Patch Coming

[gremlin]

darn cannot quote ...
okay ...
@Sn1tch Mirror Matches (Axis vs Axis , Allies Vs Allies ) will not be allowed ... there are numerous threads about that in the forum just try the search function.

I will not lay this game aside . its just too good to be true...
Sure its sometimes buggy. the connection problems really do annoy .

But i have faith in the emper.... err relic to fix these issues in a few weeks...
It was the same with Dawn of War & DoW : WA and i think it will be the same with DoW : DC ( didn't get it yet , so no specifics yet )

I do play the game every day every evening , though not ranked , me and my friends have quite some time. Sure it is annoying with the connection issues , balance problems ( me btw thinks the game is ,except the calliope, very well balanced) little graphic bugs animation problems etc . But it is still worth to play...

edit: darn spelling errors

[th15]

Well delphy, if Relic's attitude toward post-release patches is really like that, I don't think I could ever pick up any more of their releases. They're beginning to set a very ugly track record with their post-release support. They always put out a blockbuster product, then they ditch it completely. This way they'll make the money on a regular basis, but they'll never create a legend like Starcraft.

[FatalTheRabbit]

Delphy, what do you expect people who aren't enjoying a game, which has the express purpose of generating fun, to do? Keep on tearing their hair out and play because there's the possibility that sometime in the future things might get ironed out? No way, I've said my bit on what I think is wrong, so until I see that the game has reached a point where those problems are solved I'll go do something else.

[juiceman1_2000]

"Never create a legend like Starcraft"

See thats the problem thinking like that. Blizzard never set out to create a legend. They just did what they chose to do. The community rewarded them with Starcraft's status of legend. We shouldn't stick up Relic and insist that they have the same culture as Blizz, that is up to them to pursue.

[Delphy]

Fatal: Okay then have a nice time.

th15: Every single game in the history of the universe has been released with bugs. Starcraft probably had bugs too when it was released. The fact that whatever company is willing to work with the community to fix those is, in my opinion, something to be held in high regard, not scoffed at.

You have to realise that the game has been out, what, a month? I mean, thats not that long in the grand scheme of things, but Relic already posted about a patch that they are working on (some companies do launch-day patches which I personally considering to be a worse scenario), so really it's a question of being patient, going off and doing whatever else you want to do and trying not to rant and rave about something you have very little control over

[th15]

It's a given that software will have bugs. The solution then isn't lengthy QA reviews, it is instead to expedite resolution of any problems that arise. Nothing's perfect, but you can damned well try your best at making it so, instead of sitting around debating changes in committee.

[Noir]

But people can get patch fatigue as well, have you ever played NWN?

[th15]

To have something fixed or at least see substantiated proof that they are attempting to fix it would be so much better.

In any case that isn't what Relic says is happening. Relic's statement right now is that the patch is in the QA process. A process that has been proven to be faulty in the first place (since they didn't find such obvious bugs) and is taking far longer than can be justified. Seriously, do you need twenty guys to repeatedly build tank traps for two weeks to figure out that it's fixed?

[Delphy]

It's a given that software will have bugs. The solution then isn't lengthy QA reviews, it is instead expediate resolution of any problems that arise. Nothing's perfect, but you can damned well try your best at making it so, instead of sitting around debating changes in committee.

Actually, it depends entirely on what the problems actually are. Why rush through a patch for a bug that affects only 1% of people? Or that is on a very very small minority of cases? It makes much more sense to instead do as most game developers and software companies do and roll everything into a patch that contains multiple fixes.

I highly doubt Relic sit on thier asses doing nothing - THQ has QA the patches need to go through as does any software company. Would you rather get a patch that breaks the game even more when you install it? Would you rather have something unusable? Thats what QA is for and it is, regardless of what you think, needed in cases of highly complicated software like games.

