Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 57

1.5 IG... 30 days later. [strategy guide]

  1. Dawn of War Senior Member  #1
    As imagined by Octopus Rex... Troubleshooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Surrounded by whitespace

    1.5 IG... 30 days later. [strategy guide]

    IMPERIAL GUARD (patch 1.5, +30 days)

    See what happens when you have time on your hands but cant play... you get to do analysis

    Below are the best bits of advice I have to IG players broken down by tiers. I tried to keep is short for each tier... with only the top 3 priorities (as I see them) for each tier broken down to the nuts and bolts.

    There are obviously more things to consider, and no strategy guide can make you an expert... but if you are having general problems in any tier with IG, please take a look at these bits of advice and try them out.

    I am posting some of Stephans replays in the battle archives: link here...->http://forums.relicnews.com/showthre...72#post1622572
    If you watch how he plays IG you will see most of the tier 0/1 tips in action. Good tutorial on how to keep your units out of direct conflict and how to execute a cap order. Its worth the time to watch these.. the guy balance IG to his preferences.

    Quick rules of thumb

    -----------------------------------------------------------

    Tips broken down by tiers

    -----------------------------------------------------------

    Other voices of wisdom from around the forum.

    -----------------------------------------------------------

    Sir Nicks Pile o' numbers.

    Last edited by Troubleshooter; 2nd Aug 06 at 7:13 PM.
    Ra Owa : AAHHHH!!!! ITS A ROCK!
    Troubleshooter : Wha... oh... Pfffttt... Prove it. :}
    Ra Owa : ... [sputtering] ... o.O ... Its SCIENCE!

  2. #2
    I don't play IG, but if I wanted to, I'd read this first.

    Well done.

  3. The Studio Senior Member Dawn of War Senior Member  #3
    this would be great in the tactica imperialis section
    they could use some more updated stuff

    by the way
    wonderful stuff Trouble
    very well written and even more fun to read then the side of a cereal box
    some stuff is basically common sense
    but others, they're worth their salt
    maybe IG do have a lot of potential left in them
    kodos

  4. #4
    Member The_Guardman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Trieste, Italy
    Great work! Should be moved to tactica and stiked!
    All heil Gygax.

    "Cry the Paladin for his mentor, cry the Succubus for her father."
    Thanks again for all of the hours of fun you have give me.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Word, very FRESH perspective on 1.5's IG - should be moved to Tactica forum asap.

  6. #6
    Raiden
    Guest
    Thanks Trouble for this write-up about IG. :thumb: Reading this gives me more confidence the next time I play this faction, and I realized that I have been playing them rather poorly and now I know why.

  7. #7
    For the newbies reading this and finding themselves short in cash~

    DO Get you global power upgrade ASAP when you hit T2. Its cheaper, and you need more than +60.
    TRY to have all your global upgrades before you teir up. Have both econ upgrades before T3, and both lvl2 econ upgrades before T4.

    And dont forget herospam in T0... You can have a CS with commie/preist, 3 commies for melee, AND 2 gmen squads renforced to the max faily early. That is a strong enough force to deal with a lot of other races forces. I have beaten 2 tac squads an a FC like that, simply have the CS attack one squad, the 3 commies the other, and have the gmen focus onto one squad. If they try tp pull out, set eveyone on ranged and FF the smallest squad. When killing the FC simply swarm him in heros.

  8. #8
    NOT Relic Stormsong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Europe
    Excellent post, troubleshooter! Some good advice there, thanks for that.

  9. General Discussions Senior Member Modding Senior Member Dawn of War Senior Member  #9
    Why shout... Octopus Rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    UK
    Wow. Very comprehensive. Especially the way the detail is kept up into T3/4. Many guides just give a BO or two and mainly cover the lower tiers.

    This should be in Tactica.

  10. #10
    primzahl13
    Guest
    Good Work Troublechutor! Finally someone wrote a guide.

