Burnas on Shoota Boyz ?

[Old Painless]

Is it just me, or would anybody else like to see burnas on shoota boyz as well as/instead of on slugga boyz ?

I try to find new and inventive ways of using them, but at the end of the day, im buying ranged weapons for a cc only squad.

They get outshot by pretty much everything so its a real waste to have them on ranged as they take large amounts of causlties until the enemy squads break.

Am i talking nonsense here or not ?

[your_neighbour]

Burnas are pretty handy against low morale units like guardsmen, then you can shootas/mek to do the maximum damage

Shootas and slugga don't really do anything at later games, they become too weak against tier3 heavy infantries

[a1ph4riu5]

Seems like a sensible suggestion to me.

However, I'd like to see them work more like the tabletop, because they're really interesting weapons there. Totally different from other flamethrowers. As I recall, they are power weapons in CC? And strong vs vehicles. If they worked more like this, you wouldn't have the problem of switching a melee unit to ranged, because Burnas would be primarily a melee weapon. They already have the melee animation ready, they just need their CC damage bumping up vs infantry and vehicles.

[Old Painless]

I would like to see that, if it could be done.

Ive even tried massing them against T3 termy armies and whilst somewhat effective, this shows desperation on my part !

The more shootas i build the better my chances, the more sluggas i build my chances get worse.

Case in point, a game last night versus Space Marine Joe, his comments as i died (horribly) "too many sluggas".

I doubt he would have said too many nobs, or shootas, or tacs or whatever.

Just as an after thought, if anybody has replays of burnas being used in new and useful ways please feel free to post them in the battle archives section.

[Chris]

I doubt he would have said too many nobs, or shootas, or tacs or whatever.

Yeah I think he would.

I think making the burnas actually do something in CC would be fine, but not powerful enough to be anti-vehicle/anti-building. They come out way, way too soon for that. I wouldn't have a problem with them being on shootas, although if that were the case I dunno if they should gain the extra CC damage... then you'd just be putting a CC weapon on a ranged unit.

To be fair I've never really wanted to do much morale damage while playing ork, you just end up with an enemy running away really fast, I've always favoured raw killing power.

[Old Painless]

I want sluggas to be able to do *something* as they dash towards the enemy apart from just taking fire and losing numbers.

Slugga mass taking on heavy bolters etc is just a waste of time, no matter how many sluggas you have, sm just get far too many heavy weapons for it to work unless sluggas suddenly get more HP, which doesnt happen.

The likelyhood of me breaking there morale on the way in (which they can get straight back again btw) is nill to zero.

I *suppose* i could set the sluggas to ranged but it just wouldn't work. Not a cats chance unless i spend uber monies keeping them alive, the number of individual squads you need is massive as i have tried it before.

As for the burnas on sluggas or shootas, they could be like scout/tac flamers, one does loads of morale damage, the other does loads of hp damage.

[The_Alec]

Burnas as currently implemented are an anti-dancing weapon.

They do roughly the same amount of damage to infantry as the Sluggas mele weapon but over a large area of effect and at 100% accuracy on the move. This is much better average damage then a slow firing slugga with an accuracy penalty.

Giving them to Shootas would be something of a downgrade since they do less damage at a smaller range then a regular shoota. If you compare the burnas moral damage to other dedicated moral breakers I don’t think you could call the burner an effective anti-moral weapon.

[Bogusboo]

I think you're better off simply letting your sluggas die then fixing then up with burnas. Putting your sluggas on ranged is an insult to the nob leader isn't it?

[SirNick]

I think making the burnas actually do something in CC would be fine, but not powerful enough to be anti-vehicle/anti-building. They come out way, way too soon for that. I wouldn't have a problem with them being on shootas, although if that were the case I dunno if they should gain the extra CC damage... then you'd just be putting a CC weapon on a ranged unit.

If we were to be refining through redefining the weapon, Burnas on Sluggas having enhanced CC damage can work through the magic of tech. To deal with the problem of AB and AV, have an upgrade at 45 or 50 pop for "More Burny" that changes the armor penetration of the melee Burnas to something neat.

This too would solve the problem of "CC on Ranged" or "Ranged on CC" paradox.

A thought.

[Chris]

Ahhhh more burny research, Oldskool. Sounds like a reasonable idea at least.

[[eX]Xerxes]

I tried to talk Stefan into giving sluggas not only more burny research back but also firebombs.

He said something along the lines of "Shutup stupid American," which is pretty much how all our conversations end.

Ah but a man can dream...

[Old Painless]

Firebombs ?!?

I'd settle for a burns that does a bit more than it currently does.

[psychodil]

Dont see why you would want to put put burnas on shootas rather than sluggas. Sluggas have much better HP for cost than shootas, and in the event of being tied up, sluggas will be doing more damage in melee (i think).

Then again, I wouldnt spend money on burnas for sluggas or shootas. Range 18, no thanks. And like chris said, you dont want your enemies running away faster. Much better to spend another 10/5 on a big shoota which helps kill dancers, and can be used defensively because of their range.

[Orgvar]

Old Painless, I will tell you what I often do playing orkz.

1. Bigmek+9 Sluggaz (10 is a nice equal number)
2. a one or two squads of Shootaz (reinforced to 6 memberz)
3. (When Pile of Gunz exists) two cheap Sluggaz + three cheap Burnaz each

Now, I get Bigmek/9Sluggaz on Assault/Hold Area stance and attach to them Sluggaz with Burnaz on Ranged/hold Area stance. This three squads are under one number. This is very fast, non-microing tactic in early game. Shootaz in the backyard. Units dont get trapped in pathing error because of different range of their weaponz.

Later you must build Nobz squad, attach Bigmek to them and build additional Sluggaz+Burnaz squad for faster morale kill.

Orkz orkz orkz...

[Lord_Ulrik]

In tt burnaz can use their flamer as an energy weapon instead of using it as an ranged attack. Burn or slap is the rule to say it easy.
Would be great if burnaz can be used in cc as an energy weapon without much damage vs buildings or vehicles, we wont have 1.41 p-swords back

[vjghost]

Problem with burnas is that they are fielded on othervise very bad usable unit (let all people dance ).
The main problem is that slugas don't use burnas when charging to CC which is the major part of their activity IMHO. So I think the simplest solution is to let them burn the oponent even during charges. If it turns out OP (or too complicated to implement) than at least lower charging distance for burnas (not for regular slugas) so they burns more often. This should be what makes CC unit even more CC

Edit: I think burnas on shootas could be placed but i think they would be waste of shootas unless range and damage of burnas will be increased (and than they could be OP on other side )

[The Mattster]

If you give shoota boyz burnas then they would be unstopable. You get a close combat and long range advantage over the enemy. I reckon you could kill a squad of marines easy!

[xenohuntR]

i still think that burna boyz should be in slugga boy squads because sluggas ar cannon foder if the enemy moral gos the rest of the ork hoard will sweep down and kill the survivors

[Titler]

Instead of putting the burnaz elsewhere, why not have the Slugga Nob be able to equip a Burner, perhaps given free with the reintroduced More Burna in their non Klaw hand? (You could also allow More Dakka to give the Shoota Nob a Big Shoota too) This would allow you to at least use the more resilent member of the squad purposefully after all their mates have been chopped. Tweak Nob Cost accordingly of course...

[Weavern]

Excessive bumps, and getting into suggestion box territory.