Let's not forget the 1.2 patch which was released a while back. Doesn't that count? I mean, during beta we had patches coming a lot, but now that it's in release phase you can't just dump patches out there and expect them to work - the industry simply doesn't work like that.

QA is part of the solution just as writing the patch is in the first place, and it's not Relic who are at any kind of fault for this process - it just has to be done.

[Noir]

To have something fixed or at least see substantiated proof that they are attempting to fix it would be so much better.

Except that a patch every 2 weeks for the next 6 months to year didn't fix all of them. I don't remember how long this marathon patching was, but I remember knowing that often the NWN patches broke things while fixing them at the same time, and with much more frequency than Relic's patching system(which is actually much improved from the pre-DoW era). But wait, what does a D20 RPG have in common with CoH? Because you're advocating the same patching system. I know people who got tired of that arrangement eventually, it's a damned if you do and damned if you don't kind of practice, that's what patching is for most developers. I'm just saying that there'll be some tradeoffs that you as the consumer have to conceed in order to get that kind of model.

[th15]

Umm the bugs i refer to as follows:

Unfinished OPs have their full health and amour. Other unfinsihed buildings have much less. They then can be canceled for a full refund.

Uncompleted tank traps have the same effect as completed tank traps (so you can tank trap whole sectors of map in no time at all). Barbwire has a similar effect.

Axis snipers reduce your munitions income. Allied snipers do not. It has been stated that this was unintentional.

They affect everybody, in any game setup. They are simple game data problems. They are potentially game-breaking. It's hard for me to wrap my head around how these issues could cause "compatibility issues".

[Starfisher]

Probably because they've been working on networking issues at the same time they've been fixing minor things like that. You can't just magically fork code whenever you feel like it.

[Fitz]

They're beginning to set a very ugly track record with their post-release support. They always put out a blockbuster product, then they ditch it completely.

What complete tripe.

[Delphy]

Not all of those are "simple game data problems" - Of those 3, only the one with the Axis sniper is really an "easy" fix since it's probably an RGD change.

The other 2 about incomplete buildings are more code changing fixes that require recompiling and so would be prone to any issues, since I daresay other changes would have been made in the meantime.

Edit: Okay after examination of the Axis Sniper RGD file, it has a zero for munitions cost thus this wouldn't be a simple RGD change since according to the game data it is acting as expected, thus it's a code bug.

In other words, there is a sequence of code that needs to run when engineers build buildings, and assigns a percentage of health to the percentage of complection. As far as I can tell while looking through the RGD files for the OP, there is no simple toggle that says "Don't build with full HPs", thus any changes to these would need code changes. (Feel free to prove me wrong if you can find out why it's applicable only to those buildings)

With regards to everybody in any game setup - I played through the entire Single Player campaign and have even played some MP games and I never noticed any of those bugs. They didn't affect my style of playing or my enjoyment of the game. How the bugs actually affect you is really your own personal feelings - some people honestly wont notice or wont care, and others will.

[th15]

I disagree there, I would not consider these issues to be minor at all. They are a serious problem and are a hindrance to the organisation of any sort of competitive play.

If they were hairy problems like networking or balance issues, then I agree that it could take time to fix. But these issues sure seem immensely simple to rectify in proportion to the effect they have on the game.

[Fitz]

th15 you are assuming two things.

a) that a significant number of the people who bought CoH want to play competitively online - This figure relates to the proportionality of effect that the issues have on the game

b) that these issues are simple to rectify.

Are you a secretly embittered Relic employee / experienced game coder and also involved gaming habit market research?

If the answer to either of those things is no, then you aren't really in a position to make such statements.

[Delphy]

Perhaps they seem simple but as with anything programming related, often what it seems like on the surface turns out to be something far more complicated.

I'd agree that for some people these so-called "game breaking" bugs would affect play, but for a vast amount of other people, they aren't. However, as I have pointed out, Relic does know about them and we'll see what happens when the patch comes out.

All anybody can do now is wait and have debates like this one.

