[DC 1.1] For the Greater Good - Tau Tactica

[HERO]

I found that Tau vs Necron games are very dependant on Maps lately. On that rediculous map called Fear, Necrons absolutely man-handle Tau because of the linear map design and that slag deposit sitting right infront of your base. That basically means Necron techs X amount faster and has almost unlimited resources. On average size maps such as Quests Triumph, the Tau and Necron player normally have much better games. Only on small maps, I find a fast rush to Vespids extremely troublesome for Necron players to handle early. Especially when its cooped with a good FW squad sent immediately as support. That, followed by TC, is extremely difficult for Necron players to handle. With that being said, I'd have to say that depending on map size, the game changes dramatically.

The strat that I use vs Necrons is TC + FW control on larger/medium maps and Vespids on medium/smaller maps. I rarely follow up with Kroot untill Tier2 and that's simply because my TC + FW + Snares can handle Necron Tier1 relatively fine. Even Wraiths drop to good Snare positioning and micro. Once Tier2 comes with Tau, Kroot Barracks + Feral Leap is a must.

I've played some solid Necron players and I find the map dependacy a little too linear. On maps like Fear, I know that I'm pretty much screwed and on maps like Blood River, I know it's in my favor. I wish I didn't have to feel that way about certain matchups tt.

[SPADEZ]

Well most Tau strategies work wonders with crazy terrain. If you could possibly get a harbringer out.. you may be able to turn the tides.. just hope they don't target it.. try to keep immortals and NW's occupied with whatever. But I doubt that 1v1 battles will really last beyond tier 2.5....

@ir0n haha, yeah.. You know what I think they should allow or something? Is to be able to have a maximum of TWO squads of Vespids. Instead of costing 300 req for a full squad.. how about 180 for 3/5 squad. or 120 for a 2/5 squad?? AND increase their build time...

If we could have 2 vespid squads early on... (oh and the shred ability would have to be a research upgrade) it may turn the tide in our favor against Melee NW's..

Anyone have thoughts on it?

[GRIM Avocado]

Well... it's really hard for me to get good games going :/ I usually pull noobs in auto atm, or nobody at all... so it could be awhile til i get any reps up :P

[SPADEZ]

Personally I wish they changed their online system instead of having Gamespy.. I for one.. am not fond of Gamespy.. I wish Relic actually had something similar to Battle.net (blizzard online system..)

[TheEmperor]

*edit* oi.

[ir0nside]

I've actually recently tried skipping the initial Generator, so that I can get a very fast second FW squad out. This means that I won't be able to use snares or get a flamer for the commander, but honestly I've found that Snares are -less- necessary against the Necrons due to their slow speed.. and the flamer -less- useful against Warriors as they rally so quickly. I might be wrong about the flamer, I still need to do some testing with it to see if I am simply not breaking their Warriors enough (which would in turn reduce my FW casualties).

So far it hasn't made a real difference. The extra firepower early makes a difference, but it isn't long before they just wear them down as usual.

I think the real key might be killing the Lord, but that is extremely difficult due to his ability to teleport. Bah, my brains are frying.

I'd just like to point out Kroot hounds aren't part of the Kauyon path, you can build them with either Mont'ka or Kauyon.

That is incorrect. Kroot Hounds require the Kauyon Command to be built.

[Kronickle]

Yeah, i went no TC last night and my first squad of FW's couldn't even scratch the NL. 2nd squad came out and he chased them all around, I kited him w/ 2 squads but they couldn't hurt him enough before a reinforced NW squad came to overwhelm me. I think I would've done better with a mixed force. The NW's just ignored my 2 FW squads till they took down my LP, they reinforced quicker than I could drop em.

Besides Necrons, has anyone tried this strat:

Load up an invisible Devilfish with 1 Pathfinder squad to keep them safe.
Will they still work as detectors?

[Aver]

as i posted earlier i'm having trouble keepign my devilfish out of site can anybody give me some tips on how to avoid lps or turrets cause they get murdered before they can unload some times

[Kronickle]

Turrets are detectors so you can't really sneak them in a base. I'm still curious as to whether Pathfinders detection will work when they are inside the Devilfish.

[SPADEZ]

I doesn't.. I've tried it. Too bad it doesn't work.. lousy Pathfinders.. haha

@ ir0n: Since you use Devilfish alot, is there a cap for them? Or can you actually have 20 of them? haha. I must say they waaay too good for only ONE vehicle slot. They have very good firepower and I love 'em just as much as you do.. Of course, not as much as you.. since y'know I love the Mont'ka :P

@Aver It depends on how the base is set up.. if there is one entrance that has a turret try to get to the other side. If there is only one.. you could try to sacrifice a unit.. like use the unit to distract the turrets while you let your devilfish sneak by.. hopefully the enemy player isn't watching :P

[ir0nside]

Depending on the turret placement, I commonly just run the Devilfish straight past the turret, unload, deploy, and let them go to work - just so long as you do so out of the turret's range, there's no real problem.

