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#51
Zany - Perhaps to keep some of the old-school flavor of the conscripts, you could just have an armband on them that's team-colorable. Basically, in the heat of battle the Guard gives 'em their weaponry and some cloth that's the same color as the Guard unit's colors, so that they can tell 'em apart from the standard gun-toting citizen.
If you think you might be interested in that idea, I could probably even modify the skins for you so as to enable it.
Hi All,
Yes, I certainly did say that I had an unhealthy addiction to the NPC/PDF troops from DOW. And I still have. Just remember though, conscripts are not NPC/PDF, they are IG conscripts who belong to the same regiments as the regular IG that they serve alongside. As such, they should be (at least) wearing the same colour scheme as the IG, only with a white stripe on their helmets to denote them as conscripts.
I certainly don't mind using the NPC/PDF to represent conscripts (Zany Reaper has given them a white stripe on their helmets), but I would like to see them as teamcolourable to match the regular IG from the same regiment.
I believe that fneep is currently working on a teamcolourable NPC/PDF model, with additional weapons choices. Maybe you could contact him in regards to sharing.
regards
sunray
I'd also appreciate it if you followed the previous instructions I gave that'd help youZany, I all appreciate you taking out the time to help me out.
I'll ask Carcharodon about team-colouring the conscripts. However, I make no promises. I'm not that good at TCing myself.
Carcharodon has more knowledge on this than I do, or is just more bothered about it than I am.
-EDIT-
I'm attempting to upload & send the next version of the mod to Filefront now.
Oh, & my WTP agent accepted the offer to 'colour the conscripts.'
Last edited by Zany Reaper; 9th Sep 06 at 7:51 AM.
Leader & (a) modeler/texture artist/animator of the
Closer-to-codex mod files - To expand your mod.
Codex Toolbox project - for furthur mod expansion!
One more thing:
Well, this mod certainly isn't for everyone...
The new units, that I saw, are really awesome. I played the orks and managed to build a few of the new vehicles - well done Zany.
But the balance of this mod... I gave up playing the second time a falcon grav tank wandered into my well defended base and leveled it before I even noticed. It's just not my speed - I prefer more deliberate, slower, methodical RTS with emphasis on the S. The durability of all the units is just way too low for my tastes, the damage way too high, the defensive buildings useless.
But thats a user preference thing. Aside from that, I think the addition of all these new units is really excellent work.
New version uploaded. The 1st posthas been edited for the slightly more revised version (download link).
I am downloading the file. Looks sweet
... and the World is no longer what it used to be.
And of course, the important question... is the new version 1.5 compatable?
What do you mean? Ah, well you'd be a good candidate to test it on!
Lemme just add the vehicle's 2nd armour values for the curse of the machine spirit thing (next version).
1.5 and 1.51 compatable, any chance of a release with normal damage values? as in a patch?
What do you mean by normal damage values? I sure as hell hope you're not refering to the long, boring & slow damage values that Dawn of War uses?
The modded damage values are one of the big aims in the mod. Fast-firing shooting weapons have been severely weakened though, so that most shooty infantry don't rip close-combat things to shreds as easily as before.
i meant the dow values, just wondering, sometimes i cant be bothered with the game play of the TTRU mod, i have to be in the mood for a quick reflex game
I'll put in a request for lower damage values as well. I love the new units, but the game just isn't fun when everything dies before you can even get your camera over to where the shooting is. Even worse, it seems that ranges are not the same for all races.. IG missile turrets were firing across what looked like almost half an 8 player map, orc waagh rokkit upgraded towers weren't firing at a tank about 3 screen inches in front of them. Eldar dark reapers and guardian squads are outranged and slaughtered by ork shoota boys? Then we turn around, and 2 squads of eldar rangers held off the entire orc army including vehicles for 20 minutes because of the range and damage they do, nothing could come close. Comon, this is a little silly.