[th15]

Fair enough, but it would be nice if Relic came out and told us what the hell the hold up was rather than just vaguely fobbing it off as part of the mysterious QA process.

I brought up competitive play because that is what defines the game's lifespan. Starcraft would not still be around if it wasn't such a popular game for global tournaments. Casual play is all fine and dandy for the developer's bottom line since all they need to do is to sell the product. They don't actually gain revenue from supporting a game. As such they don't have to solve every single issue in the game.

[Fitz]

I agree it'd be great if they did that. Mature individuals like ourselves would take that information away happy.

There is only one development company I've EVER come accross that give that level of information out, it's CCP who make Eve-Online (space MMORPG), and despite their awesome level of community information, people STILL moan. I'm afraid gaming companies can't win.

[Delphy]

I would invite those of you comparing Relic/Company of Heroes to Blizzard/Starcraft to read this thread: http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=52836

Start from around post 30ish.

[Moe]

In fact, I'm going to quote the relevant post right here.

1. Fixed cheat that allowed one player in a multiplayer game to see the map.
Fixed bug that allowed players to receive extra resources when canceling building construction multiple times by exploiting lag in a multi-player game.
Fixed pathing problem related crash bug that was most commonly exhibited in Terran 10.
Fixed C Runtime Library crash bug exhibited during saved games when year was greater than 2098.
Fixed sprite allocation errors that prevent normal combat and creation of units.
Fixed occasional hang when joining and leaving Battle.net.
Enemy Science Vessels no longer continually unmask after irradiating units.
Missile turrets controlled by the AI properly acquire targets.
Fixed blank game names in Battle.net game list.
Game names with high ASCII characters now show up properly.

2. Flying units no longer receive 'cover' from terrain features.
Fixed the bug when cancelling a guardian in high latency games that killed the Mutalisk and gave multiple refunds.
Fixed the bug that could sometimes cause a map editor, hit point modified siege tank's hit points to be incorrect after transforming.
Time elapsed while the game is paused no longer counts toward total elapsed game time.
Increased the cost of a Zerg Hatchery from 300 to 350 minerals.
Changed the damage type of the Photon Cannon weapon system from explosion to normal.
Preplaced heroes for the AI will now auto acquire targets and defend themselves.
Fixed a bug that could potentially, in high latency games, over-charge zerg players when morphing larva into units.
Modified the 'Free For All' game type so that the rules of diplomacy apply to computer players. (Computer players are no longer allied in FFA.) Also, made FFA available for single player custom games.
Fixed the crash that occurred when selecting a unit type, that would normally have shields, configured to have 0 shields via the map editor.
Fixed the bug that bumped people back to the race select screen after they had completed a single player campaign mission.
(Battle.net) Create game screen will now display ladder game speed as 'Fast' instead of 'Faster'.
(Battle.net) Profile draw code will now handle different sized destination windows.
Fixed 'attach to incomplete addon' crash bug.
Added three new Computer AI scripts for use with the map editor (Protoss Insane, Terran Insane, Zerg Insane) to be used in custom campaign levels.
Fixed bug that played the incorrect 'complete' sound for addons.
Fixed bug that prevented rescued tanks and goliaths from acquiring targets correctly.
Fixed bug that caused StarCraft to allocate unnecessary amounts of memory while running minimized.
Fixed bug that could cause maps with a large number of pre-placed units to crash at load time.
Fixed bug that, in rare cases, could cause game to crash when certain types of units died.
Fixed bug that caused access violation when maps with unplaceable units were loaded.
Fixed bug that caused access violation when any zerg air unit died while cloaked by an arbiter.
(StarEdit) Fixed bug that prevented changes to Norad II Hero unit weapon damage fields
(StarEdit) Mineral patches and geyser are now limited to 50,000.
(StarEdit) Added exception handler.
(StarEdit) Fixed bug that made it impossible to remove Map Revealers via a trigger.
(StarEdit) Fixed bug that could cause triggers to 'disappear' on systems using large fonts.
(StarEdit) Fixed bug that allows powerups to be placed in invalid locations on high terrain
(StarInst) Fixed minor over-calculation of disk space used by saved games for uninstall.
(StarInst) Moved file pre-cache requests to the install scripts.
(StarInst) Added support for multiple events per screen item without the use of sub-scripts.
(StarInst) Eliminated unnecessary screen refreshes.

