The Emperor's (reluctant) wrath

[Yo-jim-bo]

Man, if the Emperor were alive (properly) today he'd learn from his mistakes in indulging the word bearers, thousands sons etc in their oddities.
My guess is he'd just exterminate all the chapters that showed the slightest sign of deviation from his original designs(Blood Angels, Space Wolves etc.) and start over again.
Clearly the great space marine experiment was a failure, and allowing such obvioulsy corrupted specimans to survive would be an unacceptable risk.
The interesting question would be whether or not the marines would put up a fight. I mean if Cypher or the sensai or whoever restored the Emperor, would they (or anyone) be able to be sure it was really him and not just some chaos trick?
BTW I know a lot of people are going to be horrified by what I suggested, but I play Blood Angels and if I was the Emperor
I wouldn't trust 'em as far as I could throw them (which would actually be quite a distance if you think about it but anyway...)
Even if they didn't fall to chaos, the risk of them degenerating too far and one day killing someone important in their bloodlust would be too great.

[chocolate]

Umm... the thing is, the Emperor didn't indulge the Thousand Sons, Word Bearers, etc. He punished them stupidly, causing the betrayal and his current state of living death.

[Yo-jim-bo]

Umm... the thing is, the Emperor didn't indulge the Thousand Sons, Word Bearers, etc. He punished them stupidly, causing the betrayal and his current state of living death.

fair point, but the question remains-would he react in the same way on seeing the current state of the blood angels, dark angels et al? I'm not saying it would be the right thing to do, but the poor guy's been burnt before, he's gonna be wary of any kind of deviancy

[Dimension]

dark angels aren't really heretical, they're just sortof doing their own thing and have that famous dark secret noone's supposed to know.

dunno what he'd do with the BA's.

[Yo-jim-bo]

And what is their dark secret? Heresy, that's what! This is an Imperium that wipes out entire planets, childrenand other innocents included, for their collective misdeeds. Similarly, the DA's should have all commited seppuku once Luther was defeated, and informed the rest of the chapters of what happened so they could hunt the fallen. For people who place so much faith in the (obvious) power of genetics, they seem remarkably confident that they won't 'falter' again....

[The Collector]

You get fluff of a whole planet being depopulated after exposure to Chaos-Armageddon. Every surviving man, woman and child was put in a slave camp to die. Since there weren't any men, women and children left after Caliban's destruction, all that's left is to punish those that went Heretic. But, they were all sucked into the Warp.

I don't think the Imperium eliminated every Steel Legion across the galaxy after the First Battle of Armageddon.

[Jorghan]

It would be kind of silly to brand the loyalist space marine chapters traitors now, after 10,000 years of NOT falling to chaos. A lot of the chapters may have "strange" practices, but they do it all in the name of the Emperor and are loyal, in their own way. If the Emperor returned they would still be loyal, and he would be able to turn them back on the right path.

[Dimension]

yeah. however, i do kinda nod to some of the suggestions made earlier. the emp may be an enigmatic and intelligent leader, but he REALLY hasn't made only good calls. in fact, the whole horus heresy was more or less a constant screw-up in my eyes. he made at least 2 chapters turn on him by his own fault. he let himself get lured in an obvious trap despite the fact the wuffs and robes were days or hours away. his denial of reality when it came to the topic of horus is ridiculously stupid.

dunno. emp might well be blind enough to excommunicate the chapters in question.

[Dante]

i dont think he would go as far as making the now loyal ones traitors... i mean...that would mean that the imperium would have to rely on the imperial guard!!!!!!

but he isn't the most infallible of men...alogn with thos things said uptop, he also ignored eldard's warning...because he was a lanky eldar...

tsk tsk tsk.

[Captain Stern]

his denial of reality when it came to the topic of horus is ridiculously stupid.
In fact, to take Horus' challenge was the only thing that the Emperor could do.
First, because he is a man of honour.^^
Second: Just imagine what would have happened if the Emperor would had hide himself into his palace, waiting for the SW and the DA to kick the Chaos forces out of Terra. I really don't think that Horus would had choose Harakiri in this case. He and his legions would retreat into the Eye of Terror, where Horus possibly would become a demon prince, the mightiest one ever existed. And what then? With the fanatic heretics and rebels stil on his side, the rule over the galaxy still near enough to grab it, he would had return to Terra and had crushed the Emperor and any of his servants. Because not even the Emperor would have been a match for a daemonic Horus. So, Chaos' victory would have been complete.
You see, it was a wise choice of the Emperor to sacrifice himself for mankind.

You might excuse any orthographic mistakes of mine, my Englisch isn't that good.

