CL morale bug

[komninosm]

I just noticed that the CL gives +12 to morale regen to the squad you attach him too.
I'm going to take a stab in the dark and guess it's a typo, judging from the +2 of other Heroes and stuff.

Also, the Sorcerer seems to have no morale bebefits and nor do Exarchs. Perhaps they forgot that exarchs don't inherit from leaders but from basic squad luas, or it could be intended, but I don't see the reason for it.

Comment here, before I add it to the lua problem list thread.

[TBS]

probably a typo...but not necessarily something that needs to be fixed (Chaos morale is weak anyway).

[[Vertigo]]

Chaos Space Marine rally at 150 morale and that takes a while to happen, so I think that is why the Chaos Lord's morale regen is that high when he is in a squad.

[komninosm]

[Vertigo], you might want to delete your post here if you want to save face. It shows you utter and irrevocable Chaos FANBOYSM!
Chaos isn't the only one not to rally at 50 you know. Only SM do that (and I do think it's overpowered, should be 100).
You're also forgetting how exarchs not only do not add + morale regen, they also don't add +max morale.
So I think [TBS] you're right, it's probably a typo, but Chaos morale isn't really that weak and it should be fixed. I bet if it was the FS or some eldar leader you'd be all over it people.

[Demon_Eyes]

Lets calm down.

I have not looked at the CL morale bonus, but if its 12 and the other commanders aside from CS is 2 then that deffinately appears to be a typo, CS should add morale so that appears to be a bug as well.

[komninosm]

I gave details in another thread.
Seargs,AC and warlocks give +1 regen, NL give +2, exarchs 0.
Heroes give +2, but Warboss gives +3 and you know about the Sorc. The Eldar don't have a second hero, the SC isn't attachable, doesn't even have good morale for itself.
The CS could stand to get +1 regen, I think Lib does too (I forget, it may be +2, but CS is much cheaper anyway).

PS: Is there any relevance to TT in this matter? I doubt it.

PPS: I'm calm, I just had to not let such an opportunity go to waste. Can it get any more obvious than this? If I wasn't calm about it, I'd put it in my sig and make it lame like his.

[Demon_Eyes]

Sour Grapes my friend.

The CL deffinatly appears to be a bug CS might possibly be a bug, exarchs we have talked about in another thread though it could be a possible bug warlock gives +1 regen and aura I thought so aspect might be missing the +1 regen. We should avoid the SC in this thread, that is more of a balancing issue at this point than a specific bug.

[[Vertigo]]

Komninosm, not everything wierd you find in the LUAs is a typo, you don't know what the dev was thinking when he put that in. Not everything is "common sense".

[komninosm]

Demon, just to be a pendantic prick, but you should change the word bug in your post with typo.
And I should change the title too :-p

What I said about the SC is that it isn't attacheable (well duh) so it doesn't need to be considered. Barring that all leader type entities give +max morale and +morale regen to squads you attach them too. The exarchs don't, but it isn't clearly a typo, it could be by design. However the case could also be made that it's an oversight because unlike other leaders they inherit from the basic squad not the leader pattern. There's no clear answer, typo/oversight or not.

The CL +12 however is obviously a typo and only a Fanboy that [points] big would be in such denial. I guess he never heard that Chaos are supposed to be weaker in morale than SM [/sticks his CL in his PSM squad].

[Demon_Eyes]

Bug, Typo, Glitch, eh its all the same to me at this point ;)

The exarchs could be argued either way indefinatly, mainly what I was curious about was (and I can't check it right now) if the warlock gives a morale regen and aura effect because I thought I remember seeing both on the warlock, if so it could possibly have been an oversight, I still don't believe that they are but if the warlock had both then that would be reason to question it.

Chaos marines are suppose to be weaker in morale deffiantly, they did not get the "and they shall know no fear" rule in TT and I thought marines typically had better leadership scores. However Chaos PSM, Obliterators and if I remember correctly terminators were fearless, along with this certain chaos god marks would give the associated troops a fearless rule (I think it was slaneesh and tzneetch marks?) I think some other elite troop selections may have been fearless as well.

