BIOS Basics - 2600+ won't run at 2600+ on my MoBo

[FallenSoloSLS]

Okay, I've finally buckled down and gotten a deal on a 2600+ AMD AthlonXP processor. . . .

It has 333FSB capability, buuuuuuuut. . . I can't get it to run at that speed.

I have the following:

Shuttle AK35GT2 MoBo
Latest "F" bios flash successful
768 MB PC2100 DDR memory (266Mhz)
GeForce Ti4600
Two W.D. 80GB HDD
300Watt Power Supply (it may be 350, I don't recal)

The problem is that I can't set my FSB to 333 with the new processor. When I set my Multiplier to 12.5X and my CPU frequency to 166, Windows will not start up or it will not run properly. The MoBo is rated for a 333 FSB, but I've not been able to get it there and have a stable system.

Could it be a power issue? I don't think so, because it I set the BIOS to "use optimal settings" it starts up just fine, but the BIOS only runs the processor as an AthlonXP 2000+!

Is there an issue with the PC2100 not being compatable with a 333Mhz FSB? This is what I suspect.

On the Shuttle home page, there is documentation that I could run a 2600+ with a 266Mhz FSB, but I'd have to set the multiplier to 16 (which is not an option in BIOS as I've currently got it set).

BTW, what is a multiplier?!? If 16X is a possible option, what should I do to reveal it? Is there something else that I need to change to open up more multiplier options?

This is getting into an area where I could use a bit of friendly education and advice? I sorely want this to work as a 2600+ w/ a 333Mhz FSB, but if I have to buy new memory to do it, I'll be happy working at a 266Mhz FSB. But I need help figuring out how to set it up with the required multiplier settings.

[madmerchant]

I'd advise you go to http://www.tomshardware.com to find out about clock settings. It's a dodgy thing, and can invalidate your warrenty.

[Ash]

Do you have the latest [url=http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=2]4in1[/urk] drivers installed? You might need to do this in order to reveal the correct BIOS settings. (do what madz said too)

[IcecreamLtDan]

Where's Mac_Bug when you need him?

[Mac_Bug]

He already flashed his bios...

Perhaps you might want to recheck your understanding... that mobo of yours only support 266 Mhz FSB, the 333 we're talking about is RAM and only RAM.

[Mr-e-Man]

But, as madz already suggested, go to Tomshardware (http://www.tomshardware.com/). There's a story on how to unlock the multiplier on an Athlon XP in the "how to" section.

[Tbird]

you can unlock it al you want, but as mac already said the mobo itself will not go faster than a FSB of 266Mhz. link (http://us.shuttle.com/specs.asp?pro_id=79)

[FallenSoloSLS]

http://www.shuttle.com/new/product/spec/AK35GT2R%20DM.pdf

On this link, it shows that it actually is supposed to support a 333 FSB and be able to use PC2700 Memory. (maybe I'm wrong in my understanding, but I should be able to set a 333 FSB, and manually adjust my memory to 266Mhz, so that it is no overclocked.


But on this page, which I believe is older, the MoBo apparently only supports a 266 FSB:

http://us.shuttle.com/specs.asp?pro_id=79

Now I'm not into Overclocking, I like to have a warranty that is valild. But I do want to run my stuff to the specifications for which they're advertised.

I think what I have here is a power supply issue. I'm running two CD burners, a scanner, the processor, lots of memory, a big graphics card, an Audigy sound card, two hard drives, a USB2 PCI card, and a floppy drive all on 300Watts.

I've figured out that the problem apprears when Windows starts up and it starts to check all the peripherals, it goes dead and restarts. I think it's cause it's runnin' out of juice. I'm going to pick up a 450Watt PSU and install it tonight. I'll keep you updated.

[Tbird]

i cannot find anything that states this board supports 333FSB in the link you provided,
i hope it is indeed a power-supply issue, if not, then maybe you could get another board from your hardware-supplier, if you were indeed misguided/misinformed by the tech-specs.

[Ash]

sounds like you have a power issue.... AMD processors take up alot of power.

[url=http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=2]4in1[/urk] if you dont have these drivers, get them (no BIOS flash needed)

I have the AK32a (SDR/DDR version of the AK35) and it doesn't support 333mhz FSB. The '35 you have could be different tho.


on the power issue you have, what video card are you using? Some newer Radeons take up so much power that they prevent booting

[FallenSoloSLS]

follow this link ( http://www.shuttle.com/new/product/spec/AK35GT2R%20DM.pdf )and you should see an Adobe Acrobat file that shows the following:


AK35GT2/R VIA KT333 based Athelon XP motherboard
Hot Feature Highlight
Processor
Supports AMD Athelon XP / Athelon / Duron
462-pin processor at 200/266/333MHz
processor side bus (PSB) speed
RAID functrion (AK35GT2R only)
On board High Point HPT372 supports RAID
0,1,0+1
Jumper less OC function
Overclocking - Voltage, FSB, Multiplier
Chipsets
VIA KT333+VT8233A
Support AMD Athelon XP System bus
Support DDR200/266/333 DDR SDRAM interface
Memory
4 x 184 pin DDR SDRAM DIMM Slots
Support PC1600/2100/2700 compliant DDR
SDRAM up to 4GB capacity
None ECC support
AGP
1 AGP V1.0/V2.0 , 3.3V/1.5V , 2X/4X mode Slot
PCI slot
6 32bit/33MHz PCI Slots
Audio
On board C-Media 8738 six channel audio


So according to this page, the MoBo does support both PC2700 (333Mhz) and a 333Mhz FSB. If you look on the BIOS revision history, it had a bios update last fall that opened it up to the speeds as high as the AthlonXP2700+ processor.

