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Thread about big guns !

  1. #1
    NightmareAspect
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    Hail the Mighty Battleship, you know you want it

    Battleships kick ass with a vengence. The people at relic are gradualy warming up to the idea of a ship that alon could take out an entire fleet or frigets and destroyers. They started rather timidly with the Heavy Cruiser in the first HW. Then they elevated themselvs to the brink with the new Battle Cruiser. Its only one more minor an needed step to the final class! Come on, do it.

    The it might be said that a battleship would be SLOW and EXPENSIVE to build. Even in some of the most liberal games it would be a chore to build. But OHHHHHH the firepower that it would have and weild. It would be almost double the size of the current Hiigaran BC.

  2. #2
    Forum punned-it Retroboy's Avatar
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    There are threads and threads that talk about uberweapons, and a BattleShip that dwarfs a BattleCruiser would probably be classed as one of 'em.

    The general concensus is that they are a wonderful addition to the singleplayer campaign or in skirmish or MP maps when the AI controls them, but the players themselves should not have access to 'em.

    ...but OTOH, I can definitely see some of the modders licking their chops...

    -- Retro

  3. #3
    NightmareAspect
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    I could definately wait for a mod to come out for that.

    I definately like the idea of a AI only Battleship. But they have to be able to be captured. Or even beter, have a Hyperspace gate that can bring larger ships into tha battlespace. It would be a neutral structure and all one had to do to get the ship options would be to get a command ship near the structure. The 'traid people' would then send a request for that ship. And a little wile later one pops out.

  4. #4
    ahuman
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    The battle cruiser

    Anyone think the hull of the battle cruiser is too long. I meant, really, there are only weapons on both ends of the cruiser, shouldn't they add something in the middle of it, too? For example a few missile pods will be great!

  5. #5
    optica0
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    for realism, yes, I think missiles would be great. For balance, they would make it invincible.

    I agree about the length somewhat. Then again, there's something very majestic about it. I just worry that, as long as it is, it won't be able to bring all of its heavy guns to bear on the same target.

  6. #6
    GIMPbeowulf
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    I think it has production and strike craft storage capabilities so why not a large hull?

    You could also look at that area as internal ion beams that are direction out through the turrets.

    When it all comes down to it, though, aesthetics.

  7. #7
    Danger Fire Kills Children Splitstar's Avatar
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    it has a majestic look to it itrs not the sane without it:rage:
    and who do u think u are commenting unsolisitly on the hc :argh:
    some ppl just dont think:dolt:
    lol (jk)
    Proud member of Clan Soban Force

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  8. #8
    Cooker
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    the battle cruiser would run out of ammos if they had anymore weapons. JK. LOL

  9. #9
    SoSD
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    Yeah, I think the ion turrets at the back ought to be raised for the emplacement of another pair of dorsal/ventral turrets in the middle of the ship.

  10. #10
    NightmareAspect
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    It would be rather cool if you had to assemble the battleship out side the MS. Each of the 4 parts would be completly selfseficient. But rather week. The ship would act much like the reaserch station from the original HW. The four parts would be and include.

    Part ONE:
    Forward Section (including Bow of the ship and the command and control center)
    2x Big Guns (facing perminantly forward)
    4x Connetic Burst Cannons
    4X Heavy Guns (or the like)

    Part TWO:
    Port Section
    2x Twin ion cannon
    4x Connetic burst cannons

    Part THREE:
    Starboard Section
    Ditto of the second section

    Part FOUR:
    Aft Section (The main Drive, although all other sections will have drives on them, this one has by far the bigest one.)
    2x Twin Ion Cannons
    6x connetic burst cannons

  11. #11
    werst spella evar Bonnet's Avatar
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    Yes an it would be it could only be built at the end of the resarch tree + very weak against strikecraft as its not able to fit the fighter defenses with all of the other bunk, make it 2 HEAVY ion canons instead. (cant hyper lack of room)

  12. #12
    Lathian
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    what is the point of having a huge slow moving ship that cannot hyperspace. the situation would end up like this: everybody races to build one or two of these ship and start moving them towards the enemy with some assult corvets. both fleets would reach the motherships at about the same time and it would become a fight of who can bring more guns to bear on the enwmy mothership at one time.:fight: thsi would take the fun out of playing the game because there would be no use for all the other ship because if you did built them then you would eventually lose the race to build the "big ship" and the other guy would destroy you with his/her "big ship" and you would not be able to counter the "big ship" .:claw:

  13. #13
    werst spella evar Bonnet's Avatar
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    But because they canot hyper as soon as the ships moves out with tis escort where all of the guys RU have been sunk you hyper in a fleet of BC when he is half way to you and he is left defensless.

