CoH Patch 1.4 Changelog (now with download link)

[Sgt. D. Pilla]

yeah, i was gonna download this 1.4 patch but why waste the time, in fact why waste time even playing this game anymore, i would think after months of time spent working on fixing the game problems you would have done it by now, im sick and tired of waiting thinking ohh, the issues are gonna be fixed real soon, damn it, FIX THE FRICKEN GAME, this game was the biggest waste of my money, I love relic and THQ but what is happening there, are they just too slack to bother fixing the fricken game, HURRY UP AND FIX THE GAME!!!!!!

[ceejayoz]

HURRY UP AND FIX THE GAME!!!!!!

Maybe they're trying to do that by releasing patches you apparently refuse to download?

[Demonic Spoon]

The game is perfectly playable as it is. It pisses me off that the bug was not fixed, but it's nowhere NEAR unplayable. I still love this game, and it's still fun as hell.


Besides, there were 3 patches in 3 months...not counting 1.4. That's damned impressive.

[Amon]

yeah, i was gonna download this 1.4 patch but why waste the time, in fact why waste time even playing this game anymore, i would think after months of time spent working on fixing the game problems you would have done it by now, im sick and tired of waiting thinking ohh, the issues are gonna be fixed real soon, damn it, FIX THE FRICKEN GAME, this game was the biggest waste of my money, I love relic and THQ but what is happening there, are they just too slack to bother fixing the fricken game, HURRY UP AND FIX THE GAME!!!!!!

They understand that, but like Buggo has stated multiple times, it's hard to fix all the problems within a few months.

So just try to be patient, if not, then don't bother playing it anymore. There aren't any other RTS's as good as this. So good luck finding a better game.

[WATchAS]

Well i player a few times now and the Only thing i can Say is THX so much RELIC-THQ-QA-Testers.

Thx so much for improving the game.

[Sgt. D. Pilla]

Dawn of War, easy

[Zifnab]

To be honest, I don't understand the people who are implying that Relic is actively neglecting its customers and fan base. How does that make any sense?

That said, I can't wait to get home from school to try out this new patch online (can't connect from college). Buggo, don't listen to some of these guys--most of us love you for what you're doing for us.

[Demonic Spoon]

Noone's pissed at Buggo, they're pissed at the Dev team.

[Brat_Boy]

I'm continually amazed at how people can complain to Relic. They're the most in-touch developer I've ever seen. How can anyone say 3 patches in 3 months isn't amazing?

[Unforsaken]

YAY!! YOU ROCK BUGGO!!! <3<3<3

Best wishes of a merry christmas to you Buggo<3 all around the community!

[Demonic Spoon]

True, but the lack of a sherman smoke bug fix is nigh unexcusable; it's been reported since beta I believe.

[Plan6]

True, but the lack of a sherman smoke bug fix is nigh unexcusable; it's been reported since beta I believe.

Unless they dont know what causes the smoke bug(hence it being a bug). Or they just figured out what was causing it can are trying to fix it. Or they know why is happening cant seem to make it stop, or making it spot causes more bugs.

Just because it isnt fixed right now doesnt mean they are slacking off. Bugs dont have an off switch, they need to be rooted out.

[jimmygojo2003]

I hope they dont fix the Sherman smoke because I need all the help I can get...What? You think my tank should die because I just drove it in front of 4 at-guns?? Silly....

[Noir]

Dawn of War, easy

Are you kidding? Comparing the points both games are and were in, respectively, DoW was in MUCH worse shape. This is nothing compared to what happened after the hoopla surrounding the December 2004 patch.

[Demonic Spoon]

Unless they dont know what causes the smoke bug(hence it being a bug). Or they just figured out what was causing it can are trying to fix it. Or they know why is happening cant seem to make it stop, or making it spot causes more bugs.

Just because it isnt fixed right now doesnt mean they are slacking off. Bugs dont have an off switch, they need to be rooted out.

No shit, hence why I am not blaming them for not FIXING the bug itself, but for not at LEAST disabling Sherman smoke until it IS fixed.

[Plan6]

Disabling a feature of the game because its bugged. The Panzer4 is bugged too, should it be disabled so people dont waste time building it?

[Demonic Spoon]

Nope, P4 is fine.

