Corruption need to be looked at and a few other things reguarding Chaos.

[yeeek]

Corruption the spell available to the Chaos sorcerer need a big boost. Upgrade available at Tier 3 is just a joke.

Try it for yourself and tell me why you should use it, it does really little to no damage at all in the area of effect.

I am not looking for something close to Orbitale Strike like the Space Marine, Force Commander also available at Tier 3 if you have an orbital relay. However i think for a Tier 3 spell it should cause more damage over time than it is now. I'll be honest its useless, imho.

Also when i look at chain of tourment wich is basically like entangle of warlocks for the Eldar need either to have a faster cool down or just fix Eldar's entangle wich last way too long for an ability available so early in the Eldar tech tree. While for chaos only one unit can use it, chaos sorcerer.

It is my understanding that a commander's spell should be more powerfull than a squad leader skill like the warlock's entangle.

Imho, the time entangle last should be cut down in half, and let chain of tourment the way it is. Or perhaps entangle should last very few secs on commander units or squads with a commander attached to them?




Also i fail to see what is the advantage of furious charge skill, availabe at chaos armory. If someone can tell how it works?




Last thing, Obliterators. Their cost 80/25, indeed thats VERY cheap for a tier 3 units but don't be mistaken. If they are that cheap its because they are useless.

First off, they are requisitioned (sp?) from the daemon pit, but yet their armor rating is heavy infentry. Whats up with that. I assume they should be deamon like, just look at them by the way.. Do some test, Obliterator squad vs Tact. SM squad upgraded with plsama guns (chaos SM squad will do aswell), shoota upgraded with anti Heavy infentry weapons or better yet, dark reapers. Do these duel test and come back here tell who wins.

Yes, they are only 80/25 while a SM squad is 200. My point is not there, my point is for a Tier 3 units they are very weak. Now, if they were costing 280/25 and 80 to reinforce as long they have deamon armor rating i would be happy with it. Or even more costly, look at the possessed space marines their cost is worth it.

They are just too weak for a tier 3 unit, on top of that you need a relic for them, so again i fail to see their use. edit - they also cost 4 in the squad cap.


Other than these few issue, i'm happy so far with Chaos and enjoy playing them. But like a lot other stuff, Eldar to name it, i hope relic's staff fix them but also look at the other race weakness/imbalance.

Now i know not everyone will agree with me, and i can understand it.

[Navaros]

i agree with all of this, most especially:

nerf Eldar's entangle, it's way overpowered and totally unfair

fix Chaos Sorcerer's very sad version of entangle by upping it's effectiveness and reducing it's cooldown

two things i'd add: make it so that Chaos Lord can get his HP back in less than 10-minutes of real time (around how long it takes now, if not longer...)...2 minutes or something like that would be a lot more fair

change Cultists to take only 1 cap

[BeHe]

Hey yeeek, i did already post about corruption, not sure if a relic bod has seen the bug involved with it aswell: if you actually target a unit with corruption the spell does not activate properly, it has to be targeted on the ground currently to work and then as you say its bloody pathetic.

I dont see why obliterators come from the pit, surely they should come from the barracks once relic is capped ala marines? seems alot of expense/time for an average combat unit.

[Rchen]

erm... erm... yea... interersting post...
I haven't been playing the game for long and this is my first post on relic forums but I've been snooping around for quiet a while.
I don't play CSM so I can't comment about the Sorcerer ability changes however, I can comment about oblits.
Firstly, an armour change of oblits from Heavy Infantry to deamon armour would not improve thier chances against plasma... in fact, it'll be detrimental, for reference:
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=40785
You'll notice atm, they're classified "Heavy Infantry High" at which plasmas do 28.24 per hit.
Changing them to "monster medium (Horrors, PSM, etc.)" would mean that Plasmas do 37.33 per hit, increasing the amount of damage taken.
You could change them to "monster high" but that's Bloodthirster/Avatar Armour... even for tier 3, obits shouldn't be that strong...
Oh and btw, for comparison with SM:
Termies are tier 3
Termies cost 340/100
A lot of people complain of Termie's morale (although personally, if you use them properly or attach them to FC/Lib, etc. that shouldn't be a big issue).
I get the feeling alot of SM players will have something to say about your oblit buffs :smash:

[supabeast]

Explanation of furious charge skill: Furious charge gives your units the "berserk" ability which makes chaos troops much better at melee, and it also appears to make them charge the nearest enemy unit. It's wonderful for clearing out large batches of Orks and Eldar quickly, and it will give chaos troops a greater advantage against regular space marines. Use it with raptors and you get a very mobile, very vicious killing force that can be anywhere almost immediately.

[BeHe]

Explanation of furious charge skill: Furious charge gives your units the "berserk" ability which makes chaos troops much better at melee

Nope, an aspiring champion gives a unit the beserk ability.
Furious charge gives marines and cultists (raptors? im not sure, cant remember) a speed boost when charging into melee combat, it also increases their damage for a while after the initial charge i believe.

[Lars]

I totally agree about the Sorcerer spells. and that cultists should be cap 1 and that oblits should be buffed. In TT oblits are much better than terminators, but that is not my observation of them in DoW.


Furious charge gives marines and cultists (raptors? im not sure, cant remember) a speed boost when charging into melee combat, it also increases their damage for a while after the initial charge i believe.
Yeah, thats right.

