[1v1] Fenris vs Stratus, Eldar vs SpaceMarine NO SEERS AT ALL (update with landwehr)

[Fenris-X2]

Set of 3

Map: Meeting of Minds
Gametype: 1v1
Players: Fenris/Stratus

Just some replays to show Eldar is completely playable without seer council. I must admit this is the first 3 games I've limited myself to no seers and this is probably the first time stratus has played vs no seer Eldar but it shows its far from impossible to win. I actually had to work for my win these games. Watch as the so called "weak" banshees actually end up being useful.

I'm willing to play vs any SM as I want to try it against more experienced SMs since stratus admits he isn't very experienced with SM.

[Bulwark]

maybe you should see if landwehr will play you.

[Kasrkin]

yea landwehr rules!

[fgStratus]

Yeah, my SM v. Eldar game isn't very good beyond the first 5 min., since all I've had to play against were SC rushes.

I was pretty outplayed in these games, so I don't think we can draw many conclusions from the replay. It'd probably be more helpful if you played one of the more dedicated marine players, and not an Eldar player who just switched to marines for a bit because he's tired of Council =D.

[Fenris-X2]

yeah, wasn't really to prove balance one way or another. but it definitely destroys the myth that is incredibly hard or impossible like Eldar players love to say.

[Kasrkin]

good on ya fenris :) i would love to see banshees used more often :D

[calgar1728]

that was pretty cool banshees actually did something in that game :nana: post the reps against landwehr or whoever else when you play them it will be interesting :D .

[Bakah]

Just FYI i have beaten landwehr's SM without council. It is very possible.

I have been saying it for ages that eldar doesnt need SC early againsy SM and ork, but no one seems to listen unless you are rank 1 :blah:

This isnt a glory rep, its to show you dont need council to be competitive with a top SM player. In fact, from all my games, it is only chaos where i wish i had a council to beat horror's.

[Negator]

Great show Fenris, really refreshing to see Eldar actually using it's units, seems to be working rather well, maybe for added firepower more shuriken cannon platforms?

Bakah nice play, tho why did Landwher build plasmaguns? Sure one squad of those is nice against platforms but against Eldar infantry they can just destroy morale, some heavy bolters would have been rather usefull there :o

Double Post

One thing I've noticed in many SM replays, people build lots of Plasma Powerplants which end up sitting around rather useless. I tried it but it just slowed me down, now I build 2-3 LPs before even getting powerplants to get more basic marines and then giving them guns.
Also why not use infiltrate with scouts, if one is going to sneak into opponents base to kill some bonesingers, why not do it so that you actually get to the bonesinger before you are noticed? It only costs 25/10, a very good bargain.

[ziLa]

Negator - if the farseer is anywhere near the scouts then they will be spotted infiltration or not.

I havent watched Bakahs game yet, but the fenris replays are worthy of a watch... very interesting

[Negator]

I know the Farseer can spot infiltrated scouts but it can't be everywhere all the time, isn't it better to be able to get in unnoticed unless opponent has one specific unit in the base waiting than running in so that you can be seen a mile away?

[Bakah]

tho why did Landwher build plasmaguns

I think he expected council :P

..and i honestly dont know why most sm players dont get infiltrate.

[Fenris-X2]

you asked for a landwehr rep, so here you go. i played him tonight and he was basically screaming bs in the chatroom after ( not at me, at the game ). no seers, no aspects.

[SubZero]

I really think that Warp Spider rushes are the best ..... armed with Haywire grenades :P

[Drunk]

you asked for a landwehr rep, so here you go. i played him tonight and he was basically screaming bs in the chatroom after ( not at me, at the game ). no seers, no aspects.

That replay shows that the overpoweredness of eldar isn't just the council. Its also the fact that upgraded guardians w/ warlocks are the best cost effective unit in the game. Plasma nades take off like 1/3-1/2 health and knock units down, and then with entangle not only can you tie up every hero/cc unit, you also can stop any retreat.

Basically in this game, guardian squad=marine squad. Insanity.

[SubZero]

Basically in this game, guardian squad=marine squad. Insanity.

I think Guardians are just fine.... the real issue is/was/will be the Seer Council...

[Fenris-X2]

yup, but you'd be hard pressed to find any eldar abuser to have any skill beyond hitting reinforce on seer council. according to them, guardians and all eldar infantry die like flies and are unusuable and they only use the council because its their only choice.

[BrianGeneral]

yup, but you'd be hard pressed to find any eldar abuser to have any skill beyond hitting reinforce on seer council. according to them, guardians and all eldar infantry die like flies and are unusuable and they only use the council because its their only choice.

