My thoughts about Eldar

[tenth]

I dont want to whine or anything, just give you guys some facts:


I played around 80 games with chaos so far, losing only 8 games:

1 to space marines, 1 to ork and 6 to eldar.

I just played a league game against a guys who has played 25 games in total, some with sm, some with orc, some with chaos.

In our game he choose to play eldar, and guess what, he won.
After the match he said, that he only played some skirmish games prior to our game. He switched because he had heard about the sc issue.


Well, for me, this does not seem right at all.

Your opinions please.

[Draft]

I think SC is pretty balanced. Their morale breaks more than Turbo and Ozone trying to save a rec center. Hook up some flamers, and some cultists to tie em up, and youre golden.

[tenth]

Thats what I do mostly. But my success rate is very low with what. If i don`t kill the sc as soon as possible it gets way to big and thus unkillable :(

Maybe I am doing the wrong bo against Eldar :(

[Weavern]

tenth i've been having great success either speed rushing the eldar or using raptors/posessed to kill the farseer then keep the council busy as everything else dies.

[tenth]

Maybe you can give me some replays ?

I am getting better vs Eldar but still I dont feel very comfortable against them. I still think a player with the same skill as I have will always win with Eldar :/

[D3monG3nocide]

The eldar have bloody warp spiders and i was 'golden' with grenade launcher and flamers. but those spiders can warp around the map and take critical points. Obvious way to counter this = horror squad (i think) cos they can teleport but they cost 300 bloody quid. Also those heavy infantry i dunno what th... yeah dark reaper that things hard. not so high attack but it can shoot real fast i seen them cut down like 7 psm.something must be done about our old enemy

D3monG3nocide

[H0NE-HEKE]

Yea can we have some desent helpfull posts. Only reason why elder can beat a same skill Cm player is cause their forum has better help. Honestly i learn more reading their posts in their forum area. LtHill=PL_Asurmen and he always beats me :(.
Weres the good Chaos players at?

Feel free to winge about elder guys cause they are so hashed eg 15member SC and only 10 Guardins!

[Optimus Prime]

Draft the thing is, broken SC go just as good when there not broken. Look at some replays and see for yourself.

[SailorMeff]

tech to 1.5, psm in under 3 minutes and a backup HS for when entangle hits. Your psm cost less to reenforce, do far better damage, take far less damage then SC and assuming a good player entangles you, you can hold out because your psm are taking almost no damage from that 2x squad of gaurdians. When your second squad or your horrors come into the picture at minute 3, you just won. SC is not broken, it's just well hyped and well played.

If you insist on going marines you have to micromanage a lot and you are going to get destroyed by entanglement as you watch your previously dancing marines get mowed down in short order by the council and a hail of needle fire. If for some reason your opponent decided to go with warp spiders, then just keep them busy with cc units (raptors) and laugh as you realise they have little to no CC ability to speak of and your cc can re engage in the time it takes them to set guns to fire after teleporting. Reapers are jokes of units and die very quickly to a set of sm and psm or even a single psm group in the hands of a good microer.

If you are slow and havn't blown up their base with psm yet, you can build a cl and attach it to your psm for some insane moral games, break it to engage ranged infantry but if you get that far your opponent is amazing or you need to work on your speed.

[Nurgleboy]

I think SC is pretty balanced. Their morale breaks more than Turbo and Ozone trying to save a rec center. Hook up some flamers, and some cultists to tie em up, and youre golden.


I've been in matches and seen many replays of SC being broken, and yes they do break fast, but being broken as a squad does nothing to them. They are still ganking stuff like there's no tommorrow WHILE broken.

And so what if they do break easy. Nothing at tier 1 can kill them faster than they reinforce.

[Urziel]

first things first, I want to be an eldar player "when I grow up!" :duck:

what is the thing that makes me wanna play chaos more than eldar??? eldar get their asses kicked too damn easy. The guy was either lucky or you did something wrong in your game. I have seen an eldar put down a chaos (not very easily as well) but up until that time he still was getting his ass kicked. He won cause the other guy thought he had the game in his hands... I think it is in the replays section somewhere go check it out... too much whinning about the SC won't get you nowhere... they are not immortal they do fall...

[Optimus Prime]

Yes Urziel they do fall but as Nurgleboy said no tier 1 units can kill them faster than they reinforce. The whole whining about SC is that they own early on making 1 vs 1 games almost impossible if the Eldar player knows how to use them by re-enforcing them and using conceal/entangle.

[McBanjo]

Your totally right a good game is a fair game (not necessarily a quick one lol :)) I have played about 20 games where I have won only 1 (mainly because of cheap guys who team up with someone on another computer near them) but about 90% of those I battled were eldar, they are given way too many advantages and its why I am uneager to play online anymore because I am a very big chaos fan (nurgle collector if you must know.) Its one of the games cons (One of the only things I can think of that are bad about it though.)

[Optimus Prime]

Very true McBanjo. I have stopped playing 1 Vs 1 because of this. I noramlly play team games as for some reason I have never been SC rushed in a team game.