    @ImmortalChaos
    Sounds interesting
    Could you post a BO or a Replay? I mean i'm gonna try this right away but it would be interesting to see how exactly you dealed with the tacs and the FC (!?)

  11. #11
    Elferx
    Guest
    My favourite combination on IG
    If i am attacking and they are attacking.
    FoF + CC units and lone range units. Esp love FS for her disrupting abilities.

    If i am attacking and they are retreating.
    Entanglement + Rangers + Heavy Fire.

    If i am retreating
    FoF
    LOL

    Really good thread btw, at least now i have some decent IG players online who can give me some challenge and fun. And also learned how to use Ig and insights to counter them. HEHE

  12. Gamers Lounge Senior Member General Discussions Senior Member  #12
    I'm on your head, lol Giant Moth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Call the Adaptus Administratus! This holy thread must go into the honoured Tactica Imperialis!

    PS: Troubleshooter, could you add another section to your guide where you explain the technologies of the Imerpail Guard, their priority level, and in which tier you should get them / how fast. And also, the use of sargeants? Are they worth having 100% of the time?

  13. #13
    omg i sense a great sense of IMBA coming from your guide.QUICK NERF IG (joking).
    Good job on the guide.It's going to be a great help to IG players(new and old).

  14. Dawn of War Senior Member  #14
    As imagined by Octopus Rex... Troubleshooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Surrounded by whitespace
    To all: Keep in mind that I still get my ass kicked in 1v1 Auto more than half the time (except on 4p maps where I reign supreme )

    These tips are good for getting the most from IG in 1.5, but they are by no means going compensate or IG's severly broken nature in tier 1.

    Dont get me wrong... Ig has potential to be playable - but I still find that a competent player, say over 1450 on the ladder will just cream you most of the time. There are so many ways to counter IG now that it hurts my brain to contemplate what might actually be considered a "safe" IG build. So far the only thing that makes sense is 2 gens early and get your toys fast... I just cant bring myself to do that yet... giving up SP's just runs too counter to my instincts.

    @Elfrex: Yep, entangle would be very costly on the first squad you pulled that on - hopefully that would trigger the "turtle response" in the poor unfortunate IG player. Eldar have always had IG's "number" in that match up - its really not different now.

  15. #15
    Forum Farseer Akranadas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland
    Just give me the word Troubleshooter when you think it's ready and I'll move it to Tactica

  16. Dawn of War Senior Member  #16
    As imagined by Octopus Rex... Troubleshooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Surrounded by whitespace
    Cool akranadas... I will give some thought on adding the tech-analysis to it, but I am still working out in my head how best to provide general advice on it.

    Tech options are pretty situation-specific. Seems like the only ALWAYS advice is the econ upgrades - since you are almost always behind the econ curve now.

    As for squad tech - I have my prefrences, but without doing better in the ladder, I would be spewing out theory craft.

    If there are any IG players with more specific advice in this regard... please share.

    Even if this goes in the tactica - it may get out-dated very quickly as tactics and conventional wisdom evolve. Thats why I put the +30 days in the title line, its just the way I have seen the race evolve over the last month. Also, there is a remote hope that there will be a hot fix that may alter IG significantly... not sure if the whole post would have to be revamped as a result.

    Let me think about it...

  17. #17
    Member Epilon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Mobile, AL
    Trouble could you just mention somewhere in the thread by what time IG should normally go to teir 2, just as you said about teir 1. Since IG shouldnt linger too long in there giving a timer for teching to teir 2 would help alot of new players just like your first one.
    You've reached the matrix service of Chemical Banking Insurance Policies. Our operators are masturbating right now, but your call has been placed on a bucket of stomach fluid; and will be attended by a double-talking robot in approximately 70,000 years. Please note that your personality may be monitored to improve our ability to ruin your life. Please vomit in a cup, if you do not want this to occur

  18. #18
    I can't see any mention of attaching and detaching of commies, trouble. Have newer test shown they shouldn't be used for CC?


