B5 MOD Discussion Thread

[Ringleader]

Well, I recently reinstalled a lot of my software on a new system, and now CFHOD 3 doesn't work like before, as in I can't preview meshes and textures. I know that with version 4, I can't import the 8192 x 4096 file, it crashes when I try (I have plenty of memory, I think it's just the program limitations).

I can't seem to pick up the technical nuances of CFHOD, or any of the advanced shaders, and I'd like to focus on other aspects of my project. If I send you guys the mesh, and the textures, would you please make an hod file for me? You can use it too, if you can get the highres texture working. Also, I'm not sure if you can use normal maps on the terrain texture, but if you can, I can send one in addition.

[CnlPepper]

As TONV said, I did manage to get a larger texture to work correctly. I was using my version of CFHodED 3, not the new v4 version (I've not had time to play with that properly). I'd like to help but I'm rather stuck atm:

While I'm here, a brief update on progress (or the lack of). I'm sorry to say I'm stuck in the middle of a house building nightmare with no end in sight at the moment. Until its mostly wrapped up I'm going to be unable to do any work on the mod. At least for the time being the mod is dead unless other people want to start contributing work. I'd really like to balance the costs of the ships and release a beta version but I'm buggered for time.

Sorry not the best news. Hopefully I'll find time to get back to it some day soon.

[Ringleader]

Alright, I downloaded the CFHOD version linked in your sig, and I was wondering if you also happened to have the necessary DLL's on ya.

Oh, and do you know if that planet shader takes normal maps for the terrain layer? It looks as though the cloud layer has one, but gosh, I'd really like bump mapping on the terrain layer too.

[CnlPepper]

All the layers use exactly the same shader, what you use in one, you can use in another.

I'm not on my home PC atm so I don't have the necessary files. I really should package them all up......

[Ringleader]

So then terrain can have normal mapping? How can I apply normal maps to the terrain layer?

Also, which version of CFHOD did you use to import the 8192 x 4096 sized image?

Thanks for the help btw, I can see my vision taking shape because of it.

[Ringleader]

Alright, I managed to import the 8192 x 4096 sized image into CFHOD and successfully make an hod file out of it. With that in game, I thought a higher resolution image would look better, so I tried importing a 16384 x 8192 sized image into CFHOD3, and it came up with the error: "Run-time error '6': overflow".

I really want to increase the resolution of the diffuse and clouds_trans_final images. I don't think Photoshop can export DDS files larger then 4096 x 2048, (I get an error ever time I try), so I used TGA file formats when importing the diffuse image, but I see that the clouds_trans_final is a DDS, so it appears as though someone was able to successfully export a 8192 x 4096 sized DDS file, and import it into CFHOD.

I'm only using planets at close range, this is why I need higher resolution waterc, diffuse, and cloud_trans_final images, and why DDS is not as crucial as it would be in other situations. But, if someone was able to export such a large DDS file from photoshop, and import it into CFHOD, please share your knowledge.

[CnlPepper]

I used nvidia's DDS command line tools to convert the large textures to DDS. The photoshop plugin breaks as you say.

The CFHodED error is likely due to the extreme file size, 16384x8192 tga is HUGE.

[TON_Viper]

Btw CnlPepper, while you're here, could you give me an overview of what settings to use for my normal maps in the nvidia tool?

The first time I tried it, I got weirdly fucked up textures, and the second time, the textures looked fairly normal, but with no noticeable bump map effect. I.e. they just looked flat.

Help me CnlPepper, you're my only hope.

[Ringleader]

I have successfully harnessed the power of normal maps on terrain, but when you get too close to the planet, there is a magnifying glass effect, where the spot your closest to expands.

*edit*

Actually, it seems like there are a fair bit more problems then just the magnifying glass effect. I noticed before when you zoom in close to the clouds, the magnifying glass effect is there, but it's not nearly as pronounced as it was when I made the terrain normal map, and I don't know how I can reduce this.

