[DC] Pathfinder Stratagema?

[Exequy]

Even as an avid tau player, I've hesitated to use pathfinders in my games. I've found their low health to be somewhat of an... annoyance. Meaning my pathfinder teams are literally slaughtered before I can use their markerlight ability. whoop-pee-freakin'-doo. That an the fact I'd rather use their 2 infantry cap... elsewhere. For another firewarrior squad.

But I'm not proud enough to consider them a dead unit simply because i'm not good enough to use them yet (i'm not THAT arrogant). After all, perhaps I've been employing them wrongly. so I'd like to ask your advice on the tactical deployment of pathfinder squads. How many of them should be used? And at what point in the game? As soon as they become available? (meaning right after the path of enlightenment is complete)? Or a bit later? What units do they best complement? Firewarriors only? or any ranged units, including vehicles?

Any thoughts would be good.

[Norbert]

What race are u playing against, and what are u using marker to support? It's mostly 4 use against slow moveing/short ranged units in combination with FW...:Pike:

[Chris]

When the POE is finished I get a squad of pathfinders and the firewarrior upgrade ASAP.

I keep the pathfinders right behind my FW. Not 5 feet back, not 10, I mean I make sure they're hugging the FW's as tightly as possible. I don't care about their suppressing fire, I could take it or leave it. Making sure that my FW are firing as closely as possible to their max range of 40 is more important in my opinion and if the pathfinders and hugging the FWs it should be possible. Since the pathfinders are slightly behind, or mixed in with the FW line it is extremely difficult to single them out with focus fire.

[FalseMyrmidon]

Make sure you put them on stand ground (not hold ground) and keep them in a second control group from your Fire Warriors that way when you tell the FWs to focus fire on something the Pathfinders won't run up and get slaughtered.

[TheDividedGod]

Man, i don't even use my pathfinders markerlight specifically as support for my FW......try marking an infantry target and then nailing it with feral leap carnivores.....the slaughter is fearful, and the fw quickly take down whatever pitiful remnants are left after the intial leaps.

[Kronickle]

They are a must have, 1 squad effectively adds 75% damage to your WHOLE ARMY when you micro it right. I also hug them to the back of my FW's as a separate control group and make them asap.

[HERO]

My ideal force would be TC with full upgrades, 2 stealth suits, 3 FW, 2 pathfinders, X amount of devilfish, and maybe a Broadside if needed.

2x Pathfinders on HOLD GROUND stance and good micro will render any army you come into contact with DoA.

[Skull_Explosion]

Well no has mentioned they are the tau's only detection that isnt omg wtf expensive. You need them vs say chaos. Without them you can kiss your ass goodbye to stealthed hvy blts army. Vespids detect but are insanely expesive. If your in t2 do you wana spend that 300/100 on a mech building or crappy ass vespids that will be dead inside 1 min?

[Haisho]

Like most, I hug em near my FWs if I do play Tau....if I do play Tau anyway. Their main purpose if I use them, is to grant a larger LoS so I can take advantage of the 40 range on upgraded Tau weapons.

To me, the slowing suppresion fire and Markerlight are just bonuses. Really nifty bonuses. :P
As for controlling them....Hold Ground stance is a Tau players' best friend :P

[Exequy]

After some heavy experimentation, I have a new respect for the Pathfinder teams.

Pathfinder team+Firewarriors=Dead IG Command Squad

What's the optimum number of pathfinders to be employed? 2 per 'army'? I find their markerlight range to be bit of annoyance, though...

[FooF]

My experience with Pathfinders has been the same as Chris's, that is, you have to disguise them in and among FWs or they're the first ones killed. They do look remarkably similar to FWs so against the average player, they won't even know.

Likewise, a second control group is mandatory. I used to simply put a Pathfinder team with my FWs and possibly TC in one honkin' ranged control group but quickly found out that the Pathfinders not only outpace their brethren but also have the shortest range, and hence, are at the front of the firing lines. X.X

Ever since I put Pathfinders in a second control group, you can Mark targets far easier and keep them from being massacred at the onset of most ranged battles.

FYI, I've noticed that the suppression effect caps at 3 Pathfinders per squad but multiple squads will stack their supression. I usually don't reinforce past 3 simply because Pathfinders are frickin' expensive. Also, anything past 3 Pathfinder squads is overkill, IMO. 1/3 of your Inf Cap should not go toward virtually non-combat units. Late game, I've been replacing FW sqauds with the Ethereal Elites and keeping Pathfinders nearby to maximize their range (which, as everyone knows, is omgwtfpwn) but I believe the range of these Elites are even beyond Pathfinder sight range so I sometimes venture forward with the Pathfinders from time to time to see if I can't nail a LP or building from extreme range.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Well no has mentioned they are the tau's only detection that isnt omg wtf expensive. You need them vs say chaos.