Awesome units.. no fun to play. Infantry is completely useless, I've watched 1 turret cut down 3 squads and a orc boss before they even got in range to shoot at it. Heck, if you could just post instructions on how to modify the weapon values, I'll happily do it myself, just don't know how.
Yeah, I uploaded version 1.1 on the 1st post here.
Download that, & the damage values are a bit more like tabletop, rather the fast-firing weapons are a lot like it.
sounds very exiting! downloading now, but i can allready say that exelent job!
I love the mod but I think Units sight range is to long.
2 Defilers killed my base and I do not even reach them.
I like fast fights but I think the damage is still to high.
Heros have no chance to reach turrets and Vehicles dominate the Game absolutely.
I like to play the campaign with this mod but i can't win the first map because the Defilers kill my army before they can reach the doors.
Otherwise great work I love the new Unitis like the Shadowsword. I like fast fights but I think they are too fast now (version 1.1)
Keep the good work! :bandit:
(Sorry for the bad english)
well i played several games and... you got some serious nerfing to do here
but the good news first, i dont want to be a nag. i really liked the new models. shooting range was interesting as it is now more "realistic(?)" and i mean that those bolter finally shoot those shells over 10 metres. the eldar sight was good point of fluff. as psycics they can see more of the battlefield than others. good idea.
by nerfing i mean that shooting. every closecombat unit in game is useless now as the SM team can annihilate anything within seconds. it really kills the game as even hardest of AIs falls to 1-2 SM squads. with bolters.
great work! keep it up! and im waiting to see rest of the eldar superheavy tanks ;o)!
As many others should have said it before, the big problem in your mod, zany, is that its really hard to play because we spend a lot of time to build an army and it is destroyed in a few minutes (essentially for the orks and imperial guard).
Then, just a thing to change : this horrible (for poor guards) damage system. I won with just 2 basilisks which was firing from my base because I destroyed all the ennemy base!
By the way, I noticed that IG heavy weapons teams don't work as they're meant to.
Its a good work after all, so keep up the excellent model, fx and animation!
#68
Haven't had a chance to download 1.1 yet, getting it now...
Lork4: Are you referring to the lack of deployment on the HW teams? 'Cuz I think that's supposed to be fixed now, or at the very least a solution was mentioned earlier in this thread.
I played a game yesterday, and i say that the mod is not bad. Here is a few things you could add:
B A L A N C E
You could fix some voices
Sight and range needs to be nerfed
More new units
Persuade Riker2800 to join our mods, & we'll release a normal damage value one too.
Basilisks are supposed to be able to fire at very long ranges & be powerful. That's what they can do in tabletop.
Why, what suggestion do you have to balance basilisks out? There's already a limit of 3 on them anyways.
However, the system for limiting vehicle groups worked! Leman russ variants have a maximum of 3 altogether, of any type, as they now use the pop cap resource too.
It simulates the heavy support cap in tabletop.
I'm thinking of adding this to basilisks & the super-heavy tanks too, so that it's not too easy to go & have 3 basilisks as suport fire whilst mowing everything else down with leman russes.
Anyways, I'm gonna have much less time for this mod. Real world issues & school you see.
However, the damage values will still be similar to that of on tabletop. That's the point of the mod!
The damage values IMO are the most fun part. I love them, & won't remove them for this.
As I say, get Riker2800 to team up, & 2 versions can be released.
Well, I may be no Riker2800, but if anyone can give me some pointers on modding the damage values, I would be happy to put some time in on this. And to cut off the obvious, yes, I have looked into the modding forum, and downloaded the mod tools, but all the examples and instructions there go over how to set up your new mod, not how to work on a mod that has directories full of raw .RGD files. I figure the info that needs work is under Data/attrib/weapon, the directory that has an rgd file for each weapon in the mod, but I can't figure out how to work with said rgd files.
You'd have to download & use say - Gniarf's RGD editor, & use that to edit things.
Bear in mind however, that there're probably over 200 weapon files there in the mod.
