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No. Motorcycles and Jeeps are not catagorized as "light vehicles" in the game data assets. "Light" denotes halftracks, AC's. "Medium" refers to every other tank, with the Tiger and Pershing exclusively the "Heavy".Quote:
Light Vehicles can no longer be blocked by Allied Barbed Wire and Sand Bags
Does this mean that the motorcycle and jeep can go through them?
#52
Well, as long as you're happy Knows, heck, them I'm happy.
It's cool, some of the bugs are being eliminated. I would expect those things to get done first before balancing.
I am dissapointed in shrek hit collision and one way sherman smoke not being in there though. As opposed to balance issues where we would like the game changed slightly to behave how we'd like, those are issues where we'd like the game fixed slightly so it behaves the way it was intended too.
Cheers on the other fixes tho. Although Relic is insane for touching the Croc. Even if there was a valid reason, when the only change you make that involves going into unit stats and tweaking them a bit is one that nobody asked for, it does sorta feel like you are yanking our chain. I know you aren't, but still.
Im pretty sure you said that in the 1.3 thread... That 1.4 was in the works for some time and that it would be more of a balance patch and that 1.3 would bring in the world builder ect... That thread is gone now and I cant find it...Originally Posted by Buggo
S.
That's like saying you should be happy being married to J.Lo, because people who married Britney Spears had it much worse. Comparing bad to worst doesn't prove much IMO.you should be very fortunate that Relic has relased this as quick as they did. Some game companies would have ignored the public and randomly released patches the presented 2 times the problems as before.
And as I recall, Relic consoled the angry internet mob in 1.3 promising that balance changes were already in works for patch 1.4.
#56
Ray is right. I remember this as well.
QFT.Although Relic is insane for touching the Croc. Even if there was a valid reason, when the only change you make that involves going into unit stats and tweaking them a bit is one that nobody asked for, it does sorta feel like you are yanking our chain. I know you aren't, but still.
Glad the patch came out. I thought it was suppose to be around christmas or after. keep up the great work, relic. I'm gonna fry some tier2 germans with my new and improve croc, haha!!!
The servers are currently down for 1.4 patching, however I cant seem to find the client side 1.4 posted anywhere. Does anyone know roughly how long the servers will be down for and second, does anyone know of a location to download 1.4?
Patch now available!!
I always though the croc needed some help, but really I figured it ought to come through changes to the sherman(by switching fuel costs if i had my way), because the sherman makes the croc redundant at a much better price.
I am appreciative of the patch, I am, but this is akin to a hotfix... not a patch, really...
Bah, the patching on CoH has been slow and not even close to what needs to be done.
I am with Fatal on this one.
#62
We're getting off topic, but the Croc is a fantastic buy. But Shermans do a good enough job vs infantry and at guns, so why bother buying it? I can't imagine the Croc killing infantry any faster...has anyone ever tried to micro away from the damn thing? Has anyone seen it kill AT guns in 1.5 seconds? I mean, come on now. Where in the eff did this freaking change come from?
EDIT: OOPS!! What I wrote here was totally wrong. The buff was just against units outside of cover, not in cover.
Last edited by FatalTheRabbit; 7th Dec 06 at 1:23 PM.
I think the announcement might have been better if it were along the lines...
"I know you guys wanted some of the serious bugs fixed asap so we have released patch 1.4 as soon as these were fixed and tested. Gameplay changes will follow once these have been completed and thoroughly playtested".
I know everyone wants fixes and changed asap, so perhaps releasing things as and when they are completed is better than releasing larger patches anyway.
I would rather have ranking games and bug fixes out earlier than gameplay changes, as long as these are imminent too.
#65
If someone could please quote the statement by Tranj, Buggo or any relic employee claiming that 1.4 was going to address tons of balance concerns, I'd appreciate it. The only statements about 1.4 I can recall seeing were that it would contain fixes to the things broken in 1.3. I don't remember any promises of sweeping balance changes, and right now it seems like you are attacking relic for delivering on promises that they never made.
But, I could be wrong. If you can find where they said it, I'll back down, but until then, everybody stop insinuating that 1.4 was supposed to be a big balance patch. My recollection is that 1.4 was rushed out to fix the problems with 1.3, along with some of the networking issues (which probably was behind the scenes anyway).
The last thing we need is baseless crap clogging up the legitimate complaint chute.
Thanks Buggo, appreciate your efforts.