[Yo-jim-bo]

In fact, to take Horus' challenge was the only thing that the Emperor could do.
First, because he is a man of honour.^^
Second: Just imagine what would have happened if the Emperor would had hide himself into his palace, waiting for the SW and the DA to kick the Chaos forces out of Terra. I really don't think that Horus would had choose Harakiri in this case. He and his legions would retreat into the Eye of Terror, where Horus possibly would become a demon prince, the mightiest one ever existed. And what then? With the fanatic heretics and rebels stil on his side, the rule over the galaxy still near enough to grab it, he would had return to Terra and had crushed the Emperor and any of his servants. Because not even the Emperor would have been a match for a daemonic Horus. So, Chaos' victory would have been complete.
You see, it was a wise choice of the Emperor to sacrifice himself for mankind.

You might excuse any orthographic mistakes of mine, my Englisch isn't that good.

Em...I think what he ment is the Emperor's inital refusal to face the fact that Horus had fallen. After Horus wiped out that planet (forget its name) the Emperor locked himself away from his advisors for months rather than face the truth.
It's mistakes like this that make me think he wouldn't take any chances with 'the current 'wild' chapters. Certainly he'd bring the likes of the ellechiessy and the inquisition to heel pretty firmly. Infact, the entire Imperial governement and its institutions would probably collapse if the Emperor was restored. How ironic....

[Dimension]

i actually sort of meant both :D

man of honour? honour should NEVER rise over reason, especially when you happen to have responsibility of COUNTLESS lives.

if the emperor would have not faced horus in his trap, there's two possibilities.
a) horus sticks around and tries to invade the palace. i personally think if horus would have wanted to avoid the SW and DA, he would have left earlier. if he even knew they were coming, in which case he would have stuck around. in either case, he'd be doomed, as the battle for earth had no momentum. for the most part it was a stalemate, that would have of course been won by chaos in time, but not before 4 loyal legions were upon him. game over.

b) horus legs it. this would equal defeat, as he has lost more troops than the emperor, without actually being able to kill him. of course he would have fled into the eye of terror, but he might have not become a daemon prince. ever wonder why abaddon never chose to become one? there are disadvantages to it, for instance you can't exist in the materium as easily unless i'm mistaken. after such a shaming defeat, it would have been debatable if horus would have still had the blessing of the chaos gods the way he had during the heresy.

also, most likely he would have not managed to keep the chaos forces coherent. they'd have scattered just like they have scattered after horus death. abaddon hates horus and thinks he is weak. i bet my pants he is not the only one thinking so after the failed attack on terra.

furthermore, the only reason why horus even got to terra and managed an invasion was due to the fact that only 3 space marine chapters were on earth, with 4 space marine chapters, with exceptional leaders never actually made it to the fight. the salamanders were way off, and lost half their legion when they attempted long ass warp jumps, only to arrive late. the DA and SW were off as well, after being held up by heretical planetary governments or something. the biggest and most sucessful spacemarine chapter at the time, the ultramarines were deep in the galactic south, and also did not make it to the fight in time. still managed to beat up chaos reinforcements en route to terra though.

chaos on the other hand, had most likely all or most of their forces focused onto earth. yet they still didn't manage to grind down the blood angels, imperial fists and white scars fast enough. despite the fact it could not have gotten much easier than this. horus never would have had an equally good opportunity after his defeat at terra. the imperium probably would have counterattacked with even more strength, would the emperor have survived.

[Coey]

The SW and DA were apparently only a day away when Horus lowered his shields, even with Horus leading the assault himself it would take about 2 weeks to finally win. But the Emperor had no idea about that. Faced with the choice of ending the seige quickly, or losing many more men to try and hold back the endless tide, I'd say he made the right choice.

It was a gamble, and it payed off.

[ninjin]

If the emperor returned, there would be no question about him viewing the current chapters as heretical or not. The Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves are all First Founding chapters, and the fact that they still exist and havent turned to heresy would mean that they would still be respected as loyal legions.

[Battlinard]

The Emperor made one mistake and one mistake only.

Ever.

It was because he was human. Yes, immortal, but human. With all the qualities and flaws a human has.

That mistake was failing to destroy Horus the moment he entered his presence in the Battle Barge.

It is understandable, and it is why the Imperium of Man is an Imperium of Man.

There is a lesson in that for every man, woman and child in the 40K universe. If your son has nasty spidey things etched into his body and is marked with the burning signs of four gods of chaos, and if his brother, your son, the Beautiful Winged Angel of Blood lies dead at his feet, rent open by horrible anger...then you have to kill your son. Do not stop, do not question, do not attempt to redeem.

Just kill.

[Capt.Shrike]

Perhaps neither the emporer or his sons did stupid thing just because of misunderstanding each other.Maybe at this time, the emporer felt regret and deep sorrow for letting terrible things happen until now he cannot forgive himself even though still survived in the big golden throne.

[Crasster]

I'm with Batlinard.