[komninosm]

The warlock does give an aura (20% vs 15 of the exarchs) and +100 morale and +1 regen, like the Seargs (AC give +50, +1).
I think based on TT someone gave a good argument why exarchs shouldn't add morale, but the basic squad also should have better morale to start with, as in TT they apparently did.
I also heard that PSM were fearless in TT, but where nowhere near as hard to kill as they are now. So I wouldn't mind any changes to them.
As for chaos god marks, it would be hard and complicated to simulate, so they just left it at berserk fury, 50% less morale damage on top of other buffs.

[[Vertigo]]

Now the Chaos Lord morale regen I could see as being a typo since the "1" and "2" key are close to each other on the keyboard, but you have no way of knowing for sure except by going off of the other races. The Chaos Sorcerer doesn't have just a 0 for morale regen the entries are missing entirely, which leads me to believe that it is intentional. Same with the Eldar Exarchs, they are missing the values entirely. But I don't have any proof that these are intentional, just like you have no proof that they are not intentional, Komninosm. The blade cuts both ways.

[Demon_Eyes]

I only brought up the chaos fearless rules because it would fit into the offcolor undivided chaos army that DoW has, in TT PSM squads had a better invulnerable saving throw than regular chaos marines from my recollection so they were tougher to kill in comparison to regular chaos marines and with talons/mutation/flight were fast and deadly in CC, there were more daemonic gifts than that but only 3 could be used, 3rd ed rules they were rolled for, 4th ed rules they were selected but some things were changed on the gifts, I have not had a chance to actually read it yet, just the short article in white dwarf about the change.

[komninosm]

Fist off, +12 morale regen could be intended feature not a typo, my point is you don't know if it is or not. Secondly, nothing is wrong with the FC stun, it is working pefectly.

I'm sorry [Vertigo], but after seeing you post the above in the lua problem list thread I care even less about anything you say. You're simply too bereft of sense to talk to you.

There's no clear evidence to indicate that the Exarchs or Sorc missing morale bonuses is a typo (in fact I tend to agree that it probably isn't, it's only stupid balancing decisions, at least in the case of the Exarchs, or maybe fluff reasons, mainly for the Sorc but also the Exarchs, though the TT eldar squads had better morale to begin with, their leader gave them no bonus but their morale was similar to the morale of other races' squad WITH leaders from what I was told, makes you think).

But the CL +12 is a typo, I'm 99% sure.
And saying the FC stun works perfectly (sneeker) is totally nuts. You know that as well as I do. So stop it with your hidden agenda against me and go post that in the FC stun bug theory thread if you dare.

I reiterate my comment about how you'd be all over it if it was the ELDAR FARSEER that had this typo, hypocrite(s).

[[Vertigo]]

Not really, Komninosm, +12 regen for an expensive hero isn't all that big of a deal. Even if it was the FS I wouldn't care anyways. I bet you didn't even know the CL is the most expensive hero of them all.

[Demon_Eyes]

Well technically Warboss: 375r/125p though Lord is the most expensive teir1 hero. Either way this is getting off course, the morale regen on the lord is being presented as a possible bug/typo and we are not the ones who will determine if or if not it is a bug/typo.

[komninosm]

Wow, you mean the CL is 5% more expensive (270/90 vs 260/85) than the FC so he's worth a +12 bonus instead of +2?!
I knew the CL cost more btw, as I've been playing Chaos a lot lately (trying some weird stuff out).

Keep it up [Vertigo], you're amusing me to no end with your fanboyism.
Sorry if I just can't accept your word on the FS issue. I'm sure others will back me up on this.

Demon, you're right we're stating opinions here, but opinions can vary from sound and logical to completely ridiculous and unfounded. I'm commenting on [Vertigo]'s opinion.

[[Vertigo]]

That's right, Komninosm, it is MY OPINION that the CL morale regen isn't a bug and as deamon_eyes pointed out it isn't for us to descide. So thank you for pointing out the wierd thing in the LUA now lets sit back and watch what the devs do to it.

[Smokeypancake]

Actually kom the Chaos are supposed to have more morale than SM, but not rally quickly. Also, I can see why the Chaos Lord adds such a huge bonus to Morale because he's supposed to kill everything that disappoints him.