Pathfinders are more expensive than vespids... but they dont start with a full squad, so the squad is cheaper to buy.

[Exequy]

What is the exact quantitative effect that pathfinder supression fire has? Just curious what it does to the enemy.

What race are u playing against, and what are u using marker to support? It's mostly 4 use against slow moveing/short ranged units in combination with FW...

Also, I forgot to ask earlier. Does this mean pathfinders are a must against the Necrons?

[Stormbringer]

What is the exact quantitative effect that pathfinder supression fire has? Just curious what it does to the enemy

It slows down enemy units before they get close enough to insta-kill Pathfinders by breathing on them. Seriously, all it does is slow down enemy units.

Pathfinders are great for their stealth detection ability and Marker lights ... beyond that, though, their use is kind of limited (in my opinion). Against Orks, Space Marines or Chaos, for example, you're better off just keeping them tucked away inside a Devilfish until you need them for detection/ML, as they'll get stomped quickly. Close-combat jump squads eat them alive.

Supression fire is overrated most of the time because it has no affect against long-range enemies (Tau, IG, etc.), and against close-combat races, Pathfinders are one jump squad away from death if left out on the field too long. I always use Devilfish to ferry them around if I absolutely have to use them. They're just too fragile.

[Exequy]

Ah, so supression fire is anti-melee units. (except for jumpjet infantry) What effect would pathfinders have on Necrons, anyway? Make them even slower? XD

[Stormbringer]

Against Necrons, it's barely useful, as suppression fire has a limited range; Pathfinders die instantly if they get too close (not to mention the teleporting Necron Lord). Snare traps are much more effective against Necrons if you're using a lot of ranged units.

[VoydAngel]

I must admit that PF are waaay way way too fragile...
also however, IMHO PF ranges (Detect range, and both markerlight and standard rifle ranges) are too short. I feel that the markerlight range should be slightly extended, the detect range should be equal to their LOS and their guns range should be equal to FW. (they do almost no damage anyway so why not?)

anyway...back on topic:
yes PF are IMO necessary to a Tau force, I usually have 2 or 3 built (total) and I build them as soon as I can get them, and have the money (after the FW damage upgrade at the POE). I enjoy having 1 PF support 2 FWs and usually have 2 or 3 sets of this little combo running around the field. (just make sure they stay right in the mix with the FWs like chris said, cause if they seperate at all, they usually get slaughtered) I support them with devil fish, and, if the game takes long enough crisis suits as well. Most games dont tkae long enough to get out HH, and the TC is always the first thing built.

***A good mass to fend off nearly any infantry rush is 3 or 4 squads of FWs and 2 PFs.

[Macca]

I never use more than 1 squad as its also cap2 which I need for FWs. I keep them just behind the FWs to mark enemy commanders. Especially against the teleporting Necron lord its a must.
The detection job is usually left to the fast moving more survivable and fast replaceable vespid.While stealth suits serve betetr for extending the visual range for FWs

[re-con]

I always get at least one unit of PF after the FW upgrade. For some reason I have been having great success putting them in a Crtl group with TC. However, this is for 1v1. Although I think having them in a seperate crtl group is the most sound strategy. I agree with with the remark on making sure you set the stances to hold ground, otherwise they tend to become suicidal. They are also very effective in a crtl group with SS for AV. Markertarget works just as well against vehicles as it does against AI. PF have saved my bacon on a number of occassions during auto when I have the PF/SS combo take down the potential game breaking vehicle of an opponent. Also their detection ability is important, but it also depends on which race. Against Scout/Snipers, or Elf rangers they can be pretty weak and easily focus fired into extinction. I usually prefer to use vespids against those two combos.

[Soundwave]

i know this has probably been mentioned before but whatever. maybe increase their gun range SLIGHTLY so they dont need to be right in melee to hit their target, I would also love them to be able to be equipped with atleast 1 railgun rifle per squad, along with their detection range equalling their sight.

[FooF]

Their range really is subpar but it's pretty obvious that they're not meant to do damage. Keeping them on Hold Ground next to your Fire Warriors pretty much relegates them to anti-Melee duty (should a squad try to rush your FWs, the PFs supress them as they are incoming). I believe that truly is their battlefield role, outside of spotting. Any longer range and you start getting into the territory of imbalance. Melee units that get suppressed from FW range can't get into range under the hail of plasma fire and get mowed down without a prayer.

I do believe that Pathfinders should recieve the FW upgrades from the PtoE. Since they do no real damage, their range could be buffed so that they seperate themselves from the front lines while still support their FW brethren with spotting, suppression, and markerlights.