3. Localized versions should all see Battle.net properly now (all buttons translated / all hot keys correct).
Additionally, chat help and account information should be appearing correctly when connecting to battle.net.
The length of time you have to leave a game before it counts on your record on battle.net has been reduced from 5 minutes to 2 minutes.
Very long games using the Terran Insane AI will no longer lock up.
Custom maps that use the "set next map" trigger will now work properly after loading them from a saved game.
New ladder maps have been added for Season O3. The old ladder maps have been moved to the OldLadder directory and downgraded to "Blizzard Approved" status. The (8)Green Valleys.scm map has been promoted to "Ladder" status. This means you can no longer play these downgraded maps as ladder maps.
There are 4 new ladder maps: (4)Ashrigo, (4)Remote Outpost, (2)Gauntlet, (4)Bone Canyon.
Fixed bug where if Zerg burrowers burrowed just as they decloaked (when leaving an Arbiter's field of influence) it would desync a network game.

4. Invincible Drone bug has been fixed
You can select all burrowed units of the same type or cloaked units of the same type by using the Ctrl+select method or by double clicking.
If you have multiple Carriers or Reavers selected you can build Interceptors and Scarabs for all of them at the same time.
Cooldown times of units being dropped out of transports corrected.
Stim Pack causing Firebats to fire slowly corrected.
Zergling adrenal gland upgrade affects corrected.

5. Reduced Academy cost to 150 minerals.
Reduced Science Facility cost to 100 minerals, 150 gas.
Reduced Spider Mine research cost to 100 minerals, 100 gas.
Reduced the cooldown for units on unload from a transport.
Added a limit so games can only be saved at most once every two minutes during a multiplayer game.
Fixed a bug that caused save game compatibility problems with 1.03 save games loaded into 1.04 and Brood War.
The 'something for nothing' cheat no longer gives Brood War upgrades in normal StarCraft games.
When using the 'exactly' modifier in trigger conditions, incomplete units are no longer included in the comparision.
Hallucinated devourers no longer leave acid spores on targeted units.
Spider mines are now properly affected by disruption web.
Neutral medics no longer auto-heal units.
Added a wire-frame for Infested Duran in a dropship.
The low memory version of the disruption web art is now correct.
Terran insane AI no longer locks the system.
Fixed the bug that allowed terran buildings to move after landing.
Fixed the bug that incorrectly allowed 'morph to lurker' commands to be issued to units that weren't hydralisks.
Miscellaneous minor bug fixes.

5. Adds Battle.net support for Warcraft II: Battle.net Edition.
Adds command completion to Battle.net chat. It can be accessed by pressing the "tab" key.
Fixes some minor battle.net issues.
Displays cancel dialog in situations when server is busy.

6. Adds support for Korean tournament (KBK).
Fixes lag meters on join game screen.
Changes default Battle.net font so that it is easier to distinguish certain characters while in chat.
Fixes German text for Brood War units which appeared as English on some systems after upgrading to v1.06.