#67
No, Starfisher, I remember that very clearly. It went something along the lines of well, 1.3 isn't going to be a big balance patch, that will come in the next patch. Then, 1.3 broke some stuff and we were told it would be fixed in 1.4. I believe it was in the thread about 1.3 that I can no longer find, but used to be stickied.
yay!!!
I'm 99% sure Mow said in the TSN interview that there were a number of significant balance changes for the next patch. I guess I'm probably killing a chance for a second interview with this... sorry bridger? I'm also pretty sure that there were comments that 1.3 was not a major balance patch in one of it's many stickied threads, and that the next one would be.
That thread is now gone.. Its been deleted. When 1.3 came out Buggo told us that 1.4 was in the works for some time, and it would be a 'balance patch' I remember this vividly. 1.4 looks more like a fix for 1.3. Im not accusing anyone of anything, or trying to be nasty. Im just a little dissapointed because I for one, was really looking forward to the 'balance patch' and see what Relic would do with a few balance issues I myself find glaring..
Its been stated in numerous threads... People making reference to waiting for 1.4 for balance issues... Im not making anything up..
S.
surprised the smoke bug that is at least a month old still isn't fixed
most of the balance issues i can understand taking a while to fix, but the FOW issue is beyond me. relic had it down perfect in DOW, you would think its an easy port...
im surprised that they said they fixed the online part, and its taken me 10 mins and still no automatch game foundyawn i think i'll find a new game it sucks waiting so long to get into a game just for ur allie to drop or whatever. o cool i jsut got in, nice loading screen was needed
#74
Again, someone give me something I can go look for. It's very easy for a community to delude itself - all it takes is one person saying something and it being repeated elsewhere, and now you have a false "truth". I'm open to the possibilty that I missed Buggo or Tranj or whoever saying that, but right now I don't have much to go on to find this, except "Yeah, I remember very clearly that they said something about balance." Ok, but where was that posted? The last changelog thread? Where?
The 1.3 Thread that has been deleted. (Or atleast I cant find it)
S.
Also try bridger's interview with the balance manager, samson mow.
Thanks for your efforts and all.
I hope we can get some nice balance changes later.
I really wish I could see inside the Relic.(Like, how it works)
Sometimes, I wonder what the heck is happening there.(No offense)
#78
Ok, I haven't looked at the interview with the balance guy, but the 1.3 Changelog thread contains zero posts by Relic or THQ promising balance changes in 1.4. All they said was that 1.4 was already in production and would be contain fixes for the bugs introduced in 1.3.
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=122181
edit: After skimming some threads from the past few weeks, all I see are assertions by various people that 1.4 will contain balance changes. I can't find Buggo or Tranj saying that.
We definately needed the online fixes, and that's definately been the most vocal concern up until this moment. We got what we wanted.
#80
Yea, do the math and what do you come up with? Are we to believe this is a tough thing to fix? That Relic has a dedicated team working on CoH and yet stuff like this isn't getting addressed? Now, don't get me wrong, I'm a working adult and understand projects take time, things don't happen over night and that customers can often be over demanding. But I also understand basic math. Things just don't add up.most of the balance issues i can understand taking a while to fix, but the FOW issue is beyond me. relic had it down perfect in DOW, you would think its an easy port...
I also find it funny that such a random, out of the blue change like buffing the Croc vs infantry (lawl) would make it into a patch meant to deal mostly with online issues? Why even include this? Someone trying to be a wiseguy? If Relic was going to choose one balance issue, why something no one is really requesting? Why not choose buffing Grens survivability or fixing Sherman smoke? Is the Smoke issue really that much more complicated than buffing the Croc, a mostly unrequested change? And why even do it this way? All it takes is using the damn thing or having it used against you to see it's very good. People don't make it because a Sherman is a better investment in that it kills infantry and tanks. It's not rocket surgery.
I don't know. I hate complaining and upsetting nice people. The Relic people that post here do seem like nice people. And I do appreciate some of the efforts that are made. In reality, I paid my $50.00 and received that value countless times over. Overall, though, I'm disappointed. I don't expect all changes yesterday, nor do I expect all of MY wishes to be listened to. But some things are just common sense and really shouldn't go months without attention.
And, Starfisher, I saw it with my own two eyes. So did others. I've not been able to locate the thread, either, but I'm not imagining it. This was before any comments about fixing stuff 1.3 broke.