[TheLoneKnight]

..*blink* Uh..Corruption isn't a spell designed to inflict damage..you DO know that..don't you? O_o

What corruption does is literally "corrupts" the ground beneath your enemies and yourself. What does this mean, you ask? Well, do you notice that inside your base the ground tends to get cracked and charred, and wisps of energy sometimes puff out? Well, that's corruption. What does it mean to you? Well, it gives your units a morale boost & a regeneration rate, (Not too certain about the regen), and it gives your enemies a severe morale negation. In other words, a normal bullet that does 0.5 morale damage will now be doing closer to 1.0 or 1.5. In other words..use corruption at the start of a large battle..and your enemy will have no morale whatsoever.

I personally find corruption quite effective.


As for obliterators..they're cheap because you only get ONE to begin with. The 80/25 is the cost of EACH Obliterator. Perhaps you haven't noticed yet, but squads are generally priced at the sum of their members. 4 marines at 50 requisition each = 200. Thus we have our squad costs. And on another note.. have you SEEN a couple of squads of Obliterators supporting Chaos Marines? They're like Dreadnoughts at less than a quarter of the price(and hp), but so long as no one shoots at them..well.. See for yourself. Their teleporting ability makes it easier to evade incoming fire, too. The only thing truly hampering Obliterators right now is the achingly slow reinforcement rate.. ^^;

If Relic could cut that down a bit, I'd be more than happy for it.


Regarding Chain of Torment, though, you seem to think it is absolutely useless, because the Eldar get it en-masse. I agree that the Eldar entangle spell is a bit..well.. annoying..to say the least.. But think of it this way: Chaos Sorceror is the only unit outside of the Eldar race that can instantly stop a squad. Very useful for butchering heros trying to escape the battlefield. But is it automatically stupid and weak because the Eldar get it better? No. The Eldar, for instance, have some of the weakest(overall) units in the game, all of whom have absolutely no versatility whatsoever. Not only that, but they get only one hero, and she isn't exactly spectacular at melee. The only thing truly going for the Eldar at the moment is, if you can micromanage them fast enough, they have dozens of great bonuses over the other races, which makes them a deadly contender. Chaos, on the other hand..even their sorceror is handy in melee. And unlike those pesky warlocks, he's quite a bit tougher to take down, and has his own bundle of spells. Not to mention he teleports.

Of course, with Chaos, only a minimal amount of micromanagement is required to use them well. Just send your men into combat-- they've got the ranged prowess of Space Marines coupled with much higher melee damage. And better numbers, too.

Eldar are fragile, have low morale, and require often extensive amounts of micromanagement in order to use them properly. Not for everyone, I understand, but Relic is of course trying to keep the races as differentiated as possible. Balancing Chaos to be just as effective as Eldar without the micromanagement would be like Scout Marines having lascannons..or Grotz with Big Shootaz.. ^^;

[tehhelios]

well they got powerfists and terminator armor, i just dont understand why they die so fast. could use a buff in hp.

Teleporting them near a tank and attack in cc should be a viable tactic, atm its not.

[Raith]

Oblitz need slightly larger squads and a hp and damage buff. Up the cost for all I care.

[Brannigans_Law]

Obliterators are daemonic heavy infantry :) I think they are well balanced as is.

[Evan_gelion]

It's a shame you don't agree with a word Lone Knight says (assuming you bothered to read it, what with the 'blahblahblah' and all) ; he's got the most thoughtful entry out of this bunch. I also found it particularly troublesome that you didn't bother to address why--but I'm sorry he was too wordy for you, really. Might have picked a pointer or two. I whole-heartedly agree with him ESPECIALLY on the hidden power of Oblits (my belief being people tend to rely on them once they're out to get the job done by themself. >_<) and on just what makes the Eldar a tricky race. Yeah, Entangle's powerful and they get it a lot, and Chaos doesn't... but Chaos gets plenty of other tricks.

I'm gonna actually play around with corruption now that he brought that up--I haven't tried to use it for that yet, personally (than again my micro is abhorrent; I hardly even use Sorceror's unless I remember them).

[Lars]

I believe corruption deals damage too. Because it states that it will hurt your own troops if they are in the area of effect.

[First And Only]

Corruption is an area effect spell that deals normal and morale damage to units standing on it. It takes a certain amount of time for it to make a dent, but it primarily does morale damage rather than physical. I'm not so certain how useful it is, though. In a bigger skirmish, I can see it being somewhat handy.

[TheLoneKnight]

Eh? It might deal a bit of damage, but that's not the point of it. The point of Corruption is to create a large patch of terrain that literally sucks the morale right out of your enemies. It can break evn Space Marines quite quickly. And because it gives your own units a boost, I use it on my own units all the time. I've never noticed any damage whatsoever.

The only Chaos spell I can think of that might damage your own units is the Chaos Lord's first spell, (which, for the life of me, I cannot remember the name.. -_-; ), and that one -is- AoE, and it -does- inflict quite a bit of damage.. so.. what's your arguement?

Of course, even in large-scale skirmish games it'd be quite useful. When the first major battle begins, all you have to do is get 2-3 Sorcs together and cast corruption across the entire battle line. I assure you that once their entire front line has broken..they'll be a little hestitant to continue fighting. =P