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Once again, I have not gotten my hands on DC yet due to being deployed, but I have played DOW/WA.... for those who have played, what is the best "Walker" unit in DC and how do you employ them?
I know in WA my favorite was the Wraithlord. since he owned in both CC and, fully-upgraded, in ranged combat as well. I guess the only new "walker" types in DC are Tau Battlesuits, even thought he count as inf pop, but they seem to fill the same role as super heavy, bipedal assault troops.
The Tomb Spyder is a very useful unit. Not only is it tough, but It can harvest dead bodies to spawn squads of necrons, and spawn squads of weak scarabs (at the cost of some health)
#3
Dreadnaughts are still the greatest, if you think otherwise, tell the wraithlord to talk to him.
#4
I think for straight up combat the dreadnaught is still the daddy of walker-dueling. The tomb spyder comes a very close second though, what it lacks in hitpoints it more than makes up for in damage. The DPS that thing puts out in melee is utterly terrifying.
agreed with Chris; and I mean terrifying as in literally; it'll break a FW squad in two hits =P
I think that would be the Krootox. Hmm... i guess it counts as walker somehow ^^
By walker, they mean a mechanical unit that 'walks', hence Dreadnought, Wraithlord, Sentinel, Defiler, Crisis(?), Broadside(?) and Killa Kan are classed as walkers.
Krootox are more of a kroot-controlled beast with a close-range heavy gun stuck on top that is good in melee and has uber-HP. Not really a walker, more of a unit that uses vehicle cap.
Sentinels could probably be seen as best for hit-and-run in a walker duel (dreadnought charges, sentinel flees and fires etc.) but on it's own, I'd say Dreadnoughts are the most versatile. I have half my dreads with the assault cannon, half with Lascannon.
the Crisis and Broadsides are considered something closer to Termies than Dreadnaughts, I believe
I thought Killa Kans were better than Dreadnoughts?
termies are in technical terms called mobile dreadnought armour
i think the dreadnought is the best
I see this as a really interesting question actually, because to answer it you have to look at not just a unit's stats and it's tech level, but also and more ambiguously, how it works. Does that make any sense?
Um, like the Killa Kan. I couldn't tell you how good it is in DC, but I will say regardless of its stats, it's just never a problem. It doesn't seem to work very well. Is it the unit's AI? Its bounding box? Its animation? I don't know, but send a Killa Kan in to melee attack a grouping of infantry and it'll just flail its arms around, then stand confused, flail a bit more, and finally crumple.
All units have their quirks in how well they actually work in-game, but imo, out of the walkers, you can't get better than an SM Dreadnought. You can always rely on it to do its job without quirkiness.
Tomb Spyder is insanely easy to kill, which is why I don't like them much. The harvest takes a while and it's usually on the battlefield, i.e., where lots of baddies are. Scarabs I think are a waste.
Each walker has a slightly different use, but if you're looking for AV, AI disruption and kill animations, ability to break lines, AB, then it's easily the Dread. Next probably is Killa with Wraith and Defiler and Tomb about equal. Sentinel is just AV/AB and it does that pretty well.
make "tactical dreadnought armour" and it is right.termies are in technical terms called mobile dreadnought armour
dreads are the best... best walker in melee, relatively fast, can be dropped in tier 3 - what else do u want?
cool voices
"ere, wot button makes dis fing go?"
"stomp! Stomp! STOMP! stomp u all!!"
On topic, the Kan is a great line breaker. You can send one in first with nobz running behind. Its a great base basher to cos it takes so much heat.
Yeah, but you see, that is the point. Crisis are infantry and Broadsides too i belive (i refuse to use units i cant target so i am not that sure). Krootox uses vehicle cap, so technically, even if not mechanical, it is the Tau walker. And a damm fine one i have to say. Perhaps a little late (tech up, path to enlightment, krayon command, research), but really powerful. Dreads come earlier (upgrade HQ, machine cult, vehicle cap research) and can be deepstriked, so that makes them more useful i guess. But for style i would also agree Killa-can. Its a powerful infighter and can take a hell of a beating but its slow and thats not really good for an infighter. They make pretty good guards for ranged troops and are great structure cleaners however, futuristic battering ram.
Personally i like the Killa Kan because it has heavy vehicle armor armor and is a monster in CC, the only thing is its low health and speed
Who would win in a 1v1 fight, Killa Kan or Tomb Spyder? anyone know?
LoL, Tombspiders definetly not.
Krootox because it is totally imba.
I've never tested walkers against eachother. But, I tend to get the best results out of my Dreadnoughts. Although those Tombspiders are definetely killers.
Killakan vs tomb spyder
That would depend on upgrades and wether the spyder creates a scarab swarm.
Considering all the spyders
other powers I would be suprised if it could beat the kan but you never know.
