View Full Version : How to be a better team player/mate.
8th Oct 04, 1:44 PM
How to be a better team mate.
Good day folks, this post is intended to give you the fundamentals to be a good (or better) ally, not just in games with friends but in games with strangers as well. I will be giving information on secrets my SLS brothers and I have discovered as we play together. This is so you, the average joe, not in a group can stand a better chance at beating us, and giving us one hell of a fight if you don't. With the info I am providing I hope you will see that dropping from a game isn't necessary if you lose the first battle in a team game.
First off lets start with some basics.
Strategic Point: SP
Listening Post/Shrine/etc: LP
Chapel Barracks: CB
Force Commander: FC
Chaos Lord: CL
Big Mek: BM
Seer Council: SC
Critical Point: CP
Slag Heaps: Slag
Know the race you are playing. The BIGGEST hindrance you can provide to your team in a game is lack of knowledge in the tech tree of your chosen race. Don't join team games til you know what to do to get your troops or vehicles built then upgraded, if you are going to quit in the first 5 minutes. Quitting is never going to get you up that tech tree, quitting is just going to get you disliked.
Know the map you are playing on. This one is one hell of an important one, if you don't know the map well enough to get help to your ally as quickly as possible you will lose a LOT of games and get very frustrated. If you don't know where the opponents bases are going to be on the map you may end up forcing their hand early before you are ready and getting the game lost before it has begun. Take the time to skirmish an easy CPU to learn the layout of the maps. You need to know how many SPs, relics, slags, and CPs there are on the map and where all the spawn points are. Next you need to know how many of those req points are YOURS.
Make no mistake each map has a set number of points per player, then there are the set number of points intended for contestation. You need to know how many of those points are YOURs, how many belong to your allies, AND how many are going to be points of contention with the enemy. You need to know all this BEFORE you get into the game. Knowing the map will allow you to remove one worry from your mind, at least you KNOW where you have to build/capture/defend without the enemy showing up there to help you learn.
Know how to communicate, it sounds simple but the truth is, too many players send their troops into battle alone. If you want to attack TELL your team you need support and where you will need it.
This brings up the subject of learning to use the PING function. Why type out where you want troops sent to when all you have to do is click and click? Click the green circle to the lower left of the mini map (or use ctrl-p I believe) and then either click on the area in the mini map or (secret #1) click the spot in the game window. Yes siree if you hit ctrl-P or click the ping button you can click in the game window to ping the exact spot you mean! Click a unit, click a vehicle, click a point, it doesn't matter what ever you want pinged can be done in the mini map and the GAME window.
So don't just tell your allies what you need/want SHOW them TOO!
Pay attention to the map settings AND team numbers. I tell you I get tired of "'xyz' team x please" you join a game, the first thing you do is check the teams, see what team YOU should be on then set it that way. ALWAYS check the settings. Is shared res on, is it quickstart, high res, fast game speed, win conditions? CHECK THEM ALL! If assassinate is on GUARD your hero with your life! If you don't know the settings you may end up playing the game in a different manner that the win conditions suggest, causing you to hurt your allies. Shared res is an important one, I've posted about it many times do a search if you don't understand it, knowledge is power, however if you want to win DON'T hide it.
Okay now on to some of the bigger sekrits.
One thing you will learn when you have a firm grasp of the map layouts is that in larger games some allies don't need to rush out the hero or a lot of marines. If you are playing a 3v3 or 4v4 and are between 2 allies, you have the opportunity to tech up a different route. You can get a squad or two of basic fighting units and send them to the ally that is sitting next to an opponent and help him with his defenses as he repulses the enemy. You don't have an enemy at your doorstep so you can get your LPs up faster, cap more points (especially if shared res is on!!) spend money on power gens etc.
If you are not on a battle front you can conserve your res for upgrading and spend less on defense, spend enough to help your team mates but don't skimp so much they are doing all the fighting. Getting to an early dread/pred/defiler/wraith/killacan can turn the tide of battle. If they have been building to repulse your infantry units perhaps they forgot to get missiles, a well placed vehicle can win you the game. Getting to units you can jump into battle is an excellent strategy if you are between allies.
I was recently in a few games with a guy who rushed horrors and double pumped them, any time we hit a pocket of resistance up popped a squad or 2 of horrors, he had res to spare because he was not at a battle front and constantly re-enforcing squads so could devote it all to getting horrors and once capped he could replace them faster than they died. Not only that but he was perfectly willing to donate the extra res to any of his allies to make sure they had sufficient for the battles and replacement troops. Team play can be fun!
Big Sekrit #2
Allies can BUILD and repair your stuff.As simple as that sounds it opens up a WHOLE world of options, especially if you are taking a beating.
First off, you can repair your allies vehicles in your base if you have spare workers sitting around just do it, this saves you AND he res by not having to take the time or res to replace the unit once it re-enters battle. Most units will survive many battles IF you repair them before the next one. You can build any building for your ally given ONE requirement, the ally has to START the building first.
Let me explain, if you play eldar you know you can build a webway gate anywhere that you can see through the fog of war. You tell a worker to build in the spot you want and they move to that spot to do so. HOWEVER, lets say you want a webgate at your ally's base for fast support. Do you wait for your worker to walk or jump over there? Not necessarily. If your bone singer can jump the distance no big deal, what if it is out of his range? Simple, you tell the bonesinger to BUILD the gate in your allies base, THEN you tell it to go do something else right away. This will START the gate in your allies base, then all you do is PING the gate needing to be finished and ask them to build it FOR you. Viola you have just completed an advanced team tactic! Now lets take this a bit further.
Some maps have SPs close enough to each other that your ally can swap a spot with you, Volcanic Reaction is one of these. If you are eldar it doesn't matter you can webgate for build space, if you are any other race it DOES. Swap the points with them then you LP it up and build your troop building RIGHT NEXT TO THE LP! Suddenly you and your ally don't have to WAIT for your troops to foot it up to help push back the battle front. Your barracks is right there NEAR his base so you can support him from it.
Lets take it one step farther! Lets say you are getting over run buy the enemy, help is on the way BUT it won't get there in time OR make a difference if you die. If you can live through the fight your force combined with your allies can pull out a win (I have recordings with this happening), what do you do????
Well the ONLY building the other three races can build in almost any spot is their HQ. If you have room you can build it almost ANYWHERE. Tell a worker to START a new HQ in one of your allies bases! Let your ALLY build it for you, if you don't have the req for it ask for it, if you can't get the req for it delete your HQ so your cost drops to the bare minimum then drop it, one note though, make sure you have another building left before you delete the HQ, without at least a power gen in an annihilate game you die. If you have no HQ as marines it costs you 450/0 req/power to replace it, if you do have an HQ it cost 750/150 for a second. Keep this in mind when you are the one positioned at the battle front spot on the map. My friends and I have won many games because we placed a building for an ALLY to finish to keep us in the game, we had the troops but they were not in a place to help before a base was over run and destroyed. By placing an HQ and getting it started before all our buildings were razed we were able to push back the enemy, defeat their forces, push forward to their base, and rebuild our losses enough to come back.
I'm kind of tired right now so I'll add to this a bit later, read it and play well.
regards, Alpha 1
Resource sharing 101:
There has been a lot of debate in the past about disabling resource sharing, let me provide a detailed explaination here again since searching is disabled.
Resource sharing is a feature that can make or break your team play. As such it actually does fall under the realm of improving team play, let me explain. Res sharing is nothing more than the whole team benefiting from the diligence of it's individuale team members. This is how it breaks down.
With res sharing off, only the player capping and building benefits from his own diligence, each SP and CP provides +6 req for them as captured, every power gen adds +10 to power intake and every thermo ads +20. While this rewards the player that pays attention to it, it can hurt the team in general. One player is able to build up faster and the other(s) with less experience build up slower, sure you can donate to your ally but even the process of donation takes away from controling units in the game. Anything that inhibits your ability to control units is a bad thing, donation should be a LAST resourt.
Now with res share on this is how it goes. For every point capped EACH player gets a +6 to their req not just the capturer, for each power gen built in a 2v2 game each player gets a +6 to power, in a 3v3 it is +4, in a 4v4 it is +3 (figures checked). Now it may seem that you get less with sharing on but lets look at it closer.
In NS (no sharing) you build 2 power gens you get a +20, in sharing you get +12 (2v2), +8 (3v3), or +6 (4v4), however as your ally(s) get their power gens up YOU get more too 12*2 = 24, 4 more than when NS, 8*3=24, same as 2v2, 4*6=24, notice how you actually garner a +4 increase when sharing is on.
So you see you actually get more req/power if sharing is on AND all your allies are dilligent. Now lets move on to if they are not.
If your allies are not diligent they can and do hurt the cause, however, not anywhere as NEAR as if NSing. The reason is because THEY still benefit from YOUR dilligence so can STILL afford to produce units though at a slower rate. As they gain experience they will become better allies and not hurt you as much, until then it is up to us all to help them understand the importance of upgrading req/power intake.
Now let me explain what is/isn't shared, Every time you build an LP you get about half that req back when it is complete, this means you actually pay 1/2 the cost for getting LPs built, only YOU get that 50% back, however the addition to the intake (the + value) is increased for ALL team members, each LP adds a +6 to your req and that of your allies. When you research your req/power upgrades only YOUR income is improved by it, any upgrade made on an LP is shared across the board.
So researching income upgrades are individual, bonus req/power for building the structures are individual, ALL building upgrades are team shared. Every time you go up a level on your LPs you help all your allies, this makes sharing a MUST for allied play of EXPERIENCED players, especially when breaking in a new ally.
Remember, HQ is +20, SPs and CPs provide +6 each so if your ally only gets 4 points and no LPs he is still giving you a +24 to your income, his income will go up with yours but because he/she doesn't build LPs they can never get the additional req provided by the researches. In a NS game you don't benefit from the +24 he would add to you but HE only gets +44 total (+20 hq, +6*4=44, ) as opposed to +68 with sharing on (+20 hq, +6*8=68) +24 for his 4 SPs, +24 for yours, and +20 for his HQ.