[taskmaster-]

i do not understand why everybody is so excited to haev the crisis suite vs SM or Chaos... FW with TArgeting Optics can literaly reape off the tactical squad, and even the Possesed...
the real problems are the dreddy and defy... but they can be managed with some good micro of stealth teams.... which is what makes teh game great to me...

[SPADEZ]

Well.. SM slaughter Krootox... and the Knarloc.. they are deamons.. (I'm not sure about hounds.. I think they are just heavy infantry)

As for Chaos.. Mont'ka are pretty efective. Though krootox help against all of their CC. So it is a matter of opinon against chaos.

[ir0nside]

Task, read the Mont'ka vs. Kauyon section. Krootox are the real reason to go Kauyon right now, and they are killed handily by Grey Knights. The FW upgrades are great, but a Whirlwind will totally blow FWs around. Crisis Suits can jump back and fry the Whirlwind very quickly, for example, whereas a Krootox would take a long time to do so, and would be killed by properly utilized GKs before it arrived.

[bavbav]

can anyone tell me if you can cc ranged units with stealth suits and disrupt them from ranged atacking, if they have no detectors that is. ?

[ImmortalChaos]

Stealthed units do not disrupt.

[ir0nside]

Updated the Kroot Rush build, and made a few tweaks here and there, nothing major.

[Jarso]

Newsflash, if you think the GK of the SM killed Krootox fast, wait till you lose one to the Kiss of Death of the Eldar Harlequins, one hit kill the damn krootox, and he has two of them, I wasn't able to see it because the great number of troops in the battle.
So you guys know about it if you don't know it already.

[Vorlock]

Ironside, have you tried using stealth suits or your devilfish to spot for the firewarriors? I would THINK that the firewarriors supperior range would be "enough" to kill the necron warriors. Sure, you will have to dance some, but you should still have windows to fry the necrons.

I am thinking the following: The necron warriors are basically continually marching to your base, accomanied by his lord. You have a stealth suit ahead of your deployed firewarriors, awaiting the enemy. The warriors march into range and start taking fire (and losses). At this point I assume the lord teleports and tries to disprupt your firewarriors, so you have to be dancing at least one squad at all times. The necron warriors still arent shooting you yet, as you are too far away. Your firewarrior, however, can see and shoot the necron warriors because the stealthsuit is spotting. Once the necron warriors get into shooting range (and continue to close, as they are going for melee) you move your whole army back another space and resetup. (Probably still dancing the 1 squad from the lord).

This would only work until he brings scarabs or techs up to wraiths, but it might work for a while, and the increased range/damage upgrades for you should help extend that time too.

Dunno if it will work, but its an idea and you did request ideas.

[Aver]

ok seems like i have been posting in this thread alot but any way. My question is i like the idea behind tau pathfinders & i dont mind the fact they dont do much damage i just have an issue with the range in which they use that ability. they have to move in to almost melee range it seems like to mark a target also it's really hard to select that unit on the field due to the fact that it looks very similar fw squads but i guess a solution to that would be to hot key them. Does anybody else have this problem of losing your path finders very easily specially while marking targets. If so can anybody help me out here

[ir0nside]

Vorlock, the main problem is that I am getting bogged down in tier 1 against 2-3 squads of reinforcing Warriors, along with a well-microed Necron Lord. Keep in mind, I don't really have problems against players who go for economy builds, or extreme rushes such as Warrior/Lord first. It's specifically the ability of free and cheaply reinforced Necrons which have very high accuracy while moving which simply win the game of attrition if I dance away from them.

Whenever they get enough range to get some good firing-time on the Warriors, the Necron Lord just teleports in and starts chasing my squads around, buying time for his Warriors to get into shoot-walk range again.

I'm going to be experimenting more and more, and watching replays. I've recently come across a build which has fared well against this in a few replays, and am going to be testing it out. It's pretty contrary to common thought on these forums, however.

[ir0nside]

Well, I think I might be finally cracking the issue - I need to play against some better Necron players to test this out, first. Hrm - I'll update as soon as I confirm over the course of a few more games.

I'm also going to be heavily testing Crisis Suits soon, with Flamers specifically. I'm going to test the hell out of them, to get some more definitive answers regarding their use.

Stay tuned.