I had previously downloaded the DDS plugin for PS, and I used the Nvidea Tools Normal Map Filter to make the normal map, and I was able to import the normal.dds file into CFHOD and into game (I replaced the $normal1 parameter with a custom normal map), but there's a weird double layering effect:




I think this double layer has something to do with the default normal map height, which normally wouldn't be visible, but the omission of the water area from the normal map by the waterrc image made double layer visible. I think the default height created by the PS normal map generator is automatically higher then zero, meaning even flat ground at almost sea level way above sea level. As far as fixing this, I think maybe if I somehow lower the default normal height, this will fix the double layer effect, but I'm not sure how much?

I have no clue where to start on reducing or removing the magnifying glass effect.

[Tekanako]

I have something that may prove to be useful:
http://tekanako-the-first.deviantart.com/#/d2ypfen

Enjoy!

[P.G.C]

Site http://www.thegamingunion.co.uk/foru...splay.php?f=93 died?

[TON_Viper]

Yep, The Gaming Union is no more.

[P.G.C]

It can save the template site?

[Ringleader]

I managed to get the normal map working, I just took the cloud one, saved the terrain normal map on top of it, and saved with a new name.

I'm trying to make a planet with rings, and I was wondering if HW2 supports translucent/transparent textures, like the rings would just be a translucent circle on a 2d square plane.

[Tekanako]

Bummer, if I were you, I would revisit B5WWE at a later point in time (just ask Zathras to help you with the time bit), from what I saw it has tons of promise.

[Ringleader]

Have you guys tried improving the bloom effect? You have really nice shaders, but the default bloom looks boxy, and generally not good in any situation.

I really think it's the next thing in the list of HW2 effects that need to be modernized.


edit*

Alright, I'm trying to use normal maps on ships, and are you supposed to add the $glow and $normal parameters to the matte shader? Or is there another matte shader that has those parameters already? I ask because I tried adding them, and there was no visible effect in CFHOD 4. Is the new matte shader better with translucent textures?

Also, are the HW2 2.0 shaders more advanced then the B5 shaders? Or the other way around maybe?

[TON_Viper]

Since CnlPepper, who made the shaders is a member of the Babylon 5 mod, the shaders will always be the newest version in this mod.

Yes, you're supposed to add the parameters to the matte shader, and no, I don't see an effect in CFHodEd either.

You should get the right effect ingame though.

*edit*
mattealpha is the shader you need if you want transparency in a texture. I have no idea if it supports partial transparency though. You'll have to get CnlPepper to answer that one.

[Ringleader]

Alright, I'll have to give mattealpha a shot later, but now I'm having some problems with normal mapping. I followed this tutorial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG3pTxgZdsI

And, when I load the Normal maps up in game, they appear bumpy as they should, but whenever I'm not looking directly at a face, the texture appears to shift on the 3d face. I believe something similar happened with the planets when I tried to make normal maps of the terrain. I spoke with a friend who knows a little bit more about normal mapping then I do, and he said that the base normal map color should be a blue colored. The normal maps I've been generating in PS have been a light purple/bluish color, and I can't be sure it's the right color.

I've had a feeling that the default flat color of a normal map had something to do with how high the default height is when the texture is applied to a model, but I really don't know. Just out of curiosity, what programs do you use to generate normal maps, and how do you generate normal maps that are only bumpy, and not floating above a mesh face?

[Sastrei]

Your parallax texture slot needs a 50% gray fill. This will keep the texture from shifting. Your normal map is likely fine, it's just the parallax shader going crazy from a lack of info.

[Ringleader]

Parallax shader you say?

Where is the parallax shader slot and how do I gray fill it? I think I get what your saying, but I just don't know how.

[Sastrei]

Alpha channel on your $normal texture, if I'm remembering right. Just fill that with 50% grey.

-Stefan-

[Ringleader]

Oh, that works.

heh, I originally tried adding a black layer with 50% opacity, although it corrected the floating textures, the lighting and shadowing was all crazy.

Thanks.

*edit*

Lets say I wanted to make highlights and dark areas recessed, is there a way to make both ends of the spectrum indented, while making what's in between (neither dark nor light) extruded?

Also, how taxing are bump maps? Like would it be bad to have a higher resolution bump map then the diffuse texture? Only for the closest LOD I mean.

[Sastrei]

Lets say I wanted to make highlights and dark areas recessed, is there a way to make both ends of the spectrum indented, while making what's in between (neither dark nor light) extruded?

No, you'll have to use the standard convention of white is high, black is low.