  14. #14
    malignus
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    not to mention, all you'd have to do is wait until he's nearly at your mothership, then hyper your MS out of the way. then attack him--he's shit out of luck. *shrug*

  15. #15
    NightmareAspect
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    No No NO. The Battleship will and must be able to hyperspace BUT. As i metioned before the ship will be built in sections. Each section will bring new basic sub-systems to the table. The sections do not have to be built in any order. The Forward section would house the command and control sections. this would allow you to have the Battleship as the last command unit after all others are destroyed. it can not build anything, it just acts as the last haven for your fleet command. The two side sections would provide the aditional power boost to fire the main uber guns. These sections would improve the accuracy and power and ROF of all the weapons. The final section would provide the final and largest boost to power manuverabilty and overall speed, it would also include the Hyperspace drive. Mind you that befor this time the near complete Battleship ( assuming you constructed the thing in order) could not Hyperspace. The ships sub systems may include things like a short period gravity well generator. And the series of anti-fighter systems (those non-turret mounted lasers seen on the BC) would provide a moderate defence. The Battleship is the ULTIMATE in sigle ship action, it would easly dispatch any other ship in the fleet, including the MS. However the one weekness it would have is the effect of swarming. If you had a good sized capital ship fleet (1-3 BC, 3-4 DD, 10-20 Ion Cannon or Assault FF) then you could easily divide the Battleships fire up to the point that it is a managable portion for your fleet to handle. What i am trying to say is that a Battleship is good whet it can direct the majority of its fire at a small groupe of targets, go beyond that limit and the battleship is doomed.

    The ship would also be prohibitavley expensive. Making a stratigic conundrum. Do you waste all the time and efort in tying up your MS or shipyards to construt a ship, but for the same RU you could build a fleet with significantly more tactical advantages than the Battleship.

    However, the Battleship is not to be so easily dismised. If your fleet is not prepared for its arivel then you WILL face ultimate destruction!

  16. #16
    NightmareAspect
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    I will try and get some pics on of what i think the BB should look loike. I will thry and make a mod for it. If you have any sugestions, pleas PM me.

  17. #17
    Avatar of Set
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    It would be inpossible to win if you did that.

    Everyone would just leave there Battleship hanging around there Momship and any vessle that tried to attack would be doomed.

    If someone tryed to attack with there Battleship it would take forever to get thare, you would have all the time in the world to destroy it.

    Not to mention that attacking with the BS would leave your Momship open. They would just show up with a few ships and kill it. The resorces that one of these laviathins would consume would prevent you from building a descent defence fleet.

  18. #18
    NightmareAspect
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    No, if you had read to my previos argument. The battleship would be very powerful, yes, but it can only efectively deal with only so many targets at a singlr time. Do to the ships shier size, it can not bring all of its weapons to bare on a single target. And besides that, if you sent three BC to fight the thing, you may lose the three BC but the BB is prety much out of the picture for a wile.

    You might say then, what is the point of a BB if it is so much more expensive to build than a BC. Well that is true, you could probably build about three BC in the time it takes to build one and a half BB. The adavatage is that it can easily destroy all three of thoes BC you built and then return to the MS and be repaired. You on the other hand then start back up with a disadvantage to your fleet. You now have been forced tospend more time and recorces to counter the treat of the BB. Simply, you spend most of your time building things to deal exclusively with that BB. You then become week to small ships that are strong vs. those types of ships.

    And BB would be able to Hyper Space around. Though it may be very expensive to do, it would be the ideal way of softening up a defenders fleet for the assault.

    Truth is, we do not know the full extent that a BB could be used until HW2 comes out and either I or someone els comes out with a mod with a BB in it.

    Good points though, you hade to make me think their. Good work.

  19. #19
    Arwan
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    the ship is uber powerfull and all but i would also agree that only 10 weapons (2 ion cannons 4 medium and 4 small) is a bit few for such a large hull even if it can store other ships.

    i mean to me it looks larger than a carrier so unless it can cary as much as one with just a few less slots for sub systems then it should have more. at least small weapons.

    just look at any large Navy ship. like a battleship for instance. you can barly go a few feet without hitting another gun on the dag gone thing.

