[Fluff] Best 40k Books I.

[eleveninches]

I'd actually like to see loken escape with garro (he was the main charachter in horus rising and false gods, imo). Then he can fight for the emperor on terra. I remember the original story of the horus heresy (the "13th of secundus" one) had a lunar wolf captain that pledged his loyalty to the emperor. The emperor reminded him that the lunar wolves no longer exists, and the captain said that he no longer consideres himself a son of horus, and wants to fight and die for the emperor. It does name the company number he comes from, but it would be cool if this turns out to be loken.

And I know that most of the charachters from false gods and horus rising definately DO turn to chaos (erebus, abaddon, maloghurst, torgeddon etc...)
I think that torgeddon's betrayal of loken will be a big event, as he is the one that loken seems to confide in the most (especially in false gods).

[Cherub]

You dont know if Loken even remains loyal eleveninches so why presume that he will be betrayed? Oh and where is there evidence of torgeddon turning to Chaos he told Abaddon and little horus to piss off when asked to join them and he isnt included in Horus new war council suggesting that he is out of favour with the new Horus?

[eleveninches]

he is shown to have turned to chaso in the horus heresy artbooks

[Cherub]

HH artbooks aint true fluff its just the sabretooth perspective of the event as far as i believe, but i guess the bl books will relate to them. Shame Torgeddon was great.

[Evan_gelion]

I'm a little baffled why people would dislike Abnett but love Counter, because frankly I found just about every Ben Counter book unreadable. I'm all for 40K fluff as much as the next guy, but the fact that I can't name a single character from his Grey Knight or Daemonworld book is fairly telling sign for me. (I haven't read Ravenor in a while, but I can at least give you the name of all of the important ones, if not most of them).

Anyway, mark me down for Sandy Mitchell's Ciaphas Cain novels, with the exception of Caves of Ice, which I think was meh. Abnett's usually really spot on. Some of the times he goes a little too movie-esque stylized for my tastes but he creates some dynamic characters and can write a story that I'm interested in. Personally, I avoid anything with 'Counter' on it like the plague, because the two I read left a bad taste in my mouth.

[CRasterImage]

Abnett is a good writer.
Most people here flock to his books.
His only vocal detractor here, is Andkat.

[Andkat]

I denounce most of his Gaunt's Ghosts books, generally due to fatal fluff violations, but I'm hardly an utter opponent of his works. Indeed, Eisenhorn is my favorite Black Library series to date, and I was entertained by both Ravenor and Horus Rising immensely (not to mention the initial Gaunt's Ghosts book, which is probably the best of that entire series).

[Hodgeh MkII]

'Ravenor Returned' is far better than 'Ravenor'.

SO much more is revealed and clarified, and the ending is head and shoulders above the first book's.

[SteveO86]

After I read the 2 Ravenor books I thought about them as one single book ( similiar to Eisenhorn omnibus ) and besides, Most likely after the third Ravenor book ( Rouge ) They will probably release a omnibus with all three Ravenor books and thus all 3 books will be like peanut butter and jelly. I got the impression Abnett is just trying to tell one long story as he did with Eisenhorn ( granted they didn't really end in major cliff hangers compared to Ravenor ).

[Commander Ozae]

SPOILERS ALERT: the one thing i really hated with Ravenor Returned is that they potentially killed off Eisenhorn. I always liked the idea that he just vanished and is somewhere working to protect the Imperium. Now i know the possibility is still there that he is alive but Abnett seems to want to make his appearing as minimal as possible.

[Evan_gelion]

Abnett says he'll be making an appearance in the next Ravenenor book, so I'm fairly certain that he's not as dead as they think.

[Sol Invictus]

Just finished Galaxy in Flames. Not bad but I think the novelty of this different view of the 40K universe that made the first book refreshing is starting to wear a little thin.
I also still have my doubts about the overall wisdom of taking these "mythical" events and nailing them down in detail.

[Sparkdrummer]

Alright, so I'm a new 40k fan, and I've been confused as I've been happily looking around the internet looking for 40k setting and story background sources, only to find that lots of people have their own views on the subject of fluff. I read on the wikipedia entry for 40k about the concept of "cannon" for fiction. They said that, generally, newer works superceded older ones as fluff/cannon.

