Chaos Beach Map *Beta release*

[ShinGouki]

Download Here (includes Screenshots / readme) (http://dawnofwar.filefront.com/file/Chaos_Beach;36632)

I was hoping some people could give me some feedback about my beta map. Its my first map but I've put quite a lot of attention to detail on it. It's designed for very quick games of 1v1. The map itself was originally designed as part of my single player campaign, but i decided to turn it into a small 1v1 mulitplayer map as well due to the layout supporting it quite well. Im not happy with the fog distance / sky box distance particularly but seing as it needs to run well on slower machines i thought I'd better leave it like that.

I was wondering what people thought of the location of the strat points / relic / slag heap etc...

Click on the link for the screenshots as i currently don't have webspace of my own unfortunately. *And therfor have nowhere to link the images to*

If people like the map layout but feel its too small I am considering redoing the whole thing at about 1.5 / 2x the size with the same layout and possibly two more strat points.

Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions.

[ShinGouki]

Both the custom textures and details are not mine. Credits for these files go to Conor (monoRAIL) you can check out his website here for some decent artwork. www.cokane.com

[Aralez]

Nice screenshots..

http://dawnofwar.filefront.com/screenshots/59/files2/36632_1.jpg

[ShinGouki]

Thanks :)

[Hanna]

Oooooooh! Pretty!

Must play. Must play!

Love,

Hanna

[ShinGouki]

So any thoughts on balancing? Size etc...

Id like some kind of feedback from anyone who plays this map. I believe im fairly competent at making a map visually pleasing but I don't know what the community's preference is for balancing / map size etc......

Im going to work on adding some more custom elements to my next map with static base defences etc... new game types maybe. Is there anything that people would like to see in a map that maybe they don't know how to do themself?

[Hanna]

Hmm.

Is the sky color and the fog color different? I sorta get the impression that they are from the screenshots.

You might want to check here:

http://forums.relicnews.com/showpost.php?p=778710&postcount=31

For a list of RGB values for fog that go nicely with each of the skyboxes. It makes the fog->sky transition much nicer. That's if the screenshot isn't tricking my eyes.

Of course, you're free to make the fog any color you like. It's your map. Whatever you think looks best, is best.

I'll go play it now and maybe I'll have some thoughts.

----

Okay, I've played it twice (I didn't realize how small it was! Wow, that makes for some fast and furious fighting!) and I have to say that it is a really beautiful map. I did see one bit where some Lemon Russet Tank Parts were kind of floating in midair (near the slag deposit). And that doesn't even really matter, because it's outside of the play area and every map has something like that. So, it's incredibly nitpicky. Sorry. ::blush::

Okay, you asked about balance and stuff and I can see why because it feels like some of the points are closer to one base than the other when they are really equidistant. That's hard to pull off. I mean, that's like an Escher-esque map. So, it's a real mind-twister. The cover near the critical location makes it almost a little too easy to hold onto once it's been captured, but at the same time, it's so close to the bases and some control points that it could easy become a killing zone when people start building up turrets. If anyone lives that long.

So, it is balanced, it just sometimes feels like you're lost or that the map is bigger than the sum of its parts. It feels like player one has less room to build a base, but then, you look up and there is that little plateau that player two doesn't have except it's second control point is up there and if player one gets it, game over, man. But once jumping or teleporting troops start coming out, it can switch hands back to player two very easily because player one can't commit forces to hold onto it so early on or they'll lose elsewhere.

Player two has a huge area to build a base, it feels like, compared to player one. But it's also more vulnerable, doesn't have a slag deposit, and it's second control point could easily be snagged by a sneaky player one, especially if player two is going for the Relic which is more easily accessible.

That or the control point on the plateau is an "extra" point that's meant to be contended. In that case, it feels like player two has an advantage, until you notice that looking down from that plateau you have a beautiful view of player two's entire base. When the Whirlwinds come out....

So, I think it's balanced, but it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. It's half full for player one and half empty for player two.