[komninosm]

[Vertigo], but then how do you class anything as a bug/typo? How about the Stormboy penetration to some armour? How about pretty much anything in the lua problem list thread? Hey, it's not a bug/typo, it's a feature. Nice excuse [expletive deleted]. How about you learn to spell 'decide' while you're at it? I'm pretty sure English (or is it 'American' now?) is your first language so it shouldn't be that hard. It's not like you're trying to type in French or something.
I was thinking of changing my sig back after I came back from my trip, but I see your fanboyism bias has not diminished while I was gone, so I'll leave it as is. Until you admit to the simple truth of this matter.


Smokey, were did you hear that Chaos are supposed to have more morale? And anyway the CL gives +12 to morale regen, which affects how soon they rally not how much max morale they have. The CL max morale bonus is not higher than the FC.


PS: [Vertigo] please repeat the part about:
'Even if it was the FS I wouldn't care anyways'
It never fails to make me laugh

PPS: This bug/typo isn't really a big deal. What I find amusing/infuriating is the total lack of logic and honesty from [Vertigo] and his hypocricy. Kids stay away, that is your mind on fanboyism.

[Nevin]

You guys are making a real big fuss over nothing... E-mail relic under the complaints or bug category and get the "Typo" or "Bug" fixed if its that much of a problem. ;)

[First And Only]

Yeesh kom, you're so quick to resort to personal attacks these days. Lay off it will you? You both have good points, it could be a typo, and it might not be ebcause there is reason for +12 regen to exist.

The reason is flamers. Tier 1 SM vs Chaos fights first come down to massing, failing that they then come down to morale because both sides will go for flamers (only highly experienced players do this though).

This is where SM excel, 50 morale to rally is a definite edge, and Chaos are at a disadvanatge, so perhaps the Cl's +12 to morale regen is an effort to balance this.

Or then again, it could be a typo. Either way only Relic is in a position to know for sure, so let's drop it.

[komninosm]

FAO, LOL!
About time you showed up your ugly head here too :-p (j/k)
I don't see any unjustifiable personal attacks. It's perfectly logical to accuse [Vertigo] as a biased Chaos fanboy, since he even signs some of his posts as Chaos (when the delusion of objectiveness goes away). It's hardly like I'm calling him an idiot or worse without any evidence for it. And these days? This post is weeks old.

It's also nice to see you spout the same nonsense. The reason is FLAMERS?! WTF dude? Why then do other races not get a +12 Hero? What about Eldar for instance who have the worst morale and no flamers either?
Just admit it (you too) that if the bug/typo was in the Eldar FS you'd be all over it.
Only RELIC can 'know' (100%) if the missing/wrong penetration of some unit are intended, but that doesn't make people shy away from posting OBVIOUS shit like this in the lua problem list thread. I think 99% certainty is enough, it certainly is for Eldars, like the plasma nades bug or whatever.

This thread should be linked in my thread as it shows what I have to deal with. Total, unabated fanboyism.

PS: I'd love it if you too would lie like [Vertigo] and say you wouldn't care if this was the FS and not the CL, so go ahead, make my day. :-p

PPS: I hope you don't find this post flamy too, I'm only speaking truths here, hardly personal attacks, like moron, dickhead, etc.

[SubZero]

Dont know if its classed as personal attacks, but i swear if anyone mentions 'fanboys' in any method of spelling im gonna open a can o' whoop ass.

[First And Only]

Just stop it kom, those are blatant attacks on the person's credibility as the term you use is only used in the derogative sense. You're claiming people are biased way too often, I didn't even side against you on this one and yet you want to just throw away everyone's arguments because to you anyone who disagrees appears to be biased. That is not the proper way to make an argument.

If it's 'logical' that Vertigo is biased for Chaos, than by the same 'logic,' you are biased towards Eldar. So just drop it alright?

[komninosm]

How is it logical from this bug report that I'm biased for Eldar?
You could say I'm biased against Chaos, but anything else would be wrong. I hope you don't need me to elaborate on this, I trust your reasoning skills :-p

I just call it like I see it. And I definetely see a good case for bias or fanboyism. MY favourite race syndrome.

