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[immortal44]

Just wanted to say that the game looks awesome. Great to have a game where you don't just send you troops into the slaughter, but are able to use proper tactics. Looks like battles will be a tactical grind which is great.

I hope that the battles will be a decent size, in that forces are spread out, and that maybe there are sometimes skirmishes separate from the main battle. Eg squads spread out, holed up in buildings, guarding roads etc while a main attack is being carried out.

As far as troop numbers I think ~dow numbers is just perfect. Large enough that you don't just have small skirmishes, but small enough to keep the battles more personal and intense.

The style of damage is appealing, instead of hit points. Nice to see that a tank needs anti amour or another tank to take it out (unless there are some create moves infantry can pull off ;)).

The only thing I didn't like was the suicidal jeep in the trailer. I understand that it may not be like that in the actual game, just that he was a bit enthusiastic ya know??

Can't wait.

[Tesla]

i will probaly do the usual 'select all and pres A+click' thing though when i get bores :beer:

though with the increased grafics, total confusion and explosions going off all over the place, + better A.I. im wondering how it would show out on this game

[retroholyfire]

I think CoH should have larger maps and larger cap than DoW.

[Jimmythefoot]

Yeah it would also add more tactical flexibility and more chances to out maneuver the enemy in larger maps. Plus multi-prong attacks would rule.

[DatonKallandor]

You need to use flanking anyway - because of the support line mechanics.


Daton

[immortal44]

Well in DoW you can edit or effectively remove the caps.

As for map size, it'd be nice to be able to play huge maps but I can't see them getting too large because of the dynamic nature of the battlefields?

Hopefully maps will be at least as large as the dow maps. I tend to play 1vs1 on 512 maps, and when you consider that CoH should be a grind type game (especially towns since units can 'dig in') the maps will be sufficient in size to be able to maneuvre around the map.

What is important to me is for the AI in skirmish to be able to dig in, set up some kind of frontline, reinforce weak points, create diversions, pronged attacks, flank etc. If the AI can play a true territoral game then CoH should be awesome.

[Akranadas]

Yeah it should be awesome.

But I fear for 1 thing, the "OMG Tiger Tanks is OP!" talk.

[DatonKallandor]

Tiger? Panther!


Daton

[Starfisher]

Yeah, I can already see the awe-inspiring flame wars to result in the balance threads following COH's release.

It's a good thing we've got soul in here.

[Soulblighter]

But I fear for 1 thing, the "OMG Tiger Tanks is OP!" talk.
Fear for the people who create such threads.

But back on topic.

I agree with you immortal44, and hopefully in 10 days information starts to roll in. Whether it be interviews to just screenshots, any information at this point will be good. The latest video looks terrific, and it is obvious that the models and animations have improved greatly. Now we just need information on gameplay to backup this great looking title.

[Mogolov]

yeah, more gameplay details and hopefully, a release date.

Akranadas, whats does the "OP" mean?

[Akranadas]

Akranadas, whats does the "OP" mean?

Over Powered

[Mogolov]

ah cool, i get ya.

Yeah, godforbid the threads that will surface for that, and the posters that make them.

It will be interesting to see what levels of punishment will be dished out from either sides tanks, and what would be interesting also, is wheather or not we can capture abandoned vehicles...

Wonder if there will be any nice synckills? Like 3 troopers storming a tank with grenades or smg's?

Or perhaps some brutal hand-to-hand combat? ;)

[Jimmythefoot]

I just hope we dont see squads dancing away from hand to hand like in dow.

[Worf]

There is no strategy game where people don't cry about imbalances. So you better get used to it.

Besides, German Tanks were far better than their allied counterparts and were beaten by the sheer mass of enemy tanks. So that's what I expect to see in the game too.

[DatonKallandor]

CoH German tanks have better firepower and armor than the Allied ones. Allied one's are much faster though.


Daton

[LoneWolf666]

The Pershing's weren't bad at all... Though Sherman's seriously sucked. I expect the tanks to fill a support role, rather than being the ultimate juggernaughts of destruction, as they are used in other games.

Tanks are: shields for the infantry, source of supressing fire, anti-armor (though tank destroyers are better) and anti-infantry, can be mine sweepers etc. with specialised equipment. That's an impressive list, but... Sending tanks into a city without infantry support and expecting them to own everything... That simply shouldn't take place in a game that claims authenticity/realism.

I hope this game puts as much emphasis on the use of combined arms as possible.

[Soldier of Dest]

Yeah

I hope Infantry will also use Tanks as cover. Soldiers going behind Tanks while moving through the streets would be a cool situation :hover::hide:

[Tranj]

The Pershing's weren't bad at all... Though Sherman's seriously sucked. I expect the tanks to fill a support role, rather than being the ultimate juggernaughts of destruction, as they are used in other games.

Tanks are: shields for the infantry, source of supressing fire, anti-armor (though tank destroyers are better) and anti-infantry, can be mine sweepers etc. with specialised equipment. That's an impressive list, but... Sending tanks into a city without infantry support and expecting them to own everything... That simply shouldn't take place in a game that claims authenticity/realism.

I hope this game puts as much emphasis on the use of combined arms as possible.
Sendind a tank through the streets on it's own is inviting your opponent to make a pretty scrap metal sculpture. Combined arms is heavily emphasised in CoH.

[Chewin_gun]

If the game models using vehicles as cover I hope it will model blast damage to the infantry hiding behind them when they explode because IRL I would not stand too close to such a big target.

[LoneWolf666]

Sendind a tank through the streets on it's own is inviting your opponent to make a pretty scrap metal sculpture. Combined arms is heavily emphasised in CoH.

At last, a WW2 game which will see more than just "rocket infantry" and tanks in use!