Battles could end up being extremely short, though. That's true for all small two-player maps, though. (My River Canyon is pretty much the same, but not nearly as well designed as yours, in that once one player gains an advantage, it is almost impossible to turn the table. On your map, though, it feels like there are ways to turn the table if someone is clever enough to work them out. It's a map that's bigger than its size. And it's beautiful to look at.

I would suggest giving a try at changing the fog color to the blue that matches the skybox. That might not be what you want. On one side, it really makes the mountains stand out against the sky (I don't think you'd lose that, though if you changed the fog color to blue, they would just get blurred out and more distant-looking), but on the other side it makes the horizon of the ocean look too low. Either way has advantages and disadvantages. Such a nice map, gives you so many options and all of them are right.

I'm very happy with it. If you make any changes, I'm sure they'll be for the better, but I certainly can't think of anything that *needs* changing. It's all fine tuning from here on out, I think.

Well done. Well done!

Oh, and I got an amazing screenshot out of it! Really intense face-off between Force Commander and Farseer. Could almost make a loading screen all by itself. (Click the thumbnail to see the full-sized version)

http://www.bitcheswithglitches.com/nwn/archives/2005/01/relic00029-thumb.jpg (http://www.bitcheswithglitches.com/nwn/archives/2005/01/relic00029.jpg)

Intense map.

Love,

Hanna

[monoRAIL]

Yep, I agree with Hanna, you should definately either make the sky brown or the fog blue so the distant objects disappear rather than popping out of the sky.

[ShinGouki]

Ok first of Hanna, wow thanks for the huge reply very useful analysis just the kind of thing I was hoping for and more.

Ill sort out the floating bits of Leman Russ parts hadn't noticed that thanks :).

Yeah i was worried that the size of the map would be really inhibitive but i decided that at the same time it would at least differentiate it from some of the other 1v1 maps out there. So i tried to be more creative with the placement of everything. From what you say it seems to have worked out pretty much how i hoped so Im really happy about that :). It's my first map so Im happy for it to be simple.

As for the sky / fog. Well initially i did it this way so that the "fog" would kind of be like dust i guess. I wanted to have a blue sky for the contrast. But i think you are both right i should change the fog colour. Ill play around with it and try work out some kind of middle ground. It does look odd when you look at the water area. Thanks again for your constructive critisicsms.

I don't want to start my next map until I feel this one is finished. Even if its basic i like to have something complete. Oh and nice screen shot by the way Hanna :)

Thanks

Shingouki

[Aralez]

Yes there is ONE big negative thing about the map (only kidding) : It isn't an 8 player map :D Will we see a bigger version of this ? 2player maps are always so..... intimate, i want more room :D

[ShinGouki]

I am planning on my next map being of the larger variety don't worry. I'll post a version of it here so you can give me your opinions of it once its at a playable stage. Tweaking is one of those things that you definately can't do entirely by yourself, you always need another persons perspective to really know how to balance something. So 8 player maps seem to be the size that is most popular at the moment? I was going for a 2v2 originally but i guess i could attempt a map at the opposite end of the scale to my first one to see where the boundaries lie. Oh and just out of interest once I finish tweaking the map in this thread do you think its worth entering into the competition ?

[Hanna]

Absolutely enter it in the competition if you want to. It's a worthy competitor.

Just about every map size has its proponents. Eight-player, Six-player, Four-player, Three-player, Two-player.

A single-player campaign consisting of even one map would probably have the entire community on their knees worshiping you.

So, I suggest you don't make the map for the players, make the map you wanna make. Very few people (compared to those who play the "built-in" maps) play our maps anyway, so it's best to focus on making yourself happy. So I've been told, anyway.

Happy mapping. And good luck in the contest if you decide to enter. :)

Love,

Hanna

[faust8577]

Actually I play alot home built maps. There is alot cool ones out there and this is one of them. Small, quick and intense. The texturing is really amazing, I look forward to the next one. Hell I think I played all three of yours Hanna :) and quite a few others.
come think of it I must have at least 50+ home built maps downloaded........

Now to learn the map editor, is it complicated?

[Star Wars Kid]

It is actually rather straightforward.

[faust8577]

Thanks man this should do