Hope this helps.
Corrected Shared income figures.
8th Oct 04, 4:28 PM
Nice article Alpha. If every team game was like that it would be wonderful.
8th Oct 04, 4:49 PM
Great thread :)
8th Oct 04, 6:50 PM
Well done, love it.
8th Oct 04, 8:46 PM
Never thought that allies could finish building things for you, shall be using that in future...
8th Oct 04, 10:49 PM
8th Oct 04, 11:02 PM
Great article. I knew I could repair and build my ally's stuff, but never really thought of the tactical applications for it. Thanks!
9th Oct 04, 7:51 AM
Not a problem people, I'll be adding to this soon so look for more 'sekrits'.
Yeah this was pretty informative, there were definately some things I hadnt considered. I am going to mess around a bit with the repairing/construction of ally units and structures.
Alpha if you could be so kind as to post a link to your resource sharing explanation I would be most appreciative. Because search is disabled I havent been able to locate a good explanation.
9th Oct 04, 8:58 AM
hmmmm never heard about the building sekrit, if only we could get all those silly gits online to read this......
9th Oct 04, 9:40 AM
I'll go ahead and add it to the initial post, I had not realised search was still disabled.
9th Oct 04, 1:44 PM
Wow nice info! Keep it up :)
9th Oct 04, 4:05 PM
Stickied. Nice one Alpha.
9th Oct 04, 6:30 PM
Thanks, as I remember more stuff I'll post it, I had more to add but so much typing made me forget to add it, hehe.
9th Oct 04, 9:54 PM
Is SLS recruiting?
10th Oct 04, 7:37 AM
To further improve game skills here are a few more tidbits.
Generally in the games we play I end up with the bigger military score, either from units killed, least units lost, or from buildings razed. Getting that score while nice isn't my initial goal but by using a few sound tactics in troop control you will find your score in military rise.
The game is set so that even on stand ground stance, your troops will move forward a small amount to keep your heavy weapons in range of the target. Every heavy weapon you have also has a minimum range. Another thing is that troops will tend to stick in the same order they stop in if you move them all together.
So to set up a highly effective and damaging group of marines you can try the following. Place any squads with flamers in the front of your ranks, behind or flanking them have plasma troops setup, behind and/or flanking the plasma squads have heavy bolters, at the very back have 2-3 squads with only missiles. Now while this setup by itself is dangerous, sight radius is it's enemy, to alleviate that you have 2 options. You can use 1-2 squads of infi scouts at the front of your formation to the left and right to give your whole group a massive sight radius for taking out whatever is coming, ideally you would place them like this `- - - `, where the ` are scouts and the _ are the first rank of troops. The other option is using skull probes from a close by LP on overwatch set to rally behind enemy lines. You can cloak the skull probes if you like but since all they are for is warning of advancing troops or turrets in your patch they really don't need to be infiltrated.
What you do is move your scouts forward a few inches (onscreen of course) to dispel the fog of war. Once the scouts have advanced you move your troops up the same amount. This type of advancing allows you to slowly show unknown territory and gives your troops time to set up if turrets or troops are revealed. Now I always have scouts with snipers, you get 1 instant dead troop for every 2 snipers and I sometimes have 3 squads of them. I usually don't uncloak them until there is a raging battle because I want them for spying, however they can be useful for sniping and killing moral if your forces are getting hammered.
Never advance forward enough so that more than one or 2 turrets in a setup can fire at your squads, give your missiles time to hit them before advancing more. If you have snipers just sitting outside the sight radius of a group of enemy units, uncloak the scouts for a few snipes. If you are lucky the sniping will cause the troops to rush forward, right into your already setup and waiting troops. I can't tell you how many times I have baited enemy troops into my killing zone with 1-2 snipes. Works wonders.
Learn to retarget your troops quickly, always aim for the most moral damaging units first, I will go out of my way to kill artillery behind their lines even if I lose a few troops because I don't have the moral issue once it is dead.
Another little sekrit I just remembered, retarget your turrests. Most people don't know that turrets WILL listen to a retarget command, especially if the new target is troops. If you have to prioritize your targets for the turrets do so, your smarter than the AI, take out the unit/structure you think is most important.
As you advance into enemy territory, TAKE DOWN SPs, I normally use res sharing, every SP you take down on the enemy team takes +12, +18, or +24 req down for that team, every SP is worth +6 to each member of the team, while it only drops the team by +6 per member, you also hurt them by having taken down the LP in the first place. That means if they had level 2 LPs (max upgrade) they lose +24 PER PERSON. You get +6 for a SP, +6 for the LP, +6 for level 1 LP, and +6 for level 2 LP. That +24 per person is NOTHING to sneeze at. I usually have 1 squad of scout devoted to only taking down SPs that I moved pasted while advancing. Never use marines for that, only scouts, if you have an ally along have them take the points down then back up for your team.
Criticals and relics take a LONG time to get up, however they also hurt the other team when taken down. Relics have a dick all sight radius but CPs are excellent for spying. They have a massive sight radius and so should ALWAYS be a target for removal once you control the area it is in. Take them down fast then shuffle your troops so the info they got is no longer valid. If you have the time getting the crit up for your team is a good idea.
Sorry if this seems to be a rambeling but I type it as it comes to mind. I'll have more later.
regards, Alpha 1
10th Oct 04, 6:55 PM
That's all well and good for marines alpha, but what about da orks? :P
All of this is pretty good information, I'll be looking to take advantage of this stuff next time we play.
10th Oct 04, 9:22 PM
Well I have to actually get GOOD at playing orks to type comprehensive info but I will repost the general info for orks since a lot of people still do not understand how to best play them.
11th Oct 04, 4:49 AM
Wow thats a LONG list and many of those are really helpful. My quest is that is their a way to help prevent an early game bum rush where you get double teamed by your opposing team in the first 2 min maybe less. This had happened to me more than I would like to admit usually by an ork and choas opposing player team. Any info would help thanks.
11th Oct 04, 12:56 PM
Some orkie goodness.
First of all to play orks you have to understand the population structure they use. All three other races us a squad based pop cap, that is each squad takes up a specific pop amount, so the 20 pop max doesn't actually mean you have 20 squads. However that isn't how orks work, each ork warm body (or cold I'm not a fluff major) counts as 1 pop. Every individual ork not counting gretchins, counts as 1 in the pop cap. This means that you can have 25 squads of 4 orks each or 4 squads of 25 each and you use the same population count (don't use these numbers as real pop figures, they are just for illustration).
Gretchins are the exception, if you play orks the first thing you have to learn is that gretchin squads, no matter what size, use 1 ork pop, reinforcing them cost you nothing BUT time, no req, no power, NO population! Get your gretchins reinforcing ASAP! Gretchins can also build while infiltrated, take the time and money to research it, you can keep a waaagh banner repaired under fire if there is no hero unit around to decloak your gretchins. Infiltrated gretchins are gretchins that can't be shot.
Now on to some more information.
Ork targeting sucks, there is nothing you can do to change that, that is the way it is supposed to be, HOWEVER there is a little known sekrit to getting around that issue. Think back to the ork pop cap system, you can have lots of small squads or a few big ones, now combined that with knowing that heavy weapons are squad limiting. That is you can have only so many heavy weapons per squad, combined this with the novel way in which you can fill out your ork pop and you have a means for getting around the orks terrible aiming abilities.
Don't build massive squads, build massive heavy weapons, this means you get a lot of LITTLE ork squads and give each squad heavy weapons, you can have those 25 squads of 4 have 3 heavy weapons each for a total of 75 heavy weapons or you can have 4 squads of 25 each and 3 heavy weapons per squad for a total of 12 heavy weapons, which method do you think is more tactically sound?
Now one more thing about the little squads, you do want to add a knob leader to each one, you can get a lot of knobs without the price of a knob squad, each benefitting from the leader upgrades getting power claws and what not. So ideally you get a bunch of small squads with their max of 3 or 6 heavy weapons and a knob leader in each, now you have a deadly mob going. One trick I've heard used is that when you know you are going into battle and you have the pop full with small squads, set all the squads to overwatch so they replace the lost orks as they fight. This keeps you at the max pop so you don't lose all your orks as quickly.
A word on reverse teching, ork tech is based on the number of waaagh banners they have up, each banner gives you a +10 to your ork pop cap up to a total of 100. If you lose banners you can suffer from reverse tech, you lose access to the tech tied to a specific ork population cap limit. Lets take wartraks, they are 41 or 46 pop tech, this means you have to have at least 5 waagh banners to be able to build them from the mek shop. Lose any of the banners and you lose the ability to build the wartraks. This forces you to rebuild the waaagh banners to reaquire the tech.
Ork buildings bite back, they are however very fragile compared to other races, so you have to keep any vehicles out of your base. Waaagh banners are the equivalent turret for orks, however they are REQUIRED in order to get your population up to max. Keep building waagh banners as you get the req for it so you can max your pop without too much trouble, also remember to upgrade the guns on them so they can put out more damage. There are 2 levels, level 1 gets a more powerful gun, level 2 gets you missiles. Keep a good combination of both around so you can hurt vehicles and infantry with them. Don't sacrifice troops and upgrades for waagh banner upgrades though, at 50/50 each it can get pretty expensive to upgrade all your banners.
The squiggoth is considered a vehicle, this means it can be repaired, don't let all that req/power go to waste, repair him when he needs it, never send him in alone, and always use the charge ability as often as possible.
I don't play ork all that often so this is just some basic stuff I know to help you better understand and use them. I'll try to add more info as I learn it and also get some stuff on the other races in here too.
If you get the tech, req, power, and time always get nob squads, nothing will roll over a base like 5 nob squads.
Also the moral of the orks is not squad size dependent but population dependent, that is you need 30 orks or more to garner the mob moral bonus. That means you can have several small squads vrs few large squads as long as you have 30+ orks all together in the area/fight to get the moral mob bonus.
regards, Alpha 1
I'll address the early bum rush soon.