However, the current damage values here that I have - I think that they're some of the best I've ever played with. I'd be interested to see who could make them more fun though, because that'll be unlikely seeing as most other DOW players prefer the slow & boring way of playing.
That's what made me stop playing original DOW for about a month. I got bored of the damage values, but then I found that I could mod, & so I created this mod blah blah blah personal stuff...
I'll give it a shot and see what I come up with. I have to admire the work you did, getting all this stuff put in, all the models, etc. It's just, as has been said, at least some of us want the units we build to last more then 2 seconds when fired on.
Edit: Ok, Relic didn't go out of their way to make this simple, did they?
Second edit: Hooray for research. Dived into the advanced modding forum, found the info I needed, found the damage values. It's definately going to be a pretty serious job to hit everything, but I'm going to take a shot at it.
Last edited by Kurgan2; 11th Sep 06 at 1:32 PM.
Croaxleigh, to answer you about the IG HWT, they don't set up their weapons! The model work (the guard with the Heavy bolter in a bag) but it just stay as it is and doesn't deploy its weapon or fire with its laser rifle...
Zany : I agree with you that basilisks are meant to be powerful at a ver huge range but if you make it to be able to destroy the ennemy base in a few minutes (average 5 min), its just that is too easy! I don't critisize, I just want to do an useful remark.
Zany Reaper,
You deserve a very sincere congratulations. As far as I am aware, your mod is the first to make the mortar HWT available to build, and actually work. The firing and projectile FX may not be all that great, but at least it works. So, a big well done on that. Keep up the good work.
I understand both sides of the argument, as far as the amount of time it takes to kill an infantryman in the mod. Possible solution, accuracy percentage of the different weapons, like the IG lasgun for instance.
Another example of the use of the accuracy settings is for different levels of experienced troops. Mods that have IG veterans, regulars, and conscripts, have three different lasguns. Each with a different percentage of accuracy. E.g. conscripts 33%, regulars 60%, veterans 80%. It just requires triplacating the lasgun rdg file, and giving them three different names. And of course, changing the hardpoint reference in the ebps "guardsman" troop rgd file. This is one way, of many possible ways, around the problem. A little time consuming though, if you are going to change all weapons.
regards
sunray
Kurgan: Go for it
Lork4: As I say, I'll add Basilisks to the heavy support limit, so that having basilisks WILL reduce the amount of Leman Russes the IG player can have.
The Super-heavy tanks will also be added to the cap, but will still take up only one point, despite being far more powerful (increased support cap requirement will fix that).
Sunray - Conscripts have an accuracy setting on them to make them overall less accurate in general combat altogether. However, I don't think that it's that extreme. I might as well just change it some more.
This basically means that I won't have to make another weapon type.
That signature makes a lot of people warm inside. It affects me too.
As for the Mortar FX - I didn't do anything to the model.
It was deliberately removed from DOW Pro as it was AI targetted.
However, seeing as the TTRU mod increases the weapon ranges stupendously, I doubt that's much more of an issue.
By the way, just because i'm curious : Have you deleted the fog of war in your mod or just in the special map? (I forgot its name but its a map specially created for your mod...)
Hi All,
A few thoughts on damage/accuracy, how quickly soldiers die, and other things.
I believe that Zany Reaper has actually got the amount of damage required to kill an infantryman right. They shouldn’t really be able to take too many hits, before being disabled. And of course, when infantry are caught with nowhere to take cover, they die quickly.
This brings us to the next point. Cover. This should play a big part in the survival time of a soldier. All infantry should survive much longer in cover. That’s the way it is in real life. Of course the bigger the firepower that is directed at them, the less time they should survive in that cover (e.g. fired at by Leman Russ cannon). Most maps that are not just simply flat desert, should be made with plenty of cover.
As stated previously, accuracy should also play its part. And veteran troops should be more accurate than regulars, who should be more accurate than conscripts. No weapon (or soldier) should have more than 80 – 85% accuracy, unless it’s a sniper.