[Compeador]

Just read the tut, nicely done. Thanks for using spoiler tags, that would have been ridiculous if it were all expanded.

I know a lot of Tau players have trouble vs necron, and i'm fine tuning a rush build that effectively takes them out of the game early if done right. It's worked so far against every necron except ILike_tau_win and Rank13, the two "best" necrons atm... although I believe crons to be rather skilless. I'll not elaborate much on it, as I don't want to give away my strats to people who'll face me in auto :P but it involves kroot and vespids.

Pretty cool that the game with me and DAS is featured in it. It's almost all infantry fighting, as neither of us really ever had the float to go vehicles, but it's definitely anexciting and educational watch. I think that IG will actually be one of Tau's hardest matchups in the coming weeks, for various reasons that I've explained to DAS_CAPN.

Only thing I think is wrong about the tut is the building of both barracks. An extra production building for a unit of different orientation is just too much req to throw out when it should be focused more on fighting, reinforcements and new squads. I'll either go all CC or all ranged, but rarely a mixture of both. I find it a lot more simple and economical to stick with one orientation... ranged or CC, than to try to mix the two.

I'd like to make some notes about tau vehicles though.
The devilfish can be used in a pinch to save your units from focused fire or melee, and to redeployy in a different, unexpected area. You can see a single example of this in the match between myself and DAS_CAPN, but it's definitely useful, especially for the devilfish's low cost.
The harbinger drone ship should be used against heavily CC oriented armies. Nobs, zerks, kroot, banshees, anything that picks up something sharp and swings it at you, as they'll have a tougher time targetting and destroying the drones than a shooty army would.
The skyray should be used against masses of ranged units. Extra points if they're expensive low HP ranged masses such as an enemy fire warrior massing tau. Not really to be used vs CC oriented armies, as the barrage sometimes tracks the squad. If they close in with your firewarriors, the missiles do full friendly fire.... watch out.
The drone squads are kinda neato, though I haven't really found a solid use for them yet. Yea sure maybe they protect crits and relics, but if I'm going to invest the req power and support cap into buying them, I want a definite use for them.

All in all, a good tut. Good work, and keep it up. Any questions for me (the "top" tau player atm?)just ask.

[ir0nside]

I'm actually in agreement with you as to the "two barracks" approach. It seems I'm just realizing in recent days what you'd realized long ago with that genetically engineered RTS brain of yours.

It seems that one of my big shortcomings (and reasons for feeling the need to build Kroot barracks to support Firewarriors and so forth) was due to my focus on fewer, but more heavily reinforced squads. This simply doesn't work for the Tau and their setup time - with 2 "big" FW squads, you end up running the entire match and not fighting. I've begun getting 4 quick FW squads rather quickly, which allows one to have multiple squads shooting up melee units which are chasing your others around - much more effective, and I haven't felt the need to build a Kroot barracks lately.

I praise the Devilfish every chance I get, honestly. One thing many people don't realize is, is that they provide a lot of firepower for such a cheap unit, on top of all their other uses.

I'll probably send you a few PMs in the near future to sharpen the guide up with your perspectives. Thanks a ton.

[Sandanjuu]

I praise the Devilfish every chance I get, honestly. One thing many people don't realizeis that they provide a lot of firepower for such a cheap unit, on top of all their other uses.

I agree with this. The devilfish is easily, in my opinion, the best transport in the game. Three main guns vs infantry, infiltrated and fast compared to the speed of most of our units. If broadsides actually worked I'd love the devilfish even more.

As it stands, you can get 6 Krootox and 2 devilfish for your vehiclecap. Nice little base punching force, especially with how ridiculous Krootox are right now.

[Kronickle]

Okay, so Tau has a strong T4 after all, but how do you get that far? It seems like every race just has to spam walkers in T2 to overrun the Tau. 2-3 Dreds walking forward with heavy bolter SM back up, what do you do?

What is the best Tau AV unit in the early tiers?

[Njorhg]

Pathfinders paired with broadsides work really well
Not too much to do Kroot side...

[Kronickle]

AV seems kind of weird with Tau. Like no single unit is good at it. Something always has to be paired with Pathfinders, or weak Stealthsuits upgraded with expensive stuff. It seems too easy for a smart enemy to just eliminate the fragile Pathfinders/Broadsides/Stealthsuits and there goes all your AV.

One more question though, what exactly does the sonic pulse ability do to an enemy, and how does the Vespid leader change their effectiveness?