Corrected errors, included a little more info.
11th Oct 04, 1:36 PM
That Ork stuff is great Alpha, but what's it have to do with being a better teammate?
11th Oct 04, 2:08 PM
OMG Alpha_1 thank you so much. Your writings are very usefull and I will give them to my clans team members so they can have a read. Greetings!
11th Oct 04, 2:49 PM
Quick question on the "ally build" sekrit: If I (as SM) drop a HQ into an ally base, can he build it with Singers, Heretics, or Gretchin? Same question for all race combos.
11th Oct 04, 11:31 PM
In a word, yes.
As I stated in the initial post, knowing the tech tree of your chosen race is key in you being able to build units that can help the team in it's war efforts. If you don't know the above info on Orks, you're never going to be as effective with them as you could be. Being effective in a team game is all part of being a better team mate.
13th Oct 04, 6:52 AM
The Ork info is really great, especially the part about the small yet heavily armed squads.
One question though: don't the orks break really easily if they are in such small groups? Or is their morale not squad dependent but kind of aura dependent?
13th Oct 04, 7:07 AM
Coolness, I did not know you could build a Stronghold anywhere on the map
13th Oct 04, 7:35 AM
I don't really know, as I responded to Murph, I am not well versed in ork play, SM yes, Eldar almost as much, ork and chaos, almost none. However I do know how the orks work and how to be effective when using them. So I can't answer your question at this point. All I can say is pull back any broken squads to give them time to regen morale.
Ork moral is population based, if you have 30+ orks in close proximity they get a morale boost, doesn't matter if it is many small squads or few large ones, as long as there are 30+ orks in the area/fight.
There is one exception, the eldar. They are unable to build their stronghold just anywhere. In fact they can't just drop a stronghold. Due to the mobility they have AND that they can place a webgate anywhere on the map they have one restriction to setting up a stronghold. It has to be built in the control area of another structure. That means you have to have a listening post, webgate, or thermao plasma gen in the area to build an extra stronghold. Considering Eldar can lame up almost any point on the map this is a nice minor trade off.
This is actually wrong, I guess I just didn't try hard enough to place an HQ in a clear area, no webgate is needed for eldar either. Too bad though, would have been a good trade off for the relocation matrix.
13th Oct 04, 9:27 AM
Now for the 'bum rush' answer.
First off every race has a different rush they can pull off, this rush can take several forms but is more deadly if it involves more than one player. In fact the rush varies depending on what race it is used against too.
You need to know and consider several factors when trying to combat the bum rush, they are: the map, it is the first and makes a big difference in this, the races of the opponents, the race you and your ally choose, and what the settings are for the game.
First of all the map is most important because how your ally(s) can get to your base determines how fast they can help you. Second, where the enemy bases are determines how fast they can get support for a bum rush and how they can get to you. Every map is a little different and those differences will also play a big role in determinaing how you get support.
Race of your opponents is the next consideration, regardless of what race you are you have to know what the possibilities are for a bum rush from the races your opponents play. I'll get into those later.
The race you and your ally choose is needed in consideration of how to combat the bum rush you may recieve.
First and formost do not start the game expecting a bum rush unless the person you are playing against has done so before. If they have and you know what is coming you can prepare for it early. Thge reason is you do not want to modify your normal game just for an occassional bum rush.
Lets use the ork/chaos example asked about above.
Orks start with one squad already out, this means the smaller the map the more likely you see that squad in the first 2 minutes, that means you have to deal with it with less than full tech or even hardy squads. Alone it would be easy to prevent and own with just one turret placed between your HQ and barracks (so it can cover both from attack). However the added problem of chaos and it's CL and marine squads raises more concern.
I actually had this situation in a game on volcanic reaction with a clan member who was fairly new at the game, we were playing against another set of clanmates from a different clan, one ork and one either SM or chaos, I can't remember ATM. Anyway I took a risk and told my ally to drop a turret asap, I sent up a worker and what I had as well as the 100 power I had to him so he could get his comm or a 2nd turret if need be. Sure enough my guess was right and a 15 or so strong ork squad showed up only to meet a turret in the place they wanted to attack.
Now back in my base I was still capturing points and building my barracks and a power gen and between us all we had were 2-3 scout squads each, no match for orks without an armory, however having the one turret saved us the loss because the orks all died. The rush was so early there was nothing anyone could do if they were not ork to fight or support the attack, only a turret in the base was the answer. The scouts were better used to continue capturing points so our economy didn't suffer. My ally was also building his commander so that helped as well. By the time his comm was out the orks were trying to leave.
Now you have to understand that with orks, if they do not use that first squad to start capturing points, they seriously hurt their economy. He was relying on his ally to gather the points but by not getting his own they were in worse shape than us.
So if you know you will be facing an ork opponent, get that turret up, it might even be worth it to place one in each base incase the orks try to run once they see it (this depends on the map though). Regardless if you have a turret it can be pounding on anything coming into your base, wether ork or chaos. If shared res is on your ally can help by continuing to cap points AND building a power gen, also the first thing to build before marines if SM is the FC, the turret will provide fire support, all you have to do is keep the FC near the turret to keep him covered. Since you get a turret you can't get an FC right off so a power gen and a marine squad would do. That way once the gen is up you can get more turrets (just 1-2 if really needed) or your FC if you have the req.
Esentially a turret in your base is the answer to a bum rush, however you do not want to waste req on a turret if you don't have to. Only go that route IF you think a bum rush is coming. Placement is important too, you have to place it so it covers all your buildings as the whole point of a bum rush is to take out your early units and buildings if possible. For an ork opponent this is the thought process, they HAVE guns on their base so they don't have to worry about it. You don't so you have to rectify that situation if facing ork.
If you are expecting a bum rush from any other race you need to have your commander and a squad of marines out to combat it. You can not face an enemy opponent who has a hero out if you do not have your own. In 2v2 games this is a requirement, in 3v3 games or 4v4 games you may be able to get away with not getting your hero first. Also the map is part of the equation as well. Currently with the fixed location bug, you really can't play a 2v2 game on a bigger map, the opponent will always be right next to you so you don't get time for a progressive buildup. Once they fix the bug however, you can play 2v2 games on larger maps and not have to worry about big rushes in the first 2 minutes.
You also need to have an ally that can and does know how to get his hero and troops out fast to back you up if you do get bum rushed. Remember the bum rusher isn't concentraiting on his economy, try to learn to concentrait on yours while fighting during the bum rush. Just remember you can have workers build a turret in your base WHILE your troops attack his in or near your base, so there is no harm in setting one up a little later.
13th Oct 04, 9:49 AM
I'm going to have to disagree on the turret answer to the bum rush. It's just too expensive in power to justify that early. Not only are you spending 75 power but also 150 rec + the 165 rec of the generator if you want your hero out too.
My answer is...let the ork pound on a building for awhile. 1 ork squad will do crap damage to buildings in the window of opportunity it has to do damage. they'll more than likely go after LPs (which stand up well to 1 squad of slugga boyz sans BM) or uncapped points. Get your servitors to safety so he doesn't kill'em and start microing your 2-3 scout squads. Scouts are actually very effective vs. orks and with a little micro will have him frustrated enough to leave and regroup. He can only go after one squad at a time so you can out-dance with your two.
You don't need power to spend on a turret, only some rec to spend reinforcing aforementioned scout squads.
There's a few replays posted by Gnug, or Gung, I forget exactly the name, but he as ork gets beaten by a marine player fully utilizing scout squads. Pretty good stuff.
With chaos it's another story because cultists won't stand up at all, but as far as SM is concerned, they're fine.
13th Oct 04, 10:07 AM
Surrigon, the nice things about countering with one turret in the middle of your base are these:
a) Turrets (by a bug or whatever) shoot through most objects.
b) Turrets hose all of those early units and allow you time to react.
c) If you find you don't need it you can always get some of the req and power back (what was it 75 req and 35 power regained if it is deleted?)
Against Scout rush, this is the best of a limited amount of options you can use... Alpha and I tried a bunch.
13th Oct 04, 10:22 AM
One question, how many scouts were replaced with reinforcement during the fight? Also, how many scout squads were used in the battle. Considering that one turret costs 150/75, and that scouts are 90 for a squad and 45 each, which means is more cost effective, for that matter which one takes the orks out faster?
Obviously the ork rush you saw in a recording was not a very effective one, no doubt it came later that the example I gave. This was also NOT a 1v1 game so your comments are not even on subject. Please consider the cost differences before claiming to know a better way. The counter I propose IS in my opinion the MOST cost effective for the situation.
13th Oct 04, 10:30 AM
The replay just proves a point, that point being that scouts can be used effectively vs. orks and that orks do crappy damage to buildings. I'm not saying scouts can take out orks faster than turrets, only saying that you don't need that extra time when considering that 1 ork squad won't be that much of a threat with decent micro of scouts. We're talking about a small window of time, the time from the initial game and the making of your FC, since he's going to leave after he shows up.
Abstract from the specific replay and you'll get the general ideas I was getting at.
My comments ARE on subject because as you replied earlier in the thread, being a better player means being a better teammate.
I'm fully aware of the fact that my solution is not necessarily the best one, however you having the opinion that the turret is the most effective counter does not make it true. Just as you are entitled to your opinion, I am to mine. Either of us are also entitled to be wrong.
I did consider cost differences. For one, you cannot factor in the 90 rec initial cost of scouts into your equation. Why? because this is being paid for whether you're doing your tactic or mine. So it's really 4 extra scouts spread over 2 squads which is 180 rec. This is vs 315/75 adding in the cost of the generator that you need to make both turret and FC. So my tactic now 135 rec less AND 75 power less, which is a good trade-off considering you're only dealing with the orks til' your FC is made.
13th Oct 04, 11:29 AM
ok well thanks for the advice and help alpha 1 I'm sure I'll put it to good use.
