now you're rolling out the big boys, how are you going to deal with the fact that most of the weapons are supposed to be able to fire from one end of the map to the other? how are the titans balanced against other races
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now you're rolling out the big boys, how are you going to deal with the fact that most of the weapons are supposed to be able to fire from one end of the map to the other? how are the titans balanced against other races
thats the thing, this is a titan mod. i dont think its meant to be balanced. but i mean you could make them shoot far yea. but have a low vision range. also make em really expensive.. eather way its not about balancing as much as it is kicking ass with your metal behomoths
hmm, i'd be more in favour of something thats fun and challenging to play several times, instead of just walking over everyone once or twice
There are a number of factors that limit the titans' effectiveness as units:
First, manueverability. This is key - both in tracking speed on the weapons, and turning speed on the chassis. The warhound turns at about 45 degree/sec. By comparison the Reaver will be about 30 degree/sec, and the Warlord 25. This means if you're behind a titan you have a good few seconds blasting before it can return the favour. Effective micro is the order of the day for opponents.
Second, weapon arcs. Titans generally fire forward - arm weapons have about 45 degrees traversal to the side they're on and about 10 degrees in. Downward traversal varies, but results in a fairly substantial minimum range. The maximum range is downplayed in most cases: The twin turbolaser for example will have similar range to the Land Raider's lascannon. The gatling blaster similar range to the Predator's autocannon. Of course, their damage is going to be slightly more. The Reaver's multilauncher is the longest range weapon I'm planning on - basically it'll be about double the range a Whirlwind.
Third - size. On many maps the large titans are simply too big to be effective (other than the fire-support Reaver), and the smaller ones may suffer with turning problems in enclosed spaces. As they should. In some maps you might not even be able to build the assembly bay for Battle Titans. It's big, y'know. If an IG player mumbles about space, a Titan player will cry.
Fourth - cost. Titans will not be cheap, in terms of time or resources. You will NOT want them to die. IF you get them before you're base-raped. Of course, once you've got a couple of Warhounds searching for targets your (rather naff) infantry can't deal with, things change. But I wouldn't expect that until other races are getting settled into Tier 3.
EDIT: WIP update on the Warlord. It's now a spit over 8k tris. At a guess, it'll fall in around 8,750 once I've done the reactor and some small details on the carapace. On top of that will go the waist banner, and various seals and scrolls and things, taking it up to around 9k fully loaded.
Last edited by Winterdyne; 11th Aug 08 at 5:18 PM.
Excellent work, as always.
Some ideas on balancing that you might not have considered:
-Accuracy: titans are awesome machines, and their equal complexity may make aiming at the smaller targets difficult.
-No Turrets: with the builk of the army concentrated in so few units, a direct assualt on the base could be decisive, especially considering how long it would take to react. With no defensive buildings, that may force players to tie up one of their few titans on guard duty, restricting offensive capabilities; or risk annahilation...
Kudos again; I now have a reason to pic up soulstorm after all.
Gawd,that thing looks beautiful.
Shall i get SS?
Firestorm65:
Reducing the accuracy vs infantry for some of the anti-vehicle weapons is an option, and in all probability will be done, *especially* when moving.
Limiting the number of turrets is another option I will be looking at. At the moment I'm thinking of doing either Skitarii-manned Sabre platforms as turrets (so easy to destroy) or something with the Servitor torso's if I'm feeling lazy.
But yeah, you've got the idea - in general the base is the weak spot - Although Titans are tough, you get a maximum of 4, they're role-specialised and they need to cover each other. The Skitarii troops and Combat Servitor units can deal with light enemy targets holding SP's and do some minor harassing.
I'm gonna put details of the buildings I have planned on the first post.
And yes, this will be for Soulstorm only.
Hmmmm I dunno. I always imagined vulcan mega bolters to annihalate scores of troops.
Beta Tested:
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#959
Who said they weren't? I think it's more the plasma blastgun or turbolaser WD was mentioning, which are (esp. in the case of the TLD) more of a pinpoint, focused type therefore of less use and effectiveness against dispersed foot troops. Sure, they'd vapourise any troops they hit, but it wouldn't be a massive infantry killer like the VMB which can wipe a large area in one long salvo.