I went to the store where I bought the MoBo and the guy I work with and I started talking, and we decided that my problem is not necessarily a power issue, though it could be. I'm going to unplug things and start the system to see how goes it, if that works, the the problem's is licked.

But we suspect that the issue is asynchronicity between the FSB and the memory. I've found a plethora of articles regarding memory running faster than the FSB - say a 266 Mhz FSB w/ 333Mhz memory side bus, which is no problem at all. But, I've found nothing that says that you can have a slower memory speed than the FSB.

We're thinking that if I set the FSB to 333Mhz, the BIOS tries to run the memory at the same speed, which is way overclocking my 266Mhz memory. That is why it is unstable when it starts up.

I've got to go into my BIOS and try to figure out how to manually set my memory speed to keep it at 266Mhz, and still allow my processor to run with a 333Mhz FSB. I'm not sure it's possible, and furthermore, I'm doubting that I have any reason . If the memory is the bottleneck, why run with a 333 Mhz FSB? What benefit will I see? Even if I can manually set my memory to 266Mhz, how will the memory controller on the chipset handle the differing frequencies? (those are rhetorical questions, but if someone has an answer, I'd appreciate it)

If the power is the issue, I'll save up and get a 450Watt PSU, actually, I currently have a good 350Watt PSU - I dug into my box of papers and found the manual for the PSU.

If the memory speed is the issue, which I think it is, I'll likely wait awhile to pick up a load of PC2700, which is rated for 333Mhz. But that stuff ain't cheap, so it'll be awhile. I've already spent enough on upgrades.

[Tbird]

-FSB versus Memory clock,

could indeed be the problem, some mobo have a ratio setting for the DDR clock in the BIOS like 1:1 or 1:3 (ratio set to 1:1 = FSB & Memory clock would both be set to 166Mhz, and like you said will "overclock" the Memory stick)

let us know how this works out,

the DDR vs. FSB ratio wouldn`t that big of a bottleneck BTW :)

[The_Assimilator]

Why doncha just drop the clock speed to 266MHz across the board (FSB & RAM), then you can run your proc and RAM with no stability issues, until you get that PC2700 DDR.

Your proc is already fast enough, you probably won't notice much of a slowdown anyhow with a lower bus speed. I recommend that you change the FSB/DDR clocks BOTH to 266MHz, bump up the CPU multiplier to the highest it can go, and run the board like that until you can afford some PC2700 DDR.

[FallenSoloSLS]

Both are now set at 266Mhz, and everything is running just fine.

I'll probably wait until next month to invest in PC2700. That will mean that when I build my In-Laws a new computer, it'll be one less thing I have to buy to build it - I'll just use the old memory.

[Mr-e-Man]

how generous of you.

[The_Assimilator]

Charge them for the 2700, give them the 2100, keep the 2700 for yourself. Yeah, that's nice, but hey... most of us would do the same thing anyway, so don't feel too guilty.

[FallenSoloSLS]

No no no. . . I'll likely build them a computer for free. I'm planning on using lots of spare parts I have laying around.

[Overkill211]

Okay - quick translation of ratings for those who haven't browsed overclocker sites.

PC1600 - Clock matched to older 200fsb Athlons
PC2100 - Clock matched to 266fsb Athlons
PC2700 - Clock matched to new 333fsb Athlons
PC3200 - Clock matched to planned 400fsb Athlons

Keep in mind, these are considered MINIMUM ratings for matching system components, and that oddball rated memory like PC2400, PC3000, PC3500, & PC3700 are availible simply to allow OVERHEAD for people to overclock. If you buy cheap PC2700, for instance; don't run your bus past 333 or you will begin to see error build-up. If you buy the expensive stuff (Like the Corsair Extreme series), they are actually putting chips on those DIMMS that can handle considerably more speed than they're rated at.

By the way... if you're wondering how the above numbers mean ANYTHING AT ALL (and this is actually a guess on my part which happens to add up) - The PCXXXX ratings are the interface speed in MegaBits Per Second, rather than the MegaHertz used for bus speed. Look (remember - 8 bits = 1 byte):
200fsb x 8 = 1600 .... i.e. PC1600
266fsb x 8 = 2128 .... i.e. PC2100 when rounded
333fsb x 8 = 2664 .... i.e. PC2700 when rounded
400fsb x 8 = 3200 .... i.e. PC3200
It is just guesswork, but it does add up; right? (I have one other way of calculating it which is more complicated, but yields the same results.)

[The_Assimilator]

Actually, that PCxxxx speed stands for the amount of MB per second that the RAM can transfer... so for example, PC2100 DDR can transfer 2100 MB a sec (2,1 GB) at peak transfer rates.

