PDA

View Full Version : Da Fish's improved Guide to playing Chaos in Winter Assault!



Da_Fish
19th Oct 05, 12:24 PM
A Guide to Chaos in WA:

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8250/chaosstart5ty.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chaosstart5ty.jpg)

Let the galaxy burn!

Introduction:
Here is guide I just made to help people if they are having trouble with playing as Chaos or if they are new to playing in WA. In this Guide you will find all the units and their costs, details on how to use them, stuff to be wary of and a few build orders. More will be explained in the table of contents below.

1. Units
2. Unit-Specific Strategies
3. Tips and things to be careful of
4. Build Orders


1.Units:


Infantry:

Heretic:
Cost: 60/0
Just your builder unit. His forced Labour ability is both a blessing and a curse, even though you can building buildings faster than other races.

Cultists:
Squad Cost: 80/0
Reinforce Cost: 20/0
Champion Cost: 75/0
These are your scouting/meatshield/Tier 1 support unit. They are weak compared to other support units but Heavy weapons/Champions make up for that.

Chaos Marine(CSM):
Squad Cost:190/0
Reinforce Cost:50/0
Champion Cost:55/0
The lesser cousin of the Space Marine, these guys can get a very good CC(Close Combat) or ranged punch in Tier 1.

Raptors:
Squad Cost: 240/0
Reinforce Cost: 60/0
Champion Cost: 65/0
Excellent harass unit, especially in 1v1's. Brilliant against standard troops in CC, but can't outfight CC specialists such as Nobz, Assault Termies, etc. Becomes a bit obsolete in Tier2 onwards with the arrival of Berserkers.

Aspiring Champion:
The "Sergeant" of the Chaos army. Gives quite a good CC punch to a Chaos army in Tier 1, due to power swords and fists, Furious Charge and Berserk Fury. Becomes a bit obsolete in Tier 2 due to Berserkers. Can be possessed by a Bloodthirster.

Khorne Berserkers:
Squad Cost:200/20
Reinforce Cost:50/5
Oh baby! These guys are your official anti-all unit in Tier 2. They can destroy anything in CC bar Tier 3 CC specialists. Berserkers are even effective against walkers! You are thick if you have less than 3 squads of these puppies and you're not teching. But be careful of dancers when you use berserkers, as a good dancer can destroy you. It has happened to me plenty of times.

Horrors:
Squad Cost:250/50
A very good anti vehicle unit when massed. Use them if you want to use predators in Tier 2.

Possessed Marines(PSM):
Squad Cost:220/100
Reinforce Cost:55/25
Your Tier 3 specialist CC unit. Very powerful and durable. Should replace Berserkers as soon as possible if you have the resources to get them.

Obliterators:
Squad Cost:240/75
Reinforce Cost:80/25
Your ranged "specialist" in Tier 3. Good against infantry and buildings especially when massed.

Vehicles:

Defiler:
Cost:150/300
This vehicle is good in early Tier 2 as the autocannon is still a thing to be feared. It’s and good vehicle in both CC and ranged and it has gotten numerous buffs in Winter Assault, such as the Hp buff to over 3000Hp.

Predator:
Cost:150/300
Excellent infantry killer for a tier 2 non-walker vehicle. Fast and quite durable, it's really reaches its full potential when Chaos Projectiles is researched. A must-have in long slugfests.

Rhino:
Cost:95/70
Your transport unit that should have at least some weaponry but it doesn't. Maybe it has a use vs real shooty whores, as smoke launchers reduce the damage done to your men. But with pathetic health, it's not worth getting in my opinion.

Heroes:

Chaos Lord:
Cost:220/50
A nice CC punch to have in the early game. Is the 2nd best hero in the game, CC-wise, and with Daemon Strength, he can fight toe-to-toe with a Defiler. Can be possessed by a Bloodthirster.

Chaos Sorceror:
Cost:150/50
A very nice addition to a very nice Chaos Tier 2. Is quite a good fight in CC, but not very durable. His spells must be used for him to be very effective. You can attach him to a squad of berserkers/PSM if you don't want him to die. Can be possessed by a Bloodthirster.

Bloodthirster:
Cost:400/400
The Über unit for Chaos. This guy is an absolute must for the late-game Chaos army. Ususally armies will all concentrate on him to take him down, so have him supported by PSMs and Predators. Blood for the Blood God! :evilnod:


2.Unit-Specific Strategies:

Heretic:
These guys are very good when you use Forced Labour. Hotkey used for it is “F”. Not pressing "F" again fast enough can cause him to die. Now don't say "That'll never happen to me", it happens to the best Chaos players. Also be extra careful of scout rushes when using Forced Labour.

