Do you use Whirlwinds?

[Sauron]

So far I have only used Whirlwinds in the SP campaign, where I've found them to be less useful than other units - dreadnoughts and SM's with missile launchers seem to be better at both infantry annihilation and building destruction.

The question is, do any of you find a real use for them in skirmish or multiplayer? In most RTS games I use the artillery/siege weapons to break down fortified positions, but from what I have seen so far DoW is a pretty mobile game and relies more on troop/vehicle strength to win the day. Sure, Whirlwinds can repeatedly knock down infantry (since they don;t kill them very quickly), but I'd rather kill 'em than knock 'em down! :rip:

Are there strategies/uses I haven't thought of?

[NapalmEnema]

Are there strategies/uses I haven't thought of?


Send some cloaked scouts into their base and you can pound it to goo from afar. That same scout squad can later allow you to deep strike/drop pod all manner of doom directly into their base... if the game lasts that long.

And breaking squads is quite valuable all by itself, as is tossing around heavy weapon squads... just try not to blast your own squads... once a targetted squad enters CC with one of your own, the 'q' button is your friend (cancel's the current action).

[Sauron]

Send some cloaked scouts into their base and you can pound it to goo from afar. That same scout squad can later allow you to deep strike/drop pod all manner of doom directly into their base... if the game lasts that long.


Thanks for the reply NapalmEnema (great name!) - all of the infiltration tactics I've been coming up with have centered around my sneaky Chaos Marines - I'll give this a try.

I guess the chaos of battles also scares me in the use of Whirlwinds - they're pretty innacurate so they don't seem to have a place in the normal order of battle unless you are specifically using said infiltration tactic

[Magus]

In a mass line battle, use WW's on Rocket and Heavy Bolter squads (or Reapers). If they get hit once, they take insane morale damage and have to get up and set up their weapons again. Also, if you can just blast the field in front of you as they're advancing (works better w/choke points) it hurts as they move in. If they are retreating, begin lobbing rockets behind them.

Most important thing about them: Hit cover. Hard.

Keep in mind though the spectacular explosions and body launchings arent actually doing that much damage, just cutting the damage they can inflict by an insane factor. So make sure you have stuff to kill them in addition to your artillery support.

Edit: I would personally reccommend not actually ordering an attack, but a strike-ground. That way you dont have to worry about the artillery tracking the squad into the middle of your lines.

[Sauron]

Edit: I would personally reccommend not actually ordering an attack, but a strike-ground. That way you dont have to worry about the artillery tracking the squad into the middle of your lines.

Good point - using them defensively sounds more up my alley, and firing at choke points (rather than units) to create craters/reduce enemy defense seems like a great defense idea.

I also tend to shy away from them on the offense because I tend to build steam and move quickly on the attack - I rarely want to look back for anything other than building new units much less carefully planning a barrage. Thanks for the tip Magus.

[Negator]

3 whirlwinds are much more usefull in a big battle than 3 dreads would ever be, artillery simply shuts down opposing infantry which allows your infantry to rip them to tiny pieces and since they are behind your lines your opponent can't do much to destroy them or he leaves his defence wide open and you can go make a bbq of his base.

[HotCod]

I love them... if i'm attacking a base, i pound it with whirlwinds first, most players get bated out by that (they don't do all that much damge but there annoing as hell) and when they have a hevely defended point, bring them out to engage on your tearms is a god send... also if you target just behind the mainl line of CC you can shut down any range squads there useing (being thorwn about means they can't shoot) and so your can cut up the other guys squads that are in cc... it also keeps hevey weponds guys form rapeing any dreads you have as quickly as they might... and makes its hard to bring in any units that don't have there morale broke by the time they get to the fighting...

again useing them just depends on what you need... its what makes SM good, they can bring up what ever they need to deal with what ever there trying to beat

[NapalmEnema]

When using Whirlwinds at a choke point, I'm going to have to try firing them off individually, rather than all at once. I'd imagine that it's be harder to avoid a constant peppering than it would be to avoid the occasional volley.