  20. #20
    HIGHWINDER
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    The 1 thing i never really liked about Hw was the fact that super capt+capital ships never had enough Guns, Artilliary for the size of the ship. A destroyer has 2 ion beams and 4 guns, i rather make it have 4 ion beams and 8 small guns wich would easily fit the shape/ texture/ design of the ship, But whats done is done, lets just hope most/all the proportion configurations are correct in HW2.

  21. #21
    Forum punned-it Retroboy's Avatar
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    Balance reasons, people. Studding it with a plethora of different weapons would make the thing unassailable.

    There's a shot of one of these firing three simultaneous beam weapons into a carrier. I suspect when it comes to capship clashes that this will be able to hold its own.

    -- Retro

  22. #22
    GIMPbeowulf
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    I believe that's actually 4, retro... top turret has 2.

    I imagine it's also done for performance and networking reasons as well. The way HW works they need to keep track of every projectile and the more you have the more difficult and straining that becomes. Some simplification is always required to bring things out of the realm of realism and into real life.

    You could also look at it as a heavy cruiser having less large guns instead of tons of small ones.

  23. #23
    BETA Noir's Avatar
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    Less large guns are more efficient than a lot of small ones anyway.

  24. #24
    Arwan
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    normally i would agree with you on the less bigger is better.

    but the ship is SO HUGE that just adding like 2 more small guns to the front would be great. 1 center front area and 1 center bottom

  25. #25
    Avatar of Set
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    I would suppose that turits would effect armor (because you would have to cut a hole in the ships hull to put them in) in which case ship desiners wouldn't want to put extra wepons in unless they are going to have a big effect.

    In other words: It better be damn inpresive if I'm going to weeken my ship for it.

    Simple cost vs. benifits thing.

  26. #26
    HIGHWINDER
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    Believe it or not for all the common sense noobies out there, 8 small guns does more damage then 4 big ones in a extended period of time 8)

  27. #27
    GIMPbeowulf
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    Well, you can't really put specific numbers on it like that since it is a game and defined by what someone thinks up, not any underlying principals of physics or anything.

    Realism isn't usually the most fun.

  28. #28
    Lurch
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    It's not the size of the gun that matters, it's how you use it.

  29. #29
    Research Engineer ohaunlaim's Avatar
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    Which is more affective against a tank? Fifteen 8mm kevlar jacketed bullets or one 120mm armor piercing round?

    On the other hand which is more affective against a squad of infantry surrounding you? Fifteen 8mm kevlar jacketed bullets or one 120mm high explosive round?

    Different weapons are needed for different situations. The battle cruiser is designed as a cap buster- thus it has a few big, big, big guns, and some filler weapons. Other ships are just as likely to be outfited with weapons conducive to performing their role in the fleet.

    If you were to balance out the weapons loadout of the battle cruiser then it would stop being affective in its intended role. And end up being average in every role. If this was the case it would become merely a force enhancer to the role of the strike group it was assigned to (anti-cap, anti-strike, whatever). Without adding affective power to any of the other roles.

    By remaining single purpose, it becomes a force unto itself and other ships can then be asigned to enhance it or to protect it from its weaknesses.

  30. #30
    Temet Noste
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    The idea of a Battleship isn't a bad one, or an overpowered, unbalanced one. It can be made quite fun and useful with some tweaking.

    NightmareAspect's idea of a neutral (Bentusi controlled?) hyperspace gate is a good start.
    This thing would just be too big to build, and doing it in chunks takes up too much code.
    Another thing is, it WILL be big and it WILL be slow, but that's ok, because it'll be tough and powerful.
    There's nothing wrong with giving it the ability to hyperspace, because normal tactics against a ship that jumps in will still apply.
    As long as it doesn't have any weapons quick enough to take down strike craft on evasive, or even neutral tactics, it will have the same weakness of any cap ship, it'll just take longer to kill.
    If you have support craft working on your MS then this shouldn't be an issue.
    If the controller of the Battleship decides to attack the support craft instead, it still buys your MS some time to live, and thus your strike craft time to chew up that sizable investment of time and resources.

    Ultimately, the thing is totally unnecessary, but it'd still be fun.

