-Launchers (5)


Hammerhead -> 165
Railgun
2x Burst
multi (10), D-Launchers (5)

__________________________________

2498 Points


this is the force I'm ultimately working up to.

first off, this is a themed army. They hail from a southern colony, which was overrun by a Tyranid splinter fleet. This hunting cadre had to learn the hard way that staying mobile was the only way to survive. the battles eventually led them across another race (the Kade) that was fleeing from the nids and lost its homeworlds to the swarm already. a bargain was struck. in exchange for a military alliance and trade agreements, the Kade were promised planets they would be able to colonize, as well as the protection of the Tau empire.

the kade are a race that was originally created as a warrior race, but their creators have vanished millenia ago. although there are genders, the race is infertile (due to its origin as a weapon), and has not been able to reproduce. the only reason they have survived so long is that after a kade dies, a special bony organ within him grows into a larvae, that feeds upon the dead body (and later anything else it finds), until it becomes gradually more sentient and ultimately grows to be an adult kade once more.

the slasher is more or less the basic trooper, and the last Kade-form that was created. they are of female gender, and are the most savage of all Kade. when they're not fighting enemies, they fight each other in controlled combat.

sometimes rifters command a slasher warband. they are males, and more controlled than slashers.

thus, here are the stats and rules for a slasher warband:

Kade’vesa Slasher Warband (7-21 + 0-3)

Team Leader (up to 1 for every 7 Slashers)
Rifter Caveguard -> 46
WS5 BS0 S4 T4 W2 I7 A2 Ld10 Sv4+
Abilities
Quadruped Locomotion (moves as if cavalry)
Defensive Spines (Unit attacking model suffers S3 hit before attacks are resolved)
Camouflage (6+ Invuln)
Horns/Spikes (Additional Attack at +1s when in assault phase)
Fearful Presence (Enemies attacking unit suffer –1 Ld)
Razorsharp Claws/Fangs (will autowound on 6 to hit, no armor saves allowed)

Slasher -> 18
WS4 BS0 S3 T4 W1 I6 A2 Ld10 Sv5+
Abilities
Quadruped Locomotion (moves like Cavalry)
Camouflage (6+ Invuln)


so what yall think?

basically the biggest weakness is that the troops have an exuberant cost due to the expensive transports. however, i can't really bring myself to forego the transports due to fluff reasons.

furthermore, i suspect that there's not enough firepower to take out tanks. the two hammerheads might not be enough, but they are the only heavy support i'll take for fluff reasons (besides the kade, only skimmers, mounted troops, and jump pack units).

maybe getting some FW shas'ui with markerlights and fitting the devilfishies with seekers is a good idea. dunno.

if I'd have to bring it down to 2000 points, I'd cut one FW squad, one drone squad, and the Kade'vesa. vs marines, chaos etc i'd probably cut the XV15s and leave the drones in (wonderful cheap harassment)

any comments and suggestions?

[Piccolo]

Okay let me see where to being. Do not invent new races for the tau. I know it is tempting but please if you want to play tau, learn how to win with tau instead of trying to create new units.

Could you also try to call items what they are instead of making new names. items on suits are Hard wired not cyb.

also it is BONDING now bonadage and either way it is a gigantic waste of points. It is an investment for losing. If you want to keep your troops in the game buy an Etheral and let him benefit rolls when you want to fail and run away and then get the benefit of his double chance when you recover and turn and fire.

okay now that the rant is over I can start to try and salvage this list from the sad state it is in.

You HQ squad is a nice big fat happy target. your commander is going to be blown apart as quick as possible because you are not going to be able to hide that squad and use them like you should. Get rid of his bodyguards and get rid of those stupid drones. Under the new majority armor and toughness rules they are more of a liability and cost than any form of benefit. Drop the shield generators form your suits as well, they shouldn't be getting shot so don't waste the space on a save. Twin-link one of his weapons to get more bang for your buck, missile pods and plasma are the best choices here.

If you want alot of suits, this goes for your elites as well, take 2 HQ Shas'el and then 2 more team leader Elites let them all work as individuals and get the most from the cover on the board. Making large sqauds takes away from what they are best at, hit and run.

For your stealth team NEVER take a leader or any upgrades. Jsut take 4-6 normal suits, I run squads of 5 and they do a great job.

Now for your troop slots, this will need some work.
First off putting targetting array on a devilfish is a complete waste, buying 1 BS for a transport with only 1 weapon is a complete waste. The attached drones get no benefit from it and spending 10 points to make 1 burst cannon better is worthless. Drop the sensors on the 1st fish as well, never gonna be worth it.

After you drop all the bonding pay for Shas'ui, getting Ld 8 is more important now than ever with the v4 rules for shooting.