7. Adds support for a new template "Top vs. Bottom". This template functions like Melee, with the exception that players in each half are automatically allied and share vision at game start, thus removing the "who am I allied with" question (and reducing the amount of clicking done after the game starts). The game creator can move players around between the two sides as needed to assign teams properly. Note that Top vs Bottom only works for games with two sides - if you want to play 2x2x2 games, you will still need to use Melee.
Adds support for Game Recording. When a game is over, there will be a new button "Save Replay" in the victory/defeat screen. If you save a replay, you can watch it at a future date. Replays are saved to the "replay" folder inside your Maps folder. Create a game and pick your replay from the "replay" folder. A replay is always passworded. Up to 7 other people can join your replay game to watch it with you; chat is from the people currently connected to the replay game. Replay files can be transferred to other people automatically (if someone joins your replay game, they get your replay transferred to them via the automatic map download facility), or you can copy your replay files (replays end in .REP) from your "replay" folder to a desired destination manually. NOTE: game recording does not work for Team games (Team Melee, Team Free for All, Team Capture the Flag).
Adds support for gateway selection. You can now specify which Battle.net cluster to connect to. In normal cases, you will do nothing, and you will be sent to the "closest" Battle.net cluster. If you wish to override the automatic selection, you can pick a cluster manually.
Save Game clarification - the save game window now shows: Saving Multiplayer Game Save Game Name: XXX in order to avoid the "Saving StarCraft Virus 1.0 to Hard Disk" joke.
If you are really clever, you can crush tanks by landing buildings on them. This is the unexpected consequence to fixing a cheese that allowed players to have siege tanks underneath barracks.
Better proxy support
Clearer battle.net messages.
Updated "Connecting to fastest server" messages to be clearer.
Ladders maps updated.
Ladder cheating fix - Ladder map alteration fix (Japanese version, too!)
Fixed various language translation problems.
Fixed "gliding SCV" and "teleporting drone" bugs

8. Fixed various replay issues.
Fixed a bug where Protoss and Terran victory and defeat background screens did not display.
Siege tanks no longer explode when placed on a beacon.
Added LAN play via UDP.
Fixed latency issue with Windows 2000

9. Fixed a bug involving burrowed units - if a burrowed lurker was attacked by air, it would stop acquiring other targets. Changed so that non-AI lurkers won't unburrow when attacked by air, which is a better idea all around.
Fixed a bug where a drone could skate across terrain to an arbitrary destination after failing to build an extractor.

10. Korean text is now preserved when it is sent to or received from Battle.net.
Fixed a bug that hindered sound on NT machines.
Fixed a bug that enabled you to make a Command Center slide into a location by building a Comsat Station then canceling it due to lack of resources.
Fixed a bug related to a Drone flying when surrounded by other units.
Fixed a bug that would give you an assertion when you tell a drone to burrow as it is about to morph into a building.
Fixed a bug that caused Templars to fly across the map when interrupting an Archon Merge.
Fixed a bug involving a drone getting confused when receiving a second build order while in transit to complete the first one.

11. Fixed a bug that allowed SCV's to heal Marines.
Fixed a bug that allowed Zerg to build without the need for creep.
Fixed a bug that allowed buildings to be stacked on top of each other.
Fixed a Mac bug that prevented StarEdit from running.
Fixed a Mac bug where background music stopped after the first piece.

No bugs, indeed!

[th15]

Umm the issue never was that CoH has more bugs than it should. The issue is how long it's taking to resolve what I perceive as simple fixes.

[Moe]

"Perceive" being the operative word here. PS, it took years to iron out all of the bugs in Starcraft.

[noskills1965]

Are they gonna fix the error couldnot connect to all players when you wanna yoin a game in the lobby? that wuold be nice.

[th15]

I can't make a fair comparison as I don't know how swiftly blizzard implemented patches once a bug was found. However, the problems in CoH now are taking longer than I feel it should. They were reported an documented pretty damned soon after it first came out on the 11th. Relic only promised to actually release a patch (creation of this thread) after I'd pointed out that Relic was screwing with us since they hadn't even promised to patch the game. Even then, they have not acknowledged clearly that these issues will be resolved. So after all this time, the patch could very well come out and only address translation and localization issues.

In my opinion, Relic isn't devoting the care and dedication CoH deserves, post-release. I mean, why even bother making such an excellent game then leave such glaringly obvious bugs.