    Daton

  19. #19
    ShadowWatch
    Guest
    well, i think it's not to say commies should not be used in CC if you have them. The idea is IG t1 is so weak that if you managed not to lose points is already good enough. and commie CC ing is more of an offensive act, which you shouldn't do and can't do effectivly given the current IG circumstances.

    only exception is on OR where i find the best build is 2 man cs + 2 commie(melee and tie up) and 2 squrds shooting. beware this build will lose effectiveness on 3 minutes mark( that's when then opponet have 3 or more shooty squad, which will dance and eat you commie one by one). You objective within the first 3 minutes are cap 3 points near your base and one of the top 2 points and fortify. do not contest for the middle if you opponet have any quility. the cramped space is a pathing nightmare and generally benifit more elite armies becasue ig can't fan out and maximize firepower. you probably need 3 Bunkers, covering top, middle and the first one at the base. IT is a sound investment, allowing you with mobility and defence flexibilities.

    after you done these things. you next objective is tech to t2 and in the mean time lauch some conter attacks.

    i'd like to introduce the concept of offensive IC. since IG t1 troopers are real crap IG need some form of heavy hitters, and the answer is the IC. Cheap in price and can be built realtvly fast, IC should be with you in any offensive. also the big build area is a IG specialty to make this strategy econmical.

    and this strategy works best on OR because every point is postioned closely to the next and one IC built on build area generate in one lp can reach the next stratigic point. Also, that's the reason why on OR the top point is more favouralbe than the middle point. what you do is using 3 tp and call down a IC on the edge of build area and mean while summon all the troops immdiatly follw the TP. this will creat a panic situation for the enemy also they face a delemma of chosing targets, some times they just scard away and abandon their outposts. IF they target the builders, run them back a bit and you guardsmen and commie and generals can take bit of free shoot, same applies, if troops are targeted run them back a little too, and it should be very simple to defeat the enemy when the IC is done.

    there are further benifits to this offensive IC build. once you banished the enemy and takne control of the point, it's already fortified. and if the offensive is not successful, you can run the troops in bunkers and tunnel back, otherwise you will lose many men retreat on foot. and at worse you should be albe to cause more death to the other side for cost. Also, they have further values in t2 as well. when a superior t2 army arrives, every bunker will act as a spotter for artys at the back which means the enemy will pay heavily in every step it advaced. while you just lose a 125 req worth building. And it's more of an IG feel, like a big iron claw with many bankers and turrets covering each other, choking the enemy slowly and almost unstoppable.

    i think the IC holds the future of IG warfare and it got great potentials
    Last edited by ShadowWatch; 1st Aug 06 at 1:06 PM.

  20. #20
    DukeRustfield
    Guest
    I had some replays of me losing to IG (THE HORROR!) as Eldar. But it was mostly me sucking and them being godlike. One "said" he was a former top 10 player.

    I found it to be a combination of:
    -RUN AWAY. You will not win ANY T0/T1 fights. Don't try.
    -LP/BUNKER what you can.
    -CS harrass. Take out an LP or two or builder. Retreat. Do again.
    -GRENADES. If they are massed infantry, nades will murderize them.
    -HAVE BUILDINGS/IC's positioned so you can always have 3 men inside providing base coverage in case of rush.
    -GET TO T2 ASAP.

    -At T2 it's combined arms. Sentinels are godlike and can effectively shut down any other T2 vehicle by any race. Nades can disrupt infantry well. If your micro is insane, you can do okay.

    But the fact remains that for the bulk of players (like 99%), IG are woefully underpowered compared to every other race. Your margin of error is really tiny, especially against ppl who know IG weaknesses.