13th Oct 04, 12:02 PM
You have a lot to learn my friend.
You are in a team game (that was the subject) you HAVE a team mate, you spending the req on a turret is far more cost effective, you also are going to NEED a power gen regardless of when you build it. You speak from a 1v1 stand point, I speak from a team play stand point. It isn't an issue of knowing how to play better in a 1v1 or not, nor is it about the tactics you could use in a 1v1.
If you want to hamper your teams collection of strat points by using your scouts to tie up 15 orks, kudos to you. You lose the req you would have gathered if the scouts were out collecting more points, net result = Ork caused you major problems. I build the turret, I have scouts out collecting points, I lose no req other than the 75/40 when (if) I recycle the turret. I finish off the orks faster, I collect SPs faster, I get power more quickly, net result Ork lost all the res for 15 orks and I and my ally DO NOT.
Not only that but the issue you don't address is time. The less time I or an ally wastes controlling a single battle at the point in the game when we should be establishing an econemy the better established we will be later in the game than the opponents.
You continue to waste your time on what your opinion tells you is the best way to combat a bum rush, I'll continue to promote what I feal is a far superior technique for combating it. This is a suggestion for how to get the most out of a team game in combating a bum rush, no one said it was the only way, I think it just happens to be the BEST way.
One last point, if I can't consider the cost of the scouts because I need them you can't consider the cost of the power gen because you WILL need one. Don't think bringing in tactics from a 1v1 is going to get you a stronger team game, some tactics will hamper more than help.
And since I am giving my ally my 100 power for his FC to be built too, your other point is moot too because I don't need to build a commander this early in the game, HE will have his more quickly on the spot than I ever could. Stop thinking 1v1 play, it doesn't always work in team games.
BTW you never mentioned HOW many orks were in that recording, why?
And for God sakes go make your own damn post if you don't agree with my thread. This is intended to help TEAM play not 1v1 play. You want to suggest good 1v1 play go make your own thread, please.
13th Oct 04, 2:10 PM
Turrets are not cost effective... Those who use them stand a good chance of losing. I don't recall having lost to anyone who has built an early turret (mainly because the "bum rush" is a good way to get killed in high level games). Are there uses for turrets? Yeah, but few and far between. I personally would like to see them be more cost effective. Probably not possible but the best idea I could come up with is allowing them to be collapsed for a small fee and replaced by a servitor. Thier main weakness is that they cost so much and aren't mobile. Yes you may kill off some orks but at 35 a pop how badly is it hurting him considering a good player is just going to avoid the turret?
13th Oct 04, 3:27 PM
Orks cant avoid the turret if it's covering all the structures in the base.
13th Oct 04, 3:37 PM
Okay I have to apologise to Surrigon because I got a little ansy there, I know there are other means of turning a bum rush, this means is the most economical AND the easiest for a newer player to pull off in a team game.
How ever in reply to Orional,
One turret is very cost effective, 15 orks died, 11 of them cost 385, replacing them is another 140 and I don't recall if he reinforced as he attacked but the point is, instead of replacing troops at 50 or 45 a pop, 150/75 is spent on a turret. The turret takes out 385 req worth of orks at no loss of scout or marine life, score one for the marines, 225 in res (150+75) kills 385 worth of req and gives 75/35 back if deleted. Orkie has to spend an additional 140 for another squad to capture his SP.
Strategic and tactical victory (and the game in my case) to the turret builders. I am not saying to build a turret EVERY game, however if you see the rush coming and are not ready for it a turret can save the day, however if you KNOW the player is ork and they rush, a turret is a must to save you time and money.
Remember this is a team game here I am trying to improve, not 1v1 play, I want better opponents to have fun winning and losing against.
Now on to another sekrit I just discovered.
I was in a game with some guys that were not good team players against an established team, needless to say we lost, if I had not had to pick up a child from school I'd have stayed long enough to have my base destroyed seeing as mine was the first target. As it happened I scuttled everything but the barracks so I could at least give them my req/power before leaving.
The point I'm making here is that one of the players used ping, but when he did the game said 'attack here' I was flabbergasted that it was possible and got no reply as to how it was done, now however it is time to share the discovery with you all.
Ping is teh win!
Right clicking on the green ping button will have it cycle through the different TYPEs of pings you can send. Each has it's own color AND icon representation on the minimap. The possible pings are: Attack here, defend here, resource here, capture here and the standard ping.
This is one feature I am going to promot in all team games till it is second nature. Enjoy!
13th Oct 04, 7:09 PM
How ever in reply to Orional,
One turret is very cost effective, 15 orks died, 11 of them cost 385, replacing them is another 140 and I don't recall if he reinforced as he attacked but the point is, instead of replacing troops at 50 or 45 a pop, 150/75 is spent on a turret. The turret takes out 385 req worth of orks at no loss of scout or marine life, score one for the marines, 225 in res (150+75) kills 385 worth of req and gives 75/35 back if deleted. Orkie has to spend an additional 140 for another squad to capture his SP.
Any player worth his salt is going to avoid the turret and take down SP's. Any player worth his salt isn't going to sit there and lose 15 orks to a turret heh... He'll back out, take all the points around your base or hit another base with an ally. Where will you be? Sitting there with a turret that does you no good or if you delete it taking a 75/40 economy hit... If you have an opponent that is stupid enough to sit there and lose that much requisition then yeah, turrets are great. Not happenin in high level games.
I've often said that the difference between a good player and a great player is one that can systematically judge each encounter and weigh out risk vs reward.
13th Oct 04, 7:37 PM
Please take this discussion to another thread, it isn't about high level play. It should be obvious to you by now that this is a thread devoted to helping the new players LEARN how to be good team mates.
Trying to get them to use advanced tactics without the skill and knowledge to pull them off is just going to frustrate them. Keep that in mind when you reply if you decide to.
Really you would think from your posts you think I'm trying to define what advanced players do, clearly you don't understand the purpose of the thread.
I don't recall having lost to anyone who has built an early turret (mainly because the "bum rush" is a good way to get killed in high level games).
This comment just proves my point too. So why did you bother commenting on a decidedly non-high level play topic about high level play?
13th Oct 04, 7:48 PM
Sorry didn't realize the point of the thread was to promote mediocre play... Carry on!
14th Oct 04, 6:27 AM
I guess when you were born you immediatly jumped out of the doctors arms and began singing and dancing. That is well and good for you, perhaps you did not know 99.99999% of all other births involve the infant learning to crawl, then walk, then run.
It is nice that you were able to go straight to the high level play you espouse, I guess just because you were able to get in the game and run with it you think everyone else can too. Sadly that isn't the case. So before you try to demean me and the people who can actually use the information I have posted why don't you consider that?
I apologised to your clanmate because he had the courtesy to PM me to ask me why I was being such an ass rather than clutter this thread. He was right I was being an ass, now I'd like it if you would stop being one. This thread, once again, is intended to improve team play at the average level, to inform the average team game player of the different options available to them in a team game that they would not normally get to know first hand because they don't have a regular ally to experiment with.
Why post tactics on high level play when they are not going to be able to pull them off since they don't have an in depth knowledge of the game in the first place. Chances are these are the kinds of players that are going to join your game and quit because they don't understand how you were able to so decisivly defeat their first batch of units, if you like games where the opponents quit that is good for you. I like to play the game to it's conclusion, that means I'm willing to give them the benefit of my knowledge if it will make them stay in the game and actually learn something.
The choice is yours, you have to learn the game mechanics to become a skilled player, if you think learning the bascis is mediocrity, they I guess your just not going to ever have skilled opponents to play, you may as well go find another game to run with.
You know you might actually get a sticky thread if you posted your own about play tactics in high level play, why don't you do that rather than change the course of this one?
You keep posting those great sekrets dude. It is this type of info that will benefit everyone, well almost everyone apparently. Super good stuff this. BTW, does the manual mention the PING thing anywhere?
14th Oct 04, 7:49 AM
Not that I noticed, however I still need to RTFM myself, all I read out of it was the initial fluff at the begining, hehehe.
I also do not remember seeing it in the strat guide which also has the incorrect information in it about infiltration.
14th Oct 04, 5:24 PM
Thanks for the tips Alpha_1. I have learned several things from the thread.
In some situations I can see the turret being an answer to base defense - especially early in a team game. Defending the base doesn't just mean killing things, it can also mean keeping people out of your base. If they stop trying to enter your base, because they're "advanced" players, they can't destroy things. Then your team can focus on another player's base and all the while be grabbing resources.
I know I'm not an "advanced" player. I only beat the computer on hard a bit more than half of the time. Last week I was just learning to win on standard difficulty. And I also know I can't micro units worth a damn. I know if my troops are getting beat up to pull them back and use terrain but I just can't make them "dance" like I see in a lot of these replays.
14th Oct 04, 10:52 PM
very informative thread, thanks! i didnt even know what the ping button did lmao. im asuch a noob
15th Oct 04, 5:45 AM
Nice thread Alpha_1, some good stuff in there.
Regarding ping, not it's not in the manual and neither is overwatch which is very irritating. I read the manual only to find out the nuances that wouldn't be immediatly obvious. I never looked at any of the buttons on the console that might do other stuff because in most RTS games they do pointless things that could be done better in a different way. Also, once I'd spent 5 minuutes memorising the shortcuts keys for everything I dtopped clicking the buttons anyway.
15th Oct 04, 9:07 AM
Ouch, that had to suck.
Here is a little tip for those of you using teamspeak. I get a crash when using teamspeak while the game loads if I am talking, or while a game loads (as in the 'waiting for players screen) to about 3/4 of the way if I am talking too, not a BSOD, it crashes so hard all I get is a plain blue screen. If I don't talk all is well, if I do during these 2 times I risk a crash.
Now on to my forgetful exclusion of overwatch (OW).
Sorry for those looking for a detailed explaination of overwatch, I had replied to so many threads describing it in them I thought I had added it here. Let me rectify that now.