Cultists:
These guys are quite a good support unit, as Cultists with grenade launchers(GL's) destroy those bunkering IG nasties and much more. But if you give them GL's keep them at the back, as they have little Hp. If you don’t like GL’s you can always use plasma as it doesn’t cause Friendly Fire. Also good for a bit of harassment, I find infiltrated cultists really annoy people trying to take down my Critical Location. :p Meatshields are their primary use for me though. Champs make them good in CC also.

Chaos Marine(CSM):
When you give them Champions, with swords and Furious Charge, they are quite effective in Tier 1 CC. Together with Berserk Fury, this makes CSM able to hold off orks and even raptors in equal numbers. They have no other use as their shooting capability has been reduced to 2 heavy bolters per squad. But these heavy bolter's are still effective in Tier 1, as SM don't have the (good)heavy weapons and the fact that they are quite useful vs the hordes of guardsmen. CSM nades are useful too, with good damage and knockdown ability, but they require some micro to be effective. You either play 2 ways when using CSM. You get a champ for your squads for both styles. When you want some ranged power, give your CSM HB’s and get the plasma pistol for your Champion. If you want a nice CC punch, get Champions, with swords and Furious Charge.

Raptors:
These are excellent harass units in 1v1’s. But if you use them, try to get two squads so your enemy can’t defend 2 places at once(with ease).These are a better option than CC-orientated CSM when you are facing IG or Orks, as guardsmen and Nobs can own you in Tier 1.

Aspiring Champion:
This guy is very effective in Tier 1 CC, especially when given the power sword. His Berserk Fury can give a much needed boost to the damage that your squads cause, so use it when you are going to CC(or be CC’d) or when you need to take out some extra guardsmen. Plus he increases morale for you Tier 1 troops so he’s quite important in Tier 1.

Khorne Berserkers:
These guys are kinda no-brainers. "Attack is the only order worth remembering". All you have to do is use them in CC and they’ll do the work. But just be careful of dancers, as they are quite vunerable to them. Attaching heroes to these squads ensures the heroes are not singled out and makes the squad even more deadly!

Horrors:
You’re AV unit for tier 2, these guys are a must when facing IG sentinel spammers. Have at least 3 squads of Horror's with you to take care of any other annoying vehicle. Always have them supported as people can spot where they are easily. Their deepstriking ability is very helpful, especially when an ally sees a dreadnought/sentinel rush coming his way. It’s lovely to drop them right in an eldar base while his army is fighting your main force! :D

Possessed Marines(PSM):
These are your only hope of taking Assault Terminators, Ogryns and upgraded Nobz. Get the upgrades for them at the Sacrificial Circle immediately. But be wary when facing Assault Termies, as almost nothing can match them can match them in CC. I theory to take them could be to run circles around them, as you are faster, and because PSM have flamers, they would break the AT’s and then you could kill them. But you would require the micro skills of a god and it would take too much time. Try it if you want.

Obliterators:
These guys are extremely effective vs infantry but do not use them when playing vs Imperial Guard. Their Karskins outshoot them and with commisars, you have no hope in a firefight. If you mass them though take them for “walkies” in the enemy base. Trust me, his base will be gone in seconds and he’ll be screaming at you for those final seconds. The only problem is you have to keep them moving and they won’t target what you want them to. But it won’t matter anyway. ;) They are awful against vehicles though.

Defiler:
The Jack-of-all-trades vehicles is rightly feared. Just remember to switch it's stance to ranged and move it closer, as the ranged stance now uses it's artillery instead of the autocannon. Be careful of sentinels and other anti-vehicle weaponry, as they tear the Defiler apart. Put it in CC so it triggers kill animations(it becomes invincible while doing so), if you see any rokkits, etc. Always get the Defiler until you get to Tier 4, as Predators are next to useless until then.

Predator:
You absolutely must get Chaos Projectiles upgrade for the predator to be effective. Then, when massed, it really starts dishing out the damage to vehicles. It's nice to have it at the back of the army(with preferably Possessed Marines in front), so no units like Assault Terminators get to them. But be careful of the AT’s deepstrike ability. It can still catch you out.

Rhino:
Uses for this unit are few, but useful nonetheless. You can use them to protect your CC units when you are facing IG, as they have little AV. Smoke launchers protect them further.