But disabling smoke would not change balance significantly. An Allied player would still be able to play a game without smoke and not be significantly worse off for it. Wheras the way it is now, it completely RUINS games that it's abused in.

[Timeless]

I don't know how you pulled that out of your ass. But it must've hurt. Because that's the biggest misinterpretation I have ever read.

I was in no way was saying that we should only post our praises. I was saying people take things way too far.

If you disagree with what Relic's doing, at least have the decency to be polite about it, and not a complete jerkoff.

No one pulled anything out of their ass, Amon, and Relic doesn't need you to fanboy cheerlead them against the angry masses, either. Had you said "Hey, guys, I can understand some are unhappy, but let's not get nasty about it", that's one thing, but what you posted was quite another as can be seen by the quotes below. People have the right to complain without being told they have "serious issues" or being called assholes if they call into question how good a job Relic is doing. You feel they are doing a great job. Fantastic for you! Three cheers and beers for everyone! Seriously.

I've remained constructive and also often ask people to simmer down. I'm not some kid that expects things yesterday. But just as I get tired of ridiculous ranting, I also tire of people from the other end of that spectrum.

However, I am extremely appalled by the community (or at least the assholes in it). You guys have done nothing but bitch, whine, and complain about how much of a terrible job Relic is doing, when in fact they are doing an excellent job.

I don't know what's wrong with you people, and why you need to complain so much, but you guys have some serious issues to deal with.

[Plan6]

Nope, P4 is fine.

If you watch the Tales of Heroes Balance Roundtable, the Relic rep says when asked why the P4 misses all the time and I quote "Its a bug."

Smoke is only bugged vs stugs and Tigers, the rest of the time, it works as intended.

OPs were bugged for a while as well, being able to do a partial build but still have full health. Same with barbarbed wire and tank traps. Should they have disabled them in 1.3 while they fixed them?

[Tacit]

Hey everyone,

Just to address the general question of "wherefore art the balance fixes?" and how people might have received the impression that they were going to be in patch 1.4.

Once we had patch 1.3 into QA and that lengthy process was underway, we started talking what might go into the 1.4 patch, and at that point it made most sense to integrate various bug fixes/balance changes that had been discussed (some of which are mentioned in this thread). But, then when patch 1.3 cleared QA and ended up in your hands, we discovered some surprising bugs had been introduced into the game.

So, at that point, our priority with 1.4 became (a) fixing the bugs we had introduced and (b) integrating important Online fixes & features that weren't ready in time for 1.3.

This pushed out the balance efforts until the next patch, release date to be determined (because I know you were going to ask).

Just so you guys know, Balance and Buggo don't make decisions about what goes into the patch, or when they get released. The Balance team, managed by Samson, help us balance the game and inform us of the balance issues they discover and they then work with the gameplay team to come up with good solutions, which are then implemented. Buggo has the great job of liaising with our communities (of which you guys are a huge part!), which I imagine can be especially interesting when you guys aren't happy about the patches. And she gathers your feedback and helps us understand what your priorities are, so we can make better decisions when we're looking at what to fix next.

But ultimately, if you feel you need to, you can hold me responsible for what goes in the patches, and when they get released.

I've said it elsewhere in these forums (and I've been around answering these types of things for a few years now, since the Dawn of War days), but I'll say it again -- patching is an enormously complicated process. Making the actual fixes is the easy part. Integrating them into 12 different SKUs of the game in such a way that they can all get patched from version 1.0 all the way to the most recent, without breaking anything in the entire SP or MP game, or the Online systems, and then getting it through a very intense QA process, is the part that takes a bit of finesse.

I don't say this to offer excuses or justification -- only to help educate and inform.

I think we've shown that by releasing all these patches within the first three months of CoH hitting stored shelves, patches which address major bugs and balance issues and also which add new features to the game, you can see that we are committed to all our current and future players.

And I guess that's pretty much all that can be said about that topic. So, go out and enjoy 1.4. We'll be watching.

[Timeless]

Plan6, I know you're smarter than that....are you just trying to argue, man? You know why the PIV wouldn't be removed....it only hurts the player using it!

