[ Tabletop Round-Up SS + Skirmish AI 3.0: 1.4 released, Page #55 ]

[GMB]

I am hoping that the unit sizes will be scaled up in the next version....

[corncobman]

Scaling the infantry sizes down was a design choice so I don't think Zany Reaper's going to change it.

[WarpObscura]

WarpObscura - Well, there is a list of units added to the mod on the TTRU invisionfree forums, in which there should be a link to in my signature. I'm not entirely sure what you're actually looking for though.

I meant, include a list in the readme of how to get the new units. Just for the newbies' sake, of course.

[Firewarrior1705]

I personally like the way units are scaled in TTRU, it gives a wider tactical perspective

[raphealray36]

I like the scaling down of the unit sizes too. As well I like the quick damage kills and the fast unit upgrades.

I hope Zany doesn't change a thing as I would like to see these features in Soulstorm as well.

Keep up the good work Zany

[GMB]

i like them being scaled down, but not to the extent that they are

[Zany Reaper]

Firewarrior1705 - Well, I've got the DowXP files dealt with, so I'll probably start on recovering the lua files soon.

GMB - I've you're referring to what the sizes were in 1.35, then yes, the sizes are gonna be nearer to those in DowXP (except that tanks will be bigger). I got bored of having certain infantry being almost invisible, so I scaled everything up to the point where infantry were 80% of original DOW size, & most vehicles to 120% (some 135%).

Sizes will still be smaller than standard DOW though (for infantry) due to pathfinding.


WarpObscura - So you want a list, of what building produces a certain unit, and what requirements it has?

[whitewolfmxc]

Hey , zanny mate XD how are you ? too bad to hear your pc had problems , but i hope the new SS version will come soon

PS: I just made up my mind on buying my first War hammer 40k army , now im want to play Space marines on Space wolfs chapter XD any recommendations for what i should get first ?

[WarpObscura]

WarpObscura - So you want a list, of what building produces a certain unit, and what requirements it has?

Um, yes please? I know it might sound a tad unreasonable to ask so much, though...

[Zany Reaper]

whitewolfmxc - Hi dude. I recommend that you get Space wolves as they're less boring than space marines. Their venerable dreadnoughts are also more powerful, & they get more interesting melee units too. I'm less sure about their heavy weapon options however. I get the feeling that they also may be lacking in plasma weaponry too, but I'm not certain on that.


WarpObscura - Well, I'm a bit busy recovering my TTRU files to do that, but you're welcome to compile a list. I can give you advice & information about unit requirements if necessary.
Do you have an rgd editor? That'll be useful in working out the requirements.
____________________________________

I've recovered the abilities lua files. However, I still need the following done:

Entity files (ebps);
Squad files (sbps);
Formations
Researches;
Weapons;

I'm planning on working on the ebps & sbps myself, but the latter 3 I'm less willing to do (less major a task anyhow). I wish to get help on these.

So, any takers in recovering these files? I can send the file with the original content that contains the stats for these things. It's mainly a copy & paste exercise, with a few new files to be made here & there. I will deal with missing UCS entries.

[GMB]

Another thing Zany - will the camera be the same as in normal SS? I don't really like how some of the top mods go and change the standard camera angle and zoom, it's annoying having to get used to it if you know what i mean.

[Zany Reaper]

The camera will pretty much be the same as in SS, yes. I think that the normal camera settings do the mod justice. Only real difference is that the angles are a bit less limited, & you can zoom in furthur. That's about it though.

[Firewarrior1705]

have you decided on what AA units will every race have?