  21. Dawn of War Senior Member  #21
    As imagined by Octopus Rex... Troubleshooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Surrounded by whitespace
    @Epilon: Its not a simple answer really.. IG start to hit a good stride in tier 1.5 after upgrades... if you have the enemy on the run, you can stay in 1.5 longer than if you are stuck in a mexican-stand-off.

    Giving players an artificial time to tech to tier 2 like - say - before 6 minutes might stunt an otherwise successful offensive move for fear of losing out on tech. On the other hand, if players always shoot for 6 minutes, then faster teching armies will mow them down with early land-speeders/falcons and the like.

    Its pretty situational... and something you cant really teach - people have to learn to read a situation and make good decisions about when to tech. I am notorious for taking too long to tech... so perhaps I am not the best person to ask about that

    @DatonKallandor : Shadow has a pretty good desctiption about the commie dynamic, so I will refer you to him. The main post is meant to address the most basic IG game mechanics that players should get familiar with - CC-commies, deathstars, and hero spam fall outside the range of what I was trying to get across... they are specilist tactics that more experienced players can toy with, but fot the vast majority of IG players who cant figure out how to make the army work in 1.5, the post is inteded to get their feet under them before frustration sets in.

    @Shadow: Read the above about advanced strats Bunker rushing and the like are fun, but highly gimmiky (i would know). They work only to a point and cost you troops that you will need for more than manning guns. Not to say that I dont like doing it -- I really REALLY do... but until players get the hang of keeping an IG force together in tier 1, gimmik builds should be left for later.

    I could go into specific builds and tactics that I have used with success - like massed psykers + kasyrkin w/o mech support... econ builds... 5 squad rushes... and the like, but they dont fit with the theme of the post which is just to nail down a good basic skill set that IG players should be familiar with.

    Now... if anyone (*looks for sir nick*) would like to provide me with some numbers on IG upgrades and thier effects, I can work them in to the main post with some general advice and put this thing to bed. Unless anyone sees some glaring flaw in the post that absolutely must go, I will let live in the tactica unless/until we get some balance adjustment from Relic OR some new conventional wisdom pops up.

    @Duke: you got alot of posts on IG, you want to put together a quote for the perls-o'-wisdom section? Something detailed but broad enough that it applies to more than a specific situation?

  22. #22
    So would you say being beaten by IG as any other race means you suck poopiehead? :O

  23. #23
    Member Hive_Node's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Deep shit
    I have a pretty good rush if you want to hear it just ask.

    Sluggas beat Dreads for cost

  24. #24
    tweekerninjoo
    Guest
    where's the 1.5 eldar version of this post
    My automatch score went from 1300 to, uh.....well I havn't won any games I don't think........

  25. #25
    I dont have a herospam replay done by myself that worked, although I have gotten it to work. I do recall one where Duke pulls it off in the beginning of a FFA.

    No, its not a 1v1, but they are completely uninterupted long enough for Duke to win the map control from a SM player.

    Here it is. It also shows some handy tips on winning a mass T4 situation!

  26. #26
    Yes, it's over there. SirNick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Glad to throw in a few numbers to aid discussion, because numbers are neat and help us to understand the game better.

    First things first -- as a handy reference, everybody needs to bookmark Slow_Runner's and Excedrin's DoW reference sites from my signature. Now. This will make things easier in the future for number-crunching.

    In particular, take note of build-times and perhaps damage per hit. When you've got the game-timer on and you've just hit Tier 2 and need to know how long you need to pull back to get that Basilisk out, this is where you'd want to look.
    By the way, it's going to be 1:15 after Tier 2 completes at the minimum with everything built instantly after the previous bit finishes to get that first Basilisk out.

    There's a lot of things here, so enjoy thumbing through them. This is mostly concerned with IG's Tiers 1 and 2, so go elsewhere for now for your Kasrkins and Ogryns.