[Plan6]

No Timeless, I just dont like the idea of removing somethign because its got coding problems. Smoke is only bugged vs the Stug and Tigers. I also dont think its a great idea to start of trend of "Hey, this seems bugged or wrong, so turn it off" in a game were so much happens under the hood.

[Timeless]

Yes, it should not be used right now, considering that it's not working. It's broken. When I play Allies, I do not use it. I can win fine without it. Unfortunately, as many of us have seen, others can not be trusted to do the same. Therefore, I see no problem removing the ability until it is fixed as it can give too big of an admitted unintended advantage. I have had this ability abused on me by good players and it's often not always as simple as just run away and come back to play another day.

Btw, thanks for that post, Tactic. At least we know what happened now.

[sgb]

We believe the drop hack bug to be fixed in this patch. We don't know for sure because it needs to be tested in real conditions. That's why it's not included in the changelog. We're monitoring it closely over the next week to see if it really is fixed.

Thank you for your fast reply. I might actually try some 2v2 ranked now that there isn't an 80% chance my wins will be nullified. Or get a loss for winning.

[Crackbone]

No Timeless, I just dont like the idea of removing somethign because its got coding problems. Smoke is only bugged vs the Stug and Tigers. I also dont think its a great idea to start of trend of "Hey, this seems bugged or wrong, so turn it off" in a game were so much happens under the hood.

The PIV bug and the Sherman Bug aren't even in the same league dude. A smoked Sherman can flat out win a game. Sherman smokes, rocks tanks and infantry, and is suddenly elite...

The Sherman smoke bug is such a blatent IMBA bug that Relic should just remove the damn function or fix it now...

This has been happening since beta, and the fact that it wasn't fixed this patch, as it is, without a doubt, the most IMBA BS in CoH at this point.

You can justify it in your own world, but the rest of us know from significant play time that if a player starts smoking Shermans, it's game over.

[nagesco]

Shame on any of you who have already begun whinging, relic have done the right thing here, theyve addressed the more pressing issues that affect the game, and sherman smoke should not be removed because its bugged! does that mean that we should remove panzerschreks for graphical glitches and remove the ladder cause it doesnt work properly or even move the whole online lobby cause that doesnt work either??
you dont just remove an aspect of the game so suddenly that is used frequently specially seeing the smoke doesnt affect vsing all tanks.

Thank-you relic for releasing 1.4 with the online fixes mainly, these are the most pressing issues seeing as online fixes allow people to actually play the game rather than fixing gameplay and still having a seriously buggy RO. I dont hold tacit responsible for any problems i believe this was the most right decision to patch online issues first especially seeing the in game chat is always full of people asking why they cant join games and such. (To all those whinging people out there grow up and be patient like the rest of us)

Nagesco

[Timeless]

For the last time, ghandi, we don't need you guys to tell people "Shame on you for complaining." That's BS. These forums are not just for those that want to throw rose petals in Relic's wake.

Btw, those issues you are talking about hurt no one but the guy using them - like the pschrecks having possible accuracy issues. Relic has admitted, however, that smoke is broken and not working as intended and it gives the user a pretty big advantage that can be game deciding. It affect two major Axis tanks and one that makes up the majority of almost all Axis armor groups, so yea, it's not like it only affect the PIV, which is much less used. There is a huge difference there and anyone should be able to see that.

People were complaining, btw, because they expected more out of this patch and have been waiting months for certain critical issues to be addressed. If you don't like it, post your praises and move on, no offense.

[Judicator]

Personally, I love patch 1.4. The game is back to it's fun playable state. It doesn't need a lot of balance changes. You can play online now, and the UI is even better. Tank traps are back to normal, wire is normal again.. Sure, last patch ruined some things, but now those things are fine. This is still a great, fun game and we should enjoy it as is. Down with the greedy "gimme gimme gimme more features, more changes, more stuff". Those things will come around in due time. For now be happy you own the best RTS to come around in many a year.

[Demonic Spoon]

If you watch the Tales of Heroes Balance Roundtable, the Relic rep says when asked why the P4 misses all the time and I quote "Its a bug."

Smoke is only bugged vs stugs and Tigers, the rest of the time, it works as intended.

OPs were bugged for a while as well, being able to do a partial build but still have full health. Same with barbarbed wire and tank traps. Should they have disabled them in 1.3 while they fixed them?