[GMB]

ok good to hear about the camera

[Zany Reaper]

Firewarrior1705 - Well, try this for current:

Space marines - Tactical/Devastator missile launchers
Chaos - Same
Eldar - heavy weapon platforms (& nightwing, if you manage to get it).
Orks - Not sure... Tankbustaz & other rokkit launcha upgrades don't fare badly though.
Imperial Guard - Hydra AA tank, for definate.
Tau - Wierdly enough, it's not the Skyray, but the pathfinder rail rifles. I'm gonna have to make seeker missiles as an actual weapon sooner or later.
Necrons - Warriors & Pylon. Warriors fulfil the role of AA units because the Pylon is a super unit, and as of such is not as easily obtained as aircraft will be (even though aircraft in general will require a certain amount of strategic points to produce).
Dark Eldar - Scourges (& the Raven, if requirements are fulfulled).
Sisters of Battle - Immolator with multimelta upgrade (& Lightning fighter, when requirements are fulfulled).


Now, for a future list of things to add, this' what I aim to get in the future:

Space marines - Whirlwind hyperion (special anti-aircraft krak missiles).
Chaos - Unsure on this. If Chaos can get whirlwinds, then yes... Otherwise, A renegade hydra will have to do.
Eldar - Firestorm (lol) scatter laser tank.
Orks - Don't know about this one. I'd need ideas.
Imperial guard - the hydra, obviously.
Tau - Skyray seeker missiles.
Necrons - Pylon would still be anti-aircraft, but I am unsure what else to use for earlier tiers. Obelisk gun?
Dark Eldar - Don't know. Probably will have to make one up in due course.
Sisters - Again, I don't know. It's a similar situation to Chaos.

[whitewolfmxc]

The Obelisk towers on strategic points / and torrents version built (after second upgrade) around should go AA for necrons XD

PS: Zanny XD what do i do with the file you sent me ?

[Zany Reaper]

The problem with the listening post though, is that it's immobile - this aircraft can merely just weave their way around it to attack the main army (Pylonless). Just wondering what else could be used... Heavy destroyers might work out, though they're used a lot anyways.

As for that file, it contains a bunch of lua entries. Try re-creating say, the Sisters of Battle researches for me. The lua files should contain the metadata & names in the files, as well as the attributes itself.

[wxyz]

For Orks the Flakwagon or the Flakkatrakk (Games Workshop will release it soon) is the best.

[Zany Reaper]

Thanks for that mate, that gives me a good reason to keep the gunwagon in the mod

[Perturabo]

For necrons, Even thou it deviates from the codex, could get a Weapon upgrade, like Gravity Destabilizer, or something like that, for the Immortals.(or heavy destroyer)

For Darkeldar, maybe make a Sharp Verson of the Eldar platform, but change it enough so it looks really different.

Chaos, could get some kinda small flying demon that is a suicide unit, think skullprobe small.

Rightnow this all i can think of. take these with a bit of Salt please.
(chaos idea might be bad)

[corncobman]

Some suggestions:

Orks - Looted Leman Russ with Zappa upgrade
Necrons - Immortals
Dark Eldar - what about the Talos Stinger? Seems to not be terribly useful in Soulstorm currently so this might make it have a purpose.
Sisters - Exorcist?

[IronWarrior42]

Personally i just focused on what weapons would/should have aa capacity so basically las cannons, missiles, auto cannons, dark lances, personally i give lp's aa capacity but anyways my point is rather than making aa capacity unit specific i personally make it weapon specific.

[GMB]

corncobman - this is the TTRU mod. Anti air weapons actually have to be anti air on the table top

the talos sting is S4, the Immortals carry S5 gauss blasters, as i said before, the exorcists is a viable choice if Zany makes it function like it should do. D6 S8 AP1 missiles will rip through all armour.

[corncobman]

Yeah, I sorta forgot about the Tabletop rules.

[Zany Reaper]

Perturabo - I think that Dark Eldar would have to gain a chance that goes against tabletop rules. I'd prefer to give an infantry unit anti-aircraft capabilities, but it might be more realistic to give something to those reaver jetbikes.

Don't know what weapon reavers should get though. In Tabletop they typically get blasters & shredders... Could give them a modified dark lance variant, one which can only shoot at aircraft.
Either that, or make the Shadowlance tank (if that still exists).

Whilst giving Immortals anti-aircraft powers would be realistic, it'd make warriors less useful as a result, which I'd rather stray away from.