Chaos Lord:
If you ever want to use him seriously in late game, get him all his upgrades. When given them, he can use Daemon Strength to take many units in a 1v1. He won’t win if he takes on a BT or Avatar, but if he uses it, but he’ll dish out a lot of damage to them. If you attach him to a Berserker or PSM squad, his chances of living are drastically improved in almost any situation.

Chaos Sorceror:
This guy is a must in Tier 2. His spells can turn the tide of a battle and Chains of Torment means a squad is free for your Berserkers to kill. Like the Chaos Lord, if you attach him to a Berserker or PSM squad, his chances of living are drastically improved in almost any situation. This is especially true as he has low health and the attaching will protect him from various other threats, such as knockdown from rockets, rogue priests(Priests best Sorcerors in 1v1 :disgust: ), etc.

Bloodthirster:
Well You may think that charging this guy into battle will win you the day. It might, but it probably won't. Only charge him into the enemy so that he becomes a "bullet magnet" and the rest of your army is hopefully ignored. Try and use him as a army killer though, mainly against infantry, as kill animations will help him to live longer and he takes out infantry quickly.

3.Things to be careful of:

Watch out for the dancers!
A very good dancer can have your once massive CC army reduced to tatters. Soon you will feel like this towards dancers. :steam: Units to look out for especially are Kaskrin squads and Banshees.

Stick to what you're good at!
Don't try to outshoot mass plasma or Kaskrin squads with your Obliterators just because they have morale and you don't. Your Obliterators will evaporate and you'll be like, :wtf: . Stick to what you're best at, and that's Close Combat! Destroy those ranged sissies who hide behind their guns with PSMs and Defilers!

Get an extra Machine Pit!
The reason for this is that getting the Chaos Projectiles upgrade from the machine pit takes a long time. You don't want to stop your production of vehicles in Tier 3! So get an extra machine pit(or maybe 2!) and get ready for the Über predators!

What?! You're still in Tier 1?!!!
Chaos have the fortunate ability to get to Tier 2 very quickly. I have gotten to Tier 2 in less than 2 and a half minutes, so I advise you get to tier 2 as fast as you can, and open up a can of whoop ass on your foes!

Don't CC the Imperial Guardsmen!
Remember how I told you that the Champion/sword/F.Charge/B.Fury combo was a really nice CC punch in tier 1? It is. But not against IG. You may think that "If I can kill guardians in CC, can kill guardsmen". Well you're wrong. These guys can take equal numbers of CSM in CC, when a commisar is attached, because of it's healing bug. So watch out!

For the 1v1 peeps!
We all know that 1v1 for chaos is a weakness, as it is the only Tier in which they are affected by morale. So what you should do is attach the Chaos Lord to a squad of CSM or Cultists. It helps the Lord to survive vs other commanders and definitely prevent him from being singled out and torn apart by IG nades. Raptor Harass is very effective vs IG and good vs other races also. But you have to keep teching as WA is now a "tech or die" game.

Cultists and Heavy Weapons
Cultists are quite effective when you give them heavy weapons, as long as they are protected. I find that Cultist nades are much better than plasma, which knockback and AoE damage. Berserk Fury can still be used and, let's be honest, GL's pwn. But if you are going to CC with your CSM it's Friendly Fire can hurt your troops as well, so plasma might be the better option in a CC fest.

Walk those Obliterators!
Well it ain't for the exercise I assure you! :p You see mass obliterators do incredible damage when moving compared to when they are ordered to attack. While moving, they can wipe out a large base in seconds. The only time I suggest you don't move them is when you are in Heavy Cover facing lots on infantry. So remember, take them for walkies!

:alarm:The importance of ranged!:alarm:
I learned, after playing a few matches which I lost badly to dancers, is while in Tier 1, get your CSM heavy bolters! This is because when facing a good SM dancer, you can outshoot him in Tier 1 as he has no heavy weapons aside from flamers, which are rarely used. And while you're going through the tiers, try to have some ranged ability. Use of defilers on ranged stance, horrors as your AV, and maybe stick with the CSM/Heavy bolter's combo. I lost badly to dancers, so don't make the same mistake I did. Use some ranged weaponry! Oblits are effective too, but mass them and remember, only walk them!

4.Build orders:

Unfortunately, most of these are only teching build orders, not advisable for 1v1 games, as chaos just don't have a good Tier 1 in my opinion. Plus this game is about getting to higher Tiers as fast as possible! :D

Da_Fish's Soft Tech:
HQ: Queue Heretic, Cultist, Cultist.
Cultists capture points.
2nd Heretic helps 1st on Temple(both use FL).
Queue Armory then Generator.
At Temple build 1 CSM squad.
At armory research Power swords and Furious Charge.
When 300/100 is available get to Tier 2.
Heretics build LP's on points.
Have fun at Tier 2!:D

This tech enables me to hold off small little skirmishes with the CSM squad(set to assault stance) and just have a Tier 2 slugfest!