Get rid of your human aux unit. their weapon is far inferior to the fire warriors weapon. Go with your strengths.

If you want a good counter attack force get some Kroot, infiltrate is very common in v4 and their cover ability and rapid fire weapons make them alot better than the junk you are trying to create. A 10-14 man squad should be perfect.

For your fast attack choices you are skipping an option that would really fit the theme ytou want, but we will get to that in a minute.

Make your drone sqauds 8 drones ALWAYS. As it is once you drop 2 drones your Ld goes to hell and they will not work as a speed bump since htey won't be staying on the board.

Now get yourself a nice big 8 man team of pathfinders. Their advance move and the new rules concerning the markerlights make them a great option. Give them a Shas'ui and nothing else. Put 4-8 seeker missles on your D-fish, put a few on a squad that will be far away from the pathfinders so that itcan help line up some good angels for side and rear armor removal.

I am happy to see that your heavy support choices are put together decently. Add multi-trackers so that the heads can move over 6" every turn and fire that big gun, this makes them almost impossibe to take down if used correctly. I am also a big fan of the D-pod since it usually buys 1 of your hammerheads 1 turn early in the game when opponents think they are in range and end up being short after they declared their shooting.

[Ramrod]

lol, piccolo's advice makes me be t3h chuckl1ng on3. the one thing i'll give him is the multitracker on hammerhead comment.

piccolo, the couple of word nitpicks you have are because thats what the words in the codex translate into english from german. and besides, what the fuck is the difference between cybernetic and hard-wired? i'll call it a buttplug blacksun filter if i fucking want to, and you can't stop me.

i am now convinced piccolo is a power gamer playing to win not to enjoy himself.

dimmy, your themed army is cooler than mine, damn youuuuu! i'll post mine sometime this week, i just need to redistribute wargear. i find that multitrackers' jobs are only useful sometimes, and not for every unit :(.

btw, can your shas'el have two hard-wired systems? if he can, damn i missed a very important piece of information :banghead:.

(psst, pics of slashers! they sound badass).

[Piccolo]

Your crisis suit HQs can have all the hard wired gear they want, your shas'ui, stealth leaders and crisis suit team leaders can only get 1 hard wired item.

I apologize for nit-picking on the grammer if that is what the words translate into. Not something I was aware of and for that I will bite my tongue. I only made the point becuase when trying to help someone work on a list it is nice if it is easy to browse over it and recognize what everyhting is.

I am far from a power gamer but those I normally play with do not build armies with alot of weak points. So any army I am working on has to get ride of any items that really don't help for what they cost. With tau it is pretty straight forward what items ae worth it after a bit of trial and error.

[Dimension]

ok. first off: sorry for the wordings, i had to translate and guess the english names most of the time. for instance: i did not mean to boost Devilfish BS, but have them move and fire like a fast vehicle. thats multitracker then i presume.

the reason behind the smallish 6 drone teams is that i wanted to force decisions out of the enemy. either ignore a smallish drone squad, or overkill, by allocating fire from an entire unit into it. thats the idea anyways, maybe its BS.

furthermore, i don't know if its legal, but i've not seen that it is not allowed for detached drones (from devilfish transports) to break squad consistency. what i planned to do was flooding the board with tiny 2-drone teams to annoy the fuck out of an enemy commander. either he seriously overkills by allocating to the miniature squad, or he tolerates losing a couple of troops every turn.

why invest in shas'uis for my firewarrior squads? they already have Ld8, so what would the shas'ui give me (if not in conjunction with an ethereal). I'd really like to know, because i think a shas'ui would be so much more fluffy, but right now the only advantage would be that he can take hardwired wargear.

about the kade: well, going by your reasoning I'd not field kroot either. its one thing to say kroot are better because of their infiltration and guns (and cheapness). its another thing to say i can't use self-created units (creature feature is awesome), because that will for some reason tell the enemy that i suck.

well, i already have good shooters, and wanted some decent CC abilities. with no save at all or only a 6+ save, kroot suck the big one, if i want a true CC unit. they're good for counter attacking and holding a flank, but they would really not add to my playstyle. I HAVE NO FIRING LINE. my tau will be constantly either advancing on foot, or relocating via their transport.

slashers are fast, QUITE a deal more survivable than kroot, and true CC units. thats what i want. they're not cheap, but wtf, other armies field expensive units too. i want them in the enemies face as soon as possible, while the fire warriors keep themselves on the move, either firing or leading enemy CC troops around the map. god i'm gonna need a big table for this to work

about the HQ and elite: yeah they're a big target, but the enemy must first chew through those gun drones before he can take out the bodyguards and shas'o. that group is supposed to get over to the other side of the board (preferrably via deepstrike) and take out tanks and expensive slow units such as terminators.

the Shas'el will either operate alone, or in conjunction with the crisis team. he will stay at mid-long range and shoot at advancing troops and transports.