As for the Kan, in reality I think its sad we only have kans, sure I like the kans but I would love to see a real ork dreadnought in all its glory... or better yet the rumored ork stompa.
in a straight 1v1 CC fight, the Kan beats out the Spyder hands down as it does more dmg to vehicle_med than the Spyder does to vehicle_high, but that's to be expected considering the Kan's 4 pop, though if the Spyder spawns Scarabs and upgrades to the particle gun, it can wear the Kan down just because the Kan can't kill Scarab swarms fast enough to keep up with their reinforce and they deal really good AV dmg
Edit: forgot that the Kan's vehicle_high, the swarm/particle gun combo would take forever to kill the Kan, but it would in the end assuming you really wanna invest a ton of energy in overwatching the swarm =P
i'm no fluff expert, but i think those walkers are already ork dreadnoughts. Quite some time ago someone brought up a similar argument, in which he stated that orky killakans are usually smaller than the one shown ingame (and come in squads of 3, but thats TT). It was therefore estimated that relic just didn't give it an appropiate name, because it would sound too simillar to the SM equivalent.As for the Kan, in reality I think its sad we only have kans, sure I like the kans but I would love to see a real ork dreadnought in all its glory... or better yet the rumored ork stompa.
As for the usefullness of dreadnoughts in general, i'd say the SM variant ist as good as you can get, esp. with DS. Followed by our lovely killaKan and maybe th Eldare walker.
#23
Killa Kanz in DOW are actually ork dreadnoughts, relic just liked the name Killa Kanz better, re interviews back in the day.
Remember: you're a blogger. Pretense is your co-pilot.
Close between Dreadnoughts and Tomb Spyders.
Dreadnoughts because they're pretty much one of the best walkers. Customizable to certain situations too.
Tomb Spyders because they dish out good melee DPS, and are generally the swiss army knives for the Necrons.
I'll be damned if I have to waste time trying to build a 3rd Necron Warrior squad from a Monolith I can harvest 3 dead necrons and have the ability to deploy a fresh squad at a point of my liking. If it isn't the heavy melee DPS, it's definitely the fact that you negate warrior build times with TS.
Voices though, I'd have to say the Killa Kanz by a long shot. But we all know by now that Ork voiceovers are just plain quirky and entertaining in general :P
I don't think so. Okay its rather hard to gun it down. On the other hand its hard to gun down a walker in any case, except using missiles of course.Krootox because it is totally imba.
But Krootox has demon armor, not vehicle armor, meaning missiles will not be effective.
Normal weapons and especially lasers or plasma are VERY effective. So the only thing it can rely on is its huge chunk of HP.
Its just not your standart vehicle armor, thats all. A big lob of HP coupled with devastating atacks, but not too different from other walkers wich are a big lob of armor.
In fact 1vs1 against a melee dreadnought they seem fairly even (CC seems to work too if you can survive those attacks long enough).
For all round skills, id say a dread as well, mainly cause you can DS them.
Killa kans can be trouble though, if i see more than 2 i shit myself, lol.
Walkers have less of a roll in DC, because the retared squad pop for vehicles..
maybe a redefinition of the word: "Walker" is in order.
Walker: any unit taking vehicle cap and primarily uses melee for offense.
only unit I'd call a walker that doesn't perfectly fit the above description is the IG Sentinel.
Most walkers seem to be 'blocker' units...I'm not a Necron player, but the tomb spyder seems more like a support unit to me.
Well, most of the walkers they have are the melee type, but the sentinal and hellfire both lack melee (sure, the sentinal should *technically* get an attack... but that's one thing I doubt too many folks mind losing from TT sentinals... if I could "upgrade" it to a multi-laser... that I'd like even if its technically a downgrade) so I wouldn't worry about redefining the term. As for the krootox, they're definately the tau "walker" unit, just like the carnifex is the 'nid "walker" unit... some races get to play with monstrous creatures instead of creature-like vehicles ;>)
To me the *only* thing keeping the spyder from trumping the dreadnaught is the fact that it is a paper tiger... even allowing it to attach to the scarab swarms would make it absolutely insane (I'd pay the energy for distracting fire from the spyder and if anything wins the "best disposable tie-down unit" award, its them...) but as it is they crumple too easily if you send them forward and then can get stuck in place.
Between the DPS (both melee and also ranged AI... the PPC makes it quite nice for close-in fire support) and the fact that it is a floating necron factory (and while yes, the scarabs are easy to pop with fast-firing weapons, a 60-unit screen ahead of the warrior wall can cause some consternation and if there *isn't* a mess of HBs or the like around, good night...) its a serious contender though, but there are too many times where it will die that a dread will survive to be as useful in a fight.
Wraithlord can still hold his own in combat but I have started using on ranged stance more, if shooting with BL and flamers can pack out some dps without getting to dirty.
Kanz still rock though...
Oh shit, well if Krootox are walkers, they win so easily it's not even a contest. They are probably the most IMBA unit in the game period.
The IMBA factor sort of puts them off the list, that and while they're definately insane they're actually somewhat easy to counter individually... takes a group to really screw things up (since they kill infantry units about the slowest of the lot and while AV has a hard time with them, what works against them is what works against most everything else you'll be shooting at, plus things like the sniper, harlequin kiss, mind war, GKs all *really* cramp their style. Thus, *a* krootox isn't much more dangerous than *a* dreadnaught, its just that 6 of them are much more dangerous than 6 dreadnaughts).