Da_Fish's Hard Tech:
HQ: Queue Heretic, Cultist, Cultist, Cultist.
Cultists capture points.
2nd Heretic helps 1st on Temple(both use FL).
Queue Generator then Armory.
Heretics build Lp's on points.
When 300/100 is available get to Tier 2.
At Temple build 1 Berserker squad.
Build Sacraficial Circle, Machine Pit and 1 or 2 generators.
When 400/300 is available get to Tier 3.
While teching, get resource upgrades and a small army.
When at Tier 3 build another Machine pit and build up force of PSMs.
Build Daemon Pit and research Chaos Projectiles.
Fight with army of PSMs and Predators.
When Chaos Projectiles is researched, get the Bloodthirster!

This build heavily depends on good teammates and is preferred for 2v2v2v2's, 3v3's and 4v4's.

The following Raptor builds are generously given by Thor. Thanks Thor! :)

Raptor Quickie Build:
HQ: Queue Heretic, Cultist, Cultist.
Cultists capture points.
2nd Heretic helps 1st on Temple(both use FL).
Build Raptor Squad and a 2nd when you have the money(ASAP).
Use raptors to decap enemy points and weaken his economy.
Take it from there.

Thor says:"Don't reinforce your squads untill you have LP's at least 2 points(not LP2's). Then you need to know where to jump and when, but thats too hard to explain, practice will teach you that. Basically what you want to do is harass 2 places at once - against good players thats a must. Take it from there....I dont recommend this BO vs Ork."

Raptor Tech Build
HQ: Queue Heretic, Cultist, Cultist, Cultist.
Cultists capture points.
2nd Heretic helps 1st on Temple(both use FL).
Queue Generator.
Build Raptor Squad when Temple is built.
Harass with raptor squad and tech.

Thor says:"Here you can afford 3 cult squads for faster capping. While you build barracks queue up a generator and get your raptor squad - now it would be a good idea to reinforce that squad with at least one right away, you can afford it and its a must if you face a raptor harasser (You never know in auto....), if you dont and he did you will have to retreat meaning its downhill already there."

Korbahs HorrorTech™
HQ: Queue Heretic, Cultist, Cultis, Heretic, Cultist, Cultist(Last 2 Cultists are optional).
Cultists capture points.
Heretics build LPs on front points first, which are upgraded to LP2's.
Heretics build mines on front LP2's.
Heretics build 2 generators.
Heretics build Chaos Temple then Armory.
Tech to Tier 2.
While teching get 4 more generators.
When at Tier 2 spam horrors/zerkers/sorceror+defilers at your leisure.

Korbah says that this build is the fastest possible economy boom for chaos and that the mines beside the LP2's are to hold off Harass builds like Raptor rush, Big Mek harass, etc. It's all about buying time, so you can out-tech him and go onto Tier 2 spammination. Another thing you can do with this build is purchase another HQ and go 6 more generators, which makes defilers easier to get.


Well there you go. I hope you have learned a bit from this guide. I would like to thank Mordach, Korbah and Thor for adding to this guide, as well as the other members who made their contribution. Now go, spill the blood of your foes!

http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/2010/chaosend1ji.th.jpg (http://img349.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chaosend1ji.jpg)

Blood for the Blood God!

Grabnutz
19th Oct 05, 12:39 PM
nice work Fish.
This needs to go into the Tactica Forum as a sticky, all the threads in there are still for 1.2 :rolleyes:
Might do my own Orky guide...
If you wish, we could combine orky and chaos strats into 2v2 tactics with one team as chaos-ork...
We could also make tests of how strats work out, posting replays of examples (either test games or autos etc)
The possibilities for these threads are endless.
Again good work.

Da_Fish
19th Oct 05, 11:10 PM
This needs to go into the Tactica Forum as a sticky, all the threads in there are still for 1.2

Yes, I really hope it gets stickied. :) If others managed to do SM and Eldar, with you doing Ork Grabnutz, I'd say we might have a good chance.

Mordach
19th Oct 05, 11:32 PM
It seems that you've handled this nicely Da_Fish. I hope my pointers will help this guide get into the Tactica Imperialis. I'll see if I can add something else whenever I have the time.