We look to the heavens so that one day our children may look back towards home.
Yeah, Lleman's on the money here. The only place you'll find the VMB is on the Jackal variant Warhounds, and on the Ace, 'cos he gets everything. I'm toying with the idea of putting it on the carapace mounts on the warlord (along with the inferno cannon) but they'd both need remodelling a bit. Not sure if I can be bothered, or if its a good idea gameplay wise.
#961
Oh there is always enough room for more toys of mass destruction - VMB included! Not sure as a major weapon upgrade or standard equipment but certainly a VERY nice-to-have.
OK, I've updated the first post with the building descriptions.
I'm also looking for some help with modelling tasks, primarily on environment models (buildings etc for mapping), but also with the buildings for this mod. I need people that know how to model, UV and texture, matching style to someone elses work (namely mine and Relic's). If you think you're capable, drop me a PM or MSN me, and we'll have a chat.
Very nice descriptions Winterdyne, I'm looking forward to the sabre gun platforms.
"Follow me if I advance.
Kill me if I retreat.
Avenge me if I die." -Warmaster Solon
mate your work is awesome you have to give us a beta even a rough one !please consider it
" Orkses is never beaten in battle. If we win we win, if we die we die so it don't count as defeat. If we runs for it we don't die neither, so we can always cum back for anuvver go, see!"
Great models and use of texture space here, well executed to say atleast.
Titanic buissness, a titanic undertaking
*drools*
Like mentioned before, any chance of getting some release so we can all drool at the Titan ingame soonishly?
There was a mention of a release somewhere around christmas, but dont hold that against me
PS:
any updates winterdyne?
No, not had a chance to do anything on DoW in a while. Still want to get something out for Christmas though. It'd be nice. I've got a tiny bit of finishing off on the warlord model to do, then I'll be modelling and texturing the techpriests, then the magos, then back to retexture ALL the titans. The warhound should end up looking a lot sharper and neater, especially on the head.
hey i dont know if this was mentioned but, are you going to add titans for the other races as well?
For the Greater Good!!
No,it was said that all these Titans will be in a separate race.hey i dont know if this was mentioned but, are you going to add titans for the other races as well?
I believe he mentioned holding off the other races titans until after he finished this race, which would make sense.
Believe it or not, there are versions of many other titans kicking around the archives of various modders. The eldar titans mentioned in the first few posts of this thread are REALLY nice looking models. I wouldn't bother modelling up when they've already been done and I can potentially beg or borrow. :-)
Good work Witerdyne can't wait to get this mod around christmas.
Uraahh SemperFi Marines!!! For the God Emperor of the Imperium
finaly! ive been hopeing to hear something about titans since i saw them in ttru but never found anything, guess i just didnt look hard enough. i researched it a bit and found many interesting table top units "one in particular that looked like a massive moveing battle-base that could carry many units" and since then have hoped someone would start working to include them in the game. i wish much luck to you Winterdyne and hope to see your new race in-game soon.
by the way, i read a few posts and see that there are more titans that either have already been created or are in the works. does anybody know where i can find them?
#976
So far they haven't been released (except possibly the early WH in the ttru mod?) and i don't think their creators intend to let them out for grabs.
Well there are the previous titans made (by i forget who) but they werent textured.
other than that, the only other mod with a released titan
Did MMX not have a titan mod at some point? That was a long time ago though, and the skins were low res from what I remember.
Thats it, MMX has titans but no textures
Awesome looks really cool I should download when it comes out
another question, i was looking at some of the threads and saw the discussion about the tau and what to use as there uber unit and thought to myself has anyone goten a flying unit "the one imperials use to drop supplys for example" in game? i heard that you are useing the buildings as a sort of "order giver" to set bombing runs and the like,wich is awesome but has anyone gotten the actual units in game? ive heard that this is nearly impossible but dont mod so i dont know if anyone has done so.
thx again
No - I was thinking about using building based abilities, but nothing firm has come of it. As for flyers in Dogs of War - there aren't any except the Arvus planned at present.