Another game I have played does soldier damage in a different way. After an infantryman takes a certain percentage of damage (health bar decreases past a particular point), the soldier falls to the ground, and no longer moves. Once this happens he is not fired at by the enemy (and he no longer fires at the enemy). If you win the engagement, you move your medic to within a particular radius of wounded soldiers and they start healing. Once they heal past a certain point (percentage of their health bar), they get up and become functional again, retaining their squad membership. Although this requires a bit of micro-management, it is certainly more realistic than just teleporting squad reinforcements in from nowhere.
Speaking of reinforcements. Would it be possible, when you build (call for) reinforcements, that they are created (spawned) at the HQ/Infantry barracks, and then move on foot to the squad they are called to? This way you would have to secure your lines of communication (supply lines), so that the enemy could not halt your flow of reinforcements. And of course it means that severely depleted squads need to be temporarily removed from combat to await reinforcement. Of course, if you have researched Valkyrie transports, you should still have the alternative of airlifting your reinforcements in to the battle area as well.
Just some things I believe should be considered, if they are possible. I believe that the game still has a lot of extra potential. And to achieve this potential I think it needs to be taken further away from being the real time click fest that it, to a large extent, still is.
P.S. That's what the wave smilie is there for. I want people to feel as good about DOW as I do. After all DOW/W40K is our hobby, and we should feel good when we are involved in it.
Regards
sunray
dreamer
Perhaps you should reduce the accuracy of everything to compensate for the instant slaughter factor.
Hi, I tried the mod, and here are my thoughts on it.
While the new instant slaughter factor adds much strategic depth, the Orks have gone from being spamming powerhouses, to near inefficacy since their two new heavy ordinances (the Battlewagon and the other thing) are bugged into a oblivion, their cannons dont fire at times and other times they fire but do no damage, and sometimes their turrents are not there, literally. For instance, the Grott tank rarely fires it's turret, only it's gun.
The new content is great, but much of it is too bugged for enjoyment.
The Eavy Boyz, what is there prupose since all infantry die instantly?
Sunray - what modifier would you suggest for cover purposes? Add 50 to the armour value of affected infantry (depending on the type)?
This will basically protect them almost as well from big ordnance weapons as from fast-firing guns, except that the big powerful weapons are still so powerful.
Thorgoras - I take it that you're up against marines, Chaos or IG right?
Boltguns are still too powerful in version 1.1, so I've weakened them to about half damage for the future.
As for lasguns, that's undecided.
DO remember that guardsmen are more expensive than slugga boyz though (per guardsman that is).
Sunray - unfortunately, your other suggestions would probably require mods to the game engine.
Zany Reaper: would it be possible to repalce the cover bonus with an evade chance for ranged attacks? so that infantry in cover would be extremely hard to hit? maybe make it so that certain area attacks (e.g. flamethrowers), ignore this, while others deal primairily morale damage but very little physical damage (e.g. heavy artillery)?
@ Zany Reaper,
Actually, the Orks would be fine if their new tanks worked properly. For instance the Battle Wagon (the thing with two rokkit launchers) doesn fire it's rokkits very often. The Gortt tank almost NEVER fires it's artillery. If these were fixed there wouldnt be a problem.
I tried the current version 1.1 and the new ranges for the vehicles are pretty good but when it comes to the infantry they just get cut down instantly.
Last night i removed the squad limit by copying the file from the TRUE WAR mod and putting it in V1.1 and i went up against the Orks.
They must have sent at least three or four hundred orks and dozens of those little orky tanks and they were all wiped out by several bolter platforms that had the missile upgrade.
I think that with the longer ranges and the units setup were they die much faster [which is true to life though] that:
Squad limits should be removed
Squads should be much larger [minimum of 20]
More powerful weapons for the Grunts on the ground
I preferred the shorter ranges of V1.0 but this is just my opinion.