[Njorhg]

Oh no, I meant Broadsides + Pathfinders = OMGWTFBBQ

A simple team of Broadsides certainly deal adequate damage even with their rockets... Which I have started to use more with how railguns are so random

[Soundwave]

I love packing a devilfish with two squads of pathfinders and a full squad of broadsides, or vice-versa. but i enjoy having two markerlights, especially since you can't aim the broadsides.
I have a general question tho, when you guys hot-key troops do you make one group a hotkey? like my commander is always one 1 and my stealth troops are usually 0 and maybe 9. then my kroot are 5 and 6,leaving 2-4 for firewarrior squads. the rest get filled by whatever else. I find I run out of numbers to hotkey too so I end up playing with only 10 squads The only hotkey I make that selects multiple units is for my devilfish, I group it with whatever it is transporting. Oh and if I have multiple hammerheads or stingrays I may group them together.
I just find that when you group say two FWs together on one hotkey it isn't that functional (been playing CoH)if I tab to one squad and click to move they both move, don't they? I would love to see a hotkey interface like relic did for Company of Heroes.

[gzyzwc]

Normally I group my commander and 2 FW squads as 1. since I tend to always use them as a large force.

2 is my 2 squads of kroot, to soak up firepower, and harras an enemy, charging them into combat and canabilizing as I go.

Then I put my missle barge's as 3

Broadside squads (1 or 2 depending on map/race) as 4.

Transports as 5

Scout squads I do indipendantly as 6, and 7.

I hotkey my barracks as 0, and my vehicle command as 9. leaving 8 open.

[Soundwave]

now doesn't that leave you feeling like you dont have enough precise control? or does tabbing through your squads and then clicking to move/attack/etc.. only effect the squad you've tabbed to? I don't think it does, if anyone has played CoH they know what I'm talking about, it most certainly should have been put into Dark Crusade, aswell as the tabs for buildings above the squad function menu, great stuff.

[Aver]

Ok ironside i feel your pain with the necron warriors i was in a game today were the person did the same thing where he massed necron warriors & nl. They totall destoryed my commander cause of all the reasons you listed above.... even with a heavy flamer it seemed usless cause there were so many anything i did felt usless. also i believe i did a major screw up & started building a path of enlightment before i even had one squad of fw

[ir0nside]

now doesn't that leave you feeling like you dont have enough precise control? or does tabbing through your squads and then clicking to move/attack/etc.. only effect the squad you've tabbed to? I don't think it does, if anyone has played CoH they know what I'm talking about, it most certainly should have been put into Dark Crusade, aswell as the tabs for buildings above the squad function menu, great stuff.

I agree that the CoH method should have been incorporated into CoH, as it gives a lot more precise control. However, with a lot of practice, your "APM" (Actions Per Minute) will go up. This is a direct parallel to the ability to quickly select squads with your mouse alone, in the middle of a fight, rather than using tab to do so.

also i believe i did a major screw up & started building a path of enlightment before i even had one squad of fw

Yes, that would be suicide. You need Firewarriors out right behind your Commander, and you need to make multiple squads of them rather than reinforcing the ones you have - just keep them at size three, even if that means singularly adding a reinforcement or two. Warning, this only works with intensive micro due to dancing the more numerous but smaller squads around your enemies while others continue firing.. however, that same potential for micro due to more squads is seemingly the key to overwhelming Necron Warriors.

They can only have so many squads, as the fourth takes an eternity to get out, even with 100%. Therefore, if you have 4-5 FW squads, they can only tie up so many of them. I've also found that you need to quickly crush their Warriors, and keep the pressure on. If they manage to disengage and save their Warriors repeatedly, you'll end up facing Wraiths. A single Wraith is enough to devastate a FW squad when it gets in range, and will suddenly compound your problems. It's good to have Devilfish to combat this, but don't stay and fight, as Wraiths are detectors. You need to load them up, drive away, and re-deploy, luring Wraiths out ahead of other units so you can pick them off.

I have a lot more refining to do against Necrons, mind you. I still handily beat other Necron builds, such as very early Warrior rushes and hard-tech builds. It's only the "standard" Lord + Warrior spam early game which gets me.

[Aver]

yea thanks for the tips with the multiple squads just next time i will have to remember not to rush the tech cause thats definalty what got me

[ir0nside]

I've found a new tactic which poses extreme threat to the Greater Good.

Never let Space Marines get Landspeeders and Probes. Together, they can effectivelly slaughter anything you bring to the table, and unless you have an ample supply of Pathfinders to serve as detectors, and are able to kill off all the probes they have escorting the Landspeeders, you will not be able to fend them off. They detect your Stelathsuits, obliterate them, and continue to chew apart your infantry in mere seconds. 3-5 Speeders can tear three squads of reinforced Firewarriors into tiny pieces in under 15 seconds, and are too numerous to EMP grenade (as if they could EMP them all before the XV15s were dead).