Overwatch: the act of automatically building a unit, squad, weapon, or vehicle. Only units, squads, vehicles and weapons can be overwatched, you can not overwatch research, unit upgrades, or buildings (as in buildings NEEDING to be built).
Overwatch is initiated by right clicking on an overwatchable icon, for instance in the barracks if you right click on the troop build icon, it will slowly start to flash white to indicate it is on.
The way it works is that, everytime the build queue of the overwatched icon is empty, once you have the required req and power for the item on overwatch, the item is automatically added to the build queue and built.
For a building it will be a squad, a vehicle, heros, gods, or builders. For squads it will be additional units or weapons, seargents are not overwatchable, neither are exarcks, aspiring heros, or nobs. For vehicles any weapon upgrade is overwatchable.
Now some tips for overwatch.
Overwatch is a res eater, no two ways about it, use it intelligently and you can still build up as you fill out, use it wrong and you will get overwhealmed for not having res for other chores. There are 2 icons beside the minimap that need your attention with overwatch, one is green and one is red, both are small and are on the right side of the minimap. The green one is for pausing all overwatch, the red is for canceling all overwatch.
Pausing overwatch is important for you to build those LPs or buildings that need building to increase your war machine, either for tech increases or for survivability. Pause overwatch long enough for you to actually collect the res for building the required building, once started building unpause overwatch to continue to fill out your troops. While paused the green icon will remain yellow to indicate OW is on pause, there is no indication when using the red button, all OW is canceled so any item that had started building on OW will finish but no new OW items will start unless you re-enable OW on the item.
Something else to remember, when used in buildings OW will continue to function unless the cancel OW button is pushed, that means until the squad/vehicle pop is reached you will continue to get said items built, up to one item per building OVER your pop cap. That is if you have 4 barracks and all are on OW, each barracks will build 1 squad over your limit and have them waiting in the wings for you to clear the pop for the squads release. This is a good way to replace losses faster in a hard battle, you don't have to wait for the squad to build because it was already done, they pop out once you lose one of your squads in the field. The same exact thing applies to vehicles too, once the pop cap is reached you get one over the cap built and waiting in the queue for the pop to clear.
When used on a squad, OW will automatically shut off once the max number of units for the squad is reached, there is no way to restart OW when units are lost except manually, there is no OW restart so remember that when you start losing troops in a fight.
For vehicles, you WILL lose the vehicle before the weapon is lost so there is no rebuild weapon option on vehicles.
I think that is everything, I'll have a few more tidbits to add this weekend, they concern chain building of buildings.
15th Oct 04, 1:52 PM
The automatic cancelling of Overwatch once a unit/weapon limit hits max is one of my pet peeves. I hope they have an option to cancel that in an upcoming patch.
First, kudos on explaining ping & scuttle bonuses. I had just thought that Scuttle was only useful for quickly destroying unnecessary units/buildings. Knowing it gives you resources back will be useful in aiding my teammates if I'm defeated. "AVENGE ME!" As for ping, I always thought it just, well, pinged everyone. I should've guessed it had a strategic use by its placement on the control bar.
16th Oct 04, 11:45 AM
I agree to that too Mike Lemmer, to your first point I mean. Overwatch should still be active when you reach squad limits, so you'll always have the units you require.
17th Oct 04, 7:22 PM
Well this particular concept isn't going to happen often, especially in ranked 1v1 games but here you go.
Chain building is the act of queueing multiple buildings to be build one right after the other. I mainly use it when putting up power gens in team games but any building can be done in the same way.
First off you need the required requisition AND power for the buildings you want to build, second you need 1-X workers, doesn't matter how many you use they will all follow the orders, lastly you need a little free time, wouldn't want to lose a battle because you were setting up chain building.
Select the workers, hold down the shift key (that is the sekrit) and do a normal build, for the purposes of this example I'll use a barracks and 2 power relays. While holding shift select the barracks to be built, if that is the only one you want to build lay it then release shift, you should still have the workers selected but the build menu goes away, next while they build the barracks, press and hold shift again, now tell them to build 2 power gens, this time since you want 2 of the same thing built do NOT release shift, just lay one, wait for it to drop, then click for the next one to drop, once done dropping the buildings you want built just release shift and go on with whatever else needs doing.
This can be done with ANY building, including LPs and turrets, just make sure you have the req/power to build what it is you have to build.
The workers will finish whatever they are working on and move to the next building in line until all are done, this frees you for other things in the game.
Now lets go with chain commands. See you can use chaining with several unit types, now I haven't got the full range of what can/can't be chained but the most useful use of chain commanding is using your scout units to cap points. Select the unit, hold down shift and right click on each point you want them to take once they are done with the one they are working on. One side note though, I think you have to right click on the points in the main map not the minimap to get them to take the points.
Hope you find this useful.
20th Oct 04, 5:29 PM
@Alpha..... please ignore these, as you say, idiots. You are providing the community an invaluable service. As a player who does not have a lot of time to play, let alone practice and experiment, this info is helping people get up to speed. What most of these elitest idiots have seem to have forgotton is that they where noobs at one point or another.
It is as you said much more entertaining to play with people who are close to your level of compentece. But then again these are probally the type of people who drop or quit when face with some real competition.
Ones does not become a master until he teaches one to become a master. Thank you for the information you have provided.
21st Oct 04, 8:11 AM
Never have I seen so eloquently worded praise, I feel shamed for sinking to his level. Thank you for the encouragement and praise.
What I should have pointed out is that like me there are bound to be people out there that have never played RTS games outside of DoW. I have played HW games but they do not have any chained command functions associated with the shift key. Just because a few old games do have that function doesn't mean everyone and their brother has experienced them.
22nd Oct 04, 2:06 PM
Alpha ive learnt loads from this thread thanks a lot. However im also interested in other peoples points of view. Just because people dont agree with your own strategy doesn't mean they should post elsewhere or that their own tactics are in any way insuperiour to your own.
Before you type out a 20 line reply saying that i should go post on a different thread if i dont like it, i think this thread is brilliant, you should just allow other experienced player to share their own knowledge :D
Keep up the good work
23rd Oct 04, 11:49 PM
Franchise, your a brave man/girl. agreed.
Alpha_1, lovely stuff only arms out not up above
24th Oct 04, 8:45 PM
Well Franchise, the point of this thread is to improve team play, if the poster is providing information along those lines I have no problems with that, however when someone posts about 1v1 stuff, I have to wonder how that is going to affect the teamplay this thread is intended to promote.
I think it is best to separate team strategy from 1v1 strategy, after all what will work in a team game doesn't always work in 1v1 play and may infact get you a loss.
A good example of a 1v1 thread with good info is Perp's Nightly lessons learned.
25th Oct 04, 1:08 AM
I've deleted a couple of posts that did nothing to help the thread. This is a good, helpful, healthy discussion - let's keep it that way.
25th Oct 04, 2:09 AM
After your basic build is done and you know about the game nuances the topic of "how to attack" comes up. So assuming that in a 2v2 all players have a decent build, what do you feel the better attacking strategies are and why?
1) Rushing 1 player early
2) Rushing both players individually.
3) Swarming 1 player at a post-rush time.
(eg Reaper + FS + entangle + 3x HBolter + FC as soon as they are all built)
4) Expand and hold a central location. (Possible on Tartarus, Harder on SS because of the alleys to defend)
5) Harass vs tech?
Just curious to hear your opinions, they have been of use so far.
25th Oct 04, 9:26 AM
Dual-rushing one player works well for me, mainly because my game starts to crumble at the midtech point. However, I never focus solely on rushing to the detriment of capping req. points. Without resources, a rush is just a rush. With resources, it becomes an unending swarm of blood & violence beating on the doorstep of my enemies.
25th Oct 04, 9:45 AM
There are risks to dual rushing and attacking individual opponents one on one in team games:
In a dual rush, it's possible that your opponent will simply bunker down and try to stay alive and delay your forces, while his allies flank your forces and take out your base with little resistance. It's happened to me on a few occasions, and once it became a mad scramble to destroy their base before they destroyed ours.
In an individual rush, you can really only pull it off if your team gains the upper hand. In a 2v2, both players need to win the initial battle, if they dont, your opponents can then support each other. In a 3v3, 2 players need to win, 4v4, 3. The skill of the individual player is more important in this form of attack. As soon as one player falls, his opponent can then apply his military assets to another. Basically, team games are like dominoes. When the first domino falls, the rest fall in rapid sequence.
I find that the most reliable way to win the game is to seize the center (in most maps, especially the long narrow 3v3 map), and build up. Usually with the center, you'll have control of the strategic points, relics, and critical points associated with it, and will have more resources. Then when you're ready, just overwhelm your opponents. This is just what I've experienced in my games. My teammates that I play with most (Alpha being one of them), can attest that I play quite aggressively :P
26th Oct 04, 8:31 AM
Alpha, first let me apologise for what I said in one of the "f2" related threads a while ago. I was acting like a bit of an fool!
Extremely useful thread you've made here, there was quite a lot of stuff I knew already, but I have also learnt quite a lot, thanks!
One overwatch related feature which I have noticed that you need to be *very* careful with is the commander.
Overwatching your commander can be very useful if you are a few RP (or power!) short, however you need to be aware that once he starts building, there is no way to cancel him if you change your mind as once he starts building, the button greys out and you cannot cancel overwatch, yet overwatch stays active.
If you cancel building the commander, a new one starts building immediately (due to overwatch!), before you get a chance to turn off overwatch.
It's normally not a problem the first commander you build, however later in the game after you have lost the intial one it can be very annoying if you change your mind about what you want to build.
26th Oct 04, 8:32 AM
There's a cancel all overwatch button.
26th Oct 04, 8:39 AM
Yup, that's the only way around it, it is still worth bearing in mind due to time restraints, using the "Cancal All OW" button can waste you a large amount of time having to go around re-starting any overwatch you have set.
Also if you are changing your mind about building a second commander it often means you are losing squads, cancelling overwatch whilst squads are in combat is tanamount to suicide.
