The simple solution to all unit spam/rush strats

[The_sleeper1]

So surprising how little evidence has been shown...

Dam stright man I agree totaly, whats more though no one is admitting it I amd TOTALY sure that everyone from SMJ, daemonic fire to Energizer Bunny and the rest agree with you.

So in closeing if you want to be taken as anything but a joke you need to bring forth some evidence and not ask that we trust you rather new wet behind the ears claims are valid.

Claim all you want this is not the baggage department this is where you come with proof. If you want someone to waste thier time to shown you then take some time and show some yourself.

[blue_da_ba_dee6]

Least Sleeper gave a "mature" reply.



The proof is in the game itself, we all know of it! The original claim was that space marine rushes are overpowered, yet no one can disprove it. Simple! What I reckon this forum could do is have a section where people post replays of their "tried and tested" build orders and some specific tactics like Quick Prism Build, or Shoota rush build, or the slightly less tactical space marine build. Now that would work!

[The_sleeper1]

The proof is in the game itself, we all know of it! The original claim was that space marine rushes are overpowered, yet no one can disprove it.

That’s not proof that opinion. Try again but don’t put anything in that is what:

- you THINK
- others THINK
- broad collection of what you THINK people THINK

EDIT: not to mention that your saying EVERYONE agrees with you when clearly they dont.

[Compeador]

Er... as I understand it, mr Blue here is saying "build three SM squads and attack with them and you'll win."


To which I say "I really really hope I get you five or six times in a row in automatch."

[[AF]purple]

gee compy. at 9 points a pop ud be top of the ladder D

[ImmortalChaos]

This thread is all about 1 bad idea, and has gone way off topic... The only changes to turrets (other than anti-stealth which is already happening) is mabey a T3 upgrade for them that you get after missles, perhaps give the bolter back so they can shoot both av and ai...

But NOT 10x STRONGER!

[W0lf]

The proof is in the game itself, we all know of it! The original claim was that space marine rushes are overpowered, yet no one can disprove it.




sorry.. sm.. rush? 3 tacs squads with no fc is a crap mass not a rush...

and as i said.. if you want me to prove to you that 3 units of tacs will lose convincingly to most races then ill be more then happy to play you and disprove your crap theory.

[blue_da_ba_dee6]

So basically looking around most peoples responses to claims is "flaming" or "acting hard" -- still not evidence! :ele: :tophat:

[W0lf]

no. I offered to diclaim your point in a match. Just because your a pussy and refuse to play and be proved wrong dosnt mean your claim is right.

So far your only arguement is 'ill not allow any one to prove me wrong OR play to prove im right'

[The_sleeper1]

So basically looking around most peoples responses to claims is "flaming" or "acting hard" -- still not evidence!

You have not proved any claim yet so it would be silly to disprove something that you can not prove.

Or were you just expecting me to make wild unsupported claims and then not back them up like you did?

[11001001]

Turrets could do with an upgrade within their scope so as to make them Tier better. For example, I like the idea of opting to buy "Armour Peircing" rounds or "Ablative Armour" as upgrades in a more major building. Otherwise lets face it 1,000 turrets aren't going to stop a pig in a passage in Tier 3-4.

[Hive_Node]

Just spam your best unit, duh.

[Rickdias]

Most people hate others rush are sm or imp players.
I must admit that over 70% of people like using SM. Also most young SM player are not good at defence early rushs.

But consider this, what is the definition of rush? Does this mean the 1st side believe they are powerful enough and started a attack = rush?

Also consider if you are not using race like imp or sm. Like ork or eldar. If I don't kill ya quickly while I got the chance :fencing:instead I let you coming to knock my door with heavy bolters and rockets? In that case can I call you rush me? Or we both sim city until I got 7 FP and leave them there to get rust?

Like I post last time if you eate rush and got your self killed, try watch the game replay and see if there is anything improve so you won't lose as quick. I'm sure if you lose to rush you must of done mistake somewhere or your partner is not supportive.

Last comment if you dont' like to play with normal players then make your self only join those noob only games then.

[The_sleeper1]

If your opponent coems at you with rockets then he has droped down a armory = 175/50 researched T2 = 250/100 and then spent a massive amount on rockets. If he did all that and your doing nothing then no thats not a rush thats a tech & your just playing real slow or your teching too.

A rush is where you rush units out to attack where you attack sooner than expected with a larger force than you think your enemy can counter, a gimp rush with 2 units of 5 marines is a rush if done earily enough though millage may vary (not be very effective).

[your_neighbour]

Agreed. There's nothing wrong with rush.

It's just some jealous tekkies who is lack on defensive tactics that don't like it

[blue_da_ba_dee6]

Sm = Tact Mass Rush - effective vs all
CM = Raptor Rush - effective vs all bar SM
Ork = Shoota Rush = effective vs all bar Sm and CM
Eldar = cant rush
IG = cant rush

[Chris]

I guess I just imagined all those replays posted by Servant, CAPN and myself doing rush builds with IG. =/ Most effective build with IG = rush 100% fact.

Eldar most effective build = no gen ranger/reaper rush.

Ork shoota rush ineffective vs SM = lol.

[blue_da_ba_dee6]

Care to show the link to these "replays"? and Eldar rushes? HA!!

[Chris]

They're all in the battle archives finding them isn't rocket science.