You've been warned! More to come.

[VoydAngel]

Ok, I have parsed through the RGDs for the 2 broadside weapons and have posted them here:

Railgun Stats

GameData["accuracy"] = 1.000000
GameData["accuracy_reduction_when_moving"] = 1.000000

GameData......["armour_piercing"] = 0.000000

GameData......01"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 0.000000
GameData......01"]["armour_type"] = infantry_low.lua

GameData......02"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 40.000000
GameData......02"]["armour_type"] = infantry_med.lua

GameData......03"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 40.000000
GameData......03"]["armour_type"] = infantry_high.lua

GameData......04"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 30.000000
GameData......04"]["armour_type"] = infantry_heavy_med.lua

GameData......05"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 20.000000
GameData......05"]["armour_type"] = infantry_heavy_high.lua

GameData......06"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 10.000000
GameData......06"]["armour_type"] = monster_med.lua

GameData......07"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 5.000000
GameData......07"]["armour_type"] = monster_high.lua

GameData......08"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 10.000000
GameData......08"]["armour_type"] = commander.lua

GameData......09"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 35.000000
GameData......09"]["armour_type"] = vehicle_low.lua

GameData......10"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 35.000000
GameData......10"]["armour_type"] = vehicle_med.lua

GameData......11"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 30.000000
GameData......11"]["armour_type"] = vehicle_high.lua

GameData......12"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 25.000000
GameData......12"]["armour_type"] = building_low.lua

GameData......13"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 25.000000
GameData......13"]["armour_type"] = building_med.lua

GameData......14"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 25.000000
GameData......14"]["armour_type"] = building_high.lua

GameData......["max_damage"] = 1000.000000
GameData......["min_damage"] = 500.000000
GameData......["min_damage_value"] = 25.000000
GameData......["morale_damage"] = 2.000000

GameData["attack_priorities"] = Reference([[tables\type_armour_table.lua
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_01"] = armour.lua
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_01"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_02"] = armour.lua
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_02"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_03"] = armour.lua
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_03"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_04"] = armour.lua
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_04"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_05"] = armour.lua
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_05"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_06"] = armour.lua
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_06"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_07"] = armour.lua
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_07"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_08"] = armour.lua
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_08"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_09"] = armour.lua
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_09"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_10"] = armour.lua
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_10"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_11"] = armour.lua
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_11"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"

GameData["max_range"] = 40.000000
GameData["min_range"] = 8.000000
GameData["reload_time"] = 4.000000

Missile Pods Stats

GameData["accuracy"] = 0.700000
GameData["accuracy_reduction_when_moving"] = 0.600000

GameData["area_effect"]["throw_data"]["direction_angle_random"] = 5.000000
GameData["area_effect"]["throw_data"]["force_max"] = 25.000000
GameData["area_effect"]["throw_data"]["force_min"] = 5.000000
GameData["area_effect"]["throw_data"]["impact_point_x"] = 0.000000
GameData["area_effect"]["throw_data"]["impact_point_z"] = 0.000000
GameData["area_effect"]["throw_data"]["up_angle_max"] = 25.000000
GameData["area_effect"]["throw_data"]["up_angle_min"] = 10.000000

GameData......["armour_piercing"] = 0.000000

GameData......01"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 5.000000
GameData......01"]["armour_type"] = infantry_low.lua]])

GameData......02"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 5.000000
GameData......02"]["armour_type"] = infantry_med.lua]])

GameData......03"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 5.000000
GameData......03"]["armour_type"] = infantry_high.lua]])

GameData......04"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 5.000000
GameData......04"]["armour_type"] = infantry_heavy_med.lua]])

GameData......05"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 5.000000
GameData......05"]["armour_type"] = infantry_heavy_high.lua]])

GameData......06"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 5.000000
GameData......06"]["armour_type"] = monster_med.lua]])

GameData......07"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 12.000000
GameData......07"]["armour_type"] = monster_high.lua]])

GameData......08"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 5.000000
GameData......08"]["armour_type"] = commander.lua]])

GameData......09"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 45.000000
GameData......09"]["armour_type"] = vehicle_low.lua]])

GameData......10"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 35.000000
GameData......10"]["armour_type"] = vehicle_med.lua]])

GameData......11"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 25.000000
GameData......11"]["armour_type"] = vehicle_high.lua]])

GameData......12"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 15.000000
GameData......12"]["armour_type"] = building_low.lua]])

GameData......13"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 15.000000
GameData......13"]["armour_type"] = building_med.lua]])