Trust me, it can be incredibly annoying, use this feature with care.
26th Oct 04, 11:26 AM
Sorry yes, it sounded like I was saying it isn't annoying. It sounds like a very irritating bug, but there's at least a way around it although not ideal.
26th Oct 04, 11:44 AM
No problem, not that I remember the incident but no biggy.
Actually just pause overwatch then cancel the commander build, you can then canel the commander build overwatch.
I do that all the time, it only happens with unique units, only the units you can build one of.
Now on to the 2v2 attack question.
As Murph so aptly put it there are problems each attack scenario can entail. I prefer to take a combined approach to the problem.
That is if you are on a map that has you side by side like Biffy's or saints, the best thing to do is meet in the center and attack one person from there, however do not commit all your forces to the task.
Leave 1 or 2 squads each in the center for re-enforcenment or to intercept that possible base attack the other guy may try to initiate. How many squads you leave in reserve should depend on how many you and your ally have in combination.
In an early rush you really don't even need to aim for taking out the chosen opponent, taking down points and destroying listening posts is a worth while goal all by itself. Denying the enemy points or req is a good thing, and if shared res is on you hurt the whole team not just the individual. Take out any buildings that are easy game but don't throw all your forces away just trying to take out one opponent.
It is hard to say exactly what you should do as each map and every situation is dynamic and different but my general rule is to take the points of contention as early as possible to force a reaction to my actions and not to have to react to the opponents actions.
Controlling the engagement is always best, however knowing how to combat any given situation is important also.
26th Oct 04, 9:52 PM
brilliant thread - everyone should be forced to read through this, the number of times we've had to struggle cos of a lame teammate is unreal. Nothing worse than a 3v3 with one of those "I'm gonna do it my way" idiots :fight:
28th Oct 04, 8:17 AM
Yes, it a brilliant topic... I hope the orc-buddy from my 3vs3 k-lutien game would read it... playing 3vs3 with take and hold and all he had was 1 slugga-squad, all he said was "squiggo"... how could someone tech on a relique unit in such a game...*wonder* ?
30th Oct 04, 10:27 AM
i ave a question alpha. you can help your team build. i play chaos and i was wondering if using forced labor works on an ally's buildings?
30th Oct 04, 11:53 AM
A wonderfully written and highly informative thread Alpha_1, many thanks. I hope you continue to share your experience and knowledge with the playerbase in order that we may all play more challenging and enjoyable games.
31st Oct 04, 9:25 PM
I'm sure it does, however the more total workers on a project the faster it builds, so forced labor may be overkill.
Thanks, and I will.
Alpha has previously stated, but it bears reiterating; if you start a building near your teammates base (like your HQ), you can have your teammate's builders finish it. We also do this with LPs, if we get busy and only cap stuff, we might start LPs and let our buds finish them up for us.
Alpha, any word on if they will have organized automatch play for clans in the upcoming patches? Or will they be allowing ranked created games?
1st Nov 04, 4:26 PM
yeah thanks for all the info alpha, didn't know bout overwatch.
Can u give basic setup for all races, as in the build lists i currently go
servitor build barracks, build scout, scout, servitor-build power gen, another servitor cap lp's build a squad of sm, works sometimes,
2nd Nov 04, 8:22 AM
Don't know why you think I have inside information on the patch, your here at the forums more than I, you will see any thread about it before me.
Okay, I'll post what I do as soon as I can compile the info for each race, I'll talk with my clan mates about their build orders to see what Ork and Chaos do as I only really know Sm and Eldar at the moment.
2nd Nov 04, 4:05 PM
if u can get all of them that's awesome so i can print it out and use, it but for now can u do sm, as that's what i play the most and am best at.
3rd Nov 04, 1:35 PM
Definately thanks for all of the information you have posted Alpha. I've read through this entire thread, and it's helped my game play. I'm still experementing on team play. I usually play 3vs3 and 4vs4. The problems I usually run into, and it's probably due to my inexperience is losing LP's (I play as Chaos). I may have one that im capturing when an enemy sends in and destroys my heretics when they cap. I tend to have about 3 squads of them but I don't reinforce them. When I run into the enemy: orks run up melee on me and tear me up, while SM and Eldar sit from a far and pick me off before I have time to get in combat with them.
Also, what are the types of upgrades you want to stay away from. I usually pick them on who im facing, melee upgrades vs eldar, or ranged vs ork.
I guess what i'm asking is how can I avoid losing my LP's and taking others out there without losing my squads?
4th Nov 04, 2:12 AM
Horrors. Deep striking plasma guns 5 per squad, with a 2-cap squad delimiter, can make minced meat. Also, if only one SM squad is shooting your cultists, back away, and go at them when they are trying to take your SP (ie squatting down).
4th Nov 04, 8:39 AM
I'm not yet playing with chaos enough to give you good answers to those questions, bioh@zard's responces are not possible so early in the game either. All I can suggest is instead of getting 3 heretic squads just get one to start and build 2 marine squads to help cap the points.
While I do not play chaos yet, I do know that with the initial money you can get 2 CSM and the CL without any LPs at all. Perhaps you need to get that out asap and forgo so many heretics.
As for taking down LPs, your CL and 2 squads of marins can take an LP down, having a spare squad of heretics around to then take the SP down would help. As marine I cap any enemy SPs I come across to make sure their economy is hurting. I'll take the LP down with the FC and marines then decap it with scouts, this keeps the marines available for a fight.
Since heretics are such crap units, you really need to keep them in the background when stronger forces are around, if not the money you spent on them is wasted. It is best to send marines in advance of them to engage the enemy units, then as the units fight your heretic can cap the point.
I can't really say what upgrades to avoid as I try to get all upgrades, however you should always get the upgrades your current troops will get the most benefit from first. That way your getting benefits from it as it completes.
When I start playing chaos I'll have a more indepth responce for you.
4th Nov 04, 11:49 AM
Well, the horrors can come pretty fast and are better shooting units than your average CSMs. It requires a pretty nasty build order, but can be done (see the possessed rush, only no reinforcing required and deep strike available).
Anyways, scout rushes are always harder to come out on top IMHO than the normal rush due to the 1 squad cap. The CL, when joined with a cultist squad, will do a pretty good job at taking out a FC - though I usually don't use him this way - and if you can get good at the force build you can pop out an armoury pretty fast. In 2 SMs vs 2 CSMs, you can win the day by going into CC with them. 10 CSMs will own 8 SMs in CC, not in shooting. Of course, F2 will ruin your day there...
Finally, cultists (in 1v1) can be used to make a very hard rush. Just not vs. Orks I believe. In multiplayer this will not be a very good idea, though. Still, giving them Nade launchers will give them some more value (in this case, especially vs. orks!)
One more thing: I usually put one Heretic on my barracks, force building, and use another to build one or two LPs with force build. This gives you a slight edge in reinforcing time (lord and marines are out faster) and in resources (you gain the LP addon to req. faster)
And a final note: play vs. the CPU with CSMs on insane, save the replay and see what gives. Mimicing the CPU will give you a pretty good build order, which you can elaborate on.
4th Nov 04, 1:02 PM
Well Bioh@zard thanks for the reply, those are good 1v1 points but how do they stack up in a team game? Remember this thread is about team play not 1v1 play, not everything used in 1v1 play works in team games and most of what works in team games will not work in 1v1 play.
Frankly rushing horrors isn't going to do your early economy any good, you can't cap points with horrors, you can only take LPs down with them, while destroying LPs will hurt the enemy taking the point ALL the way down is far more damaging. Besides are the horrors going to be out soon enough to help you cap the last of your points on any 2v2+ map out there? I see horrors as a early assault support unit, not as an early SP capping support unit.
Finally playing the CPU on insane will not teach you much, harder is better, only the insane CPU gets an income bonus, that means you can NEVER replicate what the insane CPU does. Not so for the harder CPU, you can copy it adnausium.
5th Nov 04, 9:22 AM
Now on to White DragonZ's request.
Keep in mind that each map will require a slightly different start for optimum team play.
My normal build is:
AFTER I select that stuff the worker starts the barracks. I find it more important to get to that first SP as soon as possible and the 1-2 second lag where you tell the worker to build the barracks can make a big difference in getting the first SP up.
At the barracks I'll queue the FC and not queue the first marine squad til after the commander is 3/4s to 4/5ths done.
Reason for not queueing is that the 200 can be used to build LPs and/or a power gen at the start.
Keeping in mind that on 3v3 and 4v4 games I'm normally the one on an end so i do not build the power first, I get LPs on my points closest to the enemy so they can't decap my points before I can kill them. Each LP done gets me a +6 and 50 req back so it is worth it to wait on queueing the first marine squad.
Here is a little tip for you, while you have the HQ selected hit the 'Y' key (set waypoint) then place the waypoint over the CLOSEST SP, what this does is have your first squad IMMEDIATLY head to and AUTOMATICALLY cap that first point. Once each unit is built just reset the waypoint to the next thing to be built. If it is a worker set the waypoint to a building that is going up, if another scout set it to the next SP to be captured. This will ease your start a little by making the capping of the first few points more automatic.
Depending on the map I will waypoint the barracks close to the first point of contention, this will have troops at the location I expect to come under attack without me having to tell them to go there.
I play with shared resources too, that is another factor to consider, if you are in a game where it is off you will need to get your own power gen up asap in order to help you along. I usually make the LP I will expect to see battle over one with a gun, this way I have one more gun helping out in the battle, the extra req doesn't hurt either, lol.
As soon as you reach your initial pop cap for troops (perp's infamous 10/10) you have a choice, get more troops or get the armory. If the fighting is heavy I get the armory, that way I deal more damage for the little I have. This also allows me to get to level 1 asap if need be. A few heavy bolters on vanilla troops can really easy the strain.
I play the rest by ear, it depends on how good my ally supports me and how offensive the opponent I face is, once you have played for a while you will be able to judge the flow of the battle from here yourself.