[Apoc]

I prefer scouts for breaking morale, but WW can be quite handy for taking out the enemy's forward LP and surronding turrets.

That action alone can often make an enemy rush forward an attack, as he knows one is coming, which can work to your advantage.

[cadianUK]

a couple of whirlwinds in combination with a few dreads can mop up the enemy infantry nice and easy if used properly, the WWs can bombard the men who arent in combat to soften them up a bit for the dreads to come in for the kill.

[Entropius]

Although they don't do the massive damage that other games' artillery can do, their range is even more of an asset in DoW.

Nobody's mentioned yet that they can indeed break down fortified positions (with turrets etc)--it just takes a while. In a game with slow infantry and weapon set-up times, there's great value in sitting back and shelling enemy LP's/gens/turret-farms/whatever, forcing your opponent to come out and play. Then they have to wade through your artillery fire, get into range of your infantry, get their weapons set up, and only then start shooting at you.

Whirlies are crazy good.

[Dagg]

WH takes a little a micro to be effectiv.I like to pull back Commander from melee , shoot right in the middle and then rush in to do some more melee.repeat.
snipers behind the WH with a flamers infront works like a charm to send back enemy units runing in fear.
they are also a great at supporting your turrets if you dont have missile upg already.

[PHoenix_UK]

Suppresive fire makes them an incredible asset, given their incredible range. Dropping shells on an LP that you KNOW the enemy are going after is a great way of irritating the hell out of them... Especially as their poor constructor will keep getting knocked flat. If you can get one they already own in range its even better.

On an offensive push they're just as good, as your line moves forward, your whirlwinds can shell the hell out of the enemies base entrance (if theirs a narrow one) or just drop rounds into their base if they pull their squads back. Suppresion is the key, and whirlwinds are the masters.

To my mind once you have a couple, you should have no excuse for them to not be firing. Keep in mind what your opponent is trying to achieve. If its a mission critical, target it and let the whirlwind hammer the point... it doesn't have to kill anything, it just has to keep them panicked enough to stay away from it. If your opponent favours a particular path for his advance, then just have one or two shelling that area constantly. Even if you can't see into the area because of shroud, he'll be pulling troops away from it. As soon as he comes in from another direction, you shift your target.

Armies with large squads such as eldar and orks really suffer from suppresive fire, as its their numbers that win them the game... but if half their troops are in the air or flat on their arse the rest are that much weaker.

Did i mention split fire? If you've two or three, have them target as wide an area as possible. Given the scatter of their shots, your opponent will be dodging like crazy to keep out from under the buggers. Targetting as a group is great for saturating a small area, but is only really required if you have a specific target in mind (closely grouped buildings or a huge mob of orks).

They rock.

[Dooks Dizzo]

They do take a bit of micro but you can do nasty things with them.

I like targeting 3 or 4 right behind and Ork mobs that is attacking. If they break and try to run they get hammered. Also a stray round can break them up if they are getting an advantage.

I am personally happy that most SM players don't use them effectively. Also as soon as I start getting hit by them I target several units to take it out. Most people lose 1 or 2 and stop building them.

Always use them to shape the battle field to your liking. Especailly good for knocking Reapers/Rocket teams out of heavy cover right before a charge.

You do need to keep your eyes on them constantly however.

[PHoenix_UK]

God yes, they need to be effectively micro'd, but i consider that a minor irritation given the benefits.

Also, always remember that if your enemy can't SEE whats hitting him, he can't attack it MUAHAHAHAHAHA... um... sorry, rather chaotic laugh... Praise the Emp an all that.