  31. #31
    Lurch
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    "Ultimately, the thing is totally unnecessary, but it'd still be fun."

    I agree completely. I also feel it's quite balanced. While your slowly building the parts for your battleship, the unfinished, highly expensive pieces are sitting around waiting for the enemy to attack them. I figure in order to complete the Battleship, you need a defencive fleet which is capable of keeping out all attackers, plus the thousands needed for the BS to be completed.

    And if you have enough ships to hold off any attack, and enough money to build a BS, you are probabally winning anyway.

    "the thing is totally unnecessary, but it'd still be fun." And fun is what it's all about.

  32. #32
    Dasvidoniya
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    One way to balance it out would be to take advantage of fighters accuracy...

    if there is a part on the ship that fighters can nail for about a minute (result=kill), but frigates could maybe hit after 15 shots, more stategy, plus fun, would form.
    This may look like Elefant vs mouse, but its still balance.

  33. #33
    Crouching Fitz Fitz's Avatar
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    Thread about big guns !

    For all your questions thoughts and mad rantings about the pros and cons of big huge enormous guns, weapons, ships and other stuff.
    -Fitz


  34. #34
    werst spella evar Bonnet's Avatar
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    If you think about it with the RU's required fot this ship i could go but a bunch of destroyers and take out the Batlleship as it could not turn fast enogh from youre indications to take out tghe destroyers and it would only have one destroyed when it finally did. This is how it always worked out in Cata.

  35. #35
    NightmareAspect
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    Well, was giving the idea of a BB in HW2 a hole lot of thought. I came up with an idea that just might make the BB entirley plosible for any battle. The BB itself has enough firepower to destroy just about everything that it could come across. However its main weekness is that it can NOT bring all of its weapons to bear on a single target. Though it is slow and somewhat ungainly when maneuvering the ship has virtualy no blind spots. Though it must be said that different firing arcs have different weapons firing into them.

    The main weekness of the BB would be against a large groupe of fighters or corvettes. The BB's weapons arays would simply be overloaded.

    Another disadvantage that the BB would suffer would be durring its construction. Having the ship being built outside the MS or Shipyard would allow the opponent to destroy some of the sections before it was completed. When in the build menue, you would simply order the construction of a BB and each section would come out in a set order. If that section that is out is destroyed, the build manager simply increases the time nessissary to build a replacement section at the aditional cost of a new section.

    The BB Stats as i see it (this is based off of HW stats)
    Group: Hiigara
    Class: Hiigaran Royal Navy Gabriel Class Battleship
    Mass: 1,650,000 tons
    Max Velocity: 110 m/s
    Armour: 110000
    Maneuverability: Very Very Slow
    Firepower: - (unknown due to lack of data on HW2)
    Coverage: 95%
    Special Function: SECC weapons system
    (Hold [z] and left-click on target)
    Weapon Systems:
    13x Point-Defence System (ones seen on the Battle Cruiser)
    8x Twin-Linked Ioncannon Turret
    4x Puls Cannon Turret
    4x Heavy Kenetic Burst Cannon Turret
    2x Five Pack Missle System
    2x Spacial Energy Compression Cannon (SECC)

    SECC are very large and supercharged Ion Cannons and are mounted directly to the ships hull. So the entire ship has to tun in order to engage the weapons.

    The cost of the ship is estimated to be about 2.5 times the amount of a BC and about the same multiplyer for the construction time.

  36. #36
    Buzz_Litebeer
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    The biggest thing about battleships, is that they are so powerfull in HW Cataclysm its horrifying! A dreadnought is a battleship, though it says cruiser class, it really is what i would define a battleship as.

    Those things are crazy, 2 or 3 can take on entire fleets of frigs and lesser ships.

    I dont know, i think the lesser ships should be made more powerfull, relatively.

  37. #37
    werst spella evar Bonnet's Avatar
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    YEs but fir the orice you can build a ton of destroyers, and there are many who disagree with you, they canot bring all thier weapons to bear on a single target and so forth not very usefull against other cap ships.

  38. #38
    Fishfighter
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    I say make a battle ship a uber bung hole kicking ship. BUT, like the bc, make it a nice target for fighters and bombers and corvets. (i still rather 2 fully loaded carriers over a bs any day, but the bs would make the pain even more wonderfull :-) )

  39. #39
    NightmareAspect
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    Well, i was thinking that the BB would be week verses frigets and not fighters. Because frigets would do sufficient damage to the ship in a short enought period of time that the BB could not destroy all of the friget soon enough.