This thread was created on the 11th of this month saying it will take 2-3 weeks. On the 12th buggo stated that the changelog will only be released closer to date of patch release.

So, in hlaf to one-third of the projected time taken, they haven't gotten enough issues down in concrete to post a changelog yet. On top of this, surely the patch process did not start on the 11th itself. Surely the hardworking folks at Relic started work earlier than that. Right? I sure hope so.

[Starfisher]

They are not going to post a changelog because people will bitch about it no matter what is in it. They gain nothing from throwing a bone to a gathering of jackals.

I mean, why even bother making such an excellent game then leave such glaringly obvious bugs.

They weren't glaringly obvious enough to be caught during the beta. As everyone has been desperately trying to get you to understand, releasing a game inevitably results in people doing things you wouldn't expect and generating "glaringly obvious" problems. It's an inevitability of games. All games in the past five years have had "glaringly obvious" problems when released, because that is the nature of software development.

[Moe]

Good point there actually. The last time Relic tried to release a couple of wallpapers for the community people screamed bloody murder over alleged false advertising, because the wallpapers included units that didn't make it into the game.

I really don't blame them for not wanting to release a changelog that isn't final. The second someone finds something in that log that isn't included in the patch, people will start bitching like crazy again.

Relic only promised to actually release a patch (creation of this thread) after I'd pointed out that Relic was screwing with us

I'm fairly sure that you give yourself way too much credit there.

So, in hlaf to one-third of the projected time taken, they haven't gotten enough issues down in concrete to post a changelog yet. On top of this, surely the patch process did not start on the 11th itself. Surely the hardworking folks at Relic started work earlier than that. Right? I sure hope so.

You obviously don't know how the patching process works.

Once the patch is done from the developers' point of view the whole thing gets sent off to QA for testing. That takes a while, and if QA finds any bugs, they send it back for fixing. Once those bugs have been snuffed, the process begins anew.

Before QA has cleared the patch, the changelog isn't final.

[th15]

Heh, I expected more than schoolyard poisoning the well from you.

True, it is a case of perspective. But in the end, what really ticks me off is that Relic has not made a sincere promise to deal with the issues present in anything like a timely manner.

They've also failed to acknowledge that they are aware of these issues and are working to fix them. They've only done that with the connection issue.

The bottom line is that they're just doing their own goddamn thing and expecting us who have already paid for their product to sit quietly by.

Yes, software development is a difficult process and bugs will happen. Bugs will slip through. But that's still no excuse for simply acting as though there is nothing wrong with the product then refuse to give any information because apparently "people like (me) will bitch about it no matter what" they say. And for the longest time, refuse to commit to promising that a patch will even be released.

It is because of the nature of software development that communication with your customers is important. You can't just refuse to say anything on the basis that anything you say will be received badly by at least one party. Yes, you can't please everybody. That's the case in any customer-company relationship. Established public relations protocol is to at least acknowledge the issues present and assure the customer that action is being taken. Hell anyone would tell you that it's better to pre-empt a problem by acknowledging and promising to deal with it than wait for the problem to blow up on its own. What's being done instead is something of a complete blackout. For example, for an official response about drop bugging, a moderator here had to extract a post from another thread and sticky it. Why doesn't Relic just deal with the problem head on and offer the information and assurance on their own accord rather than only when pressed. Why the hell do you have to be the one that explains the patching process to me? Why didn't Relic come out and state it explicitly themselves. It's things like that that make the company appear insincere, noncommital and ultimately of dubious conduct. I'm not saying that that's what they really are, they're just doing a piss poor job of communicating with the community.

To top it off, I've got an moderator calling me a jackal. Wonderful relationship we've got going here.

EDIT: Moe, reference http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=113615 dated 10 october 11pm. This thread created 11th october 9am.