Thanks for the list Buggo, good list so far addressing some of the very critical issues, is this a final list or should be be looking for undocumented changes as well?
Pondering why I keep playing MMO's.
#82
I'm getting a more comprehensive post from the balance/design team right now... but it should be noted that the Croc was a DESIGN change, not a balance change. The role of the Crocodile (a flamethrowing vehicle) is the same as that of the Axis Flammenwerfer. So by design, being counterparts of each other, they should be doing the same amount of damage. This wasn’t the case, so the designers fixed the disparity.
It wasn't to yank anyone's chain, I'm sorry about that.
All balance changes are being thoroughly tested for the next patch. As some of you know, balance is pretty delicate and can't just be fixed in a matter of days. Also, it's worth mentioning that if anyone at Relic was talking about the "next patch" being a balance patch (I'm pretty sure it wasn't me but you can definitely call me out if that is true), chances are they were talking about the "next patch" in the works, not 1.4 which was already being passed to QA.
#83
So, basically 1.4 should be treated not as a patch inofitself, but rather as the first part of a larger patch, some awkward thing between a full patch and a hotfix?
Listen, I know you guys are frustrated. But try to remember this. You guys asked for the online problems to be fixed first and foremost. We're hoping to do that with this patch.
A larger more significant patch with balance and gameplay changes is being worked on. These are the fixes that take a long time because thousands of games need to be played to test balance, and a lot of programming work goes into the bug fixes.
I can see the merits of that actually, though on the otherhand, with two QA sessions, what might happen is that the net rate of patching is slowed in exchange for getting priority fixes in mind, and since patches are fairly Short Run things(like in Economics), the changes proposed of additional QA staff would not be implemented yet due to time constraints. Now, I'm not an expert at QA, but from what I have seen, this seems to be what happening. Is that what the Relic team is aiming for?
#84
Then find it, godamnit. The forum has a search capacity, which I've been using for the past half hour and going through all the posts Buggo and Tranj have made since 1.3 came out. I cannot find one that states anything about 1.4 being a balance patch. I'm finding reams by people saying, "Yeah I think 1.4 is supposed to be balance", but none by Tranj or Buggo actually saying that it is. This looks like a case of everyone inferring something false and then treating it as fact, and now you are all up in arms about it.And, Starfisher, I saw it with my own two eyes. So did others. I've not been able to locate the thread, either, but I'm not imagining it. This was before any comments about fixing stuff 1.3 broke.
I want to find the truth of this. No thread has been deleted - they're locked an off the front page, but they still exist. If you remember it so clearly, you should be able to remember enough of the wording to find it with search.
Until you provide evidence beyond "I saw it with my own eyes!" you don't get to keep acting like it's true. My own two eyes, augmented with moderator search powers, have not been able to find this huge announcement. Help me out.
I for one am happy for this patch. It fixes some of the most glaring problems that most have been complaining about. You think relic doesn't care? Go take a look at EA, go take a look MII:TW, now Relic doesn't look so bad now.
i didnt know a fully armored tank and a halftrack with flamers are counterparts. pretty big cost differences, and no one builds a croc anyway, they should have just tossed in a sherman aoe splash nerf and seen the effects instead.
we already played with broken crap before, so if the sherman was horrible at infantry and broken towards them, oh well, we would live with it til 1.5.
I'm with the guys that said that the 1.3 thread which no longer exists mentioned 1.4 patch being a comprehensive balance patch. THis might be a case of collective memory being wrong, or a misleading statement, but I have a very vivid memory of reading such post by someone with greater authority then common forum peon.
That being said, this 'patch' is at best a hot fix. This is the kind of thing that gets pushed out the door in 5 days flat by a dedicated team of devs and QA beacuse the last patch introduced game breaking bugs. (barbed wire/tank traps).
The online changes are great, but due to rampant silliness in 1vs1 (smoke, sherman, lack of variety beyond use of armor on axis) I've given up on automatch and tend to play with friends only. We're looking towards balance changes that will freshen the game up and open new options up rather then may I say... silly changes like the Croc.
I really hope there are lots of undocumented changes. Someone should unpack the LUA files and run a diff between 1.3 and 1.4 version to see what changed.
EDIT:
Also I'd like to say that I was wrong in saying that you guys will take 4-6 weeks or so to push out 1.4 patch. You did it in 3-4.
