Thanks for the update, gents.
Thanks for the update, gents.
Hopefully the Connection Problem messages in the Lobby will be fixed.
eeeeeeeeeexcellent *taps fingers together*
nice work Relic
I have never seen anyone successful spamming one unit. What is it that you are seeing?Originally Posted by Sporky
He's referring to the Rifleman spam which, in my opinion, is easily countered by Pumas with MG42 backup early and Ostwinds with infantry (to take out ATs) later.
Pumas? Ostwinds? Err - there are no Pumas or Ostwinds when someone spams Riflemansquads.He's referring to the Rifleman spam which, in my opinion, is easily countered by Pumas with MG42 backup early and Ostwinds with infantry (to take out ATs) later.
Because this is Relic, not EA. Relic prefers to test and THEN release, rather than release, then rely on customers to test.Originally Posted by Marauder84
Lol, nice dig. But you missed out the part that EA will then CHARGE you for it!Because this is Relic, not EA. Relic prefers to test and THEN release, rather than release, then rely on customers to test.
It's easy to make claims with a lack of experience, FL. Heck I was 30-2 in custom 1v1 Good Players only and I would have never seen the problem based on the competition in those games.
Tranj, you didn't see the Sepha vs Hero replays or the others that have been posted where the Allied player wins with spamming a single unit, sometimes up to 10 squads of Riflemen? I think that's what he was talking about.
Fl does make a good point about pumas supported by MGs - I do this myself - but it's not that cut and dry, not at all.
Anyway, sorry for derailing, I will make this my last post on this subject in this thread. Again, I apologise.
Thank you for the update! Much appreciated!
No worries. I just played an allied player that pushed me back with a big wave of Bar wielding infantry, then my mg teams got their first upgrade...two MG squads and 1 Flammenwerfer and he lost about 7 squads of rifleman. I staggered my MG teams forward and took back positions with MP40 wielding (1 level upgraded) Volks. He got one M10 out that I popped with about 4 shots from PF's. I think some people can be successful with only 1 unit type, but the people that I have seen do that have been so good, that they would be able to beat most people anyway. In a fair match of skill, they would never spam one unit type.Originally Posted by Timeless_OMO
Exactly. I don't think anyone uses weapon team upgrades as they should.No worries. I just played an allied player that pushed me back with a big wave of Bar wielding infantry, then my mg teams got their first upgrade...two MG squads and 1 Flammenwerfer and he lost about 7 squads of rifleman. I staggered my MG teams forward and took back positions with MP40 wielding (1 level upgraded) Volks. He got one M10 out that I popped with about 4 shots from PF's. I think some people can be successful with only 1 unit type, but the people that I have seen do that have been so good, that they would be able to beat most people anyway. In a fair match of skill, they would never spam one unit type.
I won't take that as an insult, because I'm sure you didn't mean it that way. But I feel like I have plenty of experience to make these claims and Tranj just proved my point.It's easy to make claims with a lack of experience, FL.
Ok, Tranj, you have me there as I never bother with vet upgrades in 1on1 - I used to but abandoned them after a while. Maybe it is this simple. HERO in his games vs Sepha never got them, either. In fact, I can't remember ever seeing ANYONE in a single recording getting the vet upgrades. The vet upgrade for MGS are really this good?
Maybe I'm wrong and will admit it if I find that to be true. This is the one thing I've not tried.
But one question? How the heck did he LOSE 7 squads without retreating them first? I've never seen that happen.
And Tranj didn't prove your point, he offered a solution you've never offered or suggested. Instead, it's been garbage from most ppl about superior positioning, etc, as if the rest of us that do play competitively just were too unskilled or dumb to think of such obvious things. Advice like this, stuff we've all considered, is what causes these debates and prompts us to say fine, post a rec of you beating ANYONE good that truly does a full on assault of riflemen spam, which I still invite you to do. Also, just because Tranj beat one guy that riflemen spammed or that I have beaten a few riflemen spammers, doesn't really prove there is no imbalance. I also beat Hunt spam in the early days of WC3 when everyone was screaming imba and they were eventually nerfed because they were in fact utterly ridiculous back then. Instead, it was often that the player was far less skilled than I or made huge blunders that allowed me to win anyway. Tranj is the first person to offer a solution I was unaware of - never has it been even slightly mentioned by anyone, anywhere. On top of that, he's speaking from true experience, offering what might be a true solution. Notice how I responded well to that sort of thing and said I'd admit if I was wrong?
I can't tell you what will be in the patch yet because it hasn't gone through THQ QA and the content may change.
But closer to the time of the release I can post a changelog.
