Nemesis force weapon hits last or?

[Soulrender]

Does nemesis force weapons hit after the enemy in close combat? Like the power fists, or do they just give +2 strenght?? And what does it mean that when grand masters use it, it becomes a power weapon and a force weapon???

[-_Phoenix_-]

Its pretty simple TBH. When GKs use nemesis weapons its effects depend on the user. All users add +2 strength in close combat. For justicars (GK power armour sergeants) and GK terminators it also counts as a power weapon. For grand masters it counts as a force weapon.

Nowhere does it mention anything about it effecting iniative order.

[Sir Guppy]

a nemisis force weapon gives +2 strength and you strike in Initaitive(sp?) order (nasty i know) a grand master gains the effects of +2S, a power weapon and a force weapon(which often includes the power weapon effect anyway)

so ur grand master will be striking at S6, in initaitive order, allowing no armour saves, if he wounds an enemy with more than one wound, he can then try and kill them outright with the force weapon.

[Soulrender]

Thanks alot for the answers! I really appreciate that some of you responded so early, i had decided to play normal marines with the new traits and etc. but when i went to the store today i really got hooked up to the deamonhunters....so now im in middle of a crisis because i cant choose which army to pick, this is also an economical question, because i really cant afford to buy two armies, ive got to choose one

[Sir Guppy]

if you choose deamon hunters you will end up with a very very hard force of elite tough nuts, but some of the models are quite expensive.

marines you get more choice of troops, models are cheaper (although you will probally end up buying more) and they have a brand new shiny codex coming out soon which is always nice.

[ThirdDanScoota]

If they did strike last, i think i would be getting rid of them. You dont have the Codex do you? I mean its fine, but if you did it says pretty clearly of how they work.

[Soulrender]

I was thinking of combining deamon hunters with a devastator squad as allies, but they got a deamonic infestation special rule??? I dont really understand what it does, but it seems like a great disadvantage, and well since the space marines are getting the new codex soon, they do actually become pretty attractive, not to mention those trait combinations :beer: But those Grey knights are shiny and all =(, and alot of their special rules benefits them, and really the special rules do make them quite worth it for 25 points each, ofcourse they do need something to smash vehicles except the WAY TOO AWESOME dreadnought they got! :sam: thats why i was thinking of devastator squad and maybe imperial guards, i just can´t decide hehe between ordinary cool space marines, or those chaos busting geeks.....

[Soulrender]

Okay guys ive made my decision, since i cannot stand inquisitors, and i CANT WAIT TO TRY THE NEW ASSAULT CANNONS, BWAHAHAHA, i will go for the space marines! :D

[Sir Guppy]

get a terminator sqaud with 2. 8 shots Bs4 S6 Ap3 Rending, thats nasty.

[Soulrender]

which weapons do that?? I guess for auto cannons :P, but every time i read about terminators, people say they cost too much and die too easy, so i dont really like terminators =(, if i wanted terminators i had chosen grey knights

[Brother Wolf]

The new rules for Assault Cannons are 24" range, S6, AP3, Heavy 4 (Rending).

And what's this about Termies dying too easy? I wish! I've nailed a squad of 5 termies with an Earthshaker and a BattleCannon and watched all 5 walk about unscathed. Kiss my lilly white behind they die too easy. 2+ Armor, 5+ Invulnerable, Storm Bolters and Assault Cannons and Thunderhammers, Oh My!

[Soulrender]

Too expensive, way too expensive.......starcannons just **************** them lol :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash:

[Sir Guppy]

yeah well starcannons are lame. I meant to say assault cannons in the other post. they are still really hard, but they are also very expensive.

[Brother Wolf]

Yeah, but what moron just marches his termies up the gut instead of deep striking them? On top of the thing... With the Starcannons... So they can stomp it...

[Imrix]

then the player watches as the deepstriked termies die under a hail of starcannon fire as they can't assualt.

[peer]

The new rules for Assault Cannons are 24" range, S6, AP3, Heavy 4 (Rending).
Is the AP3 part correct? One would think heavy 4 and rending would be enough.

[Dante]

it seems to be constantly changing!!!!

I thought it got rending and one mroe shoot...and thats it...

Anyways why would starcannons mess uo termies??

starcannon is ap 3.... Termie armour save is 2+...

:wtf:

[Tau Warrior]

Actually, I belive star cannon AP is 2. My friend plays eldar and im paranoid of the things.

[Warcrier]

Assault cannons are S6 AP4 Heavy 4 Rending and Starcannons are S6 AP2 Heavy 3

[Sir Guppy]

think it Ap4 made a typo back there saying 3

[ThirdDanScoota]

Soulrender, if you did take Daemonhunters with Grey Knights, you can't take Space Marines. I think thats what you were implying, right?

[Soulrender]

Thats also true, but what i meant with the disadvantage is something called deamonic infestation, which allows deamons to come in from any table edge or something like that, when grey knights are around on the battlefield. If the assault cannon gets ap3, i go madman mass dread and termies wth assault cannons just for fun lol :smash: :smash: :smash:

[Brother Wolf]

Well, even at AP4, massing Assault Cannons on the table, at 4 shots per, is well worth it due to Rending. (Lessee, 1 unit of Temies = 2 AC. 2 Dreads = 2 AC. 3 Land Speeders = 3 AC. Land Raider Crusader = 1 TL AC. THAT'S 32 SHOTS w/ 4 ReRolls!?!?!?!) I'm already salivating over the posibility of building a Ravenwing army LOADED w/ Land Speeder 'Tornados' runnign willy nilly blasting everything to pieces. (7 Land Speeders and counting...)

"And they LAUGHED at me for having so many Autocannons. Now who's laughing? Muhahahahahaha!!!!!"

[Sons of Russ]

ummmm, besides demolisher rounds, star cannons, and Plasma Cannons there is nothing that owns terminators.

Even against these weapons, they still get a 5+ invulnerable save.

I'm tired of people judging a unit soley by its stat line.

Its not my fault some of you play with little of no terrain.

Do you really think a Space Marine commander would say,

Hey, heres a desert Oasis, with good defensive postions and fire lanes....

BUT INSTEAD!, lets march our terminator squad thru the open desert at that Traitor Demoslisher tank!

Teleport?

Use cover, advance and overwhelm small sections of the enemy battleline?

No, we can't do that, that might actually be an effective and tactical sound method of employing elite specialized troops... :Slap:

[ThirdDanScoota]

Alot of typos in this thread... Anyway, i think the Termies part is going off topic a tad. Yeah, i agree with Souldrender a bit on Daemonic infestation. Against heavy Daemonic armies... Ouch. It REALLY sucks, and while their weaponry balances it out a little, look at how much it costs!!! I'm not saying its totally unbalanced, just very.. Lame.