So, first, I was wondering what your opinions are about what works or parts of works are and aren't accepted as fluff/cannon. What's the criteria for that, anyway? Second, I recently finished False Gods and I see a lot of people who have a problem with the Horus Heresy series--"fluff violations," or something? I thought False Gods was ok, and I really liked Horus Rising. I thought Horus changed too rapidly, though. You start the second book and he's already having serious issues. Parts of his change in portrayal from the first book to the second were disappointing to me, too. And then there was the LW/SoH color change from white to green. I don't know if that's documented elsewhere, but I thought it sucked. ANYWAY

So, what were those "fluff violations," anyway? I'd love to know. Also, what are some of the best/most established 40k books? I've got a lot of time to read lately, but the bookstores around here don't have much Warhammer stuff. I guess I'll have to order online, so I'm looking for suggestions.

Thanks.

[RoNsTaR]

For diggin' deeper into the fluff I might recommend you

http://www.lexicanum.org



Books:
Eisenhorn
Ultramarines Omnibus
Ravenor & Ravenor Returned
The DoW-Series (except the 1st book )
Angels of Darkness
The whole Ciaphas Cain - Series
Soul Drinker Series

...oh and there are so much more.., well and about the unfluffy things in books.., it's just a point of view. These are Tales from a timescale of 10.000 years, it's natural that there are some errors

[Andkat]

I mentioned a couple of probelms with False Gods a couple of pages back, but overall the HH series appears to be rather solid fluffwise.

Horus's corruption was pretty much the spontaneous intercession of the Chaos Gods and the culmination of decades of plotting. His fall was monstrous and utter.

[Shoota Fodder]

Just finished Galaxy in Flames. Not bad but I think the novelty of this different view of the 40K universe that made the first book refreshing is starting to wear a little thin.
I also still have my doubts about the overall wisdom of taking these "mythical" events and nailing them down in detail.

Is galaxy in flames out in the USA already! or did you just get it at games day!(I wish I

got Tickets for that)

Personnaly I love the Ciaphas Cain Novels and i can't wat for the next one.

What could be better than a cowerdly(SP) Commissar!

[Robatty]

Guys i have just received the Eisenhorn omnibus on listening to alot of you guys say it was great, i read the first book in 2 days and have started the second i find them absolutly excellent, every little detail making you feel like you are right there and can see and feel everything. I am so glad i have purchased these books and to anyone who is looking for a good first read i would highly recommended the Eisenhorn collection.
I'm just waiting for my order of the smurfs omnibus to come now and i'll be set for about 2 weeks lol

EDIT:Ok i have just ordered the Ravenor and ravenor returned as well as the whole gaunts ghost series, man i'm gonna be busy reading

[Ermac]

Man I aM SO HAPPY right now! i just checked the black library websites and saw what looks to be a 5th Space Wolf book called Sons of Fenris!

[Inmate4502]

I got Horus Rising, False Gods and Grey Knights today. Ordered them a while ago after reading this thread, so I should have some good reading for the next week or so

[Ermac]

I just love Storm of Iron.

Spoiler

My favorite part is when Honsou is doing recon and the guy with the robotic leg gets stuck in the mud. Then when he trys to get his leg free he makes a loud noise alerting the entire imp garrison. Then honsou rips his leg off and they all run away to camp in a hasil of gunfire in one of those Forest Gump style Moments.

[Grimjaw]

I know this is buried deepd within the thread, and these books undoubtedly have been mentioned... But Eisenhorn Trilogy and the Tanith First and Only series are some of the best books out there. Horus Heresy, also by the same author Dan Abnett, is supposed to be pretty good as well.

[ZeronX]

Well, I just finished the book "Nightbringer" as part of "The Ultramines Omnibus" by Graham McNeil which contains "Nightbringer," "Warriors of Ultramar," and "Dead Sky Black Sun," and a special short story about Uriel Ventris at the very start!

I have the say that "Nightbringer" was great! Although the battle with the nightbringer was... disappointing. I've started reading "Warriors of Ultramar" but it doesn't look to be as good...

I'm also starting "False Gods" by Graham McNeill!

[ZimZum]

Man, I've seriously got to get me some new 40K books. I own the Eisenhorn Trilogy, Farseer, Nightbringer, Storm of Iron and the first few Gaunts Ghosts novels. I think I'll set my sights on the Horus Heresy series. I don't think I've asked this before - did Farseer ever get a sequel? Or was it a one-off?

[ZeronX]

Woops, i got mixed up with False Gods and Horus Rising! I thought that False Gods was the first book so I read one chapter before realizing!