GameData......14"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 15.000000
GameData......14"]["armour_type"] = building_high.lua]])

GameData......["damage_reduction_when_moving"] = 0.000000
GameData......["max_damage"] = 870.000000
GameData......["min_damage"] = 675.000000
GameData......["min_damage_value"] = 25.000000
GameData......["morale_damage"] = 2.000000

GameData["attack_priorities"] = Reference([[tables\type_armour_table.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_01"] = armour.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_01"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_02"] = armour.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_02"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_03"] = armour.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_03"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_04"] = armour.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_04"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_05"] = armour.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_05"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_06"] = armour.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_06"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_07"] = armour.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_07"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_08"] = armour.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_08"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_09"] = armour.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_09"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_10"] = armour.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_10"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_11"] = armour.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_11"]["screen_name_id"] = "$90100"


GameData["max_range"] = 30.000000
GameData["min_range"] = 0.000000
GameData["reload_time"] = 4.000000

Basically what this means is that the Missile pods do 135.1875 base damage per broadside unit (40% less if its on the move), and the Railguns do 195 base damage per broadside unit. (So times 3 if all three squad members are alive and attacking the same target). The railguns have better range over the rockets (railguns 40, rockets 30), but the rockets have infantry disruption. So far I would say the two weapons are relatively even. (Note that neither of them has any target priorities set.) But here is where it gets a bit more complicated. Armor Types.

(All following dps numbers are per unit, not per squad)

Missile Pod DPS

Missiles:
Against all infantry types (and commanders), the missiles only do 5% (6.759375 dps) so obviously the disruption is the main effect here.

Against Avatars and BTs (and any other "Monster_High" that I'm forgetting the do 12% (16.2225 dps)

Against all buildings, we do 15% (20.278125 dps)

Against Vehicles we have some higher numbers:
low: 45% (60.834375 dps)
med: 35% (47.315625 dps)
high: 25% (33.796875 dps)

Railguns DPS

Railguns:
Against infantry low, railguns do 0% (0 dps) luckily there are very few if any of these units =) (im pretty sure there are zero actually).

Against infantry_high and _med they do 40% (78 dps). Units that fall here are bad dok, shoota boy, stormboy, tankbusta, slugga boy, banshee, dark reaper, rangers, guardian, cultists and scouts. (I havnt looked up the new Necron and Tau units Armor Types yet, sorry.)

Against infantry_heavy_med we do 30% (58.5 dps), troops include nob, nob leader, stormboy nob leader, warlock, warlock seer, warp spider, marine tactical, assault marine, marine sergeant, and raptors. (if anyone wants to give me a list of armor types for tau and necron units, i'll be happy to edit this to include them.)

Against infantry_heavy_high we get 20% (39 dps), troops: terminator, assault terminator, grav platform, grav platform brightlance, obliterator, etc...

Against Commanders, horrors, & possessed space marines (monster_med & commanders) we do 10% (19.5 dps).

Against Avatars and BTs (and any other "Monster_High" that I'm forgetting the do 5% (9.75 dps).

Against all buildings, we do 25% (48.75 dps)

We are evenly effective against pretty much all vehicles (except the Squiggy, and LR):
low & med: 35% (68.25 dps) - chaos rhino, land speeder, rhino, vyper, falcon, wartrak, trukk, chaos defiler, chaos predator, dreadnought, hellfire dreadnought, predator, whirlwind, fire prism, wraithlord, killa kan, looted tank

high: 30% (58.5 dps) - land raider, squiggoth

From these numbers I feel we can ascertain a seemingly obvious (to me) role for the Broadside Team: Right in the middle of any offensive push, defensive respite, or anywhere else you can get to their infantry and vehicles. Obviously you want them entrenched whenever possible, the railguns just plain do more damage all the way around. I also think its fairly obvious that the rockets are only there to help them push back some rushing infantry while you prepare to entrench and are not a logical primary attack option for them. IMHO I would use the broadsides primarily as an offensive attacker to aid in any and every battle i could get them to, secondarily I would set them up with devilfish to drop into a base (away from turrets preferably). Only as a tertiary role would I relegate such a strong unit to a purely defensive role sitting at my base as in that case they truely would only be good at draining your squad cap.

I'll leave you to decide if you want to use them, this is just how to use them. =)

[ir0nside]

I saw that in another post, and think it's great. I really wish we had all the DPS values, as I plan on adding them in the guide for each unit when they are.

[Azulsky]

Hey ironside, it says that all your replays are unavailable, i really want to see them as i am performing miserably as Tau in 1v1 automatch, and i know they have potential.