Grim_Avocado uses a ranged/reaper no gen build and he's up into the 1600 area with eldar I assume other eldar players are using similar builds.

[blue_da_ba_dee6]

Typical "unfriendly" response! :evilnod:

Never care about the stats anyway, considering the problem of droppers and also the ability to stat pad with Comp Stomp games.

Lol just watched one Eldar/Ranger/Reaper rush game.......man what were the SM thinking!! "Yeah hes running around with Fleet of Foot, lets chase after him with 4 guys at the speed of slowness rather than boost our req"! Silly SM! Rangers had lots of health it seemed as well.

[W0lf]

when yu show me a replay of you beating grim avocado ill take you last post seriously.

[blue_da_ba_dee6]

Never said Grim wasn't good (thou not impressed even if he is its only a computer game!) only that the opponent wasn't, never jump to conclusions! :tophat:

[W0lf]

Sm = Tact Mass Rush - effective vs all
CM = Raptor Rush - effective vs all bar SM
Ork = Shoota Rush = effective vs all bar Sm and CM
Eldar = cant rush
IG = cant rush

IG rush is what all decent ig do.
Eldar can rush.. guardian rush anyone?
Orks shoota rush can be countered by all but is a decent strat.
Csm rap harras? lmao... it loses to ig, orks and other chaos who go csm first.. so no, just no.
sm... tac MASS isnt a rush ^^

[MoschBoy]

IG rush is what all decent ig do.

i consider myself a half-decent IG player after goingt to 1450 with a 15 games win streak - and i never rushed.

[Chris]

Winstreak is pretty much meaningless I'm affraid unless you want to get yourself a 40+ streak that puts you all the way into the top 50/10 just to show off. Otherwise, congratulations you played 15 games as IG vs low ranked players. Currently the players with the most in-game experience with IG have come to the conclusion that the best strategy as IG is to rush. It is not the ONLY strategy but it is certainly the one with the highest success rate.

I am skeptical that in your 15 game win streak you found something that more experienced players missed. Perhaps not impossible but highly improbable.

[MoschBoy]

well, i played 2 1600+ players and a few in the 1400-1500 area, so i guess they werent ALL that inexperienced.

i agree that a rush is maybe the strategy with the best succes rate, however, i have not encountered an enemy rush that could totally obliberate me earlygame. and tier 1.5 and especially tier 2 i find IG extremely strong.

tac mass can become a problem though, because at a certain number of tacs turrets+ squads simply cant match them anymore. agreesive harass and hero hunting is what made tac mass manageable for me.

also, its map dependant with how much succes i can defend vs some kinds of early attacks.

[W0lf]

Your a ork player no?

IG rush vs orks = LOL!

[Tentacles]

Well, stronger turrets could be a good thing. Total Annihilation had very strong defenses, and it worked out. What is essential, however, is that artillery for all sides or /SOMETHING/ must trump defenses eventually, or you'll just get a rushing game.

Incidentally, when Relic first designed the game, all buildings had guns(Orks are a descendant from this) and all buildings were very dangerous turrets. They diverged from this idea, however, for whatever reason.

[HexHammer]

Amazing how people are so onesided and can only see their side of the fence.
I have played alot of RTS, where there was alot of strategy and tactics being both very defensive and agressive, where one could make such choise, but not in DoW.

It seems very unfortunate DoW series can't appeal to both groups, that so many others RTS have masterd very well without the rushers complained, nor the campers.

Moe once told me DoW/WA collectivly sold 1.6 mill copies, which seems poor to me, when other main titles alone have sold 3 mill copies! It's not that Relic are a new and totally unknown developer, it's not that WH40k are a unkown brand, everything was in Relic's favor but they blew it, not only on the balancing, but putting it on GS ..and so on and so forth.
First Relic makes it too agressive only appealing to rushers, with WA they make a pseudo n00b friendly with soft counters, then with DC they totally blows everything with hardcaps. I can accept a hardcap on elite units, but we should be able to make 2 of the same. Vehicles should be unlimited again, but having stronger counters tier 2 AV for all, please!

[Tentacles]

Well, I would like to see stronger defense have a go. I don't see slowing down the game to be a bad thing, to be honest, thought it might be related to my newbness. I can assure you though that not only me, but at least 10 of my friends who I regularly play with, would also appreciate a more defensive game.

Comparisons with other games isn't incredibly valid. Blizzard has a very strong brand name, and Total Annihilation has been around for years and years longer.

[Cityfighter]

Well i haven't been following all 6 pages of this thread only the 6th and 1st page. But what about walls like cheap wall and make them strong to attacks from rushs like Possessed, Termies, Howling Banshees and other rushing units. But make them weak to whirlwinds, Bassies and other artilary. this would be a awesome defence since you could put mines infront and turrents behind since in DoW you can't really turtle base but i think you could with walls but it would make/force people to make sure they don't include all bloody rushes.

So a good Idea or not?? :yippee::clap:

Also Eldar would not have walls they'll have something else.

Orks = Scrap Piles will act as walls

Imperial Guard = Concreate Wall but can create wall with a small turrent on top

Space Marines = ???

Choas Marines = ???

Necrons = ???

Tau = ???

Good idea?

[xenohuntR]

heavy bolters spam kills all!!!!!

[whosyourdaddy]

Question is: How do you conter turrent rush then?