[Double-Veteran]

I love whirlwinds - my strat is to infiltrate some scouts/skulls into the enemy's base - then pound it with whirlies for ages - then use the good old 'Six-Dreadnought drop-pod' technique right in the centre of their base

[ghostmaker77]

lets be blunt! Whirlwinds are as duff a unit as the Rhino. the lack of armour means that it has to be kept behind an assault, not spearheading it like its enemy counterpart Leman Russes or Defilers. (a big disadvantage!) nine times out of ten, it's as much a threat to your forces as your enemy. is it really worth the vehicle slot you could use for a Predator? if you want artillery, the best bet is your Orbital Bombardment!

roll on some bright fruit modding up a Vindicator!

[SoundWave]

you dont seem to understand that its artillery and not a main battle tank. It has a great range so it can stay out of the battle and it should always be behind your forces anyways setting up to shoot. also it really should not be used to shoot infantry as its ARTILLERY so dont waste it shooting near your own guys. take out defensive structures, or if your forces are already that far start goin for the key buildings. the Pred is just awesome anti-armor.

[sverkuijlen200]

Actually 1 or 2 whirlies can really make an opponent shit his pants.

Just see it this way, Whirlies cause morale damage but not only with the targetted troops.
You're enemy often panics and tries to take them out in a hasty unplanned attack and then it's easy killing.
Psycho warfare, thats what whirlies are for.(that and tossing infantery outof cover)

[Mossa]

They eat your enemy troops moral.

[Nameless]

I love artillery (RTCW:ET and DC mortar whoring reporting in!) and I love it even more when it's mobile, powerful, and causes my enemies to flee in terror before it's awesome might all of which the whirlwind dose.

Fuck Khaine, Artillery is the god of war! Disrespect it at your own peril!

But seriously, it has many uses most of which have already been listed and as part of your combined arms force can be a very potent and battle winning element.

[D2F]

I haven't read anything that is wrong so far.

But i would like to elaborate the more traditional approach to artillery, that is possible to applicate in DoW:

Artillery can be used for 3 main purposes:


Suppression

Channeling

Siege


Let me explain them in detail:

Suppression

Spression is the means to demoralize the opponent. Continual harassment by artillery fire breaks morale and destroys the fighting spirit of your opponent. In DoW the morale system and the extraordinary high Morale Damage of artillery serve that purpose excellently.

Shelling large masses of intantry can render them almost useless (scattered, morale broken, unable to move or coordinate in any reasonable manner...)

This is also the most applied Form of artillery use in DoW.


Siege

Siege is the means of destryoing or disabling static defenses (read: trenches, bunkers, emplacements...)

In DoW this is easy to accomplish. Set the Artillery to fire on a spot occupied by a hostile building and let them fire. They may be inacurate, but they will do their job after a while.

While this may be feasible, it is slow.


Channeling

This form of artillery use is seen rarely in DoW but for no understandable reason.

Channeling is the means to deny your opponent certain routes of approach. By shelling specific regions (preferrably chokepoints), you can deny your opponent acces, therby forcing him down another route, a route you planned him to use.

In DoW you may simply walk your infantry through a screen of artillery fire, but they will most likely leave it broken. Thus they become easy cannon fodder for ant-infantry units placed alongside your artillery.

Used effectively, this strategy can be used to win a battle with only a margin of losses.

You should try out channeling with whirlwinds. It takes some time to get used to, but once you know how to do it you will be surprised by it's effectiveness. Those who already use it, know what i am talking about.

Alos: not every map is meant for channeling. It will rarely if ever work on an open terrain, but it works just perfect on city and canyon maps.

Have fun

D2F

[Spliffacus]

lol muhahahahahahahaha i agree nothing like imagineing your opponent pulling his hair out shouting if i get my beeep beep beeeping hands on those beep beep beep ing whirlwinds lol

[n0z3k1ll3r]

Channeling

This form of artillery use is seen rarely in DoW but for no understandable reason.

Channeling is the means to deny your opponent certain routes of approach. By shelling specific regions (preferrably chokepoints), you can deny your opponent acces, therby forcing him down another route, a route you planned him to use.