I think it's only depends on which race you're facing......

[Optimus Prime]

Thank goodness there is a replay showing Eldar can win without the SC. It proves many people wrong who say Eldar cannot win without the council.

[BrianGeneral]

Thank goodness there is a replay showing Eldar can win without the SC. It proves many people wrong who say Eldar cannot win without the council.

Yep,when I use Eldar and wins I use no Councils.

[Fatalenergy]

Fenris proves again he knows how to think and play (by seeing this and seeing him beat Blur). I especially like how you were reinforcing your guardian squads. I'll never understand why there are so many players who use nothing but understrengthed squads that early in the game. Guardians are cheap (and stronger than scouts) so it makes sense they can be effective in larger numbers when equiped with plasma grenades and warlocks against a smaller stronger force. I also noted the warlocks were upgraded with witchblades and entangle? Not sure why the SM player didn't do similar upgrades to his squads.

Landwehr once again shows that he has a very effective harrasment technique with Scouts but for the life of me I may never understand why he puts so much emphasis on them. That and his Force Commander came out a little too late again. I believe it was a small edge the Eldar player needed. And the turret at the end (middle map), I understand you weren't having much luck.

I know these guys can play though. I've seen Landwehr in a few games using rushes, dominating the caps, using dreadnoughts etc, so I can pretty much see in this game the eldar are good without the Seer Council. Nice one. I think we need to up our level of understanding of the game mechanics a little more and these replays are a great way for us to learn.

Edit: I forgot to add the note about the fleet of foot upgrade. Its a skill that i'm sure alot of people are annoyed by when used effectively.

[fgStratus]

Another issue is that Eldar do not need to Mobilize For War in order to counter other races' tier 2. If I see dreadnaughts coming towards my base, I can put up 3 webways and build 3-6 brightlance platforms before the dreads get to my base, and that amount of firepower will down the dread instantly.

On the other hand, if I hit Tier 2 (as Eldar) and my SM/Chaos opponent doesn't, he's screwed. Wraithlords will stomp over the marine base, and the fire prism attack is like how the seer council should be (it knocks over everything, but only once in awhile.)

Brightlance platforms should require Mobilize For War. That'd still give Eldar the edge in producing them, since they can set up their webways before the research is done while marines still have to build their machine cult.

[OjKa]

Another issue is that Eldar do not need to Mobilize For War in order to counter other races' tier 2. If I see dreadnaughts coming towards my base, I can put up 3 webways and build 3-6 brightlance platforms before the dreads get to my base, and that amount of firepower will down the dread instantly.

On the other hand, if I hit Tier 2 (as Eldar) and my SM/Chaos opponent doesn't, he's screwed. Wraithlords will stomp over the marine base, and the fire prism attack is like how the seer council should be (it knocks over everything, but only once in awhile.)

Brightlance platforms should require Mobilize For War. That'd still give Eldar the edge in producing them, since they can set up their webways before the research is done while marines still have to build their machine cult.

Its hard enough pumping out Plattys vs an Ork Trukk rush. Its like by the time you have 1 Platty the Ork have 3 Trukks.

[SubZero]

Another issue is that Eldar do not need to Mobilize For War in order to counter other races' tier 2.

Are u forgetting Melta Bombs? Tank Zappa, Super Stikk Bomb...

[fgStratus]

"It's hard enough pumping out Plattys vs an Ork Trukk rush.
Its like by the time you have 1 Platty the Ork have 3 Trukks"

From personal experience, I must disagree. I can start building plats right after I get my soul shrine up. The Ork player needs to build 5 waagh towers and wait for his orky pop to increase to 46.
Wartraks may have a shorter build time, but with 5 webways I can build 5 BLs at a time AND increase my vehicle pop, while the Ork player would need to build 2 mek shops (which already costs more than the webways) and several waaagh towers just to break even.
If you're playing Ork as Eldar, then you should expect a wartrak rush. And if you're expecting a wartrak rush, you're going to have a lot more BLs than he has wartraks.


"Are u forgetting Melta Bombs? Tank Zappa, Super Stikk Bomb..."

And Eldar have haywire grenades.

Brightlances should be the equivalent of missile launchers. That's tier 2.

[exile7]

I also noted the warlocks were upgraded with witchblades...

i've noticed this in replays before and wondered why top players do this when they hardly ever get their guardians into CC. on closer inspection it seems to be an animation bug. watch closely and the warlocks only have the witchblades when they are doing the 'force push' animation. when they are running round the have the normal swords.

unless it's the other way round, and they have the witchblades, but it doens't show up when they are in the running animation.

[Fenris-X2]

its animation bug