[WA 1.51]Dark Reapers - overpriced/underpowered?

[WelshGandalf]

Hi,

I'm an avid eldar player, back in the days I would normally choose Dark Reapers over Banshees as my first aspect warrior of choice. However now I almost never bother researching the reaper aspect stone, because

a) They don't scale into tier 2 at all well (compared to Banshees and their awesome CoW - fastest unit in the game!)
b) Their initial cost is higher - 210 for 3 guys comapred to 200 for 4 banshees I believe
c) The reinforce cost is similar - 70 req for one guy?? Possibly the most expensive single troop in tier 1?
d) OK they do decent damage if they can get set up and all, but for the cost and poor scalability, is it worth it? I don't think so.

I don't think any changes have been made to Reapers in DC so this applies to that too.

Any thoughts??

[Haisho]

Uhh Dark Reapers have been changed in DC. They're better scaled into T2 with a +40% damage boost from Optics now. I don't remember the cost, but I think they're now 200 req. About the same as a starting squad of Banshees. They don't really shine without an Exarch though....

They still get phased out by Warp Spiders at T3, although I wouldn't delete them just yet. Not to mention that if you're good with micro, Dark Reapers are excellent. But then again, you need to be good at micro in general to even get a good Eldar game going nowadays....

[Pietia]

Hi

I've been playing Eldar from the very beginning of DoW and never bodered to even research dark reaper's stone.
Imho they're useless except one situation.
I use'em to help destroying orc buildings.
In any other case I always produce banshees.

[Katonryu]

Dark Reapers are brilliant vs any cc unit because FoF enables them to keep their distance and shoot. They also don't have to set up any more, as soon as they stop moving they are able to shoot. They are good against shooters as well, but may get beaten down by Tau firewarriors or large tactical squads. However, they are best combined with rangers, who will break enemies morale and make their attacks much less powerful against the Reapers (who have fairly decent armour and health).

[WelshGandalf]

Oh they sound like good changes Using FoF to fire and run away didn't really work due to set-up time, but since you say there is no set-up time anymore...

[Deaths Abyss]

[WA 1.51]Dark Reapers - overpriced/underpowered?

There is a subforum for WA balance.

[jnettl2]

Dark Reapers scare me neither as tau or ork. Their set up time cancels out any mobility advantage they have and they die easy. They don't do enough damage to shoot down any melee unit before it gets to them like Nec and Tau can. I never see very many reapers either, maybe they are too expensive?

[phantom4104]

Its a matter of right tool for the job. Against certain forces they are a must, or at least much better than Shees until CoW. Sometimes the Shees are a better choice.

They certainly have their place in DC, its just knowing where.

[Troubleshooter]

There is a subforum for WA balance.

But this forum is the better place to get feedback from others before/in addition to posting in the balance forum.

Just my opionion... but I tend to think of the balance forum as a place for a refined thread based on lots of research, some of which has to take place in the other forums first.

[Slow_Runner]

The division between strategy and balance is there for a reason. The reason being to not fill strategy with OP! Imba! chatter and instead concentrate on improving one's game.

That being the case and the thread title clearly indicating an emphasis towards balance, I'll be whisking this away to WA balance.

[MoschBoy]

I've been playing Eldar from the very beginning of DoW and never bodered to even research dark reaper's stone.
Imho they're useless except one situation.

sounds like you havent played much DoW at all. DR= heavy infantry pwnage.

[Katonryu]

Dark Reapers have no set up time in DC, however they are still unable to fire on the move. In WA the set up time was actually fairly negligable as it was so short a time. you just needed to place reapers at the correct distance using hit and run tactics effectively. A always research the reaper stone, every game. Banshees are a point and click unit, reapers are a point, click, click, point, cick, click, point, click, click etc unit. They require more attention and need to be mobile. This topic kind of reminds me of SM players saying the rhino is useless. No. If anything I'd say the only thing reapers need is a small range increase, as they are generally unable to hit and run effectively against Tau because they have better range on their basic weaponry. Against every other force they are great.

[tweekerninjoo]

I don't get the whole hit and run tactic with reapers. It used to work but now they don't do enough damage. They don't kill any CC units before they get into CC. They don't really seem to kill anything! if I do hit and run, I don't kill enough troops to justify the effort, then half the time I get chased by speedy jump troops, quick reinforcing sluggas, or ranged troops that will win hands down in CC.

their main thing that really seems to botch this tactic is when I'm running the reaps away enemy heros and CC will just push me back into my territory and then take quick breakes from chasing me to take down gens and LPs.

Plus their moral breaks so fast now! eldar seems to suffer from morale the most of any race now since most other armies (all of them?) have morale Immunity abillities in later tiers.

[Katonryu]

Who said you have to retreat to your base? You can run anywhere on the map. If it calls for it run into their base instead (not reccommended VS Orks), or run to an upgraded listening post, turret, or a crater full of rangers. To get away from speedy troops, use fleet of foot. Sure Jump packs can get from A-C faster than you, but they completely ignore B when doing so and they can't change their course once airborne. You can easily avoid troops like that. Also make sure you are using more than one squad, otherwise you won't kill them faster than they reinforce with this tactic. Heres one final little clue to help you. Enhanced Optics + Reaper Launchers = 140% dmg.

[WelshGandalf]

I did wonder where to post this under - I went for strategy as I was fishing for situations when they were useful - plus posting in the WA balance forum seems a bit pointless since nothing is going to be done about WA balance now anyway - any patches to be released will be for DA. I wasn't really claiming OP or IMBA!!!!, see the "any thoughts???" at the end of my first post. I probably wouldn't have gotten the posts about the diferences in DA if it had gone straight into the WA balance forum.