[Brannigans_Law]

Broken (adj) 1. Has 0 morale, cannot fight well. 2. Is totally unbalanced and needs to be nerfed

Not the same thing :)

[Slubberdubb]

I don't want to whine about the SC either. I just think it needs a little tweaking like making the reinforcement time a little longer. Because like it's been said several times, there is not much that can kill a SC in tier 1. And even if u manage to break them and decimate them to 2 or 3 members any half decent player can pull them back and wait a few seconds until they are reinforced again (they gain FoF for free when broken and basically outrun any unit on the game).
The strategies given against a SC are basically absolutely rushing towards countering the SC (e.g. with a lot of PSM and support). But if the Eldar player is changing his tactic just a little bit and is maybe pushing towards Prisms, you are stuck with a lot of resources wasted on ineffective troops.
I mean building a seer council as Eldar is NEVER a wrong decision imo, because it can deal with most types of units. But as a Chaos Player you are either stuck with countering the SC or running the risk of being wiped out by it.
The only additional advice I can give on how to deal with the SC is sending Defilers if u can get them fast enough (which you won't if the other guy knows how to use his SC)

[DaNoobPower]

Well I wanna talk to u about Eldar.As u can see I'm an Eldar player,though I don't think the sc is such a badass.I'll tell u why.
The sc CANNOT destroy buildings.Surely it can stick around in your base for long,harassing troops but what you mostly have to fear is the Wraithtomb rush that comes with it.Wraithtomb means no troops for u.It also means that my Bonesingers are in your base,and u can be sure a waygate and B-lancers will follow.AND THAT'S WHEN YOUR BASE IS GONNA HAVE PROBLEMS.Many players don't realise the truth about the sc.:It's not broken.It's just unbreakable(if u have played TT).THat means that I don't care if u break my morale.I'm still effective.The sc is a BIIIG distraction.Nothing more.

[BrianGeneral]

The main concern towards Eldar is their Reapers.3 Squads with Farseer,you're dead.(Yep,I can really get them very early)

Except you can get atleast 1 Defiler in 6-7 mins or you're certified.

[Korbah]

I play chaos exclusively with over 80 wins in beta and most of my losses to eldar.

Why???

early game SC is hard to counter without psm....which requires special teching

tier 2.....nothing in ure arsenal will stop a dedicated fire prism rush. Fire prisms slaughter infantry (they knock over ure rocket troops so they can't fire....thus fire prisms don't die) and at that stage preds are far more expensive and can't get lascannon. Defilers in CC will kill em, but the cheap brightlance plats easily slaughter them

tier 3.....similar to tier 2 except u finally get lascannon --> but fire prisms are dirt cheap compared to upgraded preds, do similar damage and u can get more of em (plus some effective use of warp spider grenades to take out the preds makes this a devastating combo)


I often see a force in 2v2 or 3v3 games that has a farseer + SC + fireprism + plats + dark reapers ......quite simply the units compliment each other so well that all of chaos' counters are nullified (eg. their anti-tank infantry are blown about by fireprisms and anti-tank vehicles are taken down by plats)........to make matters worse, this kind of force is easily achieved in tier 2

With 4 fireprisms and 4 plats in about 10-15mins its hard for a chaos player to win


btw don't tell me fire prisms have shit armour.....they've got almost double that of defilers!!!!!

[Haemoculi]

As a predominant Eldar player I can tell you that Sc folds under heavy Bolter and Flamer Fire. And though even when broken they can still take out a marine squad they can't take out much of anything else. Yes they are pretty good but they are a HQ. Not a unit. See we have 1. Farseer 2. Seercouncil. Those are our HQ units. We have The Avater but he is more equilvelant to the BloodThirster, Squiggoth, and Land Raider. Plus with the new patch it is diffcult to get them to Full Strength. albeit 16 men strong with witch blades. I do love the SC and I use them in every game. But against a good foe they lose and they lose bad.

[Urziel]

Ok... I played some times using eldar to see how it goes and I need to say that they were not what I expected...

First of all Optimus you were right... You were right because yes... at first tier there are very few ways you can counter the SC... but they are a unique unit, isn't that supposed to make them as hard to take down as the FC and the CL? of course the eldar have the farseer too but have you seen what these two guys do to a farseer? :Slap: lol

but in general yes, at first I thought that they were unbalanced because they were underpowered but damn... they do rock if you can just make right decisions to your requisition and power "votes!"

but then again are there that many people that can do it?

[Slubberdubb]

@DaNoobPower: you are right that they don't do too much damage to buildings, but since they are so hard to get rid of you can basically lay siege to the enemy base, kill of all workers, maybe destroy one or two generators and so on. In the meantime you can use your remaining troops to capture the remaining posts and deny any resources and build Brightlances (tier 1 also, and darn hard to destroy without rockets or plasma which the Chaos guy won't have until tier 2.. not to mention the lack of CM to put them on, since the seer council picks them all off at the barracks).
I'd say, that if both players are same skill level, the eldar will win 80% of the games, just because Eldar are stronger at the beginning and most games don't last to tier 3 or even 2

[Lars]

@DaNoobPower: TT and DoW are different(I don't like this either, but hey)
In DoW unbreakable units have N/A on their morale count. The SC is not unbreakable.