[Cheech Marin]

Hmm, once again I see the "Superior German Technology" myth being propagated. Sure, the Tiger was a superb vehicle when it came to destroying other tanks. But it was not an unstoppable, invincible juggernaut.

The Sherman was never even designed to specifically destroy other tanks; it was meant to be used in the infantry support role. I also remember seeing a Sherman fail to destroy a Stug III assault gun (that's what the english translation is) at nearly point-blank range in one of the videos. Sorry, but that's not true either. At those close ranges, the tank to score the first hit is usually the winner of the engagement, even if it's "just a Sherman." Unless of course, that particular Sherman was firing at a Panther or Tiger.

[Twitch2396]

The germans biggest problem with their tanks was that they were always breaking down.

the Pershing was better than any german tank in the war.

A sherman shooting at the side of a tiger could knock it out at a maximum range of 900 meters(and that was with some luck)(i am just stating a fact not saying that the exact ranges should be included in the game), anywhere else and the shell bounces off and the tiger punches a nice clean hole through the sherman.

If the tiger was superb at destroying other tanks(which was what it was designed to do), wouldn't that mean that it was "superior german technology"?

[DatonKallandor]

Just shut up, will you? Its not important if a tank has such and such range or has 1 mph more speed than another. Its a GAME.


Daton

[LoneWolf666]

And, for gameplay purposes, Sherman's will suck and Tigers will own.

But for every Tiger he has, you field 4 Shermans. Not to mention you won't break a sweat when your tank column gets annihilated in an ambush. The same cannot be said for a commander who just lost 3 Tiger tanks.

[DatonKallandor]

Exactly. Also, the shermans are smaller and faster. Much better for flanking than the slow and big Tigers.


Daton

[Tesla]

so seems like america wil have the resourses and germany will have the elite then?

[LoneWolf666]

Just like it was. ;) I wonder just how much better will the "SS battle hardened fanatics" be than the green american troops.

[Klaus88]

"Ahem" The germens were not the "Elite team" not by a long shot and the Americans might have been green but they got the job done very well. The germen army was not what it had been four years earlier. Also, the "battle hardened SS" wasn't fighting Americans they were actually facing Caen and the British forces.

I really don't think that one-on-one the germens should be more then a match for the Americans this isn't true at all.

[Cheech Marin]

Well, I highly doubt that any battles in this game will take place at ranges beyond 900 meters, so if a Sherman hits a Tiger from the side, it should knock it out of action. But, seeing as how nobody cares about a realistic portrayal of WWII combat, it probably won't be that way in the game. *sigh*

[Soldier of Dest]

Well, the american hq assumed, that 5 shermans are needed to destroy a tiger.

The bad thing for the germans was, that the allies had this number of shermans.

The Tiger was the most feared tank. Allied tank crews often panic by spotting a tiger. (You often heard messages like 'Help! Help! Tiger tank!' on the radio) until then in 1944 it was forbidden to use the word tiger on the radio.

The Assault of Michael Wittmann on Villers-Bocage cost the 27 British Tanks (many Sherman Fireflies) and other forces like motorcycles and half tracks.

So the Tiger is a well armoured Tank, the problem was the movement and turning (turret) speed.

[retroholyfire]

German troops were like the romans. 1v1 they would lose but they work as a team and have great dicipline. German troops were better than the Americans since they were battle hardened. At the same time though they had been under stress etc etc. The Shermans were not meant for tank killing. They were designed to be fast, highly reliable infantry support that was easy to manufacture and they succeded in that role brilliantly. If Tigers didn't come out so late in the war allied tanks in D-Day would never have stood a chance.

[immortal44]

1vs1 they would lose? Doesn't make any sense considering you just said they were battle hardened and were better troops because of this than the americans.

[retroholyfire]

i was trying to empasise the teamwork idea not the 1v1

[Klaus88]

This is silly. Ok we need to remember something here, namely the germens were in some of the best defensive terrian in the world namely the hedgerows of Normandy France. This was the best place to be on the defense in the whole bloody war! That's how the Germens managed to give such a good account of themselves! Once they got out of the hedgerows it turned around. Only 20,000-40,000 germen soldiers even got out of france!

I'm gonna stop this right here but if a Germen rifle squad can take on an Allied rifle squad one-on-one with no support on either side or advantages offered by the ground and win every time then I will not be happy with the relic designers.

EDIT: battle-hardened? HA! one of the panzer divisions was made up of nothing but 16-17-18 year old boys from the Hitler Youth! Not exactly battle hardened veterns hhhmmm?

[Twitch2396]

Tigers didnt come out late in the war

the american rifle squad had many more advantages that the german one, the biggest one though is the garand, which is semi automatic, the germans had the bolt action k98.

[immortal44]

HA! one of the panzer divisions was made up of nothing but 16-17-18 year old boys from the Hitler Youth!

I saw Battle of the Bulge too!!! Seriously, germans were running low. 5 years of war on multiple fronts is pretty hard to sustain considering the population disadvantage.


namely the germens were in some of the best defensive terrian in the world namely the hedgerows of Normandy France. This was the best place to be on the defense in the whole bloody war!

I'd prefer the rubble of a nice big city.

Personally I'd be disappointed if infantry weren't reasonably equal.

[QUOTEThat's how the Germens managed to give such a good account of themselves![/QUOTE]

Yeh not bad for a single country to hold out that long against a much more populous, multi-national foe on multiple fronts.

[LoneWolf666]

AFAIK, Germans lost the war because of a crippled command structure - nothing could be done without the supervision of the utterly incompetent Fuhrer.

[Worf]

Well folks, this is no history channel discussion.
I'm gonna lock this since we went far off-topic.

If you want to know more on the subject, read a good book. Just don't watch an american movie about WWII.