As I said each map is different and will require a little different start, some maps will have you not see contact til after you have the commander and 1-2 squads out, some will have you on the offensive/defensive imeadiatly. Take each map into consideration.
Tell ya'll what, I'll get graphics of each map over the next few weeks and go through how I set up for each map and also point out terrain features. This will help you better understand the team play maps out there.
7th Nov 04, 6:37 AM
Tell ya'll what, I'll get graphics of each map over the next few weeks and go through how I set up for each map and also point out terrain features. This will help you better understand the team play maps out there. I already have:
7th Nov 04, 4:49 PM
thanks alpha =)
7th Nov 04, 9:33 PM
When you're sending your squad out to cap SP's, do you go furthest out and work yourself in? Say on Kasyr Lutien do you cap the CP first with your first squad so you have a chance to counter an enemy trying to decap you? Or do you work in your area first then push out to the further points on the map.
7th Nov 04, 9:39 PM
Always send the first 1-2 squads to cap the closer spots, you want req coming in as soon as possible. If you work from the outside in you run the risk of losing points to the enemy because you don't have the req to get an LP up on the further points.
The only exception to that rule is if you are in a 2v2 and on a map where you have to fight for center spots, like SSq, BP, or TC.
8th Nov 04, 4:39 AM
i just noticed something alpha, 3 squads of scouts, but that makes only 2 of sm later and ends with 9/10, do u go another scout or servitor?
8th Nov 04, 5:53 AM
Well i just read 6 pages of this and i like what im reading Good job Alpha_1 i learned alot from it, keep up the good work, im a mainly a SM or CSM player, i tried the other races there ok orks are fun eldar i know like just cant get hang of them my friend played them for 2 weeks and hes good, beats me alot, but with eldar it was like 1 win him 9 wins me and his win was first one when i wasnt ready, so i think we need some good Eldar help anyone in your clan play them ?, thanks i will kep your thread watch for more info.
8th Nov 04, 3:42 PM
Well dragon, by that time I am getting the next pop level or am on the way to level 1 anyway. As I said I'm the one on the end so I don't need more marines than scouts, especially once I get snipers.
I will generally end up with 4 workers until level 2 where I will kill off 2 so I can get some termies.
8th Nov 04, 4:13 PM
thats a good point, what's ur view on termies for strat, and the less used types,
am's, ls's,transport, and the commander(for me i use them at the start when everyone has basic troops but then keep them in the base once i reach tier 2, unless i want to win the game then i usually send everything.)
that reminds me, can u post about sercuring the win(when u should send your attack troops, and usually what u would send, and of course ur deep strike strats.
8th Nov 04, 7:08 PM
Great infor Alpha. Thanks for taking the time to write this!
8th Nov 04, 9:35 PM
Hey Alpha, do you have any replays of you playing for 1.1? Also, how does your strat change in BO if you aren't on the outside closest to the enemy. What if you are say in middle on KL, or middle position in lost hope?
Secondly, on team play, do you usually stay in 1 for a while and amass a scout +SM + AM or do you tech quicker to 2 so you can get LS, Dreds, and Terms?
10th Nov 04, 11:56 AM
I don't have many replays of 1.1 play because I don't have a lot of time for play, plus I only keep good replays most of which will be 3v3 and 4v4 games when I have them.
Nothing was good about the 2 games perp is going to post. I let my anger at his betrayal cloud my playing, I should not have bothered playing the games, but was too pissed at him to walk away. You can however look at his and his allies' play to see good team play.
11th Nov 04, 11:38 AM
Yes I did, however my PC is disassembled at this time due to home improvements, so I have had little time to respond to your PM.
I should be back online by next week.
14th Nov 04, 8:53 PM
oh man, I will follow this guide religiously...
21st Nov 04, 9:16 PM
Now to start the map descriptions. First up is biffy's peril.
Above you will notice 1,2,3, and 4 in white, these are the standard start locations, the spots are on inclines and above the battle field, though this does not add any kind of advantage.
In yellow the spots marked as 1 are your and your allies spots that will be closest to the enemy, and thus the ones most likely to be attacked first.
Spots 2 in yellow are the relics that are between you and the enemy, one of them is yours the other is the enemies, the problem lies in which one you and the enemy will fight over.
Spot 3 is the critical on the map and even if you do not play T&H you should try to get it, it's FoV allows you to have early warning on attacks comming from the enemy. Don't make it your first point to take but try to take it as soon as feasably possible.
Spots 4 in yellow are the SPs belonging to the enemy that are closest to you and your ally, if you have troops standing near your SPs at Y1 they can actually reach the points if they have rockets and destroy them.
You will notice that there are large craters at the foot of each base, make sure you use that cover when defending OR attacking, it is vital when facing equal numbers of similar troops, you want all the extra help you can get.
One last point to notice is that there are 4 slag heaps between the 4 start spots, it is usually safe to build a thermal on the one between you and your ally. However, there is one point you need to consider. The area beside the heaps can give a tier 3 SM or CSM a view of your base to drop troops directly into your base, keep that in mind when turtling up happens.
Biffy's is a pretty straight forward map, not much in the way of features or specials, I'll add more maps as I finish the detailing.
21st Nov 04, 11:41 PM
Also note that due to the cover, the critical point in the middle can become No Man's Land late in the game, with everyone holing up in the craters and anyone venturing out into the middle getting ventilated. Be sure you know how to crack a turtler; it will come in handy if a stalemate begins.
23rd Nov 04, 4:29 PM
Hey Alpha, do u want help with the maps?
ill be glad to help urs as u are helping with mine.
24th Nov 04, 9:33 AM
It's okay, I just don't have a lot of time to devote soley to this game, I am working on my MCSE so I spend less time here than I used to.
11th Dec 04, 2:16 PM
Now for more maps.
Spots 1-4 in white are the start locations for the players, each spot has 3 SPs in close proximity with each corner having a relic and anothe SP. Criticals line up the center and 2 slag heaps are in the center as well.
Spots 1 and 2 in red are the relic and strat points that each team will have to compette for. I would advise any team share the SP/relic between them, one take the relic and one get the SP. This gives you an equal number of req points. Then you can choose which corner (or take both) to attack to get a relic for the team mate that is lacking one. A special note, there are walls separating the relic and SPs so unless you have troops that can jump you will have to go around to get to the other point, plus you can use is as a means to prevent CC units from getting into CC with your troops.
Spot 3 in red denotes the middle critical in the center of the map. Stairs lead up to it and slow down troops trying to get up it. It is surrounded by heavy cover craters that make it easy to get ranged troops in on the attack while sheilding them from return fire. The FoV the crit provides allows you to see the other 2 crits and if they are being taken and will let you see any troops heading in on you.
The center platform which holds the 2 slag heaps and 3 crits is also on raise terrain, this means the troops slow down climbing it and the fact each corner is an obstical, makes it so you have to go over or around to flank anyone set up on the platform. While higher ground is not a balistic advantage it is still a tacticale one.
12th Dec 04, 9:26 AM
Now for more maps.
Spots 1-4 in white are the start locations for the players, each is a small canyon all it's own. The channels make it hard to move 2 armies through them for attacks and bunch up troops for great artillery attacks.
Spots 1 and 2 in red are the relic and strat points that each team will have to share. If res sharing is on it doesn't matter if one ally gets both but if it is off it is really important for you to share the points with your ally. Who ever takes the relic should leave the strat point for the other giving each member of the team 4 points for req intake.
Spot 3 in red denotes the one critical and SP in the center of the map. I'd say it is far more important for the team in spots 3 and 4 to have the critical because the critical allows viewing of spot 3's main base, making deep strikes really easy to do even if no scouts are in the back field. The players on team 3 and 4 really need to keep the crit on their side to prevent the FoW from being exposed on spot 3.
Spot 4 in red denotes the point at which the critical will allow viewing, it is a small wall allowing for jumping troops of any type over it to attack inside or outside the spot 3 base. If you don't think about it or don't know about it you can lose a lot of buildings because you were not ready for an attack from there. Conversely it makes a good spot to jump troops over to take the crit down or to attack troops trying for the crit.
Spot 1 in yellow denotes the spot a marine player should send scouts to allow for dropping troops into the back field. Most people do not think to look back there for scouts and will sit and turtle with turrets to prevent an easy access to their base. If you happen to sneak scouts back there at the start of the game you will have a way in to their base that is usually undefended. Keep that in mind wheather you are in spots 1-2 or 3-4, it can win you the game.
Simple amazing thread Alpha. You dont get even close the credit you deserve for it.
Learned quite a bit myself and will try to pass the wisdom on. :)
14th Dec 04, 9:22 AM
I have a question about when it's a BAD idea to stay and fight.
Basically, in team games either everything is fne or I get abuse, and the abuse is over this particular point.
For example, a 2v2v2v2 game I got CSM rushed dead early. I had taken a bit of a gamble and hoofed my scouts out the door capping other points (big map), waiting for a marine squad to pop up. Anyawy, the rusher arrives, and there's NO Way I'm gona save my base.
An ally comes to help, Brilliant. He can hold them off long enough for me to spit out a couple of builders, a couple of SM squads and hoof it over to his base to get a new HQ up etc.. - or so I thought, becasue we just simply ere not going to win the fight.
But, nooo. Ally sees my 2 servs and MS beetling over to his base and he doesnt like it. Has a go at me, call me a newb, lots of things. So, I do what he says send my MS to the fight, get my servs to repair whats left of the CB and HQ. 2 mins later my game's over, he retreats to his base, without me able to help him at all any more. He thinks Ive quit and I get to see him slagging me off to the other team in the chat logs. I never quit, I like to watch ;P
I think I was right to fall back and fight another day, rather than just keep pumping in units that are pointless to a battle 'cos your ally is screaming at you.
And they wont listen to any rational explanation either.
Anyone else agree?
14th Dec 04, 3:43 PM
Thanks for the tips...
Just one silly question...
I played Homeworld and Cataclysm... Loved them both...
Is Home world 2 any better ? what is good about it ?