Also, how taxing are bump maps? Like would it be bad to have a higher resolution bump map then the diffuse texture? Only for the closest LOD I mean.

It's not disproportionate to the size as far as I'm aware. If you have a bigger normal map, it'll just chew up more texture budget same as any other texture. Check the file sizes of your .hods with textures and compare them to stock .hod file sizes to get a sense of if your textures are perhaps excessively large. Also, it should be perfectly fine appearance wise to have a higher resolution normal than diffuse.

-Stefan-

[Ringleader]

Alright, thanks. I'll stick with equally sized diffuse and normal textures for now.

I'm still trying to work in CFHOD v.3, and I can't get very far without the proper DLL files, does anyone have them in a pack form for download?

[Ringleader]

Hey, I was wondering if HW2 supports Ambient Occlusion mapping?

Like if I generated an AO map like how I would generate a normal map, could I implement it in a similar manner?[COLOR="Silver"]




*edit*

Have you guys considered adding a motion blur effect?

[TON_Viper]

Well, it's only really CnlPepper who can answer that, so I hope he sees this.

[Nathanius]

I would also like to ask CnlPepper about the cloak effect seemingly to be missing from Shader 2! If he sees this! It confounded me for quite awhile...

[CnlPepper]

Nathanius: I'm not sure why the cloak effect doesn't work any more. I'm pretty sure the "fade" variable passed from the HW2 exe to the shader programs is being applied correctly. I'll look at it when I get the chance.

Ringleader: Motion blur is not possible, depth of field is not possible, engine heat waves are not possible, infact refractive effects of any sort are not possible, neither are bloom, HDR, volumetrics or arbitrary transparency. Only single pixel based shading effects are possible. We can't do skyboxes either or make the shadows hit mulitple ships.

AO is pretty pointless in space where the lighting is dominated by single point light sources. IF you want an approximation of it (to be honest good enough for most things) just take your model into a 3d rendering program and bake a radiosity lighting solution onto your textures, that's all AO is really simulating anyway.

[MAKA]

Hi

I’ve been watching this mod for awhile now and I want to tell you what a great job you have done to date.

A downed loaded the SVN client and had a go the mod and loved it.
I noticed that the whitestar is not yet completed, as it is my seconded favoured ship in the series I had to have a look at the scripting behind it and I made some changes for someone to have a look over.

I’m not much of a coder myself but I do enjoy doing it and I hope I’m not stepping on anyone’s toes by doing this, and if I am I’m sorry.

I changed:
• the speed
• secondary firing rate
• and angles of break point

These changers have made the ship a lot more powerful tho, so I hope they will fit into your plans for this mod.

This mod looks great and I hope work continues on it.

To view the changers
http://kollosche.on-ip.org/weatherstation/downloads/

The download may be slow as its located on my local network and I don’t have the fastest download speed.

Thanks
Mark

[Nathanius]

Thanks CnlPepper!

The Romulans are depending on you :P

[MAKA]

Hi all,

I’ve been watching this mod for awhile now and I want to tell you what a great job you have done to date.

I downed loaded the SVN client and had a go the mod and loved it.
I noticed that the whitestar is not yet completed, as it is my seconded favoured ship in the series I had to have a look at the scripting behind it and I made some changes for someone to have a look over.

I’m not much of a coder myself but I do enjoy doing it and I hope I’m not stepping on anyone’s toes by doing this, and if I am I’m sorry.

I changed:
• the speed
• secondary firing rate
• and angles of break point

These changers have made the ship a lot more powerful tho, so I hope they will fit into your plans for this mod.

This mod looks great and I hope work continues on it.

To view the changers
http://kollosche.on-ip.org/weatherstation/downloads/

The download may be slow as it’s located on my local network and I don’t have the fastest download speed.

Thanks
Mark

[yokozuna]

Is this mod in its current phase of development available for download? I know it`s not finished yet but a demo or something?

[TON_Viper]

Sure, just follow the link in my signature to our Moddb site. The download instructions can be found there.

[yokozuna]

Thanks. I don`t see any signature at all but I`ll check out at moddb.

[TON_Viper]

Yeah, it's this weird new version of the forum software. It'll display my signature when I post, but then remove it later on. Take a look higher up. The first post I make on each page will have the signature with the link.