Still lost for chaos...

corncobman - Talos stinger is a strength 4 weapon in tabletop, so even if it hit them, it'd deal very little damage, with all of its shots. The Talos can also jump in the release (to give it an advantage over the Eldar wraithlord), and will spend most of its time harvesting or fighting in close combat - rendering its ranged weapons ineffective.

As for The witchhunter exorcist tank, it's still an artillery tank at the moment, though I've tried to use my mathematical skills to make the weapon have an equivelant effectiveness to what it is in tabletop, whilst not biasing it too much against infantry. It still has an area of effect, and lands straight down, but the missiles are fired every 2 seconds (I think), literally making it a barrage. Not particularly accurate, but very powerful when it hits.

If it were made to be a normal projectile weapon (like most other missile launchers), then it'd look silly ingame as the missiles would just be fired horizontally out. Making it fire like an artillery would look better, but may appear strange when considering aircraft. I also am unsure if artillery weapons can home-in on targets.

If worst comes to worst, then I'd give them Whirlwinds with hyperion stats.

(P.S. - TTRU is for tabletop, DowXP is better suited to having wierd things )


IronWarrior42 - I aim for (most) listening post weapons to be able to aim at aircraft anyhow.
In tabletop, there are infact dedicated anti-aircraft units which carry standard tabletop weaponry. The only difference is that the weapons have AA-mounts, but the anti-aircraft ability is essentially unit-specific, usually for vehicles.

[Firewarrior1705]

what cap will the aircraft use? will they use heavy support or will they have a limit like the apcs?

[Zany Reaper]

They'll use the heavy support cap. However, most aircraft are hard-capped at 2 anyways, with the Marauder being hard-capped at one, seeing that it's a super-heavy vehicle.

Oh, & almost all the attribute files have been recovered. I just need to re-make the UCS entries. Thanks to Corncobman for most of the attribute aid.

[Firewarrior1705]

why not add a game rule that will double caps on all types of units? It will make things a lot more interesting if you ask me(epic battles always rock)

[GMB]

or the Apocolypse win condition that means there are no caps

[whitewolfmxc]

yeah Apocalypse game rules XD and maybe another game rule : "Epic" where all caps are x 3 ?

[Firewarrior1705]

I hope you'll get rid of that crappy landspeeder tempest and add a thunderhawk for the marines You should cap it 1 because it's a flying baneblade!!!

[whitewolfmxc]

hows the AI factor going for the new version ?

[thudmeizer]

Well I haven't received anything from Zany yet for quite some time but Zany has his work cut out for him so hopefully he'll keep at it now that DoW2 looks like its regrettably "locked down" CoH style .

[Zany Reaper]

TTRU's been recovered, pretty much thanks to Corncobman with most of the attribute files. I've recovered (what I think is all of the lost) the FX, events & taskbar settings, though the taskbar thing probably still has that pissing bug that hides the menu completely when the taskbar hide button is clicked

But I've got basically all the files dealt with (including UCS entries). I just need to test it to see what's missing...


Firewarrior1705 - In theory, that shouldn't be too difficult. In practice, with the current materials, it'd just look crud ingame, mainly because of the low-resolution texture of the (scenery) thunderhawk. If a higher resolution texture was made, then I'd be much inclined to make a thunderhawk available for Space marines.

Oh, & the tempest is a skimmer now, not an aircraft. I'm using the TTRU tempest model because of the weapon group support.

There's a way of increasing maximum caps in DOW via SCAR, yes. I doubt you can increase cumulative squad caps for certain shared units however, though when I convert squad cap to elite cap, that'll be much less of an issue.

[Orao]

Hello

I fired up your mod but I can't see any new units you presented here. I use the .bat files included with installation since the EXE files crash on my computer. Am I doing something wrong ????

[Zany Reaper]

Hi.

You managed to get the DC 1.2 patch yet? This mod's only available for Dark Crusade (but not for long).

Failing that, post up the contents of yer warnings.log in code tags.

_________________________________

---Finished Carapace armour---



Despite Thudmeizer's kind attempts at finding a texture artist to finish off the texture for this guy properly, they all eventually either declined, or simply went AWOL. As of such, I've had to finish off the shoulder pads & armour plates myself. Not great end product I know, but no-one else cared.

More doctrine glory to come

[Orao]

Ok I installed SS directly after DC without patching DC. Will try to patch it up first. THX.

[thudmeizer]

Yeaa sorry Zany on the outside talent - its VERY rare nowadays to get external talent outside the community who don't stay in contact with the team they are assigned to. Gawd so bloody frustrating and pisses me so right off because they come over to me asking to help then just vanish. F**K. Why the frig did they even offer to help so close to when they vanished? This happens much more often in the last 3 years.

[Zany Reaper]

Dawn of war is an old game Thud, so I guess artists are now moving on, wanting to play around more with bump & spec maps, rather than having to waste the effort on a standard texture instead, which probably won't even look that good ingame.

Infact, I reckon that even Moru's artistic skills just wouldn't pay off in DOW, because the lighting effects would just dull it down. His stuff will look far better in DOW2 though, if it becomes mod-able besides current doubts.

But yeah, you're right. Help does appear to be harder to get, and I still need someone to do the whm for these doctrines as well (I'm not that good with whm files as I usually get colour bugs in them).

Oh, & now I'm working on making the deceiver killable. Fancy that?

[horusheretic]

dow 2 is using the essence 2 engine which would have alot of the essence 1 code, just updated alot. that means the chances of the game being moddable is quite high because alot of the same code is likely going to be used ingame. all that would probably be needed after is an update of the tools which would be done aswell if relic are using the same ones for DoW1.

[Zany Reaper]

Horusheretic - Well I do hope that proper tools are actually released, rather than having to rely on editing rgd files, as the modders of CoH did.

I still fail to understand how they managed to add new models to the game without any modtools though, unless someone hacked the DOW ones?

The Deceiver is killable now. Not a great animation that I've made, but it will suffice until I get some explosion FX that suits a proper death animation.

So, that leaves the taskbar bug, the doctrine icons and the anti-dance feature to fix up, then I can put up a pilot version of the mod.

[spartan_x]

just came back from a 5 month trip and actually expected the ss version to be out by now..

I'm realy sad about the data loss...

I think I still have the target priority luas I did for you this spring

If I find them I will uppload them as soon as I get the chance

[Zany Reaper]

Lol. I'm not sure if I need them lua files anymore.

Anyhow, I've got the mod pretty much working again. All I need to do is to fix some other UCS bugs, (fix the taskbar problem if it's even possible) and re-apply that lovely anti-dance ability that worked so well before.

[whitewolfmxc]

Small preview on whats new to the upcoming version ? XD im sure everyone wants a piece of that

[Firewarrior1705]

a pre-release beta would be nice so we would be able to find any bugs it might have and report them to you

[Zany Reaper]

Oh yeah, I need to put in that anti-dance thing... Whoopsie!

I'll just do that... Oh, & the doctrines are done too.

[Firewarrior1705]

so, any chance of a release this week?

[aimanzainz]

can i get some help? i cant seem to get the mod working... I start up the game and get a pink screen instead of the DoWC screen. I can't seem to play a game tho? I click on the taskbar at the bottom and it crashes.

[Zany Reaper]

Aimanzainz - Hi. What version of DC are you running? If it's version 1.2, then gimme yer warnings.log contents in code tags. Otherwise, get the patch.

Anyhow, the reason I have neglected this thread for a while is because I'm now at university, and as of such have found my time is running short as I have to learn to organize myself properly (like for food, lectures haven't started yet).

Still, the mod is pretty much ready. It just needs to be packed & have the readme file adjusted.

Problem though - my internet connection there dies every 20 minutes, making uploading the mod nigh impossible. I'll need to try to find the problem behind this before I can get anywhere.

[whitewolfmxc]

Zanny : maybe i can help with the uploading ? what site do you use ? anyway we can chat over MSN XD