[Rambocop]

Since people here love to mention StarCraft and how great Blizzard was (which it was, and SC is still one of the best RTSs out there), why not compare Relic to the current Blizzard and World of Warcraft, which completely stomps and spits on any notion of "customer support" and "quality assurance"?

[Moe]

Uhm... where did I call you jackal?

In fact, I just did a search. I have been here since october 2003 and not once did I use the word "jackal".

[th15]

Ha I was refering to Starfisher, you're an adiministrator, not a moderator

[Moe]

I'm pretty sure it said "administrator" before you edited it.

[fldash]

I'd agree Moe, especially since he left the 'an' which would procede administrator. He forget to change it to 'a'.

[ProSeries]

Starcraft IS the best RTS ever made. In fact, in my personal opinion, starcraft is the best game ever made. Period.

Having said that, CoH is probably the second best RTS game in my opinion. Great game, really well done. If starcraft didn't exist you guys would be the best RTS

Can't wait for the patch guys. ( please fix the BAR )

[Brat_Boy]

th15, IMO you're bitching about nothing. You should really see some of the less gracious developers out there who get rich off their games (Bethesda used to be great, now they charge for everything and fail to fix things. One patch released, still tons of issues in Oblivion). In your other thread, you complain how the DoW patches were 2 months apart! 2 months! That's nothing! Many games don't see a good patch for 3-4 months, and then there's only 1 or 2 (Bethesda released their first and final patch for Oblivion after more than 2 months, which still failed to address many large bugs. The great TES community actually makes its own patches!)!

[Timeless]

Look, waiting 2 months for a patch is nothing and I'm sorry for my part in starting some of the negativity here. I posted a few pages back that I was worried about the steadily dwindling numbers because during prime time US time, we now have only 800ish online players. A few weeks ago, there was still around 1200 players online even at 1-2 am. Now, an exploit pops up that could use a super fast hotfix. It just saddens me to realize that no matter what, Blizzard games will probably be the only ones where we ever see numbers in the many thousands online. I have no idea why that is, but I'm getting sick of it.

I was around during the beginning of SC, when we had no recordings at all (they were patched in later, if memory serves me correctly) and the game was hardly balanced. It took years to become the balanced masterpiece we all know today. That much is fact. But people have no patience anymore - it's got to be perfect yesterday.

At the same time, a lot can be learned from Blizzard. Many of their patches not only fix things but add numerous maps, new units (ie WC3, new heros, for example) and other such goodies.

[Noir]

Reputation goes a hell of a long way.

Well, not that Relic doesn't have one. From what I can see elsewhere, it indeed does. It's not a sterling one like Blizzard's, but they've made a name for themselves ever since HW and especially after DoW for making good, fun games. In any case, there are worse ways to get famous/infamy from the internet, like I dunno...EA/DICE? Red tag bug from BF2 1.0 right up to BF2142 anyone?

[Starfisher]

I can understand frustration at the lack of a hotfix for what appears to be a very simple exploit. On the other hand, I can also understand if it's not so simple. Ultimately, I'm pretty sure relic knows the stakes in their game, and since they went through the trouble of making RO, I'm sure they want people to actually use it. There's more to this than we're seeing.

[Noir]

Well we'd certainly hope so, but on the flipside I can see where they're going with when they're requesting for a few more tidbits other than "We're working on it.". Now I've been here since before Homeworld 2, and I'm sure Timeless has been as well, and I'm more than aware that Relic is notorious for being cryptic in the past. However this is another era and we're talking about a different audience here like it or not. I know that Tranj has already put up something pertaining to this as a sticky, and we know that SLI issues are again going to be fixed, but I think some of the people are asking for a tidbit or two about connection issues and the like.

Of course, if any whines come out of that, then I'm not going to grant them even a second thought if they complain about censorship after that. I've been to 4chan and the like and I'm aware that gamers now have a "mememememememenownownownow" attitude that I find just as reprehensible as Star or Moe or Delphy or Timeless does. However I just don't think it's like that in this case however...we'll see.