Ah well, I just finished two chapters of Horus Rising... it's a-okay so far

[Hodgeh MkII]

Recently completed the 'The Saint' story arc in 'Gaunt's Ghosts' with 'Sabbat Martyr'.

The ending. WTF:

Spoiler

Corbec getting killed by Cuu.... at least Larkin wasted Cuu, but it was a rather lame death sequence. Gaunt at least got to witness Cuu's true history, though.

[panzerd18]

Can anyone tell me if the graphic artbooks of 'The Horus Heresy' by Alan Merrett are any good?

[eleveninches]

In a word...YES! I have vols 2,3,and 4.


Can someone please post some spoilers about galaxy in flames. I'm ordering it on friday, so should have it by next tuesday.

[TANCRED]

Galaxy in Flames.

the first betrayal by Horus begins with the annihilation of the loyalists within the traitor legions, i.e. Lunar Wolves, Emp Children, World Eaters. It is the conclusion, I think, of the Lunar Wolves story (their point of view in the heresy), involving Loken, Torgaddon, and the Mournival. Some new faces are introduced...Garro for instance. I wonder if we will see some different Legions in the next book...

The Horus Heresy artbooks are pretty sweet. There are a few dodgy pics, but on the whole, the standard is great. Some of the best pics are by Paul Dainton, Alex Boyd, Karl Kopinsky, Adrian Smith, Sam Wood, and John Blanche.
The most recent edition has some outstanding Primarch pieces by Alex Boyd.

[Inquisitor Lord]

The Eisenhorn trilogy....But The Ciaphas Cain novels take a hard second.

[Lothar777]

I'm reading the Ultramarine's and have finished NightBringer and Warriors of Ultramar. NB was great plotwise but lacked in necrons and action a bit, WoUM was jamed pack of action byt had none of the intrique from the first. I'm almost done with Dead Sky Black Sun and it is doing a damn good job of balancing the characters with the action.

Just like Uriel, Gram is getting better at his job with each novel. I bet the next Ultramarines novel will be the best yet.

[tubby131313]

This may be a dumb question, but what happened to William King? Has he quit writing for GW? I know he has given up the Gotrek & Felix series, and I have been told that the next SW book will be written by a different author.

[SteveO86]

Lothar777 Just a quick note you may want to read Storm of Iron before you read Dead Sky Black Sun since the 2 novels both intertwine and I read the whole Ultramrines book before I read Storm of Iron. If you read Storm of Iron before Dead Sky Black Sun it alot more depth to the book and Storm of Iron is an amazing book.

[Lothar777]

Yeah I heard Storm of Iron is connected to DSBS but I figured I could go back and read it. Some of the events from SoI are refferenced in the Chapter with Uriel talking to the renegades so I can kind of piece it together. I really want to finish Ultramarines to start reading Horus Rising.

[SteveO86]

Yea I understand how you feel I had to finish Ultramarines also, so I won't try to persuade you but Storm of Iron is an awesome book.

On another topic, has anyone read Rouge Star?? If so I would really like to know what you guys thought about it. I didn't really think it was that good almost dissappointing. The ending just ended leaving you asking more questions then the end of Ravenor (well almost). There just wasn't alot of action (Most of the action was at the end of book), the charactors weren't too bad but they didn't "grow" or anything, and there were many questions that needed to be answered lol (yes I know I mentioned that twice). The book wasn't outright terrible it was interesting to see things from the Rouge Trader perspective unlike other novels like Eisenhorn/Ravenor that just deal with Rouge Traders as means of transport. But the book could have been ALOT better.

So after reading that book I thought I would treat myself to the blood series ( A whole wopping 2 books lol ) and I am hoping they will provide more enjoyment then Rogue Star

[Evistro]

i havnt read a LOT of the books so i would have to say Angels of Darkness was pretty good. really shined a lot of light on the dark angels.

[panzerd18]

What does someone mean when they say fluff is cannon?

Like "cannon fluff"?

[SteveO86]

Well I suppose I shoulda help my tongue for a few more days it seems they actually are releasing an sequel to Rouge Star ( I suppose I never should have doubted it since so questions were left unanswered lol). As long as its got more action then the first it should be alot better lol.

[Lothar777]

When fluff is canon it means it is official fact within the storyline. Like the highest level of Starwars canon is anything in the movies. So if you read some fan fiction that has some fluff mixed in its probably not considered canon.

