[SS] Horus Heresy MP| Jan.11: restarting HHMP; NO VISUALS! | (old PA2 DC build in OP)

[ProfessorGenius]

Originally posted by Lleman.
We also considered ditching making it for DoW and hopping to DoWII

If that is true, why are you making structures? DOW II only needs one, maybe three by hq, turrets and mines. Or is it perhaps you might have ditched them too?

[Lleman]

Okay, haha, we've had fun etc, now quit the useless bumping and let it lie, okay guys? (Ed, shame on you...)

That is not dead which can eternal lie, yet with stranger aeons, even Death may die.

@professorgenius (whose post i had not seen while writing this one): did i say anything concerning the implementation in DoWII?

[ProfessorGenius]

@Lleman: No you said considering it. If you do consider it, the buildings you create will be history. The implementation to DOWII and ditching DOW I in my humble opinion is not a good idea.

[Lleman]

[veneer of civility]Petty arguing on words aside, (which i truly hate), you'd be amazed at how many things we've thought about and through before your providing this advice, really...[/veneer of civility]
Now, let's leave HHMP2 to a totally hypothetical DoWII thread and keep things focused on this here mod. Thanks.

[ProfessorGenius]

You could just say that The Horus Heresy mod for DOWI will not be ditched. That's all I like to hear, thank you.

Keep up the good work.

[Lleman]

Things are getting interesting again. Read in this that the HHMP lads are scratching heads, doodling, discussing mods anew and that good things are progressively coming out of this.
To make things short, we're planning on wiping a good deal of the PA2 mechanics to allow for a simplification (make it easier, not dumb it down) of the whole structures/addons/troops combo we formerly had implemented.
In practice, this means a good few strucs are going to disappear at the benefit of management fluidity and some logical merging of functions will naturally occur between some others. This comes especially handy when thinking about our good old workhorse, namely the armour marks implementation.

In the words of Kresjah: "More focus on the battle and on the front.", and to quote the great sage again: "Soon enough, you're going to have DoW2 non-base haters on your doorstep." to which i can but reply that we sit in the middle, eliciting a "Being shot at by both non-base haters, and base-haters? :P"
This should let you make a mental picture of things to come.
Cheers!

[Whiteshield]

A quick question, have the tiny bolters been resized?... It seemed awkward in the previous mod version for them to be using bolters a little larger than bolt pistols. Also, will the textures have specularity?

[Lleman]

First of all, as my post explicitly told, we're currently dealing with code and game mechanics, without which primordial function whatever graphic fancy will mean nothing. Embellishments and visual accuracy are almost not a concern of ours as things presently go, albeit for redesigning structures which, with a honest hindsight, look certainly nice but damn daft on a moving battlefield where things have to be rapidly assembled/dismantled.

Now, as to the 'tiny bolters' issue, because i don't like to leave matters hanging: they are the same length as the vDoW ones. Yes, trust me, i've scaled them accordingly to the vDoW bolters and in proportion with the original TT ones. However, the way the stock has been placed make them sit higher on the arm than the 'later' pattern and gives a false impression of a shorter body. The only element that could once see some change is where we'll place the stock, so that the sickle magazine doesn't prevent correct positioning of the left hand. Or not.

[Whiteshield]

Thanks for the reply, but I don't read the ENTIRE thread nor monitor it everyday, so I can't possibly know what goes on with the mod all the time. And hope you finish it without much bugs along the way

[Kresjah]

Whiteshield: Ok, so the timeline goes something like this:
Post #706: Lleman informs that mod is coming to life again, and gives some light information on the game mechanic and code changes that will occur after a recent brainstorming session.
Post #707: You ask two questions about graphics; regarding tiny bolters and specularity.
Post #708: Your two questions are replied. As part of this you're also told that for the time being code is the primary concern and visuals are not, as well as why.
Post #709: You complain as if someone has asked you to read the "ENTIRE" thread, or expected you to monitor it everyday, which is something no one has done.

All that was required to read to get the latest status in this case was two posts. In general though, I'd consider it common courtesy for someone to have a look at the opening post, and skim through the last page and at least read the latest post. Is that really too much to ask?

