[DC 1.51][1vs1 test game][What's up with Orky Fort?]

[Chris]

Got Orky Fort (7000hp) and smashed it with 2 SM dreadnaughts, took roughly 90 seconds. Got a Chaos HQ (7500hp) and smashed it with 2 SM dreadnaughts, took roughly 50 seconds.

Now the test wasn't 100% failproof as dreadnaughts do use a twin fist spin attack from time to time but you must admit the Ork HQ taking 40 seconds longer to destroy with LESS hp is very odd indeed.

^

Reason we waited until tier 3 to destroy the Chaos HQ was because I couldn't remember if it gained any extra HP or not... kinda weird how many things in this game I take for granted and realise are wrong because of a fuzzy memory.

[farseer_derek]

strange... aern't ork buildings meant to have low armour rating?

[FalseMyrmidon]

All races' HQs have building high I believe.

[BlackenedSky]

I have a vague memory of this coming up before in WA. IIRC, it was Servant talking about it, maybe on DoWSanc. I think the orky HQ got some kind of non-building armour in WA at least. Not sure what type, though.

If you really wanted to try and figure it out, you might wanna redo the test with a ranged unit that does constant DPS (a pred or something like that), instead of the SM dred's random / special attacks, and then you could divide the HP of the ork HQ by how long it takes the ork HQ to die to get a rough idea of DPS being done to the HQ and then try matching this DPS figure against various armour types in slow's list of DPS for whatevertype of armour it seems clostest to...

*whew*

Hope this helps anyway.

[Ragnarok]

Could it possibly be because the Orky Fort regenerates health rather quickly?

[Kronickle]

I remember it had Landraider vehicle_high armour or something? Someone try a CoMS/Assassin on it and see what happens..

[SvK]

GameData["type_ext"]["type_armour_2"] = Reference([[type_armour\tp_armour.lua]])

GameData["modifiers"]["modifier_04"] = Reference([[modifiers\enable_armour_2.lua]])
GameData["modifiers"]["modifier_04"]["application_type"] = Reference([[type_modifierapplicationtype\tp_mod_apply_to_entity.lua]])
GameData["modifiers"]["modifier_04"]["exclusive"] = false
GameData["modifiers"]["modifier_04"]["modifier_class_name"] = Reference([[type_modifier\tp_modifier.lua]])
GameData["modifiers"]["modifier_04"]["probability_of_applying"] = 1.000000
GameData["modifiers"]["modifier_04"]["target_type_name"] = "ork_nob"
GameData["modifiers"]["modifier_04"]["usage_type"] = Reference([[type_modifierusagetype\tp_mod_usage_enable.lua]])
GameData["modifiers"]["modifier_04"]["value"] = 1.000000

Here we see the ork_hq has a second armour type, and the ork_hq_addon has a modifier that enables the second armour type, but the target_type_name is ork_nob, not ork_hq. I think that's a misprint, and the modifier type should be tp_mod_apply_to_entity_type.lua, not tp_mod_apply_to_entity.

The Ork HQ does change armour type when upgraded to Orky Fort, but it is upgraded to an unknown armour type. It's not any of the infantry, heavy infantry, vehicle, building, or commander armour classes. It's not even the second armour type mentioned in ork_hq.lua. What gives?

Usually, weapon damage is modified by an armour type with a line like this in the weapon's definition:

GameData["area_effect"]["weapon_damage"]["armour_damage"]["armour_piercing_types"]["entry_01"]["armour_piercing_value"] = 42.588001
GameData["area_effect"]["weapon_damage"]["armour_damage"]["armour_piercing_types"]["entry_01"]["armour_type"] = Reference([[type_armour\tp_infantry_low.lua]])

Each weapon file has lines like this for each of the 14 armour types. There is another penetration value (a "default" value, sort of) that will be used for any armour type that is not mentioned in the the armour_piercing_types table.

GameData["area_effect"]["weapon_damage"]["armour_damage"]["armour_piercing"] = 5.000000

All weapons are using this value to determine how much damage they do to the Orky Fort. This number is usually very low, so the Orky Fort is very resistant to damage.

I changed the modifier type to tp_mod_apply_to_entity_type.lua, and the Orky Fort kept its proper tp_building_high armour type, and Nobs' armour type changed from tp_infantry_heavy_med to tp_infantry_heavy_high.

[4Servant]

I already said that damm orky fort was broken in WA 1.5 finaly people start to god damm wake up.

[KingLouis]

I guess people didn't notice the Orky Fort since hardly anyone ever got to T3 as orks back in WA.

[SvK]

The misprint in the Addon file is preventing Orks from from automatically upgrading their Nobs' armour to tp_infantry_heavy_high when they reach Tier 3.

[Compeador]

Erm, the second armor upgrade upgrades nobs to infantry_heavy_high iirc. THe orky Fort just gets a neato armor type.

[SvK]

The Eavy Armour upgrades don't change the Nobs' armour type. They only have health_maximum_modifiers. It seems to me like Nobs were supposed to be upgraded to tp_infantry_heavy_high for free when an Ork reached Tier 3, but instead the Orky Fort's armour got changed to something weird.

[dreddnott]

I'd bet most Orky players would rather have tougher Nobz than an insanely durable HQ building...even with them capped at 2 squads like they are now.

[Hirmetrium]

THe tech preist was imba because of the same bug. he was insanely tough because he had the armour type tp_armour outlined about. this was fixed however.

[dreddnott]

He's still quite tough. He can outmelee and defeat a squad of XV-15s easily.