[TON_Viper]

Update: In case you're still following the mod, I updated the Eagle Nebula background with stars and better lighting. Just update your SVN download to take a look.

It is planned to be included in the Star Trek mod too.

[maxdamage]

Whats up with the aweful theme?Miss the awesome HW one!Busy updating my version of the mod atm.Good to know about the background.Maybe a screenshot? Thanks!

[Ringleader]

Hey, I was wondering if it was possible that certain objects can be seen in front of objects they are behind.

[TON_Viper]

What are you referring to here? Ships? Effects?

----------

Whats up with the aweful theme?Miss the awesome HW one!

They updated the forum software to a new version, and I guess the existing themes weren't compatible with it.

[Ringleader]

Well, the object that's behind and should be seen in front would be a 2d sprite, which I suppose could also be an effect (it needs to be translucent), and the object that's in front and needs to be seen behind is a ship.

[Ringleader]

CNL, some old games, much older then HW2 (Like TES III: Morrowind) have HDR-like effects, in the sense that they have Gaussian blurring to simulate full HDR bloom. Also, to simulate depth of field view, they implement Gaussian blur to all distant objects. I believe this may also be possible in HW2, and despite them not being proper effects, I think it would still look better.

If objects can be drawn in front of objects that they are behind, then I think convincing volumetric-like effects as well as a whole host of modern effects could be made possible with just sprites, including Ambient Occlusion. I'd like some objects and effects to always have a horizontal lens flare (an object such as a star, or an effect such as an engine glow/engine burn), and I was wondering if all faces on a ship mesh above a certain luminosity could have the bar lens flare effect in varying degrees as a sprite rendered in front of the mesh.

http://www.battlegroundpc.com/wp-con...e-1024x640.jpg
(horizontal bar lens flare)

I could also show a diagram of what I mean if you'd like.

Also, stars are 2d sprites, so could they possibly be animated sprites? I was thinking I could get the stars to twinkle, so long as they wouldn't twinkle in unison.

[TON_Viper]

stars are 2d sprites, so could they possibly be animated sprites

Stars as such, no. They are defined as a point, or alternatively as a single sprite texture. However, stars defined in lua with their own lensflare effects can be scripted to just look like regular small stars with a twinkle. It would be a lot of work to individually define each star with a coordinate this way, but it is possible.

I'd like to point out though, that the reason that stars twinkle is that their light passes through the atmosphere. Stars as seen from space wouldn't twinkle.

[CnlPepper]

Ringleader, if it was easy to with the HW2 engine I'd have already done it. Anyway HW2 already includes bloom effects to simulate HDR effects. There is a full frame bloom effect that can be turned on in the level files. Its very coarse and unfortunately recent graphics drivers broke it for most users - using it makes the screen go totally white. Lens flares are already fully supported by the engine and you can bind them to any FX. You can bind any arbitrary effect to a ship with the event/madstate files.

[Nathanius]

Speaking of arbitrary effects... does anyone know why the cloak seems to not work anymore?

[CnlPepper]

Nathanius: I had a look at that and can't see why it is not working. I've had a good look through the shaders and performed a few experiments but I've not found why.

[TON_Viper]

I've noted in my tests with the ST:HW2 beta that if you look carefully, you can still tell if a ship is cloaked or not with the shaders. The lighting changes subtly, which becomes easier to see if you repeatedly turn cloaking on and off. Maybe that can give a clue to where the problem goes wrong.

It would be a lot easier if we knew exactly where the normal cloaking effect is defined in the files. Not only would that enable us to fix this problem, I hope, but it could probably also lead to custom cloaking effects later on.

[KeyBored]

Mmmm, Shadow cloaking?

[Nathanius]

TON_Viper that's a good point, time to go code hunting!

[Colonel]

Your instructions for installing the mod are MIA by the way, the following link is deaded
http://daedalus.f2s.com/HW2B5TC/install.txt

And Just as I want to play HW2 mods heh, conspiracy!

[TON_Viper]

Yeah, thanks for mentioning it. I just haven't gotten around to replacing them yet. I really should get that done.

Here, at least, is the link to the SVN repository: https://b5wwe.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/b5wwe/trunk

If you have TortoiseSVN installed, you can use that link to download it.