    ********

    data on Imperial Guardsmen and their attachable Commanders

    ********

    Techpriest Enginseers

    ********

    Imperial Guard Tactica Control Researches

    ********

    data on Imperial Guard Command Squad

    ********

    Guardsman Weapons data

    ********

    Imperial Guard Vehicles

    ********

    The Very Neat Vindicare Assassin

    ********

    So, hope that all this helps a bit for getting a feel for how much firepower to throw in a given situation and how long it takes to amass it. I'm sure that there's more that's missing, but this should be a good start. Eventually I'll get around to Tier 3 and Tier 4's Baneblade as well.

    EDIT: Earthshaker Round ability for Basilisks added under IG Vehicles, potential personal bias subtly removed, Kasrkin/Ogryn Quarters deteching note added in the Tactica Upgrades section. Bonus notes about all attachable commanders and Techpriest Enginseers! Continue to shout out as needed. Thanks all.

  27. #27
    Member The_Guardman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Trieste, Italy
    - I am curious to know the Earthshaker's stats... 600+ damage IIRC and area range...10?
    - Basilisk range is 120, whit a minimal of 10.
    - Mechbay allow to build Chimerae too ever if deteched.
    - IC allow to build KK and Ogryns ever if Deteched, if you reserched them, but not standard IGs.

  28. #28
    Sekhura
    Guest
    Probably the most informative thread I have read on these Forums.

    Incredible stuff

    --
    Sek

  29. Dawn of War Senior Member  #29
    As imagined by Octopus Rex... Troubleshooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Surrounded by whitespace
    Thanx alot nick... now I have to find a way to merge your post with the OP unless a moderator can edit both and merge them for me

    I am still leery of providing advice about which upgrades to buy and when, just because there are so many play styles and situations that change what players would find to their advantage.

    The only upgrade that I consider manditory is the Death Before Dishonor - it basically makes all your GM tier 1 (though weak) units rather than tier 0 units (especially weak).

    Arkandadas ... can you help out on the merge? If not I will play cut/paste later and get it buttoned up.

  30. #30
    Sovereign
    Guest
    You forgot the most important part of the guide!

    How to cope with losing all the time:

    Friends, we of the IG must learn to accept defeat as anyone with half a brain capable of using the attack move command will beat you. Thus, it is recommended that IG players do not have any sort of heart condition, high blood pressure, vulnerability to seizures, or other maladies that can be set off by extreme anger.

    ----------------------------------------------

    Anyway, what have we learned from this guide? As Blink suggested, anyone who loses to IG during this patch does indeed suck. There is no way you should lose to an IG player. Given the stats provided to us by Sir Nick, we now know that the following are pointless / waste of cash:

    Commisars (especially in tier 1)
    Body Armor upgrade (50 hitpoints? When the enemy deals more than that per hit to the guardsman usually?)
    Commisars (in Command Squad)
    Chimeras (false damage advertisement, transporting useless, waste of money)
    Sentinel / Hellhound (only useful in triplicate, which is LOTS of money, money that GM absorb for upgrades and reinforcements. Easily chewed up by enemy vehicles / AT)
    Basilisks (not advertised, but losing money per shot is annoying given how expensive IG units are.)
    Baneblade (half the guns seem to not work, waste of cash)

    I'd like to know the damage of IG building weapons, since they don't seem to do as they should vs the appropriate enemy. And is there a difference between having a fully upgraded guardsman squad bunkered vs a techpriest? If not, then there is NO reason to even bunker your men, since bunkering eliminates a good portion of your firepower. It is also a dumb idea since the buildings have nearly NO range.

    Really, there is no hope in tier 1, barely any hope in tier 2. Hope lies in tier 3 with kasrkins, ogryns, leman russes, and the vindicare assassin (which no IG player knows how to use since we never REACH TIER 3 IN A MATCH) Too bad in Tier 3 terminators and PSM arrive to clamp down on whatever hope you had in reaching Tier 3.

    Want to know how to win as IG?

    There is an easy way to win as IG. First, you click on the RACE button, and change your race to something else than IG. That way, you stand a better chance against the enemy, and, if the enemy is IG, you win easy!