  40. #40
    Cooker
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    an idea about a super weapon in single player:

    having a superweapon not built, but summoned ( like the horned rapier in dungeon keeper ) the superweapon could belong to a much more powerful race then player race ( kushan - bentusi battlestation , Vagyr - Taimat devastator ) the supersweapon could come in, wrack hovac, and exit after a few minutes, leaving everything on the sense dead or dying

    the only thing the prevent you from abusing the superweapon is the amount of "call cards" you get, you only have so many call cards and one is consumed everytime you call in the "big brother" so you might want to save them for a mission you are really stuck on. also , you might be able to gain more "call cards" during side quests, or if you are Kushan, buy them from ben tusi.

    this might only be use in single player because everybody would race to build the "alien communication array" and loser could be torned to shreds by the supersweapon.

  41. #41
    OldSoul
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    Put a limit on the SECC, since its going to be so powerful.

    Since the strike craft can dock with the Battleship, the same orifice where strike craft enter will be used to accept crystals.

    Crystals, like I mentioned in another post, should be non-harvestable, since the general consensus is that they ruined gameplay.

    However, the concentrated energy of the "Special Energy Compression Cannon" would require massive amounts of special matter. You could get that from the crystals. They would increase the SEU (Special Energy Units) of the Battleship, and that amount would appear next to the ship's health bar, the way the Missile Destroyer's missile count appears next to it's health bar. Each SECC burst would detract from the amount of SEU the ship has at it's disposal, making the player use'em sparingly, since the each crystal will provide enough SEU for about 5 shots.

  42. #42
    Temet Noste
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    Why is everyone making all this so complicated?

    One of the great things about HW was it's lack of unnecessary complications. It was gorgeous in it's simplicity, and because of it's simplicity, seemed very realistic and allowed for uncountable possibilities.

    If people want a ship that's on a higher level than a BC, then do just that. Knock it up a notch. Don't add twice as many weapons, uber-weapons, or goofy ion cannons. Also, it's a cap ship, by definition it MUST be crappy against strike craft. Only one cap ship in HW was good against strike craft and that was the MD.

    I don't count HW:C because Relic didn't make it. It was a good game, but doesn't really factor into HW2.

    It's just that simple. Keep complicating things like this and you're just going to ruin a great idea. There's nothing wrong with a battleship, but there's nothing wrong with the way they're making HW2 as it is either. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

  43. #43
    The Noid
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    This darn forum string is way to long to read completely, so I haven't. If for some reason what I mentioned has already been address (or stated either partially or fully) I am sorry for the re-statement.

    This is for all the people that want the "UBERSHIP"/"UBERWEAPONS" of the game. And those that don't want one.
    What NightmareAspect said was rather inventive and a fair solution to it. A neutral Hyperspace Gate you have to get to and take make a "request" through it to purchase such a ship. I say that’s fair to the effect that, the enemy might already be there and you have to fight to get control of it. Plus they might already have an "Ubership" in their fleet or guarding it. That would definitely be a hassle and fighting through all that mess would be very costly. So the reward should be justly equal.

    Also I’d like to embellish on a minor comment of his about the ship being a slow and expensive build. I’d like to say that if this ship was available to build in the game yes it would be very necessary for it to be such. So as to help even out the playing field. Perhaps you can build nothing other at the same time while you build that "Ubership". By the time the thing builds you just might need it. All your ships could be gone and the Mothership badly wounded by the time it builds and you have the availability to build other ships.

    But this is the real idea that I had on this. Something to weigh some thought on (of which I just noticed was slightly mentioned by cooker).
    First I will give a mention of what I think makes a Supership an "Ubership" It is its weapons. And to a smaller degree it's damage resistance (armor). Armor can be defeated. But until now
    Weapon subsystem targeting was unheard-of in the HW games. So you couldn't remove the weapons unless you defeated the armor. Which would destroy the ship. The feeling of the big ships of old was that it indeed was big and had many nasty weapons. And had sufficient armor that you had to commit a large number of ships to defeat it. And well if you seen one lumbering your way you have to hope you do have enough. Or restart the scenario knowing that one will be coming sooner or later and you have to harvest, harvest, harvest, and build, build, build