I have not found another mod that has all these units which of course i love to battle against a large range of different units.
The one thing that i have not seen yet is the AI deploying and useing the IG heavy weapons units.
I can't wait to see what else you guys are planning to to add in the next version...if there is one.
Maybe alot more units from the forgeworld site like those mechs and maybe more Ork tanks.
Outstanding work guys
strange...as wonderfull as it may be,i'm still...up here... floating...and no one even seems to notice.
Well, I don't know if such a thing exists. Accuracy modifiers affect the squad in the cover, not the enemies.would it be possible to repalce the cover bonus with an evade chance for ranged attacks? so that infantry in cover would be extremely hard to hit?
Thoragoras - the rokkit launchas have a ROF of 5 seconds. Don't know if that's too slow?
What should you recommend to it?
Shall I reduce the support cap it takes up?
Remember that Battle wagons ARE tougher than Eldar Falcon grav tanks. The Lobba is an artillery weapon, so it won't fire on the move. It needs to be upgraded.
Missile turrets holding off an Ork horde? That sounds a bit off.
How many did you have? 20?
Shall I put a limit on such turrets then, apart from Waagh banners?
As for the AI deployment of the HW teams - I don't know how to program them to deploy. Thudmeizer could really help me here though.
As of such - Orks could do with another tank, but what?
An Ork Gargant would be cool, but I'm not gonna model nor texture one. Animating's my type.
Yeah perhpas reduce their ROF a little maybe to 3 seconds. Also, waht about the grott tank thing?
4 seconds for the rokkits then.
Also, the grot tanks should have a ROF of 3 - 4 seconds. They are short ranged though.
Again, I'll look at it.
Looted Basilisk, just needs to be re-textured to look rusty, and grots reloading and firing.As of such - Orks could do with another tank, but what?
Sluggas beat Dreads for cost
Randomized Buggies with rockets, skorchas, ramming spikes, wreckerballs etc. That would make the side look nicer and (with rokkit and scorcha) provide cheap anti-tank solutions.
Hivenode - won't that be a bit cheesy?
Orks already have lobbas for artillery.
Sounds interesting though. However - we'd need a new vehicle building for the bigger things like the Squiggoth & Battle Fortress 1st.
Buggies have exactly the same profiles as wartraks in tabletop. IMO, there isn't much point of including them.
Adding skorchas & big shootas to the current Wartraks would also annoy players more as the best weapons for the Wartrak are the rokkit launchas & bomm chucka.
Ok, but as a fair compromise for the lack of powerful Ork artillery, I'm working on a Grot bomb at the moment.
I aim for it to be an ability for the Warboss, where there's effectively an airstrike.
Last edited by Zany Reaper; 16th Sep 06 at 4:45 AM.
Allright i've managed to get it to download properly after about 100 attempts.
However when i go to extract the Zip file it gives me an "Unknown comment format" error, anyone help me with this issue? As without it i can't install it.
Zany Reaper:
It is totally possible to give units an evade chance, although it is a workaround. You give them a health_rangedamage_received_1_modifier, with mod_usage_multiply, a value of 0.0000 and a probability_of_applying equal to the evade chance ( equal to x such as 0<x<1). The only catch is that you have to set min_damage_value for all ranged weapons to 0, or else the damage will not be properly nullified. This should not cause any problems with balance or otherwise, but if anything comes up it can be dealed with via the armour_piercing value, or the individual armour type penetration values.
Re: the Grot Tank, the battlecannon works fine (and is quite effective with its fairly high RoF). The only problem is that its range is 53 while the coaxial shoota has a range of 95; when you order the tank to attack, it moves into shoota range but often will not fire the cannon, because it is to far away.