All: But to reiterate and reinforce what Lleman said:
At the moment the main focus is game mechanics, and derived from that, code. We want a game that's fun to play first and foremost, and as an added (biiig) bonus looks great. If it looks great but is dead boring, then it is still dead boring. Better a hand on the mouse and one of the keyboard while looking at HHMP, than one being busy with other stuff.

I do really like the structures that were initially created for HHMP. However, Lleman is right; they are static structures I'd rather expect seeing in a cityscape or permanent factory zone. In a battlefield that changes quickly requirements are different, and I'd expect structures that were made for the purpose of getting stuff to the front and getting it there quickly, not something that houses a big lunch room with TV showing Dr. Phil. Thus, sadly (but rightly so) structures were in need of a redesign.

Whilst we have had many good concepts for game mechanics, a fair few of them are implemented in ways that are counter-intuitive and at times even clumsy. One of the biggest reasons for this were that we hadn't found ways around certain limitations then, or that we were set on certain limiting principles that in hindsight might have been less than stellar choices.

So, combine structures that don't quite fit and a bit too complex game mechanics, and you get an awfully good excuse to redesign structures both with visuals and game mechanics in mind; a full overhaul of it. Brainstorming ensued first and foremost with game mechanics in minds (as visual conception would naturally base around what a structures use is), and I think the results we got were quite good. It changes a fair lot of things, makes it easier for the user and more streamlined, yet at the same time we used mostly the same justification, or perhaps I should say the same basic foundations for our new game mechanic concepts. In other words, a bit like a reimagining.

[Whiteshield]

@Kresjah - Well the first post changes sometimes, sometimes it doesn't, not too much to ask, but not really much to check. Also I did not "complain" I'm just emphasizing that I do not read the ENTIRE thread.

[Kresjah]

Ok, completely serious moment here; Yes, it changes occasionally, as is customary for this place and a whole lot of other places where things are (and aren't) developed; exactly why I say I'd expect it to be common courtesy to at least read the first post before you jump into a thread to reply. It was never asked nor implied that you should read the entire thread, and the latest mod status was in the post right before yours, so if it wasn't as a complaint why the need to emphasize it in the first place?

[Lleman]

the latest mod status was in the post right before yours

I think that closes it. It wasn't an undergoing discussion, it was a 'one-shot' piece of news; no further discussion about it needed, the OOT bumpings have been enough.

[Malcador123]

Well I'm glad the structures are going through a redesign. I've always thought that most of the structures, in mods and vanilla DoW look way to permenant for being dropped from orbit to allow a landing place for troops. Other than the space marine vehicle landing pad everything else felt very "Permenant basey." Now I don't know if this counts as game mechanics or not and if it doesn't then I apologize, but recently forgeworld ahs released a series of older bolter marks and I was wondering if you were going to implement anything like that along with the different armor marks? Seeing as each one had certain advantages and disadvantages just like the armor marks. Btw glad this mod is showing some progress again, always been a fan of the Heresy.

[Lleman]

Bolters in the mod are all MkI or II and are just visuals, they were already in the old PA2 build. They don't provide any effect as to the game mechanics/damage values/armour penetration, just like the FW ones don't use special rules. Pretty much like all the other weapons which variants are used in the 40K era. They fire, they kill. Sufficient enough.

[Whiteshield]

How about maximum squad cap? Also suggestion: The Astartes are still Legion strength, so they should have more squads, BUT they wear outdated power armour, so a decrease in health would balance it out.

[Lleman]

Re. squad cap: the aim isn't to have a plethora of squads running amok in the maps, so we'll keep to something around the vDoW window. We're trying to emulate the feel of company-strong elements from the Heresy era, not to play Apocalypse games in 30K-settings.

Re. armour marks: (you should read the thread, really :P ; there's more around post#380 for example) In short: marks of power armour are all covered, with variable types and factors to implement their durability/shielding/regenerative capacity etc., as well as other pros/cons inherent to their fabrication.

These points are amongst the unchanging ones.


Late edit: Just for the record... we already have an ingame 'outdated' mark of armour that has a triggered decrease in health, nay, degen even to 'balance it out'... You should really try it.

[methodicaltruth]

where is a link to download this mod? -> will it work and add/change things in the campaign if i only wanna play the single playeR?