In DoW you may simply walk your infantry through a screen of artillery fire, but they will most likely leave it broken. Thus they become easy cannon fodder for ant-infantry units placed alongside your artillery.

Used effectively, this strategy can be used to win a battle with only a margin of losses.

You should try out channeling with whirlwinds. It takes some time to get used to, but once you know how to do it you will be surprised by it's effectiveness. Those who already use it, know what i am talking about.


Correct me if i'm wrong, but you'd need a lot of Arty to do that. In most real wars Artillery is employed en masse in a manner that cannot be replicated in DoW. Hence it seems almost impossible without impeccable timing.

[Augustus]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but you'd need a lot of Arty to do that. In most real wars Artillery is employed en masse in a manner that cannot be replicated in DoW. Hence it seems almost impossible without impeccable timing.


Not really - even a single artilery covering a choke will break most squads trying to break through. 2 whilrlwinds will make pretty damn sure nothing gets through unbroken, and 3-5 of them can actively deny pretty big areas.

Its tirkcy to use this method though because the resources spent on whilrwinds have not been spent on other vehicles. This means that you really do need to use for normal shalling if you sucessfully channeled the enemy the way you wanted him to go. So unless you find a nice central spot for them, its tricky to pull this off.

[bigjangin]

whirlwinds can turn the tide of a battle, especially if you your enemy has a lot of infantry. WW are not to be used against any kind of vehicle. They have great range, that way they can sit behind your main force without dying. I usually only build one or two, I find more is not needed and id be better off with more dreads. When an enemy is attacking you, start shelling the ground beneath his main force, making sure not to hit your own troops. He will be torn apart, or will have to send vehicles in. If you are attacking an entrenched position, have your one or two WW shell his main group of troops. Make him come to you, or make him retreat. Most likely he will come forward. Concentrate on trying to hit AWAY from your troops.

[LemannRuss]

Yeah I can't say anything bad about whirlwinds. In my experience the amount of micro required is small, and you can effectively use them like a mobile mine fields. Mine fields seriously rock since although the damage is pretty small, the "knockaround" effect stops troops in their tracks. Add to that the high morale damage. Anything that does morale damage is a must for SMs since it exploits one of the SMs chief advantages, which is morale. The more you can exploit the fact that SMs have higher base morale than Orks or Eldar, and have the sergeant rally ability (Chaos doesn't), then the better you will do.

[ThreshLly]

Okay I have not done any PvP skirmish yet, but I went through the entire campaign at hard and have played the comp in skirmish a fair amount.

I credit the Whirlwind with my success on many of the mission. Towards the end of the campaign, my standard vehicle load out was one DD, 2 Predators and 6 WW. I would group the WW is 2 groups of three. Early on I used the WW to protect approaches. By the time things made it to my SM and Turrets they were badly shaken up. Nothing like wathing an Obliterator tossed around like a rag doll.

When I shifted from defense to offence the WW was always right there ready to soften the targets up. I actually end up using very little CC except at the very begining (Okay once for giggles I made an Assualt Terminator squad and attached my FC to it). With the WW breaking the forces up on the way in I ended up with mostly ranged fighting.

Not sure if it will work as well in PvP but I swear by them in PvC and the campaign.

<<Edit>>
Okay I have been playing on Deadman's Crossing on Harder difficulty trying to see if I should even try and go head to head against real peopl.

After several times in a row of just getting owned by the Orcs I stumbled onto a pretty much win everytime solution. As soon as I finished my Machine Cult I queued up a Whirlwind out of habit from the campaign. Well I parked it behind the berm and started shelling the CP in the center of the map.

An boom I won the match, at least on this map the WW was the trick as it's a choke point and the orcs either get broken up trying to take the CP or trying to get to my troops to attack. So with the threat of a Take and Hold victory taken away I was able to turtle down, build a major strike force and move out.

I was able to repeat this several times, either winning a Take an Hold or wiping out the Orcs totally.

WW is your friend when used correctly..