That was changed in 1.3. I tested P4s, and they are now on equal footing with Shermans.

Hey everyone,

Just to address the general question of "wherefore art the balance fixes?" and how people might have received the impression that they were going to be in patch 1.4.

Once we had patch 1.3 into QA and that lengthy process was underway, we started talking what might go into the 1.4 patch, and at that point it made most sense to integrate various bug fixes/balance changes that had been discussed (some of which are mentioned in this thread). But, then when patch 1.3 cleared QA and ended up in your hands, we discovered some surprising bugs had been introduced into the game.

So, at that point, our priority with 1.4 became (a) fixing the bugs we had introduced and (b) integrating important Online fixes & features that weren't ready in time for 1.3.

This pushed out the balance efforts until the next patch, release date to be determined (because I know you were going to ask).

Just so you guys know, Balance and Buggo don't make decisions about what goes into the patch, or when they get released. The Balance team, managed by Samson, help us balance the game and inform us of the balance issues they discover and they then work with the gameplay team to come up with good solutions, which are then implemented. Buggo has the great job of liaising with our communities (of which you guys are a huge part!), which I imagine can be especially interesting when you guys aren't happy about the patches. And she gathers your feedback and helps us understand what your priorities are, so we can make better decisions when we're looking at what to fix next.

But ultimately, if you feel you need to, you can hold me responsible for what goes in the patches, and when they get released.

I've said it elsewhere in these forums (and I've been around answering these types of things for a few years now, since the Dawn of War days), but I'll say it again -- patching is an enormously complicated process. Making the actual fixes is the easy part. Integrating them into 12 different SKUs of the game in such a way that they can all get patched from version 1.0 all the way to the most recent, without breaking anything in the entire SP or MP game, or the Online systems, and then getting it through a very intense QA process, is the part that takes a bit of finesse.

I don't say this to offer excuses or justification -- only to help educate and inform.

I think we've shown that by releasing all these patches within the first three months of CoH hitting stored shelves, patches which address major bugs and balance issues and also which add new features to the game, you can see that we are committed to all our current and future players.

And I guess that's pretty much all that can be said about that topic. So, go out and enjoy 1.4. We'll be watching.

fair enough, but seeing as how sherman smoke bugs have the capacity to ruin games, why was it not just disabled?

No Timeless, I just dont like the idea of removing somethign because its got coding problems. Smoke is only bugged vs the Stug and Tigers. I also dont think its a great idea to start of trend of "Hey, this seems bugged or wrong, so turn it off" in a game were so much happens under the hood.

The game I played where Sherman smoke had the same effect against AT guns and shreks says differently.

[BeSerKa]

Im Genuinely surprised by how quickly they managed to get the Patch out, thats almost on par with EA nice work.
Interested to know why the One shot Kills with the Snipers is back, I thought they made a good move making it take two. The Performance and Lag indicator sounds like an answer to some serious Multiplayer problems. Downloading now. Wicked Fun.

[Danger30Q]

Thank you for the info Tacit.

We all do appreciate knowing a bit more of what goes on in the grand scheme of balance and development.

[nagesco]

why expect more out of the patch??? you shouldnt have expected anything. relic didnt say anything about what was going to be released in the patch and its been 3 weeks since 1.3 was released and you expect so many fixes in just one patch??

if they had have fixed all the gameplay issues that they intend to fix in 1.5 you wold all be filling the forums whinging how you were gonna quit the game cause you wanted everything in 1.4 which caused it further delay, aint nothing good enough? im thankful for 1.4 it has made my online experience a little easier knowing whats a real game and what isnt. most important issues should be addressed first, whats the good of fixing gameplay issues and balances when you cant even connect to the game??

[sugaki]

The Balance team, managed by Samson, help us balance the game and inform us of the balance issues they discover and they then work with the gameplay team to come up with good solutions, which are then implemented.

I appreciate the feedback Tacit, but I must say I'm still unconvinced. In my mind, patch 1.4 is the minimum where the game should've started out as release.

Tell Samson to stop playing Allies and start playing Axis. For some reason he deems it more important to buff Crocodiles then to disable/fix the Sherman plasma shield. From the changes across these patches, I'm extremely skeptical the balance team has any grasp on community concerns.