    So the subsystem targeting takes any big ship down a notch in the "don't let that thing get close to me scale" So to put it back into balance a bit, maybe the subsystem targeting tech comes a few scenario's later in the game after the first appearance in the "Ubership"? Or, the invention a few scenarios (or not if the subsystem targeting is supposed to be available early in the game) later in the game of "Hardened weapons points" That yes/no costs more to build/add with the ship. Or per weapons mount. But if they would be/are in included with the building of his ship then only for the "Uberweapons" of the ship that make it so fearsome. So that indeed you can target the weapons only of the ship, but it will resist some damage and last just that bit longer. And you'll have to commit just as many or more ship of old to destroy or neutralize it. This again puts the fear and hesitation of the big nasty ship in play.

    Ok my final comments. Thank you for taking the time to read this far, just a lil more now. To bring some more possible limitations to the ship and it's "Uberweapons". I would simply like to state that it could run out of ammo. And that yes it can be re-loaded. Which can still be a resource eater of a ship. If ammo replenishment is considered in the can and also believed to be a consumable resource. And that it takes a long time to reload also. What if you’re in the middle of a big battle and the ammo runs out for those "Uberguns" on that ship? You’d be left with a ship (with its remaining weapons still functioning) very similar to a destroyer or battleship, just with a bit more armor on it. Of which case you then got to think about defending it like you would any normal cap ship from fighters. And that makes it very viable for destruction. And trying to back away this ship from battle to reload it, or hope for the best and send the resupply ship in to it amongst the battle?

    (Again the loss of ammo bit was stated first by cooker but lacked further comment at the time)

    Ok, what possible "uberweapons" could it have?
    1. Big heavy duty slug throwers. (For cap ship defense)
    2. Smaller rapid fire guns. (For anti-fighter/bomber defense)

    This is in addition to any other guns on the ship (such as a normal cap ship would have)

    The big question after all of this is:
    Is the ship really worth having?

    If the ship is available to you buy getting it or building it, you still have to maintain it with ammo and repair costs and those would be continuos. Plus the initial cost and time of building it.

    Maybe you can turn on/off the "Uberweapons" so as to save ammo?

    All of this of course could be used or some of it used, or added to. Or simply ignore by the Relic team. If these thoughts or ideas are intriguing enough for them, then yippy. I’d hope to see some of it in the game. If not, then it's just the inventive ramblings of yet another creative mind. I’d like the comments of anyone on this board with this idea? What say all ye faithful?

    Oh missles, I just love missles. Lets just throw them into the game someware shall we?

    Ok that’s it; wow it took way longer to say all this than I figured. Thank you for all those that stuck with it and actually read this thing. I feel as though I should say something really important at this time but I am at a loss to words (he he). So have fun.

    P.S. If it seems to me that this thought gets lost on this thread I might re-subbmit it on a new thread.

    P.S.S Wow, I couldn't read the whole thread at that time. But it sure seems like I type just as much. I really thank those that have read this. I an now going to read thew whole thread. But I will not come back further to change what I have typed.

  44. #44
    The Noid
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    Originally posted by NightmareAspect
    It would be rather cool if you had to assemble the battleship out side the MS. Each of the 4 parts would be completly selfseficient. But rather week. The ship would act much like the reaserch station from the original HW. The four parts would be and include.

    Part ONE:
    Forward Section (including Bow of the ship and the command and control center)
    2x Big Guns (facing perminantly forward)
    4x Connetic Burst Cannons
    4X Heavy Guns (or the like)

    Part TWO:
    Port Section
    2x Twin ion cannon
    4x Connetic burst cannons

    Part THREE:
    Starboard Section
    Ditto of the second section

    Part FOUR:
    Aft Section (The main Drive, although all other sections will have drives on them, this one has by far the bigest one.)
    2x Twin Ion Cannons
    6x connetic burst cannons
    Way to go there. I am fasinated by "linking" tech. I enjoy it's possibilities very much. And I can't believe I forgot to mention it in my comment on the UBERSHIP scenario. The "What if" of HW2 "Ubership". Damn . . . But then again it was in HWC, not to important for HW2

  45. #45
    NightmareAspect
    Guest
    WWWHHHHHOOOOO!!!!!
    Slow down their 'The Noid', a little to much info do digest at once there. : )

    Their is a slight problem with the thoughts you gave. Though ammo would make the game more ballenced, it would also make the game unnessesarily complecs.