Hey, Buggo, what about those Axis vet upgrade stats? That would be sweet and hold us over until we have more patch info.
its just nice to know there is a light at the end of the tunnel and its not a train coming our way.
Will try.Originally Posted by Timeless_OMO
Thanks Buggo! and good post Tranj, I still want a rematch BTW!
Wow, Relic is great. Reminds me of Egosoft without Starforce (still a good company, though). And seeing a publisher actually take care and post in the community forums as a rep...that's rare.
He would have been better off retreating yes. He wasn't a top player (it was a ranked match, and me not being close to a top player, I don't get matched with them). I love the vet upgrades for special weapons teams, and for light vehicles as well. I tend to skip tanks as Axis altogheter as most allies put most of their pressure on the fuel in the games I play. I think the vet upgrades allow the mg teams to suppress faster, and more squads at once. Not sure about that though.Originally Posted by Timeless_OMO
I believe at one level they get an accuracy or damange increase that makes very short work on any squad that enters it's firing arc. Headshots all around.
Europe In Ruins :: Persistent Online War for Company of Heroes and Opposing Fronts (MMORTS)
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I'll have to check on that...never bothered getting weapon team veterancy. MGs can be extremely useful though, so worth checking out. And again, thanks for keeping us up to date.
Yeah but EA likes to call them expantion packs and not a Patch. I dont think patch is in their vocabulary...
Because this is Relic, not EA. Relic prefers to test and THEN release, rather than release, then rely on customers to test.
Lol, nice dig. But you missed out the part that EA will then CHARGE you for it!
Maybe upgrading vet makes them useful, but one of my frustration is the utter lack of documentation on the effects. Case in point, people saying 'orly?' when Tranj mentions it. So yes, meanwhile please do give us some detailed info about that kinda stuff. opcorn:
There are plenty of ways to stop a Rifle spam. I mean come on are you for reals? Like Tranj I am not in the top rankings of 1v1 but I'm not new to the game (200+ games). Use firestorm or force retreat on them with terror doctrine. Use flak panzers. Use multiple MGs. Use grenadiers with shrek upgrades to blast them to hell. Use mortars. Anything that has a splash damage works well when people spam you with multiple squads bunched together. Pin them in the front with an mg and flank with volks upgraded with mp40. do a grenade barrage with storm troopers.
It seems that people like to look at things from a surface point of view and only that. They dont wnat to delve deep into it and come up with a, what seems more complex, but is truly more effective way. Yes, I have beaten back decent players who did the infantry rushs. It was in team games so maybe that has something to do with it. It just seems like people try to solve multiple problems with one solution and honestly that does not work 100% of the time. Different situations call for different tactics and being able to adapt to something you did not expect will win you games.
This complaint reminds me of the Tiger complaints. When first released the chat rooms were filled with cries about Tigers being over powered. Guess what? Theyre gone. People learned how to defeat it so its not a big deal anymore...
I just find it hilarious how people like to bitch and moan about having to nerf certain units all the time instead of over coming it on their own... Makes you wonder how people do in real life with obstacles that come upon them. Do you hide in the corner screaming for mercy or do you stand up and fight back and make something happen?
Wrong, Maurauder. Never has a game in history been balanced out of the box - name one, you can't. Yet there have always been naysayers in situations where it turned out nerfs were needed, like in WC3, in RoL with Vinci protorushing, etc. Tigers were complained about by noobs, with nothing to back that up. Now, we were responding to Tranj, but promised to keep balance out of this thread - if you would like to discuss this issue further, take it to the thread on Allies being OP where we have been heatedly debating this topic. I'm no admin, but I'm asking you to take this conversation to that topic instead of this one. And, one more thing, stop acting all condescending. I certainly didn't start playing rts games yesterday, nor complain about things that just "beat me". If you knew anything at all about me from other games or from other forums, you'd clearly see that I'm very cautious and slow with claims of imba. In fact, I often preach the value of tough challenges, delicious problems to be solved, so save your soap box and add something intelligible to the debate, just not here, do it in the thread already up in the strat section. We've already taken this far enough off topic. Thanks for your kindly cooperation.
Wow, this is great news. Thanks for the update.
Great news, thanks for telling us! It's good to have a company that keeps it's fanbase informed
What!? Excuse me, but have you noticed that you are talking about a patch for a RELEASED PRODUCT? I'm bent about this after what I went through to get my copy the day it came out. At least a bank would be paying me interest for loaning them money - all I got out of Relic was a broken game.Originally Posted by David Webb
Balance is up to opinion and opinion alone. And I personally would say that this game is damn well balanced. Yeah sure noobs were the ones bitching about the Tiger, but it was not just noobs. I was not writing that post as personal attack on you so calm yourself and take your anti-depresents. Go jerk off and releave some pressure. Whatever you do, I dont really care.