  31. #31
    Commisars (especially in tier 1)
    Body Armor upgrade (50 hitpoints? When the enemy deals more than that per hit to the guardsman usually?)
    Commisars (in Command Squad)
    Chimeras (false damage advertisement, transporting useless, waste of money)
    Sentinel / Hellhound (only useful in triplicate, which is LOTS of money, money that GM absorb for upgrades and reinforcements. Easily chewed up by enemy vehicles / AT)
    Basilisks (not advertised, but losing money per shot is annoying given how expensive IG units are.)
    Baneblade (half the guns seem to not work, waste of cash)
    Ehem, commies do very good damage melee T1, and are the only thing that stops your men running like furry animals untill you have DbD.

    Omg, no wonder you are losing if you aren't getting body armour.

    Commisar in the CS has the highest health in the squad. He does almost as much damage as the prsist, and has high shooting damage. The strongest CS combo is preist commie.

    Chimaras do high damage, and in a pack, they bring down everything quickly.

    And, you cant say that stuff you have to buy in pacs isnt good, because the other guy has to spend just as much money on what your pack is pwning.

    Basislicks dont lose money per shot every time. I for one have never had the bug, and i believe it noly happens when you use a lot of earthshaker rounds. Plus they do fucking uber damage. 1-2 basis is all it takes to remove a huge infantry advantage the other team migh have had.

    Baneblade is probably the 2nd best uber for actual fighting. His disruption is just excelnt, and had high durability. Plus 3 builders can work on him at a time.

    Get your facts straght man, IG isn't as bad as orks were in 1.41.

  32. The Studio Senior Member Dawn of War Senior Member  #32
    sovereign, you make me depressed
    that's a very pessimistic attitude you're weilding
    ha!

    well
    IG might be difficult to play, but they are seriously not beyond hope.
    people just need some adjusting and skill

    and my pity for the ork had completely diminished.
    i loath them now

  33. #33
    Member The_Guardman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Trieste, Italy
    Sovereign, it is better if you change played race or your attitude. IG is in bad shape, but not as bad as you say.

  34. #34
    Member Briarus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    in an engine that "runs on hate and tears"
    Great work!!!

    i looked at the stats for a fully loaded chimera back in 1.41 and it looked like it did comprable damage to the leman though the cost was more when you included the troops. is this still true? was it ever true? or did i read the dps wrong?

  35. #35
    Out of curiosity, what would you do against a warlock rush as I gather that the main threat for IG is losing a squad, then entangle must screw you right up?

  36. #36
    This is really well done, but also shows how pathetic is IG in 1.5

  37. Dawn of War Senior Member  #37
    As imagined by Octopus Rex... Troubleshooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Surrounded by whitespace
    So would you say being beaten by IG as any other race means you suck poopiehead? :O
    On some maps IG have a real advantage over most races because of the uber build time and tier 0 invulnerablity of Tech priests.... on other maps IG hit tier 2 and are neigh unstoppable with bassilisk fire support, if you can get there.

    Losing to IG means you didnt tac-mass Otherwise, a properly run IG player is only slightly handicapped vs. other races - and as usual the first 30 seconds and cap order will generally decide the game anyway barring mirrors. (in 1v1) And as I mentioned.. in team matches - even with 2 IG on a team... IG really shine - its just 1v1 on 2 player maps where IG take it in the posterior.

    Out of curiosity, what would you do against a warlock rush as I gather that the main threat for IG is losing a squad, then entangle must screw you right up?
    Bunkercreep... keep alternating sides you attack on and put turrets down to punish any lax pathing. Tech to GL's and stay in range of your turrets/bunkers. On maps like shrine, if you can keep your LP's, you will beat a worlok rush.... Rangers are the real problem... but yeah, losing a squad is almost always a crippling event for IG due to the high cost of replacement.