Also is your portrate from HW2 ?
And how do you like it ?
Im thinking of getting it, but if its the same as the first two... Then i might wait till the price drops a bit, becuase i have played so much of it... Anyway... what are the good new features if any ?
16th Dec 04, 12:19 PM
You had the dreaded NAS (nOOb ally syndrom), your idea to relocate was a valid AND plausable strategy to stay in the game. If your ally had any sense at all he would have realised that. Just one thing though, if you had the req to rebuild your HQ you could have dropped it anywhere there was a clear area in the fog of war. You didn't need to send workers off right away, you could have told them to build it anywhere you wanted then had your ally finish it (in this case you were SOL). You were displaying an advanced team play tecnique and had a nOOb ally that doesn't understand the game mechanics. Just avoid having him for an ally in the furture.
BTW what is MS supposed to stand for?
While HW2 was a nice game it didn't have the online appeal that HW and HW:C had in their hayday. If you want to continue the story by all means get it, just make sure you get the patch before playing it in SP as the dynamic difficulty can be a bit high for many players, the pathc toned it down a bit.
Thanks for the good words, I'll be adding more map details as I finish detailing the maps for team play, keep an eye out.
5th Jan 05, 3:54 AM
hmm going back to original topic (ignoring the maps for a minute).......
I am quite annoyed at you being attacked by 2 (or 3) enemies at once you CAPS LOCK for help and being told to quote STFU (with full spelling :) ) an d of course the obligatory you are a nub (nub yep that is how it was spelled) comment.
One thing I noticed in team games, you either rush 1 enemy base or yuo defend 1 of your bases. At the beginning you have too few units to go charging into enemy base independently.
Now with an advanced (2 star yeah :argh: ) player like me you could just go do some mischief by yourself in an enemy base....but you MUST be sure that your allies can hold the enemy otherwise it is not worth it.
Then just play with allies you know good enough to be sure about that.
...2 Star isn't advanced...
Anyone who plays the game on the fly and takes any allies that show up and can maintain a 2 Star rating may not be advanced but I can assure you they are a competent player.
With the amount of drops and lag outs, those that play only random games, stay to fight, even the ones that they surely have little chance of winning, are the best players in my mind.
Always playing with friends/Clan mates, all competent players surely, who always Rush as a group is great but is it truly difficult? It gets ya stars but seems kinda repetitive to me.
Imo, the best game are the ones where 2 or 3 random players meet 2-3 other random players, both teams have a mix of talent and the fight is decided by players communicating and dealing with the unknown. A new player who won't leave home until there grand army is built only to show up late with max troops and claim they won the fight. Of course if their allies don't survive the long build process, they call them noobs and then drop. God I love that one. :werd:
If I wanted alot of Stars *****, it is too easily done. Get a friend, lock a room and set the AI to easy and player 30 games in a row. Stars galore, but don't leave that room if want to keep them. ;)
For myself it is the thrill of the tough battle that I am after.
Learning to be a Team player is just as much Fun as winning if that learning leads to more solidly played battles, of which more then turn into possible victories.
P.S. It also depends to on how many beers you had... :argh: :D
5th Jan 05, 12:24 PM
hehe thanks for your support.
Yes I do play random and usually I get a dropper in 1 out of 3 games.
Sometimes they are just idiots but somietimes it is connection problems. nothing you can do :/
5th Jan 05, 1:03 PM
Well it is getting to the point that you don't know what to expect in the random game, I do play them when clanmates are not on but I prefer being able to talk to my ally without typing. I can't actually type, I have to look at the keyboard as I am doing now.
Doing so detracts from my game, which means in the random game I communicate less. If you are a skilled player and have weak allies, all you can do is the best you can. Which may mean not getting help in time, having to fight 2/3/4 v 1 and so on.
Until the newer players find out about this forum and this thread a lot of knowledge is not known and a lot of drops are bound to happen. Try and get in with a clan or start your own, then you will have a better game experience.
2nd Feb 05, 12:53 AM
Yesterday's session prompted me to write some comments. I am not a very good player since I have a tendency to make a huge blunder in the mid game. But I am working on that.
What really sets good TEAM players apart from the bad is communication. If you can clearly see that you are better player than the others then GIVE THEM ADVICE. If you see that you are worse than somebody else then please ASK. AND IF SOMEBODY ASKS, RESPOND. If you have a clear strategy TELL ABOUT IT.
One game yesterday was a perfect example of this. Game was 3vs3 on that map that is basically a direct pipe with teams at the each end (I don't remember the name). I realize now that I was playing quite stupid being the middle guy and trying to lead the attack when I should have supported others. Both my team mates just stood there silently (I understand this when they are fighting, but when they idle?); no pings, no comments, nothing. Then when enemy rolled over us (I was the second defeated) the last guy types: "lol, n00b allies". :rolleyes: If you are that much better then help others...
Second example was also 3vs3 where I was rushed by entire enemy team. One of our team mates never responded to any comments and didn't do much else either. So, it was basically 2 vs 3 and result was quite predictable. If you have problems at least let the others know.
I would also like emphasize the point made already in the original(?) post. Starting positions can be broken down to two basic types; frontline and support. Frontline positions are usually flanks and of course forward positions. If you aren't in frontline then send troops to support others. Worst thing you can do is turtling.
Last thing: Has anyone else noticed that in team games the team 1 (first ones to join the game) is usually better than the second? Is it just me or is this somekind of a trend?
3rd Feb 05, 8:16 PM
the team 1 phenom.....well you figure that that the organizer of the game invites all his buddies/budettes in, and they go vs random guys.
now having said that it is always fun to go team 2 and beat the crap out of a clan/ team 1 posse. heh.
10th Feb 05, 2:00 PM
Heck yeah timotheus! Me and my two star brethren know how it is. Don't let people judge you by your stars they arn't the law on who is good or bad.
Anyway let my contribute. The thing I noticed the most in team games is turrets. Don't build them if you don't need them. The turrets aren't to save my base from being destroyed when they attack me. If I die then you die as well. Unless your in the opponent's base destroying his buildings then there is no reason not to help me out.
Also on Quatra, personally I think it needs to be fixed. I like the idea of the map but starting point 3 is at a large disadvantage. The enemy can jump or teleport right in the back of his/her base. If you're team 2 then you want to keep the middle map to help stop this but if you can't then put up a turret and keep a squad in your base for support. Either way you're in for a tough fight.
27th Feb 05, 12:17 AM
The main reason I think that team 1 seems to be better is that most beginners don't open up a game by themselves but rather join an existing one - I found out that I win far more games on team 1 and I join random games only.
12th Mar 05, 2:59 PM
wow i just read 8 pages
and it was great thanks alpha :beer:
If everybody lived up to that idea like you do, there would'nt be a problem. But hardly one noob does what you ask him.
When the game is on shared resources and 1 player doesn't build his Listening Posts the others suffer greatly. I just played a game yesterday where 3 of 4 players on the team kept telling the noob on the team to build his listening posts and upgrade them. He wouldn't do so and kept asking why he should. Since the map was Penal Colony which already has very few SP's it hurts even more.
It ended up in one teammmate taklng down his SP. But you can't take down an ally's relic so we still suffered from there. No use to mention we lacked overall resources and finally lost.
Such a loss is completely unnecessary.
yeah, really annoying. But I think many clans now write it in their game name that they want a challenge. But it still happens that you get put down by buddies who even pretend not to know each other, but as soon as every1 is in the game change teams to 8 without typing a word in the chatbox. Guess who's connected by teamspeak or skype?
14th Mar 05, 7:20 AM
very helpful and descriptive!
Thnx Alpha :bandit:
21st Mar 05, 4:17 AM
I also find that some players don't want to communicate or heed any advice. I've played about 50 games so I am hardly the foremost authority on Dawn of War but I've learnt enough through several heavy defeats and also some good advice from better team players that you have to help each other.
I recently played a 3v3 game in which my two team mates just watched while all 3 enemy armies attacked me at once even though I asked twice for help. During this time they had hardly built any marines (all were using sm's) or any dreads. It was only because I managed to build a stronghold in one of their bases that I survived.
I then asked one of team mates to send out scouts to see what the enemy was doing as they controlled virtually the whole map (all 3 of us were now in one base) and he said "no way" because he didn't want to lose any men.
For me this just spoilt the whole game.
23rd Mar 05, 6:07 AM
In my Country (Poland, in Central Europe) This type of player called "He Defend like wild pig (a lot of Heavy bolters, zero Marines, some Wirlwinds) and has his allies deeply in his a**"
I always help for my Allies even if i lose all my army. It's just a game!
23rd Mar 05, 8:41 PM
One game of 3v3 all I had left was 2 squads of PSM, 1 generator, and one capped point. I also owned a critical location which the enemy never took for some reason.
I maanged to recapture another of the critical locations, tyhen draw a decent chunk of enemy forces into a massive eldar turret blockade that was set up in the middle of the map to prevent counter attacks. After reinforcing my troops and mopping up the enemy infantry that surived the turrets I suicided my guys into a nice thick line of SM turrets and busted a hole in em, just as the enemy found my generator.
Fighting to the last man is so much more fun than dropping.
29th Mar 05, 2:34 PM
Hey everybody, lookee here it's my first post.
Just a quick note to express my thanks for this thread. Having people around who are prepared to share some actual working tactics means that if or when I finally get online to play some team games I might not suck quite so badly...
Look forward to seeing some of you online...although I have to learn how to play as more than just Marines first...
8th Apr 05, 10:07 AM
Exelent thread people, it will be use full to any one who reads it. Keep up the good work
On another note
I for one enjoy being teamed up with a new player, It makes for a far more intresting game and if we win it feels so much more satisfying. There is nothing better then beating two clan members with a rookie ally, it just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
I hate people who drop as soon as they realize that one of their allies is a noob. I have played atleast 5 games were one of the players on my team has got their first win ever. I enjoy helping people learn to play better and from now on i am going to recommed this sit to every new player I team up with
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.0 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.