Crush Project9
19th Oct 05, 11:43 PM
good post my friend. Altho i would like to argue that oblits will murder assualt termies, nobz, and ogryns with ease (cc units dont tend to do a lot of damage if their target is moving), so psm are not your only answer. Psm's are still a damn good unit nevertheless, plus does not require a relic like the oblits do.

another thing, i wouldnt double force labor your barracks. I dont remember the actual numbers, but the gain your going to see is not efficent enough to double up while using this ability. I believe the second worker gets half his effectiveness or some such. I tend to have the 1st builder fl and solo build the barracks, and use the 2nd builder to force labor lps, and ive been much happier with the results.

just some thoughts!

Mordach
20th Oct 05, 12:53 AM
Although if you double-FL the Temple, it'll be finished earlier, giving you faster access to troops, plus both your Heretics will be freed up at an earlier point. There should be about half health left on the second Heretic, allowing you to use the rest of his health to FL an LP up to near completion.

Rafta
20th Oct 05, 1:03 AM
Very nice guide, fish.
These tactics kick ass, believe me, i've seen them in action, and often Fish saved my Marines' asses.

=)

Crush Project9
20th Oct 05, 1:22 AM
ok, mordach. but your talking maybe a few seconds. a builder can typically get you 2 uber fast lps, as opposed to were you'd get only one. that extra fast req is going to get you more req/tech/troops faster, and the few seconds your buying by getting the fast barracks up are not going to make that much of a difference usually, seeing as you still have to walk the distance to his base.

a single builder on fl is still going to get your barracks up faster then your opponent who has out multiple builders anyways right? so why not get an extra 100 req before him too?

Wilhem
20th Oct 05, 2:42 AM
I don't know what is your problem with the Obliterators ????
The best units I can say it :)
Fast fireing and they have all the guns what keep them effective against infatry and vehicles and buildings.
If you had 3 full squad of them your the winner :)

But Da fish your guide is master !Just don't underestimate the Obliterators ok they are bad at CC.

Bret
20th Oct 05, 4:56 AM
Thanks for the great guide, Fish! I've really depended on guides such as this for strategy tips and other suggestions. I do hope this gets a sticky, we really need some guides for WA! Hopefully we will get similar guides for the other races, and Grabnutz, I really encourage you to develop one for the Orks. That would be great!

I would only offer one suggestion for your guide, Fish. Consider combining sections 1 and 2 together to have all the unit information in one place.

Thanks again, it's been very helpful.

Bret

JohnnyPaycheck
20th Oct 05, 8:56 AM
How can you possibly say that Chaos 1v1 is a weak point. Raptor overwatch is like an instant win button against all but the very best players and if you have any micro skills at all the game will be over by the 2 minute mark. No other race has any answer at all for chaos starting the game with heavy infantry available and as a result of this the early game balance is completely broken in chaos's favor...

Alcorr
20th Oct 05, 9:18 AM
Fast fireing and they have all the guns what keep them effective against infatry and vehicles and buildings.


Oblits SUCK vs. vehicles. It takes 30 of them about 2 minutes to kill a leman russ. To do any decent dmg vs. vehicles or buildings you have to keep them moving so they will use thier assaultcannons. But then they won't fire at what you want so its only good for basebashing or anti infantry...

Oblits are excellent units, I saw 30 of them slaughter a fully capped and fully upgraded army of termies (regular, upgraded with assaultcannons). Granted, there were no apoths nearby...but still....

Also, I would change your posts to give more credit to defilers. They absoultely tear through any tier 2 army with the proper support. There is NO reason to build preds over defilers in tier 2 whatsoever...mlai has some lab tests to prove that I believe.

Alpha_1
20th Oct 05, 4:34 PM
I thought FF was removed from the GL on cultists?

If cultist DO still have FF then should not IG get FF as well?

Are you positive about the FF?

Weavern
20th Oct 05, 7:14 PM
An admendment to this while defilers are awsome at nearly everything the finiky ai will offer you opportunities to perfer using preds over defilers particularly in facing large number of units your defiler is trying frantically to kill like traks or kanz. Other CC units that have a good chance of knocking the defiler appart are also a good reason to try and use preds but generally if you want the damage go the defiler if you want to babysit and have the unit do what you want use preds.

Da_Fish
20th Oct 05, 11:30 PM
@ Alpha: Yes both GL's have friendly fire to my knowledge.

And @ crushproject9: I always double FL my buildings at the start, as it will enable me to whip out an early army(If I'm playing 1v1 now).