    @Sovergn: Immortal already put the smackdown on ya... I just want to point out that you VASTLY underestimate both commisars and Chimeras.

  38. #38
    Yes, it's over there. SirNick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    My OP edited to reflect things pointed out by Trouble and The_Guardman - Earthshakers, upgrade bias = nono, deteching notes.

    I checked the earthshaker_round ability code and it's got a bit where it adds 75/75 to the cost of firing the regular Earthshaker Cannon (the weapon on the Basilisk, not the ability), perhaps that's the source of the bug?

    Also, I too wish to vouch for Commisars, especially in Tier 1. Their melee and health properties are very valuable, and given the note I was quoted on in Troubleshooter's OP in this thread about how being in melee reduces ranged damage taken and vastly reduces morale damage taken, an attached Commisar in a squad doing melee will make a large impact on the longevity of the Guardsman squad. Regenerating 3 HP/second in Tier 1 where all other non-hero units in the game regenerate 0.5 or 1 HP/second is a very powerful thing.

    Thing with Chimeras is that a fully-loaded Chimera indeed has something like 140-180 DPS to things, but the damage is spread out over seven guns likely to be shooting seven things, and even a vanilla 4-man Guardsman squad will do more DPS standing outside the Chimera. The guns are a neat feature if you are transporting things, but not something you want to make the centerpiece of your offense. Techpriests are also too valuable and too few to count as a reliable gunner for Chimeras.

    Using Chimeras to transport Ogryns to go base-bashing is a very, very effective thing to do, also.

    Hmm. Off to go edit my OP with Techpriest data.

    EDIT: Done with that!

    Anyhow, I want to emphasize that these numbers I provide are merely numbers for the Imperial Guard alone. There's a lot more numbers out there for the four (soon to be six!) other races, and there's a lot of interaction between them. Please use this data as reference for shaping build order timing and gauging what firepower you'll be able to inflict on a Defiler compared to a Dreadnought, for example.
    Last edited by SirNick; 2nd Aug 06 at 2:39 PM.

  39. #39
    I gots a question. Wont having nades for your guards damage your CS in early tier if you try to atatck. While Cs is CC'ing and you attack with nades, your CS will get knocked back and get friendly fire dps.

  40. The Studio Senior Member Dawn of War Senior Member  #40
    mostly now, the CS is set on ranged stance. to avoid the gernades

    it's Dukerustfield's coined "deathstar". it usually consists of a priest and comissar in addition to the general.
    and once the uncommon valor is researched, it's three commies and a priest. it has enough DPS to rape any infantry that wanders too close. and if they try to engage them in cc, it does even more damage, though less then all out priests.

    and due to a odd number thing, the "deathstar" is more effective against LPs then an all priest group.

  41. Dawn of War Senior Member  #41
    As imagined by Octopus Rex... Troubleshooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Surrounded by whitespace
    I actually dont worry about the nades hitting the CS... the effect not so noticable that you need to sweat it unless you are talking like 12 nades all hitting in the area of the CS... generally you just target the squad the CS is NOT tieing in CC anyway, so unless you are talking about LP takedown, Nades FF does not really factor most of the time.

    Hey nick...
    They break at 0 morale, unbreak at 30 morale, and must spend a minimum of 12 seconds broken.

    Every dead Guardsmen will reduce morale by 30 in-game.
    I thought it was 60 morale loss per Squaddie... ???

  42. #42
    Yes, it's over there. SirNick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    That's the coded value for morale loss, indeed. However, that damage is reduced by morale armour, so the net effect is that only 30 morale is lost in-game.

    Other races have a value of 40 for losing a member, but because of that morale armour thing they only lose 20 morale when a member dies.

    It's easily seen by watching a few replays in slow-motion.