[daevangelist]

Im Genuinely surprised by how quickly they managed to get the Patch out, thats almost on par with EA nice work.
Interested to know why the One shot Kills with the Snipers is back, I thought they made a good move making it take two. The Performance and Lag indicator sounds like an answer to some serious Multiplayer problems. Downloading now. Wicked Fun.

Are you just being sarcastic? "... almost on par with EA..." as in, years before a patch comes out?

[haido]

Quite disappointed to see that Smoke wasn't fixed and 2vs2 arranged games isn't in there.

But still kudos to Buggo for still being polite and still talking to us. Heck of a job. After that i must say that there is only one other game company i know that gives this kind of feedback. You answer almost every time. Great works and keep it up!

I set my sights on 1.5 and by then i want this game working or i see no effort trying to put up with the game anymore. That's just my opinion.

[Excellion]

... To be fair he didn't outright say 1.4 is a balance patch, just that certain balance changes(regarding the BAR specifically) were goals for the next patch, and so to everyone listening it follows that the next patch is a balance patch, and that put a context on other comments around the forums and in the interview.

I just wanted to point out that nowhere in TOH was it said that 1.4 was a balance patch. At one point Bridger said that he'd "definitely like to see what happens in the next balance patch" and at anther point I said "I'd like to fix the suppression issue by next patch". It was never said that it was a goal of the patch.

And Sugaki, it may be prudent to wait for the actual balance patch (when it is released) before you evaluate how much of a grasp the balance team has on community concerns. Everyone here is working very hard to make sure that balance issues are addressed.

Thanks,

Samson

[lolno]

You said that a nerf to the BAR would be in the next patch, hopefully. You never said 1.4, just 'next patch', but i'd pretty much say that what you said passes as a goal.

There was a lot of assumption, yes, but trying to find a loophole in the wording is no way to convince people.

[Plan6]

You said that a nerf to the BAR would be in the next patch, hopefully. You never said 1.4, just 'next patch', but you most definitely said that balance changes to the BAR were a goal of the next patch.

That was before the tank trap bug and barwire bug. Clearly they pushed up a few things into a "mirco" patch and fixed the bugs. The new online features are pretty nice, btw.

[lolno]

I realize that, just saying there's not much point trying to hide. Everyone knows nothing was said directly, but there's no denying things gave the reasonable impression of upcomming balance changes.

[Plan6]

I realize that, just saying there's not much point trying to hide. Everyone knows nothing was said directly, but there's no denying things gave the reasonable impression of upcomming balance changes.

And they are still upcomming. They arnt going to rush this time. Im also sure Excellion doesnt memorise every word he says. Im also sure hes to busy to go back and check what he said.

This super passive agressive attempts to insult Relic are off the wall. 3 patches in 3 months, I cant remember the last time that happened in a game.

[lolno]

Look, you're over reacting. What he said is recorded. I've heard it, so have other i guess, and he's obviously not interested in getting a bad rep. That's fine, it's not like he schemed to mislead people, but im just saying that no one claimed he directly said 1.4 was for balance, that was assumed by listeners, however there's no point in trying to pretend that it didn't sound like 1.4 would be a balance patch.

[NovaBurn]

This is mainly direct towards the people at relic, but also has a feedback perspective to those of us on the forums

Personally I think that you (Relic) should pretty much ignore the general opinions of the forum on balance and patch content preference and just do what you see as the most important and priority needs of the game. I've had the chance to just sit back and watch a lot of the posting since CoH was initially released and the 3-4 patches since and every single time I see the exact same thing. This community has continually failed to have any sort of idea of the patch QA process, the ability to balance a game in an unbiased manner, and most evidently; the ability to be very two-faced in the dealings with you.

Relic releases a patch, we whine about how it doesn't fix anything we want and demand you fix it faster. Some of us even go so far to say we could do it better or that it doesn't take that long to fix.

Relic releases a tentative change log, we rip the dev team apart for the proposed changes initially put up and then suddenly go silent to the wording changes it gets within the next hour.

Constant hounding of Relic with complaints and whines to fix issues that honestly neither the community, including myself have the right to complain about the time frame in which to fix it. Not only that, but also have the ability to fix it to begin with. While it is true we do have some right to petition or make forth some effort to push for certain things as we are your customers and have helped you to where you are now, we do not have the right to demand anything, we are but a few hundred of the millions owners of CoH or DoW.