I'm thinking of ditching the gue'vesa and one drone team, in favor of getting the remaining drones up to 8, and fielding another all-purpose crisis team effect at 30-24" range.

pathfinders might be nice, but to tell the truth, I'm sort of in love with drones. so mobile, and somewhat underestimated. they can also help protect a lone suit by joining up with him.

Roddy: i am actually a long ways away from fielding a tau force. i have 4 firewarriors, 4 drones and a suit so far (cheapish from ebay). next up is an army expansion set and a transport w/ troops box. however i kinda wanted to get the hang of painting first.

about the slashers: what i plan to do is modify Termagaunts or Hormagaunts. they'll get helmets in somewhat similar style to chaos warriors of WH FB. only with four eyeslots except two. either I'll mod those helmets with green stuff, or i'll make them out of plasticard (if i can bend it the right way).

about piccolo: i don't think he is necessarily powergameing, i just think he plays tau vastly different. he probably bases his army around a solid fireline of troops, with pathfinders marking targets for seekers, hammerheads and broadsides. all his crisis suits are probably tooled to take out troops, tough troops and transports at maximum possible range. this is illustrated by the way he endorses an ethereal. with his playstyle, the ethereal is relatively safe, as he hides in a bunnyhole somewhere behind the fireline or something ;)

his advice is consistent and all, it just doesn't always apply to the tactics i wanna use. well, except for the pathfinders.

but my damn rulebook hasen't even arrived yet, so I'm still in the dark about some rules and will most likely rework this list anyways.

[Ramrod]

i agree with your "no firing line." battles between stationary armies end up being a competition for who can outshoot who. cool, versatile, MOBILE tactics are much more fun, even if you lose.

after all, a game of 40k is still a game, whether you win or not. "winning" is not a hobby.

[Piccolo]

Your firewarriors only have Ld7 if they don't have a a Shas'ui.

Yes the drones can leave a devilfish and they form a 2 drone squad. Also note that if the devilfish is destroyed while they are on board they test just like anyone else rideing inside the transport to see if they can get out alive.

Don't doubt the speed or attacked ability of a moderately sized kroot squad. They put alot of attacks at your opponents.

remember also that if your are playing with a custom unit it is only usable if your opponent agrees to let you use them. If they say no to your Kade you are left hanging, if you have kroot they have no say in the matter.

as for the big hq, your opponent doesn't have to chew through all the drones to take out the suits, just half of them, thanks to the new majority save and majority toughness rules. Add to that the fact that losing drones counts against panic tests, so right about the time you start to lose suits they may already be running and tau leadership without an etheral is not worht betting on.

Also there is no reason for a command model to ever join a unit of drones, all he has to do is get close enough and if he is an IC he is immune from being targeted. If he is in his own large unit then he can't hide near another unit and it can't join his. The new targetting rules make command squads even worse than in v4, stick with being an independent character.

Double Post

also about how I play tau, I do not go with a solid fire line of troops, I play a very mobile tau army with a good mix of units and absolutly no crisis suits or broadsides.

[Dimension]

intriguing. so how do you keep the ethereal safe? is he perma-joined with a unit that you keep out of trouble or something? or are you just not as scared of the price of defeat as i am :D

about Ld: you SURE you're not confusing that with Kroot? they have Ld 7 unless when with a shaper, who boosts it up to 8. my Codex states regular Ld of Shas'las at 8. <- this is BS. managed to read over it 2 times.

about drones: i know they can detach from the devilfish, but can they actually roam about by themselves? they don't need to test if the 'fish is destroyed if they are detached.

another thing: i think the "majority save, majority toughness" does actually not apply to drones that are accompanying an independent character (or crisis group for that matter), because they are wargear(like attack squigs, familiars etc). this is consistent with the fact that a) drones are the first to fall and b) you can allocate any hits on the squad the way you want.

ok, shas'ui improve leadership. new list coming up! (watch this space)

[Piccolo]

drones that leave a fish are no longer part of the fish and as such no longer care about the fish and it doesn't care about them.

and yes crisis suits and drones apply both to the armor/toughness rules and to the panic tests, read the v4 FAQ and the tau codex, it is pretty clearly stated. It specifically states in the faq that the majority rules apply to drones. There is a promised fix to this but who knows how long till GW gets around to it and even then if it will be worth it. The drones lost all their benefit unless you have a 2 to 1 ratio on your drones