    This is a thing that's been floating around since DukeRustfield made that post a month and a half ago about morale rates for Tier 1 units, and it was found that IG Guardsmen had a morale_death rating of 60 instead of 40 like everyone else. By the time it was found that it's reduced by morale armour like every other morale damage value in the game, the 60 morale/death figure had spread like wildfire.

  43. Dawn of War Senior Member  #43
    As imagined by Octopus Rex... Troubleshooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Surrounded by whitespace
    Thanx for clearing that up - though it still seems like my squads break with 2 casualties - but that could just be the morale effects of the weapons shooting them too. (and the fact that I am a lousy tech-monkey and forget my tactia )

    Unless anyone else has a good reason to hold this back.. I am happy with the main post now... its a hideous beast of a post now - there is literally a ton of information there.

    This could be the most well documented - BROKEN race to date

    Now if relic would just release a hot fix to make the damn thing obsolete

  44. #44
    valiant_rhino
    Guest
    Always had trouble playing w/ IG- thx for the tips, nice job.

  45. #45
    Member The_Guardman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Trieste, Italy
    Great Nick
    Missing:
    - recharge time of Assasin scope
    - HP of attachable heroes (according to Slow_Runner they should be different from CS heroes)

    Out of topic:
    is the DR morale damage changed from 1.41 to 1.5 patch? They seem to broke SM more easly, despite the damage nerf.

  46. #46
    Shooter, what would you, as expert, recommend as quick hotfix?


    Daton

  47. #47
    BeserkWraithlor
    Guest
    Very nice guide, and I appreciate the efforts you make, so that IG would still have a chance in multiplayer. Great job trouble, as always.

  48. Dawn of War Senior Member  #48
    As imagined by Octopus Rex... Troubleshooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Surrounded by whitespace
    Shooter, what would you, as expert, recommend as quick hotfix?
    I consider myself more of a coach than expert - experts tend to come with higher auto scores... if I were to call myself an expert at anything its playing support to experts. I tend to find my best game in covering for hard teching allies, or doing combination strikes in team matches... or secureing mapcontrol for my team - this is part of why I am only about 1350 with IG in automatch - no allied strats or wierd builds to play with - just raw agression.

    BUT! If I were going to suggest a hot-fix (read: simple to implement) for IG to shore up their tier 0/1 problems, it would come in the form of cheaper initial squads... say in the 120 neighborhood - to allow the IG player to get to 10 pop of GM quickly and reinfoce those squads to a level that puts IG tier 0 on par with light tier 1 engagemnts while the IG player techs. IG need to be able to at least hold thier 1/2 of the map to get their defenses up and tech started... as it is they struggle on some maps to maintain their economy while working up to tier 1 units. And unlike elite races (SM) IG units cant bypass LP's and harrass deep in enemy territory since their units cost too much to lose, and are too weak if caught by LP2's or enemy units.

    The reduction in cost wont change the weak nature of the tier 0 IG unit - thus balance is maintained in team matches as well as 1v1 - it just allows the IG player to opt for 2 possible build orders - mass heavy tier 0, or balanced tier 1. As it is you cant hope to win most of the time if you rely on tier 0 at all.

    I have heard from others that Relic is considering such things as increased sight range on IG. I would like to see that too, but I fear what increased sight range + Grenade Launchers and/or Bassilisks would do...

    Either IG need better starting morale (potentially IMBA in team matches) or a cost reduction to allow better tier 0 performance.

  49. #49
    smerles
    Guest
    Hello Troubleshooter. Thank you for your very helpful guide! Exactly what I as a newbee searched for.
    Am I allowed to translate it into german and post it to the forums of dawnofwar.de?

  50. #50
    ShadowWatch
    Guest
    i think if they get an initial squd would be good..

    the problem i see it is if he enemy use anything to cap you outside post theres 0 chances for you to get it back without bleed youself white. no matter how many guradsmen you pump out, they won't do a dime in anyform of offence. so i'd rather have something like 10 second or so time to make sure IG can secure that important outpost

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •