I asked a question

[Mandos of Torc]

and here is the chain of response:

Dear Mandos of Torc,

a moderator/admin has warned you for one of your posts:


If you wish to stay as a member of this community, do not post in this fashion again.


-------------------------
Forum Guidelines

If you disagree with this warning, you can send a private message to the moderator in question, to his supermod or to an administrator, or you can create a thread in Forum Issues.

__________________

What?

Don't post with any sense of humor, or tongue in cheek?

I'm a member of this community because I spent the money I earned on buying the game that provides YOU with something to do.

I utterly reject your assertion that what I posted was SPAM.

It is in no way (by your own rules) SPAM as it is not mindless chatter, nor is it nontopical.

It is repetitive, BUT in the body of ONE, SHORT, post!

And it is done in a humorous context.

It asks a serious question, and as a moderator, YOU are bound to allow it to be answered by someone with knowledge of the subject matter.

It is NOT within the perview of your position, or authority, to offhandedly dismiss it as SPAM, which you ovbiously do not know the meaning of, so HERE is your own guideline-

2. No spam.
That means no threads inciting flames or mindless chatter. Profanity is to be kept to a minimum. Swearing is tolerated in context. Excessive swearing will get you banned on the spot. Personal attacks are strictly prohibited.


Additionally, this is a GAME FORUM, not the UN.

Game=Fun.

Attitudes like yours take the fun out of participating in games.

If you persist in annoying me, and do not unlock the thread, so someone with knowledge can answer the question, I will report you to your Administrator, and to Company Executives.

Thank you for your, albeit misguided, attempt to maintain order and functionality.

Have a nice day.

Sincerely,
Mandos of Torc

(The above response was also forwarded to Administrator, who has yet to respond)

Quote:
Make yourself known to the community by:

• Making more thoughtful, meaningful or humorous contributions to discussions

Bold, underline and italic are mine, for your edification.


D00d, not everyone enjoys the same style of writing.
I personally can not stand 'netspeak' or '133tspeak' stuff.
I posted the Map thread to find out if there were any more maps in the offing.
I'm sorry if you did not find it humous, but I cannot find ANYTHING it viloates in the forum guidelines.
It did not suit your personal likes, but what the heck, do you please everyone all the time?
Your SuperMod status is something you should take very seriously, and not go tromping across the board like 'Godzilla on the Rag'.
Threatening me with my membership in the community was truly bad form.
If you had checked across the board, or your mod forum and threads, you would have found that yours was the very first warn of any kind I have recieved, (and I do not think it warranted).
Is it Board Policy to ban on the first transgression of a minor nature?
I posted the thread once, in one forum, and did not repost it across forums, bump, say 'Hi, look at me!', This is my First Post.' 'I'm having a baby', or 'Look at my porn website!'
There is no swearing, and, I said 'Please', twice.

Think, before you use the club, and try to find your smile.

I helped moderate a very large web forum for five years, and I made my share of mistakes too.
I sincerly did not mean to step on anyone's toes, but I don't think I deserve your ire.

Thanks,
Mandos of Torc

The thread will not be unlocked. In addition buying the game, does not give you the right to post on this forum. Due to these factors please post in forum issues, since that is the best way to contact the administrators of this board, since not a single moderator can lock a thread in that forum.

As for contacting company executives, you are welcome to do that too. However i want to let you know ahead of time that they have no control on what takes place at this forum.

If purchasing the product for which this forum is generated to support, does not give one the right to post here, I'd like to know what, in your mind, does.

The Company pays the bills this site generates.
If you think company executives have no control over what happens here, I suggest you review corporate structure and responsibility.

I'd like you to show me, in writing, exactly how I violated the TOS, other than your personal opinion, of course.

Your intransigence in this matter does you, the Forum, THQ and Relic, no favor.

Thanks,
Mandos of Torc

This is a privately owned and operated forum. The staff are all volunteers, and 'the company' does not pay a single dime towards this forum or the staff that run it. I will not give you anything in writing.

To continue this matter any further you will need to post in forum issues or contact an administrator on this forum. Any more private messages from you to me directly will not be given a response.

So, Relic does not own this Forum, somone else does?
And Relic allows use of it's intellectual property here?
But they have no financial stake in it's content, or daily doings?

Strange how business is run these days.

More to the point.

I'd like an Administrator's opinion of my post/thread which is linked in Soulblighter's first quote here, additionally with the context of this set of correspondence, a (private) opinion of Soulblighter's actions this day.

I do not think I should be subject to the ire of someone so ill qualified, or just having a bad day.

The post/thread in question does not violate any written guideline that I am aware of and I parused the link Soulblighter provided to Forum Guidelines, pretty throuoghly, other than Mods can call black 'white'.

I admit I stated my postion 'rather strongly', but if one is going to disagree with the 'powers that be' should one do so with weak conviction, or obsequios demeanor?

I do NOT believe I violated anything other than Souldblighter's lack of humor.

[ionfish]

You could simply have posted in the suggestion box and politely suggested that Relic add some new multiplayer maps to CoH.

Since you "helped moderate a very large web forum for five years" I assume that you're aware that post like yours, with their confrontational stance, tend to be a rallying point for any number of people who take them as a green light to spew invective and generally rabble-rouse. In other words, they don't help.

If you want more maps, or think that Relic should make more maps, then there are better ways to get this point across that do not involve causing trouble.

To conclude: the lock remains, and was completely justified.

[Fiirks]

This forum is run by a group of people who volunteer thier time to keep it clean. While it is the official forum of Relic Entertainment, and the domain is owned by a relic employee, and many relic employees frequent the forums, they have no say as to what happens here.

[Mandos of Torc]

...with their confrontational stance...
...get this point across that do not involve causing trouble...

I'm sorry.
What do you find confrontational with the Map post?
This has me confused.
What trouble did I cause by trying to be funny?
Did I insult someone's religion or politics?
I feel ionfish is in a 'Circle the Wagons' mode.

edit:

How can I not take personally the threat of being banned?

[Tiresias]

If you persist in annoying me, and do not unlock the thread, so someone with knowledge can answer the question, I will report you to your Administrator, and to Company Executives

pretty confrontational. Relic do not pay the people running the forum and as I understand it they are happy with the way they are run.

[ionfish]

You don't think that a post with no content other than to state and re-state your map question in eight different forms is confrontational? I'll quote it in its entirity. Try just looking at it for a moment, and then try imagining how it might appear to someone who doesn't have your unique perspective on its apparently hilarious content.

Is someone working on more maps?
We need more maps.
Can we get some more maps?
I'd like a few more maps please.
Say, has anyone heard anything about more maps?
I'd hate to think that they quit making more maps.
Are we going to have to buy an expansion pack to get more maps?
I don't know if I've already mentioned this, but, we could use a few more maps.
Please.
:cranky:

[Worf]

We have an FAQ here that is an interesting read too, done by an administrator.

Your post was not only poorly worded, it was designed as a rant. You're obviously upset that there aren't more maps in the game. Had you worded it differently, or posted in the suggestion box, no moderator would have had to take steps. But you chose to write the same thing 5+ times in the same post without anything substantial enough for a discussion. You're not stating what kind of maps, more 2v2 maps for example, you're not making suggestions, nothing but a "Where are more maps" statement.

That would have survived in the suggestion box, but it is not suited at all for discussion. Threads without discussion value get locked because they are spam. And they produce flames and more rants. And according to our guidelines, we don't tolerate this kind of posting style.

[Captain Pierce]

IMO, there's nothing confrontational about the map post, it's just annoying.

The confrontational stance is in your PM's:

It asks a serious question, and as a moderator, YOU are bound to allow it to be answered by someone with knowledge of the subject matter.

It is NOT within the perview of your position, or authority, to offhandedly dismiss it as SPAM, which you ovbiously do not know the meaning of, so HERE is your own guideline-

That's pretty damn confrontational, not to mention completely wrong. It is precisely a moderator's job to offhandedly dismiss it as spam, which it obviously is. Asking the same question 17 times in one post not only doesn't make it any more likely for someone to answer it, it in fact makes it about 17 times less likely. So you're annoying people for no reason at all, which is a pretty good definition of "spam" for me.

[Mandos of Torc]

I didn't say I was hilarous, only humorous, and my perspective is unique.
And no, I do not think it confrontational.
I would suggest, that there is a dycotmy between the written and the 'grumpy smiley', but I chose it because I am an old man, not to emphasize a bloated rant.
Do you truly see no humor, only confrontation, in the post?
I would suggest that this is the unique opinion, of 2 out of 10,000.
Either way, I do not agree with Soulblighter's opinion, and I urge you to take steps against those who threaten your users so heavily over such trifles.

The confrontation IS in the PM!
I was threatened with banishment!
My Map question was ignored, and my thread locked!
I responded in kind, to a strong threat.
But, the PM was private, ergo, I do not think the reasoning for locking the public thread can be justified by later, private correspondence.

The Map thread post does repeat itself, but, jeez, how long did it take anyone of you to read the whole thing? 15? 20? 25 seconds?
The question is, 'Is it the SPAM Soulblighter claims?'
Or, is it a goofy framing of a legitimate question?

Edit:
No it is NOT a Moderators job to offhandedly dismiss anything.
A Moderator should weigh any action carefully, before handing out threats!

[Tiresias]

the question belongs in the suggestion box, or if you thought there was discussion value how about outlining it in your post? That thread was going nowhere and it should have been locked. Read the guidelines more carefully next time. The moderating style here IS tough but that's to minimise useless threads and ensure a community free of spam and flamers.

[Mandos of Torc]

You are irritated at the way I framed the post.
Fine, I can deal with that.
I can make adjustments in the way I post.
But, "Making more thoughtful, meaningful or humorous contributions to discussions" should be edited if you are going to 'so narrowly' define homor.
That the post/thread was going nowhere, is moot.
I had NO CHANCE to reply to anyone responding to the thread, since it was less than 5 MINUTES OLD before el Grumpo de la Soulblighter locked it.
Therefore, how can you say 'Going nowhere'?

[Dooks Dizzo]

Mando's you're going to get along a lot better in life when you realize that no one owes you anything. That's not a flame, that's advice.

If you persist in annoying me, and do not unlock the thread, so someone with knowledge can answer the question, I will report you to your Administrator, and to Company Executives

Making threats (empty threats at that) is not going to get you anywhere.

[Tiresias]

It was going nowhere because the mods have seen similar threads a bajillion times before and they know when a thread is going somewhere. THe CoH channel is not a humour channel and if you want to make your post funny fine, just also make it constructive. It belonged in teh suggestions box as it was.

[Mandos of Torc]

I responded to Soulblighter's PM to me, in the same fashion he confronted me.
I never said anyone owes me anything, but I have a right to expect people to back up the words they write or say, just as you do.
Soulblighter refused to do that, in writing.
Is this the way Relic expects those here to do business?
I did not attack anyone, which would have required the type of action Soulblighter took.
I did not insult anyone.
I did not mock, deride, needle or incite.
I asked a question, in a goofy, humorous manner.
I asked a legitimate question.
And I was threatened in response.


edit:

...and they know when a thread is going somewhere...

hmmm, this is good to know.
We are in the presence of omnipitance.
Did they know that this threat would result in this thread?
Did they know that the goofy framed question was written by one who speaks this strongly in his own defense?
Is it petulence?
Or, conviction?



edit:

That would have survived in the suggestion box, but it is not suited at all for discussion. Threads without discussion value get locked because they are spam. And they produce flames and more rants. And according to our guidelines, we don't tolerate this kind of posting style.

Not suited for discussion?
Yet, you bring to mind several points that would have allowed room for discussion in the thread.
Number of players, type of maps, (I prefer chokepoints myself, being new to the game), location suggestions etc.
All these could a might have been discussed had Souldblighter not chosen the grumpy route.

[Tiresias]

You asked a question in the wrong place in the wrong way and invited a useless thread.

no just intuition.

[Mandos of Torc]

Useless to whom?
Are you saying that the folks who bought this game have no interest in whether or not we will be seeing any more maps?
I find that hard to believe.
Are you saying that folks who bought this game would like no input into what types of maps we might see?
Hard to believe.
Are you saying, after reading THIS thread, that, as thread originator, I could not have created content worthy of this forum for the thread based upon any meager response, had I been given the opportunity?
I'm hurt, I feel snubbed.

[Tiresias]

No you have input, but we've said it many times before SUGGESTION BOX. If you wanted discussion yous hould have phrased your thread to ask for discussion. All it was was "I want more maps".

[Mandos of Torc]

I'm sorry, didn't I phrase is in the form of a question, or two?
I bet Alex Trebeck would disagree with you...

Soulblighter said nothing of the Suggestion Box.
He only said I'd be banned.
Your suggestion for the suggestion box is noted, but does it allow for any discussion of suggestions?
Where is the suggestion box?
It's not on the Forum Jump list.

[SquidDNA]

Mandos, while it's possible to see that you were joking, I suggest that the tremendous attitude you were putting forward as a joke wasn't funny. Maybe if it had been funny people would have seen it as a joke. Otherwise, I think people are justified in interpreting it as immature whining, which we really don't need any of. This is why you were warned via PM. I've said it before on this very forum-- if you come amongst strangers and make a joke that they do not find funny, any confusion that arises is your own fault.

As has been said, your request belongs in the suggestion box. I warmly reccomend you put it there, accept that you made an error, and continue to read the forums a little while before trying to make a joke again.

Also, what kind of discussion are you hoping to have about "Are we going to have any more maps?"
"I think we should have more maps!"
"I don't!"
"I do!"
etc.

[Moe]

We are in the presence of omnipitance.

I think you mean omniscience as in "all-knowing". Omnipotence (not ~pitance) refers to being all-powerful.
Now can we maybe drop the smug attitude and discuss this constructively please?

[Mandos of Torc]

Moe, you are correct, about the spelling
My spelling blows chunks.
But would not the power to lock and ban, and knowing what's going to come to pass, infer an omnipotence of messageboard power?

SquidDNA, could we not discuss needs and wants regarding the size, or type of maps, skirmish or multiplayer, player number, or terrain types favored?
How about discussing a North Africa Campaign set of maps?
Regarding the humor(lessness) of the Map post, could a request for clarification have been unrealistic.
Do you really think it deserved the threat of banishment it got?
Would you have made the same threat, without first looking for other posts by the same person, to see if a pattern of misuse existed?

[Starblade]

The question is, 'Is it the SPAM Soulblighter claims?'

Yeah, it is.
Yes.
Uh huh.
Sure is.
Yep.

Note how only one phrasing of that response would have been enough.

Is this the way Relic expects those here to do business?

Judging by how long these forums have been around (and by the posts by some of Relic's staff), I'd say they're fine with how things are done here. So are most of the rest of the forums.

As for the threat, it got locked. The threat of being banned came after the PM.

[Moe]

Ok, how about this then.
Why didn't you post all that stuff you mentioned about the sizes and types and the Africa campaign? Don't you think that would have gotten a much better response?

[ceejayoz]

No one here has claimed omniscience or omnipotence.

What is claimed that our moderation experience here - seven years of it, in some cases - has made it entirely possible to quickly and reliably determine when a thread will almost certainly go to shit.

Look, the entitlement attitude you've put on in this thread really doesn't help your case. It hurts it, especially when you're clearly under false impressions like that Relic controls these forums.

You asked for administrator opinions. You got it.

To conclude: the lock remains, and was completely justified.

Anything else we can assist you with?

[Mandos of Torc]

Then I have incorrectly distributed the postings.
The thread was locked and the PM threatening banning, were to my knowledge, coinciding actions.

[Starblade]

Isn't that first PM an automated/generic response?

[Mandos of Torc]

Yes, ceejayoz, there is.
Can you tell me, are there anymore maps coming?
Any yes Moe, it might have had a better response, had I the chance to respond to someone asking questions like the ones I got here.
The thread was not givien the opportunity to develop into anything but a rant on modding.
But, if you like the North Africa Campaign idea, can you really say the thread was of no value?

ceejayoz, Moe, Admins and Moderators et al, I apologize for the less than omnicient judgement of my onmipitance remark.

Isn't that first PM an automated/generic response?

If it is, then I have made more than one error today...

[Worf]

Starblade:
No, that's handwritten by the moderator that warns you. There's just a boilerplate for the signature warning.

[ceejayoz]

But, if you like the North Africa Campaign idea, can you really say the thread was of no value?

Absolutely, as the thread hinted at nothing of the sort. It was a self-admitted rant.

We don't leave "ZOMG THIS GAME SUCKS FUCK RELIC" posts either, even if the thread might wind up having constructive criticism later in the thread. We just wait for someone being less trollish to start with a constructive post.

You've received your administrator opinions, and it looks like we're not going anywhere here. Locked.