The fact still remains no matter how many tweaks Relic releases when it comes to balance issues people will still find something else to bitch about. And when its all said and done and all of the units have been tweaked to Hell and back the game will be ruined and loses its appeal to everyone. Ive seen it happen before and it will happen again.
So get off your high horse, dont take things said over the internet by someone so damned personal and last but not least don't tell me what to post and where to post it. Like you said you're not an admin nor will you ever be. If an admin asks/tells me to stop posting about balancing issues in this thread then I will. But until then I will post it. No admin from what I have quickly read in this thread has said anything about stopping the balancing issues discussion, only you because you seemingly didnt want to bring attention to yourself and seem like a damn cry baby.
Again, take it to the appropriate place if you want to debate balance and try to keep ahold of your obvious temper and refrain from tantrums. I'm serious, if you want to debate, I'm more than happy and willing to do it in the right venue. Out of respect for the other forum members, I again request you restrain yourself and do it in the thread made to discuss this issue. Thanks man. And, btw, quit being such an angry little person. Life is just too short.
Thanks for the update Buggo. Great to see Relic having such good standards in terms of contact with it's community.
2-3 weeks is absurd. This game is in desperate need of a patch now. You should probably take down that first post in the news section when logged into the game. That statement is so untrue.
Stop bitching. 2-3 weeks is very soon in the grand scheme of things. Many developers don't let out the first patch for a couple months (Bethesda for Oblivion), and often no estimation is given.
I remember the first major DoW patch taking about this long to be released, and that game had more problems than CoH. This was before Buggo too mind you.
I don't think this was intended to be a "Patch Suggestions!" thread, folks.
Also, the game was released a month ago and has already been patched to 1.2. People have been making fairly impactful balancing suggestions for the past month. How can you expect a game developer to read, discuss, implement, and thoroughly test these suggestions in such a short timeframe? Yes, there are some bugs that need addressed, too, and the online component needs a booster shot, but there are so many people here demanding EVERYTHING ... RIGHT NOW ... it's just being unreasonable.
Personally, I'm going to cringe the day the patch is released, because there will be a ton of people flooding these forums in psychotic breakdowns because their specific suggestions were passed over or the patch didn't include the mod tools (even though THQ/Relic have already stated they will be a separate download).
Have some patience people, try to remember this is just a game, and try to remember it's only been a month. Relax.
Thank you very much Buggo!
Tactical Onslaught Nemesis
There is a suggestion thread just below this one in the forum. For the lazy / visually impared the link is here :
In need of a patch, yes.Originally Posted by DimMaK
Desperatly? I wouldn't say so if comparing the game to the mainstream rts games out there. It's very much playable right now.
I don't mind if Relic takes its time, but I would hate to see cheap fixes coming out.
By cheap fixes i mean:
e.g. instead of actualy working on the well known A.I. problems involving infantry moving away from cover while engaging the enemy, or tanks not firing from max
range, they (relic) would add a hold position button; hence, the player can now order his/her units to hold position.
I'm not saying that adding a hold position button is bad. I'm saying that using this "new" feature as a fix IS a bad thing.
Just an update. This patch will address a wide variety of issues covering pretty much every area of the game -- SP missions, gameplay, some art, performance issues, balance tweaks, along with some of the other things Tranj has already mentioned.
As I'm sure you can appreciate, patching a game like CoH is a hugely complex process which involves extensive testing of the entire game, and every version (so, all locales -- US, UK, Germany, France, etc. etc.).
Hopefully this gives you some idea of why it takes a bit of time to put this stuff together and to validate our fix list.
Once we know EXACTLY what has been fixed, we'll post the list for you guys to rant/rave about.
Thanks for your patience!
Raphael van Lierop
Cookies for the whole relic balance team then! For some reason I love balance patches as they flip things over! Thanks for update! Updates for the win.
Hope it contains the editor, I'm itching to make some maps:baloons:
Doesn't sound like we'll see any new 1on1 maps for ladder anytime soon.
Actually, most the testing work is being done by THQ QA, so cookies for the whole QA team!Cookies for the whole relic balance team then! For some reason I love balance patches as they flip things over! Thanks for update! Updates for the win.
Originally Posted by HaartThe mod tools will NOT be part of the patch.Originally Posted by David Webb
Yay Thanks Relic and THQ (I drive past your building in LA every day :P.) Damned that Rymed...Im just good like that? I look forward to your patch and Know it will be good. Spend your time and make it work well, dont worry about the whiners saying it takes too long, a good patch is always better than a fast one. Amazing game btw, still loving it and not doing too bad on the ranked ladder.
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