[SmilingJak]

Aye, and I dearly wish to be able to get my hands on the Graphic version of the Horus Heresy books, but they cost so very much. Would anyone happen to have a copy and tell me if it is worth me spending that sort of cash on a book like that?

[Stealthlazer]

Am I the only one who didn't like False Gods? I loved Horus Rising, I felt it had a nice build up effect (considering the length of Abnett's series' not suprising) Then in the space of a few chapters Horus turns into an evil bastard. One vision and he's suddenly all for Chaos, bringing down his beloved father and ignoring every warning he's got.

[Cornbread]

Am I the only one who didn't like False Gods? I loved Horus Rising, I felt it had a nice build up effect (considering the length of Abnett's series' not suprising) Then in the space of a few chapters Horus turns into an evil bastard. One vision and he's suddenly all for Chaos, bringing down his beloved father and ignoring every warning he's got.

Yeah, I've noticed that in a lot of Abnett's work. He builds up, and up, and up, then when you finally get to the climax, it's a few pages if that, as if he ran out of room to make it as good as he wanted to be and still have room for an ending (I especially noticed it at the end of the Eisenhorn trilogy and the most recent book of his that I finished, Sabbat Martyr). Looking back on most of the Gaunt series, though, I found that most of them adhere to a specific number of pages (like 214 for the first three or four), so someone must have kept him at a limit or something. I generally like his work, though--I plowed through most of the G'sGs series in like three months (quite a feat for me).

[TwistedDarkness]

I think that Black library wants to keep it's stories at like, 250-300 pages or less.

[HorusHeresy]

I noticed that, theres too much ommited in all 3 of then. Horus Rise was done over like 2 campaigns?! His fall over like 50 pages and The drop site massacre was only half a book for like 3 months of siege work

All 3 books have skipped a shitload. Scuse the french

[eleveninches]

I thought that the drop site massacre referred to istvaan V, which is still to come

[Shoota Fodder]

The drop site massacre hasn't happned yet in the HH books. So far i would rate them like this by the way they were writen.

1. Horus Rising
2. False Gods
3. Galaxy in Flames

And by storyline-

Galaxy in Flames
False Gods
Horus Rising

And From Best To Worst-

False Gods
Horus Rising
Galaxy in Flames

[Jukebox Joe]

Just getting back into 40K, and haven't read that many novels as yet, but so far I've read

Dawn of War: Ascension
Warrior Brood
Ultramarines Omnibus - My favorites so far.
Nightbringer - The Dark Eldar are ace, and the climax with Necrons and The Nightbringer is ace.
Warriors of Ultramar - Got a fair way into it, maybe about half way. Ace book, love Tyranids

Planning on getting Caves of Ice next. I love Necrons

[teh monkeys]

Aye, Caves of Ice is a great read. It's a nice change from all the overly dark and gloomy atmosphere most 40k books have.

[Andkat]

Glorious Day! My bloody Galaxy in Flames preorder copy from Amazon finally arrived (several weeks after the U.S. release, to all appearances...)! I've also finished the last of Waltari's magnificient and eternally compelling volumes of historical fiction, rendering the moment most opportune to commence the utilization of the third tome of the novelised Horus Heresy!

I look forward to giving an opinion soon. And to ordering Flight of the Eisenstein and Ravenor Rogue, both of which have preorder openings and covers present on Amazon, and, presumabley, other such websites.

[Takashi_Kurita]

Well, I've read alot of 40k books, and I pesonally have to say that Dan Abnett's stuff, all of it, is the only thing good that it has to offer.

In his books, people are actually people, they've got entire lives, habits, lovers, political tensions, etc. I feel like I'm getting an entire story, and the characters are actually somewhat dynamic. Plus, the tale of the doomed Ghosts is just very striking to me.

Wheras pretty much everything else I've read from the Black Library was nothing but a violent shoot/hack fest with one-demensional characters and simplistic morality, not to mention horrifically grotesque images. There were times reading Counter's battle scenes where I felt like I was just reading a transcript of an actual 40k tabletop game being played out.

I guess it's all a matter of taste. If you want the 40k-Equivalent of Quake 4, then by all means, read Counter, Goto, and so on. If you want something a little slower-paced but more well-rounded, I think Abnett has the crown uncontested.

[Lothar777]

No questioning Dan's prowess but have you been able to read Grahm McNeil's books on the Ultramarines and the Iron Warriors? Just want your take on them.