I would say the biggest problem that the Tau have now is the weakness of any AV in the Tier1 or even beginning tier 2. The solution is in the Broadsides, yes they are broken. They need to let us aim them, and while i respect the fluff, i think a concession needs to be made.

I would remove the "effective against all units", and make the broadsides "effective vs vehicles" and make it have vehicle armor. They need to make the XV8 suits have the vehicle armor as well. I cant stand the fact that a SM player is using Tier1 snipers and is killing my battle suits. Yes i agree that they should take infantry cap, but surely reason would argue that they need to have vehicle armor. It takes forever to get the vehicle beacon built and stingrays arent cutting it.

I need to get a replay up of my attempt of fighting out of an IG turret trap on the Fear Map, in which they trapped me in my side with their turrets and took the crit points to win. 1 broadside died as it tried to deploy, and 1 died as it fired it first shot, and the 2nd was a few seconds behind. How do replays go up

The biggest problem i have is that i have to split my economy between 2 barracks, and i cant put out a decent force in time to counter anything

[ir0nside]

Gah, crap. They were on a temporary host site, I just need a more permanent file host for them.

In any case, read my recent replies to Compeador just a page back in this thread - he comments on the fallacy of dual-barracks, and I too have had the same conclusions in recent matches, after changing my approach to Firewarriors. You really only need one or the other.

I'll try to get the replays hosted.

[Azulsky]

Okay i tried out going with 1 barracks, i did a quick Automatch and the guy lagged out but i got my tier 1 build order up, i wanted to ask if someone would review it.

This was me against Imperial Guard
http://www.box.net/public/bti8hl80on
I found it interesting how quickly i was able to take out their command squad

[ir0nside]

Alright, there are a number of problems with your gameplay in that replay.

First, you need to get a builder out first, to help with your Barracks. It's a small map, so you need that Commander out first, and as fast as possible (thus two builders on barracks). The reason you want the Commander out first, is because he can singlehandedly break all three entire Guardsmen squads with his flamer with a bit of micro, rendering the IG's entire infantry force ineffective. He can run them off points, pick them off, and so forth. He's defenitely the most valuable early invesment against here.

Second, you used your Firewarriors to cap a point, instead of attacking, and then waited for a second FW squad after your Commander before attacking - this is a no-no. You should be out there tearing apart his Guardsmen immediately. If you'll note, he took almost complete map control outside of your base by the time you attacked, including getting an LP done on that Relic before you were done with that battle. Tau have a hard time killing IG buildings early on, and he could have upgraded that to an LP2 and given you a real hard time.

Third, you used your Stealthsuit to decap the Relic right in front of an entire Guardsman squad. Your Stealthsuits de-cloak while decapping, thus this wasted one of your important early capper units, which later on become valuable anti-vehicle units when upgraded. Don't lose them.

Fourth, no jetpacks. You need Builder > Stealth > Stealth > Jetpacks in the HQ right away when the match starts, not after your starting builder has begun both buildings. Jetpacks let your Stealths jump around, decap points, spot for your FWs and get out of dodge when the enemy detects them, and more. Not only that, but it enables your TC to jump around, too, which is not optional - but mandatory.

Just practice a bit more, and you'll iron these issues out in no time.

[Azulsky]

Ok so i was right in getting 2 Stealth Suits for capping

Ok so build commander + Flamethrower and get him

Hotkey the barrack, set it on Commmander

I dont know if you noticed but at 2 points i was building nothing and waiting for req to build, i had 4 points, how do you balance how many LP's you build and how many FW squads.

Let me try it again, ill post

That Box.net site gives you 1GB free file storage, try it out

[ir0nside]

You should rally your barracks right to the doorstep of their base, and your Commander will rush right over, which is exactly what you want. Just make sure you're paying attention. I always observe my barracks for a moment as my Commander is finishing, and when he pops out, rally the barracks to him instead. Have one FW squad que'ed up before he finishes.. and que another one up not too long after that.

But yes - attack with Commander, use his flamer to keep multiple squads broken, and they will be futile against him.

[NeoHunter]

By the way, does the Greater Knarloc actually regenerate hitpoints? There was once I built one and after a battle, I checked to see if he was regenerating. After a while, his hitpoints didn't seem to increase.

[Azulsky]

I dont think so, at least it didnt when i used it in the campaign

I got me vs another Tau, and thats a whole nother strat
specially when i get to his base and he has a carny squad sitting there, i knocked out their morale with the TC but it was fallen city and its hard as heck to dance when u have 1 direction to do it in.