As a general opinion on the TTRU mod, i like the principle but the gameplay needs improvement. The maps are not adapted to the long ranges and fields of view; further, some races have more difficulty than others, and Orks are far from being the worst hit (although i can't really understand what 'Ard Boyz are for, since the speed/numbers of Slugga Boyz make them more effective): Big Gunz, various vehicles and Shootaz all give them good firepower. Eldars suffer a real nightmare against IG, for instance, because their units will never get in range before being gunned down (and replacing the Reapers with Dire Avengers who are barely better than Guardians was IMO a mistake). I also find some weapons way to effective against certain targets, e.g. an IG LP2 will destroy another LP in no time at all (LPs shouldn't be shooting each other at all!).
One suggestion i would offer you would be to give all infantry units a basic evade chance, as a balancing factor and to add diversity in infantry types, so that e.g. swift and agile Eldar Guardians, who cannot withstand much damage, would be harder to hit than Space Marine Terminators--although the later can withstand several times the ammount of damage that would kill a Guardian.
I'd also like to see weapons specialised further; if shooting a Baneblade or HQ with a lasgun dealt no damage at all, i wouldn't complain. And heavy bolters shouldn't be chewing up LPs.
Finally, it seems that Necrons will break the victory conditions on a skirmish game--this may be because there is no winconditions folder with the requisite files (apologies if this is just a problem with my download or something). i tried to create the winc conditions required, but no joy--i guess my SCAR isn't good enough. Oh, and is it me or is there no Necron AI (but there are some Tau AI files!).
P.S. I would suggest that you release the mod with a scaling tool (like the scaling feature of RGDedit), so that the user can easily configure the game with different damage/range/vision range values. I can't give you advice on how to do that, but i bet that Cucc, the maker of RGDedit, would be willing to help with something like that. And if my post sounds negative, don't worry-i like the mod
It's a rar file.However when i go to extract the Zip file it gives me an "Unknown comment format" error, anyone help me with this issue? As without it i can't install it.
Cirdan - as far as what I knew, the probability thing only worked when applied via abilities, as they operate every second.
The cover might just simply apply it as half of the units being affected, rather than all units have a 50% chance every second of being OK.
Dark Reapers are really powerful in the mod, but shall I take away the soul shrine requirement then, or shall I replace it with the need to have 2 or 3 webway gates before being able to be built?
Basically - I don't want Eldar to be able to simply get 2 squads of DRs, station them somewhere & shoot any incoming marines. It basically makes the Eldar much harder to defeat.
They can even rip off assault squads before taking heavy damage from them.
Should I also increase the damage dealt by them too?
As for the grot tanks, I'll change the shoota range to what it should've been - 60.
As for IG vs Eldar, I've weakened lasguns a little. Dire Avengers are still very useful against guardsmen IMO, though as usual - listening posts will destroy them.
the IG listening post's weapon I forgot to lower the damage on. That's been fixed for the next version Cirdan.
What do i do with a RAR file then (i know how to change it (just select it and add .rar rather than .zip after it (Windows insisted on adding the .zip designation BTW)) BTW, but not what to do with it).
Actually i can't change the file format, wen i downloaded it windows insisted it must be made an easy ZIP file and would not give me any other options.:angry:
#96
Download a program called WinRAR (http://www.download.com/WinRAR/3000-...l?tag=lst-0-1), and use it to open the RAR files and .zip files. It's shareware, and has like a 30-day trial period or something like that.
Ok
What do i do after that runs out then?
http://www.paehl.de/english.php
Use Simplyzip, freeware.
#99
So long as you don't mind a mildly annoying box that pops up reminding you to register each time you launch, then you don't really have to worry about it. It doesn't shut off or stop working after it reaches its time limit. If you want to stay within the trial period, though, then you could uninstall it after it expires and then install it again... but most people I know either register or just learn to live with the box.
Guys... You know - I think that Chaos could do with another vehicle.
However, I don't know what... We've already got the basic 5 for them. All other things, like the Vindicator & Basilisk, are chapter specific (Iron warriors).
I'm thinking of another Land Raider. Can Chaos have prometheus Land Raiders, seeing as they're pre-heresy?
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