Why couldn't the damn memory manufacturers just keep the "PC", but add the FSB speed like with SDRAM? *sigh*

[Overkill211]

Yeah. My other method is :
1 clock cycle = 32 bits (until the new Athlon 64 comes out, anyway) = 4 bytes.
DDR = 4 bytes x 2 = 8 bytes per clock cycle.
Multiply by bus speed (remembering that it's in Megahertz)
So 200MHz fsb x 8 bytes per clock cycle = 1600MegaBytes per second.

I guess the Megabits thing comes from being exposed to emulators and modems.

[FallenSoloSLS]

If you buy cheap PC2700, for instance; don't run your bus past 333 or you will begin to see error build-up.


Hmmmm. . . . any good mid-range PC2700 brand you'd recommend that will actually run at 333Mhz, but will not be overclocked?

BTW, all the magazines are still saying that anything higher than PC2700 is not to any real standard yet, is that not true anymore?

[Mac_Bug]

The reason for that is because up until a while ago Athlon XP only had 266 mhz bus so going to 333mhz ram might actually be slower due to the mismatch. Typical 333mhz ram (PC2700) runs at slower CAS settings, you're probably better off setting them to 266mhz and CAS2 and it hsould be just as fast. With faster FSB however it's a good idea to get 333 ram, though the rule is the faster you can get the better, provided you can afford them.

[pug]

im using crucial pc2700 and xp2100 ,runs 24/7 @176x11.5 (2024,352ddr) settings 6,2,2,2 , make sure you run ram/fsb syncronous and lock agp@66mhz if you can.

whoops just noticed u are using pc2100 ram this is only rated 133x2=ddr 266 ,if u are tryin to run @ 166 then theres the prob the ram cant handle it ,better for you to run 133 anyway, the only way for u to run @ 333 is get 166 rated ram (pc2700+ ) or run asyncronous (which is a waste of time).

fallen solo > most good boards (i have epox 8rda+) will run way past ddr333 ,8rda's are doing 180+ (ddr400 ram) , the reason ppl buy ddr400 ram is so that they have at least some chance of reaching these speeds, no good tryin to reach 200 (400ddr) bus speeds if you have 266 rated ram, with o/clocking if you just raise the multiplier eg 166X12 ,166x13 , you are just raising the processor speed, to increase the board speed as a whole u hafta increase the ram speed aswell eg 176x11.5 ,standard practice is to first get the highest fsb possible first (rememebring to lower the multiplier as u do this) then to increae the multiplier to get the max speed of the processor.

[Overkill211]

Sorry, Solo. I'm not checking the boards regularly enough.

What I mean by cheap is not the price of the ram, but the component quality.
If you're using Pricewatch to shop, for instance, you should pretty much ignore anything that says "Generic" or "House Brand".
The component leaders that I'm aware of are Samsung and Nanya. (I'm not sure who Corsair uses, but their ram rocks.)

My own recent RAM purchase was 2 512meg Corsair XMS PC2700 sticks. (My new motherboard supports dual-channel mode for RAM. Kinda like RAM RAID.) The difference between their XMS and standard is mainly the CAS Latency (Usually abbreviated as CL, not to be confused with the naval use of that abbreviation for "Light Cruiser"). Their standard series PC2700 is rated with a CL of 2.5, which is about average for good quality ram now. Their XMS series has a CL rating of 2.0 (remember, this is measured in NANOSeconds), which leaves the door wide open for overclocking.
I don't overclock, I just like to have overhead, since home PCs and their OS's have become the product of so many compromises that they would do the government proud.:D
As you push your system faster than specified, timing becomes even more critical. Cheap RAM is designed to run near it's components' designed maximum function speed. There is little room for error, and their design lives are shorter to begin with. If you start overclocking with cheap RAM - have a fire extinguisher within reach.
Expensive ram gives you the advantage of overhead. If you only run it at it's design speed (as I do), it will function considerably longer than RAM designed for that speed. When you add overclocking to the mix, you can achieve some wicked results. An article I read showed that someone who'd bought some Corsair XMS PC2700 RAM was able to keep it functioning at PC3200 speeds without obvious instability.
So, in short - As with most things in life, you get what you pay for.

For those that wonder:
FG = Frigate
DD = Destroyer
CL = Light Cruiser
CA = Cruiser (sometimes Heavy Cruiser)
BB = Battleship (Or, for the Brits, DN = Dreadnought)

[FallenSoloSLS]

Bump.

Just got two sticks of PC2700 - one 256MB and one 512MB. Bumped up the memory speed and FSB to 333.

I then used Sandra and ran their burn in app. It ran great for 12 hours and then I figured it was good to go.

I've been running it about 2 weeks and it's GREAT! Major jump in startup times and I've yet to see any lag when playing Cata against 7 comps and the screen is filled with lots of little number function chewers.

.

[boolybooly]

Nice One ! :D

PS if you want advice from the like minded these b boards can be helpful http://www.amdforums.com/index.php?s=

Shuttle is at the bottom.

http://www.amdforums.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=27