[Lleman]

Referring you to the thread's title:

[SS] Horus Heresy MP| Jan.11: restarting HHMP; NO VISUALS! | (old PA2 DC build in OP)

Do note that, as it says in the opening post, it's obsolete and only a very WIP build. Some search/browse would also tell you that we're dealing in multiplayer (as in skirmish games), NOT in SP/campaign.

[Lord Chiasson]

Hello there glad to see you all back at this mod again. I would be willing to help I have no knowledge of coding and the such but I can learn just point me in the right direction Ill get what I need and all, of course if that's ok with you all . I have been learning a few things about modding for DoW II(still in the process).

[Gorb]

The last post in this thread was in February, Lord Chiasson. While I appreciate the offer of help, such offers are best made by Private Message

[Lleman]

@Lord Chiasson: Thanks for the attention. I'm sure we'd be willing to resume this mod some time but for the time being we're too out of it (hell, what do these files do already? :P) to suddenly start working again on furthering the rebuilt mod and bringing other improvements on it otherwise than by very small touches.
This said, however, i will shamelessly plug another mod of our doing which would need help in the texturing department, namely the Death Korps one, as mentioned in this thread.



Gorb, while i undoubtedly appreciate the concern of a mod to keep things in order, i doubt this was a particularly appropriate response; i find it best anyone offering help does so in this thread (as i would for any other of our mods) so that more than one mod-team member sees it and reacts accordingly, be it towards the prospective helper or towards the other team mates.

[Xaitan]

Amazing idea for a mod Lleman, I really love the concept and the old school models are just nostalgically pleasant. Hope it goes far, and I hope the Primarchs will come into play!

[cryoeclipse]

is this mod dead because from what i hear no work is being done on it so can you please submit what you have completed so far ?

[Lleman]

Can't you hear the voices too?

And nope.

Look at it this way: this is our Frankenstein-grade aborted creature, partly born once in great cries of anguish, pain and despair and yet with an immense feeling of pleasure not unlike She-Who-Thirst, to the point that looking at all these files sealed in otherwise forbidden folders causes in us a rising feeling of nausea; and yet, we cannot but feel a certain perverse fondness for it and feel the pseudo-parental obligation to travel the dark corners of our HDDs to cajole and play with these very same files we abhor most of the time.
Or as Pocktio would have it put, this is our gimp, we will continue abusing it as long as it has any amusement left in it.


Also hies, welcome to the forums. As my old Ma' tells me, a little politeness goes a long way.

[cryoeclipse]

Two things

A: Never start what you cannot complete
B: There isnt even that much to do just team color MKIV MKV MKVI and MKVII and the weapons.

People like me are still waiting for this mod and it was never even complete also i do not understand your riddles and in my prospective its shear laziness that stops completion of this mod it had so much potential its just a shame it was never complete.
sorry for the rant but...
-cryoeclipse

[Gorb]

Two things

A: Never start what you cannot complete
B: There isnt even that much to do just team color MKIV MKV MKVI and MKVII and the weapons.

People like me are still waiting for this mod and it was never even complete also i do not understand your riddles and in my prospective its shear laziness that stops completion of this mod it had so much potential its just a shame it was never complete.
sorry for the rant but...
-cryoeclipse

Two things.

1. The forum rules explicitly forbid asking for updates.
2. Behaving like you are doing is rude to the people whom originally created this mod.

Mods break down for a lot of reasons. Lack of available time (bear in mind that it takes up peoples' free time, people that may have jobs and whatnot), family emergencies, breakdowns in communication, etc.

If people never started what they could not complete, the world would be a far poorer place. Plenty of great works have spanned more than one human lifetime.

Regardless, welcome to the forums but please note your behaviour in future. And no, sticking a "I'm sorry" on the end doesn't make your attitude any more excusable.

Locking this thread due to it's dead status, I'm sure Lleman or one of the other team members can find me in the event that they wish this thread unlocked!

EDIT: from the mod team:

To anyone who thinks this mod needs 'just' a little colouring of armour, we were barely half-way through implementing ideas through code, not even mentioning the remaining modelling, complete coherent texturing, animating and OE'ing to say the least. Had we found any reliable people to tackle these tasks instead of those ceaselessly whining to complete our own abilities, this would have seen the light as a close-to-fully-playable beta ages ago.