[Dimension]

damn. ah well, on the upside i have now 4x 2 drone teams flying about, annoying the fuck out of the enemy :D

NEW LIST:

** ** ** **
HQ -> 230
** ** ** **

Shas'o -> 133
-Plasma (16)
-Fusion (12)
-Shield Gen (20)
-hardwired Multitracker (10)

Shas'el -> 97
-Plasma (16)
-TL Missile Pack(21)
-HW multi (10)


** ** ** **
Elite -> 594
** ** ** **

XV8 Team, Bonded (10)
3x Shas'ui -> 65
-Plasma (16)
-MP (14)
-Multi (5)

XV8 Team, Bonded (10)
3x Shas'ui -> 63
-Plasma (16)
-Fusion (12)
-Multi (5)


XV15 Team, Bonded (10)
6x Shas'ui -> 30


** ** ** **
Troops -> 913
** ** ** **

12 Firewarriors -> 150
Bonded (10)
Shas’ui (10)
Markerlight (10)
Devilfish Transport -> 95
D-Launchers (5)
Seeker Missile (10)

12 Firewarriors -> 140
Bonded (10)
Shas’ui (10)
Devilfish Transport -> 95
D-Launchers (5)
Seeker (10)

12 Firewarriors -> 140
Bonded (10)
Shas’ui (10)
Devilfish Transport -> 95
D-Launchers (5)
Seeker (10)

Slasher Warband -> 198
11 Slashers


** ** ** **
Fast Attack -> 393
** ** ** **

8 Gun Drones -> 96

8 Gun Drones -> 96

8 Pathfinders -> 96
Devilfish Transport -> 105
D-Launchers (5)
2x Seeker (20)


** ** ** **
Heavy Support -> 370
** ** ** **

Hammerhead -> 185
Railgun
2x Burst
multi (10), D-Launchers (5)
2x Seeker (20)

Hammerhead -> 185
Railgun
2x Burst
multi (10), D-Launchers (5)
2x Seeker (20)

_______________________
2500

much more elite heavy, less troops, more fast attack, and the HQ is about half the price.

*edit* took out Devilfish multis. added 1 more seeker to both hammerheads, the pathfinder devilfish, and the third firewarrior devilfish.

[Piccolo]

well it is getting better but lets see if we can't keep the improvements coming.

Drop the multi trackers from your fish, they only have 1 weapon and it isn't worth spending those points on.

I see 5 seekers which is good but you need to make sure you can call them in when you need them. Put no less than 3 on your pathfinders fish With the deployment order in many of the v4 missions you want those seekers on the board early when they might be your heaviest weapon, this works as a great suprise when your opponent doesn't worry about cover because they don't think you have anything big on the table.

Ditch the shield generator on your Shas'O, he shouldn't be getting shot at, use the hop move and cover. Use the hardpoint to twin link one of those weapons.

[Dimension]

i'd hesitate to take the shield gen off the Shas'o. first off, not all tables are riddled with cover. furthermore, this particular suit will be mucking about deep in enemy territory to try and take out enemy armor such as predators, fire prisms, monoliths or stationary land raiders. this means he will have to bypass troops, and might end up in a spot where he won't be in cover in order to get at his target. and there ARE weapons out there that ignore cover.

furthermore, if you're only going to TL one of his weapons, it makes even less sense to me. the guy has BS5, twinlinking something won't make THAT much of a big difference, and accomplish nothing but making him a bigger fire target (ooh, loads of firepower and only an armor save. mwahahaha). without his shield gen, he is about as survivable as a marine.

3 seekers on the pathfinder devilfish? isn't that a bit risky? frankly i don't expect the pathfinder devilfish to last long enough to fire all three.

[Piccolo]

the math on seekers is pretty trickey, it has been discussed quite well on some other 40k boards. With a team of 8 pathfinders marking, they will get 4 hits on average per turn. That means you have that many chances to accomplaish what you want from their seekers that turn. If are trying to drop lets say a basilishk you might be happy with any result from weapon destroyed all the way up to vehicle destroyed. Now you call in seekers untill you get the result you want. If the first seeker does all you want then you can stop, if not you need to keep shooting. If you are going after a harder target such as a Leman Russ or a Predator it will probably take more seekers to get the job done. Just remember what each target needs to have done to it to accoplish your goal. If you can getthe results you want quick then the d-fish should be around a while since those targets are not going after it. The key is to use the free advance move the pathfinders get to move up and disembark them into cover while the d-fish stays hiddden from enemy shooting if they have the first turn. You will be suprised how quickly you can remove seekers form vehicles that might be targeted. I run 2 units of 8 pathfinders in my army and a total of 10 seeker missiles. I am usually able to dump all my missiles by turn 3 at the latest.