Everyone hates on the krootox! I'm curious to see if/how they'll be treated with the upcoming patch, myself. Been on the receiving end of krootox spam before, yes, it is absurd, but so are other units *shrugs*
Uh, no they aren't. If you take their resources and counter with ANY other unit(s) from oposing races whether ranged or CC, Krootox will kill the shit out of them.The IMBA factor sort of puts them off the list, that and while they're definately insane they're actually somewhat easy to counter individually...
Yeah, if you have an army vs. 1 Krootox it's not as hard. But if it's equal resources then you've lost.
SM scouts with sniper rifles own Krootox. As does the FC, all other commanders, and i imagine Grey Knights as well.
A squad of SM all with Plasma would probly own 1 krootox as well.
First off, I would like to say that the Krootox alone in my opinion gives me more trouble with the Tau than the 'crons, and also, counters u use against them would be appreciated. In addition, I notice no one gives love to the Defiler. Is there a particular reason? And I think Chaos can handle dreads rather efficiently, by the way...
Spyders don't walk... they hover *grin*
Anyhow I think Dread is probably best in general...
Dready vs Krootox in current implimentation would go to the Krootox as the Dread does ~193 dps to monster_med vs the Krootox's ~146 dps to vehicle_med, but the Krootox has 8.9k fully buffed hp compared with the Dread's 4.7k. The Dread costs more power, can be DS'ed in tier 3, has no ranged attack, can be repaired. The Krootox moves faster naturally, cannot be repaired nor does it heal, has a very strong AI short ranged attack, and comes out in later tiers.
Edit: Giant Apes shouldn't take Dreadnaughts apart =P
Last edited by HarmlessPenguin; 15th Nov 06 at 4:37 PM.
#39
I totally forgot about the Krootox effectively being a walker. >.<
Dreadnoughts are actually 3 cap now.The Dread costs more power and takes up 2 cap . . .
189 DPS with 8900 health vs. 50(2 scouts) DPS and, whatever, 190 health each. I.e., about a dead Scout a second. I don't know morale break factors though.SM scouts with sniper rifles own Krootox.
126 DPS ranged with 8900 health vs. 32 DPS and 450ish(?) health. 14 seconds for the Krootox to kill 4 SM, in that time the SM would have done 5% of the Krootox' health. Not even counting guys dying along the way.A squad of SM all with Plasma would probly own 1 krootox as well.
Commanders aren't "counters" to spammable units. But even if they were, Krootox would beat the shit out of him because he has so much more health. Almost all walkers kill Commanders unless they are obscenely upgraded and even then it's close.As does the FC, all other commanders, and i imagine Grey Knights as well.
#42
Grey Knights are the only "hard" counter i can find so far, since the krootox actually has daemon armor.
oh, they're 3 cap now? I'll edit my post accordingly, must pay attention =P And Duke, Krootox aren't breakable morale wise...did you mean for the Scouts? though they die horribly anyway...
#44
Harelquin's Kiss is even better. 9000 HP gone in an instant.Originally Posted by n0bl3
In-Game: Dux
Steam Account: DucusSumus
hellfire dread. They are the most overall useful I think. I would say the dread is next. I would put the WL a little higher but the lance fire on the move is nerfed :/
Sentinels are as good as gold against vechciles but their fragile.
I've seen a Sentinel take down a Drednaught before it even got close enough to mele it.
Back to the Killakan...
The kan in Dow is a kan and not a dread, I would say they have upped the power of the kan to make it more on par with a SM dread but as the only visable thing that separates an ork kan from a dread is the size and number of CC arms.
A kan has 1 CC arm and a ranged weapon as oposed to 2 CC arms and 2 ranged weapons for a dread.
A picture of a killa kan from the tabletop game:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefr...084&orignav=10
And then a picture of an ork dreadnought:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefr...077&orignav=10
Sadly I could not at short notice find a picture in wich the two models stand side by side, the dreadnought model is in reality alot bigger than the kan.
Duke Rustfield your points are extremely vague, and worthless.
SM Scout, is 4 upgraded, and obviously thats what should be talked about, you can dam well afford it, in a match if were talking counter to a Tier 4 unit that is Krootox. 2 squads, with 8 sniper rifles, will take one down quite quickly, and unless there are pathfinders, or Vespid around, he ain't gonna see them at all.
Krootox + tau army (i.e. he just decided to get one for some silly reason) the krootox is tougher to deal with than dreadnaught + marine army, but it can still be dealt with moderately quickly. That's what I was talking about... 1v1 krootox is going to paste any non-uber outside of GKs or ATs (sick demon damage, stun) *including* the commanders (excluding the harliquin), infiltrate not taken into account. As part of a force though, its a good damage soak but *one* won't usually make or break the fight. Its when all of 'em show up that things just get unhappy and the firewarriors break for tea.
the Ork dreadnaught looks more like the DOW Kan from those pics.
It has the claw and the buzz saw and 2 mounted weapons, just like the DoW Kan.
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