    In my original revised proposal for a BB (I think it is on pg3 or so) I gave the ship some cannons that could destroy a destroyer in one hit (provided both cannons hit the target).

    I am all for a Battleship but not an "ubership" it would simply be too big and impractical to feild in the game. The Battleship is powerful, yes, but it does suffer from an inability to target all weapon systems onto one target. thus the average attack power of any on firing arch from ship to target is about that of a destroyer. That is the AVERAGE. The front arch could esily dispatch a BC or two.

    The key to the destruction of a BB is to hit it from the bottom or top, were it attack power is the weakest. Another way would be to hit it in the costruction fase, when it is the most vulnerable.

    This thread has blossomed to a bit more than i had atisipated. This definatley proves that their is an intrest in the BB. Time to make a HW2 mod for this. And who came up with the super weapons idea. I think i might have to use that too. If one does not mind.

    I am still trying to put the pictur that i have drawn up of the BB and what it sould look like. Could someone pleasae help me. I cant get the picture up and i am all confused by the rout that it asks for.

    Oh and by the who...
    The SECC is saposed to be called the Spatil Energy Compression Cannon. A little goof on the spelling, my bad, as usual.

  46. #46
    The Noid
    Guest
    I consider any ship/weapons platform that has guns capible of takeing out a ship of the same size or smaller with lil to no damage to itself to be a "Ubership". That includes in my mind a BB.

    And half of the interest in what I wrote was to possibly attract the attention of Relic for a game idea. And the other half to all who's ideas I have mentioned or added to. Plus anyone who's got the time to read all that I wrote.

    And thanks for reading and commenting on it NightmareAspect.

    The intention of "weapons arcs" is not mentioned in that for I consider it a given thing. And wanted to keep myself from a continiously growing page of writing to post.

    And ammo would just be a name/term for understanding of the limits of those guns of that ship. It wouldn't be naught but a small line of code to enter for it I belive (Relic). Or since a ship of such classes should be more or less self suficiant, make it have the ability to regenerate it's own munitions. But at a cost of 100 RU's per shot. And this represented by one gereral colored bar to show how full it is.

    There are many different ways to show how much munitions it has currently. It doesn't have to be complex. I just didn't want to be continously typeing that thing out and never be able to post it.... heh. Ok thats it for now unless I get more responses.

  47. #47
    Pherdnut
    Guest

    Baaaaalance

    Egads! You all sound the like the gun bunny from Patlabor. I think there's definite room for a larger ship class than the cruisers and if I understand things correctly, there will be one in HW2. The only way such a monstrosity would be worth having would be if fighters could actually infiltrate it and blow it up from the inside.

    "We've analyzed their attack and there is some risk."

  48. #48
    BenJAMin
    Guest
    Hey! This would make a great MP scenario map:

    One player would start out with a standard (fixed or slow-moving) MS and begin building a fleet as usual. The other player gets a battleship on the other side of the map. In this case, the BS would be a very well-rounded ship – very tough, self repairing, several long range heavy guns and lots of point defense weapons and missiles.

    The game would be simple: The BS player tries to close on the standard MS and destroy it, the other player tries to kill him before he can. To give the BS player something to do along the way, he would have some limited resource gathering abilities. He would also be able to do research and construction of strike-craft (slowly) to help defend the BS or harass the other player.

    The scenario would be easy to balance. If the BS always wins, you give it less speed or move it further out to give the MS player more time. Alternately, you could make the BS faster/closer if the MS player is always winning. This could lead to Name That Tune wagers: “I can beat your battleship at.. um.. 50km!”.

    -Ben

  49. #49
    AfghanWarDonkey
    Guest
    So one player defends a mothership and another tries to kill it?
    sounds similar to a normal game, but with one player minus a mumship. if it was a case of a team of players with supercapital ships and limited production against a solitarydefender, that could be interesting...not as a mp map but as a game mode, "Battlecruiser vs Banana"

  50. #50
    BenJAMin
    Guest
    It would be like the Head-Shot asteroid mission from HW – if the battleship makes it to the MS, you’re toast. The games would only last as long as it takes for the BS to reach the MS. I’m not sure how much fun it would really be. You’re right, it might be more fun as SP skirmish mode.

    Some days you’re a battleship, some days you’re just a banana.

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