And how did you side for me in this one? You took no sides at all. In fact you leaned towards [Vertigo] claim of unknowability, agnosticism on this matter.
I also didn't use only personal characterisations, I used arguments that countered your assertions, but you evaded to answer those but instead went on a tangent (so what else is new).
You even failed to answer my question with honesty. How about if this typo/bug was not in the CL but the Eldar FS? Come on, just admit it, you'd be all over it and all you Eldar-hater goon-squad.

[First And Only]

I did not say I sided with you, and yes I did take the position of agnostic, becuase that's what a scientific and logical mind would do. This looks like it might be a typo, but it also could be intended, we don't know if Relic wants this or not, therefore, assume the null hypothesis: it is intended until further notice.

I did not avoid your arguments that were agaisnt mine, but I admit I didn't read this thread in its entirety, so any 'dodging' is out of ignorance. I did not see an yarguments talking about flamers in the SM/Chaos matchup, so I don't think there are any countering my assertions.

Still doesn't mean you should not assume the null hypothesis. It's good you noticed this in case it is a typo.

And the reason no one else gets (if it is intended) might be because morale damage is given to SM/Chaos as an advantage, while orks/Eldar are given disruption. Morale is meant to be a weakness of Eldar/orks.

And finally, if you call fanboyism as you see it, then I call 'newbie commenting on balance' like I see it, which logically follows from your comments, Mr. "Eldar are not more disruptive than SM/Chaos."

Hah look at that, I provided evidence for an attack on credibility. Where's yours?

[komninosm]

Nice to see you still avoided my question (about FS). What's the matter can't you lie one more time? It won't be like you'd be lying to yourself, only to me(us). You know the real truth (I hope, then again mild mental illness isn't out of the question).

BTW, it's nice to see your twisting of facts is as polished as ever. What you said was you didn't side against me. What I said before that is that you spout the same nonsense (as [Vertigo]).
You agree with [Vertigo]'s position for the most part. I'd hardly call that not siding with him, ie against me.
Also your claim about 'agnosticism' is all well and good, but as I said that can be said about every entry in the lua problem list thread. There aren't any certainties about most stuff there either. Agnosticism isn't a copout to be used when the evidence is piled against you. You can still have opinions on issues based on what you do know, like agnostic theists or agnostic atheists for example. This case is as certain a typo as most in that thread. With your kind of thought one can't comment on any of the game elements because he doesn't know the mind of 'RELIC', even obvious ones like this. RELIC works in mysterious ways. I thought you weren't a fundie, but probably an atheist or at least a freethinker. I hope this is the worst possible insult for you (it is for me) cause you deserve it for failing your supposed ideals so badly :-p

Once again you prove your lack of logic is only matched by your fanboyism. Nice try.

PS: Bringing up irrelevant arguments from another thread to attack me on this matter is a fallacy too. Can you name it? :-p

[First And Only]

Oh god.

What if the FS had this 'typo?' Nothing would change, I still wouldn't know if it was intended or not. Yeesh.

Accusing me of lieing, hilarious. Lack of logic and fanboyism, even more amusing given your history on these forums for never providing evidence of any claims you make about the eprformance of units, and blatantly ignoring replays that demonstrate contrary to your claims.

How is bringing up your self-demonstrated lack of knowledge of the game irrelevant, when you yourself got ths thread started in that direction by claiming you see fanboyism logically following from what people say.

Which isn't true obviously, since if I were a SM fanboy I would never be for a nerf to the scout rush, nor a buff to WL/rangers.

This thread has degraded to attacks on each other's credibility, moderators lock please.

[Moe]

What the hell, I haven't had to lock a bug report thread in months. For crying out loud.
This thread has degraded to... well, basically what FAO said. Just to remind everyone THIS IS JUST TO POINT OUT A TYPO IN THE LUA KTHX. That means you do not start a balance discussion in here, as stated in the bug forum guidelines.
Why? Well, look what happened here. Now imagine you're a developer hunting down bugs, and you have to sort through three pages of people calling each other fanbois just to make sure you didn't miss any info. Yes, you would need an aspirin, or better yet morphine.
So, to summarize, don't do this again.