On top of this, the community hangs Buggo and the Dev team out to dry for not providing the balance changes that were never said to happen on any official basis. Look at the first 3 pages of this thread (if you have max post per page), its nothing but outright bitching and complaining we were lied to and that you said one thing and we were given another. Hell we even drive Starfisher up a fraking wall with the complaints and idea that there was going to be balance fixes when those who made such accusations provide no proof or evidence of such being said. Not to mention the random spurts of outright unneeded offensive and downright trolling posts.

Now I understand that there are those of us in the community that do not fit those profile or description, and actually understands what it takes for patch development, game balancing, and managerial and corporate level software development, either through personal experience or through your career or what have you. However as a whole I see that that the community fitting the above and time and time again will repeat itself. I have been a long time supporter of relic and its games. I have seen them go from small company who pops out Homeworld spawning this community to the company it is now of producing games that are worthy of competition in WGL and CPL.

I know that Relic can produce a game without the constant hounding they get every day on the forums, be it with Company of Heroes or with Dawn of War. I've had the pleasure of meeting some of the crew up there and have seen them in action, I have seen what it takes to do all the above and can assure you that it is by no means simple. It is not as simple as changing a few values in the unit tables and then seeing what happens. Long term repercussions and other things must be discussed and determined before making any changes. This is the sort of thing shown to us in the community videos so thoughtfully provided by Buggo and the crew at relic taking time out of their day to keep in touch. I appreciate the effect they have thus put forth, but in keeping with the article that was posted not too long ago mentioning the need for game development companies to ignore their hardcore fanbase, I keep seeing that sort of mentality here on the forums.

I know you guys at Relic/THQ aren't stupid, you guys know your stuff; that's why you are where you are today. Don't let us get in the way of development process just because we are your community homebase. You may piss off some of us to no end, but the rest of us will be grateful for it in due time.

As for the rest of the forum as a whole. Well you know where you stand as far as your quality of posting and ability to understand the information given to you thus far. This post is pretty much going to go in one ear and out the other for 99% of those that actually take the time to read it. I have no intention of trying to force a change on anyone as that is going to be near impossible. My aim was more to that of the staff at relic, Buggo, Tranj who post here.


Beyond that, nice to see that the patch came out within a short time of the 1.3 coming out. Look forward to more to come.

[Danger30Q]

I'm assuming the ladder is staying as it is?

[Reverie]

Quick bug fix patch with a little balancing, that's good enough with me.

Now the next one better start on those Sherms and obsolete AT infantry. There are some tier-unlocking-units suggestions worth considering too. And hopefully more mod tools... (prepares for another long wait

[Timeless]

Nova, some of us can "understand" and still express our frustration. Just because you are content, doesn't mean everyone has to be, nor does it mean you are somehow more enlightened than anyone that has complaints.

Anyway, I'm tired of waiting months for some of these changes, but what else can I do? If I get tired of it, I guess I'll find something else. But CoH is so addicting, so who knows?

Some of these changes are very nice - namely the load bars and ping times.

[lolno]

You've wasted your effort in posting that. Relic has clear intentions to further involve the community, and honestly the patch isn't about making friends. I don't think they come here to picnic near the rosebed. If they come here I expect it's because they realize that people do understand the game, despite conflicts in temperment, and that the message is more important than the messenger. You may not like how some one posts, and apparently you may not believe that the message is important, but oh well, as long as there's some substance to it, it is useful to relic.

When there is an uproar of dissent within a community you don't solve it by pretending it's not there. You solve it by buckling up, reaching out and easing their fears until they are put to rest, even if it's outside your comfort zone. If you do what you're suggestion you only confirm the belief. You don't gain trust easily, and you certainly don't help anything by doing what you're suggesting.

[hawk_eye]

Ooo oo and new content

[Demonic Spoon]

(from bonnet)edit: Generally a quote to text ratio of less than the original 917:1 is good for everyone

Agreed.

[Sgt. D. Pilla]

AGREED Even Though I Bitch Aswell, I Guess I Just Get Pissed

[ceejayoz]

Off-topic posts deleted. Take your technical support requests to the proper forum.