Ill try and do some more tommorow, need my sleeps

[Sandanjuu]

Ok.. I got a replay for you serious Tau guys out there to watch:

Tau&Nec vs Nec&Nec.

http://www.darkfalls.net/replay/inte...g_whattodo.rec

Essentially, they dual lord rush me, cripple my economy, then flayed mass rush. The rest is down hill from there.
My friend and I both suffered from an odd bug, however- we had extremely difficulty getting our troops to fire on the enemy scarabs. If you watch in the necron base we assault, our troops keep shooting the monolith instead of repeated attempts to shoot the scarabs repairing it.. ohwell.

I'm curious what your guys' thoughts are, particularly because, from at least my viewpoint there was really nothing I could do to stop it. They were very good with solar flare/deepstriking flayd to completely cripple my firewarriors, too.

Edit:

LOL Man, my friend and I are having a great night:

Tau&Nec vs Ork&Ork

I'm either the worst kroot player in the world, Orks are just plain stronger, having both ranged/melee is just plain better, or all of the above. It killed me that they TECHED while reinforcing all those squads.

[Demostruction-K]

mm. its not because of you. Kroots = good melee, Orcs = superior at melee. noticed that myself when did 1on1 skirmish and randomed orcs. Earlier games i noticed that kroots would pown everything on theyr way (but seems i havent played with orcs). Then next time i played i used TC and FW build an you guys should have seen their green faces when they were howling and falling in battle. it was bloodbath. they are so slow and are half dead when they get to half way to my FW's and start falling back desperately. FW are bread n butter for Tau.

For the greater good!

[maldridge5783]

For a thread this long, it has been surprisingly on topic, virtually free of ranting and full of good advice. I consider this a minor miracle.

@Sandanjuu I can't watch your replay here at work, but 2v2's are a whole other animal from 1v1 Auto. A lot of it can depend on the map you're playing. I think the hardest maps for Tau (and maybe any race) to play against Necron are large, resource sparse maps like the new Van De Mar Mountains (or some name close to that) while you will do better on small maps (like Tiboraxx) or large maps with lots of resources (I forget the name, but its the first alphabetical 2v2 map.) In addition, I've had a lot of trouble playing on a team with Necron as Tau. There are some pacing problems between the two. They just are not ready to do things at the same time. To be honest, I'm not sure what makes the best partnership with Necron, but with Tau, most of the other races are good, though my current favorite is Chaos. They seem to fill in the gaps Tau is missing (namely, durability.)

I've been working on a modified Kroot/Vespid build. There was something that rubbed me wrong about making the Vespids so early. Even though they can cripple the other player's early game economy, they are extremely fragile and cost boatloads. They end up crippling your economy as well. So, instead of building them as a building rusher, I've started building them like the Kroot's hero unit.

Builder > Kroot Nest
Queue Builder > Assist Kroot Nest
Queue Stealth Suit > cap points
Queue Stealth Suit > cap points
Builders > Queue Power Generator

At this point, I try to build 2 Kroot squads and 2 LPs before I set the Vespids to overwatch. I usually have around ~100 Rec at this point. Also, I don't immediately advance the first kroot squad into the enemy base. Kroot build relatively fast, and I see more advantage to waiting for the second squad to catch up so I have 8 Kroot and 2 squads to tie things up instead of sending in 1 squad and, more than likely, being forced to reinforce that unit. Ideally, I won't reinforce the Kroot squads until the Vespid hit the scene. It depends on the situation whether or not I have that luxury. After the Vespid pop, I set my Kroot Nest to overwatch Carnivores (I'll pause the overwatch after 1 squad pops), but once the vespid are spawn, I liberally reinforce the two Kroot squads.

After the third Kroot pop, I go Path to Enlightenment -> Feral Leap -> Vehicle Beacon -> Skyhammer -> Missile Barrage as soon as I can. There are also additional power generators in there somewhere; usually a second after Feral leap and a third after the beacon.

Also, it's worth mentioning that a lot of the success with the Kroot build lives and dies with being able to Cannabalize. If I am not able to do it, it makes winning a LOT tougher.

It's also worth noting that, since the Vespid will have 2 squads of Kroot with them on the scene, they can be more effective in combat. I usually use the shred ability early to start the cooldown ASAP, and then either finish off the building or move to tie up a weak, ranged unit to keep my guys alive. The more I can do to ensure I get to Cannabalize and to keep from reinforcing, the better off I'll be.

I've messed with adding Shapers to the build before I move on to the Vehicle Beacon, but that hasn't really been worth the resources. They're a bit too expensive for what they do.

[ir0nside]

Quick Update: Replays in the Racial Strategies section are now hosted and working properly!