The obvious Tau super-heavy is the Manta, but in my opinion it's just too big to be practical in game. Orcas as flying transports might be a better option though. I've been rather unmotivated to work on the mod of late, so there's been no movement at all (not even on the warlord). That Christmas release is looking like a no-go. :-( Ho hum. Will crack on with it at some point I'm sure.
ya it probably would be to big to be of any real use in most of the maps i play on. still it would be amazing to see it in game.sad to hear the building abilitys didnt turn out but hey you did get alot done that i personaly thought would be near impossible. it was quite awe-inspiring when i saw the war hound in ttru and these other models will be just as great i think. so ill be waiting for the release along side many others im sure. as for the christmas release, like they say rome wasent built in a day.
So this mod is all about titans and is that all? I read through the starting description and I am rather confused...
Heresy lies in idleness.
Dawn of War: Firestorm over Kronus ;D
http://www.fok.dow-mods.com/index.php
#985
Well, i think the general description is rather clear; titans, ground troops (skitarii) some armour. Period.
Ah got ya. Skitrii another branch of the Cadia? Is there some lore I can read about em? Ill google it when I get the chance unless anyone has some on hand.
#987
No, you don't... :/Ah got ya. Skitrii another branch of the Cadia?
Skitarii are ground troops to the Adeptus Mechanicus. Since the Titan Legions are an engine force of the AM, Skitarii also serve as support troops for the titans. Simple as that... and nothing to do with IG and Cadians.
Ah ok gotcha
The confusion may be due to the use of the standard IG model. I think this suits fluff wise as Cadians are reputed to be among the best-equipped IG regiments. As such similar patterned gear is used in many other regiments - these particular skitarii regiments included.
#990
Well, besides this, Skitarii seems to take various 'forms' and looks depending on the forgeworld they come from.This was rather clear before but it seems GW has given some license and guidelines over this to Dan Abnett in his latest novel 'Titanicus'.
I know, i know, it's the old debate 'novels vs. canon', but some approbabtion must have been given to the writer to provide us with Skitarii of the most unusual shapes.
Yeah, I think the general background fluff is moving away from the old 80's style 'bionic' servitors and moving more toward the full-body-cyborg robocop 2 concepts (gothed up). It's a trend I like (that I think suits the setting) but I'll be sticking with what I've got - primarily 'cause I want them to be recognisably Imperial, and also to keep them weak for game purposes.
Okay, I could do with some help getting this moving again. I'm looking for some enthusiastic, mature, contactable (UK / european time) assistants with some artistic talent - both 2D and 3D. You'll need to like Titans. You'll need to know the basics of texturing and or miniature painting (they're more similar than you realise). You'll also need to know your way round the mod tools (as I've forgotten most of what I need to know). Apply by msn - do not email the hotmail addy (its for spam only), do not PM, it fills quick.
Here's hoping you get the support you require.
#994
i would like to say id help out but im already on a few race mods already :S mostly for chaos convertionationalism to make up a word
Tutorials_And_Helpful_Sites_Here <-link
Want a 3d model commissioned? I may do so. Pm me!
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Good luck finding the help you need man.
Hey Winterdyne top scores on the mod so far!I was just wondering though, how are you gonna make the void shields work for the Titans. I've checked the entire thread and I haven't heard anything about void shields.
As I walk through the valley of the shadow and the daemon I shall fear nothing, for I am what the daemon fears.
you know he's right. im surprised that that hasnt come up.
Void shields can't easily be implemented as they should be, so they won't - Titans will simply be high HP, vehicle_high armour units. To some extent the self-repair abilities represent 'putting shields back up', combined with minor repairs as detailed in Adeptus Titanicus.
#999
why not use the morale to represent it? morale can have modifiers so it would be possible to have a shield take up the damage, represented by morale and then when morale is gone, modifiers disable allowing for damage to the actual unit. you could even have an event which looks like the shield as well.
#1000
Winterdyne: I actually had a thought about void shields not to long ago in regards to an idea I've been tossing around... giving them the functionality of allowing some shots through from certain weapons and stopping all others. If/when I get the chance to test my idea, I'll pass it along if it works (and if you're interested, of course.)
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