[juiceman1_2000]

1. Customers want to know exactly what will be fixed

What purpose would it serve to specifically say what will be fixed, instead of releasing the info along with the patch? What good is that information to the customer? The Dev won't add or subtract from it, so telling the customer serves one purpose only, to be open and communicative. Which I think this thread's title and opening post, with time schedule and all, has already achieved. They've added a promise for a changelog, which is unnecessary IMO, but a nice communicative, 'caring business' touch, and it will come sometime before the 2-3 week patch is out. Wait for it, that is all you should do. Being asked to wait that duration, at this point, seems quite reasonable to me. I expect it to take less if anything else comes up.

IMO, putting out a changelog would just allow for more 'arguments' about the whole complex of problems as evidenced in this thread. Even if people complained bitterly upon seeing the changelog, and its a surety some would be dissatisfied, nothing would be changed by the Dev. It is a bad idea in the current climate, that is my view.

2. 'Forum staff' want customers to stop whining and complaining and wait.

In this case, I agree that we should just wait, for the stated due date. After that, understand that it is the job of a 'community' to keep the Dev on their toes with complaints, and calls for a better game. As much as I don't personally like how the forums are run on certain issues, I understand how difficult it is, for both sides. When someone loves / enjoys a game, when you choose a game as 'the game for you', you expect more from it than another, you hold it up to a high standard. You nit pick sometimes, and are even overbearing, but it is all because you want this thing you identify with, to be the best it can be. You don't just play RTSs, you play COH, the best fuckin RTS there is. It better be 'good' or it'll feel like just another bugged game.

3. Dev gets compared to other devs

It is inevitable, and often unfair. But tell me you don't compare your girl or boyfriend to others. It's natural and instictive to make comparisons. Comparisons to Blizz tend to suggest Relic does poorly, those to EA suggest they are near godly. I made a post about this a few days ago that noone understood. Take the good with the bad, don't be insecure or vain, only what you do matters.

4. People's personal stances and attitudes

Age has little to do with maturity, experiences have only a little more, but understanding and interpreting of your experiences is your ticket. There are a lot of immature posters here, a lot less, but immature staff too. Be patient where necessary, and know when to just say your piece or act, being balanced and fair in your posts, policing yourself as I called it, is what you should do.

[halo42]

I just want a patch that will prevent the game from constantly crashing on me... I'd be quite happy with that...

[FLIPINOM4D]

there are a few bugs they need to fix, hope the bombing run bug will be fixed in this one, and hope the patch itself releases soon.

[Valdarez]

Reading through the posts here, it's plain to see that the players want more communication from Relic. Maybe we can have a thread that's locked, that contains a list of the identified problems (major ones) and the progress they are making towards solving it.

For example, the drop / hack problem. Was it a small problem, or a large one? From a post I read at gamereplays.org, someone there indicated that it was more than a minor fix that required a substantial rewrite of the networking/communications piece of the system (I'm paraphasing, probably badly here, so no flames please). Yet, there are other posts indicating that no client side changes were necessary and only a few server side scripts needed modified to fix the problem. Talk about a mixed signal!

The community would be a lot more forgiving if they had more insight into the causes of the problems and the actions/remedies that were taking place. Relic doesn't need to address everything, but providing information along these lines for the top 5 to 10 problems would go a long way towards pacifying the community until a patch is released.

Let us know you recognize the problem, if you have identified the cause, and the progress you have made towards fixing it.

[Noir]

Oh we have plenty of communication, what we don't have are details. Tranj and Buggo have learned their craft well from Mr. Garden.

[address.unknown]

I swear i fell asleep waiting for a patch a week back. :P

[juiceman1_2000]

mr garden? whos that?

[Timeless]

Alex.

[Freek]

Any updates on the timescale?

[Elando]

isn't Mr Garden operation market garden?

[-=whoopy=-]

you mean some kind of code name ?