On the other hand, this patch is basicly a fix to online issues plust fixes to the bugs introduced by 1.3.. But wrong is wrong.
Listen guy, settle down.. Your the one getting all nasty, not me or Timeless. I dont have any sort of agenda... When 1.3 came out there was a thread that turned into a really negative, nasty thread mostly about the tank traps.. In that thread is where Buggo posted this.. I can't fidn that thread, im guessing it was deleted.. In that thread Buggo said 1.4 has been in the works for a long time and would be out soon and that it was a "balance patch"
Please provide me a link to that thread and I'll show ya.
S.
#89
That's exactly why I made my earlier query, because this patch seems to be half a patch released in half to slightly more than half the time, so the net is a full patch if not slightly less than a full patch in the time it takes for a regular patch to come out.Also I'd like to say that I was wrong in saying that you guys will take 4-6 weeks or so to push out 1.4 patch. You did it in 3-4.
On the other hand, this patch is basicly a fix to online issues plust fixes to the bugs introduced by 1.3.. But wrong is wrong.
#90
Dread Moose: They're not supposed to be mirror units, but they are supposed to function in a similar fashion. Thus the buff to the Croc to bring it in line with the flammenwerfer's raw damage dealing ability.
#91
Starfisher, I'm looking. Or should I say, "goddamn it"!
Now, was that really needed?
And where is the performance and SLI fixes? Where? I cant see much info or any info in the change log to do with SLI fixes and graphics performance fixes. They must be joking to release this patch with no graphics performance enhancements eh. I mean, i have a E6600 @3.2ghz+ and a 7950 GX2 plus other goodies and i cannot have the graphics all the way up ever. My o My, how come? Most other games are running like a bat out of hell, but this company of heroes struggles like anything, jerking, stalling here and there, caching and caching some more, then jerking again. Whats going on? all drivers are latest and have tried others versions aswell - and tried all the versions of the game too . BUGGO - Relic, whats going on!
#93
Going insane.
THREADS DO NOT DISAPPEAR
Here is the 1.3 discussion thread: http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=122181
Here is the 1.3 changelog announcement:
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=119953
These were the two main 1.3 threads. They do not contain ANY assertions by Buggo or Tranj that 1.4 was a balance patch. None. If you all saw this, it must have been said somewhere else.
So I went and did a search on this forum looking for posts by Tranj and Buggo. I browsed through a bunch of those, and found NO ASSERTION that 1.4 was a balance thread.
At this point, all the evidence points to a simple conclusion: Tranj and Buggo never said anything about the balance properties of the 1.4 thread. Perhaps something was said in Bridger's interview, but I don't know where that is at the moment and given my complete dearth of results on the forum I'm going to say screw it - if you guys are so convinced that one of them told you it was a balance patch, go find the post, or quote the segment from the interview.
I really, really don't want to have to deal with bullshit from now until forever because somehow you all incorrectly got it into your heads that 1.4 was about balance. So prove it to me, or stop saying it, now.
#94
I did say several times that 1.4 was going to address online issues. Perhaps that is what is being mixed up with.
#95
*sigh*
Guess we'll find out the hard way...
#96
How about relaxing a bit? Why don't you let people find it? I remember just a post, buried in a thread, by a member of the Relic team that basically said 1.3 was not going to be a heavy balance patch, but that it would be the next patch. But why get all friggin bent over it?
yeah, The interveiw with mow, ToH 9, has comments that pass the grade. Still though, like buggo said it's 'in the next patch', and such implications...
... This is like living an episode of meet the press.
#98
Please. We have three pages of people ranting about how this is a broken promise, a crap patch and oh my god relic why?!, and now you're trying to cast me as the irrational psycho driving an otherwise jolly and calm discussion in to the ground.
You're not the one who is going to have to squash rumors for the next three months. I am justifiably pissed off, because you are making work for me and up until now have refused to put any effort into proving your case.
If relic actually did promise balance changes, it was clearly a one-time mistake, because every single post I can find says nothing about balance. I find myself in the unique position of being able to kill a false rumor/impression that will make everything harder on everyone forever if it's allowed to continue as valid, and I'm not going to chill out until I'm convinced this rumor is either valid or dead.
#99
I believe I remember Buggo specifying in the patch suggestions thread that all of that would not be for 1.4, but it was easy to overlook.
#100
Geez, this thread really reminds me of why I chose not to apply for a junior moderator position.
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